2014 NFL Combine - Players - The DT - Page 4

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Sorry, but find me anyone who tested as well as Donald did at the combine.

1. you try to use combine measurement (i.e. guys running around in shorts) to justify that he is going to be the fastest, most explosive in the NFL?
that is really stupid.

2. I would argue that Hagemon did as well for his weight in the 40.

I dont really care about the 40 yard dash. Defensive lineman arent required to run 40yrds. There are plenty of players with similar weight who ran a similar 10yrd dash.

Some might wonder what tests are important

Quote:

Big hands and long arms are a plus wherever a defensive lineman plays, allowing them to get their hands on an offensive lineman first and either control him or shed the block.

Donald has above average size hands, but below average size arms.

Quote:

10-yard split, Broad Jump, Vertical Leap: I'm lumping these three together, because they all help to illustrate a prospects lower-body explosiveness and his ability to generate power. To me, these numbers are much more important than how many reps they have on the bench press or how fast their 40 is.

there are a bunch of players with similar numbers

Quote:

3-cone drill and Short Shuttle: Defensive linemen need to be able to have short-area quickness. Edge rushers especially need to be able to bend around the corner to get to the quarterback.

not as important for an interior player. (which is what it seems you advocate for Aaron Donald).

Kony Ealy would be an example with a better number.

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 04:49 PM

Here are Defensive lineman, who were drafted in the first 2 rounds in the last 5 years, with arm length of 34" or more, and 33" or below

There are only a couple of 33"- that I would want on my team and only a couple of 34"+ I wouldn't want on my team. note: $ means pro bowler which 34"+ wins 9-2. The pro bowl is very subjective and by no means how talented a player is but I feel it is a good representative of 9/11=81.8% of how much more successful of longer armed d-line are can be than short armed. Longer arm people can get off blocks just so much easier. You can't teach physical traits.

Arm length 34 or higher

2013
Sheldon Richardson
Kawann Short
Ziggy Ansah
Tank Carradine

2012
Chandler Jones
Andre Branch
Fletcher Cox
Michael Brockers

2011
Nick Fairley
Phil Taylor
Aldon Smith $
J.J. Watt $$ d-mvp 12'
Robert Quinn $
Cameron Jordan $
Cameron Heyward
Muhammad Wilkerson

2010
Jason Pierre-Paul $$
Derrick Morgan
Carlos Dunlap
Jared Odrick
Torell Troup
Linval Joseph
Terrence Cody

2009
Evander Hood
Sen'Derrick Marks
Brian Orakpo $$

This year potenital 1/2 round prospects with 34"+ arms
Jadeveon Clowney
Kareem Martin
Chris Smith
Marcus Smith
Stephon Tuitt
Ra'Shede Hageman
Kony Ealy

Arm length 33 or lower

2013
Sharrif Floyd
Johnathan Hankins
Datone Jones

2012
Shea McClellin
Nick Perry
Courtney Upshaw
Vinny Curry
Dontari Poe $
Jerel Worthy

2011
Marvin Austin
Stephen Paea
Brooks Reed

2010
Tyson Alualu
Brian Price
Lamarr Houston

2009
B.J. Raji $
Peria Jerry
Ron Brace
Larry English
David Veikune
Robert Ayers

This year potenital 1/2 round prospects
Jeremiah Attaochu
Scott Crichton
Dee Ford
Aaron Donald
Timmy Jernigan
Ego Ferguson
Louis Nix
Will Sutton
Dominique Easley

planetdoc · 04-03-2014, 08:47 PM

Since people keep comparing the chiefs defense to the jets, I figured it would be a good idea to see what defensive lineman they have drafted since 2007:

Sheldon Richardson - 6'3'', 294 lbs, 34+ arms
Quinton Coples - 6'6'', 290 lbs, 33.25" arms
Muhammad Wilkerson - 6'4'', 315 lbs, 35" arms
Kenrick Ellis - 6'4'', 346 lbs, 35" arms

dont see any short, short armed, undersized players.

planetdoc · 04-14-2014, 10:25 PM

Scouting director: 2014 DL class 'worst I've seen in a long time'

Jadeveon Clowney is far from the only defensive lineman in the 2014 NFL Draft an NFC scouting director doesn't hold in high regard.

The scouting director, who directed harsh criticism toward Clowney, doesn't see much to like in the entire class of defensive linemen this year.

"It's a bad year," he said, according to nj.com. "It's the worst group I've seen in a long time."

As for the top interior defensive linemen this year, Pitt's Aaron Donald ranks 14th, Florida State's Timmy Jernigan ranks 18th, Notre Dame's Louis Nix ranks 28th and Minnesota's Ra'Shede Hageman ranks 30th on Jeremiah's list.

