Chiefs leading the Surtain Race

[Archie Bunker]

Thoughts?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2005/02/27/a8b_nflru_0227.html

Chiefs lead possible Surtain suitors
The Dolphins are closer to dealing the All-Pro cornerback and defensive tackle Jeff Zgonina.
By Greg A. Bedard, Joe Schad

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, February 27, 2005

INDIANAPOLIS — There has been progress in the search for a team willing to trade for Dolphins Pro Bowl cornerback Patrick Surtain.

The Kansas City Chiefs, Indianapolis Colts and Oakland Raiders are among many teams that have expressed an interest in Surtain, who asked for and received permission to seek a trade. The Chiefs, who would be in a position to trade their second-round pick (46th overall), are the favorite at this point, according to a league source.

[tk13]

Guh. I guess it would be the most surefire way of getting somebody without getting into a bidding war, and Carl sucks at 2nd round picks, but considering we don't have a 3rd I don't think I like this move.... unless we bring in a 2nd cornerback in FA somehow.

[Archie Bunker]

Any idea on how much he is going to want? I would rather have Smoot, Rolle, or Lucas myself.

[KevB]

Guh. I guess it would be the most surefire way of getting somebody without getting into a bidding war, and Carl sucks at 2nd round picks, but considering we don't have a 3rd I don't think I like this move.... unless we bring in a 2nd cornerback in FA somehow.

It is strange with guys on the open market that we're willing to give up a 2nd rounder. Maybe the report is erroneous, who knows. I'm not going to complain about it until it plays out.

[RealSNR]

I remember when we could've had Zgonina for less than that shit in a bag Holliday

[whoman69]

I don't favor trading for picks, it doesn't bode well for the future. It is a 2nd rounder and Karl hasn't had a decent 2nd rounder in more than a dozen years.

[Rausch]

Any idea on how much he is going to want? I would rather have Smoot, Rolle, or Lucas myself.

I wouldn't.

[Archie Bunker]

I wouldn't.

His knee problem worries me. I have to admit I never watch the Dolphins so he might be better than I give him credit for.

[cheeeefs]

not excited about giving up a 2nd rounder for him. But personally I would rather have him than any other CB out there all things considered. If we do get him you won't hear any complaining from me!

[Rausch]

His knee problem worries me. I have to admit I never watch the Dolphins so he might be better than I give him credit for.

He's much better, but like you said, he does have a medical issue to think about.

And I don't have a narrowed down argument against Smoot, I've just never been that impressed. I'm not saying he's bad, he just never did anything to make me believe he was an elite player. Like you, I could be wrong, and God knows ANY free agent would be better than Bartee or McClingon...

[ZootedGranny]

If Miami is going to take a mid 2nd rounder for Surtain straight up, the trade needed to be done yesterday. I'd prefer Smoot in FA, but Surtain is no damn slouch.

[bricks]

His knee problem worries me. I have to admit I never watch the Dolphins so he might be better than I give him credit for.

Ahh injuries are a part of the game. It's football man, guys are going to take their shots. Priest Holmes has had several injuries during his career. And he's great, productive. Not too many ppl worry about him now do they? Surtain is outstanding. Law or Surtain. Either or, I'd be very, very happy.

[teedubya]

How Old is Surtain?

[bricks]

How Old is Surtain?

28 years old

[cheeeefs]

http://www.miamidolphins.com/lockerroom/teamroster/playerBio.asp?docid=9778

[cheeeefs]

and he hasn't had any injuries that were "scary" he only missed one game last season with a groin injury.

this guy is solid, he would definately definately definately help us out.

[booger]

If we go the Surtain route I would rather see us give up a 4th or 5th this year with a conditional pick next year kinda like the Welbourn deal. I don't think that is too bad considering his knee issues.
Depends on what other teams are offering. Regardless if we do get him before march 2nd, we could concentrate on LB and hopefully Hartwell.

It would be nice if anyone local had some news on this. Maybe that lazy b!tch teicher will have something in about an hour. :cuss:

[DaWolf]

Guh. I guess it would be the most surefire way of getting somebody without getting into a bidding war, and Carl sucks at 2nd round picks, but considering we don't have a 3rd I don't think I like this move.... unless we bring in a 2nd cornerback in FA somehow.
If we have the 10 or 11 picks we're supposed to get (depending on what we get as compensation for Tait) we can trade away the 2nd rounder and still package enough to trade up on draft day back into the late 2nd or 3rd round.

Considering we traded draft picks for Trent Green and Vermeil (which basically made us sign Priest Holmes as an alternative since we weren't going to be able to draft a back) I think it shows that you can make up for losing draft picks if you pick up the right guy for them or in their place. Frankly, a 2nd rounder probably wouldn't do much for us this year anyway, and we need an impact this year, not in 3 years...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I say go for it.

And call me a fun starter, but I think (mostly hope) the Chiefs will get one via free agency as well. By doing this, Carl will be in less of a bidding war and will have a head start in defensive FAs, IMO.

How does Surtain and Smoot look as Chiefs with Warfield as nickle? Or Surtain and Rolle, then Warfield nickle? Or for you Law fans, how does Surtain and Law stack up for you, with Warfield at nickle?

One can dream, hehe. I think the Chiefs can make enough room to get 2 FA CBs and a LB, and possible a WR, then draft a DE high, maybe another CB...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

"Completing the deal would be complicated, but certainly possible. Not only do the Dolphins have to agree to the terms of the trade, but Surtain's agent, Gary Uberstine, who is at the NFL combine, would also have to agree to the financial terms."


This part was left out.

[bringbackmarty]

yeah, with the news that law ain't walkin' yet, surtain may be our best choice, thogh I might take woodson. It comes down to the doctors. whoever is most able to help this season.

[Valiant]

He's much better, but like you said, he does have a medical issue to think about.

And I don't have a narrowed down argument against Smoot, I've just never been that impressed. I'm not saying he's bad, he just never did anything to make me believe he was an elite player. Like you, I could be wrong, and God knows ANY free agent would be better than Bartee or McClingon...


I want both... with warfield at nickle...

[David.]

I could live with Surtain and Warfield at CB, and Hartwell at MLB.

[David.]

as long as we draft a cb 1 round. Not sure what we'd do about LE though :hmmm:

[SBK]

I saw Payton Manning once say Surtain was the best corner cover he'd ever faced.

[booger]

DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK


Chiefs work to obtain Surtain

By JASON COLE

jcole@herald.com


Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

Peterson declined to discuss the matter, but he is also aware of what the Dolphins want as compensation. The Chiefs have the No. 15 overall pick in the first round but are unlikely to give up that high a pick.

More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.

Uberstine could not be reached for comment. Surtain is hoping to get a signing bonus of between $12 million and $14 million as part of a contract extension.

''There are other teams who have expressed interest, a number of teams,'' a source said. ``But it's fair to say that the Chiefs have shown the strongest interest to this point.''

The Dolphins are hoping to trade Surtain before Wednesday so they can avoid having to pay him a $300,000 roster bonus, but that might just be a matter of convenience. The roster bonus won't stop the Dolphins from making a deal after that and won't force the deal to happen faster than necessary.

More important to the Dolphins is to clear most of the $8.4 million salary cap hit Surtain is scheduled to cost them for the 2005 season. The official league year begins Wednesday and that sum would inhibit the Dolphins from doing any extensive shopping in free agency.

The Dolphins can clear between $5.8 million and $6.1 million depending on when they deal Surtain. The hope was that the Dolphins would be able to get at least a low first-round pick for Surtain, but that might be generous at this point. THIS AND THAT

• Offensive tackle Damion McIntosh's agent, Steve Feldman, said he spoke with the Dolphins again about a restructured contract for McIntosh.

There remains a possibility that McIntosh would accept a reworked deal if the incentive package could be worked out to allow him to reasonably earn most of the $3.5 million he was scheduled to make in 2005.

McIntosh was married Saturday and would like to remain in South Florida where he grew up.

• Linebacker Junior Seau is expected to accept the Dolphins' offer to restructure his contract to one year at $1.5 million and another $500,000 in incentives.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, had hoped to generate interest from Kansas City, but the Chiefs have passed.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm

Note: Site takes same username and password as KC star site. :thumb:

[LTownChief]

I would without a doubt take a 2nd rounder for Surtain, would you rather have him or Rashaan Shehee, Kawika Mitchelll, Mike Cloud, or William Bartee. all of whom have been a recent second round pick? I say YES take the proven 28 yr old vet,

[Chiefs Pantalones]

DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK


Chiefs work to obtain Surtain

By JASON COLE

jcole@herald.com


Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

Peterson declined to discuss the matter, but he is also aware of what the Dolphins want as compensation. The Chiefs have the No. 15 overall pick in the first round but are unlikely to give up that high a pick.

More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.

Uberstine could not be reached for comment. Surtain is hoping to get a signing bonus of between $12 million and $14 million as part of a contract extension.

''There are other teams who have expressed interest, a number of teams,'' a source said. ``But it's fair to say that the Chiefs have shown the strongest interest to this point.''

The Dolphins are hoping to trade Surtain before Wednesday so they can avoid having to pay him a $300,000 roster bonus, but that might just be a matter of convenience. The roster bonus won't stop the Dolphins from making a deal after that and won't force the deal to happen faster than necessary.

More important to the Dolphins is to clear most of the $8.4 million salary cap hit Surtain is scheduled to cost them for the 2005 season. The official league year begins Wednesday and that sum would inhibit the Dolphins from doing any extensive shopping in free agency.

The Dolphins can clear between $5.8 million and $6.1 million depending on when they deal Surtain. The hope was that the Dolphins would be able to get at least a low first-round pick for Surtain, but that might be generous at this point. THIS AND THAT

• Offensive tackle Damion McIntosh's agent, Steve Feldman, said he spoke with the Dolphins again about a restructured contract for McIntosh.

There remains a possibility that McIntosh would accept a reworked deal if the incentive package could be worked out to allow him to reasonably earn most of the $3.5 million he was scheduled to make in 2005.

