More Roster Moves: Biesel Cut...

[Christofire]

That these guys were going to "mentor" the other players not familiar with the ways of Belichick and Parcells. And that these guys were a big part of the "Right 53".

Hell, so much so that just three days ago, Monty ****ing Beisel was the FACE of the KCChiefs.com.

Honestly, that's probably a scenario where the graphic design and marketing guys probably didn't care who they had on the page. They just looked for the coolest photo they had in stock, and it just happened to be Beisel. At most, that particular scenario is emblematic of a disconnect between the football operation and the business operation.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's three seasons out.
I'm not sure you can ever really count on a Free Agent to contribute to your football team that long unless you get a second contract player at a position that has a long shelf life.

Is Wade even contracted out that far?
He'll be 31 then. It's possible that he still helps your football team then, but I think I'll concede that he probably won't.

What I think he does do is give your team some stability in the meantime.
Helps stabilize the situation with your QBOTF. Helps give your offense an opportunity to function and score points.

I'm not sure you can undersell the importance of what happens up until that time.

I can get on board with what you're saying, Mic.

But it doesn't change my argument.

98% of these guys don't help the team NOW, much less next year, or the year after.

At best, they're a wash over what they replaced.

[Ebolapox]

as for the 'homer' board, I'm as nonhomer as it gets. I'm as pissed as anybody about some of the moves. I just don't waste my time pissing and moaning about shit I can't change.

[Buehler445]

I don't give a fuck that they cut Monty Beisel. Don't care, at all. I thought he was a scrub before they signed him and he proved that on the field.

The problem as I see it is that Pioli and Haley went to great lengths to try to sell us on the idea that players like Bobby Engram, Zach Thomas, Mike Goff, Terrence Copper and yes, Monty Beisel were part of the grand scheme. That these guys were going to "mentor" the other players not familiar with the ways of Belichick and Parcells. And that these guys were a big part of the "Right 53".

Hell, so much so that just three days ago, Monty fucking Beisel was the FACE of the KCChiefs.com.

Honestly, I don't care about Beisel. I said all off-season that Beisel, Thomas, Engram, Goff and Copper were worthless scrubs that wouldn't make any other roster in the NFL. But the problem as I see it is that Pioli and Haley DIDN'T think they were scrubs. They THOUGHT these guys were part of the SOLUTION.

And THAT worries me. Not nearly as much as their complete and utter disregard for the offensive line, but it DOES worry me.

And I absolutely HATE the fact that they replaced these guys with MORE Patriots and Cardinal retards.

It's a growing pattern that's NOT paying dividends.

Pretty fair post.

But, you put a lot more faith into what these guys say to the media than I do. I operate under the assumption that every single word that comes out of their mouth is utter bullshit. Much like Belichick saying Herm was a good coach and led disciplined teams. That's BS and everyone knows it. I think it is similar stuff with what was said about the guys they brought in. They had to say something other than "this team sucks so fucking bad, these guys and their walkers are better." Same thing with "the right 53". IMO, it's crap to feed to the media. I'm not going to put too much stock into what they say to the media about which guys are the cure and which guys are just bodies.

As far as the website goes, it's probably some marketing manager down on the totem pole that put his picture up there. I doubt seriously they cleared that one with the big boss. It's all speculation. Maybe they thought Biesel was going to be a world beater, I dunno, I just don't think it is as huge of deal.

Your other points are good. The OL, the Cardinals and Pats players are all legit and VERY scary. I thought we could have picked up some LB help from the Ravens cuts or PS and probably Philly too. That shit is scary. What the head bosses thought of Biesel, meh... Whatever.

[HemiEd]

My thought is that he'll never be more than a WR3, and probably won't even be on the team when we're competing for a Championship.

Age has little to do with it. Talent, however, does.

So he is not good enough to be a WR3 on a Championship team? Just asking, I don't know.

This board got me pretty excited about him, but now that is coming into question.

[Micjones]

Corey Mays
Mike Goff
Mike Brown
Bobby Wade
Leonard Pope

I'd argue for those 5.
I can't even recall who played the ILB spot for this team last year.
I know he was awful though. And while Mays might not be "good enough" he is CERTAINLY an upgrade. The same is true of Goff.

Pope is clearly better than any other TE we've had on the roster throughout the off-season program. Can't argue that he's even half as good as Gonzalez, but he's plenty young enough to contribute here for a number of years.

Wade's difficult to call because he's being used in a couple different spots.
Not sure that he's really a replacement for Bradley... But I think he's going to be productive in this offense.

Some would argue that Brown is a clear upgrade over Pollard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So he is not good enough to be a WR3 on a Championship team? Just asking, I don't know.

This board got me pretty excited about him, but now that is coming into question.

Ed, I'm not sure he's more than a WR3 on THIS team.

[Micjones]

I can get on board with what you're saying, Mic.

But it doesn't change my argument.

98% of these guys don't help the team NOW, much less next year, or the year after.

At best, they're a wash over what they replaced.

You honestly believe that Mike Brown doesn't help this team?

[Micjones]

Ed, I'm not sure he's more than a WR3 on THIS team.

I think he could be a #2 here.
I think he's valuable to this offense either way though.

[Buehler445]

I'd argue for those 5.
I can't even recall who played the ILB spot for this team last year.
I know he was awful though. And while Mays might not be "good enough" he is CERTAINLY an upgrade. The same is true of Goff.

Pope is clearly better than any other TE we've had on the roster throughout the off-season program. Can't argue that he's even half as good as Gonzalez, but he's plenty young enough to contribute here for a number of years.

Wade's difficult to call because he's being used in a couple different spots.
Not sure that he's really a replacement for Bradley... But I think he's going to be productive in this offense.

Some would argue that Brown is a clear upgrade over Pollard.

It was Pat Thomas and Rocky Boiman FTR.

[DaneMcCloud]

It was Pat Thomas and Rocky Boiman FTR.

Right.

And I'm sorry, Mike Goff isn't an upgrade over Wade Smith at right guard.

Smith is more athletic and younger. Quite honestly, I don't know why he's not on the field.

Now, that's not to say that Wade Smith is even an adequate NFL offensive lineman, it's just that I think he's better than Goff.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You honestly believe that Mike Brown doesn't help this team?

No, he doesn't.

He's made the same bullshit mistakes that the board has spent the past 3 years crucifying Pollard over.

Pollard falls into a similar category as McIntosh, IMO.

People thought they were complete ass when they were here, and now that they are gone, you're not seeing any improvement at their respective positions.

As bad as Mac was, this OL would be better with him, sad as it is to say.

As far as Brown, he's Pollard with experience and a name people know because he was part of a great Bears defense.

[Buehler445]

No, he doesn't.

He's made the same bullshit mistakes that the board has spent the past 3 years crucifying Pollard over.

Pollard falls into a similar category as McIntosh, IMO.

People thought they were complete ass when they were here, and now that they are gone, you're not seeing any improvement at their respective positions.

As bad as Mac was, this OL would be better with him, sad as it is to say.

As far as Brown, he's Pollard with experience and a name people know because he was part of a great Bears defense.

I could live with Brown's mistakes if he made some plays like he did in Chicago, but he doesn't...

[Hammock Parties]

As far as Brown, he's Pollard with experience and a name people know because he was part of a great Bears defense.

Sorry, that's bullshit. Brown has been a much better tackler so far. No comparison.

I agree on McIntosh.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I could live with Brown's mistakes if he made some plays like he did in Chicago, but he doesn't...

Exactly.

[tonyetony]

Right.

And I'm sorry, Mike Goff isn't an upgrade over Wade Smith at right guard.

Smith is more athletic and younger. Quite honestly, I don't know why he's not on the field.

Now, that's not to say that Wade Smith is even an adequate NFL offensive lineman, it's just that I think he's better than Goff.

It really sucks that we have been reduced to comparing turds.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, that's bullshit. Brown has been a much better tackler so far. No comparison.

I agree on McIntosh.

No argument there, he's been a better tackler.

But he is often out of position, or takes himself out of the play by taking bad angles - the same shit we rode Pollard's ass for.

Brown's a fucking vet. If he hasn't learned by now, he's not going to.

[Micjones]

Right.

And I'm sorry, Mike Goff isn't an upgrade over Wade Smith at right guard.

Was Smith the starter at Guard though?
I thought Adrian Jones was our starting former RG?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I hope that Pioli invents another empty phrase over the off-season because the "right 53" already sucks.

"The Turd Parade"?

I swear to god, Pioli is operating in vacuum.

I think he has pissed off every person and organization outside of his "circle".

[Micjones]

As bad as Mac was, this OL would be better with him, sad as it is to say.


