Teicher: Chiefs' draft gambles often go bust

tk13 · 04-17-2005, 01:04 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/11413901.htm

Chiefs' gambles often go bust

For KC, must-have turns into must-go

By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star

If you're wondering why the Chiefs were 7-9 last year and watched the Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl, the teams' different approaches to the 2002 draft are as good a reason as any.

The Chiefs needed defensive tackles to be immediate starters. They drafted Ryan Sims and Eddie Freeman in the first two rounds and hoped they had the problem solved.

The Eagles passed on immediate needs and instead saw the bigger picture. They were getting old in the secondary and decided it was time to do something about that, so they drafted a couple of cornerbacks and a safety in the first two rounds.

Fast forward to 2005. Sims hasn't lived up to his potential, and Freeman lasted only two miserable seasons before being cut. The Chiefs last year had to sign one defensive tackle, Lional Dalton, and used their top draft pick on another, Junior Siavii, to cover for these failures.

Meanwhile, Philadelphia's top 2002 draft picks, cornerbacks Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown and safety Michael Lewis, played little as rookies. But they now are starters for one of the NFL's best defensive teams.

The draft has become one big vicious circle for the Chiefs. As this year's talent lottery looms next weekend, the Chiefs have cornerback and linebacker at the top of their must-have list.

Why? Because their recent high draft picks at those positions, William Bartee and Julian Battle at cornerback and Kawika Mitchell at linebacker, haven't panned out.

***

Since Dick Vermeil arrived as head coach in 2001, the Chiefs have continually forced needs in the early rounds of the draft. From Sims and Freeman in 2002 to running back Larry Johnson and Mitchell the following year and Siavii last season, the Chiefs drafted for what they perceived to be a need.

They varied from that formula only with the second of last year's two second-round picks, and they eventually might be richly rewarded for it. They went for Kris Wilson, the best available player on their draft board regardless of position.

Wilson filled no need. He just gives the Chiefs something they don't have: an H-back/tight end hybrid who can be a problem for opposing defenses to check because of his size and pass-catching ability.

The Chiefs had big hopes for Wilson last year before a preseason ankle injury ruined his season. They are optimistic he will rebound to make his contribution this year.

Even if he doesn't, the Chiefs won't be stuck in a future draft trying to find someone to take his place. That approach, and the way the Eagles have done it, appears to make more sense.

“That makes a lot of sense because the reality is that very few rookies contribute,” said Russ Lande, a former NFL scout who now runs an Internet scouting site at www.gmjr.com.

“It's a very small number, so why would you bank on a rookie to come in and help you in his first year? That's an unrealistic expectation. Rookies just struggle in the NFL.”

Trying too hard to fill immediate needs appears to be the Chiefs' biggest draft problem, particularly on defense. The Chiefs have only a couple of good, young defensive players in linebacker Scott Fujita and end Jared Allen. Fujita's ankle injury is threatening his season.

It's more than a little telling that both were second-day picks (Fujita in the fifth round in 2002, Allen in the fourth last year). Their other recent first-day defensive draft picks (Sims, Mitchell, Battle, Siavii and linebacker Keyaron Fox) don't qualify as good young defensive players, though that could still change.

***

The Chiefs' scouting staff, including player personnel director Lynn Stiles and college scouting director Chuck Cook, have received plenty of criticism for the poor drafts. But they are generally well-respected around the NFL.

“I don't know if there's a direct correlation between the competency of the personnel office and success in the draft,” said a player agent who had dealt with the Chiefs. “That's like saying a really sharp businessman is going to do better in blackjack in Las Vegas than somebody who's not a sharp businessman. There's such a huge unknown factor when you're dealing with a draft choice, and I think the Chiefs have been as unlucky as they've been bad. That luck has to turn sometime, you'd think.”

The problem may not be the competency of the people making the Chiefs' draft decisions but the number of them. Stiles, Cook, Vermeil, pro personnel director Bill Kuharich and president/general manager Carl Peterson all have their say. Assistant coaches, particularly coordinators Gunther Cunningham and Al Saunders, have been known to lobby for particular players.

That's a lot of voices.

“They have so many people at the top that it can be hard sometimes to come to a consensus on a player,” Lande said. “There's the possibility of too many differing opinions.”

The Chiefs are Vermeil's third team. Asked how draft preparations are different in Kansas City than Philadelphia or St. Louis, he answered, “There are more people involved in the evaluation process.”

