Go on the record: Who do you want as GM and Head Coach?

[crazycoffey]

God dammit, the stupidity of the "true fan" is beyond ****ing belief!

Holy ****!


holy fucking shit, the attitude and self rightousness of the pompus know it alls on this site if fucking beyond belief.

fucking dumb asses!

[crazycoffey]

For the people who want to keep Herm... I'd like you to list 5 things he has accomplished during his 3 seasons in KC to justify your desire to keep him on as head coach.


5) the list kcbubb made of the young players he drafted

4) adapted to what we had and let chan run the O

3) committed to a youth movement and got the ball rolling on that movement. BTW - it's the first year of getting it done his way. Let's see if it pans out, sans mega injuries (I hope)

2) he's got that young team, playing with injuries, motivated. Let him keep building on that motivation. Teaching, coaching, learning, improving. Pull the plug and start all over.

1) and this is the best of them all - he helped to get rid of Carl


BTW- I also think the new GM should have his say, let herm go if he sees fit to do so. But I won't be surprised or disappointed if he ended up keeping Herm. edit- I just saw chiefzilla's post....

[SAUTO]

Just a few days ago people were lambasting Clark, saying he didn't care about winning and was cheap. Funny how quickly things change.

"he loves soccer more:() silly people, his BROTHER is the soccer guy, clark has been involved in the football operation for years, and was very respected by other owners BEFORE lamar died

[SAUTO]

Yes, Hunt is looking to replace the general manager, but no, when he rattled off the qualities he's looking for in a new GM, he didn't say anything about looking for someone who has experience as a GM. :rolleyes:

youre right on this point, BUT you should also keep in mind that clark also wants someone who is about his own age, AND someone who is from outside the organization

[TrickyNicky]

GM- Scott Pioli
HC- Spag
OC- Chan Gailey(?)
DC- Sean McDermott

Pioli to draft quality guys. Spag to run the team. Gailey because he knows how to work with a limited offense. And McDermott who comes from the Jim Johnson school and knows Spag and both are big faith guys. Who better to run his D?

:thumb:

I'm willing to give McDermott the head job, but that'll do as well.

[Reerun_KC]

GM- Scott Pioli
HC- Spag
OC- Chan Gailey(?)
DC- Sean McDermott

Pioli to draft quality guys. Spag to run the team. Gailey because he knows how to work with a limited offense. And McDermott who comes from the Jim Johnson school and knows Spag and both are big faith guys. Who better to run his D?

this is okay...

But there has to be better opitions out there than Gailey.. And by all means I am thankfully for Gailey. He saved us from Herm this year, I mean really saved us from Herm complete dumbassery! I havent seen a coach so fucking clueless as Herm.. Just amazes me he can actually unzip his fly to take a wizz....

But I would like to see other canidates interviewed or suggested for the job...

[Chiefnj2]

Jack DelRio will make a good DC.

[Mecca]

I see some are still swallowing the Herm koolaid.

[KCJohnny]

You're serious, aren't you?
I mean...you really mean this?

Wow.
Yes.

[KCJohnny]

How would constantly winning 2-3 games a year fill Arrowhead? It isn't working this year. :shrug:
Marty won 101 games in 10 years.

Do the math.

[KCJohnny]

Because in a past Interview they had asked who Clark would like to see as the new GM and he said Schottenheimer. (I'll see if I can find it) and Schottenheimer has developed the teams he has been in charge of into contenders.

POW.
:arrow:

[KCJohnny]

:rolleyes:

From MONDAY:

“I want somebody who’s a shrewd evaluator of football talent,” Hunt said. “(His) job will be 24/7 to think about the football team. That’s the most important quality. Obviously I’m looking for a strong leader, a good communicator, preferably somebody who has experience in building a winning NFL team.”


Marty has NEVER been a GM and has NO experience building a winning NFL team as a GM. HE DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA.

Preferably, not necessarily.

[BigChiefFan]

Preferably, not necessarily.
What part of "outside the organization" do you not understand?

Stuck in the past I see.

[crazycoffey]

What part of "outside the organization" do you not understand?

Stuck in the past I see.


What's Marty's roll within the organization today? Last year? How long ago? What, you say he's not been with the organization for 10 years? I guess he DOES qualify as a candidate that is OUTSIDE the organization....

disclaimer - I'm not saying this to proclaim endorsment for Marty, just that you're being silly to say that he's not fresh eyes on what we have right now.

[BigChiefFan]

What's Marty's roll within the organization today? Last year? How long ago? What, you say he's not been with the organization for 10 years? I guess he DOES qualify as a candidate that is OUTSIDE the organization....

disclaimer - I'm not saying this to proclaim endorsment for Marty, just that you're being silly to say that he's not fresh eyes on what we have right now.So according to you, Marty is an authority on how to pick a GM-sure thing.

[crazycoffey]

So according to you, Marty is an authority on how to pick a GM-sure thing.


yeah, you lost me. oh well....

[Frosty]

Marty won 101 games in 10 years.

Do the math.

5-12 playoff record

0 Superbowl apperances (let alone wins).

The math adds up to a big fat zero.

[keg in kc]

I really don't care. I don't have a horse in the race, and I don't get a vote in the final decision.

[Reerun_KC]

5-12 playoff record

0 Superbowl apperances (let alone wins).

The math adds up to a big fat zero.

:clap:

Only a complete tard would want Marty back...

[FringeNC]

I think Marty gets a bum rap around here. I used to be a Marty-basher -- before his time at San Diego. With Wade Philips and what's his name as OC, Marty had a solid, solid team (Then again, with AJ Smith and two top coordinators, Marty had it good). Far better than anything he had here. It was built to win in the playoffs, but Marty actually had bad luck against NE rather than playing-not-to-lose. (There is a difference, and it's obvious if one actually watches the game.)

However, I don't want Marty here as GM because he has no history suggesting he has GM talent.

I think after all these years Marty has finally FINALLY cured himself of TFS. The guy came out and said he doesn't like Tennessee in the playoffs because they can't pass.

[bringbackmarty]

Kuharich-Ticket Booth
Pioli- GM
Gailey - HC
Curtis Johnson (saints wr coach) - OC
Clarence Brooks (Ravens DL coach) - DC
anybody but priefer - ST

[bringbackmarty]

Marty would be a good gm. Pioli obviously is better, but not realistic.

[DaKCMan AP]

Marty would be a good gm. Pioli obviously is better, but not realistic.

What has Marty done that would make you think he'd be a good choice for GM?

[crazycoffey]

What has Marty done that would make you think he'd be a good choice for GM?


what has he done that would make you think he WOULDN'T be a good choice for GM?

[patteeu]

Did he state so explicitly? No. However, he is looking for someone who "has experience in building a winning NFL team." I interpret that as someone who has experience in building a winning NFL team from the management side, not coaching. How many coaches have made the successful transition to GM?

Marty doesn't have any experience outside of coaching.

The key word there is "interpret". He didn't say it, which was my point. Maybe your interpretation is right and maybe not, but quoting Clark doesn't resolve that issue.

[Frosty]

Is my memory faulty? I seem to remember the second half of the '90s that Chiefs fans were bitching about the Chiefs not being able to find a QB, WR, and RB. The drafted defensive talent started to trickle off, too (holes filled by FA). Where is the "Marty is a great talent evaluator" coming from?

[patteeu]

So Herm is the only one who can develop these players?

Some of you dumb ****ers should hold a telethon so you can get some free money.

If Clark dumps Herm one season into the rebuild after presumably giving the rebuild his vote of confidence, how could any future head coach trust ownership to stay the course on a future rebuild?

People around here complained endlessly about Carl Peterson's attempt to keep the ball rolling year after year even though it resulted in records at or around 9-7 more often than not, but Carl kept his job for 20 years and right now we're talking about canning Herm 1 year into his rebuild. The moral of this story is clear: If you can avoid it, don't risk a rebuild even if you think it would be good for the team a few years down the road because you probably won't be here to enjoy it.

[HemiEd]

I see some are still swallowing the Herm koolaid.

That shit was sour before he ever got here.

[bringbackmarty]

Marty knows talent. How to build a winning organization, and culture. He knows what it takes to build a consistent winner. His teams are fairly balanced, since the offense is actually ahead of the defense he would be a good fit because he specializes in building strong defensive teams. If Kuharich stays on as president, he could help marty adjust to his new job.

There may be too much history with him here.

He is not the best candidate, but a realistic one who could be pretty good in the right situation.

[DaKCMan AP]

what has he done that would make you think he WOULDN'T be a good choice for GM?

