Report:Royals trade Ramon Ramirez for Cocoa Crisp

[Sure-Oz]

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3684444&vkey=news_kc&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

Official!

KC lands Crisp in exchange for Ramirez
Royals acquire center fielder from Boston, deal rising reliever

By Dick Kaegel / MLB.com
KANSAS CITY -- The Royals' quest for a productive outfielder led to the acquisition of Coco Crisp from the Boston Red Sox on Wednesday.

The Royals obtained the fleet Crisp in a trade that sent setup reliever Ramon Ramirez to the Red Sox. A center fielder, Crisp could figure as the Royals' leadoff batter.

"He's somebody with a lot of experience, been a part of championship teams, has the ability to play center field and has had success at the top of the lineup. That was very appealing for us," Royals general manager Dayton Moore said.

The deal creates something of a crowd in the outfield if David DeJesus moves from center to left, where Mark Teahen was often stationed last year. Jose Guillen is the right fielder.

The acquisition of Crisp could trigger more deals. On Tuesday, Teahen was linked with the Chicago Cubs, although sources with that club have since downplayed that interest.

"I'm not going to be committal to where guys are going to play and where guys are going to hit. I like the options it gives us because of Coco's speed and what it does for our lineup," manager Trey Hillman said.

Last season for Boston, Crisp batted .283 in 118 games with seven home runs, 41 RBIs and 20 stolen bases. Although he lost playing time to Jacoby Ellsbury, Crisp returned to regular duty in the postseason and played well, going 10-for-24 in the playoffs.

This is the Royals' second deal for an everyday player. Earlier, they obtained slugging first baseman Mike Jacobs from the Florida Marlins for another right-handed reliever, Leo Nunez.

"I think it gives us more weapons, no doubt about it," Hillman said. "I hate to lose Noonie and I hate to lose Ramy, but it gives us an opportunity to do some things offensively, and we'll see how we can fill in the holes those two guys vacate."

Although Crisp's speed opens the possibility for more steals, both Hillman and Moore seemed equally impressed by Crisp's ability to cover center field.

Hot Stove

"Center field is a very important position, especially in our ballpark," Moore said. "It's a huge ballpark, and there are not a lot of home runs hit here. So we felt it was obviously very, very important for us. ... We felt that Coco Crisp was the best available player for us in center field."

DeJesus, though not a burner, covered center well, although left field was seen as a better fit for him.

Ramirez, obtained last spring from Colorado in a deal that eventually sent starter Jorge De La Rosa to the Rockies, developed into a dependable right-handed setup man for the Royals. In 71 games, he was 3-2 with a 2.64 ERA.

Ramirez, 27, blossomed last season after surviving a rough May. He held opponents to a .222 average, and right-handed batters hit just .153 against him. He had a good strikeout-to-walk ratio, 70-to-31 in 71 games.

"His numbers are good. He really made himself into a premier setup man," said Ramirez's agent, Paul Kinzer. "This is his opportunity to shine. He'll be in the spotlight now -- setting up for [Jonathan] Papelbon."

The trade sends Ramirez to a Red Sox team that won the World Series in 2004 and 2007 and came within a game of returning this year.

"I feel fine about it because I realize baseball is a business and every team tries to do the best for their organization," Ramirez said through a translator. "If I'm going to Boston, I'm going happily, and I will work as hard as I worked for Kansas City."

Crisp, 29, was with the Cleveland Indians from 2002 to 2005 and then was traded to the Red Sox in a six-player swap prior to the 2006 season. In seven seasons, the switch-hitter has a .280 average with a .344 on-base percentage. In 2005, he hit .300 for the Indians.

In center field, Crisp shows speed and covers a lot of ground and has an average arm.

[Pitt Gorilla]

That doesn't sound like a good deal. I like Ram Ram.

[BigChiefFan]

Nice move. Crisp isn't great with his at-bats, but his defense is stellar.

[Sure-Oz]

That doesn't sound like a good deal. I like Ram Ram.

I think we are looking at this from a homeristic point of view, kind've....

RAM RAM was pretty damn good for us but we do have a starting CF'er with some pop and a decent OBP. and can steal. Also plays excellent defense, probably his biggest strength. I think this may be a good trade in the end. We know Dayton has a good history of recovering his pen with scrubs or trades and making it pretty solid so far. Let's hope he has a decent replacement for Ram Ram. I liked Ram Ram though but i'll get over it....

[StcChief]

let's bet CoCo is pissed....

[Goapics1]

Welcome to Hell Coco!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Sure-Oz]

let's bet CoCo is pissed....

Maybe, but he'll get to start now, i believe he was backing up/splitting with jacoby ellsbury

[BigChiefFan]

Snap, crackle, pop.

[Sure-Oz]

I'd also say this trade could setup Teahen or Dejesus departing as well

[Fish]

Bye Teahen....

[Sam Hall]

Bye Teahen....

They should trade him to the Cubs for Mike Fontenot.