McIntosh was married Saturday and would like to remain in South Florida where he grew up.

• Linebacker Junior Seau is expected to accept the Dolphins' offer to restructure his contract to one year at $1.5 million and another $500,000 in incentives.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, had hoped to generate interest from Kansas City, but the Chiefs have passed.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11004017.htm

Note: Site takes same username and password as KC star site. :thumb:

I have a feeling that we'll get two FA CBs this offseason, could be and probably wrong, just a feeling.

[SBK]

I have a feeling that we'll get two FA CBs this offseason, could be and probably wrong, just a feeling.

I've had that same feeling. Of course I thought KC was gonna make a run at the Super Bowl this year too. ROFL

[ZootedGranny]

Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.


****ing tremendous, though Chiefs fans have been through "the deal is close!" situations before, so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. As for the $12 to $14 million signing bonus, I think that's what the big corners on the market are aiming for, so it'll have to come out of Lamar's pockets regardless.

This article shows that in fact the Chiefs FO seems to have a damn clue as to what their needs are, but my hope is that Lamar opens up that checkbook and a Surtain acquisition doesn't exclude KC from picking up a couple more guys that'll command a large signing bonus.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

How is Surtain's knee, btw?

What is wrong with it? Long term condition?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

****ing tremendous, though Chiefs fans have been through "the deal is close!" situations before, so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. As for the $12 to $14 million signing bonus, I think that's what the big corners on the market are aiming for, so it'll have to come out of Lamar's pockets regardless.

This article shows that in fact the Chiefs FO seems to have a damn clue as to what their needs are, but my hope is that Lamar opens up that checkbook and a Surtain acquisition doesn't exclude KC from picking up a couple more guys that'll command a large signing bonus.

Well said, and agree. I hope this isn't the end of our acquistions if we end up making this move. It would be dreadful if so.

[Rain Man]

I'd rather get a free agent and not give up a second-round pick, but I'd rather give up a second-round pick than not do anything. And I'd rather not do anything than fall off my roof, but that's just an aside.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Getting a pro-bowl CB in exchange of a 2nd round pick and the signing bonus they want is pretty fair, IMO. Maybe a little bargain as far as the 2nd rounder is concerned.

[DaWolf]

I have a feeling that we'll get two FA CBs this offseason, could be and probably wrong, just a feeling.
Lord knows we'll need as many Db's as we can get...

[booger]

I have a feeling that we'll get two FA CBs this offseason, could be and probably wrong, just a feeling.
It could quite possibly come true depending on the compensation for a potential Surtain trade. If we give up the 2nd we would probably use the first on a DE or LB, maybe even a safety. I doubt we would wait until the fourth rd to get another CB or spend the first on one. All of that depends on what gets done in FA.

It looks good with the Covitz article that he has spoken to a lot of agents. Postons with Law and Woodson. Rolle and Surtains agents etc. Looks like he has his stuff together finally.

Maybe we could take a look at a Chad Scott for nickleback. Or Law when he gets healthy and possibly move EW to FS. Maybe Dyson could be talked into a decent contract and play CB when Warfield is out and compete for the job long term?

Who knows but it looks like we are covering all of our bases which is great news. :thumb:

[booger]

****ing tremendous, though Chiefs fans have been through "the deal is close!" situations before, so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. As for the $12 to $14 million signing bonus, I think that's what the big corners on the market are aiming for, so it'll have to come out of Lamar's pockets regardless.

This article shows that in fact the Chiefs FO seems to have a damn clue as to what their needs are, but my hope is that Lamar opens up that checkbook and a Surtain acquisition doesn't exclude KC from picking up a couple more guys that'll command a large signing bonus.
The part about Gun and the rest of the staff looking at him and calling about him is a good hint that they consider him to be the best available IMO.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

If we get Surtain and/or both Rolle I wonder how many times people on this site will spell their names incorrectly.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I've already seen a Surtan, a Sameri, a Role, a Rolley, a Surtian (pretty common mess us, I guess), a Sammarie. Heck I bet we'll see someone spell Samari Rolle like this by the time it's all said and done......

Tsunami Rolle.

[tk13]

I've already seen a Surtan, a Sameri, a Role, a Rolley, a Surtian (pretty common mess us, I guess), a Sammarie. Heck I bet we'll see someone spell Samari Rolle like this by the time it's all said and done......

Tsunami Rolle.
Dude, with Salami Roll, Patrick O'Sirtan, Jerid Alen, and Ryan Simms, our defense will RULE!

[Bones]

More Surtain info from the Miami Herald.
Looks like its 50/50.

Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005




DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK


Chiefs work to obtain Surtain

By JASON COLE

jcole@herald.com


Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

Peterson declined to discuss the matter, but he is also aware of what the Dolphins want as compensation. The Chiefs have the No. 15 overall pick in the first round but are unlikely to give up that high a pick.

More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.

Uberstine could not be reached for comment. Surtain is hoping to get a signing bonus of between $12 million and $14 million as part of a contract extension.

''There are other teams who have expressed interest, a number of teams,'' a source said. ``But it's fair to say that the Chiefs have shown the strongest interest to this point.''

The Dolphins are hoping to trade Surtain before Wednesday so they can avoid having to pay him a $300,000 roster bonus, but that might just be a matter of convenience. The roster bonus won't stop the Dolphins from making a deal after that and won't force the deal to happen faster than necessary.

More important to the Dolphins is to clear most of the $8.4 million salary cap hit Surtain is scheduled to cost them for the 2005 season. The official league year begins Wednesday and that sum would inhibit the Dolphins from doing any extensive shopping in free agency.

The Dolphins can clear between $5.8 million and $6.1 million depending on when they deal Surtain. The hope was that the Dolphins would be able to get at least a low first-round pick for Surtain, but that might be generous at this point. THIS AND THAT

• Offensive tackle Damion McIntosh's agent, Steve Feldman, said he spoke with the Dolphins again about a restructured contract for McIntosh.

There remains a possibility that McIntosh would accept a reworked deal if the incentive package could be worked out to allow him to reasonably earn most of the $3.5 million he was scheduled to make in 2005.

McIntosh was married Saturday and would like to remain in South Florida where he grew up.

• Linebacker Junior Seau is expected to accept the Dolphins' offer to restructure his contract to one year at $1.5 million and another $500,000 in incentives.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, had hoped to generate interest from Kansas City, but the Chiefs have passed.

[booger]

Anyone else notice from the Herald article we turn down Demoff about a deal for Seau?

That's one good move to stay away from him. Washed up. Looks good that our FO didn't fall for that one.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Dude, with Salami Roll, Patrick O'Sirtan, Jerid Alen, and Ryan Simms, our defense will RULE!

ROFL go chiese

[booger]

Dude, with Salami Roll, Patrick O'Sirtan, Jerid Alen, and Ryan Simms, our defense will RULE!
certainly will.

[tk13]

ROFL go chiese
I'll tell you what... you can call me a homer all you want, but this offseason, we're gonna put the D back in Kansas City!

[beer bacon]

ROFL go chiese

The Chiese are the greatest sports team in all of Kansas in my book!

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Look, I'm the third person to find the article on Patric Certain!



Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005




DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK


Chiefs work to obtain Surtain

By JASON COLE

jcole@herald.com


Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

Peterson declined to discuss the matter, but he is also aware of what the Dolphins want as compensation. The Chiefs have the No. 15 overall pick in the first round but are unlikely to give up that high a pick.

More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.

Uberstine could not be reached for comment. Surtain is hoping to get a signing bonus of between $12 million and $14 million as part of a contract extension.

''There are other teams who have expressed interest, a number of teams,'' a source said. ``But it's fair to say that the Chiefs have shown the strongest interest to this point.''

The Dolphins are hoping to trade Surtain before Wednesday so they can avoid having to pay him a $300,000 roster bonus, but that might just be a matter of convenience. The roster bonus won't stop the Dolphins from making a deal after that and won't force the deal to happen faster than necessary.

More important to the Dolphins is to clear most of the $8.4 million salary cap hit Surtain is scheduled to cost them for the 2005 season. The official league year begins Wednesday and that sum would inhibit the Dolphins from doing any extensive shopping in free agency.

The Dolphins can clear between $5.8 million and $6.1 million depending on when they deal Surtain. The hope was that the Dolphins would be able to get at least a low first-round pick for Surtain, but that might be generous at this point. THIS AND THAT

• Offensive tackle Damion McIntosh's agent, Steve Feldman, said he spoke with the Dolphins again about a restructured contract for McIntosh.

There remains a possibility that McIntosh would accept a reworked deal if the incentive package could be worked out to allow him to reasonably earn most of the $3.5 million he was scheduled to make in 2005.

McIntosh was married Saturday and would like to remain in South Florida where he grew up.

• Linebacker Junior Seau is expected to accept the Dolphins' offer to restructure his contract to one year at $1.5 million and another $500,000 in incentives.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, had hoped to generate interest from Kansas City, but the Chiefs have passed.

[Bones]

Oops....must have missed that. :)

[booger]

Look, I'm the third person to find the article on Patric Certain!



Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005




DOLPHINS NOTEBOOK


Chiefs work to obtain Surtain

By JASON COLE

jcole@herald.com


Kansas City has emerged as the leading contender to trade for Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain with a deal by Wednesday being a ''50-50'' possibility, according to two NFL sources.

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.

Peterson declined to discuss the matter, but he is also aware of what the Dolphins want as compensation. The Chiefs have the No. 15 overall pick in the first round but are unlikely to give up that high a pick.

More likely, the Chiefs might be willing to give up their second-round pick and a future mid-round pick as a package for Surtain. Kansas City is seeking to seriously upgrade its defense, particularly after AFC West foe Oakland agreed to trade for Pro Bowl receiver Randy Moss.

The Chiefs defensive coaches, such as coordinator Gunther Cunningham, have been studying and discussing Surtain for weeks, and they have been calling people in South Florida to ask about Surtain.

Uberstine could not be reached for comment. Surtain is hoping to get a signing bonus of between $12 million and $14 million as part of a contract extension.

