Don Banks from SI on Chiefs Coaching/GM

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Do you read what you write?

Who are the players whom Haley "improved"? Bowe? Was a stud before Haley arrived. DJ? Potentially true. Still a stud this year, so definitely not a "loser." Hali? See DJ. Flowers? Nope. Stud before Haley arrived. Albert? Nope. Good before Haley arrived and good after.

Oh, you meant "losers" in a general sense? Well that was true during Haley's tenure, too.

Ironic that you say this is "exaggeration planet" after making such an inaccurate and hyperbolic initial statement.

Albert wasn't "good" before Haley arrived. He played in a pistol offense that masked the fact that he had no technique. Haley's decision to force Albert to cut weight and coach up on technique was a ballsy move, and a terrific move, and Albert progressed from a swinging gate to a top-tier left tackle. The idea that Bowe was a stud that didn't improve is nonsense. He was a good player when Haley got here. But he changed from a guy who was 10 lbs overweight in training camp to a guy who started working for months in an intense offseason training program with Larry Fitzgerald, which never happens unless Haley was there. And guess who started losing focus and dropping the easy ones again this year? Bowe. DJ went from a freelancer, to a focused missile under Haley, to a freelancer again under RAC who plays with no discipline. Eric Berry improved to the point of an almost dominating performance against Baltimore, then... you guessed it, became a freelancer again. Hali was asked to cut weight and was in tremendous physical condition, and guess what, he regressed under Romeo. Young guys like Asamoah and Hudson and Houston... you could see steady progression in these guys (Houston was a complete nonfactor early in the year). Jovan Belcher... limited by talent, but improved every year. Tyson Jackson -- played about to his ceiling under Haley.

By the way, all these guys got far worse after RAC took over in 2013. The team was in peak physical condition. You had guys working their tail off in practice. And you had freelancers playing with discipline. Last year, we had people laughably claiming RAC deserved credit for that and Haley didn't. How well is that theory holding up now?

It is completely exaggeration to say nobody got better. Apart from maybe McCluster, name another player on this team who didn't reach his potential? And Cassel doesn't count, because he didn't have talent.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Albert wasn't "good" before Haley arrived.

Guess where most people will stop reading.

I know, I know. Haley, our last coaching messiah, broke Bowe down to build him back up into a 1000-yard receiver who still has lapses in concentration.

And the team lost 467 pounds collectively! No sizzle! The right 53!

Cassel was clearly the great albatross that doomed what would otherwise be the brilliant coaching career of the best golfer in the NFL. But I have this one lingering question: If Haley was building everyone up, and all the players were ascending under him, why did the team play so poorly in '11? Fresh off a promising playoff performance in '10, that team was poised for greatness.

He was a piece of ****ing shit HC. This doesn't necessarily mean that everything he touched turned to ****--after all, the man isn't Pioli--but he wasn't anywhere close to being good.

But we can continue to blame everyone else for Haley's failings. No way. No ****ing way was he really as bad as the results suggest. The stats lie.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Guess where most people will stop reading.

Which is exactly why you lose credibility. Three years ago, we were talking about drafting Russell Okung and moving Albert to Guard because he just wasn't good enough to play left tackle. Today, he's a top tier left tackle and people want to franchise tag him and are enraged at the thought that Pioli may choose to not re-sign him. He improved dramatically. It's ridiculous to suggest he's not significantly better than he was as a rookie.

I know, I know. Haley, our last coaching messiah, broke Bowe down to build him back up into a 1000-yard receiver who still has lapses in concentration.

Bowe didn't take the game seriously enough to even show up to camp in shape. He had to cheat to cut weight. Under Haley, he willingly began committing to the game, training on his off-time with Fitzgerald, and hitting peak physical condition. Those things never happened before Haley got there. He was a good receiver before Haley, but his work ethic and focus improved dramatically.

And the team lost 467 pounds collectively! No sizzle! The right 53!

And they never showed up to camp out of shape. Albert played a different brand of football and it's turned him into a top-notch left tackle. Hali lost 10-20 lbs and became a pro bowl OLB. Dorsey never showed up to camp out of shape again. Name one player that got worse because Haley asked them to cut weight? CP threw a shit fit that Haley would dare ask Albert to play at such an ungodly low weight. Guess who was wrong on that.