[Pitt Gorilla]

They should trade him to the Cubs for Mike Fontenot.This.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I thought this was a nick name or a joke until I heard the morning crew at 810 use the name "Cocoa Crisp".

That poor, poor bastard.

And I thought Flowers had it rough...

[RockChalk]

I like the trade.

Ram Ram was good for us, but he has one season of proven big league ability. Crisp has been pretty good the past few seasons and will be a much needed upgrade at centerfield. I think it also seals Teabag's fate, so I'm all for it.

[Sure-Oz]

I thought this was a nick name or a joke until I heard the morning crew at 810 use the name "Cocoa Crisp".

That poor, poor bastard.

And I thought Flowers had it rough...

Cocoa's real name is Covelli Crisp, it is a nickname

[StcChief]

Maybe, but he'll get to start now, i believe he was backing up/splitting with jacoby ellsbury Royals start....
it's like a move back to AAA to start.

[eazyb81]

Horrible deal IMO. Ramirez has nails as a setup man. Now we have no Ram-Ram and no Nunez. I would much rather have traded Ramirez for a guy like Pie that we could have held onto for a few years. Controlling Crisp for two years max, one of which is an overpriced year, is hardly ideal for us.

[Demonpenz]

Tuesday May 19th is Coco Crisp T shirt day

Wednesday aug 13th is Co Co crisp bobble head doll

[ChiTown]

I don't get it.

We just got DDJ twin brother. Their career stats are amazingly close, except for SB's - where CC is much more prolific.

That said, they both do a decent job getting on base, so I could see them batting 1-2. My problem with this is that we still don't have enough run producers. That leaves Guillen, Gordon and Jacobs as your power bats. Pardon me for not being overly excited with that. I'm not convinced Mike Jacobs is going to be the HR guy we were looking for - who knows.

[Sure-Oz]

I don't get it.

We just got DDJ twin brother. Their career stats are amazingly close, except for SB's - where CC is much more prolific.

That said, they both do a decent job getting on base, so I could see them batting 1-2. My problem with this is that we still don't have enough run producers. That leaves Guillen, Gordon and Jacobs as your power bats. Pardon me for not being overly excited with that. I'm not convinced Mike Jacobs is going to be the HR guy we were looking for - who knows.

I think dejesus could be a decent #2 or #3 guy with Crisp batting leadoff. DDJ showed the knack for getting rbi's last year, i could see him being an 80-90 rbi guy and getting on base consistently. His health has been the issue though.

[ChiTown]

I think dejesus could be a decent #2 or #3 guy with Crisp batting leadoff. DDJ showed the knack for getting rbi's last year, i could see him being an 80-90 rbi guy and getting on base consistently. His health has been the issue though.

That's a possibility:

1. Crisp - CF
2. DDJ - LF
3. Aviles - SS
4. Guillen - RF
5. Jacobs - 1B
6. Gordon - 3B
7. Butler - DH
8. Buck - C
9. Callaspo - 2B

[ChiefsCountry]

Personally I think they need to trade DDJ.

[ChiTown]

Personally I think they need to trade DDJ.

I'd rather that they trade for more pitching. I'm not comfortable at all with what we have returning.

Banny, Meche, Greinke, Hochevar & Davies.................no real warm and fuzzies with any of those guys. Lots of potential, but not one of them is a sure thing.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Tuesday May 19th is Coco Crisp T shirt day

Wednesday aug 13th is Co Co crisp bobble head doll

ROFLROFLROFL

[MVChiefFan]

That's a possibility:

1. Crisp - CF
2. DDJ - LF
3. Aviles - SS
4. Guillen - RF
5. Jacobs - 1B
6. Gordon - 3B
7. Butler - DH
8. Buck - C
9. Callaspo - 2B

Take out Buck and insert Olivo, but this is what we're looking at right now. We should have someone to replace Callaspo shortly.

[tyton75]

I think by opening day, DDJ or Teahan or both may not be on this team..

I have faith in Dayton to make the best moves for the team, just hope he hits a homerun.

And an everyday player is always going to be more valuable in my opinion that a setup reliever

[MVChiefFan]

I think by opening day, DDJ or Teahan or both may not be on this team..

I have faith in Dayton to make the best moves for the team, just hope he hits a homerun.

And an everyday player is always going to be more valuable in my opinion that a setup reliever

That means our GM will have one more HR than half our team.

[homey]

Horrible trade. The Royals have taken the strength of their team last year, their bullpen, and made it suspect. Ramirez was a stud and way more valuable than Crisp. If we find out the Royals are paying Crisp's $5 million salary next year, Moore should be fired. The Jacobs deal was bad enough, but this just makes no sense what-so-ever. I've lost confidence in Moore.

[ChiTown]

Take out Buck and insert Olivo, but this is what we're looking at right now. We should have someone to replace Callaspo shortly.

I don't believe that the Royals are real enamored with Olivo. I think Buck has pictures on DM fkg a goat...............

