Chiefs Teicher: Pioli wants Chiefs’ signings to send a message to the team... - Page 4

DaWolf · 03-22-2010, 11:09 PM

Pioli wants Chiefs’ signings to send a message to the team

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/22...#ixzz0iyPMGsJP

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

ORLANDO, Fla. | Job No. 1 for Scott Pioli remains to change the losing culture that inevitably permeates an organization after it wins 10 games in three seasons, as the Chiefs have done.

The best way to continue that process, he decided, was to rock everybody’s world. Pioli, the Chiefs’ general manager, appears to have accomplished that with the team’s first free-agent signing.

Thomas Jones, a veteran running back who rushed for more than 1,400 yards last season, plays the same position as Jamaal Charles, who finished last season in a spectacular manner and was chosen the team’s most valuable player.

The message, Pioli said at the NFL meetings, was not aimed at Charles so much as everyone. That message: No matter what you’ve accomplished, don’t get too comfortable.

“I can’t tell you whether Jamaal will play more or Thomas Jones will play more,” Pioli said. “The roles will figure themselves out. The best players will play. The players will sort that out themselves. We’re trying to do this at every position. Look at the offensive line now. There are a number of players there that can start.

“Everyone is competing for jobs. That’s how teams get better.”

Pioli spent nine seasons as personnel director for the Patriots before he joined the Chiefs last year. Together with coach Bill Belichick, Pioli was charged with changing a similar culture in New England.

He told a story about New England signing a free agent to compete with an established starter in one of his first seasons with the Patriots. The incumbent publicly complained about the lack of respect his employers were showing.

“It uncovered a reality of the culture there that was very unhealthy,” Pioli said. “That was something we weren’t going to tolerate.”

Pioli said he has no concrete examples of Chiefs players feeling the same sense of entitlement but has no doubt it’s there.

“In the last 14 months, it’s been palpable,” Pioli said. “You can sense certain people seem or appear to have a degree of entitlement. The reality is that none of us are entitled to anything. We have to go out and prove ourselves every day in our jobs, all of us.”

Charles rushed for almost 1,000 yards over last season’s final eight games after taking over as the featured back from Larry Johnson. His 259 rushing yards in the final game against Denver set a franchise record.

The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus.

New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away.

“We can’t always dictate the timing of a signing,” Pioli said. “He had just been released. This was the meeting point of need and opportunity. The player wanted to be here. We wanted him. We felt it was an upgrade. We said from the beginning we’re always going to try to create competition within our organization. This was not a statement about any other player.

“He’s still a very good player. He’s a very competitive, smart, tough player. He fits exactly what we’re looking for.”

The Chiefs face a similar situation with the free-agent signing of veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who previously played for the Chiefs from 2001 through 2007.

That move affects incumbent center Rudy Niswanger, who for the first time since he became a starter faces serious competition for his starting spot.
“Don’t make it out to be some sort of ominous sign that means this player is on the way out,” Pioli said. “Here’s what it means for Rudy: It means there’s going to be stiff competition for his position just like every other player has. We’re trying to get better.

“That competition will sort itself out. We’re trying to put the five best offensive linemen that fit out on the field. Other than that, we’re not going to be boxed into anything.”

Wiegmann played two seasons for Denver after leaving the Chiefs. The Broncos released him after last season’s end in part because they believed at 285 pounds he had trouble standing his ground against increasingly large defensive tackles.

But Pioli said the Chiefs saw the situation differently.

“He played well last season,” Pioli said. “He was effective. We went back and watched games specifically against some of the bigger players and the bigger nose tackles and Casey played well. He’s a very smart, crafty football player and still a solid starter in the National Football League.”

Including guard Ryan Lilja, the Chiefs now have four players with extensive starting experience for the three inside spots on their offensive line.

Lilja and Brian Waters figure to start at guard, leaving Wiegmann and Niswanger to compete at center.

In addition to Jones, Wiegmann and Lilja, the Chiefs signed wide receiver Jerheme Urban and defensive tackle Shaun Smith and re-signed two of their own free agents, linebacker Mike Vrabel and wide receiver Chris Chambers.

