Chiefs 3-4 Defense [Archive]

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 06:35 AM

Throughout all the draft, trade, and free agency threads there seem to be two recurring themes:

1) We will be running the 3-4 defense next year. Hence discussions like "Why aren't we targeting X, who would be perfect for the 3-4 defense."

2) We don't currently have any players on the team that fit a 3-4 defense. Some claim we are going to have to throw away all our d-linemen and hope we can somehow fit DJ in somewhere, but maybe trade him for a 5th.

Both of these can't be right. Either we have players that will fit and we will go that way, or our players don't fit that scheme and we won't go that way.

If both of these are right, this implies...

3) Our coaches are either idiots or completely unflexible, which I don't believe.

Why a new thread? Not to discuss #2. Don't want to see players names.

But, WHY is there a belief that we are going to 3-4? I haven't heard this at all, and I think I've been listening.

kstater

03-01-2009, 06:40 AM

But, WHY is there a belief that we are going to 3-4? I haven't heard this at all, and I think I've been listening.

Most of the coaches come from a 3-4. Don't know if you watched any football last year, but we don't have the players to run either a 3-4 or a 4-3. Including Vrable in the trade all but locks up a switch. Probably go hybrid this year, and as the players come in over the next couple years, switch to it full time.

CupidStunt

03-01-2009, 07:07 AM

Three reasons why: (1) Pioli; (2) traded for Vrabel, a prototype rush LB; and (3) Adam Schefter, sometimes right and sometimes wrong, said so.

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 07:13 AM

Don't know if you watched any football last year, but we don't have the players to run either a 3-4 or a 4-3.

I laugh every time I read this actually. Certainly a bit true.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 07:28 AM

Mike Vrabel being traded for pretty much says we are going to be moving to a 3-4...

Pioli Zombie

03-01-2009, 07:50 AM

I love it when people say "but our talent is 4-3 they should scheme to the talent"

THE TALENT SUCKS!!!!!

Don't do things based on past personnel mistakes. Stop the runaway train now and from this day forward do things right. Even if you have to scrap yesterdays errors.

If you have deadwood. Clear them out. Even if they were high picks. Get people in who can and want to play the correct way.

Knowing how the Patriots did things from the moment Belichick and Pioli arrived it wouldnt surprise me if Gonzales, LJ, and Waters were all gone by training camp. There are no stars. Even Brady is the ultimate its not about me guy on that team. Most of the league does not get this.

Anyway sorry for the rant but the Chiefs will do now what is good for the Chiefs, not what works for any one player.
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Mecca

03-01-2009, 07:51 AM

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 07:55 AM

I love it when people say "but our talent is 4-3 they should scheme to the talent"

Well, the coaches did say they would look at the players they had and then decide the scheme based on that.

And I always love it when people think there is absolutely no talent on this team at all. Pessimistic and overreacting much?

Mecca

03-01-2009, 07:56 AM

Well, the coaches did say they would look at the players they had and then decide the scheme based on that.

That's a nice line to use but coaches always go with the schemes they feel comfortable with and we have a ton of people who are from the 3-4 and when you take over a 2-14 team their reaction is like "psh there is no talent"

As far as the front 7 goes we are pretty close to having no talent.

Pioli Zombie

03-01-2009, 08:04 AM

I'm having flashbacks to 2000 when the Patriots had a star system. Bledsoe, Terry Glenn, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law,Ted Johnson,Willie McGinest. These guys were in the papers all the time we read about their parties at nightclubs. They were stars don't you know and there wasn't a microphone they didn't like. Belichick ended all that. You produce and shut up or you are gone. Glenn was the first to keep testing it. He was benched during a Super Bowl run. Then Bledsoe pouted to the press and in meetings while the Patriots won a Super Bowl. Sure the myth is how
Bledsoe was so great handling everything. Read any book about the Patriots. The guy wouldn't even go to the parade after. He was gone. Then Milloy. Then Law. McGinest was the one who got it and revitilized his career under Belichick.

Gonzo and LJ better get it fast. Its not just what you do on the field its also your mentality. they don't collect talent. They put together the best 53 man TEAM.
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ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 08:06 AM

As far as the front 7 goes we are pretty close to having no talent.