Another difference: Vermeil also had the final say with the Eagles and Rams. Peterson is the Chiefs' ultimate decision-maker.

“I have no problem with the way it is here, especially in the middle rounds,” Vermeil said. “I've never had to get up on the table and fight for somebody. Carl and I work very well together.”

Vermeil wasn't pleased when the Chiefs drafted Johnson. He filled what the Chiefs thought would be a need two years ago because of uncertainty over Priest Holmes' hip injury.

But even though he's a backup, Johnson is one of the Chiefs' better draft picks. He played well last season and appears to have a future in Kansas City.

“I just felt we needed a defensive player,” Vermeil said. “It was nothing against Larry Johnson. As it looks right now, we did the right thing.”

***

Circumstances conspired against the Chiefs in Vermeil's first draft. They lost their second-round draft pick for the right to hire Vermeil and didn't have a quarterback.

So they sent their first choice to St. Louis for quarterback Trent Green.

The lost draft picks left the Chiefs scrambling at key positions, most notably defensive tackle. So the first time they had their first two picks, the Chiefs attacked the problem.

“Initially we were pushed into drafting defensively,” Vermeil said. “Both of our big defensive tackles (Chester McGlockton and Dan Williams) were gone, and we were sort of pressured into forcing some guys into being what you want.

“That's why you've got to be careful of moving a person into a rating that allows you to say you're drafting the best player available.”

That's probably the biggest reason the Chiefs' defensive tackles haven't worked out. The Chiefs needed them so badly that perspective was lost.

The pick that to this day confounds the Chiefs is Sims. He's a starter, but not the dominant player a lot of people expected him to be.

“Everybody had him as a can't-miss prospect,” Lande said. “There were even people at North Carolina who would tell you they liked him better than (Julius) Peppers.”

The Chiefs repeated the process last year when they needed a defensive tackle again. Siavii wasn't the top available player on the Chiefs' draft board, but they took him anyway.

“He's got a way to go, but he showed some great potential,” Vermeil said. “It's going to take time.”

Now the Chiefs have a similar issue at cornerback.

Bartee has never developed as the Chiefs predicted when they drafted him in the second round in 2000.

At least Bartee has been able to play. Battle, the Chiefs' third-round pick in 2003, has struggled so much he can't even get out on the field.

Battle, like Bartee and Eric Warfield, played a lot of safety in college and hasn't made the transition.

“Battle has tremendous potential,” Vermeil said.

“He's not a failure. He's got some maturing to do, like all 23- and 24-year-olds do. I believe he'll be a fine player. If he doesn't become one, it's not because he doesn't have the talent. It'll be because he didn't mature at a fast enough rate to take advantage of his opportunities.”

That's been the problem with many of the Chiefs' recent defensive draft picks. It was particularly acute with Freeman. The Chiefs gave up on him quickly for a second-round pick.

Maybe the Chiefs should have listened to their first instinct.

After getting Sims with their first pick, they were going to draft a wide receiver that April of 2002.

Once on the clock, they changed their minds. That indecisiveness turned out to be costly.

“Kansas City does a great job of preparing for the draft,” the agent said. “They research guys well and are as knowledgeable as any team. But their draft management is horrible. Their decision-making process appears to really suffer. At best, that's an arguable point.

“What hinders teams is not sticking to whatever strategy they intend to use and calling audibles on draft day itself.”

keg in kc · 04-17-2005, 01:22 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree with Teicher's conjecture that we've drafted for immediate need and I think using the Eagles as a point of comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, he does make some salient points, like the idea that we have 'too many cooks spoiling the broth'. When Chuck Cook has spoken on the radio in interviews before previous drafts (I haven't heard him this year), his comments almost never matched our actions, at least in the early rounds. I think Vermeil, Peterson and perhaps some of the assistants are pressing for their guys regardless of the recommendations of the scouting staff. I believe that's probably why we do better in the middle- to late-rounds, when the imput of the scouts is given more weight.

I also think 'luck' is a part of the equation. I really do believe we've had some very bad luck, particularly with injuries. I'd like to think we're due some karmic balance.

Demonpenz · 04-17-2005, 01:23 AM

i can't wait till the chiefs draft a tweener project pick

DenverChief · 04-17-2005, 01:38 AM

Well that settles it...we are drafting QB in the first round

HolmeZz · 04-17-2005, 01:41 AM

Sure this is Teicher? This has Captain Obvious written all over it.

