Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I died a little inside after reading the Kissel article and thinking to myself "Y'know...we could do a lot worse..."

Dammit! Begone, Nick Foles!

Before you get too down about it, go read my latest response in the Kissel thread. I've mentioned it before and so has Dane.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Look, I'm already letting Dane talk me into Nick Foles.

There's not enough of my dignity left to let you talk me into Alex ****ing Smith.

Ain't gonna happen...

[milkman]

This perception that Harbaugh somehow fixed Alex Smith is just not accurate.

Harbaugh did freat job of masking Smith's flaws with scheme and play calling.
He turned him into pretty good game manager that didn't lose games for them.

Did Smith even average 200 yards a game?

And Kyle Williams never gets to be the goat in that NFC Championship loss if Smith converts just 2 or 3 meaningful 3rd downs.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by milkman

This perception that Harbaugh somehow fixed Alex Smith is just not accurate.

Harbaugh did freat job of masking Smith's flaws with scheme and play calling.
He turned him into pretty good game manager that didn't lose games for them.

Did Smith even average 200 yards a game?

And Kyle Williams never gets to be the goat in that NFC Championship loss if Smith converts just 2 or 3 meaningful 3rd downs.

Right. The Niners were basically a better version of the 90s Chiefs. Run hard, play tough D, solid turnover ratio

[O.city]

Is it bad draft value if you take a mid to late first round projected QB and he turns into the QBOTF?


Value or rather worth I guess seems to be a hindsight thing. We drafted Dorsey were he was slotted, but was that good value?


In the end, it's about getting good players that fit your system and help you win. Who gives a shit about value.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

Who gives a shit about value.

People that are trying to win the Draft instead of trying to win the Lombardi.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

this. I truly pray dorsey and reid arent the buffoons the media is hoping they will be...
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Here is a list of all the quarterbacks in the last 10 superbowls.

Brady/Collins
Brady/McNabb
Rothlisberger/Hasselback
Eli/Brady
Peyton/Grossman
Rothlisberger/Warner
Brees/Peyton
Rodgers/Rothlisberger
Eli/Brady
Flacco/Kaepernick

13 quarterbacks.

How many of them were better than Geno Smith COMING OUT OF COLLEGE?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here is a list of all the quarterbacks in the last 10 superbowls.

Brady/Collins
Brady/McNabb
Rothlisberger/Hasselback
Eli/Brady
Peyton/Grossman
Rothlisberger/Warner
Brees/Peyton
Rodgers/Rothlisberger
Eli/Brady
Flacco/Kaepernick

13 quarterbacks.

How many of them were better than Geno Smith COMING OUT OF COLLEGE?

McNabb, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees aren't really arguable. You could argue Kaepernick.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by O.city

McNabb, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees aren't really arguable. You could argue Kaepernick.

lololololololol
Posted via Mobile Device

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Sweet Dick Willie

lololololololol
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, I can't imagine you would look at that unbiased. At all.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

McNabb, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees aren't really arguable. You could argue Kaepernick.

You have an internal logic fail here.

If Rodgers isn't arguable, but there was a huge faction of the draft folks that thought Smith was better than Rodgers coming out of college, then isn't Smith also not arguable?

The same logic can be applied to Rivers/Eli.

Brees fell to the 2nd and wasn't Brees for 3 years.

It's an odd question, really. BUt I think a fair statement is that many of those names could have been considered better than Geno coming out of college, but the only truly 'inarguable' example is Peyton Manning. Otherwise you have to put yourself in the position of claiming that Alex Smith was also better than Geno coming out. You wanna hitch yourself to that wagon?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You have an internal logic fail here.

If Rodgers isn't arguable, but there was a huge faction of the draft folks that thought Smith was better than Rodgers coming out of college, then isn't Smith also not arguable?

The same logic can be applied to Rivers/Eli.

Brees fell to the 2nd and wasn't Brees for 3 years.

It's an odd question, really. BUt I think a fair statement is that many of those names could have been considered better than Geno coming out of college, but the only truly 'inarguable' example is Peyton Manning. Otherwise you have to put yourself in the position of claiming that Alex Smith was also better than Geno coming out. You wanna hitch yourself to that wagon?

Then I accomplished somewhat what I hoped to with that.

It's pretty much impossible to look at something like that with no hindsight glasses on, because we know the end game. We can take the scouting report they had as a prospect, hold it up to what they are now, and see what matches up.

IMO, you can't effectively analyze and/or compare prospects accross time, because you can't take that element out of it. Which is why the whole Luck/RGIII stuff is somewhat overblown, just as the "he's no DT etc."

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

McNabb, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees aren't really arguable. You could argue Kaepernick.

Coming out of college?

He's superior as a prospect to Brees, period. Brees was coming out of the spread before the spread was en vogue, plus Brees is a midget.

I think it's arguable whether or not he's a better prospect that Big Ben. Ben had some serious question marks coming out and he too came from a spread offense.

Out of the guys on that list, the ones that were DEFINITIVELY better prospects than Geno, without the benefit of hindsight, are:

McNabb
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning

And that's about it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Coming out of college?

He's superior as a prospect to Brees, period. Brees was coming out of the spread before the spread was en vogue, plus Brees is a midget.

I think it's arguable whether or not he's a better prospect that Big Ben. Ben had some serious question marks coming out and he too came from a spread offense.

Out of the guys on that list, the ones that were DEFINITIVELY better prospects than Geno, without the benefit of hindsight, are:

McNabb
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning

And that's about it.

He didn't say "Better Prospects". He said "Better QB's".

HUGE difference.

Tom Brady won put a team on his shoulders and won a Super Bowl in Year Two. Kaepernick led his team to a Super Bowl in Year Two. Collins led the Panthers to the NFC Championship in Year Two. Etc. and so on.

Just because scouts missed on guys doesn't mean that the players weren't ready to lead a team.