''There are other teams who have expressed interest, a number of teams,'' a source said. ``But it's fair to say that the Chiefs have shown the strongest interest to this point.''

The Dolphins are hoping to trade Surtain before Wednesday so they can avoid having to pay him a $300,000 roster bonus, but that might just be a matter of convenience. The roster bonus won't stop the Dolphins from making a deal after that and won't force the deal to happen faster than necessary.

More important to the Dolphins is to clear most of the $8.4 million salary cap hit Surtain is scheduled to cost them for the 2005 season. The official league year begins Wednesday and that sum would inhibit the Dolphins from doing any extensive shopping in free agency.

The Dolphins can clear between $5.8 million and $6.1 million depending on when they deal Surtain. The hope was that the Dolphins would be able to get at least a low first-round pick for Surtain, but that might be generous at this point. THIS AND THAT

• Offensive tackle Damion McIntosh's agent, Steve Feldman, said he spoke with the Dolphins again about a restructured contract for McIntosh.

There remains a possibility that McIntosh would accept a reworked deal if the incentive package could be worked out to allow him to reasonably earn most of the $3.5 million he was scheduled to make in 2005.

McIntosh was married Saturday and would like to remain in South Florida where he grew up.

• Linebacker Junior Seau is expected to accept the Dolphins' offer to restructure his contract to one year at $1.5 million and another $500,000 in incentives.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, had hoped to generate interest from Kansas City, but the Chiefs have passed.
Did you get that off the star board?

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I'll tell you what... you can call me a homer all you want, but this offseason, we're gonna put the D back in Kansas City!

I agree, 100#.

I think we have what it takes to get back to the superbowl.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Oops....must have missed that. :)

Its ok. we all have are perceptions wance in a whial.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Did you get that off the star board?

ROFL

No, but this I did...

"the 4 time pro-bowler and the person who rushed for over 2,000 yards in his carrer so far troy hambrick is going to be a free agent. he is only going to be 27 years old. i think the chiefs should trade priest holmes for either DJ or for charles woodson. they should sign hambrick immedietly."

[Muck]

I think Surtain would be a tremendously good fit for the Chiefs. You guys obviously need CBs. But Surtain is one of the best. Truly a shutdown corner. IMO Ty Law is the best corner in the league. He's a stout, physical guy who can cover anyone and hits/tackles extremely well.

However I would love to see Pat playing in anything other than Miami's defense, which was the most predictable and vanilla in the league. Surtain lined up in press coverage 90% of the time. I would love to see the numbers he'd put up in Bill Belichick's defense.

This year he did have some injuries. And he's had a few in the past. But nothing major. The knees are a concern. But it is football. And Miami's CBs probably have the most physical job of any set of CBs in the league. They really do get beat up from all the contact they take at the LOS.

I don't know what it is, but I've always felt he'd be a great fit in KC.

Ironically, in our 2003 FinHeaven Fantasy League, I drew the Chiefs. And one of my first moves was trading for Surtain. Just thought I'd share. :)

[booger]

ROFL

No, but this I did...

"the 4 time pro-bowler and the person who rushed for over 2,000 yards in his carrer so far troy hambrick is going to be a free agent. he is only going to be 27 years old. i think the chiefs should trade priest holmes for either DJ or for charles woodson. they should sign hambrick immedietly."
ROFL

what a bunch of numbnuts over there.

[booger]

I think Surtain would be a tremendously good fit for the Chiefs. You guys obviously need CBs. But Surtain is one of the best. Truly a shutdown corner. IMO Ty Law is the best corner in the league. He's a stout, physical guy who can cover anyone and hits/tackles extremely well.

However I would love to see Pat playing in anything other than Miami's defense, which was the most predictable and vanilla in the league. Surtain lined up in press coverage 90% of the time. I would love to see the numbers he'd put up in Bill Belichick's defense.

This year he did have some injuries. And he's had a few in the past. But nothing major. The knees are a concern. But it is football. And Miami's CBs probably have the most physical job of any set of CBs in the league. They really do get beat up from all the contact they take at the LOS.

I don't know what it is, but I've always felt he'd be a great fit in KC.

Ironically, in our 2003 FinHeaven Fantasy League, I drew the Chiefs. And one of my first moves was trading for Surtain. Just thought I'd share. :)

:thumb:

Can you elaborate on the knee any? There have been rumors of a possible degenerative knee.

Either way it looks like he doesn't miss many games.

[tomahawk kid]

I have a feeling that we'll get two FA CBs this offseason, could be and probably wrong, just a feeling.

I hope you're right.

Everything I've read this morning would certainly indicate that to me.

I could live with Surtain / Law (provided Law can walk and run), but I'd be a lot more happy with Surtain and Smoot.

Can you even imagine a great corner combincation like that in KC again?

(See Burruss / Ross, Hasty / Carter and Thomas / Marsalis.)

[tomahawk kid]

I'll tell you what... you can call me a homer all you want, but this offseason, we're gonna put the D back in Kansas City!

Don't freaking tease me.

[old_geezer]

Hummmm.....do I want to wait and see what "project" the Chiefs draft in the 2nd round this year or do I want to use it on an All-Pro CB ? Decisions, decisions..........think I'll take the All-Pro CB Alex.

[the Talking Can]

I really hate to give up a pick....hmm....

[tomahawk kid]

I really hate to give up a pick....hmm....

Given Carl's history with the draft, this part doesn't really bother me.

I think, as a rule, fans overvalue draft picks. If we can give up a second rounder for a Pro Bowl Corner, we need to pull the trigger.

[the Talking Can]

I really hate to give up a pick....hmm....

after reading the thread and the new articles, why not?....better than Bartee and Mitchell....now go get Hartwell, and draft CB in round one...

[siberian khatru]

after reading the thread and the new articles, why not?....better than Bartee and Mitchell....now go get Hartwell, and draft CB in round one...

I really could see:

Trade for CB (Surtain, obviously)
Sign FA CB
Sign FA LB
Draft DE R1

The three FA/trades would be vets who contribute immediately to the most glaring weaknesses on the team. The DE would play behind Hicks (I know, I know), meaning they don't expect him right off the bat to be a savior -- although I would expect a Pollack/Roth/Cody etc. to push for more and more PT as the season progresses.

[the Talking Can]

I really could see:

Trade for CB (Surtain, obviously)
Sign FA CB
Sign FA LB
Draft DE R1

The three FA/trades would be vets who contribute immediately to the most glaring weaknesses on the team. The DE would play behind Hicks (I know, I know), meaning they don't expect him right off the bat to be a savior -- although I would expect a Pollack/Roth/Cody etc. to push for more and more PT as the season progresses.

I'm down with that, I think the right DE pick could play for us this year....also, I think if we acquire a second FA CB it will be a second tier type, I don't know if can swing it on top of a top FA LB....

[Chief Roundup]

Oh no come on you all are making me think you all are NUTS!
12 -14 mil in signing bonus, 2cd round pick, and degenerative knees. Oh and it has to be paid out in 5 years because the contract has expired with the CBA. NO F'N Thanks.
There are other corners that don't carry that much BS with them.

[siberian khatru]

I'm down with that, I think the right DE pick could play for us this year....also, I think if we acquire a second FA CB it will be a second tier type, I don't know if can swing it on top of a top FA LB....

Agreed. We definitely need a stud/near-stud LB to go with a No. 1 CB.

Now, what constitutes a second-tier CB? Dyson? Or Chad Scott?

[ChiefsFanatik88]

What? Nobody mentioned LJ being traded for Surtain? And we still keep our second round pick to draft or trade for another player?

Hell Yes I would do it.

[the Talking Can]

Now, what constitutes a second-tier CB? Dyson? Or Chad Scott?

Good question, but the answer isn't Scott. He's terrible.

[the Talking Can]

Oh no come on you all are making me think you all are NUTS!
12 -14 mil in signing bonus, 2cd round pick, and degenerative knees. Oh and it has to be paid out in 5 years because the contract has expired with the CBA. NO F'N Thanks.
There are other corners that don't carry that much BS with them.

everyone has some baggage..if the Chiefs check out his knees than go for it, same for Law, Roaf etc...keep in mind our "window," I'm personally not concerned with what happens 3 years from now...

[keg in kc]

What? Nobody mentioned LJ being traded for Surtain? And we still keep our second round pick to draft or trade for another player?Too risky a move right now. Priest's been injured two of the last three years and Blaylock is testing free agency. That could well leave us with Priest and ... ... ... ... on the depth chart. Got to know where Blaylock's going before you can afford to trade away Johnson.

[DaKCMan AP]

Surtain has been the best CB on the Dolphins for the last 3-5 years. Sam Madison would always receive a bunch of hype but, if you watched the games, Surtain was clearly the much better player. He has good, not great, size (5'11" 192lbs) and I've rarely seen him get beat. Over the last 5 years he's averaged 5 int's and has missed only 4 games during his 7 years in the league.

A 2nd round pick for a premier impact player is not too high a price.

[mikey23545]

The only thing that worries me about Surtain is the rumbling about his knee problem being of the degenerative type that is constantly worsening. I would still jump at this deal if the docs would vouch for him having at least a few years left.

[Chief Roundup]

everyone has some baggage..if the Chiefs check out his knees than go for it, same for Law, Roaf etc...keep in mind our "window," I'm personally not concerned with what happens 3 years from now...
I just don't see where Surtain with DEGENERATIVE KNEE is worth us giving up our 2cd round pick, 12-14 mil signing bonus and salary. When we can have Lucas, Smoot, Rolle or Baxter for the same or close to the same money. Not to mention still having our 2cd round pick. Remember we owe Philly our 3rd. If we get any comp for Tait it will be at the very end of the third.
If we make this trade we only have our 1st rd pick on Day 1 of the draft to try and help the Defense.

That to me just is too much cost.