Now g'head and tell him how he can't evaluate players either Dane.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Was Smith the starter at Guard though?
I thought Adrian Jones was our starting former RG?

Regardless, Goff hasn't looked any better, and that's almost fucking impossible.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Now g'head and tell him how he can't evaluate players either Dane.

What did I miss?

[Chiefnj2]

At least McIntosh could pass block a little in the pistol formation.

[Micjones]

Regardless, Goff hasn't looked any better, and that's almost fucking impossible.

Not sure that I agree, but I will say he hasn't been much of an upgrade.
That's why I think Ndukwe or Niswanger should be starting at RG.

[Micjones]

What did I miss?

Dane jumped down my throat about player evaluations in the past and he gave me a bunch of shit over Damion McIntosh.

[DaneMcCloud]

Was Smith the starter at Guard though?
I thought Adrian Jones was our starting former RG?

Adrian Jones was benched halfway through the season last year in favor of Smith.

[Micjones]

Adrian Jones was benched halfway through the season last year in favor of Smith.

He was indeed. I knew he'd started last year at some point, guess I forgot that he played as much as he did.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Dane jumped down my throat about player evaluations in the past and he gave me a bunch of shit over Damion McIntosh.

I don't know the specifics, but Mac WAS a POS.

Granted, he's a better POS than the POS we have now...

[DaneMcCloud]

Now g'head and tell him how he can't evaluate players either Dane.

Comparing a turd to a turd doesn't mean jackshit.

In case you weren't aware, OTWP, Mic here was championing D-Sack all preseason.

The mere fact that NSackwe sucks at tackle doesn't change the fact that SackIntosh sucks as well.

And in case you weren't aware, the Miami Dolphins knew that NSackwe was a shitty right tackle, which is why he started 15 games last year at right guard.

[Micjones]

I don't know the specifics, but Mac WAS a POS.

Granted, he's a better POS than the POS we have now...

The point I made then was simply that he was our best option at RT.
I, myself, wanted an upgrade at that position.

[Micjones]

Comparing a turd to a turd doesn't mean jackshit.

In case you weren't aware, OTWP, Mic here was championing D-Sack all preseason.

Don't put words on my keyboard Dane.
I never championed McIntosh. I said he was our best option at RT at that time.

That's hardly an endorsement.

This off-season I might've been the MOST vocal person about upgrading the RT position on this forum.
If you search the name "Ray Willis"... I would almost bet that most of the time he was mentioned... It was me who mentioned him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The point I made then was simply that he was our best option at RT.
I, myself, wanted an upgrade at that position.

We all wanted an upgrade.

Only the luxury of hindsight allows us to see that keeping Mac was the best option, because most of us felt it wouldn't be that difficult for the Executive of the Decade to find even the slightest of upgrades.

[DaneMcCloud]

I, myself, wanted an upgrade at that position.

You were hardly alone in that regard this past off-season

[DaneMcCloud]

This off-season I might've been the MOST vocal person about upgrading the RT position on this forum.

I highly doubt it

[DaneMcCloud]

If you search the name "Ray Willis"... I would almost bet that most of the time he was mentioned... It was me who mentioned him.

Yes, I think we all know that

[Micjones]

You were hardly alone in that regard this past off-season

Then that all but goes #2 on the idea that I was championing McIntosh.

[Micjones]

Yes, I think we all know that

Then cut the bullshit and quit telling people I was championing McIntosh.
It's dumb. And you're a better poster than that.

Now... Just say sorry and don't do it again.
:D

[Chaunceythe3rd]

Yeah, and Jim Clemons had a hand in the first Jordan three-peat. Look how good he was with the Mavericks.

Charlie Weis had a hand in those, as did Romeo Crennel. They should feel pretty about themselves, too.

Peter Giunta won 2 SB rings with the Rams and Giants.

Terry Donahue was handpicked by Bill Walsh to be GM of the 49ers. That was a ****ing rousing success too.

:clap::clap::clap: Best ever reply!

[htismaqe]

You honestly believe that Mike Brown doesn't help this team?

Dude, that's like saying "here, I got you a wheelchair so you can ditch those crutches. By the way, I'm not gonna help you get better. You still won't be able to walk. But hey, at least you've got a wheelchair!"

[Titty Meat]

Besides that stupid play vs the Raiders did Bisel really suck more then say Tamba Hali?

[beach tribe]

Don't put words on my keyboard Dane.
I never championed McIntosh. I said he was our best option at RT at that time.

That's hardly an endorsement.

This off-season I might've been the MOST vocal person about upgrading the RT position on this forum.
If you search the name "Ray Willis"... I would almost bet that most of the time he was mentioned... It was me who mentioned him.

I do remember your stance on this. We discussed it a few times, and you did say Sack was a loser, but the best option of what we have/had. Just my $.02

[raybec 4]

Besides that stupid play vs the Raiders did Bisel really suck more then say Tamba Hali?

yes

[beach tribe]

Besides that stupid play vs the Raiders did Bisel really suck more then say Tamba Hali?

Yes. He just didn't have the talent. He's as slow as Xmas, and his awareness is obviously shite.

[Micjones]

Dude, that's like saying "here, I got you a wheelchair so you can ditch those crutches. By the way, I'm not gonna help you get better. You still won't be able to walk. But hey, at least you've got a wheelchair!"

No more analogies for you kay?

How about saying, "I got you a pair of crutches so you don't have to hobble around on your own power?" THAT's an improvement. Having a wheelchair just makes things easier. But then again... That depends on what BETTER IS in that scenario.

The question was whether or not Brown was an upgrade.
Not whether or not he was "good enough".

That's a different argument altogether.

[Micjones]

I do remember your stance on this. We discussed it a few times, and you did say Sack was a loser, but the best option of what we have/had. Just my $.02

Thank you.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

this is Jeffri Chadiha, the man people on this board think is a genious, if he says it, it is true without question:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeffri&id=2864062

What you neglect to mention, is that having a horrible receiving corps the year after trading Branch, and relying on Jabbar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell ultimately cost the Patriots a 4th title, as they had numerous crucial drops in that game.

What you also neglect to mention is that the Patriots have won precisely 0 Super Bowls with Moss, and won two with Branch, including one where he was MVP.

[Titty Meat]

Wow I was way off. I said in the Goff thread that Bisel and Jackson would help this team win football games.

[Titty Meat]

What you neglect to mention, is that having a horrible receiving corps the year after trading Branch, and relying on Jabbar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell ultimately cost the Patriots a 4th title, as they had numerous crucial drops in that game.

What you also neglect to mention is that the Patriots have won precisely 0 Super Bowls with Moss, and won two with Branch, including one where he was MVP.

At this point we know Pioli could acquire talent like the Cards defense and still not win a cuz of the shit coaching the defense.

[htismaqe]

No more analogies for you kay?

How about saying, "I got you a pair of crutches so you don't have to hobble around on your own power?" THAT's an improvement. Having a wheelchair just makes things easier. But then again... That depends on what BETTER IS in that scenario.

The question was whether or not Brown was an upgrade.
Not whether or not he was "good enough".

That's a different argument altogether.

What?

If you can't walk, having a wheelchair HELPS far more than crutches in getting you from Point A to Point B.

The post from you that I quoted didn't say anything about UPGRADE or BETTER.

You said HELPS. As if you're suggesting that Mike Brown HELPS this team do anything more than give up long pass plays.

[Micjones]

What?

If you can't walk, having a wheelchair HELPS far more than crutches in getting you from Point A to Point B.

I've never known a doctor to issue crutches for someone who can't walk.
Call me crazy...

The point I'm making is... Having a wheelchair is a matter of convenience.
It's not necessarily a better situation. And we would have to define what BETTER is in that scenario anyway...

That analogy wasn't a 1:1.

The post from you that I quoted didn't say anything about UPGRADE or BETTER.

You said HELPS. As if you're suggesting that Mike Brown HELPS this team do anything more than give up long pass plays.

I believe it can be argued that Brown is an upgrade over Pollard. I said that...I stand by that.

[DaneMcCloud]

Don't put words on my keyboard Dane.
I never championed McIntosh. I said he was our best option at RT at that time.

I'm sorry to do this but...


The fact that McIntosh isn't a world beater doesn't mean that his experience in the NFL can't be valuable to a younger player. He's been around a long time.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5847220&postcount=8


People tend to go a little overboard in their assessments of Niswanger and McIntosh.

The truth is that Niswanger is a serviceable Center.
The truth is Damion McIntosh played well down the stretch at the RT spot.

I think the Offensive Line will be fairly solid.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5847534&highlight=McIntosh#post5847534

Damion McIntosh allowed just 7 sacks in 16 games last year.
That puts him in pretty good company with guys like Jon Jansen, John Tait, Gosder Cherilus and Damien Woody.

