NFBT-The MO Senate Race-The worst case of explotation

[ColoradoChief]

Well it's official, the widow of the recently deceased popular governor of MO, who was runnning for the US Senate at the time of his death, will take his place in the Senate IF he wins the election on 11/7. Some people think this is a brilliant move, perhaps it is if all you care about is winning. I call it the worst case of explotation of a tragedy that I've ever seen.

Prior to the accident, Mr. Carnahan trailed by a point or two. Now the polls indicate that Mrs Carnahan will easily win the race. So the conclusion is, people are saying they're going to vote based on sympathy and out of a need to "honor" the fallen governor.

We have no idea whether Mrs. Carnahan would make a good senator or not. She has never held a public office. She, by all accounts, was an outstanding first lady, but she has absolutely NO record as an elected official.

Is this where we have come to in America? Electing a person based on sympathy rather than their qualifications? No wonder so much of our electorate is turned off when political parties stoop to sleazy practices.

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Gary

[ColoradoChief]

Sorry Guys, I normally try to stay away from NFBT's, but I just couldn't stay quiet on this one. I'm absolutely outraged at what lenghts some people will go to in the name of politics.

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Gary

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

yeah, that's pretty low, IMHO. Doesn't she need to grieve? How could she possibly make a decision of such magnitute just having lost her husband and son 2 weeks ago? If I were voting in MO, there is NO way I'd vote for her based upon what information we know.

[htismaqe]

What's even worse than not being qualified, is that she won't be her own woman. She didn't come up with this strategy; at best, she aquiessed when party members came to her and said, "you have to do this."

Who will be calling the shots for that Senate seat? The electorate will never know.

Luz
would like to hear a reasonable explanation of why someone should vote for her...<BR>

[ColoradoChief]

It is good that we are asking these questions, because if the incumbent Senator did, he would be absolutely crucified for doing so.

Before I go any further, let me state, I absolutely have complete and totally sympathy and compassion for Mrs. Carnahan. The tragedy she has suffered is unimaginable for most of us.

With that being said, I do not believe that is a valid reason for picking a United States Senator. Building a monument for the fallen governor or naming a building after him, etc, may be the proper way to honor him, but casting a vote for grieving his widow is NOT.

This whole sorry sordid mess makes me embarrassed to be from MO.

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Gary

[AustinChief]

FIgures - I hope the same people who made this decision never decide that my surgeon's wife is qualified to operate on me in the event of his death.

[BroncoFan]

I'm with gh on the embarassed part. This whole mess is sickening. The worst part is; it looks like the people of Missouri are going to fall for it. Just to make sure the people of Missouri don't forget about this before the election, the acting governor (small g intended) has appealed to everyone that the rules of etiquitte for flying the American flag be thrown out the window. He has stated that the normal period of flying the flag at half staff for seven days after such a death be extended to 30 days. (??????)

Word has it that Mr Ashcroft will challenge this in court if it is successful in it's attempt to unseat him. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[ColoradoChief]

I have to disagree with Ashcroft a little on that part Kurt. If he loses, I think he just needs to take his loss because I don't think anything can be gained by going to court. I don't think the Democrats have done anything illegal, sleazy perhaps, but not illegal.

On the flag issue, kind of amazing how that was extended through election day, isn't it?

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Gary

[darkchief]

I think the fact that she has never held any public office is a good thing. Mrs Carnahan is not a politician, therefore it is possible that she is an honest respectable person, unlike all the other Senators she may have to work with. If she wins, good for her. The way this board thinks, I doubt she would receive any criticism if she was a Republican.

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It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

[ColoradoChief]

It's not about her party Mizzou5, it's about how this is being played. We will not be treated to how good she is, her views etc. No what we're going to hear is how we should vote for her to keep her husband's legacy alive. It's pure exploitation of her husband's death, pure and simple. THAT is sleazy politics regardless of the party she is from.



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Gary

[darkchief]

I think the real problem lies with the people who give her the sympathy vote. She shouldn't be voted for just because her husband died, but I don't think Ashcroft should win just because there's noone else to vote for.

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It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

[ColoradoChief]

I will agree with you on that Mizzou5. Unfortunately a lot of voters are sheep. The polls prior to his death pretty consisently showed this to be a 1 point lead by Ashcroft all summer long, but it was really too close to call. Now they show a huge lead for Carnahan, and he's not even alive to take the seat. Translation, the voters are basing their decision strictly on sympathy, compassion, and a feeling they need to honor Governor Carnahan.

What troubles me about this situation is, the Democratic party handpicked a candidate for NO OTHER REASON than to generate sympathy and thus manipulate the voters.

Of course I realize, these are polls not the actual votes. Who knows what will happen in 7 days. But what we're seeing now, is not democracy at it's best, it's partisan politics at it's abousolute worst.

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Gary

[This message has been edited by gh4chiefs (edited 10-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by gh4chiefs (edited 10-31-2000).]

[shakesthecat]

I completely agree that this may be the most exploitive move in the history of American politics. She is going to be nothing but a puppet used by the Democratic party. And worse than that, we have no idea of exactly who will be pulling her strings. But the overall tragedy of it all, is the impression of this state, as it will be perceived by the rest of the nation. The electorate of Missouri will be looked upon as mindless boobs, manipulated by the Democratic party.

