Windows Surface Tablet

[Pushead2]

I tried to search for a thread on this and didn't see any (forgiveness please if Q).

Anyone purchase one of these? Either the 1st generation or the 2nd?

eBay daily deals has a deal on what appears to be the 1st generation, 32GB for only $180.

I primarily will use it for social networking, watching some NHL GameCenter Live and sometimes movies / TV shows.

[DaveNull]

Originally Posted by Pushead2

An iPad 2 is within my reasonable price range but is it going to be like most Apple Products that they are left for shit once they upgrade?

Aren't they on the 5th generation of the iPad already?

In general Apple is great at supporting their stuff with software updates as long as the hardware will push it than any Android device. Google and the hardware makers haven't been able to get any more than 3.5% of total Android devices up to the current version. That's compared to Apple getting 74% of their devices up to iOS 7 as of December, with only 4% stuck on iOS 5 or earlier.

My 2007 iMac was running the most recent version of the OS. The only Mac I've used that got stuck without updates was a 2008 Mac Pro that wouldn't got to Mountain Lion but it would run everything before it without a problem.

Right now the first iPad won't run iOS 7, but that's because it had something like 256MB of RAM which was pretty slim.

That said, you're right that the iPad 2 is pretty long in the tooth. If you bought one now, I wouldn't expect to run iOS 8 one it when that drops in the fall.

For what it's worth, my OG iPad still plays back video just fine and we use it for the things you described in your original post.

[Fish]

My iPad2 is still the most frequently used device I own. But yeah, it's not going to run iOS8....

[DaveNull]

30 pin for life!

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DaveNull

30 pin for life!

My cord is wearing out, just past the shrink wrap. Got a pinhole in it. Tried electrical tape but it doesn't stick well...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by DaveNull

30 pin for life!

[Xanathol]

Let me clear up the crap on the Surface RT. Note - I am no fan - if you want a tablet, get the Dell 8" or 11". But this misinformation about the RT is just... sigh...


90% of the 'complaints' people have about the Surface RT completely ignores what a user is after, ie. "its not real Windows!". Perfect example is this thread - nowhere did the OP say they wanted to run 'real Windows'. And guess what? You won't run 'real Windows' or your Windows desktop apps on an iPad or Andriod tablet either. Do people mistakenly expect they can run real Windows apps because it is from Microsoft and MS did a bad job of making that clear? Of course... but a 5 minute product search and that expectation is addressed.

That said, it is real Windows - the difference is it is running on an ARM processor and app signing is enforced. The app signing is easy to get around, thanks to a widely available app that can disable it on boot. The ARM processor is the real 'got ya', when comparing to a Window's desktop, as more than likely, you don't have any apps that can run on an ARM. If you have a .Net app compiled for Any CPU, it runs just fine on a Surface RT with signing turned off; I run my own apps on mine all the time. But don't forget the paragraph above - you weren't running your Windows apps on an iPad or Andriod either! But you can Remote Desktop from your Surface to your main machine...

Network issues have happened, the most common being an apparent DNS issue on wake from connected standby ( other words, you turn it on and can't browse to a website ). The solution is to just disconnect and reconnect, then it should be fine.. at least until you let it go to sleep again. Annoying, yes, but not crucial, plus, the issue seems to be router dependent.

Disconnects during streaming or such are a bit rare; I won't say I haven't hear of them happening but I have never experienced it myself or personally know anyone who has. I've personally heard of no more issues like this than with any other brand.

IE is... well, IE. Twitter works great as does facebook - ie. most of your social sites. Streaming from ESPN3 or the like works terrifically. If you want to watch ripped movies, you have to be careful of the format; MKV support is not built in ( huge miss IMO ) and high encoding settings can choke it at times; just think "can a WD TV Live play this?" when it comes to the encoding issues. If the answer is yes, then the Surface RT can usually too.

Other notes... even on an RT, you get Office apps ( student version ), a Micro SD card port, a USB port, a mini-HDMI port ( yup - can plug it into your TV ), a kickstand, and you can get a keyboard attachment. Honestly, no real reason to choose a similar class iPad or Andriod tablet over an RT, unless there is an app you want that doesn't exist yet or you need an LTE connection.


That said - do yourself a major favor, save some dough, and get a Dell Venue Pro or something like it. Baytrail CPU ( yes, you can run your normal apps ), BT, 4G option ( major issue I have with the Surface is the lack thereof ), Miracast ( WiFi direct to your TV, if supported by said TV ), battery extending keyboard option... hell I could go on. If you're talking ~$300 vs $500 11", go with the $500 one every time. For $180... well, that's your call, but Dell does have the 8" version that compares better in price.