I think a healthy Mark Tauscher would've been an upgrade (as would a guy like Kevin Shaffer), but McIntosh was serviceable at that RT spot. In fact, given his ability to stay healthy and on the field he might be more valuable.


http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5848098&highlight=McIntosh#post5848098

He was sacked nearly twice per game over the last 10 games of the season.

I beg to differ.
Levi Brown was a sieve at RT for the Cardinals last season.
McIntosh outplayed him by a mile...

I think he could also win a starting job on about 5 other teams.
Snyder sucked the big one in San Fran. He could play in front of him (at RT)...in a heartbeat.

Hell Jason Peters gave up 4 more sacks on the left side and went to the Pro Bowl for crying out loud. IIRC, McIntosh has surrendered fewer sacks at LT since he joined this team.

He's a serviceable RT. The position could've been upgraded in the off-season with a couple of players, but to pretend that he's just the bane of this Offensive Line is a joke. Bear in mind that he played next to Adrian Jones.


--------------------------------------------------------------

There's plenty more...

[htismaqe]

I've never known a doctor to issue crutches for someone who can't walk.
Call me crazy...

The point I'm making is... Having a wheelchair is a matter of convenience.
It's not necessarily a better situation. And we would have to define what BETTER is in that scenario anyway...

That analogy wasn't a 1:1.

It absolutely was 1:1. I didn't say anything about BETTER.

Having a wheelchair is a matter of convenience, as you say. But what does that wheelchair HELP YOU DO?'

It helps you get around faster - it's more CONVENIENT.

But it sure as hell doesn't HELP YOU WALK. And not being able to walk is the CORE ISSUE.

I believe it can be argued that Brown is an upgrade over Pollard. I said that...I stand by that.

You may have said that in another post, but you didn't in the post I quoted.

You honestly believe that Mike Brown doesn't help this team?

So what does he HELP this team with? Not covering? Giving up big plays? Losing? He hasn't helped this team do jack shit.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"Put your words on my keeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyy-board"...

[ChiTown]

You may have said that in another post, but you didn't in the post I quoted.

You honestly believe that Mike Brown doesn't help this team?

So what does he HELP this team with? Not covering? Giving up big plays? Losing? He hasn't helped this team do jack shit.

He's helped them to an 0-3 start.........

[Titty Meat]

How much help you expect from a safety when the offense is given 5 seconds to throw the ball or the D-line is pushed back 5 yards off the ball. Brown isn't given up the big like Pollards missed tackles did. Theres way bigger holes on this team then Mike Brown.

[Hammock Parties]

He hasn't helped this team do jack shit.

Disagree.

Mike Brown is a big part of the reason the longest run against the Chiefs is 22 yards.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

And yet, "TOUCHDOWN OAKLAND"!

[htismaqe]

Disagree.

Mike Brown is a big part of the reason the longest run against the Chiefs is 22 yards.

And?

They're giving up exactly the same net yards per pass that they were last year, and he's a big reason for that.

[Titty Meat]

And yet, "TOUCHDOWN OAKLAND"!

That wasn't all Browns fault if you watch the play Hali doesn't contain the edge

[Titty Meat]

And?

They're giving up exactly the same net yards per pass that they were last year, and he's a big reason for that.

No hes not you. How bout the #1 pick this year who has 1 tackle. Or the converted D-end that was suppose to give this team a pass rush?

[htismaqe]

How much help you expect from a safety when the offense is given 5 seconds to throw the ball or the D-line is pushed back 5 yards off the ball. Brown isn't given up the big like Pollards missed tackles did. Theres way bigger holes on this team then Mike Brown.

Excuses, excuses.

It was pointed out as early as the preseason - Mike Brown is constantly out of position in zone coverage. He can't cover, period.

It doesn't matter how long the QB has - have you seen Brown step on the ball and break up a slant? That's because he CAN'T.

There may be bigger holes on this team than Brown, but his position is one where adding a playmaker could make the single biggest difference.

[htismaqe]

That wasn't all Browns fault if you watch the play Hali doesn't contain the edge

It happened ALL preseason. Keep with the excuses.

[Titty Meat]

Excuses, excuses.

It was pointed out as early as the preseason - Mike Brown is constantly out of position in zone coverage. He can't cover, period.

It doesn't matter how long the QB has - have you seen Brown step on the ball and break up a slant? That's because he CAN'T.

There may be bigger holes on this team than Brown, but his position is one where adding a playmaker could make the single biggest difference.

Since when did Mike Brown cover a WR on a slant pattern? You're a fucking idiot.

[Titty Meat]

It happened ALL preseason. Keep with the excuses.

You're thinking of Pollard. Brown barley played pre-season.

[htismaqe]

No hes not you. How bout the #1 pick this year who has 1 tackle. Or the converted D-end that was suppose to give this team a pass rush?

ROFL

You do know what a 3-4 5-technique is, right?

We all get it - Mike Brown is a former Husker.

He's also a former good football player. Emphasis on the word "former".

[Hammock Parties]

And?

They're giving up exactly the same net yards per pass that they were last year, and he's a big reason for that.

I'd say the complete and utter lack of a pass rush is a much larger reason.

[Micjones]

I'm sorry to do this but...




http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5847220&postcount=8




http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5847534&highlight=McIntosh#post5847534




http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5848098&highlight=McIntosh#post5848098




--------------------------------------------------------------

There's plenty more...

Great... Hopefully you'll be able to find a post where I called him anything more than "serviceable". Good luck.
The point stands. Calling for a replacement of a player can NEVER be called "championing".
Your eyes are Brown aren't they Dane?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And yet, "TOUCHDOWN RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRAIIIDERS!!!!"!

FYP

[Titty Meat]

ROFL

You do know what a 3-4 5-technique is, right?

We all get it - Mike Brown is a former Husker.

He's also a former good football player. Emphasis on the word "former".

It has nothing to do with him being a former husker. Fabian Washington is a former husker but I don't say hes good. Now you're just parroting whatever other posters say. When did Brown mess up coverage on a slant?

[htismaqe]

Since when did Mike Brown cover a WR on a slant pattern? You're a ****ing idiot.

Safeties in Cover 2 cover seams and slants all the time. You know there are slants that are thrown beyond 5 yards, right?

[Titty Meat]

Safeties in Cover 2 cover seams and slants all the time. You know there are slants that are thrown beyond 5 yards, right?

Proof of Mike Brown getting beat on a slant, name a specific play.

[htismaqe]

You're thinking of Pollard. Brown barley played pre-season.

Hey GoChiefs, which preseason game was it that we exchanged PM's about Mike Brown?

Brown absolutely did play in the preseason. Too bad I wasn't here to have pointed it out publically.

[Titty Meat]

Hey GoChiefs, which preseason game was it that we exchanged PM's about Mike Brown?

Brown absolutely did play in the preseason. Too bad I wasn't here to have pointed it out publically.

So you can't provide a specfic play where Mike Brown was beat on a slant? I guess that pretty much destroys your copy & paste argument.

[Titty Meat]

Anyway I'm not even saying he's great he's an average player at this point in his career but far from whats wrong with this defense. I'd say D-line, Linebackers, and Coaching are why this defense sucks.

[Hammock Parties]

Hey GoChiefs, which preseason game was it that we exchanged PM's about Mike Brown?

Brown absolutely did play in the preseason. Too bad I wasn't here to have pointed it out publically.

I don't put a lot of stock in preseason games. Brown wasn't doing much of anything at all.

Personally, after three years of shitty tackling I'll take Mike Brown as our stopgap safety. When we draft Taylor Mays he can start covering guys. Until then it really doesn't matter who's in the back four because the pass rush is still the league's worst.

[htismaqe]

So you can't provide a specfic play where Mike Brown was beat on a slant? I guess that pretty much destroys your copy & paste argument.

What copy and paste argument?

[Titty Meat]

Why would the Chiefs draft Taylor Mays when the front 7 is shambles? If we had Taylor Mays right now this defense would still suck. Until you can blitz the QB the defense will suck.

[htismaqe]

Anyway I'm not even saying he's great he's an average player at this point in his career but far from whats wrong with this defense. I'd say D-line, Linebackers, and Coaching are why this defense sucks.

This defense will never be good with the safeties they have now, regardless of who is playing in the front 7.

[htismaqe]

Why would the Chiefs draft Taylor Mays when the front 7 is shambles? If we had Taylor Mays right now this defense would still suck. Until you can blitz the QB the defense will suck.

Because an athletic safety can change games all by himself.

[Titty Meat]

Safeties are the least of the Chiefs concerns. No true Nose Guard in a 3-4 and no passh rush means /fail defense.

[Micjones]

It absolutely was 1:1. I didn't say anything about BETTER.

