Have you ever built a house? Would you do it again? Any disaster stories?

[chris]

I will never build a house again.

We are 12 months into a project that was supposed to take 8. We've on our 2nd General Contractor (GC); and on our 3rd concrete sub-contractor.

We had heard of the horror stories from others about GCs and sloppy work. But we thought we could be different. We had previously done 3 major remodels; so how could building a house be that much harder?

We prepared well for this adventure. The architect spent 10 months designing the plans to great detail to ensure minimum change orders. Not a big house ; 1800 sq. ft.; contemporary in design.

Here are my observations:

--GCs don't believe in schedules or keeping deadlines. We ask when this or that will be done and not once has the deadline been made.

--Subs show up whenever they want. They will promise to be onsite; then don't show. The GC just shrugs his shoulders. Several Fridays, they have worked for 3-4 hours, then left to go fishing or go hunting. Then they look at you "Like what?".

--Rain days are a joke. If it's raining early in the AM; they take the whole day off. I asked the GC if they ever work late or on Saturday to catch up. He looked at me like I was crazy.

--GCs think they know how to build better than the architect......and don't bother to coordinate problems with her; they just do way they want and then argue that their way is better. Then they want a Change Order to fix it.

--Concrete walls are poured in the wrong place; doors are poured nonstandard size; yet the first GC argued with us when we demand the sub be fired and the GC eat the repair costs. He refused. Combined with his other errors; we made the decision to fire him too. Then he demanded we pay severance fee. We're suing to recover $15K of repair costs.

--Then the new concrete sub pours the 1st floor which is to be a certain color and finish. oops, applies the wrong finish technique. Not his fault he says. The way we wanted it, and drew it in the plans, was too hard to do. So the entire floor has to be grinded down and refinished. Both the GC and sub blame each other for the wrong troweling finish. Thus, 2nd concrete sub was gone. 3rd sub did a great job fixing the mess and pouring the remainder.

--Cost over-runs on fixed bid line items are not the GCs fault. We caught the 2nd GC trying to hide his $30K carpentry overrun in the excavating budget. Isn't that illegal?

-- They want to use their own subs regardless of expertise. I can understand that they want to use people they are comfortable with; but when we want new technologies used and the subs don't know how to use, the GCs argue that the old insulation or roofing materials are better.

--GCs low bid on line items; then strive to get Change Orders for overruns. Their markup increases from 7% to 10% on Change Orders.

So yes, I'm venting. If I ran my outsourcing company like this...I would be out of business. I'm ready to shoot the GC. What is the time in the Big House for a murder plea of temporary insanity?

What are your disaster stories? If there are any GCs or subs on CP, please share your perspective.

[DeezNutz]

Beautiful looking home.

All this bullshit will make for good stories over drinks once you're in the house and enjoying it.

[chris]

Beautiful looking home.

All this bullshit will make for good stories over drinks once you're in the house and enjoying it.

Thanks. Most locals look at it like it's a freak house. :)

When we were interviewing GCs, I would watch their eyes. If they widen, it was "next".

[Over-Head]

The good GC's are so booked up you can't even get them to talk to you.
Most of them already have their sub's in place, and 75% of the time will actually get things done.

OR
You get what i'm into now.
GC "A"
He has the IQ of a wet fart.
Been through more subs than I can count, and hasn't got a clue what professional courtousy is.. I started 6 weeks ago with 3 houses 2 months behind sched. I not only cought him back up, but am now waiting on his "reg subs" to come back and finish the stairs, trim, etc.
When things are good for him he walks around with his chest out barking orders...when it falls to shit he looks to everyone else to bail him out.
I've pulled 2 over nighters, and 4 Sat/Sun 12hr days just to see this fool micro manage him self right back to being a month behind again, and he made the mistake of going off on me Tuesday over something HE lied to me about then seemed to forget. I walked off the job for teh second time..
He got his registered letter today telling him to basically shove his 3, million dollar plus homes up his ass, and if i'm not paid by tomorrow close of business I drop liens on the places. (which I know will torpedo his company for good, he's in that bad of shape.)

On one house my "delay of progress" charge is MORE than the origional paint job. It don't take 6 weeks to build a stair case, especially when I told him the guy he's usuing has about the worst rep around the city for time lines even though he's probably one of the best in the provience for wood working..

