Minnesota man who killed teens in break-in charged with murder

[Omaha]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I noticed you conviniently ignored my post #326.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Here's the definition of premeditated murder: Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.

I don't think you can say he "wrongfully" killed these robbers when they had broken into his house several times. Again, these are not "innocent" victims. I also think that you can question his ability to rationally think through what he was doing being that he was tired of being a victim and he was scared. Finally, he never concealed what he did, in fact, he's fully confessed all his actions. Just because everyone doesn't agree with his actions or his methodology, does not make him a first degree murderer IMHO.

Sorry. I wasn't sure if you were serious with this one. The sentence in bold is so stupid I thought you might have typed it to be sarcastic. Obviously, being frustrated by repeated burglaries does not give anyone the authority to murder the burglar so murdering a burglar would absolutely be "wrongfully killing" unless it can be argued that it was done in self defense, which it clearly cannot.

You even typed the definition of premeditated murder FFS. The girl was full of bullet holes and he went to get another gun to finish the job.

You are the only one who has ever used the word innocent to describe the teens so I don't know why you keep arguing that they are not innocent.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Omaha

Sorry. I wasn't sure if you were serious with this one. The sentence in bold is so stupid I thought you might have typed it to be sarcastic. Obviously, being frustrated by repeated burglaries does not give anyone the authority to murder the burglar so murdering a burglar would absolutely be "wrongfully killing" unless it can be argued that it was done in self defense, which it clearly cannot.

You even typed the definition of premeditated murder FFS. The girl was full of bullet holes and he went to get another gun to finish the job.

You are the only one who has ever used the word innocent to describe the teens so I don't know why you keep arguing that they are not innocent.

the point is that premeditated murder's definition entials wrongfully killing someone, which can be argued, and it also says something about rational consideration which can be argued too because being a victim of multiple crimes can make someone irrational.

[Omaha]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

the point is that premeditated murder's definition entials wrongfully killing someone, which can be argued, and it also says something about rational consideration which can be argued too because being a victim of multiple crimes can make someone irrational.

No. You cannot argue that. Not without sounding like an idiot.

And you are misinterpreting the definition if you think that behaving irrationally is an acceptable defense for murdering someone.

If you are trolling, well done. You got me. If not,

[ForeverChiefs58]

Assistant Washington County Attorney Brent Wartner outlined for jurors Monday the evidence that prosecutors will present, including Smith's statements and audio from a recorder that Smith had set up in a bookcase the day of the break-in.

"He's down in the basement, in a chair, tucked between two bookcases at the bottom of the stairs. He said he was down there reading a book ... with his Mini-14, a .22-caliber revolver, some energy bars and a bottle of water," Wartner said.

Wartner said Smith heard the door of his house rattle at about 12:30 p.m., then someone walking across the deck, then a window breaking.

"And he waited," Wartner said.

As Brady descended the basement steps, Smith shot him in the chest, then in the back while Brady fell, Wartner said. Smith fired a final shot into Brady's head, the bullet passing through Brady's hand, Wartner said.

Smith put Brady's body on a tarp, dragged it into his workshop, reloaded his Mini-14 rifle and sat down again, the prosecutor said. A few minutes later, Kifer walked down the stairs and Smith shot her, Wartner said. He tried another shot, but his rifle jammed, Wartner said, and Smith told police he believed Kifer laughed at him.

"He was angry," Wartner said. "So he pulled out his revolver and he shot her twice in the head, once in the left eye and once behind the left ear."

Smith dragged Kifer's body into the workshop and laid it on top of Brady's. Smith told investigators he thought he heard Kifer gasping, so he pulled out his revolver for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot to the head," the assistant prosecutor said.

[Tombstone RJ]

I bet it gets pleaded down to something like manslaughter. The old guy will end up in jail one way or another and it's too bad. It's too bad these idiot teens died and it's too bad this old guy was so robotic in his method of protecting himself.

[Omaha]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I bet it gets pleaded down to something like manslaughter. The old guy will end up in jail one way or another and it's too bad. It's too bad these idiot teens died and it's too bad this old guy was so robotic in his method of protecting himself.

The teens should be in jail. That can't happen because this ****er decided to play judge, jury, & executioner.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Omaha

The teens should be in jail. That can't happen because this ****er decided to play judge, jury, & executioner.

I noticed you conviniently ignored my post #326.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Setting up the audio recording shows a premeditation. What's on it will be what sends him away

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

Setting up the audio recording shows a premeditation. What's on it will be what sends him away

I don't think it does at all. He could conceivably have set up the recording in fear that armed burglars were about to kill him, hoping to provide evidence.

It's going to be difficult for his side to prove why all those shots were necessary. But I could easily see the defense winning because in a dark basement, an intruder couldn't be judged with complete accuracy as to whether they are a threat or whether they are armed. He could conceivably have been unsure whether the person was actually hit by the shot. whether they were armed (given he'd had firearms stolen before) or whether they were shot but were still a threat. A person who is armed and has been shot could be MORE of a threat, given that they are now in their view fighting for their life.

I don't think they will be able to get a murder conviction on the boy. The girl, sure, if we have the story as it will play out in court. (One has to wonder if we have the whole story here, because what girl would follow someone down into a dark basement after hearing gunshots?)

Anyway, this guy needs to be locked up IMO, but it also is a good reminder that your chances of being shot to death are a hell of a lot lower if you aren't committing burglaries.

[Prison Bitch]

Dude should get the electric chair as soon as the show trial ends.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Evidence expected to be presented at trial includes video surveillance of the teens entering Smith’s home, as well as an audio recording of the killings. Prosecutors have said the audio tape shows four shots were fired at Brady, and that Kifer can be heard 10 minutes later saying, “Nick?” before more shots were fired. Prosecutors have said Smith can be heard telling Kifer: “You’re dying.”

Assistant Morrison County Attorney Todd Kosovich has said the killings were an “ambush” and that Smith removed light bulbs from sockets and sat by a tall bookcase so the teens couldn’t see him as they came downstairs.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Jurors might find the idea of ambushing people breaking into your house silly sounding.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

Jurors might find the idea of ambushing people breaking into your house silly sounding.

Yea, not sure how it can be premeditated when the teens are the ones who chose to break into the house. The teens chose the house and the time.

Old guy was premeditated in his intent to defend his house ......

[ForeverChiefs58]

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

Yea, not sure how it can be premeditated when the teens are the ones who chose to break into the house. The teens chose the house and the time.

Old guy was premeditated in his intent to defend his house ......

Yeah I think he goes free too.

I know a guy who has hollow tip bullets and know of others who have lethal traps should someone chose the wrong house. I suppose some would think the bad guys fate would be harsh afterwards.

Very difficult to feel any sympathy for the unfortunate idiot who chooses the wrong person to mess with.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

Yeah I think he goes free too.

I know a guy who has hollow tip bullets and know of others who have lethal traps should someone chose the wrong house. I suppose some would think the bad guys fate would be harsh afterwards.

Very difficult to feel any sympathy for the unfortunate idiot who chooses the wrong person to mess with.

Hollowpoints are the best choice for home defense, because they are far less likely to overpenetrate.