Chiefs Would it be a mistake to fire Todd Haley? [Archive]

BossChief

12-07-2011, 11:54 PM

I started the year in full support of Haley. This team was developing into one of the better teams in football and were young across the board...despite being handcuffed to Matt Cassel. The growth in almost all of our young talent was apparent and easily recognizable.

His fiery attitude is infectious and the team plays with that emotion and passion. Haleys motivational skills are up there with about anyones.

For that, I was willing to overlook his mismanagement of situational football and a few other deficiencies that come with a first time coach and assumed that he would improve in those areas, with experience.

This is one hell of a hard season to judge because of the lack of an offseason. I am willing to give him a partial pass on the early part of the schedule because I still believe it was the right plan if we are looking at the long term big picture. It just sucks that we coincidentally ran into the injury bug at crucial positions early on.

All that said, his offense is embarrassing to watch while Romeos defense is seemingly entering GOD mode without, arguably, its best player. Everyone on earth (sans Haley, seemingly) can see that Palko has no place in the NFL and Haley is seemingly OK with betting half the year on him. I dont understand what Haley sees from a quarterback that has the weakest arm Ive ever seen in the NFL.

I still think that Haley deserves a shot at it with a real quarterback. This team is giving good effort and I think most agree it would be a contender with a real quarterback. Who could have this team in position to contend with these quarterbacks (Im not even gonna touch the Stanzi situation)?

I guess the way we deal with the remaining 4 games plays a lot into this, but at this point I think it would be a mistake to fire Haley either during or after this year, but I can see why someone would disagree with that opinion and thats why I want to see how a poll on this topic shakes out.

Do YOU think it would be a mistake to fire Todd Haley and replace him prior to next year?

rambleonthruthefog

12-07-2011, 11:56 PM

Yes

Shogun

12-07-2011, 11:56 PM

yes IMHO

Hammock Parties

12-07-2011, 11:57 PM

We won't know until he gets another HC job.

I doubt it happens for a few years.

He's going to be lucky to get an OC job next year.

Bill Brasky

12-08-2011, 12:00 AM

I think it would be a mistake. Who would we replace him with that's better?

lewdog

12-08-2011, 12:00 AM

Haley is low on the list of many things that are wrong with this franchise not winning.

Bump

12-08-2011, 12:01 AM

I could go either way, honestly.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:02 AM

To answer your question directly, no, I don't think it would be a mistake.

I'm having a hard time thinking of another coach who has been routinely blown out as much as Haley has...shitty QB or not...and has gone on to great things.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:02 AM

I think it would be a mistake. Who would we replace him with that's better?

A proven, veteran head coach who knows how to win.

RealSNR

12-08-2011, 12:04 AM

Haley doesn't deserve a good QB the way he's handled the Tyler Palko situation.

If he doesn't deserve a good QB, then he needs to get fired.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:06 AM

Haley doesn't deserve a good QB the way he's handled the Tyler Palko situation.

If he doesn't deserve a good QB, then he needs to get fired.

This is exactly how I felt about Herm after his third season.

We were prepared to go into 2009 with Herm and Tyler Thigpen leading our franchise.

Uh, no.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 12:11 AM

Haley doesn't deserve a good QB the way he's handled the Tyler Palko situation.

If he doesn't deserve a good QB, then he needs to get fired.

Actually, I think the opposite is likely true.

He has stuck with his guy through his struggles and if we are gonna draft and develop a quarterback, thats what the head coach needs to do. Its just that Palko and Cassel were/are garbage.

Haley has been the good trooper with Cassel, think how he would handle having a quarterback with talent like Barkley, RG3 or even Luck.

What if his motivational techniques worked on one of those guys the same as it has for guys like DJ and Bowe....

RealSNR

12-08-2011, 12:13 AM

Actually, I think the opposite is likely true.

He has stuck with his guy through his struggles and if we are gonna draft and develop a quarterback, thats what the head coach needs to do. Its just that Palko and Cassel were/are garbage.

Haley has been the good trooper with Cassel, think how he would handle having a quarterback with talent like Barkley, RG3 or even Luck.

What if his motivational techniques worked on one of those guys the same as it has for guys like DJ and Bowe....The idea is that you don't pull those kinds of motivational techniques when it comes to the QB. It's probably why Haley's cool with Cassel and Palko.

Dave Lane

12-08-2011, 12:15 AM

Yes don't want to see him run out of town like Belicheck was in Cleveland.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 12:18 AM

We won't know until he gets another HC job.

I doubt it happens for a few years.

He's going to be lucky to get an OC job next year.

The mistake you make is thinking he's gone after this season. Like so many mistakes you've made before. When he's back next year remind us why you know so much about football. You're an all or nothing person who never considers the gray area or takes time to see past your own knee jerk reactions. Actual NFL teams and especially the Chiefs don't think like that. Maybe one day you'll get that.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 12:19 AM

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 12:22 AM

Haley doesn't deserve a good QB the way he's handled the Tyler Palko situation.

If he doesn't deserve a good QB, then he needs to get fired.

We have no idea how ready Stanzi is or Orton was. What we do know is that Pioli has forced him to work with pretty much an empty cupboard.

splatbass

12-08-2011, 12:31 AM

We won't know until he gets another HC job.

I doubt it happens for a few years.

He's going to be lucky to get an OC job next year.

Why would he need a OC job next year? He'll be the Chiefs head coach. He won't get fired. CP armchair GMs may be in a panic (as always) but Pioli won't panic.

RippedmyFlesh

12-08-2011, 12:37 AM

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 12:37 AM

Why would he need a OC job next year? He'll be the Chiefs head coach. He won't get fired. CP armchair GMs may be in a panic (as always) but Pioli won't panic.

Haley was suppossed to be fired weeks ago according to Goknownothing remember? He has no more insight than a random 3rd grader. He just throws his knee jerk reactions against the wall hoping something will eventually stick.

splatbass

12-08-2011, 12:44 AM

Haley was suppossed to be fired weeks ago according to Goknownothing remember? He has no more insight than a random 3rd grader. He just throws his knee jerk reactions against the wall hoping something will eventually stick.

I know. But he is not alone in that.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 12:45 AM

Didn't vote.

I'd like to see what his offense would look like with a real QB.

