The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Which is simpler:

1.) The events of the show actually happened; there is a reason we saw them.

Thanks for answering my question with a question.

As I stated earlier, if you want to believe in a magical island with polar bears, ancient artifacts and immortals (et al) be my guest.

Originally Posted by Reaper16

2.) The majority of the stuff written for and broadcast on the show is stuff that didn't happen but everyone had to see anyway, even if it had nothing to do with Jack's hero's journey.

Everyone "had to see it" because the show was a ratings grabber that earned an enormous amount of money for ABC. If the show had flopped, what we had seen would have been great abbreviated.

[irishjayhawk]

And this totally obviates the whole "Who you link yourself to in this world is who you have to find in the next to move on". If he just constructed it in a nano second before death, it completely dismantles that whole sentiment - one I find intriguing.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My problem with Dane's interpretation is that there doesn't seem to be much "textual" evidence for it beyond Jack "landing" and "dying" in what appears to be the same spot on the island. Dane's interpretation makes logical sense when abstracted from the show but I don't see the in-show support for it.

Agreed. Dane I don't know how many times you've seen each episode, but I've watched each episode 3 to 8 times, and not once during any viewing, ever did I think that it was some kind of dream. There was never any evidence for it, ever. If you could provide any other evidence showing it was a dream, I might not argue with you, but nothing else supports the dream theory.

Not once ever did someone change to another person or change clothes before our eyes. Never did anybody stray away from what they were doing on a completely unrelated tangent. All the minute detail we got in the show just doesn't happen in dreams.

P.S. The comment that got me upset was the one about you (Dane) saying that you've talked to many people in the show business and not one of them has a different theory than you. You make it out to seem like we are lesser people when it comes to our opinion about Lost. Show me one person you talked to that was as into the show as me that you talked to. I bet you can't.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

Exactly correct. After season 3 (mid way, actually), it Greyified itself. I have coined the term Greyified which basically means sacrificing everything for the sake of romance and side stories rather than a main tenent. House has been Greyified for a good seasons or two. It was about House but it became about the supporting characters and, specifically, their love lives. Just like Grey's.

Love that expression! Imma steal it.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Occam's Razor.

Not sure Occam's Razor applies to fiction. This isn't science, it's a tv show. Written by people with an intention in mind. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else thinks that intention is absurd.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

2. The plane splits into two pieces, everyone dies instantly but in the nanosecond between life and death, a single man has to travel on a hero's journey with his very soul hanging in the balance.

If none of it's real, or if it's all in one person's mind, how can there be a hero's journey? This seems to not only lower, but eleviate the stakes entirely.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And who said anything about a dream? Who here knows what happens the instant you die?

Wow. I thought you did. No? This changes this whole argument considerably if you're now clarifying that you don't think it was a dream or imagined.

I still don't think I agree with your interpreation, if this is the case, but at least it makes more sense to me.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by irishjayhawk

And this totally obviates the whole "Who you link yourself to in this world is who you have to find in the next to move on". If he just constructed it in a nano second before death, it completely dismantles that whole sentiment - one I find intriguing.

And this too.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Buck

Agreed. Dane I don't know how many times you've seen each episode, but I've watched each episode 3 to 8 times, and not once during any viewing, ever did I think that it was some kind of dream. There was never any evidence for it, ever. If you could provide any other evidence showing it was a dream, I might not argue with you, but nothing else supports the dream theory.

Not once ever did someone change to another person or change clothes before our eyes. Never did anybody stray away from what they were doing on a completely unrelated tangent. All the minute detail we got in the show just doesn't happen in dreams.

P.S. The comment that got me upset was the one about you (Dane) saying that you've talked to many people in the show business and not one of them has a different theory than you. You make it out to seem like we are lesser people when it comes to our opinion about Lost. Show me one person you talked to that was as into the show as me that you talked to. I bet you can't.

Seriously, you and I should stop discussing this with each other because for one, you don't understand what I'm saying (I've NEVER said it was a "dream" and you clearly don't understand the concept I'm describing) and two, you are taking this WAY too personally.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Buck

P.S. The comment that got me upset was the one about you (Dane) saying that you've talked to many people in the show business and not one of them has a different theory than you. You make it out to seem like we are lesser people when it comes to our opinion about Lost. Show me one person you talked to that was as into the show as me that you talked to. I bet you can't.

It did come across that way. But I'm going to give Dane the benefit of the doubt and guess that he didn't mean it that way.

But, for the record, I don't think that being an "industry" person makes you any more or less qualified to interpret and/or appreciate the show than a "civilian." The obvious exception being, an "industry" person who wrote and/or created the show.

[Reaper16]

There's really no functional difference between a dream and whatever the mind constructs in the instant between life and death. Dane - you yourself seemed to understand this when you invoked the word dream many posts ago in the immediate aftermath of the finale with your defense line - Do people always wear the same clothes when they dream?

