Have you ever built a house? Would you do it again? Any disaster stories?

[chris]

I will never build a house again.

We are 12 months into a project that was supposed to take 8. We've on our 2nd General Contractor (GC); and on our 3rd concrete sub-contractor.

We had heard of the horror stories from others about GCs and sloppy work. But we thought we could be different. We had previously done 3 major remodels; so how could building a house be that much harder?

We prepared well for this adventure. The architect spent 10 months designing the plans to great detail to ensure minimum change orders. Not a big house ; 1800 sq. ft.; contemporary in design.

Here are my observations:

--GCs don't believe in schedules or keeping deadlines. We ask when this or that will be done and not once has the deadline been made.

--Subs show up whenever they want. They will promise to be onsite; then don't show. The GC just shrugs his shoulders. Several Fridays, they have worked for 3-4 hours, then left to go fishing or go hunting. Then they look at you "Like what?".

--Rain days are a joke. If it's raining early in the AM; they take the whole day off. I asked the GC if they ever work late or on Saturday to catch up. He looked at me like I was crazy.

--GCs think they know how to build better than the architect......and don't bother to coordinate problems with her; they just do way they want and then argue that their way is better. Then they want a Change Order to fix it.

--Concrete walls are poured in the wrong place; doors are poured nonstandard size; yet the first GC argued with us when we demand the sub be fired and the GC eat the repair costs. He refused. Combined with his other errors; we made the decision to fire him too. Then he demanded we pay severance fee. We're suing to recover $15K of repair costs.

--Then the new concrete sub pours the 1st floor which is to be a certain color and finish. oops, applies the wrong finish technique. Not his fault he says. The way we wanted it, and drew it in the plans, was too hard to do. So the entire floor has to be grinded down and refinished. Both the GC and sub blame each other for the wrong troweling finish. Thus, 2nd concrete sub was gone. 3rd sub did a great job fixing the mess and pouring the remainder.

--Cost over-runs on fixed bid line items are not the GCs fault. We caught the 2nd GC trying to hide his $30K carpentry overrun in the excavating budget. Isn't that illegal?

-- They want to use their own subs regardless of expertise. I can understand that they want to use people they are comfortable with; but when we want new technologies used and the subs don't know how to use, the GCs argue that the old insulation or roofing materials are better.

--GCs low bid on line items; then strive to get Change Orders for overruns. Their markup increases from 7% to 10% on Change Orders.

So yes, I'm venting. If I ran my outsourcing company like this...I would be out of business. I'm ready to shoot the GC. What is the time in the Big House for a murder plea of temporary insanity?

What are your disaster stories? If there are any GCs or subs on CP, please share your perspective.

[DeezNutz]

Beautiful looking home.

All this bullshit will make for good stories over drinks once you're in the house and enjoying it.

[chris]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Beautiful looking home.

All this bullshit will make for good stories over drinks once you're in the house and enjoying it.

Thanks. Most locals look at it like it's a freak house.

When we were interviewing GCs, I would watch their eyes. If they widen, it was "next".

[Over-Head]

The good GC's are so booked up you can't even get them to talk to you.
Most of them already have their sub's in place, and 75% of the time will actually get things done.

OR
You get what i'm into now.
GC "A"
He has the IQ of a wet fart.
Been through more subs than I can count, and hasn't got a clue what professional courtousy is.. I started 6 weeks ago with 3 houses 2 months behind sched. I not only cought him back up, but am now waiting on his "reg subs" to come back and finish the stairs, trim, etc.
When things are good for him he walks around with his chest out barking orders...when it falls to shit he looks to everyone else to bail him out.
I've pulled 2 over nighters, and 4 Sat/Sun 12hr days just to see this fool micro manage him self right back to being a month behind again, and he made the mistake of going off on me Tuesday over something HE lied to me about then seemed to forget. I walked off the job for teh second time..
He got his registered letter today telling him to basically shove his 3, million dollar plus homes up his ass, and if i'm not paid by tomorrow close of business I drop liens on the places. (which I know will torpedo his company for good, he's in that bad of shape.)

On one house my "delay of progress" charge is MORE than the origional paint job. It don't take 6 weeks to build a stair case, especially when I told him the guy he's usuing has about the worst rep around the city for time lines even though he's probably one of the best in the provience for wood working..

Switch to GC "B"
Told me up front, due to problems beyond his control this is what he could do/pay now, with written terms guaranteeing my $$$ within 48hrs of this PRE-SOLD home closing. PLUS a bonus in writing if I pulled a merical and made his deadlines. (Wife is cashing the bonus cheque today as we speak)
. Told me his time line, even came in on a Sun to move 40 box's of mud/plaster for me. While he and his wife were out checking on properties. The few of us giving him a chance are more than happy with his professionalism.
But the bottom line is he followed my 3 rules
1-NEVER lie to me, tell me a bad truth, but lies get ya no where fast
2- Dont BS me, been around this business (off and on)for 32 years
3-NEVER screw with my $$$

You get all types in this buisness. And me being the "Sub" who generally spends more time than ahyone (save teh framers) in a house gets to know first hand who teh goons are, and who the guys are whon will actually pull off a "Holmes on Homes" for you.

