AP: Self Big 12 coach of the year

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Another reason for MU to hate us.

:thumb:

Now go get the national one Billy boy.

Hope its a repizzle.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/wire/chi-ap-bkc-apall-big12,0,2622796.story

Griffin, Collins, Self head AP All-Big 12 awards
By DOUG TUCKER | AP Sports Writer
1:43 PM CDT, March 8, 2009
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Blake Griffin, Oklahoma's record-smashing sophomore, is a unanimous choice for the Associated Press Big 12 player of the year for 2008-09.

Bill Self of Kansas, who lost every starter from last year's NCAA championship team but still molded the young Jayhawks into regular-season champions, outpolled Missouri's Mike Anderson for Big 12 coach of the year.

A panel of 18 sports writers and sportscasters who regularly cover the conference also named Denis Clemente of Kansas State the Big 12's newcomer of the year and Oklahoma guard Willie Warren freshman of the year.

Griffin and Kansas guard Sherron Collins were unanimous picks for the AP's first team. Joining them on the first unit were DeMarre Carroll of Missouri, Craig Brackins of Iowa State and Cole Aldrich of Kansas.



Behind Griffin, the Sooners finished the regular season 27-4 overall and matched their best conference record ever at 13-3. Two of the conference losses came while Griffin was out at least part of the game. On Saturday against Oklahoma State, the 6-foot-10 sophomore had 33 points and 14 rebounds and set the Big 12 season record with 425 rebounds. It was his school-record 25th double-double.

"Blake Griffin, I just told my staff, may be the best player I've ever gone against as a player or a coach," said Oklahoma State coach Travis Ford.

Griffin goes into the postseason averaging 22.1 points and 14.2 rebounds.

"He plays above the rim as well as anybody I've seen in a long time," said Texas coach Rick Barnes. "He's got great hands, great strength in his hands. Around the rim, he's got great touch."

Nobody expected Kansas to be much better than fourth. The Jayhawks had lost almost every significant contributor off last year's NCAA championship run, including more than 80 percent of their scoring. But with Collins and Aldrich providing a devastating inside-out punch and a bevy of young role players coming into their own, Self guided them to their fifth conference title in a row, and their ninth in the Big 12's 13 season.

Anderson's job at Missouri was not to be overlooked, either. The Tigers' 25 wins overall were the second-most in a regular season in school history. Their 18-0 home mark was the best ever, as was their 12 Big 12 wins.

Anderson got six votes from the media panel and Self drew 12.

"I thought his job last year was as good as anybody in the country," Nebraska coach Doc Sadler said of Self. "Is he the best coach in the country? I don't know. But I can tell you this: When you talk about one of the best coaches in the country at any level, college or pro, his name is going to be mentioned."

Warren, a 6-4 freshman, was a unanimous selection for the league's top freshman, while Clemente, a lightning-quick 6-1 native of Puerto Rico, drew every vote but one for newcomer honors. Clemente had 20 double-figure scoring games for Kansas State and tied the Big 12 record with a 44-point outburst against Texas.

"There's no question Denis Clemente is the quickest player in this league," said Self.

While Warren may have been overshadowed by the monstrous year his famous teammate put together, his contributions were not overlooked by those who know the team best.

"He's been really good for us all year, and we anticipate him being really good the rest of the year for us and making big plays," said Oklahoma coach Jeff Capel. "One of the things about Willie is I don't judge Willie by points. A lot of people do. In my mind, Willie's a guy that makes plays."

Making plays is also the specialty of Collins, the junior guard who became Kansas' leader upon the departure of last year's NBA-bound stars. He averaged a team-leading 18.3 points for the Big 12 champions and distributed five assists per game.

Aldrich, a 6-11 sophomore, averaged 14.8 points and 10.5 points. He missed unanimous selection by only one vote.

Coming barely short of averaging a double-double was Brackins, a 6-10 sophomore who rang up 20.1 points and 9.4 rebounds. His 622 points were the second-highest by a sophomore in school history.

