What exactly is Libertarian Polosophy?

[Snapper]

Sorry, I meant "philosophy"

I heard an interview with Harry Brown. He seemed very genuine, intelligent, and had several Ideas that I agree with. I don't want to waste a vote on him...but was intrigued.

can someone discuss briefly the main philosophy and where it stands vs dem or rep?



[This message has been edited by Iowanian (edited 10-05-2000).]

[ck_IN]

Drugs are perfect example of the idiocy of both current major parties. (Will qualify that I don't do drugs, or encourage anyone else to do so)

War on drugs. Untold billions, and personal freedoms spent on this war! Live in one of the most conservative, regligous cities in the country, and in 15 minutes could find and buy, any drug I wish to consume. Is this war working.

All it has done is artificially drive up price, create a monetary reason for gangs, and fill up our prisons so we have to let violent felons out early.

With an artificial high price most drug users can not afford their habit, and have to resort to crime to fund their addiction. Which raises the possiblity that me or my family become another crime statistic.

More crime, more drug enforcement, less personal freedoms. A vicious circle. No wonder neither party wants to get off their drug, of more control!

An example is cigarettes. Very addictive, but know of many people that function just fine in society on this substance. No one yet has attacked me or my family to get cigarette money. Although with our government recently getting involved in raising the cost, someday it may happen.

Not looking forward to the day the crips and bloods control the cigarette market!<P>

JC and Iowanian,

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The "non-functioning addict" is the one that needs the "safety net". I think it's safe to assume that if he needs govt. help to pay his health bill, then he probably doesn't have health insurance, which leads that he probably doesn't have a job, which means he doesn't PAY TAXES. How is this right?

Taxes, welfare, social security, it's all a joke in this country. If we were allowed to keep what we pay in taxes and invest it in health insurance, etc. then we can be RESPONSIBLE for ourselves. If that poor guy forgot to buy insurance and now he can't pay, I guess he's going to die isn't he? I know that's pretty harsh, but it's also pretty harsh that I pay for TAXES and INSURANCE, so that my neighbor can sit at home all day, drink beer, and watch TV on his satellite dish that he bought with MY money.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City[/i]
[i]More Moreau</I>

Just to clarify in light of htismaqe's remarks. I am not against a safety net for people in need. I do think that every effort should be made to assure that the safety net programs are run corruption-free.

My point was that a person who puts himself in a position to be a ward of state through the abuse of his own body has committed a crime of which I am a victim.

JC,

I'm against having that govt-privided safety net, but I agree that a person who does this is committing a crime against the decent taxpayers. His crime is not using drugs, however. That's a moral issue. His crime is not having a job, or having proper insurance, or otherwise being a "contributing" member of the system.

Personally, I think you should get out what you pay in. And if you don't pay in, you don't get anything out, period.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City[/i]
[i]More Moreau</I>

[One Arrowhead Dave]

I am considered a hardass on this subject, so you should not take these views as respective of the Libertarian philosophy. I’m talking mainline Gaz here.

If someone wants to ride his motorcycle without a helmet, I accept his right to do so. Forcing him to wear a helmet would be a violation, IMO. It is his brainpan and I don’t care if he cracks it open on the curb.

Now, if this fellow does crack open his head on the curb, he had better be able to pay cash for his medical treatment, because I would let him bleed out and die rather than take money away from folks who did not act in this irresponsible manner. He made his choice and I respect his right to do so, but I would not spend a dime of public money to correct his error in judgment.

The same applies to the smoker or the skydiver or anyone else CHOOSING to behavior that might harm them. As long as they do not harm any non-consenting adult, I do not care how they damage themselves. I will not pay to correct their mistakes, but I will not prevent them from making those mistakes.

When the dealer tries to sell to an underage kid, I slam in jail for the maximum sentence allowed by law. No parole, no time off for good behavior, no plea bargain. The same applies to the person who gets stoned and has a wreck or the fellow who abuses a prostitute.