Two first rounders, one second rounder, and one third rounder disagree with you, none of which were considered major reaches at the time.

Falls to coaching and schemeing, or lack there of.

I just think we may all be getting a bit hasty in proclaiming we are going to any particular defense when the coaches haven't even taken the field with these players once and haven't declared anything either.

Taking an over-the-hill LB to act as a leader doesn't dictate the defense anymore than a top 5 pick last year dictates the defense.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:08 AM

Two first rounders, one second rounder, and one third rounder disagree with you, none of which were considered major reaches at the time.

Falls to coaching and schemeing, or lack there of.

I just think we may all be getting a bit hasty in proclaiming we are going to any particular defense when the coaches haven't even taken the field with these players once and haven't declared anything either.

Taking an over-the-hill LB to act as a leader doesn't dictate the defense anymore than a top 5 pick last year dictates the defense.

That top 5 pick was taken by the last regime...new regimes don't care about what the past one did, it's true just look around.

They can be high picks all they want, they'll be shuffled out if they don't fit scheme or attitude wise. If you're counting Hali he literally has no spot in a 3-4 so we're about to wave bye to him.

They'll get their chances to show what they can do but none of them are going to be held onto because they were high picks.

Will

03-01-2009, 08:34 AM

Most of the coaches come from a 3-4. Don't know if you watched any football last year, but we don't have the players to run either a 3-4 or a 4-3. Including Vrable in the trade all but locks up a switch. Probably go hybrid this year, and as the players come in over the next couple years, switch to it full time.

I disagree that we don't have the talent to run a 4-3. Almost our entire defense is very young with many of them just now getting used to the speed and physicality of the NFL game. Now they may not be the most talented guys in the NFL but they still could be very good. I would dare to say that if they would have had some coaching in the last couple of years that was worth a damn then they would have probably been much better.

el borracho

03-01-2009, 08:35 AM

I literally can't believe people care what happens to Tamba Hali. Just cannot believe it.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:35 AM

I disagree that we don't have the talent to run a 4-3. Almost our entire defense is very young with many of them just now getting used to the speed and physicality of the NFL game. Now they may not be the most talented guys in the NFL but they still could be very good. I would dare to say that if they would have had some coaching in the last couple of years that was worth a damn then they would have probably been much better.

Would you like to inform me who these players are, we don't have an end worth a damn...

bdeg

03-01-2009, 08:36 AM

Good stuff zombie.

Anyway, like Mecca said the area on our team most lacking is definitely the front 7, although OL is a close second.

But I think this could save DJ and Turk's careers, I'm not sure how Tank and Dorsey will do. Makes you wish we had held onto Eric Walden from last year doesn't it?

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:36 AM

I literally can't believe people care what happens to Tamba Hali. Just cannot believe it.

Guys like Derrick Johnson and Hali have had more than enough time to show what they are.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 08:41 AM

Guys like Derrick Johnson and Hali have had more than enough time to show what they are.

They also had more than enough coaches to fuck them up from day 1.

Or are you really disappointed that Hali sucked playing at Jarred Allen's position? A position Hali had never played before.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 08:42 AM

That top 5 pick was taken by the last regime...new regimes don't care about what the past one did, it's true just look around.

They can be high picks all they want, they'll be shuffled out if they don't fit scheme or attitude wise. If you're counting Hali he literally has no spot in a 3-4 so we're about to wave bye to him.

They'll get their chances to show what they can do but none of them are going to be held onto because they were high picks.
Exactly. I don't know why people are so worried about Dorsey. What as he done for us so far? Does he have potential? Sure, but as was said, "20 guys off the street can win 2 games."

unlurking

03-01-2009, 08:43 AM

petegz28

03-01-2009, 08:45 AM

And you can't "unscramble" an egg. Why should the new coached have to fix broken players. Let them just get new ones.

I don't think DJ is broken...Hali has shown he can disrupt in the backfiled if there is pressure on the other side. Funny we got more pressure last year, if you can say that, AFTER Hali was put back to his regular position.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:45 AM

They also had more than enough coaches to fuck them up from day 1.