[Sure-Oz]

I don't believe that the Royals are real enamored with Olivo. I think Buck has pictures on DM fkg a goat...............

I heard somewhere Olivo would be the starter next year, thats why he was re-signed

[Demonpenz]

olivo will be the starter this year

[ChiTown]

I heard somewhere Olivo would be the starter next year, thats why he was re-signed

I REALLY hope that is true.

1. Crisp - CF
2. DDJ - LF
3. Aviles - SS
4. Guillen - RF
5. Jacobs - 1B
6. Gordon - 3B
7. Butler - DH
8. Olivo - C
9. Callaspo - 2B

I actually like that lineup......minus the sure thing power bat

[Sure-Oz]

Red Sox trade Crisp to Royals
2* Posted by:
Jon Heyman
* 11:19 AM ET 11.19
* Share

The Boston Red Sox have traded outfielder Coco Crisp to the Kansas City Royals for relief pitcher Ramon Ramirez, SI.com has confirmed.

[Demonpenz]

I REALLY hope that is true.

1. Crisp - CF
2. DDJ - LF
3. Aviles - SS
4. Guillen - RF
5. Jacobs - 1B
6. Gordon - 3B
7. Butler - DH
8. Olivo - C
9. Callaspo - 2B

I actually like that lineup......minus the sure thing power bat

Gordon, butler, Guillen, Jacobs will all hit for 20 homeruns this year.

[duncan_idaho]

Here's the thing... I think middle relievers - even setup men - are the easiest commodity to locate in baseball. Moore and his staff have proven their ability to scout, locate and find guys who will be reliable middle relievers.

Crisp is an excellent defensive center fielder (big upgrade from DeJesus) who will add a legitimate stolen base threat to the lineup. He's also a pretty tenacious hitter who will battle pitchers and doesn't give away at-bats. Here's hoping some of that will rub off...

Basically, the Royals have traded de la Rosa for Coco Crisp. That's an excellent deal.

The Royals also have a lot more flexibility in the outfield. They now COULD afford to move DeJesus if they wanted, and I think this makes them a lot more likely to trade Teahen (which needs to happen).

I'm not crazy about the idea of moving DeJesus, but if they can get a legitimate corner guy with some pop in return, I think that's a move they have to make.

[OmahaChief]

I like the deal. So we have traded Ramon and Leo for a couple bats. The strength of our farm system is pitching at this point so this might give those guys a chance to show us what they have. Moore also seems to be finding guys to plug into the bully since he has been he so I will trust he can find some more. This surely opens the door for another trade that hopefully nets us a young SS or 2b. I would guess that we would no longer be interested in Pie from the Cubs be he has the most talent of the guys rumored to be involved in the Teahan deal.

Both Leo and Ram Ram had career years last year so we are selling high which makes perfect sense. I like the thinking of Moore and appreciate the effort he is putting into his job. If nothing else he is making it interesting with the moves and giving us a bit of hope.

[BWillie]

This is honestly the worst trade I've ever seen. Coco Crisp is the most overrated outfielder in the MLB. He's going to bat .275 and hit 5 home runs. Big f*cking deal. We already have enough outfielders that can't hit home runs as it is. WTF

[duncan_idaho]

This is honestly the worst trade I've ever seen. Coco Crisp is the most overrated outfielder in the MLB. He's going to bat .275 and hit 5 home runs. Big f*cking deal. We already have enough outfielders that can't hit home runs as it is. WTF

Most overrated? Nah.

Crisp is an outstanding defensive centerfielder with very good speed who can swipe bases and has some line-drive power. He hit 15 and 16 home runs in his two full seasons in Cleveland before being traded to a tough hitters park - home run-wise - for line-drive guys, especially ones who do most of their damage lefthanded. He also battled injuries and reduced PT while in Boston.

I'd expect his power numbers to look about like DeJesus', but he will swipe 20-30 bags, easily, while hitting about .280, posting an OBP of .350 or above, and playing a great centerfield. That's great value for a middle reliever who has had ONE good year.

Trading high on middle relievers ALWAYS is a good idea, IMO...

[RJ]

That's a possibility:

1. Crisp - CF
2. DDJ - LF
3. Aviles - SS
4. Guillen - RF
5. Jacobs - 1B
6. Gordon - 3B
7. Butler - DH
8. Buck - C
9. Callaspo - 2B



Fugly, but it is what it is.

I'd put DDJ at the top. He doesn't steal bases like Crisp but he has a better OBP.

[RJ]

Most overrated? Nah.

Crisp is an outstanding defensive centerfielder with very good speed who can swipe bases and has some line-drive power. He hit 15 and 16 home runs in his two full seasons in Cleveland before being traded to a tough hitters park - home run-wise - for line-drive guys, especially ones who do most of their damage lefthanded. He also battled injuries and reduced PT while in Boston.

I'd expect his power numbers to look about like DeJesus', but he will swipe 20-30 bags, easily, while hitting about .280, posting an OBP of .350 or above, and playing a great centerfield. That's great value for a middle reliever who has had ONE good year.