He has zero experience in management. All of his experience is in coaching and there are very few coaches who have made the successful jump to GM.

Now, what has he done that makes you think he'd be a good choice?

[crazycoffey]

He has zero experience in management. All of his experience is in coaching and there are very few coaches who have made the successful jump to GM.

Now, what has he done that makes you think he'd be a good choice?

I don't know if he'd be a good GM or not - I was just curious as to how you assertained (with such certainty I might add) that he was teh sux.

I like marty, good memories of him as a coach. I was much younger then but watching him at washington and SD I seem to have the overall feeling that he's a teacher more than a coach. He has many years of good football knowledge and he's never been at that next level in mangement. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be successful at it.

[DaKCMan AP]

I don't know if he'd be a good GM or not - I was just curious as to how you assertained (with such certainty I might add) that he was teh sux.

I like marty, good memories of him as a coach. I was much younger then but watching him at washington and SD I seem to have the overall feeling that he's a teacher more than a coach. He has many years of good football knowledge and he's never been at that next level in mangement. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be successful at it.

No, it doesn't prove that he'd be teh suck. However, I'd much prefer someone who's younger, has experience in management (ie. Dir of Football Operations, Dir of Pro Personnel, Dir of Scouting Operations) and comes from an organization with a strong track record of building through the draft and making smart free agent acquisitions/retentions.

[crazycoffey]

No, it doesn't prove that he'd be teh suck. However, I'd much prefer someone who's younger, has experience in management (ie. Dir of Football Operations, Dir of Pro Personnel, Dir of Scouting Operations) and comes from an organization with a strong track record of building through the draft and making smart free agent acquisitions/retentions.


trying to recall those good'ol days - didn't carl and marty butt heads alot about how to run the chiefs? I know he butted heads with the other two. Could it be he has enough knowledge in football operations to make that step and still be able to "not forget where he came from"?

another point of view. Being in the service as an enlisted guy, I have an Leutenant and a company comander that I have more army experience than. but because I haven't gone to Officer Canditate School, any officer would say "he's just an enlisted sgt./he doesn't know what it takes to be an officer".

And let me also tell you, also as an enlisted guy; I have alot more respect in the officers that started out enlisted and moved up a few levels before making the change, than I do the recent college grad that had family money and could get the degree to go straight into being a commissioned officer with zero army experience.

[DaKCMan AP]

trying to recall those good'ol days - didn't carl and marty butt heads alot about how to run the chiefs? I know he butted heads with the other two. Could it be he has enough knowledge in football operations to make that step and still be able to "not forget where he came from"?

Yes - and it is believed that Marty grasped more control in the 1997-1998 offseason in which he proceeded to 'thug up' the team, have huge preseason expectations (this was the year Fatlock predicted 16-0), crash and burn to an 7-9 season including the Monday Night Meltdown and subsequently resign.

[Terribilis]

GM- Condoleeza Rice
Head Coach: Craig T. Nelson

[RustShack]

VP fooball operations- Vermiel
GM- Shottenhiemer
HC- Cowher
Ass. HC- Saunders
OC-Gailey
DC- Gun





:banghead:

[The Bad Guy]

If Clark dumps Herm one season into the rebuild after presumably giving the rebuild his vote of confidence, how could any future head coach trust ownership to stay the course on a future rebuild?

People around here complained endlessly about Carl Peterson's attempt to keep the ball rolling year after year even though it resulted in records at or around 9-7 more often than not, but Carl kept his job for 20 years and right now we're talking about canning Herm 1 year into his rebuild. The moral of this story is clear: If you can avoid it, don't risk a rebuild even if you think it would be good for the team a few years down the road because you probably won't be here to enjoy it.

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

[RedThat]

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

Exactly. You said it right there.

Im getting tired of that word "rebuilding" too. Im convinced it's an excuse to cover for Herms sorry a**.

I think the purpose of "rebuilding" is defeated in Kansas City due to the fact that Herm and his coaching staff do not coach up their young players to the best of their ability. It really comes down to not only drafting well, but good player development.

How can you have good player development when your coaching sucks?

And if you have bad player development, how can you expect your drafts to go well?

Rebuilding is pointless if your coaching staff sucks.

If you really think about it, they all factor in together.

[chiefzilla1501]

What a surprise, we disagree again. Canning a head coach isn't as simple as counting wins and losses. By that argument, Jeff Fisher should have been canned in the middle of 2006 when he won only 9 games out of 37. That's 1 win out of every 5--equally as bad.

I think Herm's firing is a foregone conclusion and I think it's a good decision. But I also think he got a raw deal and it's because there are those like you that think that any team could be coached out of a wet paper bag. Jeff Fisher is an amazing coach that proved that there is no remedy for a team in the middle of a rebuild. That is not even slightly saying that Herm Edwards is Jeff Fisher, but it does say that good coaches often struggle to win games when the talent on the team sucks.

And make no mistake that Carl Peterson's treatment of the word "rebuild" as if it were a 4-letter word is the main reason we are where we are today. He watched the team get old, he fucked up draft after draft between 1999-2005, and we are hearing a lot of chatter that he is the main reason the team didn't start the rebuild until 2008 when it was 2 years too late.

The word "rebuild" is more than appropriate. It is what a team must do when your front office does such a lousy job managing the team that you wake up in 2006 and there are a handful of good players left on your roster. Good teams don't overhaul their roster--those that do, like Tennessee and Tampa, overcome a few losing seasons before they start winning. Good teams never have to rebuild because their rosters are so deep from years of good drafting and smart personnel moves.

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

[The Bad Guy]

What a surprise, we disagree again. Canning a head coach isn't as simple as counting wins and losses. By that argument, Jeff Fisher should have been canned in the middle of 2006 when he won only 9 games out of 37. That's 1 win out of every 5--equally as bad.

I think Herm's firing is a foregone conclusion and I think it's a good decision. But I also think he got a raw deal and it's because there are those like you that think that any team could be coached out of a wet paper bag. Jeff Fisher is an amazing coach that proved that there is no remedy for a team in the middle of a rebuild. That is not even slightly saying that Herm Edwards is Jeff Fisher, but it does say that good coaches often struggle to win games when the talent on the team sucks.

And make no mistake that Carl Peterson's treatment of the word "rebuild" as if it were a 4-letter word is the main reason we are where we are today. He watched the team get old, he ****ed up draft after draft between 1999-2005, and we are hearing a lot of chatter that he is the main reason the team didn't start the rebuild until 2008 when it was 2 years too late.

The word "rebuild" is more than appropriate. It is what a team must do when your front office does such a lousy job managing the team that you wake up in 2006 and there are a handful of good players left on your roster. Good teams don't overhaul their roster--those that do, like Tennessee and Tampa, overcome a few losing seasons before they start winning. Good teams never have to rebuild because their rosters are so deep from years of good drafting and smart personnel moves.

Jeff Fisher took the Titans to the Super Bowl. He had success in this league. He earned the right to go through some rough years with Titans.

What the fuck has Herm done to earn a free pass.

Wins and losses are the only thing I give a shit about as a fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think you're on point here, but keep in mind that most players take 2-3 years to develop, most teams only pull 3 or 4 good rookies out of the draft/undrafted picks in a good year, and few teams rely on undrafted rookies and second day draft picks to the extent that we do.

Carl Peterson left this team so depleted that we forced rookies to contribute right away before they were ready, and we forced low-round, undrafted rookies to compete when they would be cut by most teams. I don't know that there has ever been a team in NFL history that has been asked to do so much with so little talent.

Exactly. You said it right there.

Im getting tired of that word "rebuilding" too. Im convinced it's an excuse to cover for Herms sorry a**.

I think the purpose of "rebuilding" is defeated in Kansas City due to the fact that Herm and his coaching staff do not coach up their young players to the best of their ability. It really comes down to not only drafting well, but good player development.

How can you have good player development when your coaching sucks?

And if you have bad player development, how can you expect your drafts to go well?

Rebuilding is pointless if your coaching staff sucks.

If you really think about it, they all factor in together.

[chiefzilla1501]

You are again missing the point.

I said that when a team is enduring a rebuild, even the best coaches in the league like Jeff Fisher struggle to win games.

There are lots of reasons to blame Herm Edwards for the problems in KC. But you absolutely cannot ignore the lemon of a team that was handed to him in 2005. And that was the result of front office mismanagement that happened well before Herm came into KC.

Pointing to wins and losses doesn't account for the roster he was given to work with. Blame Herm for poor game management and maybe not getting the most out of guys like McBride and Hali, but don't blame him for the fact that Peterson's mismanagement of the Chiefs led to 7 years of failed drafts and the oldest roster in football.