Phobia

12-08-2011, 12:47 AM

I think that the emotional head coach in the Lombardi mold is somewhat passe'. I think about half of coaching is keeping your squad committed and picking up what you're putting down. The other half is preparation, conditioning, execution, luck, scheme and talent. That's a whole lot of variables. But as long as you have 53 who come out and work hard then you deserve an opportunity to have the other variables fall in place. This team has a shortage of talent and luck right now. Injuries have been devastating, no doubt. But even with the health of some key contributors, we're still a little short on talent at some key positions. I doubt Haley gets dumped this year. I think he'll get at least one more year and then they'll assess where they are.

Again, when a team gives up on their head coach, there's really no turning back regardless of who is to blame for their situation. Typically though, if a team gives up on the head coach then he is most likely the cause for the problems.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 12:51 AM

Does not matter, if Chiefs GM isn't willing to draft a first round pick and make him the QBotf then there is no hope who ever the HC is.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 12:52 AM

I know. But he is not alone in that.

So you're saying some of the CP membership over-reacts as well... I would agree with you then.

FAX

12-08-2011, 12:56 AM

There is a phenomenon in life where you wake up one day and realize that you're working harder and enjoying it less. I'm sure many of us have experienced that moment.

I think that's where Haley is in his KCCHC career. He sort of exploded onto the scene like a super-nova ... working 20 hour days, going for it on 4th down, using the on-side kick as an offensive weapon, benching the hell out of his best players, cursing at everybody, calling out enemy coaches on national television, etc. Then, it seemed like he sort of settled down. Then we had the strike/lockout. Then we had a series of devastating injuries to our best players. Then he found out that Muir really is older than cheese. Now, he has to deal with the KC media coming up with even more bizarre stories than they were before that are probably being leaked by Pioli's alien connections.

I wouldn't blame him if he told Pioli to stick it up his ass and go somewhere where he feels appreciated. Like Sandy Vago, for instance.

FAX

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 12:57 AM

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 12:59 AM

So you're saying some of the CP membership over-reacts as well... I would agree with you then.

No way. We all take it in stride... :)

Brock

12-08-2011, 12:59 AM

splatbass

12-08-2011, 01:00 AM

So you're saying some of the CP membership over-reacts as well... I would agree with you then.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:02 AM

That's exactly what I'm saying.

theskyisfalling@overreactionplanet.com.... check it out sometime... it just like this place.

:)

BossChief

12-08-2011, 01:03 AM

Does not matter, if Chiefs GM isn't willing to draft a first round pick and make him the QBotf then there is no hope who ever the HC is.

I think thats a bullshit argument, to a degree.

If you were to tell us 3 years ago that we would take a safety top five and follow it up with a first round wide out, I would LOL @U.

Pioli has shown to be able to recognize and select the talent of the draft the last two that fits what the team needs.

I dont see anything that says he wouldn't take a first round quarterback if one is there that he believes in and sees it as a similar need as most of us do.

DaWolf

12-08-2011, 01:03 AM

I would fire him if he elects to keep Muir around as OC...

Phobia

12-08-2011, 01:03 AM

Franchise record low scoring offense.

If he gets the boot this will be a good enough reason. But if the lack of offensive prowess were really his fault I think that his players would give up. The fact that they haven't suggests that he's doing what he's supposed to be doing, the players just aren't executing and getting the job done.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:05 AM

If he gets the boot this will be a good enough reason. But if the lack of offensive prowess were really his fault I think that his players would give up. The fact that they haven't suggests that he's doing what he's supposed to be doing, the players just aren't executing and getting the job done.

I don't see a lot of fight in Bowe. Doesn't look enthused at all.

FAX

12-08-2011, 01:05 AM

The players have completely bought in to Todd. They really seem to like him.

Firing him now, with all the injuries, send a bad message to the team, I think.

These players aren't even remotely close to giving up on Haley.

Pioli needs to remove his head from his ass and draft a ****ing franchise QB.

My greatest fear at this moment in time ... well, other than being attacked in my bed by a bear ... is that the haters will get what they want; namely Haley's head on a pike.

It's not that we couldn't do better in a head coach. I'm sure we could ... eventually. But sometimes you wind up regretting what you wished so hard for ... like the .22 rifle that you want for Christmas before you accidentally shoot your dog.

It's far more likely that we will get some doobob that truly is a total Pioli sycophant and things go from improving to worsening in short order. Our players are professionals, sure. But they have developed an affinity and affection for Todd and his Haley ways. I could definitely see a world where we get a Norv or a Herm or a Del Rio or some other asswipe who finds Haley's shoes difficult to fill when it comes to player dedication, allegiance, and loyalty.

FAX

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:07 AM

The mistake you make is thinking he's gone after this season. Like so many mistakes you've made before. When he's back next year remind us why you know so much about football. You're an all or nothing person who never considers the gray area or takes time to see past your own knee jerk reactions. Actual NFL teams and especially the Chiefs don't think like that. Maybe one day you'll get that.

Sorry but there are no knee jerk reactions from me on Todd Haley. I was very supportive of him until last year's Denver game, and then I started to cool off. That turned into disgust at the start of the year and has finally morphed into "had enough, well, bye."

Dude is definitely gone.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 01:07 AM

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 01:09 AM

I don't see a lot of fight in Bowe. Doesn't look enthused at all.

LMAO

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:09 AM

Too much credit goes to Romeo. Romeo's a terrific X's and O's guy. But he's not a great coach. He's not the fiery guy that's going to get his team playing the way they're playing now.

What's interesting is that he probably has more to do with saving Haley's job than Haley does himself. If Romeo's D doesn't step up in Indianapolis and hold the Colts scoreless for an entire half, Haley is axed after that game.

There was an article in the KC Star about Romeo making a big locker room speech, too.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:10 AM

Keep Haley. Get a real OC. Get key players back from injury. Draft well. Get a couple non-descript but helpful free agents. Coach up the youngins. Rocket science.

Hell... and I'm not even a football fan first.

splatbass

12-08-2011, 01:10 AM

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 01:11 AM

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:11 AM

Haley was suppossed to be fired weeks ago according to Goknownothing remember?

No, I said I thought he would be fired if we had continued our losing streak.

And he definitely would have been fired if we had lost to Indy.

Kyle Boller, Curtis Painter and a miracle snap saved Haley's job for a few more weeks.

Phobia

12-08-2011, 01:11 AM

I don't see a lot of fight in Bowe. Doesn't look enthused at all.