Having a wheelchair is a matter of convenience, as you say. But what does that wheelchair HELP YOU DO?'

It helps you get around faster - it's more CONVENIENT.

But it sure as hell doesn't HELP YOU WALK. And not being able to walk is the CORE ISSUE.

Dude, we're somewhere in Analogy purgatory right now...

Let's scrap this altogether, whaddayasay?

The point I'm making is that I think it can be argued that Brown is an upgrade over Pollard. Whether or not he's as good as we need him to be is another matter altogether.

[RustShack]

Why would the Chiefs draft Taylor Mays when the front 7 is shambles? If we had Taylor Mays right now this defense would still suck. Until you can blitz the QB the defense will suck.

Because hes a rare playmaker you can't pass up.

[The Franchise]

Safeties are the least of the Chiefs concerns. No true Nose Guard in a 3-4 and no passh rush means /fail defense.

And when we're picking in the top 5 and there isn't a true NT or OLB.....you want us to reach like we did with Jackson?

No...you take Mays or Berry because they would help this defense out and you pick up OLBs or NTs in the 2nd-3rd round.

[Titty Meat]

Because hes a rare playmaker you can't pass up.

lol please. Until the other needs are addressed he won't matter.

[Titty Meat]

And when we're picking in the top 5 and there isn't a true NT or OLB.....you want us to reach like we did with Jackson?

No...you take Mays or Berry because they would help this defense out and you pick up OLBs or NTs in the 2nd-3rd round.

How often does a team draft a safety in the top 5? I will bet you money Pioli will either draft a D-linemen, LB, or O-linemen

[The Franchise]

lol please. Until the other needs are addressed he won't matter.

So let's just keep throwing picks in the defensive front 7 instead of taking a playmaker. That's really fucking smart.

You're one of those people who thinks that we should draft an entire offensive line before we go get a QB.

[ChiTown]

lol please. Until the other needs are addressed he won't matter.

You say that, but you are dead wrong. A great Safety helps out in pass coverage, run D, blitzing and puts the fear of God into WR's running crossing routes. They most certainly can be game changers.

[htismaqe]

How often does a team draft a safety in the top 5? I will bet you money Pioli will either draft a D-linemen, LB, or O-linemen

How often does a team draft a right tackle or nose tackle in the top 5?

[RustShack]

lol please. Until the other needs are addressed he won't matter.

We have more than one pick in the draft, there is also free agency, oh and you can't accomplish everything in one offseason. Your not going to have a very talented team either if your reaching for need. Look at all the great defenses, they have a big time playmaker like Mays, they might not of needed them but you just don't pass on difference makers.

[htismaqe]

So you can't provide a specfic play where Mike Brown was beat on a slant? I guess that pretty much destroys your copy & paste argument.

Again, what copy and paste argument?

[htismaqe]

Dude, we're somewhere in Analogy purgatory right now...

Let's scrap this altogether, whaddayasay?

The point I'm making is that I think it can be argued that Brown is an upgrade over Pollard. Whether or not he's as good as we need him to be is another matter altogether.

That's fine.

But that's a different point altogether and not the one I responded to.

[Titty Meat]

So let's just keep throwing picks in the defensive front 7 instead of taking a playmaker. That's really ****ing smart.

You're one of those people who thinks that we should draft an entire offensive line before we go get a QB.

First of all why are you getting so upset? Second of all if you want to have a discussion don't put words in my mouth.

It's clear that Pioli follows the Patriots way of doing things. Look at who the Patriots have drafted with high draft picks its either been D-linemen or Linebackers. The Chiefs don't have a NG, Terrence Cody or Suh (whos probably on the small side) both would fit that need. If you want a safety you could get a guy like Kam Chancellor in the second round.

[RustShack]

How often does a team draft a safety in the top 5?

About as often as one as great as Mays comes out.

[RustShack]

If you want a safety you could get a guy like Kam Chancellor in the second round.

Yeah, lets draft Bernard Pollard instead of Sean Taylor.

[WildTurkey]

How often does a team draft a safety in the top 5? I will bet you money Pioli will either draft a D-linemen, LB, or O-linemen

so you don't think a player in the mold of Ed Reed or Sean Taylor would help this defense :shake:

[htismaqe]

First of all why are you getting so upset? Second of all if you want to have a discussion don't put words in my mouth.

It's clear that Pioli follows the Patriots way of doing things. Look at who the Patriots have drafted with high draft picks its either been D-linemen or Linebackers. The Chiefs don't have a NG, Terrence Cody or Suh (whos probably on the small side) both would fit that need. If you want a safety you could get a guy like Kam Chancellor in the second round.

The Patriots haven't drafted in the top 5. The closest they came was 6th with Richard Seymour.

So you can pretty much throw out that argument. There's no evidence to back it up either way.

Yes, the Patriots take alot of linemen. But they do it in the late 1st and 2nd rounds, where they are usually picking.

We can't really say what they would have done with Top 5 picks.

[Titty Meat]

so you don't think a player in the mold of Ed Reed or Sean Taylor would help this defense :shake:

And what do all great safeties have in common? A great pass rush.

[htismaqe]

so you don't think a player in the mold of Ed Reed or Sean Taylor would help this defense :shake:

Not anymore than Mike Brown. Brown is hamstrung by the pass rush.

[WildTurkey]

About as often as one as great as Mays comes out.

shit don't forget about Berry.... he's worth a top 5 too

[Titty Meat]

The Patriots haven't drafted in the top 5. The closest they came was 6th with Richard Seymour.

So you can pretty much throw out that argument. There's no evidence to back it up either way.

Yes, the Patriots take alot of linemen. But they do it in the late 1st and 2nd rounds, where they are usually picking.

We can't really say what they would have done with Top 5 picks.

Look at there top 10 picks.

[RustShack]

And what do all great safeties have in common? A great pass rush.

Theres not great players at every position every year fuck stick. You have to take them while you can.

[Titty Meat]

Yeah, lets draft Bernard Pollard instead of Sean Taylor.

K before we start making shit up maybe you should look up who Kam Chancellor is. Also Taylor was Questionable in pass coverage certainly wasn't worth a top 5 pick.

[Titty Meat]

Theres not great players at every position every year **** stick. You have to take them while you can.

Terrence Cody or Suh aren't great prospects? Thats laughable.

[WildTurkey]

And what do all great safeties have in common? A great pass rush.

they are also all playmakers.... Mays or Berry would instantly upgrade this defense against both the run and the pass.... but hell lets just draft another Texas bust like Sergio Kindle instead :banghead:

[Hammock Parties]

Taylor Mays would help Mike Brown be a better player, since Mays can play centerfield all by himself....think about that, billay.

[htismaqe]

Look at there top 10 picks.

They've only got two.

And the #10 pick they used on Mayo isn't worth anywhere NEAR what the #5 pick is.

[WildTurkey]

K before we start making shit up maybe you should look up who Kam Chancellor is. Also Taylor was Questionable in pass coverage certainly wasn't worth a top 5 pick.

Kam Chancellor is a liability in pass coverage as well... Alabama abused him all game long

[Chiefnj2]

There are many ways to build a football team, and you need a team to win. Suh alone won't do much. Berry alone won't do much. Both should be monumental ugrades.

[Titty Meat]

They've only got two.

And the #10 pick they used on Mayo isn't worth anywhere NEAR what the #5 pick is.

lol ORLY?

[The Franchise]

Look at there top 10 picks.

Ok....going back to 1990....the Patriots have drafted these people in the top 10.

1990:

1 8 Chris Singleton LB Arizona
1 10 Ray Agnew DE North Carolina State

1993:

1 1 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State

1994:

1 4 Willie McGinest OLB USC

1996:

1 7 Terry Glenn WR Ohio State

2001:

1 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia

2008:

1 10 Jerod Mayo ILB Tennessee

[DaneMcCloud]

Great... Hopefully you'll be able to find a post where I called him anything more than "serviceable". Good luck.
The point stands. Calling for a replacement of a player can NEVER be called "championing".
Your eyes are Brown aren't they Dane?

I beg to differ.
Levi Brown was a sieve at RT for the Cardinals last season.
McIntosh outplayed him by a mile...

Well there, you stated that he outplayed the starting right guard for a Super Bowl team with the #3 overall offense last year.

But I guess that's not a compliment. :rolleyes:



I think he could also win a starting job on about 5 other teams.
Snyder sucked the big one in San Fran. He could play in front of him (at RT)...in a heartbeat.

The starter on five other teams, eh? He's not even on an NFL roster.


Hell Jason Peters gave up 4 more sacks on the left side and went to the Pro Bowl for crying out loud. IIRC, McIntosh has surrendered fewer sacks at LT since he joined this team.