[Buck]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Seriously, you and I should stop discussing this with each other because for one, you don't understand what I'm saying (I've NEVER said it was a "dream" and you clearly don't understand the concept I'm describing) and two, you are taking this WAY too personally.

Ok how is what you are describing not a dream? It's not real and it's in Jacks head, I don't see how what you are describing isn't a dream. Whatever.

Also if you don't want me to take it personally dint try and back up your claims with the support of Hollywood unless you are going to name names ad those names are people associated with the show Lost.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Love that expression! Imma steal it.


Not sure Occam's Razor applies to fiction. This isn't science, it's a tv show. Written by people with an intention in mind. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else thinks that intention is absurd.


If none of it's real, or if it's all in one person's mind, how can there be a hero's journey? This seems to not only lower, but eleviate the stakes entirely.


Wow. I thought you did. No? This changes this whole argument considerably if you're now clarifying that you don't think it was a dream or imagined.

I still don't think I agree with your interpreation, if this is the case, but at least it makes more sense to me.

Dude, I think that once again, I am finished with this conversation.

It seems that too many people are misinterpreting everything that I am stating and that people are becoming "angry" because they think I'm talking down to them.

The bottom line is this: LOST was a show that existed on several levels. I see the show entirely through the eyes of ONE man: Jack.

Other people see it differently and it appears that there is no common ground between the two, nor is there any reason for me to continue to reiterate myself repeatedly.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

There's really no functional difference between a dream and whatever the mind constructs in the instant between life and death. Dane - you yourself seemed to understand this when you invoked the word dream many posts ago in the immediate aftermath of the finale with your defense line - Do people always wear the same clothes when they dream?

Also that.

[Reaper16]

FYI - for those of you who aren't in the practice of studying literature or whatever - you support yourself based on the "text." What inside people think is fallacious reasoning. Basing an argument on what the author[s] even intended is fallacious reasoning (the intentional fallacy). What is the book/film/show actually saying?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

It did come across that way. But I'm going to give Dane the benefit of the doubt and guess that he didn't mean it that way.

But, for the record, I don't think that being an "industry" person makes you any more or less qualified to interpret and/or appreciate the show than a "civilian." The obvious exception being, an "industry" person who wrote and/or created the show.

What it means that people who work in the "industry" understand screenwriting.

I've read forever throughout this thread that the producers had absolutely no idea where this show was going, and I repeatedly said that they did.

It's not an insult. I wouldn't begin to try to tell an expert in auto mechanics or physics or nuclear engineering or any number of professions that they don't know what they're talking about.

But I DO work in film & TV and I DO understand screenwriting and its process and I DO understand just about everything about this business.

Again, I didn't mean to insult anyone but I'm kinda ****ing sick of being railed at for my understanding.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dude, I think that once again, I am finished with this conversation.

It seems that too many people are misinterpreting everything that I am stating and that people are becoming "angry" because they think I'm talking down to them.

The bottom line is this: LOST was a show that existed on several levels. I see the show entirely through the eyes of ONE man: Jack.

Other people see it differently and it appears that there is no common ground between the two, nor is there any reason for me to continue to reiterate myself repeatedly.

That's cool, man. Like I said before, I don't want to piss you off. I'm certainly not taking this personally. It's just healthy debate. But if you feel you've been misrepresented or misunderstood, I'd like to better understand your intentions. That's all.

It's just tv. And I'm fine with other having different interpretations than I do. I guess I'm just not following the logic of your POV.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

There's really no functional difference between a dream and whatever the mind constructs in the instant between life and death. Dane - you yourself seemed to understand this when you invoked the word dream many posts ago in the immediate aftermath of the finale with your defense line - Do people always wear the same clothes when they dream?

And...

Originally Posted by Reaper16

FYI - for those of you who aren't in the practice of studying literature or whatever - you support yourself based on the "text." What inside people think is fallacious reasoning. Basing an argument on what the author[s] even intended is fallacious reasoning (the intentional fallacy). What is the book/film/show actually saying?

Are solid posts, Reaper.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

What it means that people who work in the "industry" understand screenwriting.

I've read forever throughout this thread that the producers had absolutely no idea where this show was going, and I repeatedly said that they did.

It's not an insult. I wouldn't begin to try to tell an expert in auto mechanics or physics or nuclear engineering or any number of professions that they don't know what they're talking about.

But I DO work in film & TV and I DO understand screenwriting and it's process and I DO understand just about everything about this business.

Again, I didn't mean to insult anyone but I'm kinda ****ing sick of being railed at for my understanding.

I apologize if I've offended. As I said, I'm sure you didn't mean it exactly the way it was interpreted.

Believe me, sir, I also understand screenwriting. Very well. Since we both understand screenwriting and it's process so well, and we can't see eye to eye on this... what does that mean?