ModSocks · 04-17-2005, 01:42 AM

The chiefs are cursed. There, all done, that explains everything. IT explains the draft and our playoff record. I just watched the end of Fever Pitch, and i thought to myself, "if the chiefs dont make it all the way this year then we are officially cursed and the only way for the curse to be broken is if Drew Barrymore runs across arrowhead pronouncing her love for Tk13." Well, maybe not the Tk13 part, but, what ever. Anyone have any good ideas for a name for our Kansas City curse? I like "The Curse of the 13-3" I pray to never finish 13-3 again.

beer bacon · 04-17-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Well that settles it...we are drafting QB in the first round

I disagree. This draft is perfectly set up for us to draft Thomas Davis.

Good chance that he will be the most talented player left when we draft? Check. This appeases the scouting staff that actually wants to just get the best possible players.

Safety tweener that is being "converted" to another position? Check. This appeases Carl and DV who appear to be converted safety fetishists.

There is actually plenty of evidence that he will be successful at LB? Check. Headhunter type of player that Gunther loves? Check. These appease Gunther by giving him two of the things he really likes on his defenses.

Thomas Davis here we come

tk13 · 04-17-2005, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jesus

The chiefs are cursed. There, all done, that explains everything. IT explains the draft and our playoff record. I just watched the end of Fever Pitch, and i thought to myself, "if the chiefs dont make it all the way this year then we are officially cursed and the only way for the curse to be broken is if Drew Barrymore runs across arrowhead pronouncing her love for Tk13." Well, maybe not the Tk13 part, but, what ever. Anyone have any good ideas for a name for our Kansas City curse? I like "The Curse of the 13-3" I pray to never finish 13-3 again.

For the record, I'm down with that.

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-17-2005, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

I disagree. This draft is perfectly set up for us to draft Thomas Davis.

He's the rich man's donnie Edwards, and I'm not comfortable with that.Since we got Donnie in the mid-round section of the draft when he came up

beer bacon · 04-17-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

He's the rich man's donnie Edwards, and I'm not comfortable with that.Since we got Donnie in the mid-round section of the draft when he came up

How is he similar to Donnie Edwards? I don't know how you can even compare size unless you say Donnie is way undersized and Davis is slightly undersized. 231 pounds is not that light for WSLB. The WSLB is usually the smallest.

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-17-2005, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

How is he similar to Donnie Edwards? I don't know how you can even compare size unless you say Donnie is way undersized and Davis is slightly undersized. 231 pounds is not that light for WSLB. The WSLB is usually the smallest.

good coverage guy, but I'm unsure of his tackling ablity , and how well he'll stay out of oncoming blockers since he's a natural 220-230 guy

beer bacon · 04-17-2005, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

good coverage guy, but I'm unsure of his tackling ablity , and how well he'll stay out of oncoming blockers since he's a natural 220-230 guy

I have read he is a hard hitter in the same vein as Roy Williams. Does he have a reputation for being a drag down tackler?

Uncle_Ted · 04-17-2005, 02:25 AM

DAMMIT CARL!!!

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-17-2005, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

I have read he is a hard hitter in the same vein as Roy Williams. Does he have a reputation for being a drag down tackler?

He was good at LB while he's was at Georgia, real solid player, I would take him for BAA purposes. Though everyone knows I want DJ. He could work but he would need to bulk up because of OL's.