[007]

All I did was post my first hand experience with it. Don't know how that was being anti windows RT.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Xanathol

Let me clear up the crap on the Surface RT. Note - I am no fan - if you want a tablet, get the Dell 8" or 11". But this misinformation about the RT is just... sigh...


90% of the 'complaints' people have about the Surface RT completely ignores what a user is after, ie. "its not real Windows!". Perfect example is this thread - nowhere did the OP say they wanted to run 'real Windows'. And guess what? You won't run 'real Windows' or your Windows desktop apps on an iPad or Andriod tablet either. Do people mistakenly expect they can run real Windows apps because it is from Microsoft and MS did a bad job of making that clear? Of course... but a 5 minute product search and that expectation is addressed.

If somebody asks for my opinion about a Microsoft Surface RT, I will continue to say exactly what I said the first time. I'm not going to say "Yeah, it's Windows baby!" and leave it up to the person asking the question to go do his own resarch. He'll be severely disappointed if he shells out his hard-earned cash and then discovers that he can't load standard Windows software on a product manufactured by Microsoft and running Microsoft's OS, especially when Microsoft calls the OS Windows 8 RT.

Something as wrong as that needs to be pointed out, especially when someone asks specifically about the Surface RT.

Yes, if you are technically savvy enough you can get around the app signing and you can compile your own apps to be portable and run on the ARM architecture. Bully for you. But that's not what a typical user is going to do. Especially when the user says up front that he will primarily use his new tablet for social networking and watching sports and TV.

The Surface RT was resoundingly rejected by the marketplace. Microsoft took a $900 million loss on it in the 4th quarter of 2013 because those pieces of shit weren't selling, and Steve Ballmer lost his job shortly after that. That's something else a potential buyer should be aware of.

There's nothing wrong the ARM architecture itself. What was wrong was all of the boneheaded decisions Microsoft made regarding Windows 8 on ARM and Windows 8 in general. You obviously agree, and you recommended avoiding the Surface RT. I just found it puzzling that you defended the product so vehemently that you referred to honest criticism of it as "crap" and "misinformation".

If information is correct and useful, it's neither "crap" nor "misinformation".

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Pushead2

An iPad 2 is within my reasonable price range but is it going to be like most Apple Products that they are left for shit once they upgrade?

Aren't they on the 5th generation of the iPad already?

What most people don't know is that even though Apple has introduced several newer models of the iPad, up until two months ago they continued to produce and sell new iPad 2s as a lower cost option.

My iPad is an iPad 2. I've had it for several years and I can't believe how much I love that little tablet. I normally like to stay current on technology, but I see nothing in the newer iPads that compels me to go out and buy one. My iPad 2 still runs IOS 6,and I have no plans to upgrade.

Two weeks ago I decided to buy an iPad 2 for my wife. Best Buy recently sold out their inventory, but I was able to find one at the Office Max store in Lenexa.

An iPad 2 would be a great choice for a low-cost tablet. As has been pointed out, it probably won't run IOS 8, but the one I bought two weeks ago came pre-loaded with IOS 7,and Apple hasn't even announced yet when IOS 8 will be available.

An iPad 2 would do just fine for you, if you can still find one.

.

[Xanathol]

Originally Posted by Guru

All I did was post my first hand experience with it. Don't know how that was being anti windows RT.

Wasn't really replying to you man.

Originally Posted by Brainiac

If somebody asks for my opinion about a Microsoft Surface RT, I will continue to say exactly what I said the first time. I'm not going to say "Yeah, it's Windows baby!" and leave it up to the person asking the question to go do his own resarch. He'll be severely disappointed if he shells out his hard-earned cash and then discovers that he can't load standard Windows software on a product manufactured by Microsoft and running Microsoft's OS, especially when Microsoft calls the OS Windows 8 RT.

Something as wrong as that needs to be pointed out, especially when someone asks specifically about the Surface RT.

Yes, if you are technically savvy enough you can get around the app signing and you can compile your own apps to be portable and run on the ARM architecture. Bully for you. But that's not what a typical user is going to do. Especially when the user says up front that he will primarily use his new tablet for social networking and watching sports and TV.

The Surface RT was resoundingly rejected by the marketplace. Microsoft took a $900 million loss on it in the 4th quarter of 2013 because those pieces of shit weren't selling, and Steve Ballmer lost his job shortly after that. That's something else a potential buyer should be aware of.