"He's an impossible matchup," said Kansas State coach Frank Martin. "A nightmare of a matchup."

The 6-8 Carroll was last year's AP newcomer of the year and only got better his senior season. He averaged 17.1 points as the Tigers earned a first-round bye in the conference tourney for the first time in 10 years. A top student, he was also named to the Big 12's All-academic squad.

[CoMoChief]

Good he deserved it. Anderson did not.

Probably also deserves Nat'l COTY as well if KU can win out the Big12 tourney and maybe snatch a 1 seed.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Good he deserved it. Anderson did not.

Probably also deserves Nat'l COTY as well if KU can win out the Big12 tourney and maybe snatch a 1 seed.

I'd be surprised as hell at a #1 seed even if they won the tourney.... but I'd take it if they gave it.

[eazyb81]

Just a day late.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203879&highlight=all-big

[Reaper16]

Good he deserved it. Anderson did not.

Probably also deserves Nat'l COTY as well if KU can win out the Big12 tourney and maybe snatch a 1 seed.
Snatch a 1 seed?

Look at how dumb you are.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Snatch a 1 seed?

Look at how dumb you are.

what is your argument?

[Coach]

Good he deserved it. Anderson did not.

Probably also deserves Nat'l COTY as well if KU can win out the Big12 tourney and maybe snatch a 1 seed.

I disagree with you. Anderson had a team that couldn't win amount to shit, and now they're going to the NCAA tournament. And Missouri doesn't have a "big name" player like Blake Griffin or something like that.

[Sure-Oz]

I disagree with you. Anderson had a team that couldn't win amount to shit, and now they're going to the NCAA tournament. And Missouri doesn't have a "big name" player like Blake Griffin or something like that.

Everyone disagrees with him, he finds any way to shit on any MU success

[Reaper16]

what is your argument?
How the fuck is a six loss Big XII team going to get a 1 seed?

[teedubya]

we get a #2 at absolute best. NO WAY we get a #1... not with those losses to UMASS and TT. No way.

[Reaper16]

Everyone disagrees with him, he finds any way to shit on any MU success
Everyone except AP voters, apparently. Anderson should have at least shared the title with Self. MU doesn't have anything close to the talent that KU has. And MU is not that much older than KU.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

How the **** is a six loss Big XII team going to get a 1 seed?

oh, I agree. I see KU as a #3 right now, possible to go to a #2 iif they show well in OKC.

thought maybe you were one of those thinking they deserved a #1...

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Everyone except AP voters, apparently. Anderson should have at least shared the title with Self. MU doesn't have anything close to the talent that KU has. And MU is not that much older than KU.

agreed. As I said elsewhere, Self lost a lot, but was still working with prime ribeye (ok, maybe choice). Anderson was cooking with 70/30 burger....

[Sure-Oz]

Everyone except AP voters, apparently. Anderson should have at least shared the title with Self. MU doesn't have anything close to the talent that KU has. And MU is not that much older than KU.

I agree that it should've been shared as well but im not too upset. Both coaches have done a hell of a job this year even though KU def. has better talent.

[Brock]

All Anderson had to do is win at AFH.

[Pablo]

we get a #2 at absolute best. NO WAY we get a #1... not with those losses to UMASS and TT. No way.Agreed. We aren't leap-frogging teams like Memphis, Michigan State, Duke, and OU for a #1. If we have a good showing in the Big 12 tourney, like win the damn thing, yeah, a #2 is in order.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I agree that it should've been shared as well but im not too upset. Both coaches have done a hell of a job this year even though KU def. has better talent.

true, and to be honest, how often do these type of things really go to the most deserving person? usually it just goes to the most popular...

[CoMoChief]

Everyone disagrees with him, he finds any way to shit on any MU success

What success has MU had this season??? They got better, they still havent won anything.

If there was a most improved team award, that would almost certainly go to MU. too bad there isn't though.