Don't really care what you think you see. You're a pitbull in the henhouse. You reach for the easiest hen and lock down. Then you grab another. It's actually comical.

splatbass

12-08-2011, 01:13 AM

What's interesting is that he probably has more to do with saving Haley's job than Haley does himself. If Romeo's D doesn't step up in Indianapolis and hold the Colts scoreless for an entire half, Haley is axed after that game.

You have no way of knowing that at all. Real journalists don't even know what is going on at the FO, how would a faux journalist like you know anything?

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:13 AM

Don't really care what you think you see. You're a pitbull in the henhouse. You reach for the easiest hen and lock down. Then you grab another. It's actually comical.

So you're telling me you see the same Dwayne Bowe out there?

Because I sure don't.

Bowe is an energizer bunny typically. He looks sad these days.

FAX

12-08-2011, 01:15 AM

I'm sure Bowe is thrilled to death running routes for the likes of Cassel and Palko.

FAX

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:15 AM

Franchise record low scoring offense.

Think about the coaches this team has had in the past, and this supposed offensive genius has done worse than they have.

Injuries, no injuries, that's unfathomable. If this team keeps him around for the last year of his contract, it will be for the same reason Carolina and Tennessee kept their lame duck coaches around: They were simply too ****ing cheap to pay them to just go away.

It's fathomable. It's amazing to me that there are a million and a half threads about the importance of a franchise QB, yet the same people think Haley should win games in spite of it. And considering how untalented our RBs are right now, we also happen to have a #11 ranked run offense, which is actually kind of amazing.

I don't care about offensive production. What's more important is what puts our team in the best position to win. Haley seems convinced that the key is to keep the ball out of the hands of our QB. And that seems to be a smart concept. If Haley had a QB he can go vertical with, I guarantee you this offense would look completely different.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:16 AM

Sorry but there are no knee jerk reactions from me on Todd Haley. I was very supportive of him until last year's Denver game, and then I started to cool off. That turned into disgust at the start of the year and has finally morphed into "had enough, well, bye."

Dude is definitely gone.

You're nothing more than knee jerk reactions. But since you don't have a financial investment or run the team it's easy for you to do that. You don't have to look at the reality of injurys to key players or the way the team plays hard against teams that totally over-match them. You see a couple lame QB's and a lack of depth and think you know it all. Pretty easy to run the team from your seat.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:17 AM

You're nothing more than knee jerk reactions.

LMAO

There were people on here calling for Haley's head after ONE YEAR.

I was not among them.

Hell, we suffered the worst home playoff loss in franchise history and I didn't want him fired.

My knees are fine.

Brock

12-08-2011, 01:17 AM

It's missing its MVP and shitty QB play. Think about that.

They're unable to coach up the backups like other teams do. Another reason not to keep him around.

This offense has more than enough talent to do better than a franchise record low. There's really no excuse for this, not for a guy who's supposedly this offensive mastermind.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 01:18 AM

I think thats a bullshit argument, to a degree.

If you were to tell us 3 years ago that we would take a safety top five and follow it up with a first round wide out, I would LOL @U.

Pioli has shown to be able to recognize and select the talent of the draft the last two that fits what the team needs.

I dont see anything that says he wouldn't take a first round quarterback if one is there that he believes in and sees it as a similar need as most of us do.

I wouldn't be harping so much for first round pick if indeed they would show trust in a 5th round developmental QB and just show there willing to give up on this retread bull shit this organization is so accustom too. I trusted Pioli with Stanzi in the late round thinking we may have got a gem at that spot. Who knows how he will work out? What we are watching is an abomination of desolation from Cassel to Palko one fluke Orton play and back to Palko. With no intent what so ever to give a rookie QB an ounce of a shot to prove that he just may have what it takes.

Makes no since to me how the hell this franchise has gone over 25 years with out drafting a touted first round draft pick QBotf? I don't mind getting a once in a life time FS with the 3 overal pick but for us to neglect the QB after so many years of FAILURE at the most important position is a crime to the fans & the rest of the team that depends on that guy to go year in and year out to the battle field.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:18 AM

No, I said I thought he would be fired if we had continued our losing streak.

And he definitely would have been fired if we had lost to Indy.

Kyle Boller, Curtis Painter and a miracle snap saved Haley's job for a few more weeks.

LMAO

The funniest thing about you is that you believe your own crap

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:19 AM

LMAO

There were people on here calling for Haley's head after ONE YEAR.

I was not among them.

Hell, we suffered the worst home playoff loss in franchise history and I didn't want him fired.

My knees are fine.

Haley's team played outstanding in the playoffs.

His QB gave away the game in the third quarter.

"It's the Quarterback, stupid"

jspchief

12-08-2011, 01:19 AM

Before the season started many people said 7-9,8-8 would actually be a pretty good year if there was progress. Now if at that time you had said we will lose Charles Barry and Moeaki for just about the whole season most would have thought that to be a great season for Haley.

Yes it would be a mistake. Looking at the record on paper doesn't tell the whole story though. It doesn't recognize when the team won in spite of bad play calling, poor personnel decisions, poor clock management, etc.

Personally, I'd probably give him another year. However, if he's fired, I understand why and wouldn't be up in arms over it.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:19 AM

They're unable to coach up the backups like other teams do. Another reason not to keep him around.

I don't expect Haley to coach up Tyler Palko.

I do expect him to have the sense to know he should be flinging footballs in the UFL.

Palko is clearly a Haley guy. He's not even here if Haley doesn't run into him in Arizona.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:20 AM

LMAO

The funniest thing about you is that you believe your own crap

OK, man.

Are you going to apologize to me when Haley is canned?

Brock

12-08-2011, 01:21 AM

It's fathomable. It's amazing to me that there are a million and a half threads about the importance of a franchise QB, yet the same people think Haley should win games in spite of it. And considering how untalented our RBs are right now, we also happen to have a #11 ranked run offense, which is actually kind of amazing.

I don't care about offensive production. What's more important is what puts our team in the best position to win. Haley seems convinced that the key is to keep the ball out of the hands of our QB. And that seems to be a smart concept. If Haley had a QB he can go vertical with, I guarantee you this offense would look completely different.

I'm not talking about winning games. I'm talking about putting an offense on the field that looks like it's playing the same game the other team is playing.

Spare me the excuses, he went into the season with Tyler Palko as his number two, he's a dipshit.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:22 AM

They're unable to coach up the backups like other teams do. Another reason not to keep him around.