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-17-2005, 02:44 AM

I could live with Thomas Davis

http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/...yers/5053.html

04-17-2005, 01:04 AM
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1882500	Teicher: Chiefs' draft gambles often go bust http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/11413901.htm Chiefs' gambles often go bust For KC, must-have turns into must-go By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star If you're wondering why the Chiefs were 7-9 last year and watched the Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl, the teams' different approaches to the 2002 draft are as good a reason as any. The Chiefs needed defensive tackles to be immediate starters. They drafted Ryan Sims and Eddie Freeman in the first two rounds and hoped they had the problem solved. The Eagles passed on immediate needs and instead saw the bigger picture. They were getting old in the secondary and decided it was time to do something about that, so they drafted a couple of cornerbacks and a safety in the first two rounds. Fast forward to 2005. Sims hasn't lived up to his potential, and Freeman lasted only two miserable seasons before being cut. The Chiefs last year had to sign one defensive tackle, Lional Dalton, and used their top draft pick on another, Junior Siavii, to cover for these failures. Meanwhile, Philadelphia's top 2002 draft picks, cornerbacks Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown and safety Michael Lewis, played little as rookies. But they now are starters for one of the NFL's best defensive teams. The draft has become one big vicious circle for the Chiefs. As this year's talent lottery looms next weekend, the Chiefs have cornerback and linebacker at the top of their must-have list. Why? Because their recent high draft picks at those positions, William Bartee and Julian Battle at cornerback and Kawika Mitchell at linebacker, haven't panned out. * Since Dick Vermeil arrived as head coach in 2001, the Chiefs have continually forced needs in the early rounds of the draft. From Sims and Freeman in 2002 to running back Larry Johnson and Mitchell the following year and Siavii last season, the Chiefs drafted for what they perceived to be a need. They varied from that formula only with the second of last year's two second-round picks, and they eventually might be richly rewarded for it. They went for Kris Wilson, the best available player on their draft board regardless of position. Wilson filled no need. He just gives the Chiefs something they don't have: an H-back/tight end hybrid who can be a problem for opposing defenses to check because of his size and pass-catching ability. The Chiefs had big hopes for Wilson last year before a preseason ankle injury ruined his season. They are optimistic he will rebound to make his contribution this year. Even if he doesn't, the Chiefs won't be stuck in a future draft trying to find someone to take his place. That approach, and the way the Eagles have done it, appears to make more sense. “That makes a lot of sense because the reality is that very few rookies contribute,” said Russ Lande, a former NFL scout who now runs an Internet scouting site at www.gmjr.com. “It's a very small number, so why would you bank on a rookie to come in and help you in his first year? That's an unrealistic expectation. Rookies just struggle in the NFL.” Trying too hard to fill immediate needs appears to be the Chiefs' biggest draft problem, particularly on defense. The Chiefs have only a couple of good, young defensive players in linebacker Scott Fujita and end Jared Allen. Fujita's ankle injury is threatening his season. It's more than a little telling that both were second-day picks (Fujita in the fifth round in 2002, Allen in the fourth last year). Their other recent first-day defensive draft picks (Sims, Mitchell, Battle, Siavii and linebacker Keyaron Fox) don't qualify as good young defensive players, though that could still change. * The Chiefs' scouting staff, including player personnel director Lynn Stiles and college scouting director Chuck Cook, have received plenty of criticism for the poor drafts. But they are generally well-respected around the NFL. “I don't know if there's a direct correlation between the competency of the personnel office and success in the draft,” said a player agent who had dealt with the Chiefs. “That's like saying a really sharp businessman is going to do better in blackjack in Las Vegas than somebody who's not a sharp businessman. There's such a huge unknown factor when you're dealing with a draft choice, and I think the Chiefs have been as unlucky as they've been bad. That luck has to turn sometime, you'd think.” The problem may not be the competency of the people making the Chiefs' draft decisions but the number of them. Stiles, Cook, Vermeil, pro personnel director Bill Kuharich and president/general manager Carl Peterson all have their say. Assistant coaches, particularly coordinators Gunther Cunningham and Al Saunders, have been known to lobby for particular players. That's a lot of voices. “They have so many people at the top that it can be hard sometimes to come to a consensus on a player,” Lande said. “There's the possibility of too many differing opinions.” The Chiefs are Vermeil's third team. Asked how draft preparations are different in Kansas City than Philadelphia or St. Louis, he answered, “There are more people involved in the evaluation process.” Another difference: Vermeil also had the final say with the Eagles and Rams. Peterson is the Chiefs' ultimate decision-maker. “I have no problem with the way it is here, especially in the middle rounds,” Vermeil said. “I've never had to get up on the table and fight for somebody. Carl and I work very well together.” Vermeil wasn't pleased when the Chiefs drafted Johnson. He filled what the Chiefs thought would be a need two years ago because of uncertainty over Priest Holmes' hip injury. But even though he's a backup, Johnson is one of the Chiefs' better draft picks. He played well last season and appears to have a future in Kansas City. “I just felt we needed a defensive player,” Vermeil said. “It was nothing against Larry Johnson. As it looks right now, we did the right thing.” *** Circumstances conspired against the Chiefs in Vermeil's first draft. They lost their second-round draft pick for the right to hire Vermeil and didn't have a quarterback. So they sent their first choice to St. Louis for quarterback Trent Green. The lost draft picks left the Chiefs scrambling at key positions, most notably defensive tackle. So the first time they had their first two picks, the Chiefs attacked the problem. “Initially we were pushed into drafting defensively,” Vermeil said. “Both of our big defensive tackles (Chester McGlockton and Dan Williams) were gone, and we were sort of pressured into forcing some guys into being what you want. “That's why you've got to be careful of moving a person into a rating that allows you to say you're drafting the best player available.” That's probably the biggest reason the Chiefs' defensive tackles haven't worked out. The Chiefs needed them so badly that perspective was lost. The pick that to this day confounds the Chiefs is Sims. He's a starter, but not the dominant player a lot of people expected him to be. “Everybody had him as a can't-miss prospect,” Lande said. “There were even people at North Carolina who would tell you they liked him better than (Julius) Peppers.” The Chiefs repeated the process last year when they needed a defensive tackle again. Siavii wasn't the top available player on the Chiefs' draft board, but they took him anyway. “He's got a way to go, but he showed some great potential,” Vermeil said. “It's going to take time.” Now the Chiefs have a similar issue at cornerback. Bartee has never developed as the Chiefs predicted when they drafted him in the second round in 2000. At least Bartee has been able to play. Battle, the Chiefs' third-round pick in 2003, has struggled so much he can't even get out on the field. Battle, like Bartee and Eric Warfield, played a lot of safety in college and hasn't made the transition. “Battle has tremendous potential,” Vermeil said. “He's not a failure. He's got some maturing to do, like all 23- and 24-year-olds do. I believe he'll be a fine player. If he doesn't become one, it's not because he doesn't have the talent. It'll be because he didn't mature at a fast enough rate to take advantage of his opportunities.” That's been the problem with many of the Chiefs' recent defensive draft picks. It was particularly acute with Freeman. The Chiefs gave up on him quickly for a second-round pick. Maybe the Chiefs should have listened to their first instinct. After getting Sims with their first pick, they were going to draft a wide receiver that April of 2002. Once on the clock, they changed their minds. That indecisiveness turned out to be costly. “Kansas City does a great job of preparing for the draft,” the agent said. “They research guys well and are as knowledgeable as any team. But their draft management is horrible. Their decision-making process appears to really suffer. At best, that's an arguable point. “What hinders teams is not sticking to whatever strategy they intend to use and calling audibles on draft day itself.”
Posts: 54,967

