Stooge or Savant? You make the call.

[alanm]

Okay, here we are at the halfway point. We have seen atrocious coaching [Titans, Raiders 1] and good coaching [Chargers 1, Rams].

So what is the verdict on our coaching staff? As I recall, there was nearly universal condemnation of them in the preseason. Most of us wanted the Three Stooges fired and a lot of us were willing to see Gunther go in order to get rid of the Three.

Here's my grade card:

1. STC Stock. F. Complete disaster on coverage and blocking schemes and execution. The only good spot on Special Teams is Sauerbrun and I suspect that Stock will find a way to ruin him if left at it long enough. Dump him.

2. DC Schottenehiemer. D. He avoids a failing game because he has a bunch of rookies on his squad and he did a great job against the Rams. On the other hand, he is responsible for losing two winnable games [Titans & Raiders 1] because of his lack of spine. Two words: soft zone. Dump him.

3. OC Raye. INCOMPLETE. I truly cannot figure this man out. Is he a good OC who has been handcuffed by four different HCs? At certain times in the game, I could believe that. Then he reverts to the brain dead, predictable play calling that led me to dismiss him in the first place. The evidence here is conflicting. I would have to know who the candidate for replacement is before voting for his removal, but I do not feel confident with him in the skybox.

4. HC Cunningham. C. Another split decision. On the one hand, he is playing the rookies, has the Chiefs playing as a team and I like his 'tude. On the other hand, he still makes inexplicable decisions concerning RBbC and allows the Coordinators to screw up during the game and criticizes them afterwards. His public statements are simply not trustworthy anymore. Keep him, but get him a new Coodinating staff.

xoxo~
gaz
surprised to be abstaining on Raye.<BR>

[Coogs]

Gaz,

I am totally shocked as well with your civil comments of JRaye. I truly expected better judgement from you re. the biggest stooge on the coaching staff. Yes, at times he seems to pull his head out, but the inexplicable and undeniable FACT that he is prone to put it back in like a frightened turtle or ostridge(sp?) ruins his rep in my eyes. JRaye MUST the first to go, IMHO.

So, Raye gets a D in my gradebook.

Kurt gets a C-, but is currently on 'double-secret probation'. If he reverts back to soft zone, prevent this Sunday, HE IS TOAST!!!

I give Stock a C, much like Raye, some improvement in a couple games, but not near enough to be retained next season. If I honestly thought it wouldn't RUIN our ST to fire him right away, I would if given the authority to do so.

Matter of fact, I'd fire all three NOW!!! And Gun is on very shaky ground for me as well. He does seem to be learning, but much too slowly.

ct

[Tom_Barndts_Twin]

gaz...how's the un-deviated septum doing?
sec

[tooln]

Gaz-

I agree on Stock. Can't get rid of him soon enough.

I am really confused by the dynamic between Gunther and his OC and DC. I do think Gunther has kept Raye handcuffed during a good bit of the last two seasons. At the end of the Raider game, just before the last KC offensive play, they showed a shot of Raye in the skybox, taking off his head set, throwing his pencils. Clearly he was frustrated at someone or something. Wasted time outs on the challenges? Collapse of the defense? Or the reappearnce of the leash for most of the second half?

Yet if Gun is laying a heavy hand on the offense, why in the heck has he allowed so much soft zone on defense? If he is screwing up the offense, then logically he is responsible for the defensive philosophy as well. I really question how much good it will do to bring in new coordinators so long as Gun is the main man. If Gun is serious about his new philosophy of attaching on both sides of the ball for the full 60 minutes then I would keep him and also Raye, who I think will do fine without the leash. Schott should be dumped for a more aggressive DC that better matches the D philosophy that Gun used when he was a DC. I really question Schot's credentials to hold that position.

[WarPaint]

I've come around on the coaching staff. First, I am of the opinion that Gunther has a heavy role in the general philosophy of our O and D. That being said, my grades:

Raye: B+. When given the green light he showed that he can come up with an aerial attack that rivals the Rams. Alexander, Gonzo and Morris could all have over 900 yards receiving. He is hampered by the club's refusal to bring in a legitimate HB, or even a decent sized runner with speed to turn the corner.

Kurt: B. People forget how many youngsters we have at DB. Coupled with all of the injuries on our line, I think Kurt is doing a pretty good job. If you want to play youth, you have to simplify some things and expect them to get beaten occassionally.

Stock: D. Special teams are way too inconsistent. Really poor coverage.

Gunther: C. He waffles too much in his approach to each game.

[alanm]

seclark-

I still have some random drippage from the nether depths of my skull, but I can breathe better now than I can ever recall. It was well worth the week of recovery time. Thanks for asking.

xoxo~
gaz
breathing like a maniac.<BR>

[DoktorSmith]

Stock gets an F...plain and simple...the coverage units would have to hold the opposing teams no return yardage for the rest of the year for me to change his grade...he is terrible...at either coaching, picking his players, or motivating them...or all three.