This offense has more than enough talent to do better than a franchise record low. There's really no excuse for this, not for a guy who's supposedly this offensive mastermind.

What do you mean "coach up" backups?

You mean a journeyman who can't throw over 30 yards and a 5th round rookie?

There is an excuse. It's that Pioli walked into the season so arrogant about his QB that he didn't seem to think our QB situation was a problem.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:24 AM

LMAO

There were people on here calling for Haley's head after ONE YEAR.

I was not among them.

Hell, we suffered the worst home playoff loss in franchise history and I didn't want him fired.

My knees are fine.

Keep telling yourself you know what you're talking about while you waffle from week to week. I never said they're aren't other morons on cp... you're just the most vocal and absolute of them.

007

12-08-2011, 01:24 AM

Does not matter, if Chiefs GM isn't willing to draft a first round pick and make him the QBotf then there is no hope who ever the HC is.

Sadly, THIS.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:27 AM

splatbass

12-08-2011, 01:27 AM

OK, man.

Are you going to apologize to me when Haley is canned?

Are you when he isn't?

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:27 AM

Are you when he isn't?

If Todd Haley is not fired I'll leave Chiefsplanet for a month.

Brock

12-08-2011, 01:28 AM

Yeah. Because he's the one who writes the checks.

Yeah. I bet he has no say at all on his backup QB. Of course.

ChiefsD

12-08-2011, 01:28 AM

haley will be here next year

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:29 AM

OK, man.

Are you going to apologize to me when Haley is canned?

Why would I need to do that? I didn't predict in absolutes that he would be here like you predicted in absolutes that he'd be fired weeks ago. I think he will be here. I think it's a mistake to fire him after this season. You said he'd be gone weeks ago. I think he stays. If it will make you feel better for little ol me to apologize to you if he's fired though I'll do it. In that case congrats... you knew more (kind of) than a guy who doesn't even watch football every week.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:30 AM

I'm not talking about winning games. I'm talking about putting an offense on the field that looks like it's playing the same game the other team is playing.

Spare me the excuses, he went into the season with Tyler Palko as his number two, he's a dipshit.

You should care about winning games.

McDaniels' offense in Denver looked legit. They were exciting, put up points, and got yards. You know what? The defense and the running game look pretty damn good with a different philosophy.

With Cassel and Palko, his philosophy is clearly that he's going to take the game away from the QB. Sadly, it's the best option to win. So no, I could give a shit about what a team looks like when we're doing everything in our power to gameplan around severe weaknesses. I want to see what plan he can put together when he has a QB he actually thinks can win games for us.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:32 AM

Yeah. I bet he has no say at all on his backup QB. Of course.

Isn't it pretty obvious that Pioli doesn't really give a shit what Haley thinks?

Haley did have a choice. He had a choice between a 5th round QB (and it took 3 years to finally get one), a broke-dick QB in Croyle that doesn't have a job right now, and Tyler Palko.

So yes... I think it's ridiculous to claim that Haley would keep Palko on the roster if he actually had better options to go with.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:33 AM

If Todd Haley is not fired I'll leave Chiefsplanet for a month.

Don't bother Welch we've already seen how you honor bets.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:33 AM

Don't bother Welch we've already seen how you honor bets.

I've left Chiefsplanet at least twice in the past as part of a vow I made.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:35 AM

I've left Chiefsplanet at least twice in the past as part of a vow I made.

But not the time I beat your ass before... Welch's reminds you of nothing I suppose. Naturally.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:39 AM

But not the time I beat your ass before... Welch's reminds you of nothing I suppose. Naturally.

What are you referring to?

BossChief

12-08-2011, 01:44 AM

Id love to see Haley be able to call an offense similar to the one he called in Arizona in 08 and have a quarterback that could execute it...and have this defense to compliment it.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 01:47 AM

I think thats a bullshit argument, to a degree.

If you were to tell us 3 years ago that we would take a safety top five and follow it up with a first round wide out, I would LOL @U.

Pioli has shown to be able to recognize and select the talent of the draft the last two that fits what the team needs.

I dont see anything that says he wouldn't take a first round quarterback if one is there that he believes in and sees it as a similar need as most of us do.

The big problem I have with what your saying & IMHO ~ The team has been built backwards from the perspective to build a team around the QB & not force a QB into a system just because we drafted a HOF TE in the first round. Get my point?

The Lions year after year drafted the best WR in the draft and still ended up with a 0 -16 record. Maybe they should have went out of there way to draft a QB & then found the WRs that the QB would be comfortable with. Now they drafted a QB with that first pick and suddenly even tho Stafford has the injury bug they have become a team to recon with and as long as Stafford stays on the field he can be around long enough for them to fit the rest of the pieces together yearly to improve what he has at his disposal for a threat at a Super Bowl.

I bet the Panther fans are extatically exited for next year and the years to come knowing that they get to watch a young tallent QB develop and all they have to do is find the rest of the players that best fits his streangths for success.

Dr. Johnny Fever

12-08-2011, 01:48 AM

What are you referring to?

Nothing GoChiefs... doesn't matter. It was a long time ago and I left for nearly 3 years since and have been back for months. Maybe you remember having a Welch's grape juice avatar for a while after you didn't honor the promise you made. If not, doesn't matter... just dumb internet business.

-King-

12-08-2011, 01:50 AM

Id love to see Haley be able to call an offense similar to the one he called in Arizona in 08 and have a quarterback that could execute it...and have this defense to compliment it.
Yeah I'd like the defense to compliment the offense too.

Defense: ” Hey offense, you're doing great!”
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 01:51 AM

Id love to see Haley be able to call an offense similar to the one he called in Arizona in 08 and have a quarterback that could execute it...and have this defense to compliment it.

I agree. People keep saying Haley's a horizontal guy. No, he's not. He was an aggressive playcaller in Arizona. It's clear he's going horizontal because he thinks the best opportunity to win with our QBs is to not ask the QB to make plays.

Now, you can make the argument that Haley should build a system around the QB. That's what McDaniels does. He designs a 1-read offense. I don't want that shit. I want a pro offense and if Cassel can't run it, then find someone who can't. People blame the playcalling, but what is really the problem? How many times have we seen that Cassel had an open man, but was staring down his primary read? How many times have we seen Cassel misdiagnose a blitz? How many times have we seen Cassel throw the ball 5 yards over an open receivers' head?