Here, you compare him to Jason Peters, a player that the Eagles gave up a #1 draft choice this year.

He's a serviceable RT. The position could've been upgraded in the off-season with a couple of players, but to pretend that he's just the bane of this Offensive Line is a joke. Bear in mind that he played next to Adrian Jones.

Here, you claim that he isn't the worst offensive lineman and blame Adrian Jones for his poor play.

-------------------------------------------------

Call it what you will: "Championing", "Defending", "Praising", whatever.

The bottom line is that month after month and post after post, you repeatedly defended McIntosh's offensive line play AND compared him to some of the best offensive linemen in the NFL AND said he's start for five other teams.

And out of all 11,000+ Chiefsplanet members, you were by far the most vocal in supporting him.

[htismaqe]

Terrence Cody or Suh aren't great prospects? Thats laughable.

What do we need Suh for? We've got 3 guys that we drafted in the last 2 years that do basically the same thing.

And a top 5 pick for a nose tackle is a steep price to pay.

I mean, you don't like the Tyson Jackson pick. A 3-4 NT is even MORE invisible.

[Titty Meat]

There are many ways to build a football team, and you need a team to win. Suh alone won't do much. Berry alone won't do much. Both should be monumental ugrades.

Thank you theres 11 players on defense. If I drafted Cody teams wouldn't run on the Chiefs and Chancellor in the 2nd round would be a physical safety. With the other 2nd round pick I'd draft Wisnewski from Penn State.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHm_2cDl44M

[The Franchise]

Terrence Cody or Suh aren't great prospects? Thats laughable.

Terrence Cody is a 2 down player.

Suh doesn't fit our defense.

You're laughable.

[Titty Meat]

Terrence Cody is a 2 down player.

Suh doesn't fit our defense.

You're laughable.

You're butthurt.

[htismaqe]

lol ORLY?

The Jets traded their 1st rounder (12th overall) and they're 2nd rounder, plus 3 players to trade up to #5.

Get real dude.

[Titty Meat]

The Jets traded their 1st rounder (12th overall) and they're 2nd rounder, plus 3 players to trade up to #5.

Get real dude.

Who cares? Mayo was the rookie of the year on defense. The Patriots would have drafted him no mater wherre they picked. #1,#5, #7 its the Patriot way. but were smart got extra picks and still got there guy.

[RustShack]

Terrence Cody or Suh aren't great prospects? Thats laughable.

Cody was being pretty well handled by one OG when Alabama was in a four man front last week and when they were in a three man front he was easily neutralized by two guys. He doesn't have any explosion to collapse the pocket, he runs out of gas after bullrushing for a few steps, rarely played on third down and only played about every other series. Seems like he has serious stamina issues to me and well if he can't do anything against college Olinemen hows he going to do it in the Pros?

[WildTurkey]

Thank you theres 11 players on defense. If I drafted Cody teams wouldn't run on the Chiefs and Chancellor in the 2nd round would be a physical safety. With the other 2nd round pick I'd draft Wisnewski from Penn State.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHm_2cDl44M

Chancellor is bad in coverage... Alabama picked on him all game long in the season opener.... Mays and Berry are two rare talents.... players like them don't come around too often.... Drafting based on need is how we got into this mess...

[RustShack]

Ok....going back to 1990....the Patriots have drafted these people in the top 10.

1990:

1 8 Chris Singleton LB Arizona
1 10 Ray Agnew DE North Carolina State

1993:

1 1 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State

1994:

1 4 Willie McGinest OLB USC

1996:

1 7 Terry Glenn WR Ohio State

2001:

1 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia

2008:

1 10 Jerod Mayo ILB Tennessee

What about when Billichick was with the Browns?

[SDChiefs]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10147460/Move-over-Lions,-these-teams-might-be-worse

Even the national media thinks we are doomed for suckage.

[Titty Meat]

Chancellor is bad in coverage... Alabama picked on him all game long in the season opener.... Mays and Berry are two rare talents.... players like them don't come around too often.... Drafting based on need is how we got into this mess...

Yea all 230 yards yards vs Va Tech. They averaged 7 yards a pass dude.

[The Franchise]

What about when Billichick was with the Browns?

What years were those?


EDIT: Nevermind....91-95. Let me go check.

[htismaqe]

Who cares? Mayo was the rookie of the year on defense. The Patriots would have drafted him no mater wherre they picked. #1,#5, #7 its the Patriot way. but were smart got extra picks and still got there guy.

How can you say it's the Patriot way when they NEVER DID IT?

The Patriots under Pioli NEVER picked in the Top 5. Pretending to know what they would have done with such a pick is silly.

[ChiTown]

Chancellor is bad in coverage... Alabama picked on him all game long in the season opener.... Mays and Berry are two rare talents.... players like them don't come around too often.... Drafting based on need is how we got into this mess...

THIS!

[The Franchise]

What about when Billichick was with the Browns?

What years were those?


EDIT: Nevermind....91-95. Let me go check.

1991:

1 2 Eric Turner FS UCLA

1992:

1 9 Tommy Vardell FB Stanford

1994:

1 9 Antonio Langham CB Alabama

[htismaqe]

And I still want to know what this copy and paste argument was...

[Titty Meat]

How can you say it's the Patriot way when they NEVER DID IT?

The Patriots under Pioli NEVER picked in the Top 5. Pretending to know what they would have done with such a pick is silly.

You're really reaching here. Look did they not draft Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Mayo, even Mankins in the first round?

[WildTurkey]

Yea all 230 yards yards vs Va Tech. They averaged 7 yards a pass dude.

it would help if you actually watched the game.... Alabama kept throwing over the top on Chancellor...

[ChiTown]

1991:

1 2 Eric Turner FS UCLA

1992:

1 9 Tommy Vardell FB Stanford

1994:

1 9 Antonio Langham CB Alabama

A Fullback at 9? LMAO

[The Franchise]

You're really reaching here. Look did they not draft Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Mayo, even Mankins in the first round?

Late 1st round....not top 5. HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

[Titty Meat]

it would help if you actually watched the game.... Alabama kept throwing over the top on Chancellor...

I watched the game, I watch college football and they averaged 7 yards a completion.

[The Franchise]

A Fullback at 9? LMAO

Yeah. CP would explode if we took a FB in the top 10. Shit....any fan would.

[htismaqe]

1 2 Eric Turner FS UCLA

Whoopsie.

So the one time in his career Belichick had a top 5 pick, he took a SAFETY?

ROFL

[ChiTown]

Yeah. CP would explode if we took a FB in the top 10. Shit....any fan would.
Actually, if he could play LT as well, I wouldn't have a problem with it......

:D

[RustShack]

Cody was being pretty well handled by one OG when Alabama was in a four man front last week and when they were in a three man front he was easily neutralized by two guys. He doesn't have any explosion to collapse the pocket, he runs out of gas after bullrushing for a few steps, rarely played on third down and only played about every other series. Seems like he has serious stamina issues to me and well if he can't do anything against college Olinemen hows he going to do it in the Pros?

Bump for Billays response

[Titty Meat]

Late 1st round....not top 5. HUGE ****ING DIFFERENCE.

Dear Teflon idiot,


My point is the Patriot way is you build inside out. Are you saying the D-line and O-lines are built? They aren't which would probably indicate the Chiefs will draft a linemen in the first round.

[htismaqe]

You're really reaching here. Look did they not draft Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Mayo, even Mankins in the first round?

Seymour was the 6th overall pick.

Mankins was the 32nd overall pick.

Since you're obviously a master of logic and reason, prove to me that they would have picked those guys had they not been drafting in the position they were in.

Show your work.

[htismaqe]

Dear Teflon idiot,


My point is the Patriot way is you build inside out. Are you saying the D-line and O-lines are built? They aren't which would probably indicate the Chiefs will draft a linemen in the first round.

Safety is an "inside" position.

[Titty Meat]

Bump for Billays response

I didn't see the game but so what its one game. Mays or Berry never got beat? You can't coach size.

[Titty Meat]

Safety is an "inside" position.

HAHAHA! / Ballgame

[htismaqe]

Billay thinks the 32nd overall pick has the same value as a Top 5 pick, obviously.

[RustShack]

Dear Teflon idiot,


My point is the Patriot way is you build inside out. Are you saying the D-line and O-lines are built? They aren't which would probably indicate the Chiefs will draft a linemen in the first round.

So how many first round picks do the Pats have starting on the Oline? Because we already have one that was drafted 15th overall.

[Titty Meat]

Billay thinks the 32nd overall pick has the same value as a Top 5 pick, obviously.

Re-read what I said or go drink antifreeze.

[htismaqe]

HAHAHA! / Ballgame

What?