[CoMoChief]

Agreed. We aren't leap-frogging teams like Memphis, Michigan State, Duke, and OU for a #1. If we have a good showing in the Big 12 tourney, like win the damn thing, yeah, a #2 is in order.

I dont even know why Duke is still a top 10 team to be honest

[Reaper16]

All Anderson had to do is win at AFH.
LMAO Yeah, like that ain't no thing.

[Coach]

What success has MU had this season??? They got better, they still havent won anything.

If there was a most improved team award, that would almost certainly go to MU. too bad there isn't though.

MU beat KU at Columbia. MU going to the NCAA Tournament since I believe, what, 2001?

That's pretty damned good success. KU is a different level of success. They are a "SUPPOSED" to success. KU met their "SUPPOSED" to requirement success, which IMHO, should have negated this award.

[Reaper16]

What success has MU had this season??? They got better, they still havent won anything.

If there was a most improved team award, that would almost certainly go to MU. too bad there isn't though.
The award is "Coach of the Year," not necessarily "Coach who Coached the Best Team of the Year." I think that pretty much every Big XII coach could have led Cole Aldrich and Sherron Collins to 18-20 wins. Anderson did spectacularly with a whole lot less.

[Sure-Oz]

What success has MU had this season??? They got better, they still havent won anything.

If there was a most improved team award, that would almost certainly go to MU. too bad there isn't though.

Won i believe 25 games, beat KU and Oklahoma to name some. Picked 7th and finished 3rd. Yeah they are most improved but you can't say this season hasn't been a success already considering how far from grace the program was.

[BigRedChief]

Does anyone still miss Roy?

[CoMoChief]

MU beat KU at Columbia. MU going to the NCAA Tournament since I believe, what, 2001?

That's pretty damned good success. KU is a different level of success. They are a "SUPPOSED" to success. KU met their "SUPPOSED" to requirement success, which IMHO, should have negated this award.

I guess thats why I see all of the "NCAA Tournament Appearances" banners hanging in the rafters of Mizzou Arena. I guess that's their bar of expectations.

No wonder MU has never made a Final 4.

[CoMoChief]

Does anyone still miss Roy?

I do, hes a hell of a coach. I'm fine with Self though. He won me over with last year's NC.

He better had won it last year with as talented and loaded that team was. I really thought that if he didn't win it all last season then he was never going to. The team was too talented and deep not to win it all.

[Coach]

I guess thats why I see all of the "NCAA Tournament Appearances" banners hanging in the rafters of Mizzou Arena. I guess that's their bar of expectations.

No wonder MU has never made a Final 4.

What does this has any revelence to the discussion? The COY discussion is for THIS YEAR. Whatever KU/MU did in the past, final 4's be damned, isn't even revelent to this.

What is revelent is that Missouri has tremenedously improved, and has played good basketball, (except lately) for the most part of the whole season.

[Brock]

That's pretty damned good success. KU is a different level of success. They are a "SUPPOSED" to success. KU met their "SUPPOSED" to requirement success, which IMHO, should have negated this award.

Nobody who follows college basketball thought KU was going to be this good.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

What does this has any revelence to the discussion? The COY discussion is for THIS YEAR. Whatever KU/MU did in the past, final 4's be damned, isn't even revelent to this.

What is revelent is that Missouri has tremenedously improved, and has played good basketball, (except lately) for the most part of the whole season.

I like history. I think Quantrill was COTY in 1863.

;)

[Brock]

LMAO Yeah, like that ain't no thing.

It is a thing. It's the thing he had to do, along with finishing in first place, to be COY.

[Reaper16]

It is a thing. It's the thing he had to do, along with finishing in first place, to be COY.
I don't understand why Coach of the Year = Coach of the 1st Place Team. Necessarily, that is.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Nobody who follows college basketball thought KU was going to be this good.'

KU was picked to finish 3rd in the Big 12. 3rd to 2nd or 1st isn't a big leap. Especially when OU is one of the teams in front.