Give Haley a real QB. A QB that can spot the blitz, can make pre-snap adjustments, and can go through his progressions. We're not even asking for Aaron Rodgers. That's QBing 101.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 02:00 AM

The big problem I have with what your saying & IMHO ~ The team has been built backwards from the perspective to build a team around the QB & not force a QB into a system just because we drafted a HOF TE in the first round. Get my point?

The Lions year after year drafted the best WR in the draft and still ended up with a 0 -16 record. Maybe they should have went out of there way to draft a QB & then found the WRs that the QB would be comfortable with. Now they drafted a QB with that first pick and suddenly even tho Stafford has the injury bug they have become a team to recon with and as long as Stafford stays on the field he can be around long enough for them to fit the rest of the pieces together yearly to improve what he has at his disposal for a threat at a Super Bowl.

I bet the Panther fans are extatically exited for next year and the years to come knowing that they get to watch a young tallent QB develop and all they have to do is find the rest of the players that best fits his streangths for success.

Yes and no. It's an oversimplification. The goal is to become a Super Bowl team, not a good enough team. Cassel doesn't get us there, but I'm not convinced that Flacco, Sanchez, or Freeman do either. I'm also not sold at all on Cam. They're better, but guys I can rest my franchise on...?

That's why I just don't get why people are so hung up on the "first round or bust" argument. I still believe we need to draft a first round QB and give him a very competitive option. It's why I've brought up Peyton and Matt Flynn. Neither are long-term solutions (Flynn would only be a long-term solution if he proved he was a franchise QB).

BossChief

12-08-2011, 02:00 AM

Also, I wish it was illegal to type "McDaniels" on this forum.

Fuck that POS, cheating little weasel and what he would bring with him....a lot more of Cassel and Orton.

People should stop talking about him.

please.

chiefzilla1501

12-08-2011, 02:02 AM

Also, I wish it was illegal to type "McDaniels" on this forum.

**** that POS, cheating little weasel and what he would bring with him....a lot more of Cassel and Orton.

People should stop talking about him.

please.

So help me God if Haley is fired and that POS is our head coach.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 02:15 AM

I agree. People keep saying Haley's a horizontal guy. No, he's not. He was an aggressive playcaller in Arizona. It's clear he's going horizontal because he thinks the best opportunity to win with our QBs is to not ask the QB to make plays.

Now, you can make the argument that Haley should build a system around the QB. That's what McDaniels does. He designs a 1-read offense. I don't want that shit. I want a pro offense and if Cassel can't run it, then find someone who can't. People blame the playcalling, but what is really the problem? How many times have we seen that Cassel had an open man, but was staring down his primary read? How many times have we seen Cassel misdiagnose a blitz? How many times have we seen Cassel throw the ball 5 yards over an open receivers' head?

Give Haley a real QB. A QB that can spot the blitz, can make pre-snap adjustments, and can go through his progressions. We're not even asking for Aaron Rodgers. That's QBing 101.

That's why I believe it is important to draft a guy who has the potential to develop into long term form of a player your asking for. However need to play to the QBs streangths in developing that matter and adjust to his abilities with players that fit the mold. This can be a wich came first the chicken or the egg argument. I like the idea of watching a young QB or any drafted player for that matter grow into the player we expect them to turn out to be or even exeed expectations for long term success. The QB has been the most neglected position on the roster for this franchise working the draft. It shows the most when it comes to not winning playoff games or being a contender year after year for most of 40 years.

OzarksChiefsFan

12-08-2011, 02:15 AM

Playing offense to limit mistakes is yesterdays football. Any coach can win with a "real" QB (excluding Norv). When Aaron Rodgers went down last year the Packers didn't play any differently and the Lions lost Stafford and threw it downfield as much or more.

Haley makes mistakes and repeats them and stop blaming Muir. Haley is calling the plays and has for the most part since he's been here. How people think bad clock management and play calling is okay is beyond me. Why did the Ravens kick our tail in the playoffs? Sideways offense, they dared the Chiefs to throw downfield.

Joe Montana against the Oilers in the playoffs, anyone remember that game? Montana threw the ball downfield deep without connecting and forced the Oilers defense to play them honest. Without completing a pass! I'd rather have Jimmy Ray calling dive plays into the line(at least a north south gameplan) than watch the crap Haley calls. Trick plays for no reason out of the blue? Let's flea flicker the Bears because we haven't ran that play all year? Really against a team that plays cover two. I'm done with Haley. I didn't like the hire and he's been exactly what I thought he'd be.(Kudos to Dennis Green)

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 02:16 AM

I don't think there's a chance in hell the Chiefs hire McDaniels.

Would be suicide with the fans.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 02:19 AM

If McDaniels is hired as the HC, I would have to find another hobby.

Clark might even get some sporting KC fans.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 03:06 AM

Yes and no. It's an oversimplification. The goal is to become a Super Bowl team, not a good enough team. Cassel doesn't get us there, but I'm not convinced that Flacco, Sanchez, or Freeman do either. I'm also not sold at all on Cam. They're better, but guys I can rest my franchise on...?

That's why I just don't get why people are so hung up on the "first round or bust" argument. I still believe we need to draft a first round QB and give him a very competitive option. It's why I've brought up Peyton and Matt Flynn. Neither are long-term solutions (Flynn would only be a long-term solution if he proved he was a franchise QB).

I bet the Panthers win a playoff game before we do.

Tribal Warfare

12-08-2011, 03:09 AM

Haley doesn't deserve a good QB the way he's handled the Ricky Stanzi situation.

If he doesn't deserve a good QB, then he needs to get fired.

FYP

Titty Meat

12-08-2011, 03:11 AM

Yes he should be fired. To say he shouldn't wouldn't be holding him accountable and last time I checked thats not the "Patriot Way".

Results do matter and this guy has been blown out 14 times in 3 years.

The team clearly wasn't ready to start the season.

He's ran Chan Gailey and Charlie Weis out of town only to hire Bill Muir and produce the worst offense in Chiefs history.

Has made bad personal moves see: Jarred Gaither.

Horrible in game coach with bad clock management.

Hasn't developed or improved a QB.

Rasputin

12-08-2011, 03:25 AM

I'd like to see Stanzi start out in the shotgun formation giving him full view of the field, we run the draw play mostly anyways with McCluster. P Manning and Tom Brady practilly live from the shotgun and have had great success running there offense. We don't have shit for a running attack with JC gone so IMO shotgun formation with Stanzi at the healm just might be something to consider.