Switch to GC "B"
Told me up front, due to problems beyond his control this is what he could do/pay now, with written terms guaranteeing my $$$ within 48hrs of this PRE-SOLD home closing. PLUS a bonus in writing if I pulled a merical and made his deadlines. (Wife is cashing the bonus cheque today as we speak)
. Told me his time line, even came in on a Sun to move 40 box's of mud/plaster for me. While he and his wife were out checking on properties. The few of us giving him a chance are more than happy with his professionalism.
But the bottom line is he followed my 3 rules
1-NEVER lie to me, tell me a bad truth, but lies get ya no where fast
2- Dont BS me, been around this business (off and on)for 32 years
3-NEVER screw with my $$$

You get all types in this buisness. And me being the "Sub" who generally spends more time than ahyone (save teh framers) in a house gets to know first hand who teh goons are, and who the guys are whon will actually pull off a "Holmes on Homes" for you.

I'm in the planning stages now of my own place, and WILL be the CG.
But in my case I'm NOT worried about time line, and want the guys I want, so I'll wait.
All my subbing will be compartmented to individual crews. ALL will have quotes and contracts, PLUS in writing will be the nifty little part of MY charging THEM for delay of progress if they hang me up.
Excavation
Framing to a weather tight shell (including evestroughing)
Electrical
Plumbing / heating
Gyproc and vapor barrier
Insulation
Trim and wood work including stairs
Interior finish taping/plaster and paint(Obviously doing that myself)

If ya want to build one yourself, best advice I can give is bvuy this book!!
http://www.amazon.ca/Make-Right-Mike-Holmes/dp/0002008130

[CrazyPhuD]

Does Building a Bird House count? That wasn't too bad I would definitely do it again!

[Amnorix]

I did build my first house, but it wasn't a nightmare. The GC owned the property, and there was no architect involved. It was a construction company who had several pre-set layouts -- pick one, then modify as desired. He managed all the subs, of course, and because they had alot of experience -- and because we had turnkey pricing and wouldn't buy the property at closing until construction was complete, it was alot easier.

I have heard alot of horror stories about construction along the lines you're describing, and "construction litigation" is an unfortunately active part of trial work for many lawyers. There are certainly many reference materials specific to the field.

One bottom line in life for me -- contractors in general suck, so if you find a good one, try to keep him at all costs. Most never call you back, dont' show up, show up late, obviously don't give a rat's ass, etc. etc. It's absolutely disgusting and beyond frustrating.

[Over-Head]

One bottom line in life for me -- contractors in general suck, so if you find a good one, try to keep him at all costs. Most never call you back, dont' show up, show up late, obviously don't give a rat's ass, etc. etc. It's absolutely disgusting and beyond frustrating.

AGREED!! 99% of em aint worth a pinch of coon shit. The ones that are, become a pleasure to work for. At the end of the day it's your "subs" who do the work, not the CG...and he's either the prick, or Prince we subs end up dealing with that you the home owner never know about.

[chris]

AGREED!! 99% of em aint worth a pinch of coon shit. The ones that are, become a pleasure to work for. At the end of the day it's your "subs" who do the work, not the CG...and he's either the prick, or Prince we subs end up dealing with that you the home owner never know about.

One of the best subs has been the dry wall company. Amazing. I think mudding is an art. I've tried several times and never could make it look right.

I've seen multi-million homes with bad jobs and it ruins the interior appearance.

[tooge]

Built one from scratch and did a major addition to the one we are currently in. Both were good experiences overall even though at the time, both were fairly stressfull. I think it is important to know two things. One, it will always cost more than the GC bids, and it will always take more time than they think. Most of this is due to weather and sometimes running into things like guys not showing up to work.

[seclark]

built the one we're living in now. didn't really have any problems, but we knew and were good friends w/the contractor.

would i do it again? i hope we don't have to.

sec

[suds79]

One of the best subs has been the dry wall company. Amazing. I think mudding is an art. I've tried several times and never could make it look right.

I've seen multi-million homes with bad jobs and it ruins the interior appearance.

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.

[Bump]

are all of the workers mexican?

[chris]

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.

optical illusion.

Windows in basement. Double set of windows on first floor with high ceilings. 2nd floor is small office with its own windows.

I think it is dumb for 2 people to have much more than that. One of my neighbors in park City, Utah bought a 6K ft house; then added 2.5K more for two adults and 2 small children, Another couple built a 13K ft house for themselves. Why? Just to show off?

[Amnorix]

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.


Looks like a ranch or raised ranch, with garage under. It's certainly unique. I'm not so much into modern, but I do approve of anything a bit out of the norm as there's nothing so boring as a block of houses that look exactly the same. There's one cul-de-sac in my home town with four houses that on their own would be fantastic, but they're all practically identical. Lame.

