Other Sports Johnny Damon Hall of Famer?? - Page 2

Deberg_1990 · 11-03-2009, 07:15 AM

Discuss Planeteers....

http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1582

All of which is just a long introduction to the question: is Johnny Damon a Hall of Famer?

He's sitting at 2,425 hits, so four more seasons and -- assuming the Yankees win one of the next three -- he'll have 3,000 hits along with (at least) two championship rings. Pretty good case, no?

He has scored more than 100 runs 10 times in his career. He will probably finish his career in the top 20 all-time, and perhaps even top 10 in runs scored.

It's a better career than you might think off hand, and in the end, his Hall candidacy probably depends more upon how closely voters draw their circle than anything.

For me, he falls just outside, as one of the really good players whose exclusion from the Hall makes the honor of being inducted even more special.

There are just too many holes in the argument. He's a top-of-the-order guy who strikes out more than he walks, is a career .288 hitter and never finished in the top 10 in on-base percentage (his career high was .382 in his last season with the Royals in 2000).

He is a corner outfielder with a legendarily bad arm who's led the league in something just three times -- runs (136) and steals (46) in 2000, and triples (11) in 2002. He's made just two All-Star teams, and never finished higher than 13th in MVP voting.

More than any of that, he's never been the best player at his position, or on his team. On Baseball Reference's similarity score, Lou Brock is the only Hall of Famer among the 10 listed with Damon (though Pete Rose is one of the others).

Anyway, the point here is not to bash a really good player the day after giving us a really great moment.

The point here is to solicit the thoughts of you fine readers while I prepare to jog off some of the cheesesteak from yesterday.

The Keltner List is a good tool to use in making judgments.

BigChiefFan · 11-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Makes me sick how many good players we let go, only to end up with crumbier players.

Johnny Damon
Jermaine Dye
Carlos Beltran
and on and on...

Spend some money, Glass.

BigCatDaddy · 11-03-2009, 09:05 AM

Just think of how many all-star games he would have played in as a Royal, since we have to send somebody.

CoMoChief · 11-03-2009, 09:09 AM

Damon, Dye, Beltran, Ibanez, Affeldt, Ramirez, DelaRosa

Drafting Luke "More MLB ready" Hochevar over "Soon-to-be 2-time Cy Young Winner" Tim Lincecum

Drafting Alex "bust" Gordon over Evan Longoria

Imagine if Berroa panned out after his rookie of the year season. Man did he tank.

1. LF Damon
2. CF Beltran
3. 3B Longoria
4. RF Dye
5. DH Butler
6. 1B Ibanez
7. SS Berroa
8. 2B Callaspo
9. C anyone but Buck

That 1-6 order is pretty sick considering Butler doesn't do his typical "wait til late summer/early fall to produce" act.

Pitching
Greinke
Lincecum
Meche
DeLaRosa
"some free agent"

Bullpen
Affeldt
Ramirez
Soria

This team would ****ing whoop the shit out of our division.

Thanks Glass!!!

**HemiEd** · 11-03-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

Damon has been a helluva good player, and clutch at times, but HOF? I can't get there. Fortunately for JD, I don't have a vote.

x2, but doesn't 3,000 hits pretty much guarantee an induction?

Where would this team have gone, if they had kept Damon, Dye, Beltran and Ibanez?

CoMoChief · 11-03-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

x2, but doesn't 3,000 hits pretty much guarantee an induction?

Where would this team have gone, if they had kept Damon, Dye, Beltran and Ibanez?

With a possible rotation of Greinke, Lincecum, DelaRosa, and Meche in the playoffs.....this team would go very far. ALCS at least.

**HemiEd** · 11-03-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

With a possible rotation of Greinke, Lincecum, DelaRosa, and Meche in the playoffs.....this team would go very far. ALCS at least.

Yeah, baseball used to be fun back in the day when the Royals were contenders every year.

But I haven't watched a single inning of the playoffs or WS this year, just don't care. **** the Yankees!

**gblowfish** · 11-03-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Makes me sick how many good players we let go, only to end up with crumbier players.

Johnny Damon
Jermaine Dye
Carlos Beltran
and on and on...

Spend some money, Glass.

Screw all y'all.
And screw Scott Boras too!

melbar · 11-03-2009, 11:00 AM

But hey, at least we got him out of KC right?....right?

**BigRedChief** · 11-03-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Makes me sick how many good players we let go, only to end up with crumbier players.

Johnny Damon
Jermaine Dye
Carlos Beltran
and on and on...