[CoMoChief]

The award is "Coach of the Year," not necessarily "Coach who Coached the Best Team of the Year." I think that pretty much every Big XII coach could have led Cole Aldrich and Sherron Collins to 18-20 wins. Anderson did spectacularly with a whole lot less.

You don't think Aldrichs improvement over last season had anything to do with coaching? He's only a Sph. He's not a Senior whos played 3-4 yrs like Carroll or Lyons. He played garbage time last season and saw only a few min a game. KU lost 5-6 starters from last season and took a bunch of freshman and over achievers like Morningstar and Reed and took the Big12 by storm. 18-20 wins would have put KU at around 5th-7th in the Big12, which alot of people coming into the season wouldnt have been surprised if KU finished that low in the conf standings. I for one did not think KU would win the Big12 conf, but then again this doesn't surprise me. KU played well, and Self's done a great job coaching these kids this season.

I cant remember a coaching winning coach of the year for finishing 3rd in a league. If someone can list one then great because I can't think of one.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding yr for Kansas. Lot of people had them finishing 3rd or maybe worse. What happened? He told the leauge to go **** themselves and won the Big 12 .....again.....5th straight......9th in 13 seasons.

[Brock]

I don't understand why Coach of the Year = Coach of the 1st Place Team. Necessarily, that is.

It isn't, necessarily. I think it's what Anderson would have had to do, though.

[Reaper16]

I do, hes a hell of a coach. I'm fine with Self though. He won me over with last year's NC.

He better had won it last year with as talented and loaded that team was. I really thought that if he didn't win it all last season then he was never going to. The team was too talented and deep not to win it all.
Jesus Christ. If I were a KU fan I'd be embarrassed that you were too.

[BigRedChief]

I do, hes a hell of a coach. I'm fine with Self though. He won me over with last year's NC.

He better had won it last year with as talented and loaded that team was. I really thought that if he didn't win it all last season then he was never going to. The team was too talented and deep not to win it all.
so he wins a national championship and he's just fine.:rolleyes: You do realize that the most talented team doesn't win a high % of the time don't you?

[Pablo]

Jesus Christ. If I were a KU fan I'd be embarrassed that you were too.He's sort of a MU fan also, so we don't have to bear the load all alone...and you all have DCS, so I guess it's fair.

[Brock]

so he wins a national championship and he's just fine.:rolleyes: You do realize that the most talented team doesn't win a high % of the time don't you?

They don't usually get bounced out in the first round by some mid major school either.

[Pants]

so he wins a national championship and he's just fine.:rolleyes: You do realize that the most talented team doesn't win a high % of the time don't you?

Wait, most talent = NC 100% of the time. Our CP genius says so. I don't even know why you guys take CoMo seriously. Haven't we established the fact that he is borderline retarded yet?

[Reaper16]

You don't think Aldrichs improvement over last season had anything to do with coaching? He's only a Sph. He's not a Senior whos played 3-4 yrs like Carroll or Lyons. He played garbage time last season and saw only a few min a game. KU lost 5-6 starters from last season and took a bunch of freshman and over achievers like Morningstar and Reed and took the Big12 by storm.

I cant remember a coaching winning coach of the year for finishing 3rd in a league. If someone can list one then great because I can't think of one.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding yr for Kansas. Lot of people had them finishing 3rd or maybe worse. What happened? He told the leauge to go fuck themselves and won the Big 12 .....again.....5th straight......9th in 13 seasons.
I think Self did a tremendous job this season. But its not as if he was working with garbage. I just think that Anderson did at least equally as well a coaching job.

[DeezNutz]

The award is "Coach of the Year," not necessarily "Coach who Coached the Best Team of the Year." I think that pretty much every Big XII coach could have led Cole Aldrich and Sherron Collins to 18-20 wins. Anderson did spectacularly with a whole lot less.

This is an unbelievable overstatement.

Of course KU has great talent. This will be the case every year. But Self has done an unbelievable job this year and solidified himself as one of the, if not the, best in the nation.