[chris]

are all of the workers mexican?

Interesting question.

Dry wall only. Separate crews to install; and to mud. As good as they did, I wish the concrete subs would have been speaking Spanish and cooling rice/beans in the microwave that they brought.

[Amnorix]

optical illusion.

Windows in basement. Double set of windows on first floor with high ceilings. 2nd floor is small office with its own windows.

I think it is dumb for 2 people to have much more than that. One of my neighbors in park City, Utah bought a 6K ft house; then added 2.5K more for two adults and 2 small children, Another couple built a 13K ft house for themselves. Why? Just to show off?

Agreed. The cost for upkeep (plus heat, etc.) increase dramatically the bigger the house gets, and most people don't use alot of it.

I really like the house we bought (our second house -- we built the first but not the second), but it's bigger than we really wanted. We couldn't find anything we liked better, however, and were in a time crunch, so we overbought, so to speak.

[chris]

Looks like a ranch or raised ranch, with garage under. It's certainly unique. I'm not so much into modern, but I do approve of anything a bit out of the norm as there's nothing so boring as a block of houses that look exactly the same. There's one cul-de-sac in my home town with four houses that on their own would be fantastic, but they're all practically identical. Lame.

Nicely done on the analysis.

Raised ranch with loft interior over buried basement/garage. 2/3 of main floor is open. Creates illusion of greater space.

[chris]

Agreed. The cost for upkeep (plus heat, etc.) increase dramatically the bigger the house gets, and most people don't use alot of it.

I really like the house we bought (our second house -- we built the first but not the second), but it's bigger than we really wanted. We couldn't find anything we liked better, however, and were in a time crunch, so we overbought, so to speak.

If there is a next time,, we will be smart like you and buy. :)

[Over-Head]

One of the best subs has been the dry wall company. Amazing. I think mudding is an art. I've tried several times and never could make it look right.

I've seen multi-million homes with bad jobs and it ruins the interior appearance. Agreed! Unfortunatly when us "mudders" walk in, the $$ is already gone from the project, and were the most haggeled down in terms of cost. So many doing it for cash, or as a second job, makes me sick!
Those who go with the cheapest guys for interior finishing are ALWAYS the first to bitch when they get a butcher job.
Much like the ones I just walked out on due to an asshat CG

[Groves]

You're building a Red Robin restaurant to live in?

[Mr. Plow]

Like most said....

Our GC only came by to check on progress a few times throughout the build, his subs were always late, never met a deadline, and typically worked max of 4 hours a day - most weeks only 2-3 days. Luckily for me, we lived with my parents during the build so I was able to monitor what was going on pretty closely. Help me catch a lot of mistakes that would have gone uncorrected.

He met the "overall" deadline - us being in the house - which is really all that mattered, but it just seemed like pulling teeth to get it to that point.

Would I build again? More than likely not. The stress that was involved, couple with the "after you move in" expenses....new yard, sprinkling system, etc....just made it an experience I'd rather not do again.

[Dave Lane]

You have room on top for an observatory like i'm having to retrofit now. So I approve. :thumb:

[Dave Lane]

And I've built a house with me as the GC and added on a couple thousand foot project. Over all I liked it a lot.

[tooge]

funny building a house story. My wife and I were trying to get pregnant at the time that we were finishing up our first house that we built. She calls me at work and says that today is the day that we have to "do it" since the temp was right, the planets all lined up, etc., etc. So, since we are living at her parents, she says lets meet at the new house. It wasn't done yet, but had carpet and trim completed. they were basically just ready to do touch up painting, and final cleaning prior to inspection and closing. So, she brings a blanket, I meet her there, and we go up to the room that is gonna be the nursery. Figured we needed all the mojo we could get after trying for three years. So were in the middle of some steamy sex, and we see someone pull into the driveway. It's the contractor with the cleaning lady and paint guy. They are coming to go over the last details. We scramble to our feet, I jam the blanket up into the attic through the closet, and we meet them downstairs acting like were just there checking the house out. I'm pretty sure they smelled sex or something cuz they were looking at us like we were nuts. Anyhow, wifey ended up prego from that.

[Phobia]

I'll admit, we suck a lot. Sometimes it's due to mistakes and incompetence. Sometimes its due to factors which are just the nature of the business. The construction industry is full of talented people who are addicted to one substance or another. Construction isn't incredibly profitable so many times you're left with bottom feeders.