Trading high on middle relievers ALWAYS is a good idea, IMO...


Why? He's never done it before. Crisp isn't- or at least shouldn't be- a leadoff hitter.

[BWillie]

Most overrated? Nah.

Crisp is an outstanding defensive centerfielder with very good speed who can swipe bases and has some line-drive power. He hit 15 and 16 home runs in his two full seasons in Cleveland before being traded to a tough hitters park - home run-wise - for line-drive guys, especially ones who do most of their damage lefthanded. He also battled injuries and reduced PT while in Boston.

I'd expect his power numbers to look about like DeJesus', but he will swipe 20-30 bags, easily, while hitting about .280, posting an OBP of .350 or above, and playing a great centerfield. That's great value for a middle reliever who has had ONE good year.

Trading high on middle relievers ALWAYS is a good idea, IMO...

I'm not really placing high value on middle relievers, or relievers in general. You need a few good ones though. Basically this puts Teahen on full-time duty as trade bait. I wanted to get rid of Teahen and find somebody better for the outfield but I don't really see how this is an upgrade.

Teahen and Crisp have about identical career OBP, (Teahens is actually higher) and at least Teahen hits home runs. Coco Crisp had some health problems last year too, and theres no WAY he will ever hit 15 home runs again, especially at Kaufman. What's he good for in Boston...7 home runs? He'll hit like 4-5 at Kaufman. Yes I know he can steal and adds some speed to the outfield but you could probably swap Joey Gathright and Coco Crisp and not really know much of a difference.

[Demonpenz]

CoCo crisp has 55 times more homeruns than Joey gathright

[chiefqueen]

Snap, crackle, pop.

Wrong cereal.

[duncan_idaho]

I'm not really placing high value on middle relievers, or relievers in general. You need a few good ones though. Basically this puts Teahen on full-time duty as trade bait. I wanted to get rid of Teahen and find somebody better for the outfield but I don't really see how this is an upgrade.

Teahen and Crisp have about identical career OBP, (Teahens is actually higher) and at least Teahen hits home runs. Coco Crisp had some health problems last year too, and theres no WAY he will ever hit 15 home runs again, especially at Kaufman. What's he good for in Boston...7 home runs? He'll hit like 4-5 at Kaufman. Yes I know he can steal and adds some speed to the outfield but you could probably swap Joey Gathright and Coco Crisp and not really know much of a difference.

There are a lot of differences between Crisp and Teahen.

1) Crisp is an elite defender in centerfield (second-best value defensively). Teahen can't play center. He IS a good rightfielder, but not truly elite.
2) Crisp is an elite base-stealer. Teahen is the best baserunner I've ever seen, but he is not a steals guy.
3) A guy that hits .280/.350/10-15 HR in centerfield, while stealing 30 bases and playing great defense, is a very good value. A guy playing right field, while producing like that (minus the steals) is a bad value.

Crisp is a far, far superior to Joey Gathright. For one thing, Crisp has played multiple full seasons as a starter - for GOOD baseball teams. Gathright has yet to last a full season as a starter - and he hasn't ever been on a team one would consider GOOD. Gathright is a slap hitter with no power. Crisp is a line-driver hitter with gap-to-gap power.

As for his power... keep in mind: Crisp only had 320 some at-bats this season. His best power is from the left side of the plate. Fenway is a notoriously bad ballpark for home runs for lefties. His home run production in Cleveland - a pretty neutral park - is a better indicator of his true power. Regardless, as I said, starting half his games at Kaufman, Crisp's power numbers will look similar to DeJesus. Which is fine for a centerfielder - and pretty good if that guy also is a plus defensively AND steals 20-30 bases.

Crisp is a much better baseball player than Mark Teahen and will continue to be unless/until Teahen ever begins to hit for the power his size suggests he should... the Crisp/Gathright comparison isn't even close.

And no, it doesn't help the Royals' power situation, but it does open up the possibility of trading DeJesus for a power bat (if a Teahen-centered package can't fetch one). And if DeJesus is retained, he will shift to left ... which makes him much more likely to survive the season healthy, playing a less-physically-demanding outfield spot.

[duncan_idaho]

Why? He's never done it before. Crisp isn't- or at least shouldn't be- a leadoff hitter.

Misread a stat line, my bad.

Still, he's in the .340s, which isn't bad.

And I agree with you on the leadoff thing. He should be used there only as a fill-in. He's a nice fit in the no. 2 hole, though.

[CrazyPhuD]

Interesting, well at least you can say that Moore isn't sitting on his hands with the team. He's trying to make it better.

Now if only the chiefs would do the same and trade LJ for some fruity pebbles.

[teedubya]

now if we could go back in time and UNTRADE Joey Gathright for J.P. Howell.

Im cool with CoCo... We need to play small ball to win, and he gets on base, and has a bit of pop.

Im down.





TAGS: Go Dayton Go, In Dayton We Trust, Royals to the 'ship!, Print em!