Jeff Fisher took the Titans to the Super Bowl. He had success in this league. He earned the right to go through some rough years with Titans.

What the **** has Herm done to earn a free pass.

Wins and losses are the only thing I give a shit about as a fan of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

[The Bad Guy]

You are again missing the point.

I said that when a team is enduring a rebuild, even the best coaches in the league like Jeff Fisher struggle to win games.

There are lots of reasons to blame Herm Edwards for the problems in KC. But you absolutely cannot ignore the lemon of a team that was handed to him in 2005. And that was the result of front office mismanagement that happened well before Herm came into KC.

Pointing to wins and losses doesn't account for the roster he was given to work with. Blame Herm for poor game management and maybe not getting the most out of guys like McBride and Hali, but don't blame him for the fact that Peterson's mismanagement of the Chiefs led to 7 years of failed drafts and the oldest roster in football.

The lemon of a team that was handed to him? You act like this job was forced on Herm Edwards. He fucking knew the team he was inheriting. He knew the problems that existed here. He worked here when Carl was here, so he should have known the person he was dealing with.

These are all the problems he BROUGHT onto himself.

I must have missed the memo where Herm was held at gunpoint to leave NY to come here.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I think you're on point here, but keep in mind that most players take 2-3 years to develop, most teams only pull 3 or 4 good rookies out of the draft/undrafted picks in a good year, and few teams rely on undrafted rookies and second day draft picks to the extent that we do.

Carl Peterson left this team so depleted that we forced rookies to contribute right away before they were ready, and we forced low-round, undrafted rookies to compete when they would be cut by most teams. I don't know that there has ever been a team in NFL history that has been asked to do so much with so little talent.

All herm had to do was not be terrible and he failed in my book.
No one expected playoffs this year just don't be embarrassing.
Your argument would carry more weight with me if most games were like carolina atlanta games.
But we have had 7 close games that were lost that could have been w's.
Thats bad coaching .
Rod marinelli would have done better this year than herm.

[chiefzilla1501]

Let's play a fun game here. You are head coach of the 2005 Chiefs. The starting roster Carl Peterson hands you is the following:

QB: Damon Huard
LT: Jordan Black
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann (by the way, Wiegmann is starting to decline)
RG: Will Shields (by the way, he's a year away from retirement)
RT: Chris Terry
RB: Larry Johnson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Eddie Kennison (on the rapid decline)
WR: Samie Parker
WR: Dante Hall
TE: Tony Gonzalez

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Ryan Sims
DT: Junior Siavii
DE: Eric Hicks
OLB: Derrick Johnson
MLB: Kawika Mitchell
OLB: Kendrell Bell
FS: Greg Wesley
SS: Sammy Knight
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

And oh, by the way, by 2008, 5 of those guys will be retired or too old to play effectively, 5 of those guys are so bad that they'll never find work outside of KC, and 4 of those guys will be situational backups. That's 14 guys you have to replace and almost all of these guys have even lousier backups backing them up.

You have 3 drafts and no money to spend to fix this mess. Your move, slick.

You can't possibly look at that 2005 roster without barfing. This team was a sinking ship well before Herm came into town, but rather than let the ship sink and then rebuild it, Peterson put some duct tape on the ship and forced it to float.

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Let's play a fun game here. You are head coach of the 2005 Chiefs. The starting roster Carl Peterson hands you is the following:

QB: Damon Huard
LT: Jordan Black
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann (by the way, Wiegmann is starting to decline)
RG: Will Shields (by the way, he's a year away from retirement)
RT: Chris Terry
RB: Larry Johnson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Eddie Kennison (on the rapid decline)
WR: Samie Parker
WR: Dante Hall
TE: Tony Gonzalez

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Ryan Sims
DT: Junior Siavii
DE: Eric Hicks
OLB: Derrick Johnson
MLB: Kawika Mitchell
OLB: Kendrell Bell
FS: Greg Wesley
SS: Sammy Knight
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

And oh, by the way, by 2008, 5 of those guys will be retired or too old to play effectively, 5 of those guys are so bad that they'll never find work outside of KC, and 4 of those guys will be situational backups. That's 14 guys you have to replace and almost all of these guys have even lousier backups backing them up.

You have 3 drafts and no money to spend to fix this mess. Your move, slick.

You can't possibly look at that 2005 roster without barfing. This team was a sinking ship well before Herm came into town, but rather than let the ship sink and then rebuild it, Peterson put some duct tape on the ship and forced it to float.

Zilla-

That doesn't change the fact that for even as young and inexperienced as this team is, they have had the opportunity to win 6-7 games and poor coaching has gotten in the way.

Teams ARE allowed to develop AND win at the same time, you know.

[chiefzilla1501]

Yes, it was probably a bad decision on his part. But then, given the amount of control Peterson gave Vermeil, he probably expected to be afforded the same luxury.

It's been pretty much common knowledge that Herm wanted to rebuild and Peterson resisted every step of the way.

Had Peterson not stood in the way, this team would have been blown up in 2005 and we would be three steps ahead now than we currently are.

I think Herm is an 8-8 or a 9-7 coach at best right now. That's not good enough. And I'd be okay with him being fired on that premise. But I don't think he deserves nearly the amount of criticism he gets for screw-ups that were made by the front office, particularly ones that he fought against.

The lemon of a team that was handed to him? You act like this job was forced on Herm Edwards. He ****ing knew the team he was inheriting. He knew the problems that existed here. He worked here when Carl was here, so he should have known the person he was dealing with.

These are all the problems he BROUGHT onto himself.

I must have missed the memo where Herm was held at gunpoint to leave NY to come here.

[chiefzilla1501]

Zilla-

That doesn't change the fact that for even as young and inexperienced as this team is, they have had the opportunity to win 6-7 games and poor coaching has gotten in the way.

Teams ARE allowed to develop AND win at the same time, you know.

I've said many times that Herm is not a good enough coach to pull off big wins and make it to the Super Bowl, and that he is a flawed coach.

What I am arguing against is those who also blame him for personnel problems and the fact that we were forced to rebuild, which were largely the fault of the front office. Or the fact that the team's irresponsible management forced way more late-round/undrafted players into the lineup than a normal team should.

I have rarely argued against Herm's dumb game management. But from a personnel standpoint, people are pointing the gun at the wrong guy.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Let's play a fun game here. You are head coach of the 2005 Chiefs. The starting roster Carl Peterson hands you is the following:

QB: Damon Huard
LT: Jordan Black
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann (by the way, Wiegmann is starting to decline)
RG: Will Shields (by the way, he's a year away from retirement)
RT: Chris Terry
RB: Larry Johnson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Eddie Kennison (on the rapid decline)
WR: Samie Parker
WR: Dante Hall
TE: Tony Gonzalez

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Ryan Sims
DT: Junior Siavii
DE: Eric Hicks
OLB: Derrick Johnson
MLB: Kawika Mitchell
OLB: Kendrell Bell
FS: Greg Wesley
SS: Sammy Knight
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

And oh, by the way, by 2008, 5 of those guys will be retired or too old to play effectively, 5 of those guys are so bad that they'll never find work outside of KC, and 4 of those guys will be situational backups. That's 14 guys you have to replace and almost all of these guys have even lousier backups backing them up.

You have 3 drafts and no money to spend to fix this mess. Your move, slick.

You can't possibly look at that 2005 roster without barfing. This team was a sinking ship well before Herm came into town, but rather than let the ship sink and then rebuild it, Peterson put some duct tape on the ship and forced it to float.
None of herm's other qualities can compensate for his bad game day management
If you don't see that I just don't know what to say..
DO you think he'll some how get better at making gameday decisions?
And using your arguement how come vermeils old guys seemed to have less injuries than herms young bucks?
Thats a problem that has followed him from the jets.

[dorseybowe]

Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-Pioli. And Cowher.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-Pioli. And Cowher.
Agree
To people who don't want pioli because they think its all bellicheat i say fine
hire pioli and have cower play bellicheat

[The Bad Guy]

Let's play a fun game here. You are head coach of the 2005 Chiefs. The starting roster Carl Peterson hands you is the following:

QB: Damon Huard
LT: Jordan Black
LG: Brian Waters
C: Casey Wiegmann (by the way, Wiegmann is starting to decline)
RG: Will Shields (by the way, he's a year away from retirement)
RT: Chris Terry
RB: Larry Johnson
FB: Tony Richardson
WR: Eddie Kennison (on the rapid decline)
WR: Samie Parker
WR: Dante Hall
TE: Tony Gonzalez

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Ryan Sims
DT: Junior Siavii
DE: Eric Hicks
OLB: Derrick Johnson
MLB: Kawika Mitchell
OLB: Kendrell Bell
FS: Greg Wesley
SS: Sammy Knight
CB: Patrick Surtain
CB: Eric Warfield

And oh, by the way, by 2008, 5 of those guys will be retired or too old to play effectively, 5 of those guys are so bad that they'll never find work outside of KC, and 4 of those guys will be situational backups. That's 14 guys you have to replace and almost all of these guys have even lousier backups backing them up.