In keeping with the pattern Pioli set with the Patriots and last year with the Chiefs, none will make big money. Lilja gets $7.5 million over three years, Jones $5 million over two.

Chambers ($1.9 million) and Vrabel ($1.6 million) will get make less than $2 million in base salary this year. Wiegmann ($855,000) can climb to about $2 million with incentives if he winds up as the starter.

Urban and Smith will each make $630,000.

While Pioli was with the Patriots, rarely did New England distort its salary structure for free agents. The Patriots were willing to pay big money to their own players they wanted to retain.

“I wouldn’t say I’m satisfied with what we’ve done but I’m encouraged that we’ve done some things to make our football team better,” Pioli said. “When I say better, I feel we’re better in the locker room and I feel that we’re better on the field.”

WildTurkey · 03-23-2010, 05:04 PM

A thread with a lot of people bitching.... am I in the right place? I swear I clicked on chiefsplanet
Posted via Mobile Device

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forward Dante

Like LJ playing over Charles?

From what I remember, according to pretty much everybody who watched him in during workouts in KC or at camp (I did not...) he was supposedly a "changed man" who'd bought into the new philosophy and was busting his ass off to earn his job. 'course, in the end, he was just a psycho as always, but it was never presented as some kind of situation where he was just handed a job.

And actually Dane brings up Bowe, albeit for another reason, and he's the perfect example of non-entitlement. Same for Albert and his weight loss. This sort of tougher work ethic and everybody competing is something that started in 2009. We saw all sorts of examples of it last year during camp, when they were running those guys ragged. Wasn't there a vet o-linemen who didn't even make the team because he didn't want to do all the running?

Big change from Vermeil's veteran camp/wine-tasting and Herm was purportedly even easier on them.

**DeezNutz** · 03-23-2010, 05:40 PM

Whoa, Vermeil was not someone who ran "easy" practices, but he was someone who was petrified of rookies.

So there's a bit of balance there.

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Whoa, Vermeil was not someone who ran "easy" practices, but he was someone who was petrified of rookies.

So there's a bit of balance there.

I've slept a lot since then, but if memory serves, he ran long practices, but I'm not sure how "hard" they were, from a conditioning standpoint. I also seem to remember that he regularly let veterans sit out, to keep from taxing them. This is even more subjective, but I don't remember thinking at any time that that team had any special degree of toughness, either. I remember a kind of softness that I was hoping Herm might offset (being a defensive-mind coach; I'm sure I talked about this in 2006), but he only seemed to make it worse.

I know a lot of people mock the "right 53" thing, but I actually really like that approach, at least in theory, finding (talented) players who'll buy into the system and fight their asses off. I think that's something that's been missing here for a long, long time. A team that will knock you on your ass. Or rather, a talented team that will knock you on your ass. I still believe that's the ultimate failure of Vermeil's tenure here; the cerebral, "I'm going to out-finesse (and out-stat...) you" approach rather than an "I'm going to line up and beat you" attitude.

But that's a tangent.

**BossChief** · 03-23-2010, 06:15 PM

Vermeils practices were as hard as I have seen in the NFL. Im sure those that went know what Im talking about. Especially his first couple years here.

Whew. Tough.

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 06:16 PM

I thought everybody used Marty as the benchmark for ridiculous practices?

(I wasn't here for him. Fortunately.)

**DeezNutz** · 03-23-2010, 06:21 PM

Arguably one of the biggest misconceptions about the Vermeil era is that the team was "soft."

Evidence A: o-line.

These mother****er were as tough and nasty as they come. Entire group of ass-beaters.

Vermeil, relatively speaking, was a worthless sack of ****ing shit (in KC), but don't let all the hugs and tears fool you.

Marty gained fame for "toughness" because of his implementation of the Oklahoma drill and his relentless attention to detail. If you need to win a single regular season game, I can't think of a better coach than Marty. Mother****er can coach his ass off.