Cassel was clearly the great albatross that doomed what would otherwise be the brilliant coaching career of the best golfer in the NFL. But I have this one lingering question: If Haley was building everyone up, and all the players were ascending under him, why did the team play so poorly in '11? Fresh off a promising playoff performance in '10, that team was poised for greatness.

You don't think that has anything to do with the idea that our QB was so bad that our entire offense had to revolve around Jamaal Charles, a player who only played 1 game in 2011? Or the fact that they had to play 4 games under Tyler Palko (a QB that was only there because Pioli refused to listen to guys like Haley who were screaming for QB depth?)

He was a piece of ****ing shit HC. This doesn't necessarily mean that everything he touched turned to ****--after all, the man isn't Pioli--but he wasn't anywhere close to being good.

But we can continue to blame everyone else for Haley's failings. No way. No ****ing way was he really as bad as the results suggest. The stats lie.

We've acknowledged he had a piece of shit GM who dictated a shitty QB decision. We've acknowledged that no team can win these days without a franchise QB (let alone a good QB). I have acknowledged Haley's shortcomings. I don't know if he would become a better coach with a better GM. But the level of blame that gets put on his shoulder is ridiculous, as is the refusal to give him credit where credit is due. This place is exaggeration planet. They exaggerate how bad people they hate are, and exaggerate how great people they like are. Haley is no exception.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Which is exactly why you lose credibility. Three years ago, we were talking about drafting Russell Okung and moving Albert to Guard because he just wasn't good enough to play left tackle.

Irony is nonstop. "We" sure as **** were not talking about moving Albert to guard, and "we" sure as **** were not talking about drafting Okung.

The above is a completely invented narrative for many of the posters on this board, including the vast majority of posters whom I interact with on this site. Hell, we've largely lambasted any suggestions of moving Albert, much like we used to mock individuals who decried the play of Carr.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Irony is nonstop. "We" sure as **** were not talking about moving Albert to guard, and "we" sure as **** were not talking about drafting Okung.

The above is a completely invented narrative for many of the posters on this board, including the vast majority of posters whom I interact with on this site. Hell, we've largely lambasted any suggestions of moving Albert, much like we used to mock individuals who decried the play of Carr.

No, it isn't invented. Nobody in their right mind would have called for Albert to be franchised. He was never crucified as cassel was, but he wasn't popular on the board either. I know, because I had to set a lot of people straight preaching patience on the guy because he was changing positions.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No, it isn't invented. Nobody in their right mind would have called for Albert to be franchised. He was never crucified as cassel was, but he wasn't popular on the board either. I know, because I had to set a lot of people straight preaching patience on the guy because he was changing positions.

There are always True Fans calling for LTs at the top of the draft.

This whole exchange is laughable, and I'm done debating the merits of a shitty HC. Teflon Todd with the tastiest rod in town.

[FRCDFED]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Which is exactly why you lose credibility. Three years ago, we were talking about drafting Russell Okung and moving Albert to Guard because he just wasn't good enough to play left tackle. Today, he's a top tier left tackle and people want to franchise tag him and are enraged at the thought that Pioli may choose to not re-sign him. He improved dramatically. It's ridiculous to suggest he's not significantly better than he was as a rookie.


Bowe didn't take the game seriously enough to even show up to camp in shape. He had to cheat to cut weight. Under Haley, he willingly began committing to the game, training on his off-time with Fitzgerald, and hitting peak physical condition. Those things never happened before Haley got there. He was a good receiver before Haley, but his work ethic and focus improved dramatically.



And they never showed up to camp out of shape. Albert played a different brand of football and it's turned him into a top-notch left tackle. Hali lost 10-20 lbs and became a pro bowl OLB. Dorsey never showed up to camp out of shape again. Name one player that got worse because Haley asked them to cut weight? CP threw a shit fit that Haley would dare ask Albert to play at such an ungodly low weight. Guess who was wrong on that.