You have 3 drafts and no money to spend to fix this mess. Your move, slick.

You can't possibly look at that 2005 roster without barfing. This team was a sinking ship well before Herm came into town, but rather than let the ship sink and then rebuild it, Peterson put some duct tape on the ship and forced it to float.

FOR THE MILLIONTH FUCKING TIME, NO ONE FORCED HERMAN EDWARDS TO TAKE THIS TEAM.

He had options. He could have stayed in New York. He didn't have to come here. He chose to do so. He knew the shape the roster was in. He knew what he was getting into.

Why the fuck should I feel sorry for him? His stupid ass wanted to coach here. He made promises when he was hired that he hasn't fulfilled.

I don't know how I look at a 6-30 record without barfing, but I manage to do it.

[Buehler445]

FOR THE MILLIONTH FUCKING TIME, NO ONE FORCED HERMAN EDWARDS TO TAKE THIS TEAM.

He had options. He could have stayed in New York. He didn't have to come here. He chose to do so. He knew the shape the roster was in. He knew what he was getting into.

Why the fuck should I feel sorry for him? His stupid ass wanted to coach here. He made promises when he was hired that he hasn't fulfilled.

I don't know how I look at a 6-30 record without barfing, but I manage to do it.

:Lin:

I don't...

[chiefzilla1501]

None of herm's other qualities can compensate for his bad game day management
If you don't see that I just don't know what to say..
DO you think he'll some how get better at making gameday decisions?
And using your arguement how come vermeils old guys seemed to have less injuries than herms young bucks?
Thats a problem that has followed him from the jets.

I've said a million times that I don't think he's a good gameday coach. And I've said a million times that that's good enough reason to fire him.

I don't think I have to explain myself.

[Dylan]

FOR THE MILLIONTH ****ING TIME, NO ONE FORCED HERMAN EDWARDS TO TAKE THIS TEAM.

He had options. He could have stayed in New York. He didn't have to come here. He chose to do so. He knew the shape the roster was in. He knew what he was getting into.

Why the **** should I feel sorry for him? His stupid ass wanted to coach here. He made promises when he was hired that he hasn't fulfilled.

I don't know how I look at a 6-30 record without barfing, but I manage to do it.


Cue in D2112. ...


LMAO

[Reerun_KC]

Cue in D2112. ...


LMAO

I thought there was some rifts between Herm and the GM, etc...

[Dylan]

I thought there was some rifts between Herm and the GM, etc...

I'm not really sure what happened -- I don't actually think the reporters knew very much --

I think there is some basis in what was reported in the Daily News Dec 2007 -- Here's the article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/12/25/2007-12-25_exjets_coach_herm_edwards_wont_revisit_s-3.html

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not really sure what happened -- I don't actually think the reporters knew very much --

I think there is some basis in what was reported in the Daily News Dec 2007 -- Here's the article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/12/25/2007-12-25_exjets_coach_herm_edwards_wont_revisit_s-3.html

everything about Herm just oozes slim and shit...

I cant wait til he is fired here...

[djrcmay]

Frank Ganz and Gunther Cunningham

[Reerun_KC]

Frank Ganz and Gunther Cunningham

Players quit on Gun at the end of his second year... Hell even that blowhard toolbag Grunny.... He boasts about it....

[Rausch]

FOR THE MILLIONTH ****ING TIME, NO ONE FORCED HERMAN EDWARDS TO TAKE THIS TEAM.

He had options. He could have stayed in New York. He didn't have to come here. He chose to do so. He knew the shape the roster was in. He knew what he was getting into.

Why the **** should I feel sorry for him? His stupid ass wanted to coach here. He made promises when he was hired that he hasn't fulfilled.

I don't know how I look at a 6-30 record without barfing, but I manage to do it.

No one told him or Carl to wait until year 3 of a 4 year deal to rebuild either.

It was clear we were an old team just barely hanging on Herm's first year. Even then we had almost no depth and very little youth...

[Reerun_KC]

No one told him or Carl to wait until year 3 of a 4 year deal to rebuild either.

It was clear we were an old team just barely hanging on Herm's first year. Even then we had almost no depth and no youth...

The rebuild was an result of Carl and Herm both trying to save their jobs....

Both tried to sell the fans a playoff push last year with and broken down LJ and Huard...

It was until about week 9 last year that they realized they where in deep shit and started the so called rebuild talk.... Since then, its been one catastrophic mess after another....

It will take the next GM and HC at least next year to get this rudderless ship righted and steering straight...

[patteeu]

Trust ownership?

This ownership stuck with the same man for 20 seasons to run this organization.

The moral of the story is this league is a production based business regardless of a rebuild. Herm has won 6 games out of 30. Sit back and think about those numbers for 2 seconds. 1 win out of every 5.

If this GM says he wants to go in another direction, it shouldn't be too hard of a sell to Clark considering just about every stat that matters points in the direction of Herm getting canned.

I'm tired of the word rebuilding too. It's rebuilding when your team sucks. Other teams win with completely overhauled rosters. What it comes down to is superior coaching.

I guess you can take this "production based business" business to any short-sighted extreme that you want. Maybe the head coach ought to be fired after each loss instead of after a single bad year. I'm talking about a little longer range thinking than you are, I guess.

[Sully]

So.
Let me see if I understand these herm supporters.

Forget all the blunders in game calling, challenges, clock management, and (IMO) draft picks...we simply can't dump him because it's a rebuild.

Is that about right?

[Reerun_KC]

So.
Let me see if I understand these herm supporters.

Forget all the blunders in game calling, challenges, clock management, and (IMO) draft picks...we simply can't dump him because it's a rebuild.

Is that about right?

No its because Herm is the only coach in the NFL that can identify talent. Herm can win with talent, he has proven that before...ROFL

[Sully]

No its because Herm is the only coach in the NFL that can identify talent. Herm can win with talent, he has proven that before...ROFL

ROFL

I stand corrected.

[The Bad Guy]

I guess you can take this "production based business" business to any short-sighted extreme that you want. Maybe the head coach ought to be fired after each loss instead of after a single bad year. I'm talking about a little longer range thinking than you are, I guess.

Of course I'm not talking about a game-by-game basis.

There is nothing that shows me that Herm Edwards is a short-term, or long-term solution.

He's mediocre, and I don't want a mediocre coach leading this team for the future.

[Reerun_KC]

Of course I'm not talking about a game-by-game basis.

There is nothing that shows me that Herm Edwards is a short-term, or long-term solution.

He's mediocre, and I don't want a mediocre coach leading this team for the future.

Hes about 17 games from even being close to mediocre...

[BigChiefFan]

Is it wonder Carl got to stay so long with fans that make any and every excuse for the organization?

[jAZ]

Schottenheimer as GM

Cowher as coach

In some ways, I'd be ok with that. But Marty seemed unable to build through the draft as HC. I'd rather have Herm at GM than Marty. But I'd take Marty/Cower.

However, my preference is:

Pioli & Cower

[patteeu]

The rebuild was an result of Carl and Herm both trying to save their jobs....

Both tried to sell the fans a playoff push last year with and broken down LJ and Huard...

It was until about week 9 last year that they realized they where in deep shit and started the so called rebuild talk.... Since then, its been one catastrophic mess after another....

It will take the next GM and HC at least next year to get this rudderless ship righted and steering straight...

:shake: I guess people see what they want to see. Don't you remember Hard Knocks when it sure looked like Herm wanted to go with Brodie Croyle from the beginning and Carl threw a wet blanket on the idea by saying something about going with the guy who was most likely to help win games now (regardless of the long range consequences)?

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

I stand corrected.

Its okay Sully, As soon as you convert to the side of Herman's You will understand the value of running the clock out and kicking FG's.

Regardless, its okay, it happens, its called life, therefore, GET OVER IT!!!

[Sully]

Its okay Sully, As soon as you convert to the side of Herman's You will understand the value of running the clock out and kicking FG's.

Regardless, its okay, it happens, its called life, therefore, GET OVER IT!!!