Never mind dumb fucking coach that is fucking dumb. PalKOed.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 04:39 AM

I don't think there's a chance in hell the Chiefs hire McDaniels.

Would be suicide with the fans.

Well, be careful what you wish for...

threebag

12-08-2011, 05:20 AM

Big mistake to remove Haley as head coach.

13and3

12-08-2011, 06:00 AM

Why can't we be patient as chiefs fans? Does someone always have to get fired? You don't see the steelers replacing coaches every 3 years. This team needs continuity.

BoneKrusher

12-08-2011, 06:40 AM

at times i think he needs to go.
i mean sometimes this team looks so unprepared with things like clock management and playcalling are terrible but in the end i think he deserves a a shot with a good QB.

for now i'm saying yes it would be a mistake.

memyselfI

12-08-2011, 07:14 AM

No, no, no, hell no...it would not be a mistake. I think Cassel and Co. deserve a shot with a REAL coach.

keg in kc

12-08-2011, 07:21 AM

Depends on how the season plays out. I think most of us expected 8-10 wins maximum. If they somehow manage to win 7 games with the injuries they've had, I don't see how you can fire him in good conscience. Less than that and I think it's probably easier to justify.

I think the real problem with this team has been behind center. Hopefully they've seen enough in 2011 to figure that one out. If it comes down to either/or, I think we're in far worse shape if Cassel's still here and starting in 2012 than we are if Haley's still coaching.

mlyonsd

12-08-2011, 07:46 AM

This is how it plays out.

If he's fired he'll be picked up by another team as a receiver coach to start, then eventually move up to HC and win a SB within 6 years.

If he stays we'll have at least 3 more years of mediocrity, sprinkled by down right crappy play and glimmers of hope.

Such is the life of a Chief fan.

memyselfI

12-08-2011, 07:54 AM

This is how it plays out.

If he's fired he'll be picked up by another team and win a SB within 6 years.

If he stays we'll have at least 3 more years of mediocrity, sprinkled by down right crappy play and glimmers of hope.

Such is the life of a Chief fan.

Fixed your post to reflect that the same could be said of Matt Cassel.

LTL

12-08-2011, 07:56 AM

I think thats a bullshit argument, to a degree.

If you were to tell us 3 years ago that we would take a safety top five and follow it up with a first round wide out, I would LOL @U.

Pioli has shown to be able to recognize and select the talent of the draft the last two that fits what the team needs.

I dont see anything that says he wouldn't take a first round quarterback if one is there that he believes in and sees it as a similar need as most of us do.

I think it's a I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to Pioli drafting a first round QB and that attitude stems from how he has handled the QB position as a whole, and up until now he hasn't seen the QB position as a weakness and I am not convinced he will even now.

In Holleys book that came out last month Pioli was quoted after the playoff game saying we were really far away from being a contender. We all seen what Cassel did that day, and yet Piolis only move was to draft a 5th rounder. I know you really like Stanzi, but if Pioli didn't see Cassel as a weakness after that game then I doubt the half season he played this year did much to change his mind.

I think it would be a mistake to fire Haley, but I get the feeling that Haley is gonna be gone and we are gonna be stuck with Cassel and a new coach. He seen Cassel do ok under McD and Weis, so I wonder if he won't see Haley as the problem more than Cassel.

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 08:06 AM

I don't see a good reason to keep Haley.

Continuing with Palko over Stanzi is grounds enough for firing for me.

Royal Fanatic

12-08-2011, 08:08 AM

I don't think there's a chance in hell the Chiefs hire McDaniels.

Would be suicide with the fans.

If McDaniels is hired as the HC, I would have to find another hobby.

Clark might even get some sporting KC fans.
How's this for a nightmare scenario:

Tim Tebow and the Broncos continue to win, thanks to Denver's defense and a weak schedule.
Pioli sees that and decides McDaniels isn't a dumbass after all for drafting Tebow, and he hires him to replace Todd Haley.
Pioli asks McDaniels who he wants as his franchise QB.
McDaniels says TEBOW!!!
John Elway and John Fox happily trade Tebow to the Chiefs, and Pioli says "We finally have our franchise QB".
Todd Haley gets hired by the Chargers, and he fixes Philip Rivers.
The Broncos draft a quarterback with the draft choice we send them for Tebow.

Arrrrgh. I think I should stop before I throw up.

Come to think of it, that's not a whole lot worse than Rich Gannon taking the Raiders to the Super Bowl and being named NFL MVP. Nightmares do happen.

jd1020

12-08-2011, 08:14 AM

I think it's a I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to Pioli drafting a first round QB and that attitude stems from how he has handled the QB position as a whole, and up until now he hasn't seen the QB position as a weakness and I am not convinced he will even now.

This makes no ****ing sense. His very first year he traded a 2nd round pick for a QB...

Tell me what QB, after that trade, improves this team. I'll be waiting for a name.

In Holleys book that came out last month Pioli was quoted after the playoff game saying we were really far away from being a contender. We all seen what Cassel did that day, and yet Piolis only move was to draft a 5th rounder. I know you really like Stanzi, but if Pioli didn't see Cassel as a weakness after that game then I doubt the half season he played this year did much to change his mind.

We were drafting late because we just came from the playoffs. All the good QB's were gone.

Everyone wants to swing from Dalton's nuts. He's beaten one team over .500 with one of the best D's in the league. He's a game manager just like Cassel. He's still young, and may be a game manager with more potential than Cassel, but thats all he is.

bricks

12-08-2011, 08:15 AM

Todd Haley is a shit coach.

There are a lot of reasons why he should be fired. Why would it be a mistake to fire him? Sure it'd be great to have a good young quarterback, but would you want a moronic coach mentoring a young quarterback? Not exactly a good situation. He should stick to coaching receivers.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 08:17 AM

This is how it plays out.

If he's fired he'll be picked up by another team as a receiver coach to start, then eventually move up to HC and win a SB within 6 years.

Based on what?

His in-game decision making?

Clock management?

Playoff/regular season record?...

jd1020

12-08-2011, 08:26 AM

Based on what?

His in-game decision making?

Clock management?

Playoff/regular season record?...

I think his staff is reason enough to fire him. Gailey, fired. Weis, brought in by Pioli, left. Haley promotes Muir, has to adjust his mic on the sideline so people can actually hear what he's saying.