Kurt...gets a C-...he brought up his GPA with the last two games...if he keeps up the aggressive style, he might be up to B by the end of the year....

Raye...C+...while his running plays lack any hing at imagination...his play calling in the passing game has been outstanding...still lacks imagination in all phases though...just because you can't run doesn't mean you shouldn't try and get the ball to TRich...

Gun...B-...he has the team winning...he is playing rookies...he has done what Marty couldn't do and that is get "chunks"....but he says some of the most confusing things I ever heard...maybe because he doesn't get enough sleep and besides any one who has to walk around the sidelines sniffing smelling salts doesn't deserve an A....


------------------
joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

[Iron Chef]

Stock - my opinion hasn't changed in 2+ years. He rates an F-. Peterson took care of his kicking and punting woes, but the coverage and return units are still terrible. That is where a coaches schemes make the most impact, and we have none! Have not seen a single lane develop on any of our returns this year.

Raye - Past two seasons gave him an F-. This year give him a B-. Raye is oppening up this offense and getting TDs instead of field goals. Basically doing it without a hint of a running game. Would give him a higher grade if he bit the bullet and let Moreau be our feature back. He has more speed and power than Anders, and lets face it...Anders may be better at letting blocking develop, but it just ain't happening. Put a runner in that can create for themselves.

Shotty - Gave him a C for past performence. Will continue to do so because he has done a great job with 3 starting rookies and numerous injuries to defensive line. He does not get a higer grade because of the melt downs against the Titans and Raiders. We completely gave away those games by being timid.

Gun - B...He has 5 rookies making an impact this season. Tait is almost the equivalent of a rookie. We had lots of questions going into this year, and we are currently 5/3 after a killer first half schedule. Gun doesn't get an A because we could and should have won the Raider and Titans game, and he has to take some blame for our timid play in final portions of those games.

Peterson A++++ Supposedly a "transition year" and team is getting younger and playing competitive football!

[shakesthecat]

I am not going to assess each position of our coaching staff. This one statement would take care of all. At season's end, FIRE Gunther, and do not hire from within. The new coach, would bring in his own coordinators. I am fed up with his two faced approach to the game, I do not believe he has a clue, as how to game plan for an opponent. We now have the weapons, just need the direction.

[Warrior5]

Stock: F. Reasons have been given by others.

Schottenheimer: D-. Without Gun's input, our defense would be pathetic! We'd be giving up 500 yards and 40 points a game playing that soft zone that cost us 2 games this year. The main bright spot this season on D is the play of the front 4. They are getting real pressure on opposing QBs despite injuries. Otherwise KS would fail also.

Raye: B. I never knew whether our offensive offense was due to Raye's ineptitude or Gun's stubborness. I feel pretty sure now that Gun was at fault. Now that the leash has been removed we are putting guys in motion, creating mismatches, gaining 'chunks' and scoring points. As has been pointed out, this is being done in the absence of a running game. Who'd have thought JR could do it! I guess if you look back he has co-ordinated some good offense in the past too (the second half of '98 under Marty and at times last year). The difference now is that the consistency seems to be there. There are probably a bunch of coaches around the league that could do it this well or better, but I'm giving credit where it's due.

Gunther: B-. It would certainly be a C, but for the St. Louis game. That was phenomenal game-planning and coaching. And all it took was gutsy and aggressive play-calling on both sides of the ball. Gun is playing rookies and coaching with abandon (at times). If he could only make changes sooner he'd be getting an A (and we'd be 6-2 or 7-1!).

[The-Chief]

Please keep all of them...

[Lurker Brett]

Here are my midterm grades for the boys:

Stock - F For all the reasons listed below he should be gone next year, if not before.

Raye - B- While the offense has opened up we still cannot define any kind of running game. I think it deals with the style of running. It seems to me most of our running plays are right up the butt, with Grbac taking 3 steps back to hand off the ball. As much as I like Kimble it doesn't look to me that he has the speed. We need to develop a few new kinds of runs, outside the tackles or something. And most importantly give 20-22 carries to somebody else.

Kurt - C- To me penalties are just as much the coaches fault as the players. How many times can the Dline jump offside? Everyone has pointed out the soft zone debacle, Kurt can change his grade to a B if he has dumped it for good.

Gun - C+ This is Gun's team and he needs to make the coaches come up with game plans that will work. This means seeing the obvious things the rest of us do and forcing change down the team's throat. Gun seems to be able to adapt, but only after he reads this board and listens to what we have to say. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif He should be able to figure this stuff out on his own.

[Boise_Chief]

This topic is as redundant as pacfan's posting.