Can I challenge plays that will obviously not be overturned? And by obvious, I mean that Stevie Wonder slaps his head when he hears that Herm has thrown the red flag.

[Reerun_KC]

:shake: I guess people see what they want to see. Don't you remember Hard Knocks when it sure looked like Herm wanted to go with Brodie Croyle from the beginning and Carl threw a wet blanket on the idea by saying something about going with the guy who was most likely to help win games now (regardless of the long range consequences)?

Yes and I puked, but Herm didnt resist the issue and start the season with "his" guy.. He buckled under the pressure, so instead of standing up for himself, he weasled his way into Clarks boxers....

Herm is not without fault, He is a coward that hides behind the big game he talks...

[Reerun_KC]

Can I challenge plays that will obviously not be overturned? And by obvious, I mean that Stevie Wonder slaps his head when he hears that Herm has thrown the red flag.

Dude!:clap:ROFL

You will learn that is Chapter 3, Herms book for successful NFL football called, "This aint no Arena League boys!"

[patteeu]

Of course I'm not talking about a game-by-game basis.

There is nothing that shows me that Herm Edwards is a short-term, or long-term solution.

He's mediocre, and I don't want a mediocre coach leading this team for the future.

I know you're not talking about a game-by-game basis, I'm just pointing out that at some point short-term thinking gets ridiculous. If Clark fires Herm because he has weighed all the pros and cons and he thinks it makes the most sense over the long term for the Chiefs then I have no problem with it. If he fires him just so he can sell more season tickets in 2009 to emotional fans who want Herm gone, then I think it's a mistake.

Contrary to what it sounds like you're saying, IMO, the case for firing Herm isn't open and shut. I'm not against firing him (especially if not doing so stands in the way of getting a top notch GM). I just think there are some drawbacks to firing him that ought to be considered, one of which is the message it sends to any future coaches/GMs who consider blowing up the team and starting a fresh new push toward a Superbowl.

[BigChiefFan]

I know you're not talking about a game-by-game basis, I'm just pointing out that at some point short-term thinking gets ridiculous. If Clark fires Herm because he has weighed all the pros and cons and he thinks it makes the most sense over the long term for the Chiefs then I have no problem with it. If he fires him just so he can sell more season tickets in 2009 to emotional fans who want Herm gone, then I think it's a mistake.

Contrary to what it sounds like you're saying, IMO, the case for firing Herm isn't open and shut. I'm not against firing him (especially if not doing so stands in the way of getting a top notch GM). I just think there are some drawbacks to firing him that ought to be considered, one of which is the message it sends to any future coaches/GMs who consider blowing up the team and starting a fresh new push toward a Superbowl.
Don't you think next year would be a fresh, new start, if we had a, fresh, new coach?

Next year will be a rebuild regardless, nobody could turn this team around in one year, not with Herm as the coach-he will costs us games on game management alone-not really somebody to hitch your wagon to. Herm's record speaks volumes and cannot be ignored, nor can his game-day decisions. Add to that, the number 32 defense and you have a recipe for epic fail.

My, Goodness, why don't some of you want to be the BEST and quit endorsing a LOSER? Endorsing a half-assed coach is a loser's mentality.

[Reerun_KC]

I know you're not talking about a game-by-game basis, I'm just pointing out that at some point short-term thinking gets ridiculous. If Clark fires Herm because he has weighed all the pros and cons and he thinks it makes the most sense over the long term for the Chiefs then I have no problem with it. If he fires him just so he can sell more season tickets in 2009 to emotional fans who want Herm gone, then I think it's a mistake.

Contrary to what it sounds like you're saying, IMO, the case for firing Herm isn't open and shut. I'm not against firing him (especially if not doing so stands in the way of getting a top notch GM). I just think there are some drawbacks to firing him that ought to be considered, one of which is the message it sends to any future coaches/GMs who consider blowing up the team and starting a fresh new push toward a Superbowl.

Its would send more of a message that losing 24 of your last 30 or the quest for mediocrity in KC is unacceptable.

If you want to preform on the highest level and win championships, then this is the place you want to come, but if your looking for an easy paycheck at Club Herm, then you need to go else where!

Besides no respectable GM or GM canidate wants to come and babysit Herm... He will want to bring in his own people to build upon. Thats just the way it goes, it has nothing to do with negative message sent around the league, its just business....

[chiefzilla1501]

Of course I'm not talking about a game-by-game basis.

There is nothing that shows me that Herm Edwards is a short-term, or long-term solution.

He's mediocre, and I don't want a mediocre coach leading this team for the future.

Your last point is finally something I can agree with. He is a mediocre coach. Not the horrible one people present him to be.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I know you're not talking about a game-by-game basis, I'm just pointing out that at some point short-term thinking gets ridiculous. If Clark fires Herm because he has weighed all the pros and cons and he thinks it makes the most sense over the long term for the Chiefs then I have no problem with it. If he fires him just so he can sell more season tickets in 2009 to emotional fans who want Herm gone, then I think it's a mistake.

Contrary to what it sounds like you're saying, IMO, the case for firing Herm isn't open and shut. I'm not against firing him (especially if not doing so stands in the way of getting a top notch GM). I just think there are some drawbacks to firing him that ought to be considered, one of which is the message it sends to any future coaches/GMs who consider blowing up the team and starting a fresh new push toward a Superbowl.

I can only hope that during the interview this exchange takes place

Clark: OK if not herm who?

Potential GM: ______________(insert name )
Clark: Fine that's the direction we wil pursue if that's what it takes to get this done.

I can dream:shrug:

[Reerun_KC]

Your last point is finally something I can agree with. He is a mediocre coach. Not the horrible one people present him to be.

http://americatop100.com/fotos/albums/userpics/10001/youtube-star-chris-crocker-glitter.gif

[Reerun_KC]

I can only hope that during the interview this exchange takes place

Clark: OK if not herm who?

Potential GM: ______________(insert name )
Clark: Fine that's the direction we wil pursue if that's what it takes to get this done.

I can dream:shrug:

Lets hope, its all we can ask for....

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by kcbubb
Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Dwayne Bowe
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Kolby Smith
Jarrad Page
Tyler Thigpen
Glenn Dorsey
Tank Tyler

Development of these young players. people say they want to win a superbowl. You have to develop a good roster to achieve that. The roster is developing.

[QUOTE=The Bad Guy;5306188]

So Herm is the only one who can develop these players?

Some of you dumb ****ers should hold a telethon so you can get some free money.

So, you don't think Herm has done a good job developing undrafted free agents, rookies, and waived players like:

Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Tyler Thigpen????????????

And to answer your question, no I don't think that every coach can develop undrafted or rookie players. When is the last time the chiefs drafted and developed a cornerback?????

[patteeu]

Don't you think next year would be a fresh, new start, if we had a, fresh, new coach?

Next year will be a rebuild regardless, nobody could turn this team around in one year, not with Herm as the coach-he will costs us games on game management alone-not really somebody to hitch your wagon to. Herm's record speaks volumes and cannot be ignored, nor can his game-day decisions. Add to that, the number 32 defense and you have a recipe for epic fail.

My, Goodness, why don't some of you want to be the BEST and quit endorsing a LOSER? Endorsing a half-assed coach is a loser's mentality.

Did you actually think you read an endorsement in that post? :spock:

[The Bad Guy]

[quote=The Bad Guy;5306188]Originally Posted by kcbubb
Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Dwayne Bowe
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Kolby Smith
Jarrad Page
Tyler Thigpen
Glenn Dorsey
Tank Tyler

Development of these young players. people say they want to win a superbowl. You have to develop a good roster to achieve that. The roster is developing.



So, you don't think Herm has done a good job developing undrafted free agents, rookies, and waived players like:

Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Tyler Thigpen????????????

And to answer your question, no I don't think that every coach can develop undrafted or rookie players. When is the last time the chiefs drafted and developed a cornerback?????

How exactly has he developed Jamal Charles? Has Charles done something I'm unaware of? He's a 3rd round talent that was advertised as having great speed. So far, what has Herm done with him? He's no superstar, he's exactly what we thought he was when we drafted him.

If you think Herm is the one who developed Thigpen, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

I'll give Herm Carr and Leggette. Flowers and Albert were already super talented.

Keep grasping at those straws.

[chiefzilla1501]

:shake: I guess people see what they want to see. Don't you remember Hard Knocks when it sure looked like Herm wanted to go with Brodie Croyle from the beginning and Carl threw a wet blanket on the idea by saying something about going with the guy who was most likely to help win games now (regardless of the long range consequences)?

