If Jesus were to ever return... how would anyone know it was him? - Page 6

**jAZ** · 02-20-2007, 12:02 AM

I'm pretty sure this guy isn't it, but there's a sizeable group that seems to think he is. Seems like all you have to do is be believable and with enough followers... you create your own "reality".

If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/16/mia...her/index.html

Pastor with 666 tattoo claims to be divine
POSTED: 2:08 p.m. EST, February 19, 2007

By John Zarrella and Patrick Oppmann
CNN

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- The minister has the number 666 tattooed on his arm.

But Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not your typical minister. De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God.

"The spirit that is in me is the same spirit that was in Jesus of Nazareth," de Jesus says.

De Jesus' claims of divinity have angered Christian leaders, who say he is a fake. Religious experts say he may be something much more dangerous, a cult leader who really believes he is God. (Watch followers get 666 tattoos for their leader )

"He's in their heads, he's inside the heads of those people," says Prof. Daniel Alvarez, a religion expert at Florida International University who has debated some of de Jesus' followers.

"De Jesus speaks with a kind of conviction that makes me consider him more like David Koresh or Jim Jones."

Is de Jesus really a cult leader like David Koresh, who died with more than 70 of his Branch Davidian followers in a fiery end to a standoff with federal authorities, or Jim Jones, the founder of the Peoples Temple who committed mass suicide with 900 followers in 1978?

Prophets 'spoke to me'
De Jesus and his believers say their church -- "Creciendo en Gracia," Spanish for "Growing in grace" -- is misunderstood. Followers of the movement say they have proof that their minister is divine and that their church will one day soon be a major faith in the world.

But even de Jesus concedes that he is an unlikely leader of a church that claims thousands of members in more than 30 countries.

De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict.

De Jesus says he learned he was Jesus reincarnate when he was visited in a dream by angels.

"The prophets, they spoke about me. It took me time to learn that, but I am what they were expecting, what they have been expecting for 2,000 years," de Jesus says.

The church that he began building 20 years ago in Miami resembles no other:

Followers have protested Christian churches in Miami and Latin America, disrupting services and smashing crosses and statues of Jesus.

De Jesus preaches there is no devil and no sin. His followers, he says, literally can do no wrong in God's eyes.

The church calls itself the "Government of God on Earth" and uses a seal similar to the United States.

Doing God's work with a Lexus and Rolex
If Creciendo en Gracia is an atypical religious group, de Jesus also does not fit the mold of the average church leader. De Jesus flouts traditional vows of poverty.

He says he has a church-paid salary of $136,000 but lives more lavishly than that. During an interview, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex to a CNN crew and said he has three just like them. He travels in armored Lexuses and BMWs, he says, for his safety. All are gifts from his devoted followers.

And what about the tattoo of 666 on his arm?

Although it's a number usually associated with Satan, not the son of God, de Jesus says that 666 and the Antichrist are, like him, misunderstood.

The Antichrist is not the devil, de Jesus tells his congregation; he's the being who replaces Jesus on Earth.

"Antichrist is the best person in the world," he says. "Antichrist means don't put your eyes on Jesus because Jesus of Nazareth wasn't a Christian. Antichrist means do not put your eyes on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Put it on Jesus after the cross."

And de Jesus says that means him.

So far, de Jesus says that his flock hasn't been scared off by his claims of being the Antichrist. In a show of the sway he holds over the group, 30 members of his congregation Tuesday went to a tattoo parlor to have 666 also permanently etched onto their skin.

He may wield influence over them, but his followers say don't expect them to go the way of people who believed in David Koresh and Jim Jones. Just by finding de Jesus, they say, they have achieved their purpose.

"If somebody tells us drink some Kool-Aid and we'll go to heaven, that's not true. We are already in heavenly places," follower Martita Roca told CNN after having 666 tattooed onto her ankle.

FAX · 02-21-2007, 02:14 PM

Lens Jesus.

"Don't Miss Our Eye For An Eye Specials Every Thursday!"

FAX

CoMoChief · 02-21-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Lens Jesus.

"Don't Miss Our Eye For An Eye Specials Every Thursday!"

FAX

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.

Hey, we'll determine whats funny or not.

Besides, we'll know it will be Jesus because of the insane pure white aura surrounding him, and all the angels flying around him.

