Chiefs Petro a& Lenny "Don't blame the offense" - Page 10

**petegz28** · 12-22-2008, 12:38 PM

On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss.

Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games".

Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead.

Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off.

Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.

beach tribe · 12-22-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

until you look at those 15 fumbles...and then the 20 picks the next year.

A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Look Hootie if you are going to make that argument than every QB that has suited up for the Chiefs since 2000 sucks ass because they couldn't win games with a bad defense.

Green was a good QB, but overrated and pretty much just a system QB. He obviously wasn't a franchise QB.

Huard sucked and everyone knows that. Croyle sucks...

Thigpen at least has potential.

We're looking for a franchise QB...right?

I doubt Thigpen turns out to be a franchise QB, but he does have potential and he's played very well considering Herm Edwards is the coach and the circumstance he was thrown into.

He should get an A on his postseason grade...that's for sure.

Mecca · 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

Hootie is enamored with the running QB....people have been saying that kinda shit for years you notice the best QB's in the league are still pocket guys.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

We'll see...

I bet the Bengals win about 6 games next year and Palmer has another shit year...follows that up with another one in 2010 and he'll be done.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Hootie is enamored with the running QB....people have been saying that kinda shit for years you notice the best QB's in the league are still pocket guys.

No I'm not...

I'm enamored with guys like Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger...guys who can manipulate the coverage with their feet and buy time for their receivers to get open and make plays.

Mecca · 12-22-2008, 02:11 PM

Yea Palmer is gonna be out of the league at 30 while Kerry Collins is still around at 35 while never being remotely as good as Palmer ever.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:11 PM

and Thigpen has rarely ran the ball this year on plays that weren't designed for him to run...he looks to pass first...

He reminds me of Donovan McNabb McNabb's rookie and sophomore season.

Mecca · 12-22-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

No I'm not...

I'm enamored with guys like Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger...guys who can manipulate the coverage with their feet and buy time for their receivers to get open and make plays.

You know Jay Cutler turns the ball over an awful lot right...weren't you just bagging on someone for that...

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:12 PM

In fact, Donovan in 2000 (his 2nd year) and Thigpen this year have pretty similar stat sheets if you stretch them over 16 games and Donovan was widely praised that year as a future stud QB.

The only reason everyone is down on Thigpen is because he's a 7th round pick...if he was 15th overall everyone would be stoked about the guys progress.

**dirk digler** · 12-22-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

That's a joke.

He botched a field goal snap two years ago...why the hell is your starting QB your placeholder?

and last year, against the Giants, he played a HELL of a game in the playoffs.

He was literally the only Cowboy to show up that game...and like I said earlier...had Crayton not dropped the sure fire dagger when Romo made a remarkable throw and scramble the Cowboys would have lost to the Pats and the Pats would have been 19-0 last year.

It is not a joke.

He has a label of choker on him because he is...so far. In that Giants game last year he threw an INT in the end zone to seal the game for the Giants. If he had thrown a TD they would have won.

He could have gotten the Cowboys in the playoffs this week but he choked that as well by throwing 2 INT's.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You know Jay Cutler turns the ball over an awful lot right...weren't you just bagging on someone for that...

Cutler has the tools for today's NFL...

Palmer doesn't.

You have to be able to manipulate the coverage...Palmer can't do it. Opposing defenses have to respect Cutler and keep containment for the bootleg...which also opens up running lanes...I don't think anyone is worried about any sort of a bootleg from Carson Palmer.

Mecca · 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

In fact, Donovan in 2000 (his 2nd year) and Thigpen this year have pretty similar stat sheets if you stretch them over 16 games and Donovan was widely praised that year as a future stud QB.

The only reason everyone is down on Thigpen is because he's a 7th round pick...if he was 15th overall everyone would be stoked about the guys progress.

Donovan McNabb was playing under center in Andy Reid's west coast offense..Tyler Thigpen is playing in the gimmick, it's not just about stats here.

beach tribe · 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM

Peyton Manning threw 19 INTs his 5th year in the league.

Palmer threw 20 INTs his 5th year in the league........big difference huh?

Mecca · 12-22-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

Cutler has the tools for today's NFL...

Palmer doesn't.

You have to be able to manipulate the coverage...Palmer can't do it. Opposing defenses have to respect Cutler and keep containment for the bootleg...which also opens up running lanes...I don't think anyone is worried about any sort of a bootleg from Carson Palmer.

You know Carson Palmer isn't nearly as immobile as you think he is...he moved around quite alot in college, in 2006 he didn't because he was coming off an ACL but he is not nearly as immobile as he was that 1 season which contributed to his fumbles.

Hootie · 12-22-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

It is not a joke.

He has a label of choker on him because he is...so far. In that Giants game last year he threw an INT in the end zone to seal the game for the Giants. If he had thrown a TD they would have won.

He could have gotten the Cowboys in the playoffs this week but he choked that as well by throwing 2 INT's.

You mean on a 4th down on the last play of the game? Those are real high percentage situations.

The Cowboys play the Giants 10 times in the playoffs last year they win 9.5 of them...the defense allowing a TD at the end of the half when they had a 14-3 lead with 0:45 when they scored their 2nd TD was a huge momentum changer...and the fact they could have gone up 28-17 with 5 minutes left had Crayton not dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands is the reason they lost that game. It had nothing to do with Romo...who played a damn gritty game with that relentless pass rush...he played a far superior game to that of Tom Brady against that same defense in the Super Bowl...is Tom Brady a choker?

The Cowboys still control their fate this week...we'll see how he does.

As for last year...he was not a choker in the playoffs. Don't let the media feed you that bullshit...sometimes it's cool to watch games and form your own opinions...lay off of the Skip Bayless bullshit.

Skip will make you believe T.O. is an average WR at best when he's been the best damn receiver in the NFL for a LONG time.

12-22-2008, 12:38 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2794127	Petro a& Lenny "Don't blame the offense" On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss. Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games". Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead. Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off. Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.
Posts: 128,000

12-22-2008, 02:11 PM	#141
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2617050	Yea Palmer is gonna be out of the league at 30 while Kerry Collins is still around at 35 while never being remotely as good as Palmer ever.
Posts: 110,936

12-22-2008, 02:11 PM	#142
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	and Thigpen has rarely ran the ball this year on plays that weren't designed for him to run...he looks to pass first... He reminds me of Donovan McNabb McNabb's rookie and sophomore season.
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2008, 02:12 PM	#144
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	In fact, Donovan in 2000 (his 2nd year) and Thigpen this year have pretty similar stat sheets if you stretch them over 16 games and Donovan was widely praised that year as a future stud QB. The only reason everyone is down on Thigpen is because he's a 7th round pick...if he was 15th overall everyone would be stoked about the guys progress.
Posts: 56,356

12-22-2008, 02:15 PM	#148
beach tribe Keep doubting J MFing Houston Join Date: May 2007 Location: ft.lauderdale Casino cash: $4808036	Peyton Manning threw 19 INTs his 5th year in the league. Palmer threw 20 INTs his 5th year in the league........big difference huh?
Posts: 21,429