LTL

12-08-2011, 08:32 AM

This makes no ****ing sense. His very first year he traded a 2nd round pick for a QB...

Tell me what QB, after that trade, improves this team. I'll be waiting for a name.

We were drafting late because we just came from the playoffs. All the good QB's were gone.

I said the QB situation as a whole, not just Cassel. We went into the season with a guy that got cut by a UFL team and a 5th rounder. You think through the draft and FA that's the best he could find?

Freeman would be better right now, he is younger and still has the chance to get better, Cassel is what he is at this point. Dalton was drafted in the early 2nd iirc, so no all the good QBs weren't gone.

I am not talking about just Cassel, talking about the position as whole. We have had shit for backups, and Pioli hasn't done much to even try to improve the situation in 3 years.

jd1020

12-08-2011, 08:33 AM

I said the QB situation as a whole, not just Cassel. We went into the season with a guy that got cut by a UFL team and a 5th rounder. You think through the draft and FA that's the best he could find?

Freeman would be better right now, he is younger and still has the chance to get better, Cassel is what he is at this point. Dalton was drafted in the early 2nd iirc, so no all the good QBs weren't gone.

I am not talking about just Cassel, talking about the position as whole. We have had shit for backups, and Pioli hasn't done much to even try to improve the situation in 3 years.

Game manager Dalton baby! Should have drafted him in the first... ****ing Pioli.

Here's Freeman's progress so far...

1st year - Awful
2nd year - Very good
3rd year - Awful

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 08:49 AM

When firing people, get rid of Zorn.

What has he done?

Cassel clearly regressed. Palko still looks like he belongs coaching high school and Stanzi obviously hasn't progressed in his development one iota. 3 strikes, you're gone.

Dave Lane

12-08-2011, 08:51 AM

Boy it's interesting to see who voted against Haley. It's like a Rogues gallery.

Dave Lane

12-08-2011, 08:52 AM

penchief

12-08-2011, 08:55 AM

Yes. He's shown signs of becoming a very good coach. If we let him go he'll end up having success somewhere else, IMO.

'Hamas' Jenkins

12-08-2011, 08:56 AM

The schedule argument doesn't fly anymore when Cutler turned into Hanie, McNabb into an even more washed up version of McNabb, Manning into Painter, Rivers into a pumpkin, and Campbell into Boller.

The 2008 Chiefs would have beaten at least three of those teams.

LTL

12-08-2011, 08:57 AM

Game manager Dalton baby! Should have drafted him in the first... ****ing Pioli.

Here''s progress so far...

1st year - Awful
2nd year - Very good
3rd year - Awful

Brady was a game manager his first year starting, so was Ben as rookie starting, that's not always a bad thing, both grew to be pretty damn good QBs.

Freeman is 23 yrs old and has room to get better and be more consistent. Next year will tell us on him.

acarter25

12-08-2011, 09:00 AM

Yes, because if you bring in another guy you have to start from square one again with a new system and you set yourself back with a group of guys that are clearly on the rise. I support Haley and always have. The only reason I would say it might not be as big of a mistake is because you know Pioli will bring in a good coach because one more "bad choice" and its probably his job. Above all I definitely want Haley back here.

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 09:02 AM

'Hamas' Jenkins

12-08-2011, 09:04 AM

This offense is at square one already.

jd1020

12-08-2011, 09:07 AM

Brady was a game manager his first year starting, so was Ben as rookie starting, that's not always a bad thing, both grew to be pretty damn good QBs.

Freeman is 23 yrs old and has room to get better and be more consistent. Next year will tell us on him.

Ummm... In his first year, Brady led a game tying drive against the Raiders to send it to OT in the playoffs and the game winning drive in the SB.

And for some reason, I don't see Dalton throwing LB's off his back any time soon.

philfree

12-08-2011, 09:10 AM

I want to see how this years draft class looks next year after a full offseason program under Haley. And IMO Pioli shouldn't fire Haley unless he has someone already in line to replace him. Firing Haley and then having to go look for a HC would be a mistake. I also want Romeo to stay put and I'm not sure he would if we change coaches unless we hire McDaniels.

Also about this years draft class. They should get to attend the rookie mini camp this year since they didn't get to last year.

Imon Yourside

12-08-2011, 09:13 AM

Haley can't keep a good OC, and insists on starting failco. That doesn't help matters much.

HemiEd

12-08-2011, 09:18 AM

So you're telling me you see the same Dwayne Bowe out there?

Because I sure don't.

Bowe is an energizer bunny typically. He looks sad these days.

That has everything to do with Huard, Thigpen, Croyle, Cassel, and now Palko.
Nothing to do with Haley. Haley has done a lot of good with Bowe. Bowe is clearly sick of substandard QB play.

acarter25

12-08-2011, 09:19 AM

The problem is that KC's offensive system is the worst system in 30 + years.

I agree, so bring in a big time OC. Which I think is something everyone will agree that this team should/will do with or without Haley here. Now, if we bring another OC and Haley runs him off then I will be more ready to fire him. Offensively yes we are horrible but we have no OC, no QB, RB is injured, and o-line is in need of help. Also, yes offense may be at square one now but with JC back, and moeaki helps more than he hurts, you already climb a ton IMO and offense isn't the only part of the team. Its the system in general that will be affected IMO, because the offense can't get much worse.

htismaqe

12-08-2011, 09:21 AM

His stubborn attachment to Tyler Palko is reason enough to fire him today.

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 09:27 AM

What's the status of Orton?

FringeNC

12-08-2011, 09:30 AM

The defensive is improving. Is it because of talent or Crennel? Could we just plug in a new coach over Crennel?

Regarding Haley, I have been a supporter, but someone has to take the blame for this embarrassing offense. Haley is supposed to be a great offensive mind. It's still possible that he is, but come on, this offensive right now is a joke. I see no reason to bring Haley back if Pioli is still attached to Cassel. Cassel and Haley don't work well together. I'd bring Haley back only if Cassel is gone.

acarter25

12-08-2011, 09:31 AM

What's the status of Orton?

This, curious as well. Haven't hardly heard a thing about it.

Coogs

12-08-2011, 09:32 AM

His stubborn attachment to Tyler Palko is reason enough to fire him today.

I think he is trying to make a point to Pioli. I just never have believed Haley wanted Cassel, and wants to prove to Pioli that a journeyman QB with no arm can accomplish pretty much everyting that Cassel can... and possibly even more with his pocket presence and scrambling ability. I think through Palko he is trying to show Pioli that we really need to upgrade the QB position, even though you spent 60+ million on Cassel.

