Pioli offers an excuse

[Hammock Parties]

Pioli will bring Chiefs back to life

http://www.projo.com/sports/jimdonal...3.37be5c8.html

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ORLANDO — If you know Scott Pioli, you know he’s going to do in Kansas City what he did in New England — win Super Bowls.

Most likely not in his second year on the job, as the Patriots did in 2001.

But he’ll get the job done. He always has.

Pioli knows football. He knows people. He knows how to evaluate not only how a player will perform on the field, but also his character — what he’ll be like in the locker room, where the all-important chemistry that is an integral part of championship teams is established and maintained.

He knows his business, as he showed throughout his nine years in New England, when, working hand-in-hand with coach Bill Belichick, Pioli assembled the talent that enabled the Patriots to play in four Super Bowls – winning three of them — and five AFC championship games.

The Pats won six division titles while Pioli was personnel chief, going 18-0 in 2007 before losing Super Bowl XLII in the final seconds to the Giants.

He knows how winning teams — championship teams — are built, and he’s determined to do it in Kansas City, where he’s now a couple of months into his second year as general manager.

“The big difference is that, in Kansas City, I was starting at ground zero,” he said Sunday afternoon, stopping to chat for a few minutes in the lobby of the Ritz-Carlton, where the NFL owners meetings are taking place this week.

The Chiefs were 2-14 in 2008, the year before he arrived. They doubled that win total last season.

“Where I’d come from,” he said, referring to his years with the Patriots, “we had a system and a program that was up and running, with people with a great deal of experience.”

It’s a somewhat different experience for Pioli in Kansas City, where he’s clearly at the top of the totem pole. In New England, Belichick had the last word. With the Chiefs, while Pioli discusses personnel moves with coach Todd Haley, he has the final say.

“It’s similar to my situation in New England,” Pioli said, “but the lead role has swapped.”

To help him in that lead role, he said: “I’ve brought in a number of people who are smarter than I am, starting with the head coach. I don’t ever kid myself that I know that part of the game well enough.”

The head coach is the 43-year-old Haley. It’s his first head-coaching job, but he has extensive experience working with teams that have had to rebuild — most recently the Arizona Cardinals, for whom he was offensive coordinator in 2008, when they won the NFC championship and played in the franchise’s first NFL title game since 1947.

“We have a shared vision of what it takes to build a successful franchise,” Pioli said.

To do that requires more than simply bringing in talented athletes.

“I’ve learned that chemistry is critical,” Pioli said. “In New England, we didn’t just have great players — we had great team players.”

The Patriots had players like Mike Vrabel, who was brought to Kansas City by Pioli last season as much for his leadership as his linebacking talents. Along with the likes of Willie McGinest and Tedy Bruschi, Vrabel made sure that every player who put on a New England uniform knew what was expected of him.

“We also had selfless leaders, like Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, and Anthony Pleasant,” said Pioli, who recently added Pleasant to the K.C. staff as defensive line coach.

A veteran of 14 NFL seasons — the last three in New England — Pleasant is one of several Chiefs assistants with a Patriots connection.

When Charlie Weis was fired at Notre Dame, Pioli snapped him up as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs new defensive coordinator is Romeo Crennel, who was fired as head coach of the Browns after the 2008 season. Crennel and Weis were, of course, the coordinators for Belichick in New England when the Patriots won their three Super Bowls.

Pioli also has hired former Patriots defensive back Otis Smith and put him in charge of “defensive quality control.”

Throw in quarterback Matt Cassel, who filled in so capably for the Patriots after Brady was lost for the 2008 season when he was injured in the opener — against the Chiefs — and there clearly is a strong New England flavor to what Pioli sees as the recipe for success in Kansas City.

Which shouldn’t be surprising.

He doesn’t have to convince people with Patriots ties to, so to speak, buy the Kool-Aid he’s selling. They’ve already been drinking it for years.

“It happens all the time,” Pioli said of the practice of hiring people you know — and who know you.

“Look at what Josh (McDaniel) is doing in Denver. Look what happened when Brian Billick went to the Ravens, or when Andy Reid went to Philadelphia. (Bill) Parcells has done it everywhere he’s gone.

“It’s natural, when you’re looking for leaders.”