[OmahaChief]

One other thought I had. Let's assume that Crisp has a good first half and becomes a commodity at the trade deadline. Maybe we then deal him for some younger players. It seems the Royals always like to have a couple veterans with value each year to potentially trade. Just a thought.

[ChiTown]

After thinking a little more about this, I adjusted the lineup

1. DDJ - LF
2 Aviles - SS
3. Guillen - RF
4. Jacobs - 1B
5. Gordon - 3B
6. Butler - DH
7. Olivo - C
8. Callaspo - 2B
9. Crisp - CF

Crisp at the end of the lineup looks like a better fit with this club. It puts some speed and a guy that can get on base ahead of DDJ. It also moves Jacobs into the cleanup role, which is why he probably came to KC in the first place (with his presumed power). I'm still not enamored with what we have at 2b or catcher, but it will have to do for now. I would love to trade Teahen for the Cubs Mike Fontenot. I think that would be an outstanding deal for the Royals.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

[QUOTE=eazyb81;5232222] Horrible deal IMO. Ramirez has nails as a setup man. Now we have no Ram-Ram and no Nunez. [QUOTE]

exactly. this team traded their second and third best relievers for mediocre players. i don't get it.

what's next? joakim soria for mark ellis?

[Reerun_KC]

When is free cereal night?

[eazyb81]

After thinking a little more about this, I adjusted the lineup

1. DDJ - LF
2 Aviles - SS
3. Guillen - RF
4. Jacobs - 1B
5. Gordon - 3B
6. Butler - DH
7. Olivo - C
8. Callaspo - 2B
9. Crisp - CF



Call me crazy, but depending on what we get for Teahen, we could...COULD....push for .500 this season and potentially challenge for the division. I would like to see us sign a mid-tier starter like Randy Wolf or Brad Penny to fill out a rotation of Meche, Greinke, FA starter, Davies, and Hochevar.

Slowly but surely, DM is building a decent team.

[Miles]

Crisp was on fire down the stretch run of the regular season last year when he took over from a slumping Ellsbury. I guess if either of the players 2007 versions of themselves show up there will be a clear winner in this trade.

It is not a terrible trade for the Royals but it just doesn't make much sense from a payroll perspective. Ramirez is cost controlled for I believe another 4 years while Coco is due 5.7M this season which increases to 10M in 2010 (with 500k buyout). If the Sox did not pick up any of his 2010 salary, Coco looks a bit like a one year rental that the Royals would need to sign to an extension if they want to keep him past this year.

[duncan_idaho]

After thinking a little more about this, I adjusted the lineup

1. DDJ - LF
2 Aviles - SS
3. Guillen - RF
4. Jacobs - 1B
5. Gordon - 3B
6. Butler - DH
7. Olivo - C
8. Callaspo - 2B
9. Crisp - CF

Crisp at the end of the lineup looks like a better fit with this club. It puts some speed and a guy that can get on base ahead of DDJ. It also moves Jacobs into the cleanup role, which is why he probably came to KC in the first place (with his presumed power). I'm still not enamored with what we have at 2b or catcher, but it will have to do for now. I would love to trade Teahen for the Cubs Mike Fontenot. I think that would be an outstanding deal for the Royals.

Fontenot would be a nice fit. Think the Royals can maybe get more for Teahen (from the Cubs), but we'll see... here's my lineup:

1) DeJesus - LF
2) Crisp - CF
3) Aviles - SS
4) Guillen - RF
5) Jacobs - 1B
6) Gordon - 3B
7) Butler - DH
8) Olivo - C
9) Callaspo - 2B

Here's my train of thought... Callaspo is another speed guy and should get on base plenty in front of DeJesus. I put Crisp in the 2 hole because he's a more established hitter (better pitches to hit for DeJesus) and has more power than Callaspo. I'm also putting three table setters on base for my best run producer, Guillen.

I'm not crazy about having Jacobs in the five-hole. I'd like a guy who's a little less one-dimensional there and a more reliable run producer. If Gordon or Butler start living up to their potential, I think you drop Jacobs to the six spot, where he's a better fit.

The key, as always, will be how well Gordon and Butler hit. If both start raking, you can try one of them in the three-spot, move Aviles up a notch, and then drop Crisp down to ninth.

[eazyb81]

It is not a terrible trade for the Royals but it just doesn't make much sense from a payroll perspective. Ramirez is cost controlled for I believe another 4 years while Coco is due 5.7M this season which increases to 10M in 2010 (with 500k buyout). If the Sox did not pick up any of his 2010 salary, Coco looks a bit like a one year rental that the Royals would need to sign to an extension if they want to keep him past this year.

Crisp has an $8M option for 2010, which I expect we'll exercise if he plays reasonably well this year.

[kcchiefsus]

Horrible trade. The Royals have taken the strength of their team last year, their bullpen, and made it suspect. Ramirez was a stud and way more valuable than Crisp. If we find out the Royals are paying Crisp's $5 million salary next year, Moore should be fired. The Jacobs deal was bad enough, but this just makes no sense what-so-ever. I've lost confidence in Moore.

