Particles found to break speed of light

[Donger]

http://news.yahoo.com/particles-reco...164441657.html

GENEVA (Reuters) - An international team of scientists said on Thursday they had recorded sub-atomic particles traveling faster than light -- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe.

Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, told Reuters that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.

"We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."

If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.

That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works.

The totally unexpected finding emerged from research by a physicists working on an experiment dubbed OPERA run jointly by the CERN particle research center near Geneva and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy.

A total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos -- tiny particles that pervade the cosmos -- were fired over a period of 3 years from CERN toward Gran Sasso 730 (500 miles) km away, where they were picked up by giant detectors.

Light would have covered the distance in around 2.4 thousandths of a second, but the neutrinos took 60 nanoseconds -- or 60 billionths of a second -- less than light beams would have taken.

"It is a tiny difference," said Ereditato, who also works at Berne University in Switzerland, "but conceptually it is incredibly important. The finding is so startling that, for the moment, everybody should be very prudent."

Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct.

"I just don't want to think of the implications," he told Reuters. "We are scientists and work with what we know."

Much science-fiction literature is based on the idea that, if the light-speed barrier can be overcome, time travel might theoretically become possible.

The existence of the neutrino, an elementary sub-atomic particle with a tiny amount of mass created in radioactive decay or in nuclear reactions such as those in the Sun, was first confirmed in 1934, but it still mystifies researchers.

It can pass through most matter undetected, even over long distances, and without being affected. Millions pass through the human body every day, scientists say.

To reach Gran Sasso, the neutrinos pushed out from a special installation at CERN -- also home to the Large Hadron Collider probing the origins of the universe -- have to pass through water, air and rock.

The underground Italian laboratory, some 120 km (75 miles) to the south of Rome, is the largest of its type in the world for particle physics and cosmic research.

Around 750 scientists from 22 different countries work there, attracted by the possibility of staging experiments in its three massive halls, protected from cosmic rays by some 1,400 metres (4,200 feet) of rock overhead.

[lostcause]

I think it is incorrect of the article to say that this finding (if true) undermines the special theory of relativity. By expanding the capabilities of the universe to exceed that theory in highly specialized environments only show it is merely limited, not that it is inherently wrong.

It's like saying relativity undermined copernicus's theory of gravity - when all it did was expand upon it and take it to a new level.

Btw - fantastic if true.

[Fish]

I've always felt that it was silly of us to think that in our current brief stage of evolution, that we could say with any confidence that "c" or any other figure, was the absolute fastest possible speed in the universe.

We have so much to learn... I'm just glad we're seeing so much cool shit during our lifetimes...

[Rain Man]

We had the speed of sound, and then we had the speed of light. Next up: the speed of smell.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

We had the speed of sound, and then we had the speed of light. Next up: the speed of smell.

Insta-stink FTW!

[FAX]

I've always considered it interesting that Einstein's "theory" of relativity is just that ... a "theory".

A theory is, essentially, a belief or a supposition. The more plausible the "theory", the more generally accepted it is, of course. But, so far as I know, the scientific community never referred to it as Einstein's Fact Of Relativity.

FAX

[notorious]

Originally Posted by notorious

I believe that we will figure out how to travel faster then light without the use of wormholes someday.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...speed+of+light

This is it!


Thread is a good read.

[threebag]

Originally Posted by Crush

Yes, but can these sub-atomic particles travel faster than the Speed of Love?

Depends if GoChiefs is pumping you the love

[4th and Long]

Originally Posted by blaise

Yeah, Einstein, you ****ing dumbass.

Colonel Sandurz: Prepare ship for light speed.
Dark Helmet: No, no, no, light speed is too slow.
Colonel Sandurz: Light speed, too slow?
Dark Helmet: Yes, we're gonna have to go right to nutrino speed!!!

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by Donger

Pretty much. Einstein was and is wrong.

WE GOT GOD UP IN DIS MOTHA ****A!

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

We should be prudent in all things.

Its like a black fly in your Chardonnay...

[aturnis]

How many of Einstein's law are still holding up? This isn't his first that's been debunked.

[scorpio]

Originally Posted by FAX

I've always considered it interesting that Einstein's "theory" of relativity is just that ... a "theory".

A theory is, essentially, a belief or a supposition. The more plausible the "theory", the more generally accepted it is, of course. But, so far as I know, the scientific community never referred to it as Einstein's Fact Of Relativity.

FAX

FAX, you seem like a good guy. But this is a dumb post.

Not because it's wrong, but because you are stating the obvious.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by scorpio

FAX, you seem like a good guy. But this is a dumb post.

Not because it's wrong, but because you are stating the obvious.

Ooops, n00b insults the legend.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by scorpio

FAX, you seem like a good guy. But this is a dumb post.

Not because it's wrong, but because you are stating the obvious.

Years ago, Mr. scorpio, when I was a mere N00b (sp?), I not only learned that William Carlos Williams was certifiably insane and a person whose work should be avoided at all costs, I also became acutely aware that stating the obvious is often necessary here on ChiefsPlanet. As I matured as a poster, I later came to realize that some people suffer from such severe, singular, one-dimensional thinking that they cannot see beyond the literal wording of each post they read. These are the posters, by the way, who tend to kill conversation while adding nothing to the discussion themselves.

With that in mind, please allow me to elaborate on my prior comment;

The scientific community (as I'm sure you are aware) have universally accepted Einstein's "theories" (both special and general) as a sort of gold standard in physics. It is taught as fundamental truth in most schools and physicists who have followed Einstein have sought to build upon his work.

Not only that, it's probably safe to say that, over the last 90 or so years, most assumptions made involving particle research, electrodynamics, cosmology, etc. are essentially based upon the "theory". This is due, no doubt, to the "fact" that, according to Einstein himself, the mathematics supporting relativity allow for no deviation. None. And this "fact" has been generally assumed by the scientific community since Einstein published.

Were this not the case, thoughtful persons would neither be shocked nor surprised to learn that the bases of the "theory" can be proven false.

To make it even clearer (hopefully), when or if Einstein is ultimately found to be wrong, much of the research which flowed from his "theory" is little more than a glass house built upon a glass foundation inhabited by glassholes not unlike yourself.

FAX

[CrazyPhuD]

I totally believe it. I've witnessed particles exceeding the speed of light personally, although it usually happens after eating a burrito from a particular taco truck.