"The Wire" fans

[Reaper16]

And I still haven't.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

And I still haven't.

You have, you just don't have the discernment to know it.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

You have, you just don't have the discernment to know it.

This is a bald-faced lie.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

This is a bald-faced lie.

Grab your grubby 'The Wire' tube sock and go to town.

Look, you can search back in the archives and I've given some of the most empassioned and detailed hailings of the show anyone has, but credit where credit is due. Fer****ssake, Homicide is basically, The Wire: The Prequel, written with as much passion by the same guy who crafted The Wire.

There's hardly a man on earth who David Simon takes a back seat to, but IMO David Milch is one such man [albeit by the slenderest of margins]. He dinged himself with John From Cincinnati, but Blue and Deadwood stand testiment to his abilities.

Keep it up and you're gonna call out the West Wing acolytes and then we're really gonna have a ruckus. FTR, I liked TWW a lot and watched it all the way through, but I never found it as transcendent as those who truly love it did, mainly because I'd seen Sports Night and could see the strings, which by the time he got around to Studio 60, there was more 'strings' on the screen than plot or character.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Grab your grubby 'The Wire' tube sock and go to town.

*Does so*

*comes back*

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Look, you can search back in the archives and I've given some of the most empassioned and detailed hailings of the show anyone has, but credit where credit is due. Fer****ssake, Homicide is basically, The Wire: The Prequel, written with as much passion by the same guy who crafted The Wire.

There's hardly a man on earth who David Simon takes a back seat to, but IMO David Milch is one such man [albeit by the slenderset of margins]. He dinged himself with John From Cincinnati, but Blue and Deadwood stand testiment to his abilities.

I don't get why Homicide being a prequel to The Wire (I agree that it basically is; The Corner even more so) would in any way diminish what The Wire achieved.

I think Deadwood is ****ing great, but better than The Wire? I can't see how. No show besides The Wire is as relevant to the problems of America; no show packs the kind of documentary-like punch of stark realism that The Wire packs while offering such strong fictionalized/dramatic content to make the bleakness slightly palatable; no show offers such a thorough, sustained examination and argument about its topic as The Wire offers; plenty of shows have great, nuanced, sublimely human characters (in fact man shows have flat-out better characters) but no show has smart, realized characters in addition to the intellectual and artistic merits that The Wire achieves.

In many ways its unfair to compare The Wire to other TV shows; viewers have to approach it in such a different way than they do other television. Its a whole lot more like reading a novel than watching a TV drama.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Keep it up and you're gonna call out the West Wing acolytes and then we're really gonna have a ruckus. FTR, I liked TWW a lot and watched it all the way through, but I never found it as transcendent as those who truly love it did, mainly because I'd seen Sports Night and could see the strings, which by the time he got around to Studio 60, there was more 'strings' on the screen than plot or character.

Oh, I think that I get your perspective now. If a show is more about the intellectual or political argument -- the strings -- than its plot and characters (which The Wire is, overall), then its a weakness in that show for you.

To me, that's like knocking a Bertolt Brecht play for being written in the Epic Theater style. His plays were overtly political to the point where the politics trumps the characters (in a more severe way than The Wire does). That doesn't stop Brecht, for me, from being one of the absolute greats.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Oh, I think that I get your perspective now. If a show is more about the intellectual or political argument -- the strings -- than its plot and characters (which The Wire is, overall), then its a weakness in that show for you.

To me, that's like knocking a Bertolt Brecht play for being written in the Epic Theater style. His plays were overtly political to the point where the politics trumps the characters (in a more severe way than The Wire does). That doesn't stop Brecht, for me, from being one of the absolute greats.

No, the strings in Sorkin's work are his plot devices, the obscure name for something all the principle's know by reference and then get's revealed over the course of the episode, the same stock tempermental and personality squabbles he adpats to sports set, to the oval office, to the set of a 'comedy' show, the solipsizing over 'gems of our culture' etc. Oh, and let's not forget his increasingly strident exorcising of his own personal demons through plot and dialog.

For The Wire -vs- Deadwood, it's like saying whether a perfect filet mignon or a perfect creme brulee is the ultimate repast.

The Wire tied things together over the course of a season, and really rewarded a viewer for paying attention to all the little pieces, but it could slow down in spurts where either the gravity of the scene isn't yet revealed or it dwelled on one or more of the storylines that weren't as resonant with you.

OTOH, Deadwood had plot, scene, cinematography, shock value, and nearly Shakespearian scripting. I never spent a minute watching Deadwood other than bolt upright and engaged, a lofty standard The Wire fell 'just' short of.

I could be cynical of myself and muse that the situations of black folk didn't resonate as much as a bunch of old cowboys, but The Wire was, IMO it's most . . . what, slow? meandering? plodding? [relative terms all] when covering the Sobotka storyline, whereas I could eat up every minute Snoop or Omar were on screen.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Brock

The first 3 seasons were epic. The 4th season is just too depressing to revisit for me, and the 5th didn't really grab my attention all that much.

What the **** is wrong with you?

My favorite Seasons in order - 4, 1, 5, 2, 3 (4 and 1 are basically a tie, as well as 5 and 2)

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I could be cynical of myself and muse that the situations of black folk didn't resonate as much as a bunch of old cowboys, but The Wire was, IMO it's most . . . what, slow? meandering? plodding? [relative terms all] when covering the Sobotka storyline, whereas I could eat up every minute Snoop or Omar were on screen.

The Sobotka storyline was ****ing epic. ****ING EPIC.

Every season was great, and I really liked the Sobotka storyline. Sure it was slow at the beginning of the season, but tell me which season didn't start off slow?

The Sobotka storyline had all the same intellectual intricacies as the rest of the seasons, I think. I can't wait til I get to season two to watch that storyline again.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Keep it up and you're gonna call out the West Wing acolytes and then we're really gonna have a ruckus. FTR, I liked TWW a lot and watched it all the way through, but I never found it as transcendent as those who truly love it did, mainly because I'd seen Sports Night and could see the strings, which by the time he got around to Studio 60, there was more 'strings' on the screen than plot or character.

I watched all of The West Wing last summer cold and had seen some of Spotsnight and all of Studio 60. While it was pretty damn good overall, it was also uneven and agree on the obvious "strings" aspect.