If anyting needs evaluating it is the players, they decide the outcome of games.
Coaching is important in high school and college but the NFL is full of professional football players who basically understand the game.Games are decided more often by speed,strenth and athletic ability rather than coaching.

------------------
CHIEFS

[htismaqe]

Best-in-West,

Although I can certainly see your point, in the context of this discussion, I have to respectfully disagree.

Coaching decides the strategy of our offense and defense.

I think, for the most part, our gameplanning has stunk.

It is getting better, but it still has a tendency to disappoint.

Luz
attack, attack, and then attack again...

[chief_red_pants]

IMO, fire all of them. I have seen some success this year and that just makes me realize what we were capable of last year. For it to take Gun 20 games to realize that RBbC was hurting our team is disgusting. To not even bring in competition for Stoyanovich in camp and then release him after 4 kicks(2 misses) is criminal. To not even be able to judge the talents and coach a KICKOFF SPECIALIST is the epitome of ineptitude. Watching Elvis and Co. this year just proves it wasnt the assembled talent.

[redbrian]

Right now the Chiefs have one of the best scoring offenses in the NFL. The running game is awful, but that's because of a lack of talent & the absence of Szott, IMO.

The defense is inept against the run, and is still forced into a shell twice as often as the offense.

The special teams unit is horrible.

Raye is clearly the best coordinator in KC. Whether he should be kept of not depends on who's available, IMO.

[alanm]

Lets take the Oakland game for example.

The DC made the decision to play the soft zone against the best dinkdunk QB in the NFL. As a result, Gannon completed passes underneath our coverage all day long. Also as a direct result of the DC's decision, there were no LBs available for run support [they were dropping back into the DC's soft zone]. As a result, the HBs gained considerable yardage.

Is that the fault of the players or of the scheme called by the DC?

xoxo~
gaz
wishes the players would rebel against the soft zone and call their own D against the Raiders.<BR>

[alanm]

Clint-

I agree with you. At this moment, Raye is the best Coordinator in KC.

xoxo~
gaz
never would have expected to type those words.<BR>

[Baby Lee]

With all things being equal ie: Having the best athletes. Since we haven't cornered the market in that area yet, I guess having the best coaches will have to suffice. And we haven't cornered the market in that area either. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[The Blessed Virgin Larry]

Gaz,
I am in agreement with all your grades. IMHO, Stock is a complete FAILURE (is ther anything lower than an F?) and should get the boot at season's end. I'm also for booting Kurt. My reason? Gun can run the defense. Offensive minded coaches run their own offense - Gun can do it. My guess is he has already stepped in.

I'm as confused as you when it comes to our Offensive Coordinator formely knows as Jimmy "3-Play Raye". The fact that the offense has shown a dramatic improvement in the passing game, weather it was by default or not, makes me give Raye the benefit of the doubt. That being said, I'd keep Ray. Wow, I can't believe I said that!

My opinion on Gun is he's a KEEPER on pure guts and passion alone! I know he says a lot of stupid stuff, but his intentions are good. I'd much rather have him at my side going into battle than Marty! Putting all the emotional stuff aside, Gun has gotten good results EVERY time he has become more involved with an aspect of the team. In addition, I can see this team taking on a DIFFERENT appearance than any Chiefs team of the past 20 years. Gun said he had a "vision" of his team and I LIKE what I see! IMHO, Gun has the potential to be mentioned in the same breath as Hank Stram, meaning I nelieve that he will win a Super Bowlif given te same amount of time that Marty had. Now, if he could only have a talk with Mike Stock and get that STUD RB!!

[Mi_chief_fan]

Stock: Pack his bags. Run him outa KC on a rail. Buy him a coach ticket. Ship him out. Let Maslowski run STs.

Schott: I'll wait 'til after Sunday's game before I repeat my call for DE to run D from the field. He'd better attack, attack, attack, or...

Raye: He's trying. He was really down on himself after the Seattle game. Seems like he has truly repented. And keep Richardson and Anders in the backfield!

Heal Grunny, HEAL!

UPSET THE RAIDERS!!!

[CarolinaChief]

Raye is getting the job done. DA isn't getting open by accident!

------------------
GO PITT!

[redshirt32]

A question here brought about by the comment to grade the players:

Is everyone surprised by the play of Victor Riley this year? As much as I hate to ever agree with Whitlock, he has a point about the fact that Riley is playing better than all of us expected.

Your thoughts?

mmaddog
***********

[milkman]

My grades to this point:

Stock: D. A big part of our giving up big return yardage on punts is Sauerbrun continuing tendancy to out-kick the coverage, just like he did in Chicago. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif You can't hang that completely on Stock. Of course, you'd think he'd do something about it eventually. Its also not his fault that our field goal kickers choke at the moment of truth, and not his fault that we waited so long to can Stoyscumovich or bring in Peterson, who looks like a bust so far. However, I wanted him gone at the start of the season and I still do.

