Quarterbackery: Round 4, Heat 6

[Rain Man]

Okay, this is the bottom heat. The loser here is out of the tourney.

Tampa Bay

Trent Dilfer - 5 (Scales up to 6 years)
Vinny Testaverde - 5 (Scales up to 6 years)
Doug Williams - 5 (Scales up to 6 years)
Josh Freeman - 4 (Scales up to 5 years)
Brad Johnson - 3 (Scales up to 4 years)
Steve Deberg - 3 (Scales up to 4 years)
Jeff Garcia - 2 (Scales up to 3 years)
Craig Erickson - 2 (Scales up to 3 years)
Jameis Winston - 1 (and current starter)
Josh McCown - 1
Mike Glennon - 1
Bruce Gradkowski - 1
Chris Simms - 1
Brian Griese - 1
Shaun King - 1
Steve Young - 1
Jack Thompson - 1
Gary Huff - 1
Steve Spurrier - 1

The Buccaneers produced 4 pro bowlers (scales up to 5 in 50 years), one each by Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Garcia, and Jameis Winston.

Washington

Joe Theisman - 8 seasons
Billy Kilmer - 7
Mark Rypien - 5
Sonny Jurgenson - 5 (led team for 7 seasons, but only 5 since 1966)
Jason Campbell - 3
Patrick Ramsey - 3
Gus Frerotte - 3
Kirk Cousins - 2 (and current starter)
Robert Griffin - 2
Mark Brunell - 2
Brad Johnson - 2
Jay Schroeder - 2
Rex Grossman - 1
Donovan McNabb - 1
Tony Banks - 1
Trent Green - 1
Heath Shuler - 1
Doug Williams - 1

The Redskins produced 12 pro bowlers, led by Sonny Jurgensen with 3.

Kansas City

Len Dawson - 8 (led team for 12 seasons, but only 8 since 1966)
Bill Kenney - 7
Trent Green - 5
Mike Livingston - 5
Matt Cassel - 4
Steve Deberg - 4
Alex Smith - 3 (and current starter)
Elvis Grbac - 3
Damon Huard - 2
Steve Bono - 2
Joe Montana - 2
Steve Fuller - 2
Tyler Thigpen - 1
Rich Gannon - 1
Dave Krieg - 1

The Chiefs produced 14 pro bowlers during this span, led by Len Dawson with 5.

Cleveland

Brian Sipe - 8
Bernie Kosar - 7
Frank Ryan - 5 (led team for 6 seasons, buy only 5 in 1963 or later)
Tim Couch - 4
Mike Phipps - 4
Bill Nelson - 4
Vinny Testaverde - 3
Colt McCoy - 2
Derek Anderson - 2
Josh McCown - 1 (and current starter)
Bobby Hoyer - 1
Jason Campbell - 1
Brandon Weeden - 1
Brady Quinn - 1
Charlie Frye - 1
Trent Dilfer - 1
Jeff Garcia - 1
Kelly Holcomb - 1
Mike Tomczak - 1
Paul McDonald - 1

Cleveland produced 7 pro bowlers in that period, led by Frank Ryan with 3.

Chicago

Jay Cutler - 7 seasons (current starter)
Jim McMahon - 6
Jim Harbaugh - 4
Erik Kramer - 3
Bob Avellini - 3
Bobby Douglass - 3
Jack Concannon - 3
Kyle Orton - 2
Jim Miller - 2
Mike Tomczak - 2
Vince Evans - 2
Gary Huff - 2
Rex Grossman - 1
Brian Griese - 1
Chad Hutchinson - 1
Kordell Stewart - 1
Cade McNown - 1
Shane Matthews - 1
Dave Krieg - 1
Steve Walsh - 1
Mike Phipps - 1
Virgil Carter - 1
Rudy Bukich - 1 (led for 2 seasons, one before 1966)

The Bears quarterbacks produced one pro bowl, led by Jim McMahon with one.*

[Rain Man]

Okay, even the most diehard fan should pick KC here. They've got a Hall of Famer at the top of the list and Trent Green further down. Those may be the best two QB careers in this whole heat.

I was torn between Chicago and Tampa at the bottom, but probably have to go with Tampa. Cutler+McMahon > Dilfer+Testeverde+.6*Doug Williams.

[TLO]

Great googily moogily there's some poor QB play in this heat.

[Tombstone RJ]

Can you break down how KC has 14 pro bowls with Dawson only having 5 of those probowls? Smith has, what, 2? Green maybe has 1?

[Marmatag]

Cleveland is the ultimate shit show.

Washington has had the best in this group. The high points are equivalent if you go back into the 60s for each team, but after that, the Redskins have had a pretty decent signal caller in every decade, and they have the rings to show for it.

The Chiefs would be a pretty close second, however they have that tendency to get guys on the downslope of their career.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Can you break down how KC has 14 pro bowls with Dawson only having 5 of those probowls? Smith has, what, 2? Green maybe has 1?