[mikey23545]

I just don't see where Surtain with DEGENERATIVE KNEE is worth us giving up our 2cd round pick, 12-14 mil signing bonus and salary. When we can have Lucas, Smoot, Rolle or Baxter for the same or close to the same money. Not to mention still having our 2cd round pick. Remember we owe Philly our 3rd. If we get any comp for Tait it will be at the very end of the third.
If we make this trade we only have our 1st rd pick on Day 1 of the draft to try and help the Defense.

That to me just is too much cost.

Again, we need to have his knee checked out very well. But if he checks out, and the Dolphins want this deal, I have no problem with it at all.

[DaWolf]

The only thing that worries me about Surtain is the rumbling about his knee problem being of the degenerative type that is constantly worsening. I would still jump at this deal if the docs would vouch for him having at least a few years left.
As far as I know that's just a rumor that's never really been verified. Carl is so stingy when it comes to making deals that I'd be shocked if we traded for a guy with a degenerative knee. That's one of the main reasons we never really made a very big offer to Hugh Douglas, IIRC...

[Rausch]

everyone has some baggage..if the Chiefs check out his knees than go for it, same for Law, Roaf etc...keep in mind our "window," I'm personally not concerned with what happens 3 years from now...

Also keep in mind that as of right now Warfield is looking at a likely suspension of 4 games. So for the first 1/4th of the season, even if we DO land a good FA corner, either Bartee or McClown will be starting.

[Eleazar]

Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson spent much of Friday night negotiating with agent Gary Uberstine, who represents Surtain, on a contract extension for Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract.


If we can get Surtain with an extension for a second rounder I'd do it right now.

He's 28, would be on a new contract, and a hell of a lot better than what we usually get in the 2nd. Do it Carl :cuss:

Trade for him, draft Rogers in the first, and look for a LB and DE in free agency :thumb:

[jspchief]

Give up our second round pick???? No F*cking Way!!!

If we gave up every second round pick we ever had, we would barely have the quality starters we already have. We'd be missing guys like Kevin Lockett, Mike Cloud, William Bartee, Eddie Freeman, Kawika Mitchell, and JR Siavii. Not to mention our secret weapon and the key to our offense, Kris Wilson.

That great team of the 90s? Would it have been so great without Matt Blundin, Joe Valerio, and Donnell Bennet? Would Derrick Thomas have been able to have the rookie year he had, without Mike Elkins on the team?

Use your head guys! Championship teams are built on quality second round picks, especially when you can cherry-pick superstars like Carl Peterson can.

[Eleazar]

If we gave up every second round pick we ever had, we would barely have the quality starters we already have. We'd be missing guys like Kevin Lockett, Mike Cloud, William Bartee, Eddie Freeman, Kawika Mitchell, and JR Siavii. Not to mention our secret weapon and the key to our offense, Kris Wilson.

Actually I think Junior was the pick we got when we traded out of the first, and that Kris Wilson was our real second round pick.

Besides, go easy on Wilson until we can at least see what he can do.

[Bowser]

Give up our second round pick???? No F*cking Way!!!

If we gave up every second round pick we ever had, we would barely have the quality starters we already have. We'd be missing guys like Kevin Lockett, Mike Cloud, William Bartee, Eddie Freeman, Kawika Mitchell, and JR Siavii. Not to mention our secret weapon and the key to our offense, Kris Wilson.

That great team of the 90s? Would it have been so great without Matt Blundin, Joe Valerio, and Donnell Bennet? Would Derrick Thomas have been able to have the rookie year he had, without Mike Elkins on the team?

Use your head guys! Championship teams are built on quality second round picks, especially when you can cherry-pick superstars like Carl Peterson can.

Wow. Talk about having your eyes opened.......

Earthwind Moreland is a free agent, isn't he?

[jspchief]

Besides, go easy on Wilson until we can at least see what he can do.

Why? Has there been rumblings that he has the makings of a good CB? I heard he played safety in Pop Warner...

[htismaqe]

Surtain for our 2nd.

Get it done Carl.

[siberian khatru]

The only thing that worries me about Surtain is the rumbling about his knee problem being of the degenerative type that is constantly worsening. I would still jump at this deal if the docs would vouch for him having at least a few years left.

If he can play at a high level this year only, I'd still do the deal. We're gonna start losing key offensive players after 2005 anyway, so I really don't care if a vet CB is going to be playing in 2006 or 07. Seriously, our window is open for this year, maybe 06 too AT BEST.

We have to WIN NOW. 06 and beyond is going to be painful no matter what we do this year. So I say go for broke in 05. If that means trading a 2nd-round pick for a guy who can only give us one good year at CB, then so be it.

[siberian khatru]

Good question, but the answer isn't Scott. He's terrible.

Agree again. I don't like Scott either. I was hoping Dyson would be more of a second-tier CB (i.e., somebody good we could afford), not someone who would command Law/Smoot or even Lucas money.

[Chiefnj]

If the Chiefs make this deal it leaves them with only 1 pick on day one of the draft - so which WR will they take?

[Mosbonian]

If he can play at a high level this year only, I'd still do the deal. We're gonna start losing key offensive players after 2005 anyway, so I really don't care if a vet CB is going to be playing in 2006 or 07. Seriously, our window is open for this year, maybe 06 too AT BEST.

We have to WIN NOW. 06 and beyond is going to be painful no matter what we do this year. So I say go for broke in 05. If that means trading a 2nd-round pick for a guy who can only give us one good year at CB, then so be it.

I'll second that motion.....

All in favor say "aye"

mmaddog
*******

[Mosbonian]

If the Chiefs make this deal it leaves them with only 1 pick on day one of the draft - so which WR will they take?

It's not like we have shown a propensity to do anything good the first day of the draft anyway...

mmaddog
*******

[Bowser]

I'll second that motion.....

All in favor say "aye"

mmaddog
*******

Where is Talisman when you need him?


Oh, and AYE, by the way.

[keg in kc]

The giddy child in me thinks that this week will be christmas, and we'll get everything we want. The crusty old man in me knows we're getting carlton gray in lew bush.

[Rausch]

The giddy child in me thinks that this week will be christmas, and we'll get everything we want. The crusty old man in me knows we're getting carlton gray in lew bush.

Listen to your frosted side...

[Bowser]

The giddy child in me thinks that this week will be christmas, and we'll get everything we want. The crusty old man in me knows we're getting carlton gray in lew bush.

Tell that old fart to shut his food hole, pronto!

[Wallcrawler]

Damn right. Surtain is Pro Bowl caliber, shutdown style cornerback who can immediately contribute to the defense. He would immediately take the sting out of the Randy Moss to the Raiders trade.


Screw the 2nd round pick. Take the guy who is proven over another crap shoot in which the team has lost year after year after year.

[Kclee]

If the Chiefs make this deal it leaves them with only 1 pick on day one of the draft - so which WR will they take?


If the Chiefs make that deal, I bet they trade down our round 1(#15) and pick up (depending how far) a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[BigChiefFan]

I just don't like giving up the 2nd rounder when there are so many quality corners on the open market that don't cost us a pick, but if they throw in the Z man, it might be hard to pass on, maybe they throw us their 3rd rounder, too.

[Rausch]

If the Chiefs make that deal, I bet they trade down our round 1(#15) and pick up (depending how far) a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

I could see that. And we should get something out of losing Tait. I wouldn't expect more than a 4th or 5th, but it's something anyway...

[BigChiefFan]

I could see that. And we should get something out of losing Tait. I wouldn't expect more than a 4th or 5th, but it's something anyway...
We also have some later round , multiple picks that we can use to trade up. If we lose our 2nd rounder for Surtain, depending on who's there at 15, we will have to consider trading down, though. I still think we may be able to take a stud player at 15, but with FA, it's too hard to tell what will transpire.

[Frankie]

I HATE THIS. PUHLEEZE!!!..... CARL, DON'T PISS AWAY HIGH DRAFT CHOICES. GO AFTER ONE OF THE FREE AGENTS.

[BigChiefFan]

I hate giving up the draft pick, but Surtain is a stud. He's Pro Bowler CB and can play the bump n run. He's physical and will be a good fit, we could do alot worse.

[Frankie]

...., we could do alot worse.
Like pissing away a 2nd and still end up giving him a big contract. Rolle or Lucas et al are the smarter directions to go IMO.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

<A name=216552>Cardinals | Willing to Trade Starks - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:56:35 -0800Kent Somers, of the Arizona Republic, reports the Arizona Cardinals (http://www.kffl.com/team/6/nfl) are willing to deal CB Duane Starks (http://www.kffl.com/player/7/nfl) for the right price this offseason, according to comments made by head coach Dennis Green (http://www.kffl.com/player/9132/nfl). "I wouldn't tell (the media) if we were. But as we've said, (tackle) L.J. (Shelton) is not the only guy that we would consider trading," Green said. By trading Starks, the Cardinals (http://www.kffl.com/team/6/nfl) would incur a salary-cap charge of $2 million this year to account for the remaining portion of Starks' $5 million signing bonus over the final two years of his deal.

[Kclee]

Also, I saw where the Bears might cut McQuarters. Not a bad pick up ONCE we get a number 1 corner and a stud LB.

[The Bad Guy]

I really hate to give up a pick....hmm....

The Chiefs have drafted Kawika Mitchell, William Bartee, Mike Cloud, Rashan Shehee, and Eddie Freeman recently in the 2nd round.

Surtain is a stud corners, they don't grow on trees and to avoid a bidding war, you give up the 2nd rounder.

I don't know why you'd hate to give it up - I'd welcome it. It almost removes the possibility of failure.

[The Bad Guy]

Like pissing away a 2nd and still end up giving him a big contract. Rolle or Lucas et al are the smarter directions to go IMO.

Yeah, it would break my heart to "piss away" a 2nd on one of the best young corners in the NFL.

Rolle sucks, it's not 1999 anymore. Rolle is hurt a lot and isn't very good. Look at the Titans pass defense over the last few years.

Surtain is the safest way to go. It's amazing, everyone here wants a stud corner, now we have a chance we are "pissing picks" away.