Schottenheimer: F, as in get the F#ck out! We have way too much talent on defense to be getting manhandled the way we are. Christopher Reeve could run on us. I hope Marty takes a coaching job SOON and takes useless little tag-along brother with him. This guy's a bum.

Raye: Hmm, at the start of the season I wanted him dead, but now I agree he's the best of the bunch, at least sometimes. He seems to have inflatable balls. When they are inflated, he gets an A. When they are deflated, he gets a D. The biggest change in KC football is the fact that our O now bails out our D more often than not, which is spooky and unsettling, but in a good way. If he continues to call Rams-type games, I'm with him. If not, hit the road.

GUN: B-, and I'm being a bit kind here. Love his drive and heart and desire to win, but question his methods. Overall he's done okay. He mainly needs to take a more active roll on defense and keep the cuffs off Raye with the offense. Beating the crap out of Stock would be nice, too.

------------------
Frazod

CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AND HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF DENISE! DEATH TO OAKLAND!

[htismaqe]

Warrior5,

Where did you see/read/hear that Raye was down on himself?

Luz
i'd like to know more about that...

[Fat Homer]

Stock: F - you cannot blame the poor coverage & returns on personnel! At least, not if they continually screw up! It is the coordinators job to get the players ready... to make sure everyone knows their assignments - and to get in the faces of those who screw up. It's his job to correct mistakes; he's not doing that (heck, he never DID!).

Kurt: F - he actually called Gunther to ask whether he should/could run certain blitz packages DURING A GAME! No spine = no job!

Raye: B - the guy has implemented a passing attack that works. Our receivers are running good routes & are getting open. Grbac is hitting the receivers. This is the best passing game KC has had since Dawson! The only reason Raye doesn't warrant an A: inexplicable reversion to conservative 'up the gut' series. I don't know if he's trying to sell the run for later drives or what; he needs to cut those out!

Gun: C - He has the passion & drive... but I tend to think he's out of his league. He talks out of his arse & babbles in press conferences. The guy is the ULTIMATE motivator, but a poor manager & strategist at times (his berrating his coordinators for failing to do their job goes to prove that. HE should take the responsibility for not setting them straight DURING a game!) If Gun keeps on his coordinators when they start slipping, he won't have to 'dress them down' afterwards.

[Fat Homer]

IMHO, our team is 5-3 because of our PERSONNEL. This is the deepest & most threatening receiver corps KC has had in, well, forever. Our guys have been successful in spite of poor coaching. We've been holding these guys back - we need to let them play! They will make mistakes - don't reign them! Let them keep playing. We opened things up; we had a 'killer instinct' vs San Diego, St Louis, the 1st half of Seattle(2), and the 2nd quarter of Oakland. The St Louis & San Diego games were the only ones where we kept 'pouring it on'. If our coaching staff will let our players continue at THAT pace, we'll be a very successful & dangerous team! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Cannibal]

Well, Gun gives the team a B at this point:
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/sports.pat,sports/3774e1de.a31,.html

I will give us a C-. There is no reason we should not be 7-1 right now. Gun acnowledges this. Coaching has been part of the problem, but guys have to execute in the clutch in close games too. No fumbles, no dropped balls, no INT's, etc.

The good thing is he is putting some pressure on the Special teams and Mike Stock to step it up. "We need the special teams to stand up and play." Every time he's said this and guys have not performed, heads have rolled. So either Mike Stock will get that unit playing better, or we're going to hear an offseason speech by Gun after he fires Stock about how Stock is a good coach but he "ran out of time."

[ddpatterson]

I still want The Three Stooges fired.
ST. I agree with Frazod, that part of the problem on coverage is Sauerbrun's tendency to outkick coverage. However, coverage schemes seem to be lacking when he doesn't outkick, and Dante Hall hasn't anyplace to run on returns.
One other thing to consider. During the latter part of last season and the early part of this season, Stoyanovich couldn't connect on FG attempts of 35 or longer. Gets picked up by Stl and hits FGs of 46 and 48 yards. Is it possible that he developed a flaw in his mechanics that was spotted by a good STC?
Schott. Shouldn't have to ask the boss how to do your job after a year on the job. And the boss shouldn't have to step in and make changes, even after you've already gone to him for help.
Raye. When did this offense begin to open up? After Grbac voices his opinion that it needed some changes, and he takes matters in his own hands and calls a number of audibles in the SD game. Raye should see the weapons and utilize them. He didn't. Elvis did. Think Gun was upset with Elvis? Raye lacks consistency and cahonies.

------------------

Red Eyes
Chinn Up.

[b]The SitCom must die!!</B>

[The Blessed Virgin Larry]

Da Wolf,
Thanks for the link. Interesting article. it is inded good to see that Gun is calling out the Special Teams. The finger is clearly pointed at Mike Stock - IMHO, exactly where it should be!