And that's why he's the GM and your some idiot on a message board.

[ChiTown]

And that's why he's the GM and your some idiot on a message board.

It never fails. Amazing!ROFL

[Archie F. Swin]

but...but...I thought pitching was the currency of baseball?

[Sure-Oz]

Deal is official now....re-posted official article rather than the speculated report.

[SPATCH]

Call me crazy, but depending on what we get for Teahen, we could...COULD....push for .500 this season and potentially challenge for the division. I would like to see us sign a mid-tier starter like Randy Wolf or Brad Penny to fill out a rotation of Meche, Greinke, FA starter, Banny, and Hochevar.

Slowly but surely, DM is building a decent team.

FYP

bannister will bounce back this year...

[Archie Bunker]

but...but...I thought pitching was the currency of baseball?

You spend currency to get the things you need, correct?

[Pitt Gorilla]

but...but...I thought pitching was the currency of baseball?Evidently it is. We purchased two legitimate hitters for a couple of setup-type guys.

[Kyle DeLexus]

I like the direction the club is headed in. With Moore doing what he does and Glass finally able to open the wallet and spend money not only on the current MLB roster but the farm system as well, the Royals are going to surprise a few people this year and will be playoff contenders in no time at all IMO.

[Sure-Oz]

We need Gordon and Butler to develop and progress next year. I want atleast a 90 rbi season from each of them...

[Sam Hall]

I'd say try to get a Teahen-for-Fontenot deal done and then trade something for a starting pitcher. If that something is Dejesus, then try to sign Juan Rivera.

The bullpen can wait. We saw how easily the Royals signed Ramirez.

[Sure-Oz]

I'd say try to get a Teahen-for-Fontenot deal done and then trade something for a starting pitcher. If that something is Dejesus, then try to sign Juan Rivera.

The bullpen can wait. We saw how easily the Royals signed Ramirez.

We traded for Ramirez...

and I would love to get Rivera anyway

[duncan_idaho]

I'd say try to get a Teahen-for-Fontenot deal done and then trade something for a starting pitcher. If that something is Dejesus, then try to sign Juan Rivera.

The bullpen can wait. We saw how easily the Royals signed Ramirez.

Juan Rivera and another starter would make me very happy...

[CHIEF4EVER]

Dayton Moore is making some shrewd moves IMO. I like the direction this team is going.

[DaWolf]

Horrible deal IMO. Ramirez has nails as a setup man. Now we have no Ram-Ram and no Nunez. I would much rather have traded Ramirez for a guy like Pie that we could have held onto for a few years. Controlling Crisp for two years max, one of which is an overpriced year, is hardly ideal for us.

Moore might have done that a year ago, but he seems to be sticking true to his point late in the season that he's not going to go into a season with people on his team who are not ready for the Bigs. He's going after guys he can afford who have played in the league for a few years and produced, yet who are also entering their primes...

[Hermcock]

We need Gordon and Butler to develop and progress next year. I want atleast a 90 rbi season from each of them...

90 RBI season? This isn't the 1980s son!

Fixed it for you

I want atleast an .875 OPS season from each of them

[KCChiefsMan]

well Mike Jacobs and Cocoa Crisp this offseason. Probably the best offseason for them in a while

[Sam Hall]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rosa and Pimentel replace Nunez and Ramirez. They say the worst deals are made for relievers. They are usually inconsistent and replaceable.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

You spend currency to get the things you need, correct?

why do they need coco crisp?

[Sure-Oz]

90 RBI season? This isn't the 1980s son!

Fixed it for you

I want atleast an .875 OPS season from each of them

Of course that would be really nice, lets see if they can break .800

[Mecca]

The Royals still have the most power starved outfield in the majors.

[Sure-Oz]

The Royals still have the most power starved outfield in the majors.

Agreed...

We need more power, i don't know where else they will attempt to get it...

I hope they sign Rivera, i just don't like a DDJ and Crisp in the OF personally, i'd like our LF'er with more pop

[beavis]

I wouldn't be surprised if Rosa and Pimentel replace Nunez and Ramirez. They say the worst deals are made for relievers. They are usually inconsistent and replaceable.

My thoughts exactly.

[teedubya]

"I think it gives us more weapons, no doubt about it," Hillman said. "I hate to lose Noonie and I hate to lose Ramy, but it gives us an opportunity to do some things offensively, and we'll see how we can fill in the holes those two guys vacate.... but it's exciting to get Mikey Jacobsie and Crispy in our lineup."

[Kyle DeLexus]

"I think it gives us more weapons, no doubt about it," Hillman said. "I hate to lose Noonie and I hate to lose Ramy, but it gives us an opportunity to do some things offensively, and we'll see how we can fill in the holes those two guys vacate.... but it's exciting to get Mikey Jacobsie and Crispy in our lineup."