Morningstar, Reed, and Tweedle-Dee & Tweedle-Dumb have been used exceptionally well. Combine this with consistent effort on the defensive end and calmness in the face of adversity...

[DeezNutz]

For Anderson, if the road losses weren't so ugly, I think he'd have a stronger case.

[Reaper16]

You don't think Aldrichs improvement over last season had anything to do with coaching? He's only a Sph. He's not a Senior whos played 3-4 yrs like Carroll or Lyons. He played garbage time last season and saw only a few min a game. KU lost 5-6 starters from last season and took a bunch of freshman and over achievers like Morningstar and Reed and took the Big12 by storm.

I cant remember a coaching winning coach of the year for finishing 3rd in a league. If someone can list one then great because I can't think of one.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding yr for Kansas. Lot of people had them finishing 3rd or maybe worse. What happened? He told the leauge to go fuck themselves and won the Big 12 .....again.....5th straight......9th in 13 seasons.
Some general objections:

1.) Well of course Aldrich improved. He got a starter's playing time this season. Its not as if we didn't know he would be excellent; look back to the Big Dance last year where he put clown shoes on Psycho T.

2.) To say that KU took the league "by storm" is overstating the point. They finished slightly ahead of OU and MU.

3.) 5th straight league tilte, etc., while showing the excellence of the KU program, has no bearing on the coaching job that Bill Self did this year.

[Bearcat]

'

KU was picked to finish 3rd in the Big 12. 3rd to 2nd or 1st isn't a big leap. Especially when OU is one of the teams in front.

I saw 4th in a couple of places... and right now there's a huge difference between 1st and 4th.


just messin' with ya

[Reaper16]

For Anderson, if the road losses weren't so ugly, I think he'd have a stronger case.
Finally, a fair point.

[DeezNutz]

Finally, a fair point.

I want to see MU do well in the tournament, but KK actually made an interesting point this afternoon: we're not entirely sure how this team will perform on a neutral site.

They've been nails at home, generally shitty on the road, and ___.

Did pretty well in PR. But that's a long time ago.

[Sure-Oz]

I want to see MU do well in the tournament, but KK actually made an interesting point this afternoon: we're not entirely sure how this team will perform on a neutral site.

They've been nails at home, generally shitty on the road, and ___.

Did pretty well in PR. But that's a long time ago.

It would be nice if they played 2 halves through most those road games. Granted they lost another game vs Xavier that they should've won because of the shitty FT shooting.

I am just stoked MU is back in the tourney and suprised us this year.

[KC_Connection]

Baaaaaaaaam.

[sedated]

The last team to lose approximately as much talent in one year as KU was Florida, and they didn’t make the tournament the following year, and are highly doubtful this year.

Say what you want about talent, but it’s a lot harder than it looks winning a major conference and getting a top 3 seed with the equivalent of an expansion team.

[DeezNutz]

coaching job that Bill Self did this year.

It's impossible to separate recruiting when talking about coaching, for the most part.

Without the talent, the rest means squat.

Self recruits, can X and O, and gets effort. He's the best coach in the country, IMO. Roy, Krezzassdlkajldski, Callllaaapparri (sp?), whoever. I'll take Self.

[kepp]

All Anderson had to do is win at AFH.

And apparently Self didn't have to win in Columbia.

With that said, I'm fine with Self winning the award after our meltdown in the aTm game. It would have been a draw had we won that, IMO.

[DeezNutz]

It would be nice if they played 2 halves through most those road games. Granted they lost another game vs Xavier that they should've won because of the shitty FT shooting.

I am just stoked MU is back in the tourney and suprised us this year.

I have no idea how anyone could think that MU's season was anything less than a complete success.

Great year.

Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. But fuck...

[Brock]

And apparently Self didn't have to win in Columbia.

With that said, I'm fine with Self winning the award after our meltdown in the aTm game. It would have been a draw had we won that, IMO.