[WildTurkey]

I watched the game, I watch college football and they averaged 7 yards a completion.

no obviously you don't... even the play by play announcers noticed that Alabama was picking on Chancellor.. as they commented on it

[RustShack]

I didn't see the game but so what its one game. Mays or Berry never got beat? You can't coach size.

So since size is all that matters why isn't Ken Shackelford still on our team?

[SAUTO]

And I still want to know what this copy and paste argument was...

i dont think HE even knows. you almost always come up with original shit. one of the better posters on the board. in NO WAY do i see you as a parrot, which is what billy is trying to say. i think he has you confused with himself or ROR

[Titty Meat]

What?

I said Pioli builds teams inside out and you said a safety was a inside postion. No it's not URINE IDIOT.

[ChiTown]

I didn't see the game but so what its one game. Mays or Berry never got beat? You can't coach size.

and you can't teach retarded............Thanks for proving that point:thumb:

[Titty Meat]

no obviously you don't... even the play by play announcers noticed that Alabama was picking on Chancellor.. as they commented on it

Nice, Matt Millen was a play by play announcer howd he do as a GM? Chancellor got beat on one play by Maze for 40 yards he thought there was coverage over top too.

[RustShack]

I said Pioli builds teams inside out and you said a safety was a inside postion.

Depends on what angle your looking at

[The Franchise]

It's like arguing with the special kid that retrieves carts at the local grocery store.

[htismaqe]

Re-read what I said or go drink antifreeze.

I read what you said.

The simple fact remains - they've never picked in the Top 5.

None of the players you listed were picked in the Top 5.

You're trying to suggest that the Patriot Way completely IGNORES the value of a draft pick.

And we know from Belichick's own words that you are wrong.

[Titty Meat]

and you can't teach retarded............Thanks for proving that point:thumb:

Nice of you to troll

[WildTurkey]

Watch Berry against Florida and tell me he doesn't look world's better than Chancellor

[Titty Meat]

I read what you said.

The simple fact remains - they've never picked in the Top 5.

None of the players you listed were picked in the Top 5.

You're trying to suggest that the Patriot Way completely IGNORES the value of a draft pick.

And we know from Belichick's own words that you are wrong.

So you are denying the Patriots built from the inside out?

[Titty Meat]

Watch Berry against Florida and tell me he doesn't look world's better than Chancellor

I'm not saying Chancellor is better than Berry. What I am saying is the Chiefs would get better value drafting a dominate NG then draft a safety in the 2nd round.

[The Franchise]

Wow.....just wow.

[SAUTO]

I'm not saying Chancellor is better than Berry. What I am saying is the Chiefs would get better value drafting a dominate NG then draft a safety in the 2nd round.

i think you mean dominant

[htismaqe]

I said Pioli builds teams inside out and you said a safety was a inside postion. No it's not URINE IDIOT.

Where's Hamas?

We need a ROFLcopter!

You said we don't need a safety.

I said we do.

You said Pioli won't take a safety in the top 5.

I said prove it.

You said the Patriot Way is to build from the inside out - both lines and LB - we won't take a safety.

I said that safety is an inside position.

You respond with "ballgame!"

Please help me build a conclusion here, because I'm struggling to come up with one that isn't completely denigrating for you.

[WildTurkey]

I'm not saying Chancellor is better than Berry. What I am saying is the Chiefs would get better value drafting a dominate NG then draft a safety in the 2nd round.

I'm sorry I would much rather have an Ed Reed Clone on this team than reach on a NT

[Chiefnj2]

Thank you theres 11 players on defense. If I drafted Cody teams wouldn't run on the Chiefs and Chancellor in the 2nd round would be a physical safety. With the other 2nd round pick I'd draft Wisnewski from Penn State.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHm_2cDl44M

I'd rather take Berry and the best available OLB with the early 2nd round pick.

[RustShack]

So you are denying the Patriots built from the inside out?

On the Dline they are, but they ALSO drafted guys like QB Drew Bledseo, DE Willie McGiniest, CB Ty Law, WR Terry Glenn, before they started drafting their Dlinemen.

[The Franchise]

Are you a FindtheDr dupe?

[ChiTown]

Wow.....just wow.

You know the old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag down to their level and beat you with experience....."

[htismaqe]

So you are denying the Patriots built from the inside out?

Nope.

I'm denying that the Patriots would have the EXACT same strategy if they were picking in the Top 5 in CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Not only have they not picked in the Top 5 in consecutive years, they haven't picked in the Top 5 EVER.

Furtermore, you defacto acknowledged that safeties are "inside" players while simultaneously trying to say that we won't take a safety because the Patriots want to build from the inside out.

[RustShack]

I'm sorry I would much rather have an Ed Reed Clone on this team than reach on a NT

This, especially a Dlinemen that plays two downs every other series... IDK an everydown HOF type player seems more appealing to me.

[htismaqe]

On the Dline they are, but they ALSO drafted guys like QB Drew Bledseo, DE Willie McGiniest, CB Ty Law, WR Terry Glenn, before they started drafting their Dlinemen.

BB and Pioli didn't.

We're talking strictly about the Belichick blueprint here.

[Titty Meat]

Where's Hamas?

We need a ROFLcopter!

You said we don't need a safety.

I said we do.

You said Pioli won't take a safety in the top 5.

I said prove it.

You said the Patriot Way is to build from the inside out - both lines and LB - we won't take a safety.

I said that safety is an inside position.

You respond with "ballgame!"

Please help me build a conclusion here, because I'm struggling to come up with one that isn't completely denigrating for you.


You are proof of why sniffing glue is bad. Inside out means inside (o-line & d-line) outside LB's, secondary, WR, ect.

Did the Patriots not first draft Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mankins? Before drafting guys like Mayo, Merriwether, Maroney?

[Just Passin' By]

How often does a team draft a safety in the top 5? I will bet you money Pioli will either draft a D-linemen, LB, or O-linemen

Taylor (2004)
Turner (1991)


Those are the only two safeties taken at #5 or higher since 1991.

[Titty Meat]

I'm sorry I would much rather have an Ed Reed Clone on this team than reach on a NT

Ed Reed would struggle on this defense.

[RustShack]

BB and Pioli didn't.

We're talking strictly about the Belichick blueprint here.

Wouldn't that fall under Parcells who Bill and Scott learned from?

[WildTurkey]

Ed Reed would struggle on this defense.

No... I don't think Ed Reed would struggle in any defense... he's always around the ball making plays... saving touchdowns, and scoring touchdowns..... players like that are exactly what the Chiefs need...

[htismaqe]

You are proof of why sniffing glue is bad. Inside out means inside (o-line & d-line) outside LB's, secondary, WR, ect.

Did the Patriots not first draft Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mankins? Before drafting guys like Mayo, Merriwether, Maroney?

Cornerbacks are outside players. Safeties are inside players.

O-line and D-line are not "inside". They are "front". This is basic Defense 101.

The defense, FRONT to BACK, is:
DL, LB, DB

The defense, OUTSIDE to INSIDE, is:
DE, OLB, CB --> DT, ILB, S

You don't even know what argument you're trying to make.

[ChiTown]

Ed Reed would struggle on this defense.

Why would he struggle? Because he can cover a wr? Because he has a nose for the ball? Because he doesn't overrun plays and get himself out of position?

[The Franchise]

You know the old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag down to their level and beat you with experience....."

My brain is starting to hurt...

[Pablo]

Ed Reed would struggle on this defense.Stupid post is stupid.

[Pablo]

I guess Brandon Flowers is really struggling on this defense; because the lack of talent around him is really dragging down his play...huh billay?

[htismaqe]

Taylor (2004)
Turner (1991)


Those are the only two safeties taken at #5 or higher since 1991.

And Turner was taken by Bill Belichick.

[Titty Meat]

Why would he struggle? Because he can cover a wr? Because he has a nose for the ball? Because he doesn't overrun plays and get himself out of position?

How many safeties can cover for 5 seconds? Ed Reed has the luxury of a D-line that can fill all gaps and hold the line whey they get a pass rush. The Chiefs can't do any of that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Billay's getting a haircut in this thread.

http://i34.tinypic.com/14e2r2a.jpg

[Titty Meat]

I guess Brandon Flowers is really struggling on this defense; because the lack of talent around him is really dragging down his play...huh billay?

Brandon Flowers would be a pro bowler if he didn't have to cover guys for 5 seconds.

[Titty Meat]

Billay's getting a haircut in this thread.

http://i34.tinypic.com/14e2r2a.jpg

Yea by morons who obviously don't watch college football. Id love to hear your take on how a safety would be great with this defense.

[htismaqe]

I think I figured out the "copy and paste" comment.

I blamed his support of Mike Brown on being a Husker fan and he apparently thought I got that idea from somebody else.