Did he really call him Jacobsie and Crispy? if so......WOW

[teedubya]

No. I edited that quote from the OP. heh. But, Im sure he will call them something equally gay.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

No. I edited that quote from the OP. heh. But, Im sure he will call them something equally gay.

is that any gayer than all the fudgepackers on this forum that call brian bannister "banny"?

[Kyle DeLexus]

We also have Thiggy now for the Chiefs so maybe it's just a KC thing to add y or ie and make a nickname with it

[petegz28]

Props on this trade. I like it a lot!

[petegz28]

is that any gayer than all the fudgepackers on this forum that call brian bannister "banny"?

I fucking hate that.....I hate it, I hate it, I hate it! Call him Brian. Make up something creative with his last name like "inster" or call him "Brinster" or something......


"Banny" sounds like something a gay prostitute charges $5 extra for!

[KevB]

I don't understand the hate for either this deal or the Jacobs deal. They have flaws, but we gave up middle relievers. Crisp isn't going to block a deserving prospect, and he's an upgrade from what we have had out there. Jacobs allows Kila to prove it for a season in AAA, and if he deserves to play in front of Jacobs in 2010, we don't eat a bunch of salary. Moore is trying to upgrade the major league club without selling off prospects in the minors. All the while, the focus is on developing the farm system, which is the long term solution.

The only complaint that seems valid to me is the value/salary of Jacobs and Crisp. Maybe a little overpaid. But, I don't know what else is out there that we'd spend that short term money on.

[petegz28]

I don't understand the hate for either this deal or the Jacobs deal. They have flaws, but we gave up middle relievers. Crisp isn't going to block a deserving prospect, and he's an upgrade from what we have had out there. Jacobs allows Kila to prove it for a season in AAA, and if he deserves to play in front of Jacobs in 2010, we don't eat a bunch of salary. Moore is trying to upgrade the major league club without selling off prospects in the minors. All the while, the focus is on developing the farm system, which is the long term solution.

The only complaint that seems valid to me is the value/salary of Jacobs and Crisp. Maybe a little overpaid. But, I don't know what else is out there that we'd spend that short term money on.

Crisp>Gathright
Crisp>Meir
Crisp> DeJesus in CF

[SAUTO]

I don't understand the hate for either this deal or the Jacobs deal. They have flaws, but we gave up middle relievers. Crisp isn't going to block a deserving prospect, and he's an upgrade from what we have had out there. Jacobs allows Kila to prove it for a season in AAA, and if he deserves to play in front of Jacobs in 2010, we don't eat a bunch of salary. Moore is trying to upgrade the major league club without selling off prospects in the minors. All the while, the focus is on developing the farm system, which is the long term solution.

The only complaint that seems valid to me is the value/salary of Jacobs and Crisp. Maybe a little overpaid. But, I don't know what else is out there that we'd spend that short term money on.

QFT and jacobs hit 32 HRs last season, and MAYBE JUST MAYBE crisp can bring the attitude of a winner to this team

[petegz28]

QFT and jacobs hit 32 HRs last season, and MAYBE JUST MAYBE crisp can bring the attitude of a winner to this team

Yea, why sign guys who actually hit 30+ jacks or steal 20 bases every year when we can settle for guys with that "potential"?

ROFL

[ChiTown]

is that any gayer than all the fudgepackers on this forum that call brian bannister "banny"?

You're a little sensitive about your sexuality, aren't you. It's ok, big boy, we're here for you............

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Moore is trying to upgrade the major league club without selling off prospects in the minors. All the while, the focus is on developing the farm system, which is the long term solution.


see, the problem with this logic is that they are selling off guys who are already good in the majors, which is worse than selling off prospects in the minors. they gave up leo nunez, who is 25, and ramon ramirez, who is 27. if they would have traded mahay or grudzielanek or something, that would make sense. but i don't see the point of trading guys who are still young who have already proven that they can pitch at the major league level.

[SAUTO]

see, the problem with this logic is that they are selling off guys who are already good in the majors, which is worse than selling off prospects in the minors. they gave up leo nunez, who is 25, and ramon ramirez, who is 27. if they would have traded mahay or grudzielanek or something, that would make sense. but i don't see the point of trading guys who are still young who have already proven that they can pitch at the major league level.

nunez was always hurt, the other part would you PLEASE explain to claythan, mecca, can, hamas? PLEASE

[petegz28]

see, the problem with this logic is that they are selling off guys who are already good in the majors, which is worse than selling off prospects in the minors. they gave up leo nunez, who is 25, and ramon ramirez, who is 27. if they would have traded mahay or grudzielanek or something, that would make sense. but i don't see the point of trading guys who are still young who have already proven that they can pitch at the major league level.

Cause we need players like Crisp moreso than Nunez or Ramirez. I liked them both but I think we have come out better on both trades. I think our pitching staff will be fine. Our pitching coach seems to do good to get the best out of his players.