Patteeu, I'm with you.
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/clubhouse.asp?sport=Nfl&majteam=KC
"The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Those who act like Herm should have overpowered Carl Peterson have no idea how the system works. Did anyone see how the Lane Kiffin thing went down? You revolt against your GM, and you get fired. That's not Herm's fault, that's Carl's fault for being so stubborn. Yet, this was a pattern. Herm wanted to rebuild, Carl didn't. We know who was right on that one. Herm wanted to suspend LJ, Carl didn't. Herm was right there too.

I think it speaks volumes that Clark Hunt quickly forced Peterson's resignation but is still unsure about Herm. I think he's smart enough to know who is most responsible for this mess, and it's clearly Carl Peterson. Now, I think Herm has done enough this season to lose his job, but this team wouldn't be nearly as bad if Peterson listened to him in the first place and blew up this team a year ago.

[kcbubb]

I'm 35 and I like watching the events unfold. I don't like to watch them lose, but I won't sulk very long about it when they do. We haven't won a playoff in 15 years, but we've been in the playoffs fairly regularly until recent.

Last years sucked balls but this year I saw hope, hope that carl/clark/herm were about to try something different. They did, they did START something different. Carl obviously had to be the first headpiece to leave, because it was so far off from what he wants to do, a philosophy relying more heavily on free agents. One that worked for him for a long time too.

I really think Herm got the ball rolling on this change, sold the idea to clark (which in turn got carl out of here) he has the player's attention, and the players are learning/improving. We aren't watching the same game if you are going to tell me you can't see some steady improvements with several players on both sides of the ball. We've come close to winning some big games against some pretty good teams with mostly rookies, and rookies that weren't even our starting rookies at the begining of the season in some cases.

Yes that is why I say I don't think Herm is a bad coach.

I've seen him make some mistakes on the sideline, and it pisses me off too. But I think he stays unless it becomes a deal breaker for the new GM. If that happens, I won't be off sulking, I'll be very interested and tuned in to find out who the new coach will be.

But the bottom line is, I don't have a single damn thing to say about who it is, the new GM or if a new coach comes in. some of the arguing here is downright ignorant.

BTW - I contest your self promoted title as "realist" - I believe I'm the one being a realist and you are being a Meccamist.

well said.

[Reerun_KC]

Patteeu, I'm with you.
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/clubhouse.asp?sport=Nfl&majteam=KC
"The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Those who act like Herm should have overpowered Carl Peterson have no idea how the system works. Did anyone see how the Lane Kiffin thing went down? You revolt against your GM, and you get fired. That's not Herm's fault, that's Carl's fault for being so stubborn. Yet, this was a pattern. Herm wanted to rebuild, Carl didn't. We know who was right on that one. Herm wanted to suspend LJ, Carl didn't. Herm was right there too.

I think it speaks volumes that Clark Hunt quickly forced Peterson's resignation but is still unsure about Herm. I think he's smart enough to know who is most responsible for this mess, and it's clearly Carl Peterson. Now, I think Herm has done enough this season to lose his job, but this team wouldn't be nearly as bad if Peterson listened to him in the first place and blew up this team a year ago.

Carls the debil and Herm sits at the right hand of Jesus?

[Reerun_KC]

Did you actually think you read an endorsement in that post? :spock:

Yep, your bleeding 110% Herm now..

Sorry.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Patteeu, I'm with you.
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/clubhouse.asp?sport=Nfl&majteam=KC
"The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Those who act like Herm should have overpowered Carl Peterson have no idea how the system works. Did anyone see how the Lane Kiffin thing went down? You revolt against your GM, and you get fired. That's not Herm's fault, that's Carl's fault for being so stubborn. Yet, this was a pattern. Herm wanted to rebuild, Carl didn't. We know who was right on that one. Herm wanted to suspend LJ, Carl didn't. Herm was right there too.

I think it speaks volumes that Clark Hunt quickly forced Peterson's resignation but is still unsure about Herm. I think he's smart enough to know who is most responsible for this mess, and it's clearly Carl Peterson. Now, I think Herm has done enough this season to lose his job, but this team wouldn't be nearly as bad if Peterson listened to him in the first place and blew up this team a year ago.
Disagreeing with carl peterson isn't enough to legitimize herm. It just means he has a pulse.

[Craqhead]

Scott Pioli for GM.

Give Herm 1 year before ya fire his arse. This way Pioli gets his feet wet in the AFC West, and has a chance too go after the coach he chooses. If he fires Herm seconds after being hired, well I work for a good moving co. Herm maybe we can get ya good deal and get ya outta town in 2 days =D

[chiefzilla1501]

Carls the debil and Herm sits at the right hand of Jesus?

That's pretty funny that anytime anybody says anything 1% positive of Herm, that's the impression people get.

I've said multiple times that Herm is not a good gameday coach. But if you're going to blame the Chiefs for personnel problems, blame the right person. There's debate about whether Herm can coach up players. But it is undebatable that from a personnel standpoint, Carl Peterson screwed this roster up from 1999-2005 by bringing in worthless but expensive free agents, extending contracts for players like Bartee who sucked, and being the worst drafting team in the NFL. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe they were both among the worst drafters in the NFL AND the oldest team in the NFL. That's a really bad combination. So when we talk about developing players, realize that while most teams have a strong foundation of young players to work with, Herm has been forced to rely on more second day draft picks and undrafted players than most coaches would ever have to work with.

Blame coaching decisions and arguably development of players on Herm. Blame the personnel/rebuild problems on Carl. That's all I'm saying.

[patteeu]

Yep, your bleeding 110% Herm now..

Sorry.

:LOL: OK, I stand corrected.

[RippedmyFlesh]

That's pretty funny that anytime anybody says anything 1% positive of Herm, that's the impression people get.

I've said multiple times that Herm is not a good gameday coach. But if you're going to blame the Chiefs for personnel problems, blame the right person. There's debate about whether Herm can coach up players. But it is undebatable that from a personnel standpoint, Carl Peterson screwed this roster up from 1999-2005 by bringing in worthless but expensive free agents, extending contracts for players like Bartee who sucked, and being the worst drafting team in the NFL. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe they were both among the worst drafters in the NFL AND the oldest team in the NFL. That's a really bad combination. So when we talk about developing players, realize that while most teams have a strong foundation of young players to work with, Herm has been forced to rely on more second day draft picks and undrafted players than most coaches would ever have to work with.

Blame coaching decisions and arguably development of players on Herm. Blame the personnel/rebuild problems on Carl. That's all I'm saying.
I am misguided in venting on you about
I am just frustrted.
While rebuilding is the way to go you have to draft to match the philosophy of the head coach.
To me that philosophy is the most important issue.
Herm is drafting players who are ready to step in today, guys who were freshman starters were esp coveted.
Just because a draft pick is more nfl ready today doesnt mean he'll be the best player.But thats the safe route which shows up in every thing herm does.
I don't want to draft players to match herm i want players to match the NEW head coah.

[kcbubb]

[quote=kcbubb;5310731]

How exactly has he developed Jamal Charles? Has Charles done something I'm unaware of? He's a 3rd round talent that was advertised as having great speed. So far, what has Herm done with him? He's no superstar, he's exactly what we thought he was when we drafted him.

If you think Herm is the one who developed Thigpen, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

I'll give Herm Carr and Leggette. Flowers and Albert were already super talented.

Keep grasping at those straws.

Herm's job entering the nfl was a scout. He evaluated talent. He had input in the draft. The fact that we have Carr, Leggette, Flowers, and Albert is a credit to him. He wasn't the only one involved, but he still deserves some credit.

Talent or draft position does not insure success. Look at Vernon Gholston. Is he talented? Yes. Has been successful yet? No. Herm deserves credit for developing talented players.

Herm has supported Gailey in designing an offense that suits Thigpen. Most NFL QB's could not be productive behind that offensive line.

And to answer your question about Charles, Charles has shown that he has the ability to play in this league. He has shown that he can make big plays. He can catch the ball and be a change of pace back for LJ.

What did Greg Hill show when he was drafted? He was a high draft pick. Using your line of thinking, he was talented, he should have been successful.

Going into almost every game the opposing roster is more talented and more experienced. You have unrealistic expectations. The same unrealistic expectations held by most people on this board. Very rarely can you take free agents off the street and start them in the NFL and expect to win. Do you know how many players the Chiefs have on their roster like that?

[RippedmyFlesh]

[quote=The Bad Guy;5310742]

Herm's job entering the nfl was a scout. He evaluated talent. He had input in the draft. The fact that we have Carr, Leggette, Flowers, and Albert is a credit to him. He wasn't the only one involved, but he still deserves some credit.