04-17-2005, 01:22 AM	#2
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I'm not sure I'd agree with Teicher's conjecture that we've drafted for immediate need and I think using the Eagles as a point of comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, he does make some salient points, like the idea that we have 'too many cooks spoiling the broth'. When Chuck Cook has spoken on the radio in interviews before previous drafts (I haven't heard him this year), his comments almost never matched our actions, at least in the early rounds. I think Vermeil, Peterson and perhaps some of the assistants are pressing for their guys regardless of the recommendations of the scouting staff. I believe that's probably why we do better in the middle- to late-rounds, when the imput of the scouts is given more weight. I also think 'luck' is a part of the equation. I really do believe we've had some very bad luck, particularly with injuries. I'd like to think we're due some karmic balance.
Posts: 58,682

04-17-2005, 01:23 AM	#3
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $3082136	i can't wait till the chiefs draft a tweener project pick __________________
Posts: 54,280

04-17-2005, 01:38 AM	#4
DenverChief MVP Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rocky Ford Casino cash: $5849867	Well that settles it...we are drafting QB in the first round
Posts: 16,166

04-17-2005, 01:41 AM	#5
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	Sure this is Teicher? This has Captain Obvious written all over it.
Posts: 16,520

04-17-2005, 01:42 AM	#6
ModSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $4204563	The chiefs are cursed. There, all done, that explains everything. IT explains the draft and our playoff record. I just watched the end of Fever Pitch, and i thought to myself, "if the chiefs dont make it all the way this year then we are officially cursed and the only way for the curse to be broken is if Drew Barrymore runs across arrowhead pronouncing her love for Tk13." Well, maybe not the Tk13 part, but, what ever. Anyone have any good ideas for a name for our Kansas City curse? I like "The Curse of the 13-3" I pray to never finish 13-3 again.
Posts: 64,405

04-17-2005, 02:25 AM	#13
Uncle_Ted We're the band! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Chicago Casino cash: $10008915	DAMMIT CARL!!!
Posts: 855

04-17-2005, 02:44 AM	#15
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $812813	I could live with Thomas Davis http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/...yers/5053.html __________________
Posts: 42,113