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Old 10-03-2012, 12:09 PM   #1
Carlota69 Carlota69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Badguy View Post
Cabrera should win it because 100 years ago somebody coined the term triple crown. If Cabrera was just the first player to lead the league in the three arbitrary offensive categories of BA, HRs, and RBI in decades, Trout would deserve it for being the better all-round player.

That isn't what happened, though. Cabrera will win the "triple crown", so that's more impressive than what Trout has done.
If Cabrera wins the triple Corwn he will be the first player in over 40 years to win it. Impressive. Regardless, Trout is the first player ever to score over 125 runs, 50 steals and 30+ home runs. First player in history. Period. And thats just offensive numbers. His no doubt about it gold glove should factor in as well.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #2
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If Cabrera wins the triple Corwn he will be the first player in over 40 years to win it. Impressive. Regardless, Trout is the first player ever to score over 125 runs, 50 steals and 30+ home runs. First player in history. Period. And thats just offensive numbers. His no doubt about it gold glove should factor in as well.
Yes, but there isn't a name for those arbitrary stats you cited, so it is less valuable than other arbitrary stats that have long been dubbed the "triple crown".
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #3
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Yes, but there isn't a name for those arbitrary stats you cited, so it is less valuable than other arbitrary stats that have long been dubbed the "triple crown".
Its less valuable??? Scoring runs, creating havoc in the bases and hitting HRs is less valuable just because it doesnt have a sexy name??
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:02 PM   #4
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Its less valuable??? Scoring runs, creating havoc in the bases and hitting HRs is less valuable just because it doesnt have a sexy name??
Yes. If it's so valuable, why doesn't it have a name? The name "Triple Crown" just has a certain je ne sais quoi which is proof positive of its value.

Just think about it. If Josh Hamilton hadn't missed so many games, he would have hit more HRs than Cabrera, and Cabrera wouldn't have won the triple crown, and Mike Trout would deserve the MVP. But Hamilton DID miss those games, thus making Cabrera more valuable vis a vis Mike Trout. I don't understand why this doesn't make sense to you.

If Hamilton hits two bombs tonight, Trout had a better season than Cabrera. If Hamilton doesn't hit any tonight, Cabrera had a better season than Trout.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:16 AM   #5
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BA, RBI, and HRs is all you need to know when evaluating a player's value. I don't understand why people even bother looking at fielding, base-running, pitching, etc. Those are negligible facets of the game and should only be considered in the event of a tie. (And even then, that would only be if you couldn't find a coin to flip.)
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Saul Badguy View Post
BA, RBI, and HRs is all you need to know when evaluating a player's value. I don't understand why people even bother looking at fielding, base-running, pitching, etc. Those are negligible facets of the game and should only be considered in the event of a tie. (And even then, that would only be if you couldn't find a coin to flip.)
Nicely done. You built a straw man and knocked it down. Congratulations.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:24 AM   #7
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Don't know why this is even a debate, if Cabrera wins the triple crown its game set and match. There is no argument that can trump the triple freaking crown. Trout is a great story, but I can't believe the people discounting what a HUGE accomplishment the triple crown would be.
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Nicely done. You built a straw man and knocked it down. Congratulations.
Tell me more about this straw man I created.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:29 AM   #8
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I still haven't heard anyone explain how Trout leading the Angels to a 3rd place finish makes him the MVP. Spare me the talk about the Angels' tough division and all the other crap. The fact is that he was leading the league in hitting on August 1st, and he didn't perform nearly as well down the stretch when the Angels were actually in the pennant race. He hit .284 after August 1st. That is not an MVP performance.

You don't decide the MVP on August 1st. You decide it after ALL of the games have been played.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:38 AM   #9
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I still haven't heard anyone explain how Trout leading the Angels to a 3rd place finish makes him the MVP. Spare me the talk about the Angels' tough division and all the other crap. The fact is that he was leading the league in hitting on August 1st, and he didn't perform nearly as well down the stretch when the Angels were actually in the pennant race. He hit .284 after August 1st. That is not an MVP performance.

You don't decide the MVP on August 1st. You decide it after ALL of the games have been played.
How a player closes the season is important in the MVP race, no doubt about it. You're fresh/hot in the mind of voters, most importantly. But the stuff that happens early counts, too. I'll point out that despite hitting .284 after August 1, Trout still posted a sterling OBP (.377).

If the award is truly "Most Valuable Player, " it should go to the player who was the best player in the league over the course of the whole season. Not just the first four months of the season, and not just the last two months.

You can make a fine case for Miguel Cabrera. Same thing with Trout. It's not a slam dunk in either direction. Neither choice is egregiously wrong.

I've long thought that the whole "Did his team make the playoffs" thing is ridiculous. Basing an individual award on team performance is about as dumb as basing a Gold Glove on offensive performance. So OF COURSE it happens all the time.

Matt Kemp was the best player in the National League last year (that WAS a slam dunk), but didn't take home the hardware.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #10
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I've long thought that the whole "Did his team make the playoffs" thing is ridiculous. Basing an individual award on team performance is about as dumb as basing a Gold Glove on offensive performance. So OF COURSE it happens all the time.
I completely agree with you on that, and I feel a little sheepish about even using that argument.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:29 AM   #11
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I think Cabrera should win unless Josh Hamilton hits two HRs tonight. Then, Trout should win.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:43 AM   #12
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I think Cabrera should win unless Josh Hamilton hits two HRs tonight. Then, Trout should win.
Ask me again where you set up a straw man so that you can easily knock it down. At least Duncan Idaho is providing intelligent responses, even if I disagree with his choice for MVP.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:55 AM   #13
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Ask me again where you set up a straw man so that you can easily knock it down. At least Duncan Idaho is providing intelligent responses, even if I disagree with his choice for MVP.
I'm pretty sure I quoted a post that said exactly what you are now claiming to be a straw man created by me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:37 AM   #14
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Miguel Cabrera deserves the MVP because he finagled his team into a division with the White Sox, Royals, Indians, and Twins whereas Trout put his team in a division with better teams.

Also, Alabama didn't deserve to be in the NC game over Ohio. Ohio won their division, and Alabama didn't.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:11 AM   #15
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Just for fun: Here's Trout's line if he had Cabrera's PA (which he would if the Angels hadn't been idiots to start the season):

33 HR/92 RBI/144 R/29 2B/10 3B/58 SB
.324/.397/.561 SLG

Not trying to make any point with it. Just posting it because I had it.
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