Or are you really disappointed that Hali sucked playing at Jarred Allen's position? A position Hali had never played before.

That's great and all but in a 3-4 Tamba Hali is to small to be a DE and to slug like to ever think of being a OLB...he's not really good at anything. He's shitty against the run and he's not a great pass rusher what the hell is he?

Derrick Johnson is naturally talented he's just soft and passive I don't know if you will ever change a guys demeanor he'll likely get a season to see if the new regime thinks anything of him Hali I'm not sure sure because he just doesn't fit.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:46 AM

I don't think DJ is broken...Hali has shown he can disrupt in the backfiled if there is pressure on the other side. Funyn we got more pressure last year, if you can say that, AFTER Hali was put back to his regular position.

You know in the 3-4 which we are obviously going to be moving to, Hali has no position right?

petegz28

03-01-2009, 08:57 AM

You know in the 3-4 which we are obviously going to be moving to, Hali has no position right?

That is nto relevant to the point. He said he was broken, he isn't. Neither is DJ. Whethter or not they can play a 3-4 is not what I was commenting on.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 08:58 AM

That is nto relevant to the point. He said he was broken, he isn't. Neither is DJ. Whethter or not they can play a 3-4 is not what I was commenting on.

Oh well um that's going to be rather important...

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:01 AM

Oh well um that's going to be rather important...

Dude, I am sorry you are butthurt over all this. But Hali and DJ are not broken players. They may or may not fit into our new scheme, but that does not make them "broken".

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:02 AM

Dude, I am sorry you are butthurt over all this. But Hali and DJ are not broken players. They may or may not fit into our new scheme, but that does not make them "broken".

Did I say they were broken?

After 3 and 4 years 95% of players are what they're gonna be that's just a fact.

I was talking about Hali had no position on a 3-4 team since you know this thread is about the 3-4.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Did I say they were broken?

After 3 and 4 years 95% of players are what they're gonna be that's just a fact.

I was talking about Hali had no position on a 3-4 team since you know this thread is about the 3-4.

Well you keep trying to combine the two arguments. Prehaps you should pay more attention to the post(s) I was replying to instead of going off about something I was not even talking about?

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:05 AM

Ok so what's the point of defending Hali if he has no position on the team anymore?

ncCHIEFfan

03-01-2009, 09:16 AM

I just wounder if we could get anything for Hali? I doubt it but I am sure PaPa Pioli and team are trying to find some buyers

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:16 AM

Well you keep trying to combine the two arguments. Prehaps you should pay more attention to the post(s) I was replying to instead of going off about something I was not even talking about?
Dude, YOU are the one saying that they have had shitty coaching for years!!!

That shit doesn't just turn around in one night! It takes time to UNLEARN bad techniques and learn them the right way. I'm not saying they are broken as in beyond repair, but they will take more work than another player who WASN'T coached the wrong way.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Ok so what's the point of defending Hali if he has no position on the team anymore?

Mecca, if you read the post I was replying too, you would not be asking this question.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:18 AM

I just wounder if we could get anything for Hali? I doubt it but I am sure PaPa Pioli and team are trying to find some buyers

You might be able to get a 5 from someone who has really bad ends and plays 4-3.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:18 AM

Dude, YOU are the one saying that they have had shitty coaching for years!!!

That shit doesn't just turn around in one night! It takes time to UNLEARN bad techniques and learn them the right way. I'm not saying they are broken as in beyond repair, but they will take more work than another player who WASN'T coached the wrong way.

Yea, you did say that and now you are chaning your tune. And you do not know what it will take. Neither do I.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Yea, you did say that and now you are chaning your tune. And you do not know what it will take. Neither do I.
Look idiot, just because you can't see the "scrambled brains" and constantly training bad techniques reference does not mean I'm changing my tune. The players are BROKEN. Can they be fixed? Maybe. Should we saddle the new regime with the task of doing this? Fuck no.