Peace will be known throughout, He'll judge the living and the dead, every horrible thing will be stricken down, the Bible says this...its true.

All you naysayers will be having a sin orgy in Hades only it wont be cool to be a participant...your soul will be consumed by flame and tortured for eternity...your nightmares and demons will rip and tear your soul constantly. Every horrible thought you have hadagainst someone will be back on you tenfold...this is why you must follow the ten commandments.

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye.

And you know that he'll just appear and disappear with all the good people?

What are you going to do when HE comes back and wipes the slate clean, inherits a country and no one leaves Earth..and he brings heaven here

What are your thoughts on heaven? How about this...Maybe we are living in HELL as we speak and Heaven is really on earth, but we have to be dead to see it...and if you take the fast track there by suicide then you'll be in hell.

or

Maybe we're already dead and we're just looking back..

CoMoChief · 02-21-2007, 03:09 PM

Dear 8 pound, 6 ounce baby Jesus...

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Mr. Cooter, I think that song sucks.

SInce when was it right for Christians to put down others opinions??

or better yet you hipocrite bastard

"Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ - Today at 08:33 AM CoMoChief, you are stupid. "

Dont judge others lest you be judged yourself....

El Jefe · 02-21-2007, 03:38 PM

Redrum_69 that is really really weak.

El Jefe · 02-21-2007, 03:40 PM

Redrum_69 go ahead and judge me dont chastise me like you are an authority figure over me, because I dont give a crap if you think I am a hypocrite because I called someone stupid, wow he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Redrum_69 go ahead and judge me dont chastise me like you are an authority figure over me, because I dont give a crap if you think I am a hypocrite because I called someone stupid, wow he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.

I'm not the one on a soapbox preaching about being a certain way and then being a twofaced hipocrite and slamming two other people.

I never said I was perfect, either.

All I'm trying to say is stfu already, otherwise i'll give you a your mom that i been saving up for crazycoffey...that will put you over the edge and most likely get me banned..thats why i been waiting

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Redrum_69 that is really really weak.

Again with the judging.

El Jefe · 02-21-2007, 03:53 PM

Im being two faced because I called someone stupid and said I didnt like that guys song.Wow.

El Jefe · 02-21-2007, 03:54 PM

Redrum_69 again with the judging, how is that judging I said that is weak meaning it is a weak statement. Dont tell me about the spec in my eye when there is a plank in yours.

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Dont tell me about the spec in my eye when there is a plank in yours.

dont tell me about the plank in mine otherwise we'll talk about the whole lumber yard between your moms legs

Redrum_69 · 02-21-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Im being two faced because I called someone stupid and said I didnt like that guys song.Wow.

no, you are being two faced for being nice and saying your a Christian...then in other posts you are contradicting yourself

youre flawed just like everyone else

El Jefe · 02-21-2007, 04:03 PM

And you were just making a statement about me being a bad person. You just told me I was a hypocrite and two faced because I called someone stupid and then you are back to you STUPID mom jokes. You are definetely not someone to chastize other people at all.