Ironically, the only other mention of it that I could find came from ME.

[RustShack]

How many safeties can cover for 5 seconds? Ed Reed has the luxury of a D-line that can fill all gaps and hold the line whey they get a pass rush. The Chiefs can't do any of that.

Not this year, and the first round pick isn't the only way to fix that either. Have you ever heard of a coverage sack?

[Titty Meat]

I think I figured out the "copy and paste" comment.

I blamed his support of Mike Brown on being a Husker fan and he apparently thought I got that idea from somebody else.

Ironically, the only other mention of it that I could find came from ME.

Actually no. You parroted the same thing OnTheWarPath said in another thread. I asked you for proof and you didn't post any.

[Pablo]

Brandon Flowers would be a pro bowler if he didn't have to cover guys for 5 seconds.Sure, he'd a better player with better talent around him; but he's not struggling in the least. And neither would Ed Reed. Does it greatly benefit ol' Edward to have a hellacious pass-rush and a talented LB corps? Well, most definitely. But he sure as shit wouldn't struggle on our defense.

He'd just nail his assignments and find his way to the ball like he's always done.

[htismaqe]

How many safeties can cover for 5 seconds? Ed Reed has the luxury of a D-line that can fill all gaps and hold the line whey they get a pass rush. The Chiefs can't do any of that.

Mike Brown can't cover period.

The whole 5 seconds thing is an excuse Billay.

Do a Google search for "mike brown blown coverage". The first 100 hits or so are Bears forums complaining about the guy.

[Titty Meat]

Not this year, and the first round pick isn't the only way to fix that either. Have you ever heard of a coverage sack?

And you expect a team to be dominate based on coverage sacks? :)

[Chiefnj2]

Berry in the first and Norwood in the 2nd and you have the beginnings of a good defense to build around.

[Titty Meat]

Sure, he'd a better player with better talent around him; but he's not struggling in the least. And neither would Ed Reed. Does it greatly benefit ol' Edward to have a hellacious pass-rush and a talented LB corps? Well, most definitely. But he sure as shit wouldn't struggle on our defense.

He'd just nail his assignments and find his way to the ball like he's always done.

It'd be hard to find your way to the ball when the likes of Tamba Hali are pushed into you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Actually no. You parroted the same thing OnTheWarPath said in another thread. I asked you for proof and you didn't post any.

Wow.

I never would have guessed that on a forum with 10,000 members, at some time two of them would share an opinion.

ROFL

[ChiTown]

How many safeties can cover for 5 seconds? Ed Reed has the luxury of a D-line that can fill all gaps and hold the line whey they get a pass rush. The Chiefs can't do any of that.
N!gga Please!

[Titty Meat]

Wow.

I never would have guessed that on a forum with 10,000 members, at some time two of them would share an opinion.

ROFL

Is that why he copied you word for word?

[Pablo]

Yea by morons who obviously don't watch college football. Id love to hear your take on how a safety would be great with this defense.We're not arguing that Ed Reed would be the exact same caliber of player he is in Baltimore. He definitely has a great supporting cast; but he's got the natural talent and ball-hawking ability to succeed anywhere he would play at. In any scheme, he'd be at least a very good starting safety.

In Baltimore, he's an outstanding perennial pro-bowler and some of that has to be credited to his coaching and personnel surrounding him; but a whole lot of it has to do with the fact that Ed Reed is baller, son. And he sure as shit wouldn't struggle with the Chiefs.

[WildTurkey]

Did you not watch the Chiefs Raiders game.... a playmaking safety would have made a huge difference in that final drive and possibly changed the outcome

[The Franchise]

Yea by morons who obviously don't watch college football. Id love to hear your take on how a safety would be great with this defense.

You act like we don't have more than one pick in the upcoming draft.

[Titty Meat]

Did you not watch the Chiefs Raiders game.... a playmaking safety would have made a huge difference in that final drive and possibly changed the outcome

Really? They would have Blitzed the QB?

[htismaqe]

Actually no. You parroted the same thing OnTheWarPath said in another thread. I asked you for proof and you didn't post any.

Ah, so having the same opinion as someone else, regardless of how you arrived at said opinion, is "parroting". Got it.

And what proof would you like me to post? I don't GIF the games like GoChiefs, and I wasn't able to post here until after the first game, so there's no play-by-play for me to "copy and paste".

I'll find some though. I wouldn't want you to be disappointed.

[htismaqe]

Is that why he copied you word for word?

ROFL

Find the post and paste it here. You're big on "copy and paste" so put it to work big guy.

[RustShack]

The Steelers defense hasn't really been that great since losing Troy. The Colts defense sucks when Sanders isn't playing.

[Titty Meat]

You said the same thing he did verbatim. And OnTheWarPath don't bitch about getting made fun of in a thread. When I cracked on your wife you ran to the mods.

[WildTurkey]

Really? They would have Blitzed the QB?

No but they would have had a guy that could make a play on the ball.... and not let a WR sit out 30 yards down the field by themselves

[Titty Meat]

No but they would have had a guy that could make a play on the ball.... and not let a WR sit out 30 yards down the field by themselves

Pendergast had Adrian Wilson and his defense still sucked. Perhaps its the scheme.

[htismaqe]

You said the same thing he did verbatim. And OnTheWarPath don't bitch about getting made fun of in a thread. When I cracked on your wife you ran to the mods.

So you can't back it up.

You've accused me of plagiarism my friend.

PROVE IT.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Is that why he copied you word for word?

ROFL

Find the post and paste it here. You're big on "copy and paste" so put it to work big guy.

Time to put up, or shut the fuck up.

[Pablo]

I watch a pretty fair amount of college ball; and I've only watched Eric Berry play one time. And he was fucking amazing. Maybe I caught the best game he ever played and I'm just basing this off an incredibly small sample size; but I'd love to see him in a Chiefs uni. With our first pick. I've also watched Taylor Mays play probably 4 or 5 times, and that dude is baller too. I prefer Berry at this point; but I'd love to see a safety that can actually cover his goddamn assignments, come up in the box and hit a motherfucker, and get the occasional INT. If we have to pass on Cody for that, so be it.

[Titty Meat]

Time to put up, or shut the **** up.

Hes the one who threw down the guantlet so he can find it. You gonna report me again you beat down little bitch?

[htismaqe]

Hes the one who threw down the guantlet so he can find it. You gonna report me again you beat down little bitch?

ROFL

You accused me. The burden of proof is on you, bud.

Produce the post that I copied verbatim.

Or are you a hypocrite, too?

[HemiEd]

The Jets traded their 1st rounder (12th overall) and they're 2nd rounder, plus 3 players to trade up to #5.

Get real dude. And that was a bargain, right? Due to the fact nobody wanted to move up, so Cleveland had to take that deal.

[The Franchise]

Hes the one who threw down the guantlet so he can find it. You gonna report me again you beat down little bitch?

Oooooooooh. Internet tough guy over here.

[WildTurkey]

Pendergast had Adrian Wilson and his defense still sucked. Perhaps its the scheme.

Adrian Wilson is not a cover safety he's a glorified linebacker..... Eric Berry is nothing like him

[Titty Meat]

Oooooooooh. Internet tough guy over here.

I'm not the one who talks shit then goes and reports people when they hurt my feelings

[OnTheWarpath15]

Hes the one who threw down the guantlet so he can find it. You gonna report me again you beat down little bitch?

The burden of proof is on you, dipshit.

YOU made the claim that he plagarized a post of mine VERBATIM.

Now YOU need to prove that he did so.

[Titty Meat]

The burden of proof is on you, dipshit.

YOU made the claim that he plagarized a post of mine VERBATIM.

Now YOU need to prove that he did so.

I found his quote now find your quote on Mike Brown i'll post them

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm not the one who talks shit then goes and reports people when they hurt my feelings

You made comments about my WIFE, you fuckstick.

You don't even have the balls to debate ME, so you attack my wife.

Many of us know each other here, and it's much like a family - if you make comments like that, you're going to get reported.

But please, keep going. Earn yourself a vacation.

[Pablo]

I found his quote now find your quote on Mike Brown i'll post themGo over to OTWP's name. Then click on it. Links will appear. Click on the tab that says find other posts by OTWP. Cycle through said posts. Post evidence.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oooooooooh. Internet tough guy over here.

Yeah, so tough he attacks my wife, and not me.

Stay classy.

[HemiEd]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10147460/Move-over-Lions,-these-teams-might-be-worse

Even the national media thinks we are doomed for suckage.

Oh crap, now they might cancel all the Chiefs prime time, nationally broadcast games.

[Pablo]

Hey, do you guys remember the 90's?

The Huskers were really good then.