YOU are the one that said they have received bad coaching their ENTIRE pro career. If you think there won't be extra work involved to get past that, I got a great bridge for ya.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:26 AM

Look idiot, just because you can't see the "scrambled brains" and constantly training bad techniques reference does not mean I'm changing my tune. The players are BROKEN. Can they be fixed? Maybe. Should we saddle the new regime with the task of doing this? **** no.

YOU are the one that said they have received bad coaching their ENTIRE pro career. If you think there won't be extra work involved to get past that, I got a great bridge for ya.

Damn, no need to call names there, guy. I will let you get back to your armchair coaching and use of CAPS.....ROFL

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 09:27 AM

I literally can't believe people care what happens to Tamba Hali. Just cannot believe it.

Who cares what happens to Hali?

Exactly. I don't know why people are so worried about Dorsey. What as he done for us so far? Does he have potential? Sure, but as was said, "20 guys off the street can win 2 games."

Who cares what happens to Dorsey?

The point is there may actually be talent on the team for a 4-3, that has been coached to shit. Maybe they can be salvaged. The whole league pretty much thought they were talented and athletic coming out of college. Did it suddently disappear? No.

Talent and athleticism like Dorsey does not come along every day.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:28 AM

Who cares what happens to him?

There's probably a few people that are still holding onto that last strand of hope.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:29 AM

Damn, no need to call names there, guy. I will let you get back to your armchair coaching and use of CAPS.....ROFL
Wow, claim "changing tune" then just walk away because you know you're wrong. Thanks internet tough guy.

(Goes to research the more ghey technique for showing emphasis, standard literary techniques such as font format or ghey laughing cartoons. Hello pot.)

Blindside58

03-01-2009, 09:30 AM

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:31 AM

I'm making my call now!
1. We will switch to a 3-4
2. To the amazement of most fans, alot of our players will work in a 3-4 Hali, Mcbride and Pollard as LB's with Vrabel and DJ.
3. Tank Tyler will be our Nose tackle with Dorsey and Boone on the ends.. I would love to get Ziggy Hood as well.
4. Cassell will renogotiate a longer contract (from another thread)
5. We will pick up or trade for at least (2) more veteran wideouts (Furrey and someone like Gaffney)
6. We will drop down in the draft. Even if it means we lose value. (The Patriots hated paying rookies big money)

Dude Turk McBride weighs 280lbs he's one of the guys that can actually play end in a 3-4..

If you put Hali and Pollard at LB one guy is way to slow and the other one is way to small..

Did you just type that up without thinking?

Blindside58

03-01-2009, 09:32 AM

Dude Turk McBride weighs 280lbs he's one of the guys that can actually play end in a 3-4..

If you put Hali and Pollard at LB one guy is way to slow and the other one is way to small..

Did you just type that up without thinking?

Yes!

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 09:32 AM

I'm making my call now!
1. We will switch to a 3-4
2. To the amazement of most fans, alot of our players will work in a 3-4 Hali, Mcbride and Pollard as LB's with Vrabel and DJ.
3. Tank Tyler will be our Nose tackle with Dorsey and Boone on the ends.. I would love to get Ziggy Hood as well.

I'm willing to accept this. I'm not willing to believe we will switch to a 3-4 even though we only have one over-the-hill player that fits the scheme.

EDIT: Okay, I didn't read what you wrote well enough, I'm not accepting Hali and McBride as linebackers (obviously). Point still stands. I don't think we switch to 3-4 and throw away all our players.

Either we have some players who fit and we will consider the scheme, or we don't have any and we won't consider it.

God, you all seem to think our coaches are stubborn as hell, trying to force some scheme or another on our defense. I doubt that personally.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:33 AM

Alphonso Boone can play end in a 3-4 so that's 2!

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:34 AM

Wow, claim "changing tune" then just walk away because you know you're wrong. Thanks internet tough guy.

(Goes to research the more ghey technique for showing emphasis, standard literary techniques such as font format or ghey laughing cartoons. Hello pot.)

Right...if you say so....go research how much of a dick you are....:D See, I can call names too.

You said they were broken, I said they had shit coaching, then you changed your tune.....so.. a polite, sunnyi cold-Sunday, GFY..:D

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 09:38 AM

Alphonso Boone can play end in a 3-4 so that's 2!