Pretty sure Green has more than one. You're also forgetting Joe Montana and Matt "Pro Bowl" Cassel.

[Rain Man]

Okay, who wants to argue that Washington is better than Kansas City? It's an insane comparison.

8 years of Len Dawson versus 8 years of Joe Theisman - KC wins huge. Dawson is a Hall of Famer who really deserved it.

5 years of Trent Green versus 5 years of Sonny Jurgenson. Probably a draw.

7 years of Bill Kenney versus 7 years of Billy Kilmer. Probably a draw, but maybe a slight advantage to Washington.

What else does Washington offer? Rypien, Kirk Cousins, a good year of RGIII, and a few wind-down years by guys way past their prime.

What else does Kansas City offer? Two years of Montana. Check and mate. Add in three years of Alex Smith, 4 years of Deberg, and another good year here and there.


I think the Chiefs win the battle on the low end of the roster, and Dawson blows away Washington's best. This is no contest.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Can you break down how KC has 14 pro bowls with Dawson only having 5 of those probowls? Smith has, what, 2? Green maybe has 1?

Len Dawson had 5 pro bowls from 1966 on, and 2 before 1966 that I didn't count.

Mike Livingston had 1 pro bowl in 1969, when he kept the wheels on KC's Super Bowl season as a third string rookie when Dawson and Jackie Lee both were hurt.

Bill Kenney had 1 pro bowl in 1983 when he threw for over 4,000 yards. At the time, only three QBs had had 4,000 yard seasons: Dan Fouts, Joe Namath, and Brian Sipe.

Joe Montana had 1 pro bowl in 1993 when he led the Chiefs to the AFC championship game with a 4th down game-winning TD over the Steelers and a come from behind win over the league juggernaut Oilers.

Steve Bono made 1 pro bowl in 1995 when he and Derrick Thomas led the Chiefs to a 13-3 record despite the presence of Paul Hackett.

Elvis Grbac made 1 pro bowl in 2000 with a 4,000 yard season.

Trent Green made 2 pro bowls running one of the best offenses in NFL history, logging 2 4,000+ yard seasons.

Matt Cassel made 1 pro bowl in 2010, presumably because every other quarterback on earth was eaten by ligers.

Alex Smith made 1 pro bowl in 2013 after leading the Chiefs in a huge turnaround from 2-14 to 11-5.

[Al Bundy]

The only reason I didn't vote Tampa last was because Winston is already better than any QB the Bears have had in the last 50 years.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

The only reason I didn't vote Tampa last was because Winston is already better than any QB the Bears have had in the last 50 years.

It was probably a mistake on their part to trade Steve Young.

[Al Bundy]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

It was probably a mistake on their part to trade Steve Young.

That was Ray Perkins.. he was a ****stick and is the worst head coach in the history of the Buccaneers.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

That was Ray Perkins.. he was a ****stick and is the worst head coach in the history of the Buccaneers.

How would you rank the TB quarterbacks? In fairness, Young was pretty raw with the Bucs, but it still hurts.

I haven't seen Winston, so I'll hold him out, but I would probably rank the top three as:

Brad Johnson
Steve Deberg
Vinny Testaverde

Maybe Doug Williams was better, or Josh Freeman. I was surprised at Josh Freeman's fast departure and Mike Glennon's fast fall, because they seemed to have potential based on what I saw in highlights and the occasional game.

[Al Bundy]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

How would you rank the TB quarterbacks? In fairness, Young was pretty raw with the Bucs, but it still hurts.

I haven't seen Winston, so I'll hold him out, but I would probably rank the top three as:

Brad Johnson
Steve Deberg
Vinny Testaverde

Maybe Doug Williams was better, or Josh Freeman. I was surprised at Josh Freeman's fast departure and Mike Glennon's fast fall, because they seemed to have potential based on what I saw in highlights and the occasional game.

I would rank them in this order
Brad Johnson
Jameis Winston
Doug Williams
Vinny Testaverde
Steve Deberg
Josh Freeman
Steve Young (he wasn't good with the Bucs, but I blame that on Leeman Bennett being clueless)
Trent Dilfer
Mike Glennon
Craig Erickson
the rest is complete crap.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

I would rank them in this order
Brad Johnson
Jameis Winston
Doug Williams
Vinny Testaverde
Steve Deberg
Josh Freeman
Steve Young (he wasn't good with the Bucs, but I blame that on Leeman Bennett being clueless)
Trent Dilfer
Mike Glennon
Craig Erickson
the rest is complete crap.

Admittedly, I don't remember the differences between the Williams and Testaverde eras.

I liked Brad Johnson for both the Buccaneers and Vikings. But overall, it appears that we agree that it's a cringeworthy list. (And yet the Buccaneers have a Super Bowl win in the last 15 years. Sigh.)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Washington.

Because **** trying to prop-up KC's pathetic history with the position.

KC; you get the shit vote.