[Wallcrawler]

I HATE THIS. PUHLEEZE!!!..... CARL, DON'T PISS AWAY HIGH DRAFT CHOICES. GO AFTER ONE OF THE FREE AGENTS.



Ah. You must be one of the fans of William Bartee, and Julian Battle, among others. These guys couldnt cover their ass with both hands dude. 2nd round picks.

Just a couple of high draft picks that Carl saved, and used in the draft, instead of "Pissing it away" to aquire a pro bowl caliber player who knows what the hell he's doing.


Look back over the last few seasons and see who Carl has taken in the second round.

If he acquires Patrick Surtain with this year's second rounder, it will be the best use of a second round pick in a damn long time.

Unless you consider drafting worthless players with your second rounder to be a productive venture.

[The Bad Guy]

I HATE THIS. PUHLEEZE!!!..... CARL, DON'T PISS AWAY HIGH DRAFT CHOICES. GO AFTER ONE OF THE FREE AGENTS.

Yeah, because we have done so well with those high draft picks in the past.

I never understood why people hate giving up draft picks. You draft with the hope that a player will turn into a stud. We would be giving up a 2nd for someone who is already a stud.

It baffles me.

[Chief Roundup]

Yeah, because we have done so well with those high draft picks in the past.

I never understood why people hate giving up draft picks. You draft with the hope that a player will turn into a stud. We would be giving up a 2nd for someone who is already a stud.

It baffles me.
When there are other corners available that we don't have to give up a pick for it baffles me why some people want to give them up.

[Wallcrawler]

Yeah, because we have done so well with those high draft picks in the past.

I never understood why people hate giving up draft picks. You draft with the hope that a player will turn into a stud. We would be giving up a 2nd for someone who is already a stud.

It baffles me.


Me too.

The draft is always a crap shoot. When you trade picks for players, youre trading for someone who has already proven he can play, and play well at the NFL level.

Its insane to not want to give up a second rounder for Surtain. Thats robbing the Miami Dolphins in my book.

[Coach]

I like the deal. In my opinion, Surtain would be a better pick-up than Ty Law because he is younger (29) than Law (31), he will probably be a little bit cheaper, and there are no injury questions to worry about with Surtain. Giving up a second round pick for a player of this caliber is worth it and it also gives us an opportunity to spend our first round pick on another position. With the changes in the rules last season, I just can't see us spending a 1st round pick on a rookie CB, when we have so many other problems on defense. I just hope we are still able to pick up some quality linebackers and/or a pass rusher.

[brent102fire]

If I were CP, I would pull the trigger on that one. A proven, shutdown CB for the 46th pick. GET IT DONE CARL!!!!!

[Frankie]

Yeah, because we have done so well with those high draft picks in the past.

I never understood why people hate giving up draft picks. You draft with the hope that a player will turn into a stud. We would be giving up a 2nd for someone who is already a stud.

It baffles me.

I would normally agree with this point. Except there are FA options this year that would let us keep the 2nd rounder. There's no scientific proof that our 2nd rdc is always gonna be a bad pick. Not any more than any other pick.

[The Bad Guy]

When there are other corners available that we don't have to give up a pick for it baffles me why some people want to give them up.

For what? So we can have another Bartee, Mitchell, Cloud or Shehee? No thanks.

You are putting your faith in a scouting department that has failed this organization year after year.

I could care less about draft picks if they are being traded for proven stud players. It eliminates the potential for faliure.

Trading for Surtain also eliminates the potential for a bidding war. The Chiefs might be able to get him for 11 instead of 13 million in a signing bonus.

[Sure-Oz]

I'd do it, not like we drafted worth shit anyway lately in these rounds. We need help, he would def. provide it. I'd love to get Law as well if we can.

[Wallcrawler]

I would normally agree with this point. Except there are FA options this year that would let us keep the 2nd rounder. There's no scientific proof that our 2nd rdc is always gonna be a bad pick. Not any more than any other pick.


What was that quote from George Santiyana?

"If you dont know history, youre bound to repeat it?"

Obviously the idea of history being cyclical is proven where Carl Peterson and the Chiefs front office is concerned.

Year after year after year, our draft is atrocious.

Im all for trading the crap shoot for some guaranteed talent this year, instead of relying on the talent scouts from KC.

[The Bad Guy]

I would normally agree with this point. Except there are FA options this year that would let us keep the 2nd rounder. There's no scientific proof that our 2nd rdc is always gonna be a bad pick. Not any more than any other pick.

If you want proof, look at the draft classes from the last 18 or so years.


22004436Junior SiaviiDTOregon 20042961Kris WilsonTEPittsburgh 20031547Kawika MitchellLBSouth Florida 20021143Eddie FreemanDTAlabama-Birmingham 20002354William BarteeDBOklahoma 19992354Mike CloudRBBoston College 19971747Kevin LockettWRKansas State 19962858Reggie TongueDBOregon State 19942958Donnell BennettRBMiami (FL) 19921240Matt BlundinQBVirginia 19912350Joe ValerioTPennsylvania 19901540Tim GrunhardCNotre Dame 1989432Mike ElkinsQBWake Forest 1987735Christian OkoyeRBAzusa Pacific 1986835Dino HackettLBAppalachian State

There's your proof. The is about 3 at most good 2nd round picks in 20 years.

[Wallcrawler]

If you want proof, look at the draft classes from the last 18 or so years.


22004436Junior SiaviiDTOregon 20042961Kris WilsonTEPittsburgh 20031547Kawika MitchellLBSouth Florida 20021143Eddie FreemanDTAlabama-Birmingham 20002354William BarteeDBOklahoma 19992354Mike CloudRBBoston College 19971747Kevin LockettWRKansas State 19962858Reggie TongueDBOregon State 19942958Donnell BennettRBMiami (FL) 19921240Matt BlundinQBVirginia 19912350Joe ValerioTPennsylvania 19901540Tim GrunhardCNotre Dame 1989432Mike ElkinsQBWake Forest 1987735Christian OkoyeRBAzusa Pacific 1986835Dino HackettLBAppalachian State

There's your proof. The is about 3 at most good 2nd round picks in 20 years.


Tim Grunhard, and Reggie Tongue are the only two that I see that ever contributed anything to any Chiefs success.

2 players in 20 years.

Trade the pick for Surtain, Carl. Dont F around and get creative.

[The Bad Guy]

Tim Grunhard, and Reggie Tongue are the only two that I see that ever contributed anything to any Chiefs success.

2 players in 20 years.

Trade the pick for Surtain, Carl. Dont F around and get creative.

Christian Okoye is the 3rd.

[redshirt32]

2nd round to much to give up, not in favor of this deal, but the brain team knows best right. We have alot of holes in the D.

[The Bad Guy]

2nd round to much to give up, not in favor of this deal, but the brain team knows best right. We have alot of holes in the D.

Do you people think that pro bowl relatively young corners grow on trees?

How much better do you expect the 2nd round pick this year to be rather than Patrick Surtain if you think it's too much?

[Sure-Oz]

We need to win next year damnit, trade the f'in pick

[el borracho]

My concern with giving up the pick is that means one less option for filling holes on this defense.

* If we retain our 2nd round pick it is still likely that we sign a free-agent CB. We would then draft a CB in either the 1st or 2nd round and have another day one pick to fill another defensive need. That equals three players.

* If we trade the 2nd round pick for a CB we won't liely sign another free-agent CB. We will then have one day one draft pick which means we will have filled only two defensive holes. There are a lot of day one CBs in this draft but I doubt the Chiefs could afford to take one in this scenario which means we are not playing to the strength of this year's draft (more legit CB prospects than legit LB or DE prospects). There are also a lot of quality free-agent CBs which means if we use a draft pick to get one we are not playing to the strength of this year's free-agent crop.

To me, a second round pick for Surtain is a good deal but not the smartest deal for the Chiefs this year because a) we have too many needs b) it wouldn't play to the strength of this year's free-agents and c) it wouldn't play to the strength of this year's draft class.

[Chief Roundup]

Boy what a horrible attitude.
Ah to heck with it well just screw it up anyway...
With attitude like that you surely would.
It seems like that is your only argument to getting Surtain.

[Chief Roundup]

We need to win next year damnit, trade the f'in pick

We can put an equally talented CB on our team without losing that pick and get more depth and help with the pick.

[invincible_chief]

Anyone have an idea as to how much Surtain would cost? Also, I heard Surtain had knee problems? Is this something of the past or something he just had operated on? :shrug:

[The Bad Guy]

We can put an equally talented CB on our team without losing that pick and get more depth and help with the pick.

Besides Ty Law, name one CB who's as good as Surtain?

And while you're at it, name the last 2nd round pick that made a solid contribution in his first year for the Chiefs.

[Chief Roundup]

Besides Ty Law, name one CB who's as good as Surtain?
That is arguable like most things. I think Smoot, Rolle are close especially on the Miami D.
Nice to know you don't possess the never say die attitude.

[The Bad Guy]

That is arguable like most things. I think Smoot, Rolle are close especially on the Miami D.
Nice to know you don't possess the never say die attitude.

Rolle as good as Surtain? Is this 2001? Rolle has lost a steam has missed 8 games the last 2 years as well.

Surtain was one of the reasons that Miami's D was soo good. When Madison was dominant, teams threw all day at Surtain and he responded.

Nice to know you have faith in the Chiefs to draft someone of significance in the 2nd round when they have only done so 3 times in the last 20 years.

[redshirt32]

I still say we can get 3 FA's and have a good draft but this will not get us over the hump. This one year run to the SB aint happening, we are talking Carl and company, playoffs yes SB forget it. We should all be used to it by now what makes this freaking year any different, get five fricking free agents we aint going to the SB. To many holes to fill in one swooping year. We might make a run but will fall short. This coming from a long time homer.

[DenverChief]

I still say we can get 3 FA's and have a good draft but this will not get us over the hump. This one year run to the SB aint happening, we are talking Carl and company, playoffs yes SB forget it. We should all be used to it by now what makes this freaking year any different, get five fricking free agents we aint going to the SB. To many holes to fill in one swooping year. We might make a run but will fall short. This coming from a long time homer.