Valid points, and it highlights what I'm talking about. Self is going to be given the edge because he's Bill Self. Anderson has to do more, unfair though it is.

[KC_Connection]

we get a #2 at absolute best. NO WAY we get a #1... not with those losses to UMASS and TT. No way.

If they win 2-3 games in this tournament, they'll get the #2 seed. Anything less at it's probably a #3 seed.

No chance at #1 anymore, definitely not.

[CoMoChief]

so he wins a national championship and he's just fine.:rolleyes: You do realize that the most talented team doesn't win a high % of the time don't you?

Yes I do know that. Roy had the talented team many times 97 02 and 03 and couldnt get it done. Roy at least made the final 4 at times. HE just couldnt win the big one til he left for UNC. In this case maybe things happen for a reason I dont know.

There was a huge thing about Self about how he couldnt get past the Elite 8, and that was almost the case again last season against Davidson. You saw his face when Curry missed that last 3 at the end. He almost got down on his knees and said Thank fucking God. Apparantly people forget about that.

[eazyb81]

I want to see MU do well in the tournament, but KK actually made an interesting point this afternoon: we're not entirely sure how this team will perform on a neutral site.

They've been nails at home, generally shitty on the road, and ___.

Did pretty well in PR. But that's a long time ago.

I'm not sure it's so much that Mizzou is shitty on the road, because we have won a few big road games.

The problem is that Mizzou, despite the success this year, is a flawed team. Our two starting guards aren't scorers and our two post players don't like to play down low. At times these flaws get exploited and there's nothing we can really do.

I think Anderson has done a great job this year, because I don't think this team really has the talent to have won 25 games. I think we could make the Sweet Sixteen if things fall right for us, but I also wouldn't be suprised at all to see us lose in the 1st round.

[Reaper16]

Self recruits, can X and O, and gets effort. He's the best coach in the country, IMO.
I agree with you.

[KC_Connection]

Yes I do know that. Roy had the talented team many times 97 02 and 03 and couldnt get it done. Roy at least made the final 4 at times. HE just couldnt win the big one til he left for UNC. In this case maybe things happen for a reason I dont know.

There was a huge thing about Self about how he couldnt get past the Elite 8, and that was almost the case again last season against Davidson. You saw his face when Curry missed that last 3 at the end. He almost got down on his knees and said Thank ****ing God. Apparantly people forget about that.
You have a terrible memory for a so-called KU fan. Curry didn't take the last shot. If he did, he probably would have made it. It was their white point guard.

[DeezNutz]

I'm not sure it's so much that Mizzou is shitty on the road, because we have won a few big road games.

The problem is that Mizzou, despite the success this year, is a flawed team. Our two starting guards aren't scorers and our two post players don't like to play down low. At times these flaws get exploited and there's nothing we can really do.

I think Anderson has done a great job this year, because I don't think this team really has the talent to have won 25 games. I think we could make the Sweet Sixteen if things fall right for us, but I also wouldn't be suprised at all to see us lose in the 1st round.

This is going to sound like a real brilliant point, but the tournament draw is maybe more important to MU, because of their style of play, than the average team.

I expect them to have success because of their athleticism and depth, but when they match-up with a team with size AND athleticism, like a KU, it's going to be tough sledding.

MU has to get out and run. Getting into the half-court set spells trouble for this squad.

[kepp]

This is going to sound like a real brilliant point, but the tournament draw is maybe more important to MU, because of their style of play, than the average team.

I expect them to have success because of their athleticism and depth, but when they match-up with a team with size AND athleticism, like a KU, it's going to be tough sledding.

MU has to get out and run. Getting into the half-court set spells trouble for this squad.

Yeah...if a team makes us use more than half of the shot clock we're usually toast.

[Reaper16]

This is going to sound like a real brilliant point, but the tournament draw is maybe more important to MU, because of their style of play, than the average team.

I expect them to have success because of their athleticism and depth, but when they match-up with a team with size AND athleticism, like a KU, it's going to be tough sledding.

