Russell Wilson

[tk13]

Originally Posted by Capt Tasty Cheeks

I don't know who I'd take...Rodgers or Wilson.

Honest to God.

Those are the two QB's I'd pick first to build a team around.

I'll take Luck.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by tk13

I'll take Luck.

Wilson had a better year against tougher competition, but he did have a better defense and running back, although Luck's receivers are better.

Luck is obviously the more traditional player, and he showed he can take a beating and still play well. I think it's pretty close.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Wilson had a better year against tougher competition, but he did have a better defense and running back, although Luck's receivers are better.

Luck is obviously the more traditional player, and he showed he can take a beating and still play well. I think it's pretty close.

Seattle had a top 5 defense and running game. There's a pretty good history of rookie QB's doing well in those situations (Roethlisberger, Sanchez). Wilson had a bigger part in their success than those other guys though, no doubt.

But Luck had nothing like that, set a rookie passing record for yards, had seven 4th quarter game winning drives, and led a 2-14 team to 11-5. People are so ga-ga with the running QB's they don't realize the amazing things he did this year. I'm pretty sure Luck led the league in 4th quarter winning drives. That's amazing.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by tk13

Seattle had a top 5 defense and running game. There's a pretty good history of rookie QB's doing well in those situations (Roethlisberger, Sanchez). Wilson had a bigger part in their success than those other guys though, no doubt.

But Luck had nothing like that, set a rookie passing record for yards, had seven 4th quarter game winning drives, and led a 2-14 team to 11-5. People are so ga-ga with the running QB's they don't realize the amazing things he did this year. I'm pretty sure Luck led the league in 4th quarter winning drives. That's amazing.

There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.

This wasn't even meant to be an amusing post and I'm chuckling.

Mother****ing 'Hamas' Jenkins.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.

Thank you. I am going to attach this to every thread where people keep touting Arians as a top of list head coach candidate.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.

I completely agree with all this, and I guess you weren't around... but you could find posts where I make several of these points over the last month or so. They might have been one of the worst playoff teams of any record of all time.

But they still made it. Part of it was the lack of decent teams of the AFC. But part of it is having a QB who played well under pressure for the most part. They are not a good team, but Luck carried them to 11-5. I think that actually aids my point.

If you gave Luck a top 5 running back and defense, he may have been good enough to get to a Super Bowl THIS year. He is a robot put on this earth to play QB.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by tk13

I'll take Luck.

I like Andrew Luck. He shakes off blocks - Big guy, good presence on the field - tight spiral - he can move with ease in the pocket. throws with accuracy

just my opinion.

[Sorter]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I like Luck. He shakes off blocks - Big guy, good presence on the field - tight spiral - he can move with ease in the pocket. throws with accuracy

just my opinion.

I like them all.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Sorter

I like them all.

The question becomes, which quarterback would you want to build your team around?



From Hank Gola's article in the NY Daily News on Thursday:

Quarterbacks like Griffin III, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick and Cam Newton – guys with both cannons and jets – all have an indefinite expiration date, a window, perhaps, of when they'll be their best. The more a QB runs, the more he's exposed to injury – knees, concussions and otherwise.

But for football fans in general, everybody got screwed when the Redskins mishandled RG3's knee injury. Hopefully, RG3, motivated athlete that he is, pulls an Adrian Peterson and comes back from surgery as good as new. But if he doesn't, we've all been denied seeing the best of a once-in-a-lifetime player.

That's the shame of it, that perhaps we got just a glimpse of his potential for just a stretch of his rookie season.

Thankfully, Wilson, Kaepernick and Newton have avoided injuries so far, but each time one takes off and a bigger defender is bearing down on them, their fans have to be holding their breaths.

Running quarterbacks are nothing new of course. They used to be called scramblers. Gil Brandt, the former Cowboys GM, joked that they'd hold up a sign "Stop, Roger, Stop" whenever Roger Staubach pulled in the football. But somehow guys like Staubach and Fran Tarkenton avoided serious knee injuries. Quarterbacks, in general, did. Joe Namath was an exception.

Then, as the speed and size of the players increased, so did the injury factor. Randall Cunningham never was the same after he blew out his knee the first week of the 1991 season. With Michael Vick, it's been more of a cumulative effect that has worn down his body and battered his brain.

Vick was still an exception when he came out of Virginia Tech. He debuted with the Falcons as the first modern video-game quarterback. Now, with the influx of the quarterback/athlete and the threat that he can bring to an offense, these guys are going to be easier to find – and more difficult to measure.

When the Colts were deciding between Griffin III and Andrew Luck as the No. 1 pick, they knew either one could turn around their franchise. They went with Luck in part because, as a more traditional pocket passer, he'd have the longer career.

The question will come up again when Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel comes up for the draft. Plenty of teams will be lining up for him, but it's going to take an organizational commitment because of the style of player he is.

ESPN's business analyst Andrew Brandt, a former player agent who worked for nine years in the Packers' front office, agrees that special considerations have to be taken.

"Obviously it depends on which running quarterback," Brandt said. "The Redskins went in with their eyes open with RG3 and the fact that he had an ACL injury in 2009. They were still willing to mortgage their future to trade up to get him. Whether someone would do that for a non-special talent remains to be seen. It's tough to make a blanket statement. I think teams are going to look at styles and project out durability issues."

The Redskins' commitment to Griffin makes their handling of his injury all the more questionable because they changed their entire offense to suit him. It was RG3's team before he ever set foot in Redskins Park.

"Every team has its own evaluation and the Redskins made a choice that this investment is going to be worth whatever it took," Brandt said. "Now a running quarterback taken in the fourth or fifth round (Kansas State's Collin Klein for example) is a different animal. It depends on the investment level and the buy-in from the coaches about how to run things.

"A lot of times it revolves around what you have in place already," Brandt said. "The Redskins were certainly convinced that whatever they have in place was not working and they were going to move on to whatever system would put Griffin in the best system to succeed. That's a large investment way beyond the money."

It remains to be seen whether these new-age quarterbacks can flourish or whether they're flashes in the pan, as brilliant as those flashes may be.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1237353

[Dylan]

SF 49ers don't believe Kaepernick will suffer same fate as RGIII.


From Ebenezer Samuel's article in NY Daily News on January 11:


The Kaep Attack doesn’t utilize the read-option as frequently as the RG3-led Redskins have, but Kaepernick’s versatility has still thrown defenders off-balance, allowing San Francisco to score 25 points in six of his seven starts this season.

“He’s a strong athlete,” Packers coach Mike McCarthy said of Kaepernick.

“Can do everything from the pocket, out of the pocket.”

But the Niners’ read-option package also places Kaepernick at risk every single time he scrambles from the pocket, or keeps the ball on a read-option play. And that risk hasn’t escaped coach Jim Harbaugh, who was reminded of that last Sunday.

“Does it make you think about (safety)? Sure, yeah,” Harbaugh said. “That’s something you think about, the health and safety of your quarterback.”

Nevertheless, Harbaugh didn’t indicate that the Niners would change their system, because San Fran believes its read-option maestro is more durable than RG3. While his lanky frame is hardly Tebow-esque, Kaepernick stands 6-4 and weighs 230 pounds, and safety Donte Whitner said he can deliver hits as well as he takes them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1238637


On Saturday, Kaepernick ran for 181 yards on 16 carries. He ran for 20 and 56 yards on two plays.

Kaepernick topped Vick's mark with the 56-yard keeper on an option play in the third quarter. That gave Kaepernick 163 yards on 12 carries, also setting a 49ers franchise record for the postseason.

Kaepernick had 11 carries for 107 yards rushing by halftime.