Talent or draft position does not insure success. Look at Vernon Gholston. Is he talented? Yes. Has been successful yet? No. Herm deserves credit for developing talented players.

Herm has supported Gailey in designing an offense that suits Thigpen. Most NFL QB's could not be productive behind that offensive line.

And to answer your question about Charles, Charles has shown that he has the ability to play in this league. He has shown that he can make big plays. He can catch the ball and be a change of pace back for LJ.

What did Greg Hill show when he was drafted? He was a high draft pick. Using your line of thinking, he was talented, he should have been successful.

Going into almost every game the opposing roster is more talented and more experienced. You have unrealistic expectations. The same unrealistic expectations held by most people on this board. Very rarely can you take free agents off the street and start them in the NFL and expect to win. Do you know how many players the Chiefs have on their roster like that?


Did we get good players from the last draft? Yes but i say just off the top of my head had any of the following teams had the same picks their results based on their history
would have been just as good as ours.

new england
pittsburgh
ny giants
tenn
denver
sd
tamps bay
carolina
green bay
dallas
Thats just off the top of my head I am prob leaving someone out...

[The Bad Guy]

[quote=The Bad Guy;5310742]

Herm's job entering the nfl was a scout. He evaluated talent. He had input in the draft. The fact that we have Carr, Leggette, Flowers, and Albert is a credit to him. He wasn't the only one involved, but he still deserves some credit.

Talent or draft position does not insure success. Look at Vernon Gholston. Is he talented? Yes. Has been successful yet? No. Herm deserves credit for developing talented players.

Herm has supported Gailey in designing an offense that suits Thigpen. Most NFL QB's could not be productive behind that offensive line.

And to answer your question about Charles, Charles has shown that he has the ability to play in this league. He has shown that he can make big plays. He can catch the ball and be a change of pace back for LJ.

What did Greg Hill show when he was drafted? He was a high draft pick. Using your line of thinking, he was talented, he should have been successful.

Going into almost every game the opposing roster is more talented and more experienced. You have unrealistic expectations. The same unrealistic expectations held by most people on this board. Very rarely can you take free agents off the street and start them in the NFL and expect to win. Do you know how many players the Chiefs have on their roster like that?

You love mediocrity. I may have unrealistic expectations, but I want to win, not suck off the head coach of a 2-12 team.

If you are satisfied with this team with Herm, please shoot yourself.

[The Bad Guy]

[quote=kcbubb;5310786]


Did we get good players from the last draft? Yes but i say just off the top of my head had any of the following teams had the same picks their results based on their history
would have been just as good as ours.

new england
pittsburgh
ny giants
tenn
denver
sd
tamps bay
carolina
green bay
dallas
Thats just off the top of my head I am prob leaving someone out...

I did not say this above. This bubb idiot did. Please don't confuse me with him.

Thank you.

[gblowfish]

GM: Jim Schaaf
Coach: John Mackovic.

Or, sorry.
Thought it was 1985 again.

[Otter]

I don't understand how after watching Herm for three seasons someone can honestly say to themselves "this is the guy I want managing the game in a Super Bowl".

[BigChiefFan]

I don't understand how after watching Herm for three seasons someone can honestly say to themselves "this is the guy I want managing the game in a Super Bowl".Denial is the only logical explanation.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Your last point is finally something I can agree with. He is a mediocre coach. Not the horrible one people present him to be.

I disagree. He is a horrible coach. He isn't coaching these players up. He can't make adustments and he can't anticipate what adjustments his opposition might make. He has a record over the last two years of 6-26. These numbers do count. Many a coach gets fired for that. Would you say Norv is a horrible coach..?...me too. I see no difference between the two. The most recent SD debacle is the most glaring example of a horrible coach getting out coached by a horrible coach.

Herm will not be missed by anyone except those who love to lose.

[The Bad Guy]

I don't understand how after watching Herm for three seasons someone can honestly say to themselves "this is the guy I want managing the game in a Super Bowl".

The piece of shit doesn't even watch the Super Bowl. What competitive NFL head coach doesn't watch the biggest game in their sport?

[chiefzilla1501]

There's an ENORMOUS difference. Norv Turner was given a roster full of pro bowlers in the prime of their careers. He has a first round QB, an MVP running back, a decent offensive line, and a defense that ranked in the top 5 for years without losing many players to injury, age, or free agency. Herm Edwards has had to deal almost exclusively with lower round draft picks and undrafted rookies. There's a difference between coaching up a first round player like Philip Rivers and a 6th round QB like Tyler Thigpen.

The claim that Turner and Herm have similar situations couldn't be more wrong.

I agree that a lot of players aren't being coached up. But I also believe that he has had a far greater challenge coaching guys up than any coach in the NFL. No coach has been asked to do more with as little as Herm has.

So yeah, the big difference between the two is that Norv is making chicken shit out of chicken salad, while Herm is making chicken shit out of chicken shit.

I disagree. He is a horrible coach. He isn't coaching these players up. He can't make adustments and he can't anticipate what adjustments his opposition might make. He has a record over the last two years of 6-26. These numbers do count. Many a coach gets fired for that. Would you say Norv is a horrible coach..?...me too. I see no difference between the two. The most recent SD debacle is the most glaring example of a horrible coach getting out coached by a horrible coach.

Herm will not be missed by anyone except those who love to lose.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Your last point is finally something I can agree with. He is a mediocre coach. Not the horrible one people present him to be.

Hold the fuck on.

Mediocre?

Did you just call Herm Edwards mediocre?

I'd LOVE to know you're definition of the word mediocre.

Here's mine:

: of moderate quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so

I challenge to you find a person on this board, other than yourself, that thinks that a 54-72 record is ANYTHING resembling mediocre - so we can all point and laugh at them.

Herm is SO BAD, that a PERFECT regular season in 2009 STILL leaves him one game below .500.

There is nothing you can say to make a 54-72 record over 8 years acceptable as mediocre...

[BigChiefFan]

Hold the **** on.

Mediocre?

Did you just call Herm Edwards mediocre?

I'd LOVE to know you're definition of the word mediocre.

Here's mine:

: of moderate quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so

I challenge to you find a person on this board, other than yourself, that thinks that a 54-72 record is ANYTHING resembling mediocre - so we can all point and laugh at them.

Herm is SO BAD, that a PERFECT regular season in 2009 STILL leaves him one game below .500.

There is nothing you can say to make a 54-72 record over 8 years acceptable as mediocre...Even then, we aren't striving to be mediocre, which the Herm backers don't seem to comprehend.

[FringeNC]

The piece of shit doesn't even watch the Super Bowl. What competitive NFL head coach doesn't watch the biggest game in their sport?

And another odd thing about Herm: losses don't seem to bother the guy. Vermeil, Schottenheimer, and even Gun were visibly undone by losses. With Herm, not so much. And another thing: the night before the playoff loss with Indy, Herm was out eating dinner with Dungy and his wife. Herm just likes the idea of being part of the NFL fraternity of head coaches. I really don't think he is driven to win at all cost like just about every other head coach.

[Titty Meat]

Can we bump this since Pioli/Crennel should be fired?

Curious to see if the choices from 4 years ago will still be the same. DeCosta seems to be everyones #1 choice of GM.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Hooray for lackeys!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

Glad to see some vindication. Took some major abuse for saying Herm did some good things on the personnel side.

[aturnis]

Still love DeCosta, let him pick the coach...

[007]

Meh. Who gives a flying fuck anymore. I'm sick of this shit.

[milkman]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

As bad as things are, I'm glad mecca wasn't making the choice.

And ftr, KCJohnny's dumbassery in this thread was epic, as per usual.

[DJ's left nut]

Whaley and Spags, eh?

Eh, I'd still have preferred that to the shit sandwich we ended up with. I guess Spags is actually an idiot, but Whaley wouldn't have bombed two HC hires, IMO.

[ChiefMojo]

On record now... DeCosta and Billick

[Hammock Parties]

This guy might be a good hire.

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/staff/Rick-Mueller/b74bba79-1b95-41b2-bb6a-698f0e9615bd

http://i.imgur.com/RKedk.jpg

[Molitoth]

Honestly, I have no clue who would be a good GM candidate. I have not done anywhere near enough research to even spit a name out.

I've always believed the next most important hire are the coordinators. Predictable offensive playcalling is my worst nightmare. We need someone creative that will push the envelope and not try and live in the 80's. Brian Daboll has already proven that he sucks the big one. Personally I like Josh McDaniels as an OC. He is creative, young, and hungry and there is a reason Belichick brought him back on board. There is no way he leaves NE in a lateral move, and he's probably burned his bridge with most chiefs fans being associated with the Broncos.