Spend some money, Glass.

It's not all money anymore.
2009 Cardinals payroll = $76.5 million
2009 Royals payroll = $71.5 million

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-03-2009, 11:40 AM

BRC, you might want to look over the Cards payroll again, especially all the dead money we were paying to guys like Kennedy.

It was right at 89-91 million

**BigRedChief** · 11-03-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

BRC, you might want to look over the Cards payroll again, especially all the dead money we were paying to guys like Kennedy.

It was right at 89-91 million

opening day payroll. Not what it was at the end of the year. The most trusted and believed database is the USA Today's database. Looks like my figures were $2million off. Still not a big competitve advantage.
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/b...aspx?year=2009

2009

Team	Total payroll
New York Yankees	$ 201,449,189
New York Mets	$ 149,373,987
Chicago Cubs	$ 134,809,000
Boston Red Sox	$ 121,745,999
Detroit Tigers	$ 115,085,145
Los Angeles Angels	$ 113,709,000
Philadelphia Phillies	$ 113,004,046
Houston Astros	$ 102,996,414
Los Angeles Dodgers	$ 100,414,592
Seattle Mariners	$ 98,904,166
Atlanta Braves	$ 96,726,166
Chicago White Sox	$ 96,068,500
San Francisco Giants	$ 82,616,450
Cleveland Indians	$ 81,579,166
Toronto Blue Jays	$ 80,538,300
Milwaukee Brewers	$ 80,182,502
St. Louis Cardinals	$ 77,605,109
Colorado Rockies	$ 75,201,000
Cincinnati Reds	$ 73,558,500
Arizona Diamondbacks	$ 73,516,666
Kansas City Royals	$ 70,519,333
Texas Rangers	$ 68,178,798
Baltimore Orioles	$ 67,101,666
Minnesota Twins	$ 65,299,266
Tampa Bay Rays	$ 63,313,034
Oakland Athletics	$ 62,310,000
Washington Nationals	$ 60,328,000
Pittsburgh Pirates	$ 48,693,000
San Diego Padres	$ 43,734,200
Florida Marlins	$ 36,834,000

You want to see the Cardinals exact contracts, length and also other teams?
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...115041890.html

**Bowser** · 11-03-2009, 11:49 AM

Damon had a Hall of Fame Jesus mullet for a few years....

kstater · 11-03-2009, 11:55 AM

No, and it really shouldn't be much of a discussion IMO.

**Bowser** · 11-03-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Damon, Dye, Beltran, Ibanez, Affeldt, Ramirez, DelaRosa

Drafting Luke "More MLB ready" Hochevar over "Soon-to-be 2-time Cy Young Winner" Tim Lincecum

Drafting Alex "bust" Gordon over Evan Longoria

Imagine if Berroa panned out after his rookie of the year season. Man did he tank.

1. LF Damon
2. CF Beltran
3. 3B Longoria
4. RF Dye
5. DH Butler
6. 1B Ibanez
7. SS Berroa
8. 2B Callaspo
9. C anyone but Buck

That 1-6 order is pretty sick considering Butler doesn't do his typical "wait til late summer/early fall to produce" act.

Pitching
Greinke
Lincecum
Meche
DeLaRosa
"some free agent"

Bullpen
Affeldt
Ramirez
Soria

This team would ****ing whoop the shit out of our division.

Thanks Glass!!!

Good lord.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-03-2009, 12:00 PM

Pujols 09:$16M:
Carpenter: 09:$14M
Matt Holliday: 5MM (Pro-Rated amount of 13.5 Million)
Glaus: 12 Million
Pineiro: 7.5 Million
Lohse: 7.1 Million
Greene: 6.5 Million
DeRosa: 2.25 Million (Pro-Rated amount of 5.5)
Wellemeyer: 4 million
Ludwick: 3.7 million
Molina: 3.25 million
Ankiel 2.8 million
Wainwright: 2.6 million
Franklin: 2.5 million
Miller: 2 million
Reyes: 1 Million

That also leaves out the 5 million we're paying Kennedy to be a part of the A's.

Total payroll:

97.2 not including rookie or vet minimum deals.

Take off the pro-rated 7-8 mill you have for DeRo and Holliday, and add in the rookie deals, and you have precisely the number I told you.

And moreover, USA Today is not the source you should be going to for this. It's vivaelbirdos.