Whose the first? I think McBride could play end, and don't really think Tank has no place either. Dorsey could probably play end, even though he is shorter. He showed himself to be very athletic in college.

I have no idea on the linebackers, but we basically only have one linebacker worth his weight in anything other than feces and that's DJ. And did he suddenly lose his ability to rush the QB?

Anyway, I'm not arguing whether we will or won't, I just think its crazy that in one breath people say we are switching (or assume we already have) and then say we have no players to fit the scheme.

Glad to see you losening up a bit and letting Boone in.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:38 AM

Right...if you say so....go research how much of a dick you are....:D See, I can call names too.

You said they were broken, I said they had shit coaching, then you changed your tune.....so.. a polite, sunnyi cold-Sunday, GFY..:D
So what does bad coaching mean to you? Something that can be overcome during the drive in to work? Are you really this naive? Have you never practiced ANYTHING in your life?

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:39 AM

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:40 AM

So what does bad coaching mean to you? Something that can be overcome during the drive in to work? Are you really this naive? Have you never practiced ANYTHING in your life?

Yes, I have....can you use CAPS anymore? You know everything. I am sure you know DJ and Hali personally too, don't ya?

STFU

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:41 AM

ChiefGator

03-01-2009, 09:43 AM

I'd agree. Everything Pioli has done so far with coaching personnel and Vrabel screams 3-4. I think we can pretty much count on it.

I guess we'll know after the draft for sure, if noone says anything before (any why would they I guess).

Hopefully our new DC Romeo will talk about it after the draft.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:44 AM

Yes, I have....can you use CAPS anymore? You know everything. I am sure you know DJ and Hali personally too, don't ya?

STFU
Of course not. All I'm saying is that it is unreasonable to force a player, coach, or scheme form a failed organization onto a new GM. (Just for you I used a different emphasis technique. Hope you like it!) If the current regime doesn't want to retain DJ or Dorsey (who I can at least somewhat understand as a concern as opposed to Hali), then they shouldn't have to because some message board fan thinks they ought to.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:44 AM

I guess we'll know after the draft for sure, if noone says anything before (any why would they I guess).

Hopefully our new DC Romeo will talk about it after the draft.

If Crennel comes here we are a lock to be a 3-4 team...

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:45 AM

I guess we'll know after the draft for sure, if noone says anything before (any why would they I guess).

Hopefully our new DC Romeo will talk about it after the draft.
I'm kind of hoping we make more moves in FA, we've got many holes to fill. This should tell us well before the draft the primary scheme.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:47 AM

Of course not. All I'm saying is that it is unreasonable to force a player, coach, or scheme form a failed organization onto a new GM. (Just for you I used a different emphasis technique. Hope you like it!) If the current regime doesn't want to retain DJ or Dorsey (who I can at least somewhat understand as a concern as opposed to Hali), then they shouldn't have to because some message board fan thinks they ought to.

Adn no where did I ever say they should be forced. :rolleyes: Calm down, kitten.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:47 AM

I'm kind of hoping we make more moves in FA, we've got many holes to fill. This should tell us well before the draft the primary scheme.

I like Chris Canty but we'd have to pay him alot...there's always Kevin Burnett he'd be a serious upgrade over what we have at LB.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 09:48 AM

If Crennel comes here we are a lock to be a 3-4 team...

No matter what we are, it will be hard to suck as much as we did last year.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:53 AM

Adn no where did I ever say they should be forced. :rolleyes: Calm down, kitten.
Holy crap, you about had a cow replying to Mecca, flip out because someone used the term "broken" (see what I did there? did 'ya? did 'ya?), then you tell me (look! look!) to calm down?!

Had your Riddlin yet this morning?

unlurking

03-01-2009, 09:55 AM

No matter what we are, it will be hard to suck as much as we did last year.
Not if we keep Hali.

:Poke:

(Couldn't resist, so sue me.)

chiefzilla1501

03-01-2009, 09:57 AM

I think it's pretty obvious we're going to be a 3-4 team if we don't get enough players we'll be some weird hybrid for a year but I don't think there's any doubt we're gonna end up 3-4.