But, I do the very best I can with the tools I have at my disposal. I don't cheat my clients and I'd rather take money out of my pocket than theirs. It's a challenging business for everybody, there's no doubt about that. If you still like your GC at the end of your project then he probably did a helluva job.

[tooge]

I'll admit, we suck a lot. Sometimes it's due to mistakes and incompetence. Sometimes its due to factors which are just the nature of the business. The construction industry is full of talented people who are addicted to one substance or another. Construction isn't incredibly profitable so many times you're left with bottom feeders.

But, I do the very best I can with the tools I have at my disposal. I don't cheat my clients and I'd rather take money out of my pocket than theirs. It's a challenging business for everybody, there's no doubt about that. If you still like your GC at the end of your project then he probably did a helluva job.

agreed

[Bill Lundberg]

I'll admit, we suck a lot. Sometimes it's due to mistakes and incompetence. Sometimes its due to factors which are just the nature of the business. The construction industry is full of talented people who are addicted to one substance or another. Construction isn't incredibly profitable so many times you're left with bottom feeders.

But, I do the very best I can with the tools I have at my disposal. I don't cheat my clients and I'd rather take money out of my pocket than theirs. It's a challenging business for everybody, there's no doubt about that. If you still like your GC at the end of your project then he probably did a helluva job.

In my limited experience this is so true. From the time I was 15 until I graduated college I worked every summer and school break for a very talented trim carpenter working on new homes. He had a crew of anywhere from 8 - 15 guys. I was the only one who hadn't been jailed and through rehab for drug abuse. He had a knack for finding guys with immense talent who were doing good at staying clean. He treated them well and for the most part they all stayed out of trouble and stayed with him for many many years.

Not to mention that Phobia guy can't stay away from the Diet Coke. Get help man!

[Phobia]

agreed

Or if you like your GC again several weeks after it's over. I know you and Mrs. Tooge were sick of seeing us at your property. She would say several times at the end, "Phil, I like you but you got to go."

[Otter]

funny building a house story. My wife and I were trying to get pregnant at the time that we were finishing up our first house that we built.

It probably would have saved you a lot of pain and humiliation if you've taken the time to read "How Babies are Made". Available on Amazon for $11.

[Phobia]

In my limited experience this is so true. From the time I was 15 until I graduated college I worked every summer and school break for a very talented trim carpenter working on new homes. He had a crew of anywhere from 8 - 15 guys. I was the only one who hadn't been jailed and through rehab for drug abuse. He had a knack for finding guys with immense talent who were doing good at staying clean. He treated them well and for the most part they all stayed out of trouble and stayed with him for many many years.

Not to mention that Phobia guy can't stay away from the Diet Coke. Get help man!

Heh - I just lost a kid last night. No idea what he did in Texas but he got pulled over last night and now he's be extradited down there. I'm a little frustrated about that too. He was just starting to get it.

[chris]

You have room on top for an observatory like i'm having to retrofit now. So I approve. :thumb:

We need Pictures!

[tooge]

Or if you like your GC again several weeks after it's over. I know you and Mrs. Tooge were sick of seeing us at your property. She would say several times at the end, "Phil, I like you but you got to go."

Well, I'd do it again. You guys did an amazing job. I'd rather it be amazing and take a few extra months than turn out crap and be on time. I gotta admit though, I was getting to the point that I would really rather have a beer with you than have to see you cuz of the job. I am envious of the patience you have to deal with the types of people that you have to deal with day to day, both workers and clients.

[Phobia]

Well, I'd do it again. You guys did an amazing job. I'd rather it be amazing and take a few extra months than turn out crap and be on time. I gotta admit though, I was getting to the point that I would really rather have a beer with you than have to see you cuz of the job. I am envious of the patience you have to deal with the types of people that you have to deal with day to day, both workers and clients.

Did you ever put a flat panel in that alcove over the bathtub? I really liked that element and wanted to take a dump while watching ESPN in your bathroom.

[tooge]

No, but we still plan to. right now she has pictures of all of our vacations and seashells in all those shelves. I do most of my dumpage in the basement, but that will change when we put the tv in the alcove

[Swanman]

I bought a home last June and had a complete basement remodel done (around 1500 sf). I put in a bar/rec room, workout room and theater. This was my first time dealing with the building industry and overall things turned out well, but did run into some issues.

- Fuckhead GC took over 6 weeks to get the construction estimate done, which put the job hopelessly behind schedule from the beginning. He also wanted to do the entire remodel without getting a permit, which should have been a red flag.