11-03-2009, 07:15 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3914454	Johnny Damon Hall of Famer?? Discuss Planeteers.... http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1582 All of which is just a long introduction to the question: is Johnny Damon a Hall of Famer? He's sitting at 2,425 hits, so four more seasons and -- assuming the Yankees win one of the next three -- he'll have 3,000 hits along with (at least) two championship rings. Pretty good case, no? He has scored more than 100 runs 10 times in his career. He will probably finish his career in the top 20 all-time, and perhaps even top 10 in runs scored. It's a better career than you might think off hand, and in the end, his Hall candidacy probably depends more upon how closely voters draw their circle than anything. For me, he falls just outside, as one of the really good players whose exclusion from the Hall makes the honor of being inducted even more special. There are just too many holes in the argument. He's a top-of-the-order guy who strikes out more than he walks, is a career .288 hitter and never finished in the top 10 in on-base percentage (his career high was .382 in his last season with the Royals in 2000). He is a corner outfielder with a legendarily bad arm who's led the league in something just three times -- runs (136) and steals (46) in 2000, and triples (11) in 2002. He's made just two All-Star teams, and never finished higher than 13th in MVP voting. More than any of that, he's never been the best player at his position, or on his team. On Baseball Reference's similarity score, Lou Brock is the only Hall of Famer among the 10 listed with Damon (though Pete Rose is one of the others). Anyway, the point here is not to bash a really good player the day after giving us a really great moment. The point here is to solicit the thoughts of you fine readers while I prepare to jog off some of the cheesesteak from yesterday. The Keltner List is a good tool to use in making judgments.
Posts: 66,914

11-03-2009, 08:59 AM	#16
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	Makes me sick how many good players we let go, only to end up with crumbier players. Johnny Damon Jermaine Dye Carlos Beltran and on and on... Spend some money, Glass. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777

11-03-2009, 09:05 AM	#17
BigCatDaddy The Beast Inside Your Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $2019122	Just think of how many all-star games he would have played in as a Royal, since we have to send somebody.
Posts: 25,866

11-03-2009, 09:09 AM	#18
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8052254	Damon, Dye, Beltran, Ibanez, Affeldt, Ramirez, DelaRosa Drafting Luke "More MLB ready" Hochevar over "Soon-to-be 2-time Cy Young Winner" Tim Lincecum Drafting Alex "bust" Gordon over Evan Longoria Imagine if Berroa panned out after his rookie of the year season. Man did he tank. 1. LF Damon 2. CF Beltran 3. 3B Longoria 4. RF Dye 5. DH Butler 6. 1B Ibanez 7. SS Berroa 8. 2B Callaspo 9. C anyone but Buck That 1-6 order is pretty sick considering Butler doesn't do his typical "wait til late summer/early fall to produce" act. Pitching Greinke Lincecum Meche DeLaRosa "some free agent" Bullpen Affeldt Ramirez Soria This team would ***ing whoop the shit out of our division. Thanks Glass!!! Last edited by CoMoChief; 11-03-2009 at 09:18 AM..*
Posts: 39,156

11-03-2009, 11:00 AM	#23
melbar Hillbilly Pharoh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Branson MO. Casino cash: $10004900	But hey, at least we got him out of KC right?....right? __________________
Posts: 2,148

11-03-2009, 11:40 AM	#25
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	BRC, you might want to look over the Cards payroll again, especially all the dead money we were paying to guys like Kennedy. It was right at 89-91 million __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826

11-03-2009, 11:49 AM	#27
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3441616	Damon had a Hall of Fame Jesus mullet for a few years....
Posts: 100,647

11-03-2009, 11:55 AM	#28
kstater Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2007 Casino cash: $1876563	No, and it really shouldn't be much of a discussion IMO.
Posts: 39,175

11-03-2009, 12:00 PM	#30
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	Pujols 09:$16M: Carpenter: 09:$14M Matt Holliday: 5MM (Pro-Rated amount of 13.5 Million) Glaus: 12 Million Pineiro: 7.5 Million Lohse: 7.1 Million Greene: 6.5 Million DeRosa: 2.25 Million (Pro-Rated amount of 5.5) Wellemeyer: 4 million Ludwick: 3.7 million Molina: 3.25 million Ankiel 2.8 million Wainwright: 2.6 million Franklin: 2.5 million Miller: 2 million Reyes: 1 Million That also leaves out the 5 million we're paying Kennedy to be a part of the A's. Total payroll: 97.2 not including rookie or vet minimum deals. Take off the pro-rated 7-8 mill you have for DeRo and Holliday, and add in the rookie deals, and you have precisely the number I told you. And moreover, USA Today is not the source you should be going to for this. It's vivaelbirdos. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,826