:bong: dude we will if we make the right FA addtions (2 on defense and one WR IMO) I think we can win it all

[Eleazar]

If we add a true #1 corner, we still need 2 linebackers IMO. Fujita is fine but fuggin' Beisel isn't going to cut it on the outside.

It isn't like we have to scrap everyone on the defense, but we need a #1 corner, MLB and OLB, and a DE.

[redshirt32]

LOL D Chief funny

Our window is running out !, how bought the last three years of KC D, little to late these guys should of had a plan 3 years ago. Yet lets keep playing the same freaking players because they will come around, or because they are the well liked vet, lets change the DC. Maybe three years from now we have a top 5 D and shity O. Don't get me wrong guys Im a diehard Chiefs fan but have put the pipe away long time ago. Ill spend my $500 and see a few games this year and scream just as loud as anyone, just a little fed up with the front office.

[OrlandoChief]

Surtain is the best cb available at this point. Ty Law is 2nd because of his age and he is not as hungry at this point. Rolle is serviceable and Smoot is over-rated.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I don't care about a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick for a shutdown CB is pennies.

[Mr. Laz]

I don't care about a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick for a shutdown CB is pennies.

but it's still an extra cost, big contract AND a draft pick



i hope he's really worth the difference ... cause we always seem to insist on paying extra for whatever we do.

[philfree]

I don't care about a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick for a shutdown CB is pennies.

Here's the way to look at it. If we are gonna pick up a CB in FA and one in the draft then wouldn't Surtain be considered the CB from the usage of our 2nd round pick. He would be considered the draft pick so we still would be looking for our FA CB. And instead of trying to compete with other teams in signing one of the top FAs we'll have Surtain as our #1CB so we can persue a less expensive option for a #2 or a $.05. Then we can draft A player like Thomas Davis or Shawn Merriman with our 1st pick. Or A D Johnson if he's till on the board. IMO this is probably the best plan if we can pull it off.


PhilFree :arrow:

[Chiefs Pantalones]

but it's still an extra cost, big contract AND a draft pick



i hope he's really worth the difference ... cause we always seem to insist on paying extra for whatever we do.

I don't care.

I know it's a cliche, but it is true...we would f#ck the pick up anyway, so why not trade it? And the money is fine. You don't get shutdown CBs for free unless you draft well technically. And we don't draft well, and this year wouldn't be any different.

We're being aggressive and taking a risk in going after him, I hope everyone is happy if we get him.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Here's the way to look at it. If we are gonna pick up a CB in FA and one in the draft then wouldn't Surtain be considered the CB from the usage of our 2nd round pick. He would be considered the draft pick so we still would be looking for our FA CB. And instead of trying to compete with other teams in signing one of the top FAs we'll have Surtain as our #1CB so we can persue a less expensive option for a #2 or a $.05. Then we can draft A player like Thomas Davis or Shawn Merriman with our 1st pick. Or A D Johnson if he's till on the board. IMO this is probably the best plan if we can pull it off.


PhilFree :arrow:

The Chiefs have a plan and I hope it's a good one.

I hope in that plan it says, "Sign two CBs, either by trade or FA."

[el borracho]

My concern with giving up the pick is that means one less option for filling holes on this defense.

* If we retain our 2nd round pick it is still likely that we sign a free-agent CB. We would then draft a CB in either the 1st or 2nd round and have another day one pick to fill another defensive need. That equals three players.

* If we trade the 2nd round pick for a CB we won't liely sign another free-agent CB. We will then have one day one draft pick which means we will have filled only two defensive holes. There are a lot of day one CBs in this draft but I doubt the Chiefs could afford to take one in this scenario which means we are not playing to the strength of this year's draft (more legit CB prospects than legit LB or DE prospects). There are also a lot of quality free-agent CBs which means if we use a draft pick to get one we are not playing to the strength of this year's free-agent crop.

To me, a second round pick for Surtain is a good deal but not the smartest deal for the Chiefs this year because a) we have too many needs b) it wouldn't play to the strength of this year's free-agents and c) it wouldn't play to the strength of this year's draft class.
Nobody is at all concerned about not playing to the strengths of this year's free-agency and draft (both CB rich)? Nobody is at all concerned about having 2 players when we could have 3?

[Frankie]

I don't care about a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick for a shutdown CB is pennies.

With the current NFL rules, there may be no such thing as a shut down CB. I'd say get a coupla good CBs off the FA market (for now) and spend the 2nd on Carlos Rogers or Eric Green (for the future).

[DaKCMan AP]

With the current NFL rules, there may be no such thing as a shut down CB. I'd say get a coupla good CBs off the FA market (for now) and spend the 2nd on Carlos Rogers or Eric Green (for the future).

You're dreaming if you think Carlos Rogers is going to be available with our 2nd round pick.

[Wallcrawler]

Nobody is at all concerned about not playing to the strengths of this year's free-agency and draft (both CB rich)? Nobody is at all concerned about having 2 players when we could have 3?


Do you HONESTLY think that whoever we draft in the second round, if we do not make the trade will make a significant first year impact as a rookie?

Do you think that this rookie would play as well as Surtain, an already proven NFL stud on defense?

If you actually think that, you need to slowly lay the crack pipe down at your feet, and slowly back away.


Its been chronicled, 3 decent players in the last TWENTY F'ING YEARS have been drafted by the Chiefs in the second round.

The Chiefs need help NOW. RIGHT NOW. Not two or three seasons down the road when all the offensive studs have retired.

Trading the second round pick which has been nearly worthless to the chiefs over the past twenty years due to lackluster scouting, to acquire a cornerback the likes of Patrick Surtain is a very smart move.

Who the hell do you really think we would get in the second round that would be the great savior of this defense?

Another guy like Kawika mitchell? Oh he sure helped out didnt he? Or any other of the long list of shit players we have that were second rounders.

Use your head people.

Yeah, we could get 3 players. But if the third guy cant do shit, what good is he? We can sign any jackass off the FA list for depth.

We're looking for proven players that know what they are doing and are capable of doing their job, and have history doing just that.

Surtain is proven. We know that he would instantly be able to line up on the opposing team's best wide receiver all game.

Who in the second round would you possibly get that you could say the same for, that would have that big of an impact on the game?

You dont even know if the guy we possibly draft in the second round is even going to get any substantial playing time, let alone start on the defense.


With Surtain, the starting lineup on defense is instantly improved. No question, no wondering, no crap shoot.

[Eleazar]

You're dreaming if you think Carlos Rogers is going to be available with our 2nd round pick.

He may not be around for our 1st round pick. :deevee:

[Chiefnj]

With Surtain, the starting lineup on defense is instantly improved. No question, no wondering, no crap shoot.

That's what the Ravens thought when they picked up Grbac, what the Jaguars thought when they picked up Douglas, what the Raiders thought when they signed Sapp, etc.

It's still a bit of a gamble.

Surtain would certainly be an upgrade on paper, but it isn't like the Chiefs are 1 corner shy of making a Super Bowl run. In a year with a bunch of free agent corners, giving up a mid 2nd round pick for one seems like overpaying.

[tk13]

The 2nd round pick isn't a big deal as long as we land another corner in FA. I think many (me included) were under the assumption that we were going to get one big FA CB then draft another in the early rounds.... as long as we get another CB somewhere else it's not a bad deal. The only way this would be a bad deal is if we do not add another corner to be our 2nd/nickel CB and this is basically our only secondary move....

[el borracho]

Stinger, I don't think the 2nd round rookie needs to play as well as Surtain. I would advocate signing a free-agent CB such as Smoot to instantly upgrade our D. Perhaps Surtain is better than Smoot, perhaps not. In any case Smoot is a huge (and instant) upgrade to the D and leaves us with our 2nd round pick and at least the possibility of drafting more help. 3 of 20 is not good odds but still better than 0 chance at upgrade.

Additionaly, I disagree with the idea that the Chiefs should sacrifice the future for an improved team now. Good franchises build their teams through the draft and coaching and from selective use of free-agency. If one could buy an NFL title then the Redskins would have several in the last few years.

[el borracho]

The 2nd round pick isn't a big deal as long as we land another corner in FA. I think many (me included) were under the assumption that we were going to get one big FA CB then draft another in the early rounds.... as long as we get another CB somewhere else it's not a bad deal. The only way this would be a bad deal is if we do not add another corner to be our 2nd/nickel CB and this is basically our only secondary move....
I don't see how we can afford two, new high-priced corners when we are already paying Warfield over 4 million. Who else would we sign if we trade for Surtain? Would you really have Warfield as a 4 million dollar nickel back?

[tomahawk kid]

I don't see how we can afford two, new high-priced corners when we are already paying Warfield over 4 million. Who else would we sign if we trade for Surtain? Would you really have Warfield as a 4 million dollar nickel back?

Perhaps they could ask "EWI" to take a pay cut due to his multiple drinking and driving offenses.....

[BIG_DADDY]

God knows we sure could use him. Hope this goes down.

[tk13]

I don't see how we can afford two, new high-priced corners when we are already paying Warfield over 4 million. Who else would we sign if we trade for Surtain? Would you really have Warfield as a 4 million dollar nickel back?
I'd agree that it doesn't look financially possible, but who knows.... plus I'm sure there'll be corners out there that aren't as high profile that are decent and will come at a cheaper price. Last year the Jets signed David Barrett late in FA and he ended up being a decent starter on a pretty good defense.

[TRR]

IMO, we cannot rely on the draft to produce anything with respect to the 2005-2006 season. If you look at the past, what rookie on either side of the ball has made an impact for us?

We hit FA hard, and fill almost all our needs through it. What we draft is just icing on the cake for 05-06.

[tk13]

IMO, we cannot rely on the draft to produce anything with respect to the 2005-2006 season. If you look at the past, what rookie on either side of the ball has made an impact for us?

We hit FA hard, and fill almost all our needs through it. What we draft is just icing on the cake for 05-06.
Who was our best defensive player last year?