- GC essentially disappeared after work began so I had to deal with what I called the "head subcontractor" who was a dickhead as well.

- Contractors violated change order rules a few times with cost overruns. I was going through a theater design company, who stupidly paid the invoices and then came after me for that money.

- 90% of the subs spoke zero english, which I have a major problem with. I don't care if you don't speak much English, just be able to communicate on a base level in English.

- Most of the work turned out well, which it should have given it was fairly basic stuff overall (framing, drywall, electrical, hvac, paint). The one part they screwed me was on a bar that was in the contract. It was supposed to be a nice bar constructed out of plywood, but what I got was a hunk of shit thrown together from subfloor-grade plywood and maybe cost them $200 in materials at most. Unfortunately, the contract didn't have enough detail so they got away with it. I had some real carpenters come out and re-do that part, and they did a gorgeous job.

Overall I am real happy with the basement, other than the normal contractor BS detailed above. The theater design company really failed at dealing with the contractors (they took on the role of overall GC), they did a great job with the design and all of the electronic equipment for my theater.

[MOhillbilly]

The hobos build homes outta copier boxes. My boss threw a fit when the local news channel did a bit on the shanty town under the viaduct. Every box was one of ours.

[Brock]

Who are you to complain about GC's, they're business owners pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. Quit giving them a hard time and expecting them to do what they said they would.

[seclark]

The hobos build homes outta copier boxes. My boss threw a fit when the local news channel did a bit on the shanty town under the viaduct. Every box was one of ours.

isn't that free advertisement?
sec

[MOhillbilly]

isn't that free advertisement?
sec


Fuckin tight ass didnt see it that way.

[Over-Head]

isn't that free advertisement?
secLMAO:LOL::clap:

[Rain Man]

When I did our first remodel of a condo, we were combining two apartments into one condo. The realtor/owner/broker/investor had already hired the contractor, and our deal was that we could pick the finishes and monitor the construction. As we'd come over, we'd see things that weren't done right or that were stupid in design or something, and we'd mention it to the contractor. He'd say, "Oh yeah, no problem" and fix it.

We never assumed there were costs for these things because they all seemed cost neutral to us. It was stuff like, "The plaster on that wall shouldn't be bowed out like that", or "Can you put that outlet over here instead of over there?". At the closing we found out that they were billing the owner for all of those things as change orders. She never said a word and the contractor never said a word, but at closing she made some comment like "All those change orders cost me a fortune."

Now, I was a bit naive at the time so maybe some of these things did have costs, and we didn't know they did. But the contractor never hinted about extra costs, so we just assumed that it was a normal part of the process. Apparently not. But it was funny that he was apparently billing her out the wazoo and neither of them ever said a word to us.

[chris]

A friend built a McMansion and had 151 Change Orders! :(

We have 11 so for for ~$15K. Whenever the GC wants to add something that he failed to bid on in the orginial proposal, we say "Tough".

Change Orders are a contractor's friend!

[Phobia]

I don't do change orders unless I've already invested time and money into it. I can adapt and maneuver on the fly so our change orders are free or actual costs incurred. Change orders are a bunch of crap.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I'll rub some salt into the wound. In the last 8 months I've been turning this
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Into this:
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Obviously, with a bit more organization. 41 subcontractors, $6.5 mil.

[Phobia]

Who are you to complain about GC's, they're business owners pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. Quit giving them a hard time and expecting them to do what they said they would.

I agree with the sarcasm. But times are really tough right now. I used to get better than $50 a foot for a basement. Now I'm around $30. It's hard to be efficient when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to get stuff done right, cheap, and fast.

[doomy3]

Very cool house! I would love to see some pictures when you get done with it. Really interested to see photos of the inside and the flow of it.

[Amnorix]

Obviously, with a bit more organization. 41 subcontractors, $6.5 mil.

Looks like it's coming along great. What was it before, just warehouse space?

What's it going to be. Looks like two floors, obviously, and windows as well, so at least some office space. I'll take a guess and say office space on one side of the building and warehouse space on the other?

[ragedogg69]

My parents built their own home as owner builders with a gc acting as a consultant when i was eight. I know they went thru atleast two. I also remember one called my dad an asshole to his face. I don't remember it being fun times.

I work for a plumbing supply store while going back to school fora degree. Doing deliveries, so many times iwould see all the workers sitting around sleeping in the shade if the gc wasn't on site. There are alot of bad plumbers and contractors out there. Check the bbb and roc before you hire anyone. The Bbb is pretty lousy but it weeds out the worst of the worst.