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 07:21 PM

It wasn't a misconception at all. The individual players may have been nasty - and I don't think anybody in the entire NFL is "soft," in that sense - but that team was not tough, as a whole. Sure, they had the occasional game where they came out and made a statement (hi, Ray Lewis), but that team was a lot of flash and sizzle. And there's nothing wrong with that, except that there was never any nasty in the way they played as a team. It was more obvious with the defense, of course. Late game collapse after late game collapse. But it was that way with the offense, too. They could spread the field and confuse the defense from dusk til dawn, but the one thing they could never do consistently is line up and just straight-up knock the other team off the ball when all they needed was that one yard.

And Marty's a clown.

**DeezNutz** · 03-23-2010, 07:24 PM

The defense was "soft" because of a lot of LOFT--lack of ****ing talent. The majority of the money went to the offensive side.

And the offense couldn't consistently knock people off the ball? I honestly could not disagree more.

There isn't anyone on this board who disliked Grandpa more, but saying his teams were soft is just plain inaccurate.

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

The defense was "soft" because of a lot of LOFT--lack of ****ing talent.

And the offense couldn't consistently knock people off the ball? I honestly could not disagree more.

Not when it counted, they couldn't. That was not an offense built for a close game in the 4th quarter, trying to hold the ball to win. Come from behind, keep a shootout close, sure. But they were kind of the anti-marty, exact opposite problem he had. If we could find a way to blend Marty and Dick, we'd have the perfect coach.

Quote:

There isn't anyone on this board who disliked Grandpa more, but saying his teams were soft is just plain inaccurate.

Sorry, bud, but that's my opinion, and it ain't changing...

I've felt that way for years. That team was all about mind-games, rather than going out and just beating the other team. That's what I mean when I talk about toughness. Chess matches over football. Big stats over winning.

**DeezNutz** · 03-23-2010, 07:38 PM

I think you're seeing the difference between a tough as hell offense and a tough as hell defense. Nothing more.

That offensive line could pretty much do what it wanted to, when it wanted to. It was a True Fan's wet dream.

Chiefaholic · 03-23-2010, 07:42 PM

The more I read quotes from the media, the more I think we're drafting Clausen with the #5 overall. The Chiefs brass doesn't have the nads to take a safety that high, despite the game changing potential Berry brings. I honestly don't think Cassell's salary will be an issue in our first pick given the room we have under the cap. And if Clark wants national attention on game day, he HAS to get somebody in here that makes people WANT to watch the Chiefs on Monday night. That's why I think Clausen will be #5...

Rasputin · 03-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Let me get this right (Pioli) Bring in a vet who has had a good career but just has a little bit left in the tank. He beats out the rooky or younger player who has upside leaves him on the bench so he doesn't get better or playing time. Then the vet shows his age and doesn't perform as well. Then throw in the rooky late in the season and make him prove himself with only a few games left.

My philosophy, let the kids who have potential to be better than the vets play. So that they learn and get better, so that they get experiance & chohesiveness (sp) something like that. IMO the players Herm got in the draft were better than the vets Pioli and Haley got. They just needed coached up and playing time.
The young players can grow with the team and get better, the vets get old and rust out. Compitition is good but sometimes if you got a guy that has potential to be better you play him. JMHO

Mecca · 03-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefaholic

The more I read quotes from the media, the more I think we're drafting Clausen with the #5 overall. The Chiefs brass doesn't have the nads to take a safety that high, despite the game changing potential Berry brings. I honestly don't think Cassell's salary will be an issue in our first pick given the room we have under the cap. And if Clark wants national attention on game day, he HAS to get somebody in here that makes people WANT to watch the Chiefs on Monday night. That's why I think Clausen will be #5...

In case you missed it...there is no salary cap.

keg in kc · 03-23-2010, 07:47 PM

I think there's a disconnect here that's probably my fault for not being clear enough. When I talk about "toughness", I'm not talking about a physical attribute. I'm talking about a psychological one. Toughness as in willpower, as in an ability to overcome adversity. And I think that's something the Chiefs have been missing for the decade plus that I've watched them. I see it in the way they carry themselves on the field and on the sideline. I think it's reflected to a degree in the way the fans have this "what's next?" attitude. What bad draft pick are they going to make? How are they going to blow this game? That "here we go again" look they get late in games when, inevitably, everything falls apart. How we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because since the late 90s, the other shoe does always drop. Because the team lacks....something. Not just talent. Some of it's knowing how to win. Some of it's swagger. Maybe "toughness" is a bad word, but it's the one I've always used.