[DenverChief]

Who was our best defensive player last year?


Dalton :D

[el borracho]

Who was our best defensive player last year?
I'm not sure overall, but Jared Allen, a 4th round rookie, was one of the best.

[TRR]

Who was our best defensive player last year?

Did we have a best defensive player last season?

[DenverChief]

I'm not sure overall, but Jared Allen, a 4th round rookie, was one of the best.
:banghead: I miss football already

[DenverChief]

Did we have a best defensive player last season?

YOU SAID DALTON! I didn't quote you fast enough tho...Jared Allen...yeah forgot about that dude

[TRR]

Jared Allen had a very good rookie season sack wise, but he was awful against the run. I guess you could say Allen made an impact. Any other examples???

[tk13]

Bah! ROFL Fine. Who led the team in sacks?

[TRR]

I believe Dalton was our best Defensiver player last season.

[Freekofnature]

Its sad as hell when your best defensive player was Dalton.

Real sad.

[tk13]

Jared Allen had a very good rookie season sack wise, but he was awful against the run. I guess you could say Allen made an impact. Any other examples???
Fujita stepped in his rookie year.... Samie Parker and Siavii weren't slouches this year. No doubt overall our drafts haven't been great in recent years. I'm sure you could find plenty of examples league-wide of the draft helping a team immediately. You just can't gloss over the draft, it's the cheapest way to add quality talent.

[milkman]

While I believe that the corner position has been devalued by the added emphasis on the existing contact rules, I'd be in favor of this trade.

I agree wholeheartedly with the segment here that see this as the best use of a 2nd rounder.

If he gets a 12 mil signing bonus, the prorated portion, along with his salary, will count about 3 to 3 1/2 mil against the cap.

We'll need to add another CB, a 2nd tier type, and a top flight LB in FA, so that means that Carl will have to make another cut or 2, and restructure a couple of contracts to make these acqusitions.

Can he do it?
Will he?

[el borracho]

Jared Allen had a very good rookie season sack wise, but he was awful against the run. I guess you could say Allen made an impact. Any other examples???
Examples of other rookies to have an impact for the Chiefs?

Off the top of my head: Thomas, Okoye, Snow, Shields, Fujita, Sapp, Wesley, Morris, Parker.

[DenverChief]

Examples of other rookies to have an impact for the Chiefs?

Off the top of my head: Thomas, Okoye, Snow, Shields, Fujita, Sapp, Wesley, Morris, Parker.


MINNIS :cuss: :banghead:

[el borracho]

MINNIS :cuss: :banghead:
Now, why would you bring him up? I left him off the list for a reason.

[DenverChief]

Now, why would you bring him up? I left him off the list for a reason.


The diving TD catch against oakland was just sweeeet

[el borracho]

The diving TD catch against oakland was just sweeeet
yeah, that was good.... it was everything else he did that sucked!

[go bo]

MINNIS :cuss: :banghead:minies?

did you mean minies, as in miniskirts? (or whatever may be appropriate :D )

[DenverChief]

yeah, that was good.... it was everything else he did that sucked!


that TD (cuz it was against oakland) made him an awesome rookie :D

[TRR]

Examples of other rookies to have an impact for the Chiefs?

Off the top of my head: Thomas, Okoye, Snow, Shields, Fujita, Sapp, Wesley, Morris, Parker.

Benny Sapp? He was a FA pickup. We didn't draft him. Sly Morris isn't even in the NFL anymore, and his rookie numbers were alright. Wesley played average as a forced in rookie. Samie Parker did practicly nothing till the end of this season.

AGAIN I ASK THE QUESTION...WHO WOULD WE DRAFT IN THE 2ND ROUND THAT WOULD HAVE THE SAME IMPACT AS PATRICK SURTAIN.

[el borracho]

Benny Sapp? He was a FA pickup. We didn't draft him. Sly Morris isn't even in the NFL anymore, and his rookie numbers were alright. Wesley played average as a forced in rookie. Samie Parker did practicly nothing till the end of this season.

AGAIN I ASK THE QUESTION...WHO WOULD WE DRAFT IN THE 2ND ROUND THAT WOULD HAVE THE SAME IMPACT AS PATRICK SURTAIN.
Why would it matter in the context of this discussion if the rookie was drafted or not? Benny Sapp was a rookie who contributed.

Morris had an impressive rookie season and subsequently got hurt. In the context of this discussion it changes nothing. He still contributed as a rookie.

Parker did nothing until the end of the season and then did enough to raise serious question to Morton's job security. Parker, as a rookie, contributed when given the opportunity.

And again I state my position which is that our 2nd round pick does not have to equal or better Surtain's production to be a valuable contributor. You are of the opinion that the Chiefs best option is to spend the second on Surtain. I am of the opinion (based on a CB rich free-agent market and a CB rich draft) that the Chiefs would be better served signing a free-agent CB such as Smoot and using the 2nd round pick on another defensive prospect.

[TRR]

Why would it matter in the context of this discussion if the rookie was drafted or not? Benny Sapp was a rookie who contributed.

Morris had an impressive rookie season and subsequently got hurt. In the context of this discussion it changes nothing. He still contributed as a rookie.

Parker did nothing until the end of the season and then did enough to raise serious question to Morton's job security. Parker, as a rookie, contributed when given the opportunity.

And again I state my position which is that our 2nd round pick does not have to equal or better Surtain's production to be a valuable contributor. You are of the opinion that the Chiefs best option is to spend the second on Surtain. I am of the opinion (based on a CB rich free-agent market and a CB rich draft) that the Chiefs would be better served signing a free-agent CB such as Smoot and using the 2nd round pick on another defensive prospect.

You have managed to dodge the question again. It is a very simple one. The question is...With our 2nd round pick, who could we draft on defense that would make as much of an impact as Patrick Surtain? Because the initial discussion is Surtain for our 2nd round pick. Who we could pick up in FA at CB instead of Surtain was never my discussion.

BTW, we could still pickup Surtain and Smoot/Trotter/Rolle, etc. The trade for Surtain does not limit our FA ability.

[el borracho]

You have managed to dodge the question again. It is a very simple one. The question is...With our 2nd round pick, who could we draft on defense that would make as much of an impact as Patrick Surtain? Because the initial discussion is Surtain for our 2nd round pick. Who we could pick up in FA at CB instead of Surtain was never my discussion.

BTW, we could still pickup Surtain and Smoot/Trotter/Rolle, etc. The trade for Surtain does not limit our FA ability.
I'm not dodging anything. I am telling you that Smoot plus 2nd round pick is a better option than Surtain and no pick. You can disagree, of course, but that is my opinion. Both free-agency and the draft are CB rich this year. Why would we not play to that to the best of our ability?

[TRR]

I'm not dodging anything. I am telling you that Smoot plus 2nd round pick is a better option than Surtain and no pick. You can disagree, of course, but that is my opinion. Both free-agency and the draft are CB rich this year. Why would we not play to that to the best of our ability?


I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. You may very well be right. I was just simply stating that my initial question was 2nd round pick or Surtain. Adding other players via FA was never part of my discussion.

[el borracho]

BTW, we could still pickup Surtain and Smoot/Trotter/Rolle, etc. The trade for Surtain does not limit our FA ability.
And yes I do think the trade for Surtain limits our ability to add free-agent cornerbacks because I don't think the Chiefs can afford to pay Warfield 4 million dollars to be the nickel back nor do I think that Smoot or Rolle will come cheaply to play nickel back. Our best option (especially in a CB rich draft) is to add one free-agent CB and draft one CB. If we sign two free-agent CBs we will only have one day one draft pick we will get no other defensive help because the money and the draft picks will all be gone.

[Wallcrawler]

Both free-agency and the draft are CB rich this year. Why would we not play to that to the best of our ability?


Because the Chiefs have little to no ability drafting good players in the second round. 3 guys in the past 20 years have been solid contributors. The rest were trash.


Basicly, just look at us using this second round pick to "draft" Patrick Surtain to our team, press the fast forward button on his career to where he is NFL Stud quality, and can contribute to the defense NOW.


Sure, we could get a corner in the second round. But odds are he wont be worth a shit and then people will be bitching that we should have traded it for Patrick Surtain.

With Surtain WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING. Thats the most important thing. Drafting is never a sure thing. A guy can be an absolute monster in college and be a complete douche in the NFL. Surtain is a proven talent. Getting him for a second round pick is a steal.

[tk13]

Because the Chiefs have little to no ability drafting good players in the second round. 3 guys in the past 20 years have been solid contributors. The rest were trash.


Basicly, just look at us using this second round pick to "draft" Patrick Surtain to our team, press the fast forward button on his career to where he is NFL Stud quality, and can contribute to the defense NOW.


Sure, we could get a corner in the second round. But odds are he wont be worth a shit and then people will be bitching that we should have traded it for Patrick Surtain.

With Surtain WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING. Thats the most important thing. Drafting is never a sure thing. A guy can be an absolute monster in college and be a complete douche in the NFL. Surtain is a proven talent. Getting him for a second round pick is a steal.
Yeah, but I think he's talking in the sense that we're going to pay top dollar for a CB anyway, so why don't we do that while keeping the opportunity to draft a player onto our team open. Now if you think Surtain is the best CB on the market, or that we'll be able to add another corner through FA instead having to use that 2nd round pick to do it, or I guess if you think we don't need to add more than one CB to the defense, then the whole thing is moot.... but I think he's looking at in the sense that we have to find somebody to replace both McCleon and Bartee, or one of them is going to be playing a lot again next year. Surtain only solves half that problem, and if we only have a 1st round pick left then that means we have one shot to find another CB, an OLB to replace Barber, and possibly a MLB and then do the rest all through FA or the 2nd day of the draft... I think some people would consider that pretty tough to pull off and stay under the cap because we only seem to have 4-6 million in cap space. I honestly have no idea.

[keg in kc]

we only seem to have 4-6 million in cap space. I was under the impression we saved that much in releasing Holliday. Aren't we more in the 8-10 million range now?