Sent from my GTablet running CM7 using Tapatalk

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Looks like it's coming along great. What was it before, just warehouse space?

What's it going to be. Looks like two floors, obviously, and windows as well, so at least some office space. I'll take a guess and say office space on one side of the building and warehouse space on the other?

It used to be a hardened concrete building (12" reinforced concrete walls). It houses the headquarters of the 190th ARW Kansas Air National Guard at Forbes Field. It is 45,000sf, was one story above grade, and a basement, with the large tunnels leading to doors at basement level. It is now 2 story above grade. We gutted it to the structure, including removing everything above the upper floor slab, and tore down about 1/3 of the building on the one end. We then rebuilt everything back on the upper floor, increasing the roof heights and making peaked roof where it used to be flat. The 1/3 on the end is being rebuilt as a large auditorium (think movie theater). This is all LEED "green" construction, part of the reason we have so many subs. I have 5 flooring contractors alone - polished concrete, epoxy broadcast, epoxy painted, carpet, and vinyl tile. I'm about a month behind schedule right now, busting ass to get caught up.

[chris]

We fired the GC today.

3 reasons:

1) 10% over budget and refusing to continue working unless he was paid for the overage. Pulled his crew off Monday and gave us an ultimatum.
2) 7 weeks behind schedule.
3) Not paying his carpentry subs from as far back as March.

Any finishing carpenters wanting to work in Wisconsin for a few weeks> Great fishing in Lake Michigan? 70 to 80 degrees.

[Hoover]

Is that a Sonic or something?

JK

My wife and I built a house this year. 2000 sq ft ranch.

We didn't have any problems. Sure the subs were not dependable but my builder was just awesome. Now I think a lot of that was because I was on the job site twice a day, morning and night. I'd even come out during the day if he had questions.

In selecting my builder I actually talked to a number of bankers. They know who is on time, who stays on budget, and who does quality work. That was probably one of the best decisions that we made.

Do you think that building such a unique house might have added to your problems?

[chris]

Is that a Sonic or something?

JK

My wife and I built a house this year. 2000 sq ft ranch.

We didn't have any problems. Sure the subs were not dependable but my builder was just awesome. Now I think a lot of that was because I was on the job site twice a day, morning and night. I'd even come out during the day if he had questions.

In selecting my builder I actually talked to a number of bankers. They know who is on time, who stays on budget, and who does quality work. That was probably one of the best decisions that we made.

Do you think that building such a unique house might have added to your problems?


One of my friends who is also building a house was told last week not to visit the job site as contractor was tired of seeing the owner onthe site twice a day. What would you have said to that?


Good question. At the time of bidding, we asked him time and time again if he added padding to cover extras. He lied while trying to hide overage. that was the killer for him.

[Brock]

One of my friends who is also building a house was told last week not to visit the job site as contractor was tired of seeing the owner onthe site twice a day. What would you have said to that?


Good question. At the time of bidding, we asked him time and time again if he added padding to cover extras. He lied while trying to hide overage. that was the killer for him.

My response to that would be to start visiting 4 times per day.

[Hoover]

We fired the GC today.

3 reasons:

1) 10% over budget and refusing to continue working unless he was paid for the overage. Pulled his crew off Monday and gave us an ultimatum.
2) 7 weeks behind schedule.
3) Not paying his carpentry subs from as far back as March.

Any finishing carpenters wanting to work in Wisconsin for a few weeks> Great fishing in Lake Michigan? 70 to 80 degrees.

I had it in writing that the builder would stick to a certain price. However I also paid for any upgrade out of pocket. That helped me a lot.

[Bill Lundberg]

Did you get lien waivers?

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[mikeyis4dcats.]

Did you get lien waivers?

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yeah, be VERY careful, otherwise you'll be paying for his subs twice.

[jspchief]

So how much research did you do with your GCs? Did you look for someone with experience doing the things you wanted (you mention new technologies)?

A few of your complaints seem pretty legit, while others make me think you just don't understand what you were getting into. I could probably write pages of responses trying to shed light on some of your gripes, but I won't. I'll just say there are a lot of bad GCs, Subs, and Homeowners out there.

[Bill Lundberg]

So how much research did you do with your GCs? Did you look for someone with experience doing the things you wanted (you mention new technologies)?