03-22-2010, 11:09 PM
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Teicher: Pioli wants Chiefs’ signings to send a message to the team... Pioli wants Chiefs’ signings to send a message to the team Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/22...#ixzz0iyPMGsJP By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star ORLANDO, Fla. \| Job No. 1 for Scott Pioli remains to change the losing culture that inevitably permeates an organization after it wins 10 games in three seasons, as the Chiefs have done. The best way to continue that process, he decided, was to rock everybody’s world. Pioli, the Chiefs’ general manager, appears to have accomplished that with the team’s first free-agent signing. Thomas Jones, a veteran running back who rushed for more than 1,400 yards last season, plays the same position as Jamaal Charles, who finished last season in a spectacular manner and was chosen the team’s most valuable player. The message, Pioli said at the NFL meetings, was not aimed at Charles so much as everyone. That message: No matter what you’ve accomplished, don’t get too comfortable. “I can’t tell you whether Jamaal will play more or Thomas Jones will play more,” Pioli said. “The roles will figure themselves out. The best players will play. The players will sort that out themselves. We’re trying to do this at every position. Look at the offensive line now. There are a number of players there that can start. “Everyone is competing for jobs. That’s how teams get better.” Pioli spent nine seasons as personnel director for the Patriots before he joined the Chiefs last year. Together with coach Bill Belichick, Pioli was charged with changing a similar culture in New England. He told a story about New England signing a free agent to compete with an established starter in one of his first seasons with the Patriots. The incumbent publicly complained about the lack of respect his employers were showing. “It uncovered a reality of the culture there that was very unhealthy,” Pioli said. “That was something we weren’t going to tolerate.” Pioli said he has no concrete examples of Chiefs players feeling the same sense of entitlement but has no doubt it’s there. “In the last 14 months, it’s been palpable,” Pioli said. “You can sense certain people seem or appear to have a degree of entitlement. The reality is that none of us are entitled to anything. We have to go out and prove ourselves every day in our jobs, all of us.” Charles rushed for almost 1,000 yards over last season’s final eight games after taking over as the featured back from Larry Johnson. His 259 rushing yards in the final game against Denver set a franchise record. The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus. New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away. “We can’t always dictate the timing of a signing,” Pioli said. “He had just been released. This was the meeting point of need and opportunity. The player wanted to be here. We wanted him. We felt it was an upgrade. We said from the beginning we’re always going to try to create competition within our organization. This was not a statement about any other player. “He’s still a very good player. He’s a very competitive, smart, tough player. He fits exactly what we’re looking for.” The Chiefs face a similar situation with the free-agent signing of veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who previously played for the Chiefs from 2001 through 2007. That move affects incumbent center Rudy Niswanger, who for the first time since he became a starter faces serious competition for his starting spot. “Don’t make it out to be some sort of ominous sign that means this player is on the way out,” Pioli said. “Here’s what it means for Rudy: It means there’s going to be stiff competition for his position just like every other player has. We’re trying to get better. “That competition will sort itself out. We’re trying to put the five best offensive linemen that fit out on the field. Other than that, we’re not going to be boxed into anything.” Wiegmann played two seasons for Denver after leaving the Chiefs. The Broncos released him after last season’s end in part because they believed at 285 pounds he had trouble standing his ground against increasingly large defensive tackles. But Pioli said the Chiefs saw the situation differently. “He played well last season,” Pioli said. “He was effective. We went back and watched games specifically against some of the bigger players and the bigger nose tackles and Casey played well. He’s a very smart, crafty football player and still a solid starter in the National Football League.” Including guard Ryan Lilja, the Chiefs now have four players with extensive starting experience for the three inside spots on their offensive line. Lilja and Brian Waters figure to start at guard, leaving Wiegmann and Niswanger to compete at center. In addition to Jones, Wiegmann and Lilja, the Chiefs signed wide receiver Jerheme Urban and defensive tackle Shaun Smith and re-signed two of their own free agents, linebacker Mike Vrabel and wide receiver Chris Chambers. In keeping with the pattern Pioli set with the Patriots and last year with the Chiefs, none will make big money. Lilja gets $7.5 million over three years, Jones $5 million over two. Chambers ($1.9 million) and Vrabel ($1.6 million) will get make less than $2 million in base salary this year. Wiegmann ($855,000) can climb to about $2 million with incentives if he winds up as the starter. Urban and Smith will each make $630,000. While Pioli was with the Patriots, rarely did New England distort its salary structure for free agents. The Patriots were willing to pay big money to their own players they wanted to retain. “I wouldn’t say I’m satisfied with what we’ve done but I’m encouraged that we’ve done some things to make our football team better,” Pioli said. “When I say better, I feel we’re better in the locker room and I feel that we’re better on the field.”
Posts: 6,798