(I'm not keeping up with this like I used to...)

[tk13]

I was under the impression we saved that much in releasing Holliday. Aren't we more in the 8-10 million range now?

(I'm not keeping up with this like I used to...)
I don't know, the only hard number from Carl has been at least 4.5 million. It could be a lot more and we all know how Carl likes to play his cards sometimes... we could have 10 million and he could be bluffing everybody. The way he seems to be trying to go after every corner on the market plus Trotter and everybody else makes it seem like we have more. We saved a lot of money by cutting Holliday but we were going to be way over the cap if we didn't....

[booger]

Redskins Close to Signing Rolle --
Mon Feb 28, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Washington Times reports the Redskins yesterday were on the verge of landing former Tennessee Titans CB Samari Rolle with a typically huge signing bonus, believed to be worth $15 million, NFL sources said. The move would reunite Rolle, 28, with Washington assistant head coach for defense Gregg Williams, who was defensive coordinator during Rolle's first three seasons, and with former teammate Steve Jackson, who now coaches the Redskins' safeties. It also means CB Fred Smoot, a starting cornerback the last four seasons, will be allowed to leave as a free agent. The two holdups apparently were Williams' need to assuage Redskins HC Joe Gibbs about Rolle's Feb. 15 arrest on a domestic assault charge and agent Peter Schaffer's focus on negotiations for two other clients, WR Derrick Mason and DE Trevor Pryce. Rolle's deal, however, appeared virtually completed. Meanwhile, a new contract for OT Chris Samuels could be finished in coming days. According to a source familiar with negotiations, the Redskins have boosted their offer substantially, positioning Samuels to receive the biggest signing bonus in club history.



Rolle & Carter Drawing Interest --
Mon Feb 28, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Nashville Tennessean reports reports surfaced yesterday that free-agent CB Samari Rolle was in serious talks with the Redskins, but the Chiefs are also making a push. The Dolphins are now among the teams interested in former Titans DT Kevin Carter.

[vckcchiefs04]

Just get it done CARL!!!

[tomahawk kid]

I don't know, the only hard number from Carl has been at least 4.5 million. It could be a lot more and we all know how Carl likes to play his cards sometimes... we could have 10 million and he could be bluffing everybody. The way he seems to be trying to go after every corner on the market plus Trotter and everybody else makes it seem like we have more. We saved a lot of money by cutting Holliday but we were going to be way over the cap if we didn't....

This is what I thought as well.

My impression was that the $4.5 mil number was a WORST case scenario.

Judging by our activity (thus far) in FA, I would say that we are more than $4.5 under the cap. Just my opinion.

[Chiefnj]

Those of us who are hesitant for KC to pull the deal for Surtain aren't saying don't do it because we feel Surtain isn't worth a 2nd round pick. Surtain is worth a 2nd rounder.

The question is, can KC bring in another free agent corner of similar skill for the same or less money and keep the 2nd round pick?

[The Bad Guy]

Those of us who are hesitant for KC to pull the deal for Surtain aren't saying don't do it because we feel Surtain isn't worth a 2nd round pick. Surtain is worth a 2nd rounder.

The question is, can KC bring in another free agent corner of similar skill for the same or less money and keep the 2nd round pick?

I don't know how many FA corners have the skill level of a Surtain. Smoot is good, but he's not as good. Baxter isn't, neither is Lucas.

The 2nd rounder to me is irrevelant. 3 decent players (if you count Reggie Tongue) in 20 years of 2nd round picks makes me violently ill.

[BigChiefFan]

Those of us who are hesitant for KC to pull the deal for Surtain aren't saying don't do it because we feel Surtain isn't worth a 2nd round pick. Surtain is worth a 2nd rounder.

The question is, can KC bring in another free agent corner of similar skill for the same or less money and keep the 2nd round pick?
There isn't anybody of the same skill level as Surtain. He's a NUMBER ONE CB. His signing would instantly upgrade the secondary and move Warfield to the number two CB. Law is another player who would be an instant upgrade, but given his current condition, we need to pass on him , until he can pass a physical. Rolle looks to be off the market and the other FAs aren't as good as Surtain.

[Eleazar]

With Surtain WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING. Thats the most important thing. Drafting is never a sure thing. A guy can be an absolute monster in college and be a complete douche in the NFL. Surtain is a proven talent. Getting him for a second round pick is a steal.

I wouldn't probably call it a steal, but it's good value for the pick. He's a physical, top 5 corner.

You'd have to make a great pick at #49 overall to get a player as good as him (as if there is some reason to believe we will do that), and even then they wouldn't be immediately effective.

We can either complete this deal, get our marquee corner now, and move on to concerns elsewhere on the defense, or we can keep wasting our time with the William Bartees of the second round.

I for one have NO CLUE why anyone would want to turn away pro bowl talent at a position of (great) need in favor of a Peterson draft choice.

But hey, maybe if we draft corners each of the next 10 years one of them will turn out to be good. Or something.

[Mr. Kotter]

I wouldn't probably call it a steal, but it's good value for the pick. He's a physical, top 5 corner.

You'd have to make a great pick at #49 overall to get a player as good as him (as if there is some reason to believe we will do that), and even then they wouldn't be immediately effective.

We can either complete this deal, get our marquee corner now, and move on to concerns elsewhere on the defense, or we can keep wasting our time with the William Bartees of the second round.

I for one have NO CLUE why anyone would want to turn away pro bowl talent at a position of (great) need in favor of a Peterson draft choice.

But hey, maybe if we draft corners each of the next 10 years one of them will turn out to be good. Or something.

Exactly.

[Chiefnj]

I don't know how many FA corners have the skill level of a Surtain. Smoot is good, but he's not as good. Baxter isn't, neither is Lucas.

The 2nd rounder to me is irrevelant. 3 decent players (if you count Reggie Tongue) in 20 years of 2nd round picks makes me violently ill.

If you are going to conclude that every 2nd round draft pick is a bust, why not conclude that every defensive free agent brought in under the Vermeil regime is a bust as well?

[The Bad Guy]

If you are going to conclude that every 2nd round draft pick is a bust, why not conclude that every defensive free agent brought in under the Vermeil regime is a bust as well?

Because I don't have a 20 year time frame to compare like I do the draft.

The difference is that the players that the Chiefs appear to be targeting THIS YEAR are top talent at their position. They aren't Vonnie Hollidays, Ray Crocketts or Dexter McCleons.

[Chiefnj]

There isn't anybody of the same skill level as Surtain. He's a NUMBER ONE CB. His signing would instantly upgrade the secondary and move Warfield to the number two CB. Law is another player who would be an instant upgrade, but given his current condition, we need to pass on him , until he can pass a physical. Rolle looks to be off the market and the other FAs aren't as good as Surtain.

If Surtain thinks he's as good as you say, then he will be demanding at least 15 million as a signing bonus and the Chiefs chances of getting him are close to zero.

[BigChiefFan]

If Surtain thinks he's as good as you say, then he will be demanding at least 15 million as a signing bonus and the Chiefs chances of getting him are close to zero.
That's why we haven't heard anything yet. Carl has already said the price is too high.

[Mr. Kotter]

That's why we haven't heard anything yet. Carl has already said the price is too high.

I'm hopin' they meet in the middle.... :hmmm:

[Archie Bunker]

Just a quick update on Surtain. Over at the Dolphins board they are saying that our offer is a mid rd pick(4th probably) and a 2nd or 1st next year.

[HipHopper4Life]

Sorry if this is a repost but both espn news and www.thegbnreport.com are saying that Miami wants a first round pick for Surtain. Espnnews is saying that the Jets are also in the mix and that they may be willing to part with their first for either Woodson or Surtain.


Teams that have shown some interest in Woodson include Kansas City and possibly the Giants. The Chiefs, though, are reported to be also interested in Miami CB Patrick Surtain who has been given permission by the Dolphins to find a trade for himself. The Dolphins reportedly want a #1 pick in exchange for Surtain, however, the Chiefs aren't likely to give up more than their second rounder. The Chiefs could also be looking at veteran free agent CBs Samari Rolle and/or Ty Law who were released by Tennessee and New England, respectively last week. Law, though, is still in a wheelchair after undergoing off-season surgery to repair a foot injury.

[The Bad Guy]

Sorry if this is a repost but both espn news and www.thegbnreport.com (http://www.thegbnreport.com) are saying that Miami wants a first round pick for Surtain. Espnnews is saying that the Jets are also in the mix and that they may be willing to part with their first for either Woodson or Surtain.

I would imagine there is zero chance that the Jets can trade for Surtain.

Miami knows they aren't getting a 1 - they have zero leverage to get a 1.

[The Bad Guy]

Just a quick update on Surtain. Over at the Dolphins board they are saying that our offer is a mid rd pick(4th probably) and a 2nd or 1st next year.

It would probably have to be a first next year to get it done. Why not just offer the 2nd rounder and be done with it already?

[Mr. Kotter]

It would probably have to be a first next year to get it done. Why not just offer the 2nd rounder and be done with it already?

Yup; exactly my thought.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

It would probably have to be a first next year to get it done. Why not just offer the 2nd rounder and be done with it already?

I agree.

It is said many, many times, but we can't draft to save our lives, so why be concerned about what pick it is?

Just get it done. Everyone knows he can negotiate, but come one...

[grandllama]

With Surtain WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING.

Bullshit. You never know what you are getting.

Two years ago we all wanted Huge Penis. We got Vonnie. Vonnie was a bust but still put up better numbers than Huge did in JVille.

Free Agency is a crap shoot. I'm all for getting Surtain, but don't ever imply that WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING...

It just doesn't happen.

[Rausch]

Bullshit. You never know what you are getting.

Two years ago we all wanted Huge Penis. We got Vonnie. Vonnie was a bust but still put up better numbers than Huge did in JVille.

Free Agency is a crap shoot. I'm all for getting Surtain, but don't ever imply that WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GETTING...

It just doesn't happen.

Brett Perriman would have been great, buy Jimmy Carter refused to go down alone...