The nj.com story quoted the NFC scouting director as well as an NFC scout an an AFC personnel executive on several of this year's top DL prospects, and Clowney wasn't the only one that received the "lazy" label. Here's a look at some of their comments:

Stephon Tuitt
NFC scouting director: "Lazy. He's an underachiever. I would just say no."
AFC personnel executive: "I think he's better as a 3-4 end, than a 4-3 tackle. He has the size and build for it. But there were games where he just didn't do anything."
Kony Ealy

NFC scouting director: "He's got good size. He's big, fast, strong. There's a lot to work with there. Could he be a 3-4 linebacker? Yeah, he could, but I think he's a 4-3 end. He's a late first-round pick for sure."

Louis Nix
AFC personnel executive: "Classic nose tackle. He reminds me of (Packers NT) B.J. Raji. You put some people around him and he could make an impact."
NFC scout: "I don't see much there. He's not for us."

Aaron Donald
NFC scouting director: "I don't know about this guy. You look at him, and he's too small. But then you watch him and all he does is produce. I'm torn on him."

Ra'Shede Hageman
NFC scouting director: "When he wants to play, he can. You watch him for a couple of plays, and you see things. Then, you don't see him again."
AFC personnel executive: "He's big and talented. But he's lazy."

Timmy Jernigan
NFC scout: "He tapped out in the championship game. On that last Auburn drive, you couldn't find him."
AFC personnel executive: "He can do a lot of things. He's very strong. He's a first-rounder."

Sfeihc · 04-14-2014, 11:09 PM

Question. What do you guys think of Quarles playing the 5-tech?

kccrow · 04-14-2014, 11:09 PM

I'm very much in agreement about not liking this year's crop of defensive lineman. There are a few that I like and a bunch of meh...

**The Franchise** · 04-15-2014, 10:52 AM

Stephon Tuitt is lazy and an underachiever?

planetdoc · 04-15-2014, 03:47 PM

I still think Tuitt and Hagemon would be great fits for the chiefs

htismaqe · 04-15-2014, 03:53 PM

I want nothing to do with Hageman. We've invested enough at the position. Taking him would be one step removed from taking a guard...

O.city · 04-15-2014, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I want nothing to do with Hageman. We've invested enough at the position. Taking him would be one step removed from taking a guard...

I do not share that opinion.

htismaqe · 04-15-2014, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I do no share that opinion.

I do no care.

O.city · 04-15-2014, 04:00 PM

I wouldn't take him because of his off field issues (kinda scary) but not because of said position.

Unlike Romeos 34, we don't really sit in the base much at all, so I think a guy with his talent, if properly cultivated, could be a great asset next to Poe and the other dl

htismaqe · 04-15-2014, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I wouldn't take him because of his off field issues (kinda scary) but not because of said position.

Unlike Romeos 34, we don't really sit in the base much at all, so I think a guy with his talent, if properly cultivated, could be a great asset next to Poe and the other dl

He's a rotational player at best and a guy that won't see the field because of his attitude at worst.

We need IMPACT in this draft. Rashede Hageman is going to be limited in his ability to be that solely because of his position.

EDIT: Vance Walker can provide everything Hageman can.

O.city · 04-15-2014, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He's a rotational player at best and a guy that won't see the field because of his attitude at worst.

We need IMPACT in this draft. Rashede Hageman is going to be limited in his ability to be that solely because of his position.

EDIT: Vance Walker can provide everything Hageman can.

Year 1, probably.

In future years I dunno.

htismaqe · 04-15-2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Year 1, probably.

In future years I dunno.

The difference between the 5th-best 3-4 DE in the NFL and the 15th-best isn't even visible to the average fan's eye.

Our efforts need to be focused on getting the absolute most impact out of each and every pick.

04-03-2014, 04:49 PM	#2
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	Here are Defensive lineman, who were drafted in the first 2 rounds in the last 5 years, with arm length of 34" or more, and 33" or below There are only a couple of 33"- that I would want on my team and only a couple of 34"+ I wouldn't want on my team. note: $ means pro bowler which 34"+ wins 9-2. The pro bowl is very subjective and by no means how talented a player is but I feel it is a good representative of 9/11=81.8% of how much more successful of longer armed d-line are can be than short armed. Longer arm people can get off blocks just so much easier. You can't teach physical traits. Arm length 34 or higher 2013 Sheldon Richardson Kawann Short Ziggy Ansah Tank Carradine 2012 Chandler Jones Andre Branch Fletcher Cox Michael Brockers 2011 Nick Fairley Phil Taylor Aldon Smith $ J.J. Watt $$ d-mvp 12' Robert Quinn $ Cameron Jordan $ Cameron Heyward Muhammad Wilkerson 2010 Jason Pierre-Paul $$ Derrick Morgan Carlos Dunlap Jared Odrick Torell Troup Linval Joseph Terrence Cody 2009 Evander Hood Sen'Derrick Marks Brian Orakpo $$ This year potenital 1/2 round prospects with 34"+ arms Jadeveon Clowney Kareem Martin Chris Smith Marcus Smith Stephon Tuitt Ra'Shede Hageman Kony Ealy Arm length 33 or lower 2013 Sharrif Floyd Johnathan Hankins Datone Jones 2012 Shea McClellin Nick Perry Courtney Upshaw Vinny Curry Dontari Poe $ Jerel Worthy 2011 Marvin Austin Stephen Paea Brooks Reed 2010 Tyson Alualu Brian Price Lamarr Houston 2009 B.J. Raji $ Peria Jerry Ron Brace Larry English David Veikune Robert Ayers This year potenital 1/2 round prospects Jeremiah Attaochu Scott Crichton Dee Ford Aaron Donald Timmy Jernigan Ego Ferguson Louis Nix Will Sutton Dominique Easley
Posts: 2,174