I'm in the planning stages now of my own place, and WILL be the CG.
But in my case I'm NOT worried about time line, and want the guys I want, so I'll wait.
All my subbing will be compartmented to individual crews. ALL will have quotes and contracts, PLUS in writing will be the nifty little part of MY charging THEM for delay of progress if they hang me up.
Excavation
Framing to a weather tight shell (including evestroughing)
Electrical
Plumbing / heating
Gyproc and vapor barrier
Insulation
Trim and wood work including stairs
Interior finish taping/plaster and paint(Obviously doing that myself)

If ya want to build one yourself, best advice I can give is bvuy this book!!
http://www.amazon.ca/Make-Right-Mike.../dp/0002008130

[CrazyPhuD]

Does Building a Bird House count? That wasn't too bad I would definitely do it again!

[Amnorix]

I did build my first house, but it wasn't a nightmare. The GC owned the property, and there was no architect involved. It was a construction company who had several pre-set layouts -- pick one, then modify as desired. He managed all the subs, of course, and because they had alot of experience -- and because we had turnkey pricing and wouldn't buy the property at closing until construction was complete, it was alot easier.

I have heard alot of horror stories about construction along the lines you're describing, and "construction litigation" is an unfortunately active part of trial work for many lawyers. There are certainly many reference materials specific to the field.

One bottom line in life for me -- contractors in general suck, so if you find a good one, try to keep him at all costs. Most never call you back, dont' show up, show up late, obviously don't give a rat's ass, etc. etc. It's absolutely disgusting and beyond frustrating.

[Over-Head]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

One bottom line in life for me -- contractors in general suck, so if you find a good one, try to keep him at all costs. Most never call you back, dont' show up, show up late, obviously don't give a rat's ass, etc. etc. It's absolutely disgusting and beyond frustrating.

AGREED!! 99% of em aint worth a pinch of coon shit. The ones that are, become a pleasure to work for. At the end of the day it's your "subs" who do the work, not the CG...and he's either the prick, or Prince we subs end up dealing with that you the home owner never know about.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Over-Head

AGREED!! 99% of em aint worth a pinch of coon shit. The ones that are, become a pleasure to work for. At the end of the day it's your "subs" who do the work, not the CG...and he's either the prick, or Prince we subs end up dealing with that you the home owner never know about.

One of the best subs has been the dry wall company. Amazing. I think mudding is an art. I've tried several times and never could make it look right.

I've seen multi-million homes with bad jobs and it ruins the interior appearance.

[tooge]

Built one from scratch and did a major addition to the one we are currently in. Both were good experiences overall even though at the time, both were fairly stressfull. I think it is important to know two things. One, it will always cost more than the GC bids, and it will always take more time than they think. Most of this is due to weather and sometimes running into things like guys not showing up to work.

[seclark]

built the one we're living in now. didn't really have any problems, but we knew and were good friends w/the contractor.

would i do it again? i hope we don't have to.

sec

[suds79]

Originally Posted by chris

One of the best subs has been the dry wall company. Amazing. I think mudding is an art. I've tried several times and never could make it look right.

I've seen multi-million homes with bad jobs and it ruins the interior appearance.

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.

[Bump]

are all of the workers mexican?

[chris]

Originally Posted by suds79

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.

optical illusion.

Windows in basement. Double set of windows on first floor with high ceilings. 2nd floor is small office with its own windows.

I think it is dumb for 2 people to have much more than that. One of my neighbors in park City, Utah bought a 6K ft house; then added 2.5K more for two adults and 2 small children, Another couple built a 13K ft house for themselves. Why? Just to show off?

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by suds79

Ain't that the truth. I've done mudding a few times myself and I get better every time I do it but i firmly believe it's an art and will gladly hire that out if I can.

BTW, How is that only a 1800 Sq Ft house? It looks huge.

Looks like a ranch or raised ranch, with garage under. It's certainly unique. I'm not so much into modern, but I do approve of anything a bit out of the norm as there's nothing so boring as a block of houses that look exactly the same. There's one cul-de-sac in my home town with four houses that on their own would be fantastic, but they're all practically identical. Lame.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Bump

are all of the workers mexican?

Interesting question.

Dry wall only. Separate crews to install; and to mud. As good as they did, I wish the concrete subs would have been speaking Spanish and cooling rice/beans in the microwave that they brought.