MU has to get out and run. Getting into the half-court set spells trouble for this squad.
If MU can just make a damn basket in the first half, then they'll be in good shape to win a game. Their 1st-half offense in the road blowouts were just awful.

[sedated]

There was a huge thing about Self about how he couldnt get past the Elite 8, and that was almost the case again last season against Davidson. You saw his face when Curry missed that last 3 at the end. He almost got down on his knees and said Thank ****ing God. Apparantly people forget about that.

he literally got down on his knees, and most likely thanked god.

the elite 8 thing was a little unfair - he went there with Tulsa for god sakes, which was a miracle to get that far. Then a good but young Illinois team, that went to the championship the year after he left. Then KU when it was still Roy's team, who resented the fact that he was even their coach.

[DeezNutz]

If MU can just make a damn basket in the first half, then they'll be in good shape to win a game. Their 1st-half offense in the road blowouts were just awful.

True. Their most talented players have to remain aggressive and not settle for the jump shot.

[Bearcat]

Yes I do know that. Roy had the talented team many times 97 02 and 03 and couldnt get it done. Roy at least made the final 4 at times. HE just couldnt win the big one til he left for UNC. In this case maybe things happen for a reason I dont know.

There was a huge thing about Self about how he couldnt get past the Elite 8, and that was almost the case again last season against Davidson. You saw his face when Curry missed that last 3 at the end. He almost got down on his knees and said Thank ****ing God. Apparantly people forget about that.

Or perhaps it's really f***ing hard to win a National Championship... provided only a handful of teams have more than two. Ever.

I like Self more because it's better rounded basketball (being able to beat Davidson in a defensive battle, UNC in an offensive battle, and Memphis in an all-out battle was the perfect example), but arguing NCs between two coaches that have been deep into the tournament several times is ridiculous.

If Kansas makes a few free throws against Syracuse and Memphis makes a few against Kansas, it's a completely different story.

[Bearcat]

You have a terrible memory for a so-called KU fan. Curry didn't take the last shot. If he did, he probably would have made it. It was their white point guard.

Yep, Kansas smothered Curry.... there's probably a joke in there somewhere.

[HemiEd]

Bill Self has proven himself, I no longer doubt him. Incredible job, back to back.

[Skip Towne]

If MU can just make a damn basket in the first half, then they'll be in good shape to win a game. Their 1st-half offense in the road blowouts were just awful.

It's not just on the road. Remember the 16 point first half against KU in Columbia?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Does anyone still miss Roy?

Who?

[CoMoChief]

Or perhaps it's really f***ing hard to win a National Championship... provided only a handful of teams have more than two. Ever.

I like Self more because it's better rounded basketball (being able to beat Davidson in a defensive battle, UNC in an offensive battle, and Memphis in an all-out battle was the perfect example), but arguing NCs between two coaches that have been deep into the tournament several times is ridiculous.

If Kansas makes a few free throws against Syracuse and Memphis makes a few against Kansas, it's a completely different story.

Ill agree with this.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

true, and to be honest, how often do these type of things really go to the most deserving person? usually it just goes to the most popular...

I believe you can make a good arguement that Anderson was deserving of the award too, but I don't think you can say Self isn't.

[Reaper16]

It's not just on the road. Remember the 16 point first half against KU in Columbia?
Good point. MU will need to sharpen their play at the beginning of games if they don't want to get bounced early.

[CoMoChief]

Some general objections:

1.) Well of course Aldrich improved. He got a starter's playing time this season. Its not as if we didn't know he would be excellent; look back to the Big Dance last year where he put clown shoes on Psycho T.

2.) To say that KU took the league "by storm" is overstating the point. They finished slightly ahead of OU and MU.

3.) 5th straight league tilte, etc., while showing the excellence of the KU program, has no bearing on the coaching job that Bill Self did this year.