You don't think that has anything to do with the idea that our QB was so bad that our entire offense had to revolve around Jamaal Charles, a player who only played 1 game in 2011? Or the fact that they had to play 4 games under Tyler Palko (a QB that was only there because Pioli refused to listen to guys like Haley who were screaming for QB depth?)



We've acknowledged he had a piece of shit GM who dictated a shitty QB decision. We've acknowledged that no team can win these days without a franchise QB (let alone a good QB). I have acknowledged Haley's shortcomings. I don't know if he would become a better coach with a better GM. But the level of blame that gets put on his shoulder is ridiculous, as is the refusal to give him credit where credit is due. This place is exaggeration planet. They exaggerate how bad people they hate are, and exaggerate how great people they like are. Haley is no exception.

This

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You don't think that has anything to do with the idea that our QB was so bad that our entire offense had to revolve around Jamaal Charles, a player who only played 1 game in 2011? Or the fact that they had to play 4 games under Tyler Palko (a QB that was only there because Pioli refused to listen to guys like Haley who were screaming for QB depth?)

He didn't HAVE to play 4 games with Palko.

Mr. Offensive Geni(0)us chose to...

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Rausch

He didn't HAVE to play 4 games with Palko.

Mr. Offensive Geni(0)us chose to...

With all respect, Mr. Rausch, I don't believe that is the case.

He had to play somebody. He put Orton in as soon as he could and he got hurt on his first play. Evidence suggests that Haley was told not to play Stanzi under any circumstances. Who was left?

There is also good reason to believe (Babb's report) that Haley wanted Hasselbeck and was told by Pioli to go pound sand.

To me, it appears that Pioli painted the entire franchise in a corner with Cassel. That, I believe, is the root problem in respect to Palko, et al.

FAX

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by FAX

With all respect, Mr. Rausch, I don't believe that is the case.

He had to play somebody. He put Orton in as soon as he could and he got hurt on his first play. Evidence suggests that Haley was told not to play Stanzi under any circumstances. Who was left?

There is also good reason to believe (Babb's report) that Haley wanted Hasselbeck and was told by Pioli to go pound sand.

To me, it appears that Pioli painted the entire franchise in a corner with Cassel. That, I believe, is the root problem in respect to Palko, et al.

FAX

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by FAX

With all respect, Mr. Rausch, I don't believe that is the case.

He had to play somebody. He put Orton in as soon as he could and he got hurt on his first play. Evidence suggests that Haley was told not to play Stanzi under any circumstances. Who was left?

There is also good reason to believe (Babb's report) that Haley wanted Hasselbeck and was told by Pioli to go pound sand.

To me, it appears that Pioli painted the entire franchise in a corner with Cassel. That, I believe, is the root problem in respect to Palko, et al.

FAX

He put Orton in and immediately ran one of the longest-developing plays in the game of football, against one of the best pass-rushing defenses in all of football.

He's either a ****ing moron or he was TRYING to hurt Orton in order to have an excuse to go back to Palko.

[BigRock]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He put Orton in and immediately ran one of the longest-developing plays in the game of football, against one of the best pass-rushing defenses in all of football.

Bears were 19th in sacks, 19th in DVOA QB pressure.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by FAX

With all respect, Mr. Rausch, I don't believe that is the case.

Orton was healthy and sitting while Palko stunk it up.

Originally Posted by FAX

To me, it appears that Pioli painted the entire franchise in a corner with Cassel. That, I believe, is the root problem in respect to Palko, et al.

FAX

I don't see the connection here...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Orton was healthy and sitting while Palko stunk it up.





I don't see the connection here...

For half a game against the Bears. Unless you're suggesting it was a terrible decision to not start Orton on Sunday against Pittsburgh when he didn't report to the Chiefs until mid-day that Friday.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Orton was healthy and sitting while Palko stunk it up.

People keep saying this, but it's not completely true.

Orton didn't make it to KC until 3 days before the Steelers game.

The only mistake Haley made was not starting him in Chicago. He dislocated his finger in Chicago.

He couldn't play vs the Jets. Finger.

He played the next game vs GB.