[KevB]

see, the problem with this logic is that they are selling off guys who are already good in the majors, which is worse than selling off prospects in the minors. they gave up leo nunez, who is 25, and ramon ramirez, who is 27. if they would have traded mahay or grudzielanek or something, that would make sense. but i don't see the point of trading guys who are still young who have already proven that they can pitch at the major league level.

Mahay or Grudz (who's a free agent, so isn't available to trade) wouldn't bring back Crisp or Jacobs. You have to trade some quality to get some quality back. Nunez has proven what exactly? He was very effective at times last year, but tends to get dinged up and was very hittable upon returning from injury. He doesn't get that many K's for a potential late inning guy. Ramirez was really good last season, and I hate to lose him. But the history of middle relievers is erratic to say the least, and Moore has proven to have the ability to find relievers off the street. I can understand some analysis with a level of criticism, but I'm sick of the constant bashing of these deals that are trading away marginally important players. This is the Royals trading Dye, Beltran or Damon. Before last year, not one of us had heard of RamRam. We got him for Jorge De La Soul for goodness sake.

[KevB]

The only thing that bothers me about our last two trades is that I didn't like them as much as the Olsen/Willingham and Swisher deals. Wish we could have gotten any one of those three guys, and it feels like we gave up just as much for the two guys we got.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Mahay or Grudz (who's a free agent, so isn't available to trade) wouldn't bring back Crisp or Jacobs. You have to trade some quality to get some quality back. Nunez has proven what exactly?

i know grudzielanek is a free agent, i was referring more to the opportunity that they had to trade those guys at the deadline last year.

as for nunez, he had a 2.98 ERA last year in 45 games, and gave up only 2 home runs all year. why are people acting like he is completely useless because he got hurt? his career is not exactly over because he spent part of a season on the DL.

[PinkFloyd]

I kind of actually like this trade... Hey - Moore has given us more action on trading in the last 2 years than penis head did in 5 years... At least the guy is trying... He learned from the best --- our ex GM now with the Braves...

Give it time... We'll be seeing a Royals playoff game wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before we ever see a Chiefs playoff game...

[ChiefsCountry]

Nunez was almost traded for Milton Bradley. You could tell the writing was on the wall for him.

[SAUTO]

i know grudzielanek is a free agent, i was referring more to the opportunity that they had to trade those guys at the deadline last year.

as for nunez, he had a 2.98 ERA last year in 45 games, and gave up only 2 home runs all year. why are people acting like he is completely useless because he got hurt? his career is not exactly over because he spent part of EVERY season on the DL.

FYP

[tk13]

This is just how the Braves roll. I don't have a problem with it...it's also what Billy Beane believes in... relievers are interchangable and use them at their peak as currency before they come back to earth (Peralta, Sisco, etc).

Two years ago we had Greinke/Soria/Dotel.... we totally flipped that around, and people worried, and last year we had Ramirez/Nunez/Soria. Now next year we'll probably have Rosa/Pimental/Soria. On pure potential that might be a better bullpen, but there are times where that'll bite you.

Not blown away by Crisp, but it's the same as the Jacobs deal.... just trying to get a bad offense to mediocre. Have very little power, get a guy who had a .500+ SLG%. Have zero speed, get a guy who can play good defense in our OF and can get on base and run a little bit.

[alanm]

This is just how the Braves roll. I don't have a problem with it...it's also what Billy Beane believes in... relievers are interchangable and use them at their peak as currency before they come back to earth (Peralta, Sisco, etc).

Two years ago we had Greinke/Soria/Dotel.... we totally flipped that around, and people worried, and last year we had Ramirez/Nunez/Soria. Now next year we'll probably have Rosa/Pimental/Soria. On pure potential that might be a better bullpen, but there are times where that'll bite you.

Not blown away by Crisp, but it's the same as the Jacobs deal.... just trying to get a bad offense to mediocre. Have very little power, get a guy who had a .500+ SLG%. Have zero speed, get a guy who can play good defense in our OF and can get on base and run a little bit.
Pretty much how I feel about the trade. It's not like I was emotionally attached to a guy we picked up mid season from the Rockies even though he did have a decent season for the Royals. Which probably had more to do with the fact that AL hitters didn't have much of a book on him.

[Reaper16]

Pretty much how I feel about the trade. It's not like I was emotionally attached to a guy we picked up mid season from the Rockies even though he did have a decent season for the Royals. Which probably had more to do with the fact that AL hitters didn't have much of a book on him.
He wasn't a midseason pickup. The AL had all season to adjust.

[alanm]

He wasn't a midseason pickup. The AL had all season to adjust. Ok, they got him in May. :spock:

[KevB]

i know grudzielanek is a free agent, i was referring more to the opportunity that they had to trade those guys at the deadline last year.


How do you know he didn't try to trade them?

[Sure-Oz]

Grudz really didn't have much value, if he was a gold glove SS that would've been different

[Reaper16]

Ok, they got him in May. :spock:
They got him in March. Before the season started. So, like I said: the AL had all season to adjust.