Jay Ratliff plays NT down in Dallas and he's not exactly big so who really knows.

It happens, but it's rare. Kelly Gregg is the same way--he's only 315 lbs. Here's an interesting article I found:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_42_228/ai_n6249316/pg_2?tag=content;col1
Read up on page 2 about Kelly Gregg. Interesting stuff.

You don't have to be huge to play NT, but you have to be able to play 2-gap and usually it helps to be heavy, because it makes you almost immovable. If you're 330 lbs and strong as an ox, it's difficult for you to lose in the game of leverage.

Mecca

03-01-2009, 09:57 AM

Not if we keep Hali.

:Poke:

(Couldn't resist, so sue me.)

I probably dislike Hali more than most.....

I wanted Cromartie that year :sulk:

petegz28

03-01-2009, 10:01 AM

Holy crap, you about had a cow replying to Mecca, flip out because someone used the term "broken" (see what I did there? did 'ya? did 'ya?), then you tell me (look! look!) to calm down?!

Had your Riddlin yet this morning?

I wasn't the one who started calling people names and YELLING cause they didn't agree with me.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 10:01 AM

I probably dislike Hali more than most.....

I wanted Cromartie that year :sulk:

I would of rather had Cromartie as well...but I didn't think Hali was a bad choice at the time, maybe a little too high of a pick though

unlurking

03-01-2009, 10:09 AM

I wasn't the one who started calling people names and YELLING cause they didn't agree with me.

You blasted Mecca for not paying attention to your posts, calling him "butthurt."

No, I have honestly no idea where I ever came up with the idea you were a petulant child. (This is called sarcasm by the way.)

Is it really name calling if I honestly think you are an idiot, and am not just trying to offend you? To me, it falls more in line with the term "categorizing."

Oh, and another thing, it is called "inflection". THIS IS CALLED YELLING.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 10:11 AM

I probably dislike Hali more than most.....

I wanted Cromartie that year :sulk:
I actually liked the pick based on need. Unfortunately it seems like the need along the D-Line has been great for many years, with Allen being our only bright spot. Thanks Carl.

chiefzilla1501

03-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Whose the first? I think McBride could play end, and don't really think Tank has no place either. Dorsey could probably play end, even though he is shorter. He showed himself to be very athletic in college.

I have no idea on the linebackers, but we basically only have one linebacker worth his weight in anything other than feces and that's DJ. And did he suddenly lose his ability to rush the QB?

Anyway, I'm not arguing whether we will or won't, I just think its crazy that in one breath people say we are switching (or assume we already have) and then say we have no players to fit the scheme.

Glad to see you losening up a bit and letting Boone in.

I've always thought that Turk would make an outstanding DE in a 3-4--he was built for that defense. He's got the right measurables and he's a tough, physical DE who can really move his blockers, but he's not quick enough to be that effective in the pass rush--that's exactly what you want out of a 3-4 DE.

I think Tank could actually be solid in a 3-4 too. Maybe he could be a decent DE or maybe a backup NT--I would be concerned as of right now about him being an every down NT because I don't think he has the stamina to do it. Dorsey is a bit of a wild card because I think he could do fine. The knock is that he's short and, yes, he no longer becomes the guy worth a top 5 pick in that role.

From the LBs side, keep in mind that the interior line doesn't have to be nearly as athletically gifted as you would need to be in a 4-3. Wade Philips once commented that one of the major reasons you run a 3-4 is because good 3-4 LBs are so easy to find. DJ will fit in great as an ILB in a 3-4 and Demorrio Williams is actually very good depth behind DJ--both are quick and outstanding in coverage, and you need one on the interior who can be more of the coverage guy. The other guy has to be a run-stuffing ILB and it almost makes me wonder if we should make an aggressive trade-down play for Maualuga, because I think he could actually be a beast in that role. On the other hand, we need a rush end on both sides. Again, those are real easy to find and maybe we start making a play for Peppers or Suggs--Peppers really wants to play in a 3-4 and he would be exceptional at it. By the way, Hali would NOT fit into a 3-4 because he doesn't have the coverage ability to act as a LB--these guys are usually DE/LB tweeners.