For DC, we may as well stick with the 3-4 since we've made the move to it. From what I'm reading about the 1Gap system, I'd be willing to surely see that in action... so bring in whatever DC can implement that and has had some success doing it.

Out of the "big 4" that everyone talks about, I would have to choose Gruden. He's advertised as a QB guru and he's still young. I'm not a Cowher fan at all.

[ChiefsCountry]

GM - Eric DeCosta
Head Coach - Jim Schwartz (they worked together in Baltimore)

I like Schwartz bc he worked in Cleveland, Baltimore, and Tennessee. He was a position coach in Baltimore at linebacker when Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware were rookies. Moved Tennessee helped get them to the Super Bowl. Got promoted to Defensive Coordinator and helped the development of Haynesworth and Bulluck.

Schwartz hasn't set the world on but I still think with him and DeCosta would have made a pretty damn good team.

[Titty Meat]

The 09' class of coaches sucked. I'm not too sure about 2013's either.

[Saccopoo]

Marc Ross for GM.

Last time I checked, the Giants have drafted pretty good and have a couple Super Bowl rings while he's been their Director of Scouting.

He also holds a bachelors and masters from two Ivy league schools (Princeton and Penn, respectively), and played the game at a high level in college as a wide receiver. (Still holds numerous Princeton receiving records.)

He's young at 39, but has put in his time.

If you want to keep the 34 intact on the defensive side, how about hiring Kirby Smart from Alabama? I've heard that they have been okay defensively the past couple of years.

[Titty Meat]

Marc Ross for GM.

Last time I checked, the Giants have drafted pretty good and have a couple Super Bowl rings while he's been their Director of Scouting.

He also holds a bachelors and masters from two Ivy league schools (Princeton and Penn, respectively), and played the game at a high level in college as a wide receiver. (Still holds numerous Princeton receiving records.)

He's young at 39, but has put in his time.

If you want to keep the 34 intact on the defensive side, how about hiring Kirby Smart from Alabama? I've heard that they have been okay defensively the past couple of years.

No thanks on hiring college coaches. I would love Marc Ross as GM, Mike Mccoy HC, and Todd Bowles as DC. You keep the 34 intact, Bowles is one of the best secondary coaches in the league and was 2-1 as the interim head coach in Miami.

[RunKC]

Why not Brian Billick? The guy has a good record as a coach and has proven to be able to coach up a talented team. He wants to come here too.

We need a veteran head coach who has proven success, not a rookie. This team doesn't have time to develop a head coach.

[Hammock Parties]

Hiring Brian Billick is spitting in the face of history that says no coach has won a SB with two teams.

[Easy 6]

I'm not sure who i want yet, the only thing i'm 100% sure of is that we desperately need a brand new regime, everyone needs to go, time for a fire sale.

Have deep doubts about Clark actually doing it, but i can always hope... done right, it wouldnt take too long to get this thing back on track.

It cant go on like this, reach down, grab a pair & hit the reset button Clark, we're counting on you.

[RunKC]

Hiring Brian Billick is spitting in the face of history that says no coach has won a SB with two teams.

That just means we'll be making histoorrrrryyyyy. I'm in!

http://ashcan.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/empire-2.jpg

[BryanBusby]

Marc Ross for GM.

Last time I checked, the Giants have drafted pretty good and have a couple Super Bowl rings while he's been their Director of Scouting.

He also holds a bachelors and masters from two Ivy league schools (Princeton and Penn, respectively), and played the game at a high level in college as a wide receiver. (Still holds numerous Princeton receiving records.)

He's young at 39, but has put in his time.

If you want to keep the 34 intact on the defensive side, how about hiring Kirby Smart from Alabama? I've heard that they have been okay defensively the past couple of years.
Marc Ross is the best selection for GM. DeCosta isn't going to leave Baltimore folks.

Zimmer would be a much better selection than Smart. While the Bengals run a 4-3, he has experience with a 3-4.

[ChiefsCountry]

How many of you haven't realized this thread is from 2008?

[Easy 6]

How many of you haven't realized this thread is from 2008?

We sucked then, we suck now.

Some things just never change.

[007]

How many of you haven't realized this thread is from 2008?

I noticed it and thought it was a perfect bump because NOTHING has changed.

[Titty Meat]

How many of you haven't realized this thread is from 2008?

That's why I bumped it. Gives people something to compare to from 4 years ago.

[Ebolapox]

NO soup for you.

yeah--it's all about filling One Arrowhead Drive on sundays. it's not about the wins/losses, is it? it's not about playoff wins, isn't it?

this is exactly what's wrong with this goddamned fanbase. it's all fanboys who don't give a shit whether we win or lose, it's about the 'arrowhead mystique'--look: the arrowhead mystique is ****ing dead. it's been dead for a few years now. it died with marty, methinks, and got revived for about five minutes with dick-head-coach-vermiel. it's gone. do we need to have a funeral for it so you dumbasses can mourn? I'll give you three minutes to weep silently before we get back on topic.

so, back. it's dead. deal with it. the REST of the nfl (save a few other bottom dwellers) have moved on--homefield advantage means precious little these days. you know that matters? WINS IN THE PLAYOFFS. if you WIN, more people will SHOW UP. it's a simple equation:

W(2P+R)=A

wins (playoff[which gets a multiplier because they're SO IMPORTANT] + regular season) equals attendence.

yeah. let's stay with the status quo. it may have worked in 1993, but NEWS FLASH: we don't have joe montana to rescue us. we have to DEVELOP a team from scratch--you don't get a PLAYOFF WINNING TEAM with your lineup. you get status quo.

and I, for one am SICK TO ****ING DEATH of status quo in relation to the chiefs. and it seems that clark hunt is too. status quo was carl delano peterson. status quo would be marty ****ing schottenheimer. status quo is keeping a defensive coordinator who hasn't coordinated SHIT since coming back.

you want status quo? fine. go join a ****ing elk's lodge and knock em' back and think of yesteryear with the rest of the outdated morons. let the rest of us contemplate a future with MAYBE a super bowl victory before we die. I wasn't even THOUGHT OF when the chiefs won the 'ship in 1970. ****, my dad was only thirteen years old. maybe YOU were alive, but a lot of us weren't. thus, we could give a shit less about status quo.

now, take hamas' advice. kindly go ****ING KILL YOURSELF

jesus christ. I rip rhymes, and my rhymes rip. that is how dy-lan spits.

[Ebolapox]

here, disagree with this:

last playoff win: 1993

that's fifteen years. I'm 25 years old. I was ten years old the last playoff win--****, aren't you younger than me? I can't recall. doesn't matter.

I'll be the first person to be optimistic if THERE'S ANYTHING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT. have you WATCHED the chiefs lately? we're HORRIBLE.

it has nothing to do with being a 'negative nancy.' it has EVERYTHING to do with people holding onto the adages of a by-gone era. and it's gone. if you want to have positive hopes, PLEASE have a REASON to have positive hopes.

I remember a very specific time when I was younger that my dad was like this--and I didn't understand it then, but I do perfectly now.

the chiefs were playing the giants in the meadowlands. we were down big in the second quarter. he left the room in disgust and went to go mow the lawn. before he left, though, we had an argument. I pounded my fists like the preteen douche I was and said 'the chiefs can win! they can come back!' completely optimistic that the chiefs could overcome all odds and win a meaningless game.

my dad was realistic--he said 'there's no way' and went about his day

I'm like that these days. SOME of you still believe. it's like believing in santa claus--he's still coming for some of you. the rest of us in realism land have no delusions about this team.

I remember crying my eyes out after the 1995 playoff loss to the colts. I remember going on my first cussing tirade after the 1997 playoff loss to the broncos.

I, for one, and SICK TO ****ING DEATH of putting up with 'not quite good enough'--it's ALL this ****ing organization feeds to us. if you want to be spoon-fed bullshit? that's fine with me. I'm all for putting their ****ing heads under the guillotine and MAYBE building a team that's in it for the long haul.

hmmmmm... four years of pioli has only made this worse. I'm not sure if clark hunt REALLY knows how close this fanbase is teetering on the edge. FUCK.

[chiefzilla1501]

From a head coaching standpoint... I still think one of the more underrated candidates out there is Gus Bradley from Seattle. This guy is one hell of a coach and I can see him also being a good, tough motivator.

[Easy 6]

From a head coaching standpoint... I still think one of the more underrated candidates out there is Gus Bradley from Seattle. This guy is one hell of a coach and I can see him also being a good, tough motivator.

If he can recreate what they're doing, come on down Gus!