[Titty Meat]

You made comments about my WIFE, you ****stick.

You don't even have the balls to debate ME, so you attack my wife.

Many of us know each other here, and it's much like a family - if you make comments like that, you're going to get reported.

But please, keep going. Earn yourself a vacation.

I said plenty about you. Earn a vacation I didn't say shit today. You've said stuff about my family too go fuck yourself hypocrite.

[htismaqe]

I don't have any video evidence. Nor do I have any words of my own since I didn't have my account back until after week 1. But here's some other members' thoughts on Mike Brown after PRESEASON GAME 2.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5993289

See Billay, I'm making an effort.

Now it's your turn. Instructions on how to find his post are right there. Go find it. Show me how I copied and pasted his words verbatim.

Be a man. Or can you?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I said plenty about you. Earn a vacation I didn't say shit today. You've said stuff about my family too go fuck yourself hypocrite.

There's another accusation you can't prove.

Seriously, someone needs to take out the trash.

[htismaqe]

Here's a thread by me after the Baltimore game. All ORIGINAL thoughts, including about Brown.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6069918

[htismaqe]

And yet another member that observed Mike Brown in the PRESEASON.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6013882

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't have any video evidence. Nor do I have any words of my own since I didn't have my account back until after week 1. But here's some other members' thoughts on Mike Brown after PRESEASON GAME 2.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5993289

See Billay, I'm making an effort.

Now it's your turn. Instructions on how to find his post are right there. Go find it. Show me how I copied and pasted his words verbatim.

Be a man. Or can you?

He can't.

That's become the norm around here, people think they make wild claims and accusations and not have to answer to them - "hey, it's the internet, who cares?"

[Titty Meat]

The Quote wasn't Verbatim but they were exact and it was after OnTheWarPAth posted.

Excuses, excuses.It was pointed out as early as the preseason - Mike Brown is constantly out of position in zone coverage. He can't cover, period.It doesn't matter how long the QB has - have you seen Brown step on the ball and break up a slant? That's because he CAN'T.There may be bigger holes on this team than Brown, but his position is one where adding a playmaker could make the single biggest difference.

[Pablo]

The Quote wasn't Verbatim but they were exact and it was after OnTheWarPAth posted.You're right. Those quotes are eerily similar.

[Titty Meat]

He can't.

That's become the norm around here, people think they make wild claims and accusations and not have to answer to them - "hey, it's the internet, who cares?"

Whos being the internet tough guy now? Like I said you can talk all kinds of shit but when someone talks back to you run like a bitch.

[Titty Meat]

Whoops it didnt copy the other dipshit

[Just Passin' By]

And Turner was taken by Bill Belichick.

Yes, and Turner was an All Pro.

1991 was the Russell Maryland year, when the Patriots traded the #1 overall to the Cowboys and ended up with Pat Harlow and Leonard Russell. The Cowboys selected Maryland #1 overall, and he helped anchor that defensive line during the Super Bowl years. Eric Swann was the only other D-lineman taken in the top 10 (#6), and Bobby Wilson was the next one taken at 17. It just wasn't looked at as a great draft for D-linemen in the top round, although Ted Washington ended up developing into an absolute monster against the run and Kelvin Pritchett managed to carve out a 14 year career in the league. With that sort of weakness in the D-Line, it's not really a surprise that the Browns looked somewhere else at #2.

Interestingly, Dan McGuire and Todd Marinovich were the top 2 QBs in that draft, and the weakness at that position also helped to shape the draft. Had either of them been worth a damn, the Patriots might well have kept the pick and drafted a QB, thereby giving Belichick his defensive lineman at #2 overall.

[htismaqe]

The Quote wasn't Verbatim but they were exact and it was after OnTheWarPAth posted.

ROFL

Verbatim defined means "in those exact words; word for word" according to Webster.

So they weren't verbatim, but they were exact?

Seriously, you gotta try harder than this.

Besides, both of those posts are from me.

[Pablo]

Whoops it didnt copy the other dipshitAh, if only I were smart enough to copy and paste the exact same paragraph twice as evidence of similarity.

But, I'm just a dipshit.

[htismaqe]

Yes, and Turner was an All Pro.

1991 was the Russell Maryland year, when the Patriots traded the #1 overall to the Cowboys and ended up with Pat Harlow and Leonard Russell. The Cowboys selected Maryland #1 overall, and he helped anchor that defensive line during the Super Bowl years. Eric Swann was the only other D-lineman taken in the top 10 (#6), and Bobby Wilson was the next one taken at 17. It just wasn't looked at as a great draft for D-linemen in the top round, although Ted Washington ended up developing into an absolute monster against the run and Kelvin Pritchett managed to carve out a 14 year career in the league. With that sort of weakness in the D-Line, it's not really a surprise that the Browns looked somewhere else at #2.

Interestingly, Dan McGuire and Todd Marinovich were the top 2 QBs in that draft, and the weakness at that position also helped to shape the draft. Had either of them been worth a damn, the Patriots might well have kept the pick and drafted a QB, thereby giving Belichick his defensive lineman at #2 overall.

Tedd Washington was drafted at the end of the 1st round, like most of the good 3-4 NT's.

[htismaqe]

Whoops it didnt copy the other dipshit

Well get it done then.

No excuses.

[Titty Meat]

I tried to past OnTheWarPaths comment and it said "The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 1 characters."

[The Bad Guy]

I bet Billay wears a white t-shirt covered in pizza grease, with a gold chain that comes down near his belly button and a pair of zubaz pants whenever he posts on the Planet.

[Pablo]

I tried to past OnTheWarPaths comment and it said "The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 1 characters."Seriously billay. You've been a member of this board for 2 years and you can't work this out for us?

[Titty Meat]

Seriously billay. You've been a member of this board for 2 years and you can't work this out for us?

I didnt post on here til like Febuary

[Titty Meat]

I bet Billay wears a white t-shirt covered in pizza grease, with a gold chain that comes down near his belly button and a pair of zubaz pants whenever he posts on the Planet.

Dude be nice or ill report you!

[Pablo]

I bet Billay wears a white t-shirt covered in pizza grease, with a gold chain that comes down near his belly button and a pair of zubaz pants whenever he posts on the Planet.He also wears a Nebraska Starter jacket with mad half zips and a pouch pocket yo. The 90's were sick! Pogs, Sammy Kershaw, Budweiser commercials and NEBRASKA FOOTBALL.

[htismaqe]

I tried to past OnTheWarPaths comment and it said "The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 1 characters."

Go to his post. Then go to your browser address bar and copy the URL and paste it here.

I will go to the thread, get his comments, and paste them here.

How does that sound?

[htismaqe]

I bet Billay wears a white t-shirt covered in pizza grease, with a gold chain that comes down near his belly button and a pair of zubaz pants whenever he posts on the Planet.

They weren't verbatim, but they were exact.

ROFL

[Titty Meat]

They weren't verbatim, but they were exact.

ROFL

They werent word for word but you made the same comment about out of position in zone coverage as he did.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You said the same thing he did verbatim. And OnTheWarPath don't bitch about getting made fun of in a thread. When I cracked on your wife you ran to the mods.

The Quote wasn't Verbatim but they were exact and it was after OnTheWarPAth posted.



So, which is it?

[Titty Meat]

So, which is it?

Well I was wrong about them being verbatim but he did echo the same comment you made after you had posted.

[DaneMcCloud]

The Quote wasn't Verbatim but they were exact

LMAO

[Just Passin' By]

Tedd Washington was drafted at the end of the 1st round, like most of the good 3-4 NT's.

Washington developed into his position, being drafted in 1991 but not reaching Pro Bowl status until 1997. Unlike a guy like Ngata or Wilfork, he took time. He didn't start any games as a rookie, and only started 6 in his second season, while Ngata has been a starter from day 1 and Wilfork started at the end of his rookie season (6 games, then all 16 the following season). That sort of projected development delay gets added into the mix when you're looking at draft position, especially now, in the modern NFL world of free agency and salary cap. My point was just that it's not surprising the Belichick looked to a safety at #2, given how weak the top prospects were considered to be at defensive line and linebacker in that draft.

Also, just for the record, two of the best 3-4 NTs right now, Jenkins and Williams, were both second round picks. As with pretty much every position, gems get missed and stiffs get drafted high.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They werent word for word but you made the same comment about out of position in zone coverage as he did.

This HAS to be the post he's talking about, and nowhere did I say anything about zone coverage.

No argument there, he's been a better tackler.

But he is often out of position, or takes himself out of the play by taking bad angles - the same shit we rode Pollard's ass for.

Brown's a fucking vet. If he hasn't learned by now, he's not going to.

Wow, that sure looks EXACTLY like what Parker posted.

Fucking windowlicker.