Those are options but in reality, our major problem is with the LBs and at nose tackle, and LBs in a 3-4 are really, really easy to find. It seems that our primary needs on defense are: 1) nose tackle; 2) DE/LB rush end; 3) Run-stuffing ILB

QuikSsurfer

03-01-2009, 10:16 AM

I stopped reading after someone posted Pollard playing LB for the chiefs.

A biento, Hali.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 10:21 AM

You blasted Mecca for not paying attention to your posts, calling him "butthurt."

No, I have honestly no idea where I ever came up with the idea you were a petulant child. (This is called sarcasm by the way.)

Is it really name calling if I honestly think you are an idiot, and am not just trying to offend you? To me, it falls more in line with the term "categorizing."

Oh, and another thing, it is called "inflection". THIS IS CALLED YELLING.

Mecca is capable of talking for himself. Trust me. Don't start using him as an excuse four your bullshit.

unlurking

03-01-2009, 10:35 AM

I never once said I was defending Mecca. I said I was responding the way I would to any abrasive idiot (categorization). You were acting like a jerk in public, regardless of who it was directed at, and thus I treated you like a jerk.

It's not that hard to figure out. Simple social skills are all that are needed.

bdeg

03-01-2009, 10:39 AM

I've always thought that Turk would make an outstanding DE in a 3-4--he was built for that defense. He's got the right measurables and he's a tough, physical DE who can really move his blockers, but he's not quick enough to be that effective in the pass rush--that's exactly what you want out of a 3-4 DE.

I think Tank could actually be solid in a 3-4 too. Maybe he could be a decent DE or maybe a backup NT--I would be concerned as of right now about him being an every down NT because I don't think he has the stamina to do it. Dorsey is a bit of a wild card because I think he could do fine. The knock is that he's short and, yes, he no longer becomes the guy worth a top 5 pick in that role.

From the LBs side, keep in mind that the interior line doesn't have to be nearly as athletically gifted as you would need to be in a 4-3. Wade Philips once commented that one of the major reasons you run a 3-4 is because good 3-4 LBs are so easy to find. DJ will fit in great as an ILB in a 3-4 and Demorrio Williams is actually very good depth behind DJ--both are quick and outstanding in coverage, and you need one on the interior who can be more of the coverage guy. The other guy has to be a run-stuffing ILB and it almost makes me wonder if we should make an aggressive trade-down play for Maualuga, because I think he could actually be a beast in that role. On the other hand, we need a rush end on both sides. Again, those are real easy to find and maybe we start making a play for Peppers or Suggs--Peppers really wants to play in a 3-4 and he would be exceptional at it. By the way, Hali would NOT fit into a 3-4 because he doesn't have the coverage ability to act as a LB--these guys are usually DE/LB tweeners.

Those are options but in reality, our major problem is with the LBs and at nose tackle, and LBs in a 3-4 are really, really easy to find. It seems that our primary needs on defense are: 1) nose tackle; 2) DE/LB rush end; 3) Run-stuffing ILB

Totally agree, although Hali isn't good enough in coverage he's not quick enough to rush either.

petegz28

03-01-2009, 10:41 AM

bowener

03-01-2009, 06:48 PM

I want to know from the guys here who are wiser than I, do you see the Chiefs running a 34 D with Vrabel at the LOS or on the LOS with his hand in the dirt?

I think on Madden it is referred to as "34 Stack". Basically, it is a 43 with one of the OLB's playing the DE, and the other 3 shift over the top of the line as they typically line up in the 43. It would give us more versatility with the players we have now as it seems we could keep most of them where they are, and other than Vrabel, the DL would be expected to stop the run and take up blockers (basically all they could do last year, except stopping the run). Vrabel is a pretty big guy at 6'4" and 260 lbs, so I can see him plausibly playing as a "DE" in certain situations, or lining up there and then dropping back in some coverage to confuse the opposing QB.

Let me know how this typically would work.