1. Well to be honest, I was all for putting Kaun on the bench last year and have Aldrich start instead.

2. They did take it by storm, could probably have an argument that KU should have only 1 loss. KU probably should have won that game in CoMo. But then again they played a Griffin-less OU team in Norman, which most would expect KU to lose that game so that at the worst would put them 15-1 in conf. TTU was a fluke and I cant say wtf happened that game other than they thought they already won the damn thing and didn't care or ???? Whatever it was it was fluke IMO.

3. I'd prob have to say that Self's job in 2006 maybe was slightly better. I dunno hard to tell. Losing all of Roy's talent he left behind and starting fresh new with all freshman under his system, that was truly his first season. That team came together in league play when IMO the Big12 was stronger that season than this years league.

[ArrowheadHawk]

MU beat KU at Columbia. MU going to the NCAA Tournament since I believe, what, 2001?

That's pretty damned good success. KU is a different level of success. They are a "SUPPOSED" to success. KU met their "SUPPOSED" to requirement success, which IMHO, should have negated this award.Ask Nebraska football what supposed to succeed gets you.

[CoMoChief]

I believe you can make a good arguement that Anderson was deserving of the award too, but I don't think you can say Self isn't.

I also dont think it's fair to discredit what Self has done just because its Kansas and they're "supposed" to be top 3 team in the conf year in and year out.

[sedated]

Yep, Kansas smothered Curry.... there's probably a joke in there somewhere.

their coach got a lot of grief for having Curry, the shooting guard, bring the ball up the court and pass to the point guard. By putting the ball in Curry's hands too early, he took the ball out of his hands when it mattered.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I saw 4th in a couple of places... and right now there's a huge difference between 1st and 4th.


just messin' with ya

:clap:

[DJay23]

A few points I've thought of as I've read through this thread.

First, a lot of folks Mizzou fans and otherwise have basically said Anderson is working with a bunch of walk ons. He's got an All Conference first teamer (Carroll), third teamer (Lyons), Honorable mention (Tiller), co defensive player of the year and all defensive teamer (Tiller), co sixth man of the year (Lawrence), and an All Rookie Selection (Taylor). That's a lot of talent. Not to diminish what Anderson has done, he's not exactly cooking with rotten food.

Second, I agree that Mizzou's matchups more than other teams, are going to be huge for it's run in the tournament. I would also add that if they can get to KC for the first 2 rounds, their chances of advancing to the Sweet 16 go up exponentially IF the Mizzou fans turn out. That 40 minutes of Hell can be broken and easy baskets scored, but if the crowd is in your ear and head and your opponent gets rattled. It makes it much tougher to break.

[Reaper16]

A few points I've thought of as I've read through this thread.

First, a lot of folks Mizzou fans and otherwise have basically said Anderson is working with a bunch of walk ons. He's got an All Conference first teamer (Carroll), third teamer (Lyons), Honorable mention (Tiller), co defensive player of the year and all defensive teamer (Tiller), co sixth man of the year (Lawrence), and an All Rookie Selection (Taylor). That's a lot of talent. Not to diminish what Anderson has done, he's not exactly cooking with rotten food.

And those awards are a product of the successful team season. I'll spot you Carroll and Tiller. But Lyons is the definition of inconsistent, and Lawrence drinks the dick sock.

[DJay23]

And those awards are a product of the successful team season. I'll spot you Carroll and Tiller. But Lyons is the definition of inconsistent, and Lawrence drinks the dick sock.

Yeah, I didn't get the Lawrence selection. He might be one of the slowest D1 players at the guard positions. He's slower than Morningstar even.

From what I remember of Lyons, he was great against KU. I didn't see any other Mizzou games outside of KU, so don't know about his consistency.

[Mosbonian]

I actually said in another thread that I could live with the selection of Self, but I thought Anderson did just as good a job with a team picked, at best, to finish 7th in the conference.

What I can't stomach is anyone (you know who you are) intimating that Self's job was head and shoulders above what Anderson did with MU this year.

mmaddog
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