Personal responsibility for personal choices. Make whatever choices you want FOR yourself, but be prepared to pay for the consequences of those decisions BY yourself.

xoxo~
gaz
willing to make those tough decisions.<BR>

[Snapper]

htis,

I loudly hear what you are saying. I don't want to go on a rant but, some of this welfare stuff irritates me like a jellyfish enema and powdered with a poison Ivy leaf....

My dad has managed 15 rental houses and a farm for a money man colorado for as long as I can remember. I spent several weekends doing maintinence and building decks etc.. through HS and college....One house in particular has been occupied by 1 family for 12 years. In that time, they haven't payed their own rent or light bill 1 time that I'm aware of.......and have a 51" big screen TV, fishing boat, trampoline......My own family has never had close to that many luxuries...The guy is 6' about 220 and looks pretty stout...just a lazy idiot....ON a Spring break, during drizzle, I worked on a deck for 2 days while he sat inside and watched TV.....When I started the railing, he had the nerve to come out and B!*** about the style I was building ...wanted me to tear it down and do it a differnt way, so "he and the wife could sit out there undisturbed"....

I'm not sure exactly how they remove skill saws from his @$$, but I'm positive they had to reverse his cranial-rectal inversion 1st...

I don't mind paying for elderly, simple and handicapped....but lazy and unmotivated just Pi$$es me off to no end..

[ck_IN]

Iowanian,

Take your examples point by point.

Cigarette and pot smoking costing tax payers money. Does it really. Lung cancer could be the antidote to our social security problems. Let everyone smoke, die before 65 and the social security problem is gone. It is the health nuts that live to a 100+ that are a drain on our resources. By the way, does it cost anymore in health coverage for a smoker to die at 65 than it does to cover a another person with a whole laundry list of ailments living to 90.

Not wearing seat belts should only cost the person that doesn't wear them. Wearing seat belts does not prevent accidents. Any person that is involved in an accident with out seat belts, should be the one that has their premiums dramatically raised, if higher medical costs were due to their actions. The person involved becomes the bigger risk, and premiums should reflect that. Insurance is like the current government, spread the fault evenly.

Prositution - Pimps wouldn't be needed if legal. Could be set up like any other business. Don't pay for services rendered, much like shop lifting you get arrested. STDs can be avoided if one wishes to do so, take the risk, YOU pay the price. Victimless crime.

Should we raise taxes on, or out law Big Macs. Lack of moderation can lead to obiesity, heart problems, low self esteem and depression. All could cause a drain on public resources.

Should we be responsible for all that people do? Should we legislate against every thing we don't like. Using the it "costs all of us money" is big government way to gain more control.

[KCTitus]

Red Till Dead,

Very well put.

Htismaqe,

There is not going to be a perfect system. That being said since you seemed VERY concerned about your tax dollars (as I am too)You should be concerned about our prisoner base going from 200K in this country in 1979 to over 2Million this year. Multiply this by 34k a year to house the drug smoking assailant and start worrying about that. The safty net should have to be paid back with interest whenever these clowns are re-habilitated. Even If they all of them never paid back a cent it couldn't be more expensive than our current situation.

[Hoover]

More information on the US Libertarian party.

[url="http://www.lp.org/"]http://www.lp.org/[/url] <P>

I see what you're saying, but I don't see the logic in incarcerating someone who have 8 marijuana plants in his basement for 40 years.

The average murderer in America spends 25 years, with parole after 7. The average marijuana grower spends 35 with parole after 13. Does that make sense?

Nothing around here seems to make sense anymore. I never said that any system is perfect, but common sense dictates that there can be some "happy medium". I agree that there's certain people that NEED to be taken care of. But I can't afford to take care of my elderly parent's, or my down-syndrome brother, and the government doesn't give them what they NEED because they're too busy writing checks to my jobless, lazy neighbor.

I agree with Gaz.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]
[i]Jimmy Raye for President...anything to get him out of Kansas City[/i]
[i]More Moreau</I>

[KCTitus]

htismage,
Just to give you an idea on how bad the restrictions on our liberties has become. Log on [url="http://www.LP.org"]www.LP.org[/url] and click on the seatbelt link.<BR>

[One Arrowhead Dave]

Hasta, y’all.

Another day done, another day closer to blessed retirement.

xoxo~
gaz
outta here.<BR>