A few of your complaints seem pretty legit, while others make me think you just don't understand what you were getting into. I could probably write pages of responses trying to shed light on some of your gripes, but I won't. I'll just say there are a lot of bad GCs, Subs, and Homeowners out there.

I don't think you can say bad homeowners. You could say ignorant homeowners or uninformed homeowners, but I would think in your line of work there is no such thing as a bad homeowner. Especially in these tough times.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I don't think you can say bad homeowners. You could say ignorant homeowners or uninformed homeowners, but I would think in your line of work there is no such thing as a bad homeowner. Especially in these tough times.

I don't do residential, but there certainly are bad OWNERS out there. There are those who intentionally try to mislead and cheat you, just as there are contractors that do the same.

As for the comment above about a homeowner who visited the site twice a day, that can be problematic. An owner that spends a significant amount of time on site can be interfering with the contractors progress, lead to people feeling that they are being hounded or watched. Technically, during construction, for insurance and liability purposes, the contractor owns the site, and having an owner around can be hazardous as well both to the owner and contractor.

[chris]

yeah, be VERY careful, otherwise you'll be paying for his subs twice.

(what is the symbol for beating your head against the wall?)

WE used a title company to pay the subs. No problem there.

HOWEVER, we didn't realize he was using subs on his carpentry crew....they were not paid.

Oh-oh.

Houston, we have problem.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

Generally speaking, is it cheaper to build your own house rather than buying it or the other way around?

[Bill Lundberg]

Generally speaking, is it cheaper to build your own house rather than buying it or the other way around?

With the amount of inventory of existing homes on the market it is far cheaper to buy than build right now.

[Phobia]

Generally speaking, is it cheaper to build your own house rather than buying it or the other way around?

I could not have built my house for what I paid. Not a chance.

[notorious]

Most of the small town contractors that build houses around here are A+ people with that do A+ work.

The cookie cutter house builders in larger communities usually end up doing some fairly average to crap work. 4 years ago I measured a wall in one room that was 2 inches off from being square on a 15 foot run :eek:

On site there is usually one guy that knows what is going on for 5 minutes of the day while about 10-15 (probably) illegals do the work.

The only way to avoid shitty contractors is to get references and prepare to wait for at least 2 years for major projects and 6-9 months for small remodels.

[notorious]

I will say this, Chris, you are doing an excellent job of keeping on their ass to get what you want.

Some people let the GC go, and when the house is done they try to get things fixed to how they wanted. The homeowner needs to be onsite pretty much every day with a tape measure checking to make sure it is being done to their specs.

[Hoover]

If my GC told me that I was coming to the job site too often I would have fired his ass.

I hardly ever interacted with the subs, that's not my job. I was looking at the progress, quality, and made sure stuff was being done to the plans. I would stop and check in with the builder in the morning, ask for a progress report, time lines, what he needed from me. At night I would go in and measure shit, look stuff over so I could raise any questions the next morning.

here is the finished project.

[Iowanian]

I don't think you can say bad homeowners. You could say ignorant homeowners or uninformed homeowners, but I would think in your line of work there is no such thing as a bad homeowner. Especially in these tough times.


I don't know about that.

When I was working for a builder in Colorado I saw some real doozies.
After the hole for a foundation had been blasted, the basement poured, 4500sq' house framed, sheeted, roofed and drywalled, I saw the lady ask the GC whom I worked for if we could "build a special room for her son under the house". I could go on.

There are some really uninformed, needy, unsatisfiable people and legit lunatics who have homes built.

[Bill Lundberg]

I saw the lady ask the GC whom I worked for if we could "build a special room for her son under the house"

I had no idea you worked on a house for Gochiefs' mom.

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[Iowanian]

Hoover buried a real life Mexican lawn ornament in his yard during construction...listen to him.


Contractors do make mistakes. I was walking through the house a friend is having built last week, just looking at it with him, and saw 4 2x6 in the walkout basement wall that were nailed on the wrong side of the line on the footer, making them out of whack/crooked.

Some friends had a house built about 5 years ago, and a year into it started noticing some serious problems in the ceiling, upstairs floor. Essentially, part of the house was coming apart. They ended up spending serious cash having another contractor come in. They found 12' floor joists hanging in 16' spans, held together by the sheeting.....crap like that.

When you're spending that kind of money, you have to pay attention.
I think it's your right and obligation to be vigilant and make sure what you're paying for is being done.....It's a major investment. Just don't be a pain in the ass.

If my GC told me that I was coming to the job site too often I would have fired his ass.