There's nothing wrong the ARM architecture itself. What was wrong was all of the boneheaded decisions Microsoft made regarding Windows 8 on ARM and Windows 8 in general. You obviously agree, and you recommended avoiding the Surface RT. I just found it puzzling that you defended the product so vehemently that you referred to honest criticism of it as "crap" and "misinformation".

If information is correct and useful, it's neither "crap" nor "misinformation".

You can say whatever you like of course but saying 'it isn't really Windows' is incorrect.

There's no denying that the decision to go ARM vs Atom was a poor one (driven by a perceived need to differentiate the RT from the Pro), but that didn't cost Steve his job alone - he'd been failing for at least a decade. Anyway, this is my biggest gripe about the RT; MS knew the expectations and decided to try to profit off the confusion instead of eliminating it.

All that said, its still a damned good product, which just makes it more embarrassing to screw up. There's really no reason to choose an equivalent iPad or Andriod tablet over the RT other than LTE or some app that may not exist on the RT. Take whatever those tablets do and the RT gives you more. But again, the Dell or something like it is MUCH better.

[Buns]

Just throwing this out there: Best Buy is giving a $25 gift card and $75 towards any new laptop purchase if you trade in a Windows XP laptop that works. I traded in a six year old netbook and used it to get a Chromebook for $110 after tax. Excited to get it.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Xanathol

You can say whatever you like of course but saying 'it isn't really Windows' is incorrect.

Fine. Let me rephrase it. Windows RT is a kludgey stripped-down version of Windows that won't run standard Windows applications, has been rejected by the marketplace, and is already slated to die. If you find a cool Windows app and you decide you want to download it and run it on your Windows RT tablet, forget about it. It won't work. The only apps you can download are the ones Microsoft has ported to the ARM platform and put in the official Windows Apps Store.

Plus, Microsoft has already confirmed that Windows RT is going to die. You're not going to find a whole lot of new apps written for a dead operating system.

Originally Posted by Xanathol

There's no denying that the decision to go ARM vs Atom was a poor one (driven by a perceived need to differentiate the RT from the Pro), but that didn't cost Steve his job alone - he'd been failing for at least a decade. Anyway, this is my biggest gripe about the RT; MS knew the expectations and decided to try to profit off the confusion instead of eliminating it.

All that said, its still a damned good product, which just makes it more embarrassing to screw up. There's really no reason to choose an equivalent iPad or Andriod tablet over the RT other than LTE or some app that may not exist on the RT. Take whatever those tablets do and the RT gives you more.

I suppose which is "better" is really a matter of opinon, so there is no right or wrong answer. I'll just say that I couldn't disagree more with the opinion that you expressed about the Surface RT.

Let's get one thing out of the way that I think we do agree on: Windows a GREAT desktop OS. I use it all the time, and I've used pretty much OS there is. Windows rocks. Microsoft has been improving the product for 20 years, and it shows. It's extremely intuitive and easy to use (at least until that abortion called Windows 8 came along), and the amount of software available for it blows away EVERYTHING else. The Apple fanbois love their Macs and their OS X, but Windows blows it away with very few exceptions. (One of those exceptions is Facetime. Sure, you can do the same thing with Skype and a lot of other products, but Facetime is just easy and intuitive and the video quality is better, at least for me.)

However, in my opinion, Windows 8 sucks as a tablet OS. It just plain sucks and there's no getting around it.

Why? Because the user interfaces for both the iPad and Android tablets are much cleaner and far more intuitive than Windows 8. Microsoft realizes that and apparently fixes a lot of the problems with the latest Windows 8.1 update, but Microsoft is still insisting on pounding a square peg into a round hole. I can say from personal experience that I have NEVER had to resort to doing Google search on another device in order to figure out how to navigate my around in either IOS or Android. With Windows 8, I had to do that constantly the first couple of weeks.

While a mouse certainly isn't required to use Windows 8 on a table with a touch-screen, it sure does come in handy sometimes. A mouse is not an option for iPads or Androids, and it's not a surprise that all of the interfaces are designed so that it would never even occur to you to grab a mouse. That's not the case with Windows apps on a tablet.

If you love Windows on a tablet, that's great. I don't.

Originally Posted by Xanathol

But again, the Dell or something like it is MUCH better.

Finally, this is something we agree on: Dell or just about anything else running Windows 8 Professional is MUCH better than anything running Windows RT. I just don't agree that any tablet Windows 8 Professiopnal is "better" than an iPad or an Android tablet.

[Lzen]

Nebraska furniture mart had an Asus 16gb 10 inch tablet that runs 4.2 (?) For $229.