It’s been 40 years since the Chiefs have been to the Super Bowl. They’re looking to Pioli to lead them back.

It won’t be this year. But it may not be too many more.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep and they inheirted a lot better team than what we have here.

I just don't see an excuse by Pioli. What he says about KC is absolutely true.

Well, kind of.

I mean, let's be honest:

He did inherit a team with a young LT with all the upside in the world, a game breaking RB, a player who looked like a #1 WR, a future pro bowl CB, one of the best DT prospects of the decade, the greatest TE of all time, and the 3rd and 34th overall picks.

Now, if you look at what those assets were spun into, it's pretty underwhelming.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

15 of Pioli's 22 starters in the 2001 Super Bowl were not in New England when he arrived.

They were 9-7 and 8-8 the 2 years prior to BB\Pioli taking over. Compare that with the Chiefs 4-12 and 2-14 record.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

They were 9-7 and 8-8 the 2 years prior to BB\Pioli taking over. Compare that with the Chiefs 4-12 and 2-14 record.

Oh, and BB and Pioli's first season in NE was 5-11. I'm not saying that the Chiefs will win the Super Bowl this year, or even be within a year of the Pats second year W/L record..... but, the Chiefs are pretty close to where the Pats were going into their second year.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

They were 9-7 and 8-8 the 2 years prior to BB\Pioli taking over. Compare that with the Chiefs 4-12 and 2-14 record.

And yet the roster still had to be turned over.

Just like it does in Kansas City.

In fact, here are the seven starters Pioli inherited in Kansas City:

Charles, Flowers, Carr, Waters, Albert, Bowe and Dorsey.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

At this point, I'm ambivalent about this offseason. The Chiefs spent wisely on their outside FA acquisitions, even if I believe they overpaid to retain a lot of poor players. I'm glad they didn't overpay for a guy like Dansby, who isn't a good run defender, and although I liked Dwan Edwards as a 5 tech, he's not worth anywhere near 4.5 million a year.

This FA market is flat reeruned.

Ultimately, the success or failure of this regime will depend on the draft. They failed miserably in year one. If this draft is filled with reaches and poor value, then that is a much worse indicator than not signing Dansby, Dunta Robinson, Antrel Rolle, etc.

Great post. Sums my thoughts up precisely.

[DaWolf]

People usually go with what they know and do best. I think the critical thing is if you go with something, you make sure all of your organization is on the same page and all in. If Pioli feels better about the 3-4 system and the flexibility that provides, and that's his long term plan, then he should stick with it.

I think we've seen it before. Vermeil showed up here year one and took a team that Gunther had "built" to be a big, powerful team which runs the ball and uses the play action pass, and immediately tried to turn them into a quick, finesse type team that scores quickly and often. Edwards came in and made sure he dismantled the offense to slow down, and played his Tampa 2 scheme that he's familiar with.

The failure has always been in the execution. Vermeil paid little attention to defense and the two guys who he brought in were ill equipped to have autonomy over that side of the ball. You bring in a guy with the stature of Gregg Williams or someone like that and hand over the reigns of the defense to them, not jokes like GRob and Gunther. If you are Herm, you don't hand the reins of an offense over to an OL coach or have a guy who likes to play physical man coverage and blitz call a zone heavy cover 2 scheme. If you are Todd Haley, you don't keep around an OC that doesn't mesh with you, only to fire him and change the playbook two weeks before the season, and hire a DC that isn't necessarily a very good 3-4 DC.

Pioli is going to have his system just like Parcells and Holmgren have their systems. The bottom line is going to come down to how they draft, so if Pioli doesn't improve in that department then it's pointless. But probably the best thing he's done since taking over is bringing in people who all seem to finally be on the same page, and for the first time in a decade, I can look at our OC and DC and not be embarrassed by one or the other...

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by DaWolf

for the first time in a decade, I can look at our OC and DC and not be embarrassed by one or the other...

Really?

