Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by stonedstooge

Could a sample even be spiked in some way?

thats kind of why the chain of custody issue is a really big deal. When the chain of custody in a crime scene or testing situation is broken, the defendent or player, even if they are guilty as hell, immediately brings up the spectre of the tainted sample. They don't even have to argue that it was done on purpose, just that no one knows what the hell may have been done to that sample over those few hours.

In this case, assuming the tweets are true, another couple days in the test collector's fridge (so we're not even talking about a guy not authorized to have possession of it) shouldn't be enough by itself, but coupled with an "insanely high" reading, its a problem.

[stonedstooge]

Originally Posted by alnorth

thats kind of why the chain of custody issue is a really big deal. When the chain of custody in a crime scene or testing situation is broken, the defendent or player, even if they are guilty as hell, immediately brings up the spectre of the tainted sample. They don't even have to argue that it was done on purpose, just that no one knows what the hell may have been done to that sample over those few hours.

In this case, assuming the tweets are true, another couple days in the test collector's fridge (so we're not even talking about a guy not authorized to have possession of it) shouldn't be enough by itself, but coupled with an "insanely high" reading, its a problem.

Heck I could probably see it clearer a player spiking his own urine to mask his use then a company hired to collect the samples destroying their own business(unless the price was right). Guess you could go as far as some 3rd party altering the sample while in the custody of the collector. But that would be James Bond kind of legend

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by stonedstooge

Heck I could probably see it clearer a player spiking his own urine to mask his use then a company hired to collect the samples destroying their own business(unless the price was right). Guess you could go as far as some 3rd party altering the sample while in the custody of the collector. But that would be James Bond kind of legend

Ha, that would be a bit more difficult than simply using masking agents or undetectable PEDs (which most athletes who use PEDs do).

[WoodDraw]

Also, the appeals panel seems like a joke. You know day one how each person will vote, minus the independent arbitrator. I understand these things must be collectively bargained, but that's just stupid.

[WoodDraw]

Braun's initial T/E ratio was more than 20:1. Sources previously confirmed synthetic testosterone in his system. A source says MLB is livid and is considering options and other comment.

The source told ESPN the seals were totally intact and testing never reflected any degradation of the sample. Based on the World Anti-Doping Agency code, this is exactly what would have been expected to happen, and the collector took the proper action, the source said.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/76...ame-suspension

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by WoodDraw

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/76...ame-suspension

MLB sources are certainly talking now.

[alnorth]

The stories that are out today are saying that Braun's side is arguing that a 20/1 TE ratio was impossibly high.

To say that the result was "impossibly high" is not true, and all those stories about how he tested higher than anyone else in the history of that test is wrong, if the result really was 20/1. (unless they were only talking about MLB players, it could have been the highest MLB result in history)

From what I've read, 20/1 is definitely on the high side of a normal failure range, its rare to get a result that high, and its pretty much impossible if you are not taking anything. However, there were at least two results in US sports history with a result that was not just higher, but FAR higher than that.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by alnorth

The stories that are out today are saying that Braun's side is arguing that a 20/1 TE ratio was impossibly high.

To say that the result was "impossibly high" is not true, and all those stories about how he tested higher than anyone else in the history of that test is wrong, if the result really was 20/1. (unless they were only talking about MLB players, it could have been the highest MLB result in history).

Not really a surprise that the Braun camp tried to influence the media by stretching the truth or saying something that wasn't true. That's the way this works and it happens with every high-profile athlete that has ever tested positive for anything.

I now think Braun was probably dirty.

It is possible that he was clean, in that every test has a positive failure rate, and if he was one of those 1 in a million people or 10 million people or whatever the odds are for that test to get false positives on both samples, then it sucks for him and he's the unluckiest man in all of sports (cancelled out by luck yesterday), but we have to accept a test with a very, very low false positive rate, especially with 2 samples. Someone somewhere someday probably in some olympic sport no one cares about will probably get screwed, but I really doubt that theoretical lottery-winner was Braun.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to explain. The most reasonable explanation for his positive test is that he took something to trigger it. I never understood why some were giving him the benefit of the doubt that they didn't give to so many others.

[BigCatDaddy]

From what I know that 3rd party arbitrator was a moran. They found synthetic test in his 2nd sample and there are all kinds of drugs that will reduce estrogen while taking testosterone. Using a TE ratio to undermine the results is laughable and I see why the MLB is irate.

I'd be interested to know what his total T level was.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

From what I know that 3rd party arbitrator was a moran. They found synthetic test in his 2nd sample and there are all kinds of drugs that will reduce estrogen while taking testosterone. Using a TE ratio to undermine the results is laughable and I see why the MLB is irate.

I'd be interested to know what his total T level was.

Yup. Truth is, that's all you really need to look at. Just establish a baseline that your total T levels can't exceed X amount. If they do, have them take a more advanced screening to see if that is just normal for that person. There are some dudes walking around with very high levels of test, naturally. However if you're rocking out 1800-1900 for total T you're using something.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Yup. Truth is, that's all you really need to look at. Just establish a baseline that your total T levels can't exceed X amount. If they do, have them take a more advanced screening to see if that is just normal for that person. There are some dudes walking around with very high levels of test, naturally. However if you're rocking out 1800-1900 for total T you're using something.

I don't know this is physiologically possible, but I know a guy that was getting Dr prescribed test cyp and taking 300-400mg per week and was still testing at like 350-400. They had no explanation of where the hell it was going.

[vailpass]

Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges.
Love it.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges.
Love it.

It will interesting to see his 2012 numbers.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

It will interesting to see his 2012 numbers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...raunry02.shtml

I don't see anything unusual about his 2011 numbers. Maybe someone sees something I'm missing?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by vailpass

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...raunry02.shtml

I don't see anything unusual about his 2011 numbers. Maybe someone sees something I'm missing?

I'm just saying now that he was basically busted for cheating if will be interesting to see if his numbers will decline or was the test taken sometime other then after the 11 season?