04-03-2014, 08:47 PM	#3
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	Since people keep comparing the chiefs defense to the jets, I figured it would be a good idea to see what defensive lineman they have drafted since 2007: Sheldon Richardson - 6'3'', 294 lbs, 34+ arms Quinton Coples - 6'6'', 290 lbs, 33.25" arms Muhammad Wilkerson - 6'4'', 315 lbs, 35" arms Kenrick Ellis - 6'4'', 346 lbs, 35" arms dont see any short, short armed, undersized players.
Posts: 2,174

04-14-2014, 10:25 PM	#4
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	Scouting director: 2014 DL class 'worst I've seen in a long time' Jadeveon Clowney is far from the only defensive lineman in the 2014 NFL Draft an NFC scouting director doesn't hold in high regard. The scouting director, who directed harsh criticism toward Clowney, doesn't see much to like in the entire class of defensive linemen this year. "It's a bad year," he said, according to nj.com. "It's the worst group I've seen in a long time." As for the top interior defensive linemen this year, Pitt's Aaron Donald ranks 14th, Florida State's Timmy Jernigan ranks 18th, Notre Dame's Louis Nix ranks 28th and Minnesota's Ra'Shede Hageman ranks 30th on Jeremiah's list. The nj.com story quoted the NFC scouting director as well as an NFC scout an an AFC personnel executive on several of this year's top DL prospects, and Clowney wasn't the only one that received the "lazy" label. Here's a look at some of their comments: Stephon Tuitt NFC scouting director: "Lazy. He's an underachiever. I would just say no." AFC personnel executive: "I think he's better as a 3-4 end, than a 4-3 tackle. He has the size and build for it. But there were games where he just didn't do anything." Kony Ealy NFC scouting director: "He's got good size. He's big, fast, strong. There's a lot to work with there. Could he be a 3-4 linebacker? Yeah, he could, but I think he's a 4-3 end. He's a late first-round pick for sure." Louis Nix AFC personnel executive: "Classic nose tackle. He reminds me of (Packers NT) B.J. Raji. You put some people around him and he could make an impact." NFC scout: "I don't see much there. He's not for us." Aaron Donald NFC scouting director: "I don't know about this guy. You look at him, and he's too small. But then you watch him and all he does is produce. I'm torn on him." Ra'Shede Hageman NFC scouting director: "When he wants to play, he can. You watch him for a couple of plays, and you see things. Then, you don't see him again." AFC personnel executive: "He's big and talented. But he's lazy." Timmy Jernigan NFC scout: "He tapped out in the championship game. On that last Auburn drive, you couldn't find him." AFC personnel executive: "He can do a lot of things. He's very strong. He's a first-rounder."
Posts: 2,174

04-14-2014, 11:09 PM	#5
Sfeihc It's All Good Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $10010133	Question. What do you guys think of Quarles playing the 5-tech?
Posts: 3,441

04-14-2014, 11:09 PM	#6
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3067078	I'm very much in agreement about not liking this year's crop of defensive lineman. There are a few that I like and a bunch of meh...
Posts: 12,680

04-15-2014, 10:52 AM	#7
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2925047	Stephon Tuitt is lazy and an underachiever?
Posts: 92,269

04-15-2014, 03:47 PM	#8
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	I still think Tuitt and Hagemon would be great fits for the chiefs
Posts: 2,174

04-15-2014, 03:53 PM	#9
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	I want nothing to do with Hageman. We've invested enough at the position. Taking him would be one step removed from taking a guard...
Posts: 100,022

04-15-2014, 04:00 PM	#12
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2574064	I wouldn't take him because of his off field issues (kinda scary) but not because of said position. Unlike Romeos 34, we don't really sit in the base much at all, so I think a guy with his talent, if properly cultivated, could be a great asset next to Poe and the other dl
Posts: 81,399