02-20-2007, 12:02 AM
jAZ Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Casino cash: $9847493	If Jesus were to ever return... how would anyone know it was him? I'm pretty sure this guy isn't it, but there's a sizeable group that seems to think he is. Seems like all you have to do is be believable and with enough followers... you create your own "reality". If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/16/mia...her/index.html Pastor with 666 tattoo claims to be divine POSTED: 2:08 p.m. EST, February 19, 2007 By John Zarrella and Patrick Oppmann CNN MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- The minister has the number 666 tattooed on his arm. But Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not your typical minister. De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God. "The spirit that is in me is the same spirit that was in Jesus of Nazareth," de Jesus says. De Jesus' claims of divinity have angered Christian leaders, who say he is a fake. Religious experts say he may be something much more dangerous, a cult leader who really believes he is God. (Watch followers get 666 tattoos for their leader ) "He's in their heads, he's inside the heads of those people," says Prof. Daniel Alvarez, a religion expert at Florida International University who has debated some of de Jesus' followers. "De Jesus speaks with a kind of conviction that makes me consider him more like David Koresh or Jim Jones." Is de Jesus really a cult leader like David Koresh, who died with more than 70 of his Branch Davidian followers in a fiery end to a standoff with federal authorities, or Jim Jones, the founder of the Peoples Temple who committed mass suicide with 900 followers in 1978? Prophets 'spoke to me' De Jesus and his believers say their church -- "Creciendo en Gracia," Spanish for "Growing in grace" -- is misunderstood. Followers of the movement say they have proof that their minister is divine and that their church will one day soon be a major faith in the world. But even de Jesus concedes that he is an unlikely leader of a church that claims thousands of members in more than 30 countries. De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict. De Jesus says he learned he was Jesus reincarnate when he was visited in a dream by angels. "The prophets, they spoke about me. It took me time to learn that, but I am what they were expecting, what they have been expecting for 2,000 years," de Jesus says. The church that he began building 20 years ago in Miami resembles no other: Followers have protested Christian churches in Miami and Latin America, disrupting services and smashing crosses and statues of Jesus. De Jesus preaches there is no devil and no sin. His followers, he says, literally can do no wrong in God's eyes. The church calls itself the "Government of God on Earth" and uses a seal similar to the United States. Doing God's work with a Lexus and Rolex If Creciendo en Gracia is an atypical religious group, de Jesus also does not fit the mold of the average church leader. De Jesus flouts traditional vows of poverty. He says he has a church-paid salary of $136,000 but lives more lavishly than that. During an interview, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex to a CNN crew and said he has three just like them. He travels in armored Lexuses and BMWs, he says, for his safety. All are gifts from his devoted followers. And what about the tattoo of 666 on his arm? Although it's a number usually associated with Satan, not the son of God, de Jesus says that 666 and the Antichrist are, like him, misunderstood. The Antichrist is not the devil, de Jesus tells his congregation; he's the being who replaces Jesus on Earth. "Antichrist is the best person in the world," he says. "Antichrist means don't put your eyes on Jesus because Jesus of Nazareth wasn't a Christian. Antichrist means do not put your eyes on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Put it on Jesus after the cross." And de Jesus says that means him. So far, de Jesus says that his flock hasn't been scared off by his claims of being the Antichrist. In a show of the sway he holds over the group, 30 members of his congregation Tuesday went to a tattoo parlor to have 666 also permanently etched onto their skin. He may wield influence over them, but his followers say don't expect them to go the way of people who believed in David Koresh and Jim Jones. Just by finding de Jesus, they say, they have achieved their purpose. "If somebody tells us drink some Kool-Aid and we'll go to heaven, that's not true. We are already in heavenly places," follower Martita Roca told CNN after having 666 tattooed onto her ankle.
Posts: 24,799

02-21-2007, 02:14 PM	#76
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Lens Jesus. "Don't Miss Our Eye For An Eye Specials Every Thursday!" FAX
Posts: 44,492

02-21-2007, 03:09 PM	#80
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8052254	Dear 8 pound, 6 ounce baby Jesus...
Posts: 39,156

02-21-2007, 03:38 PM	#82
El Jefe Don't tread on me. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Where the peaches grow Casino cash: $9030572	Redrum_69 that is really really weak.
Posts: 8,540

02-21-2007, 03:40 PM	#83
El Jefe Don't tread on me. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Where the peaches grow Casino cash: $9030572	Redrum_69 go ahead and judge me dont chastise me like you are an authority figure over me, because I dont give a crap if you think I am a hypocrite because I called someone stupid, wow he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.
Posts: 8,540

02-21-2007, 03:53 PM	#86
El Jefe Don't tread on me. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Where the peaches grow Casino cash: $9030572	Im being two faced because I called someone stupid and said I didnt like that guys song.Wow.
Posts: 8,540

02-21-2007, 03:54 PM	#87
El Jefe Don't tread on me. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Where the peaches grow Casino cash: $9030572	Redrum_69 again with the judging, how is that judging I said that is weak meaning it is a weak statement. Dont tell me about the spec in my eye when there is a plank in yours.
Posts: 8,540

02-21-2007, 04:03 PM	#90
El Jefe Don't tread on me. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Where the peaches grow Casino cash: $9030572	And you were just making a statement about me being a bad person. You just told me I was a hypocrite and two faced because I called someone stupid and then you are back to you STUPID mom jokes. You are definetely not someone to chastize other people at all.
Posts: 8,540