03-23-2010, 05:04 PM	#46
WildTurkey I'm done Chiefs, Go Pack Go Join Date: May 2009 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $10004900	A thread with a lot of people bitching.... am I in the right place? I swear I clicked on chiefsplanet Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 2,008

03-23-2010, 06:15 PM	#50
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1714088	Vermeils practices were as hard as I have seen in the NFL. Im sure those that went know what Im talking about. Especially his first couple years here. Whew. Tough. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,150

03-23-2010, 06:16 PM	#51
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I thought everybody used Marty as the benchmark for ridiculous practices? (I wasn't here for him. Fortunately.)
Posts: 58,682

03-23-2010, 07:21 PM	#53
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	It wasn't a misconception at all. The individual players may have been nasty - and I don't think anybody in the entire NFL is "soft," in that sense - but that team was not tough, as a whole. Sure, they had the occasional game where they came out and made a statement (hi, Ray Lewis), but that team was a lot of flash and sizzle. And there's nothing wrong with that, except that there was never any nasty in the way they played as a team. It was more obvious with the defense, of course. Late game collapse after late game collapse. But it was that way with the offense, too. They could spread the field and confuse the defense from dusk til dawn, but the one thing they could never do consistently is line up and just straight-up knock the other team off the ball when all they needed was that one yard. And Marty's a clown.
Posts: 58,682

03-23-2010, 07:42 PM	#57
Chiefaholic Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $3121169	The more I read quotes from the media, the more I think we're drafting Clausen with the #5 overall. The Chiefs brass doesn't have the nads to take a safety that high, despite the game changing potential Berry brings. I honestly don't think Cassell's salary will be an issue in our first pick given the room we have under the cap. And if Clark wants national attention on game day, he HAS to get somebody in here that makes people WANT to watch the Chiefs on Monday night. That's why I think Clausen will be #5... __________________
Posts: 4,641

03-23-2010, 07:45 PM	#58
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $3315421	Let me get this right (Pioli) Bring in a vet who has had a good career but just has a little bit left in the tank. He beats out the rooky or younger player who has upside leaves him on the bench so he doesn't get better or playing time. Then the vet shows his age and doesn't perform as well. Then throw in the rooky late in the season and make him prove himself with only a few games left. My philosophy, let the kids who have potential to be better than the vets play. So that they learn and get better, so that they get experiance & chohesiveness (sp) something like that. IMO the players Herm got in the draft were better than the vets Pioli and Haley got. They just needed coached up and playing time. The young players can grow with the team and get better, the vets get old and rust out. Compitition is good but sometimes if you got a guy that has potential to be better you play him. JMHO
Posts: 54,977

03-23-2010, 07:47 PM	#60
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I think there's a disconnect here that's probably my fault for not being clear enough. When I talk about "toughness", I'm not talking about a physical attribute. I'm talking about a psychological one. Toughness as in willpower, as in an ability to overcome adversity. And I think that's something the Chiefs have been missing for the decade plus that I've watched them. I see it in the way they carry themselves on the field and on the sideline. I think it's reflected to a degree in the way the fans have this "what's next?" attitude. What bad draft pick are they going to make? How are they going to blow this game? That "here we go again" look they get late in games when, inevitably, everything falls apart. How we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because since the late 90s, the other shoe does always drop. Because the team lacks....something. Not just talent. Some of it's knowing how to win. Some of it's swagger. Maybe "toughness" is a bad word, but it's the one I've always used.
Posts: 58,682