I hardly ever interacted with the subs, that's not my job. I was looking at the progress, quality, and made sure stuff was being done to the plans. I would stop and check in with the builder in the morning, ask for a progress report, time lines, what he needed from me. At night I would go in and measure shit, look stuff over so I could raise any questions the next morning.

here is the finished project.

[Iowanian]

I had no idea you worked on a house for Gochiefs' mom.

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It may have been.

I took on a side job with another guy building a horse barn for the lady. after it was walled
in, she wanted a "movable stable wall" inside.

[The Bad Guy]

My wife and I just had just this week signed a contract to build a pre-fab house. The house was ordered yesterday and should be up by October at the latest.

The main reason I didn't want a stick built house was because of horror stories my friends had when building their house with a few GC"s in my area.

[Brock]

You gotta watch out with prefab too.

[The Bad Guy]

With the amount of inventory of existing homes on the market it is far cheaper to buy than build right now.

I wish it was that way around my area.

People literally want 170k for their old 1960's house that needs a ton of work.

I can basically get a pre-fab done exactly the way I want, with a 2,000 SQ house for 180k turnkey with a lot of bells and whistles.

[The Bad Guy]

You gotta watch out with prefab too.

Oh, I know that. I know they present their own issues, but with my Father in law being a contractor, and taking about 6 months off for surgery, he'll be at the job site most days when the work is being done.

[Brock]

Oh, I know that. I know they present their own issues, but with my Father in law being a contractor, and taking about 6 months off for surgery, he'll be at the job site most days when the work is being done.

That's handy.

[The Bad Guy]

That's handy.

And my dad lives about 3 minutes from the lot so he'll be there too.

Both of them got screwed over when they built their houses by GC's.

Good luck Chris. Hopefully the process is over soon.

[Rooster]

--GCs think they know how to build better than the architect......and don't bother to coordinate problems with her; they just do way they want and then argue that their way is better. Then they want a Change Order to fix it.

Here's your problem. Girl architects?? What will the world think of next? :p

[chris]

If my GC told me that I was coming to the job site too often I would have fired his ass.

I hardly ever interacted with the subs, that's not my job. I was looking at the progress, quality, and made sure stuff was being done to the plans. I would stop and check in with the builder in the morning, ask for a progress report, time lines, what he needed from me. At night I would go in and measure shit, look stuff over so I could raise any questions the next morning.

here is the finished project.

Exactly!

My experience is that they hate that.

[Phobia]

Exactly!

My experience is that they hate that.

I don't hate it. But a homeowner has to understand two things:
1: I can't spend 90 minutes with you every time you decide to drop by. I love to talk and show off our work but if you drop by twice a day, that's days - even weeks I'd spend with you by the end of a large project. I time budget walk-throughs for my clients and I'll spend 10-15 minutes with you showing our most recent progress/answering questions - longer if we've scheduled a walk-through. I also give them a roll of painters tape. If they see something that looks awry to them, I encourage them to put a piece on it where I'll either correct it or explain it during the next walk-through.
2. Construction isn't perfect, typically. The finish phase takes care of the cosmetic stuff. As long as a homeowner understands that we're in good shape.

[chris]

Here's your problem. Girl architects?? What will the world think of next? :p

She's about 5'4, blond, and cusses like a sailor at times. :)

[The Bad Guy]

Yep, this thread is spot on.

Went to meet to finalize my deal with a builder tonight, told him my limit and he kept saying we were within it and maybe even below.

He then presents everything to me and it's 13k more than budget.

I told him to shove his deal up his ass.

[Demonpenz]

fun thread

[Fishpicker]

I was about to post some cool stuff and some helpful.... forget it. that house is an eyesore. that house would be awesome if the partridge family was still touring and filming.

just awful. misery loves company, I'm sure, this might help.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w-ZdY9BLbgQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The Bad Guy]

I was about to post some cool stuff and some helpful.... forget it. that house is an eyesore. that house would be awesome if the partridge family was still touring and filming.

just awful. misery loves company, I'm sure, this might help.



Hater in the house.

[epitome1170]

Here's your problem. architects?? What will the world think of next? :p

FYP

[chris]

Any WI finishing carpenters on the CP that is looking for work? Anybody have any harvester silo parts for sale?

[Phobia]

Any WI finishing carpenters on the CP that is looking for work? Anybody have any harvester silo parts for sale?

Where were you in the middle of the winter? No, you have to pick the only time of year where I'm booked months out. If it were December, I'd pack up a trailer and bring an apprentice up with me.