[keg in kc]

What the Chiefs are is a team that's been spiraling downwards for more than a decade - or "swirling 'round the bowl" as I like to put it. This is their 3rd complete rebuild in that time, and each one has involved a completely different approach to building a football team. They've gone from trying to retain the "glory" of the 90s (Gunther '99-'00) built around a defense that was already steadily declining, to trying to recapture the magical season the Rams had in '99 with a system Vermeil built around giving up picks for coaches and veteran players, to again building around defense with Edwards to now building around defense again, but with a drastically different scheme.

This has been one of the worst-managed franchises for years, as far as football goes. They've drafted poorly, they've never built a central core of talent, they've had little to no stability on the coaching staff, . That's where Pioli was starting from. And what he has to do is something their was a pretty lengthy article about during the coaching search last year (or was that even the GM search), when they were talking about how Clark wants to model the franchise around the Steelers. Not in terms of how they play, but how the organization as a whole is structured. They find the systems they want, which was apparently the 3-4 and a more pass-oriented offense, they find the coaches they want to execute that (which I think was Weis and Crennel all along), and then they stick with it...for years.

This has always been something that was going to take a while to turn around. 2009 was always the tear down and roster assessment year, sort of year 1a of the rebuild. 2010 is year 1b. If they're lucky they'll be competitive, although reality is they did win 4 games last year. Although on the other hand, they do play in one of the worst divisions in the game.

Fans are fickle. People are already turning on the 3-4, which is ironic after 10 years of hearing people talk about how they wanted the it. Now that they have it, they want the 4-3 again. I guess that's just how it goes; the grass is always greener. But what the franchise needs to do is stabilize, and that means Haley gets years to put it together. That means the defense doesn't change back to a 4-3 after a single year as a 3-4. Or two years. Or three. That means they stay on the course they're on.

[Hammock Parties]

They've drafted poorly, they've never built a central core of talent, they've had little to no stability on the coaching staff.

So far Pioli has seen that those traditions continue.

that means Haley gets years to put it together

I bet you he isn't even here in three years. He'll be scapegoat #1.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

So far Pioli has seen that those traditions continue.



I bet you he isn't even here in three years. He'll be scapegoat #1.

You're proving my point about fans being fickle. 12 months later we know everything. No sense of time.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You're proving my point about fans being fickle. 12 months later we know everything. No sense of time.

Sorry, Keg, the time was last year. And they ****ed last year up.

So far they are no better than all the other clowns that had the Chiefs swirling round the bowl.

[kysirsoze]

Is there anything here Pioli didn't say about the Chiefs when he was hired? Maybe it was a preemptive excuse, but it isn't new.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by kysirsoze

Is there anything here Pioli didn't say about the Chiefs when he was hired? Maybe it was a preemptive excuse, but it isn't new.

It kinda is. Pioli didn't come out at his press conference and say "oh man, we're kinda ****ed right now so just sit back and relax while we suck."

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Sorry, Keg, the time was last year. And they ****ed last year up.

So far they are no better than all the other clowns that had the Chiefs swirling round the bowl.

It's only ****ed up if you don't understand what last year was, which was the year to tear down the roster and assess what was left. And they still won twice as many games against a more difficult schedule. What were you expecting, really, in 2009? That they'd instantly turn a 2-14 team into a contender? If that's the case, then that's a failure on your part, not theirs. What else did you want? Sexier draft picks? Hell, two years from now the guys they picked-up may (or may not) be as good as anybody else out of that class, we have no way of knowing, and that's without even considering that the front office was working with one hand tied behind its collective back (read: Peterson's left-overs). Either way, who Tyson Jackson was in 2009 doesn't particularly matter; it's all about who Tyson Jackson is from 2011 and onward, and the same goes with all the rest of the picks.

Again, no sense of time. Everybody wants instant gratification when the reality is that it's going to take years.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

It's only ****ed up if you don't understand what last year was, which was the year to tear down the roster and assess what was left..

And have a shitty draft?

And screw around with worthless players in free agency?

And hire coaches who are now gone?

And trade for a shitty quarterback?

Yeah, year one was just a year to assess....they didn't REALLY intend to accomplish anything....

Garbage.

And yes, Keg, it WAS a shitty draft. There's something to be said for being patient with players but when all of those players, save the kicker, show absolutely NOTHING and contribute in no meaningful way, there are clear warning signs. So don't sit there and act like we should all be patient and suddenly these guys will turn into All-Pros.