[ColoradoChief]

Yeah I hadn't thought about that kcred. Can you imagine the material Letterman and Leno are going to get out of this?

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Gary

[shakesthecat]

I live in Tennessee, and my 74 yr old neighbor, albeit a Republican, ask me yesterday, how the people in Missouri could be dumb enough to fall for this. I could not give him a substantive answer.

[ColoradoChief]

I don't know either kcred but you would be absolutely AMAZED at the number of people who have told me they are voting for the deceased candidate and are PROUD of it.

As I said earlier, this is embarrassing.

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Gary

[Gracie Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> I don't think the Democrats have done anything illegal, sleazy perhaps, but not illegal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not that the Dems' move is illegal, but there are a number of governance questions to be asked in this situation.
1. Does a vote for Carnahan count? Not to be crude, but he no longer conforms to consitutional requirements to hold office. When are those qualifications measured? When the name is placed on the ballot? At election time? At inauguration?
2. What grants the governor the power to name a replacement? His position as governor? His position as titular head of the Missouri Democrat party? If it's the former, is a governor constrained to make a "party appointment?" i.e. Ashcroft had died instead, then won the election, could Carnahan have appointed himself senator?

[ColoradoChief]

I'm not sure how to answer question #1 JC-Johnny, but I can attempt to answer #2. By MO law, the governor appoints a Senator anytime there is a vacancy. In this case it was too late to remove Carnahan's name from the ballot. The Senate convenes on 1/3/2001. If he wins, obviously the seat is vacant and the governor at that time will appoint someone to fill the seat. The current governor's term doesn't expire until 1/8/2001. Therefore the lt governor who now is the governor will make the pick.

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Gary

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

Mizzou,

I had no idea of the woman's party affilication and I believe that was intentionally left out. I lean to the right and was apalled regardless of her party. I just found out prior to posting this that she is democrat....

[Devin Vierth]

It is my understanding, at least in Illinois, the dead can only vote, they can't hold office. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

I am not sure if the State of Missouri is like that or not. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

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bk

[Gracie Dean]

Yes, but what, if any, are the guidelines for that pick? I'm sure they are codified, probably in the state constitution. I just haven't had time to read up.


BTW - more than sympathy is driving this recent swing. Carnahan was a universally likeable guy, whip smart, and dedicated. But he blended in so much to the landscape, be it at a party, in a speech, or in conversation, that he got a "milquetoast" reputation. Ashcroft is whip smart as well, but is quite cold, insulated and authoritarian. He's also fairly dogmatic in his beliefs.
I'm sure I'll get some who disagree, but Ashcroft has a personality and approach that can engender partisan support or ideological support, but cannot as easily support personal affection.
The events following Carnahan's death reminded people that, partisan issues aside, he was a likeable and loyal guy who did the little things. When he talked to you, he was genuinely interested in what you had to say, and it wasn't just about the votes. The past couple of weeks has awakened in a portion of the populace a realization that supporting [or honoring] Carnahan's way of dealing with people was more important than partisan platforms.

[ColoradoChief]

The trouble is Johnny, just because we are getting Carnahan's widow, we have no way of knowing for sure that we'll get "his way of dealing with people."

I know other widows have stepped into their husband's seat. The one of most note recently was Sonny Bono's widow. However, I reject the notion that just because you are married to someone, that you are capable of doing their job, the same way they would.

Let me put it this way. If you were scheduled for heart surgery to be performed by a gifted heart surgeon, and the surgeon died 3 weeks prior to your surgery, would you allow the spouse to operate on you out of some kind of feeling of sympathy or to honor the surgeon? I think not (unless of course the spouse was a gifted surgeon in their own right) In this case, we do not know if Mrs. Carnahan is a "gifted surgeon."

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Gary

[This message has been edited by gh4chiefs (edited 10-31-2000).]

[BroncoFan]

Mel Carnahan was a supporter to the end of partial birth murder. He was also VERY active and did everything in his power to see to it that LAW ABIDEING citizens of the state of Missouri were not allowed to protect themselves, their property or their loved ones via firearm while outside their home.

He WAS NOT the saint that he has been played up to be (none of us are.) I feel sympathy for his widow, however, if what the left wing ex-tree-mists say is true, (that she can do the job because she was married to him) I for sure want no part of her.

[TEX]

Wow, I should have known this was coming.

Jean Carnahan is an articulate woman, an accomplished author and orator who has been surrounded by public service all her life. This is simply a sad case of misogyny..... if this were a female senator whose death we were mourning, no one would have a problem nominating her widower to replace her.
Jean Carnahan may indeed may be a grieving widow, but that does not make her any less competent to fill this office.

Mark

[mikey23545]

I have no idea about Jean Carnahan's qualifications, but I do know I am up to over a dozen notes poking fun at the state I grew up in.

One can only hope that the polls are a result of wishy-washy people not wanting to look callous to a pollster, and the results will change once the actual votes are cast.

Latest one, So--You are from Missouri, the Show Me State? What does that mean, Show me a dead guy and I'll vote for him? <G>

This one from none other than a media member in the midwest.