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 09:33 AM

I don't know why this board clamors so much for a vet head coach. Esp one that has already been to the SB.

How many head coaches that have been to SB's, went to another team and took them to one?

I find it HILARIOUS that guys want to draft a QB, give him time to let him develop, but aren't willing to do that with a young coach. Talk about talking out of both sides of your ass.

Haley won last year when his QB played well. The defense has been carrying the team much of this year, and I'm not sure how many head coaches would even have the record we have right now with the guys we lost. A pro bowl safety, a pro bowl running running, and a borderline pro bowl tight end?

And some of you bitches say "I've seen enough?"

Dumbasses.

Coogs

12-08-2011, 09:33 AM

What's the status of Orton?

Day to day. He did not practice yesterday. Stanzi was the backup yesterday in paractice.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 09:33 AM

Yes. He's shown signs of becoming a very good coach. If we let him go he'll end up having success somewhere else, IMO.

Based on what?

Dead serious. WHAT has he done that's made you think he'll win games here or somewhere else?...

Rausch

12-08-2011, 09:44 AM

I don't know why this board clamors so much for a vet head coach. Esp one that has already been to the SB.

How many head coaches that have been to SB's, went to another team and took them to one?

How many QB's have won SB's with more than one team?

Yeah, stupid fucking argument.

I find it HILARIOUS that guys want to draft a QB, give him time to let him develop, but aren't willing to do that with a young coach. Talk about talking out of both sides of your ass.

No, you give them time.

Not a decade.

I think a HC deserves 3 years and I'd say the same for a top 15 pick (unless they're a total flame-out-douche like Russel or Leaf.)

It doesn't take half a fucking decade to know what you're looking at...

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 09:50 AM

How many QB's have won SB's with more than one team?

Yeah, stupid ****ing argument.

No that's a great argument as to why going after a vet QB with a SB win probably won't bode well. Thanks brainiac.

No, you give them time.

Not a decade.

I think a HC deserves 3 years and I'd say the same for a top 15 pick (unless they're a total flame-out-douche like Russel or Leaf.)

It doesn't take half a ****ing decade to know what you're looking at...

Who the F said a decade????? But yeah it sometimes takes coaches a few years to figure some things out. Most guys aren't super fucking stars in 3 seasons, esp without good quarterback play.

JFC.

Fritz88

12-08-2011, 09:50 AM

His fiery attitude is infectious and the team plays with that emotion and passion. Haleys motivational skills are up there with about anyones.

I am not sure if that's entirely accurate. A team that plays with passion is a team that does not give up easily and won't let other teams push it around on its own turf.

The games against Buffalo, 'Fins, Detriot were all instances when the players pretty much gave up. Oakland last season and San Diego. That's not passionate football. That's a sign of a lousy team.

If there's anyone who plays with heart and emotion on this team it's Matt Cassel, but does that help him win us games? No. Because he just sucks at being a QB. The players are not playing for Matt the same way Denver players and are playing for the Tebow.

The same applies to Haley, the players won't get motivated because you can't give what you lack and that is why can't be a good coach when you suck at coaching. The players know it.

Another problem is situational football and you mentioned that. It's a big issue and many crucial games are decided by careful management of 2 minutes offense and knowing when to go for it on 4th down. The guy has massively sucked at it.

His offenses have sucked monkey balls. You can't win SBs without a decent offense. The only decent offense we had was with Wies and guess what? Haley ran him out. He ran Chan out who made Tyler Thigpen a passable back up. Muir is Haley's bitch and we see how that is working for us.

Those who claim that he develops players, I will only agree with the fact that he's a proven WR groomer. Hali and DJ just needed a change of scenery to explode. Perhaps be used properly and that's what Romeo did for us. As for the other 'finds' that he got us, we have to realize that every coach is bound to find a few good players. Every coach ends up 'discovering' a couple of good talents.

Lastly, Palko. 'nough said.

Fritz88

12-08-2011, 09:57 AM

No that's a great argument as to why going after a vet QB with a SB win probably won't bode well. Thanks brainiac.

Who the F said a decade????? But yeah it sometimes takes coaches a few years to figure some things out. Most guys aren't super ****ing stars in 3 seasons, esp without good quarterback play.

JFC.

Shit. The Guardian is posting here.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/383600_235828976482483_235828539815860_581480_538929905_n.jpg

penchief

12-08-2011, 09:58 AM

Based on what?

Dead serious. WHAT has he done that's made you think he'll win games here or somewhere else?...

Player development. Young team with young players stepping up. Team chemistry. A team that overachieves. Fire in his belly. Flushing out the loser mentality that permeated the team before he got here. Not afraid to think outside of the box or take risks. Has an unshakable belief in his philosophy and is willing to stick to his guns. Takes the steady-as-she-goes approach toward fixing the team instead of the quick fix, even when under fire. Respected by his players.

Does he have lots of room to grow? Sure. Are their plenty of kinks to be ironed out? I'd say yes. But he is more than just the next guy in line, ala Gunther. He earned a name for himself at an early age for bringing something special to the table (a unique ability to maximize the potential of his players).

IMO, he has the potential to be a very good coach. And I think time will bear that out.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 09:59 AM

No that's a great argument as to why going after a vet QB with a SB win probably won't bode well. Thanks brainiac.

Ruthlessrapist, Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Elway, Montana, Steve Young, Favre, and Aikman were all total pieces of $3it after they won their first super bowl.

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 10:02 AM

Ruthlessrapist, Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Elway, Montana, Steve Young, Favre, and Aikman were all total pieces of $3it after they won their first super bowl.

I think you're missing my point.

Going after either a head coach OR a QB that won a SB elsewhere, doesn't seem to have any carryover to a new team. The odds are very much against it.

Yet people, like your dumbass, wants a "proven coach". My guess is this means a guy that has been to a SB or won one. The odds of us winning a SB with a Gruden or Cowher or someone like that are jack and shit. And jack left town.

Yet you same clowns have no problem drafting a QB and allowing him to "develop". Or so you say. I doubt that's the case and after two or three seasons you'd be saying he's a bust and this franchise sucks.

It's called being a cynic.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:07 AM

Player development. Young team with young players stepping up.

I'd disagree.

The only "young players" stepping up are on defense and most of those were drafted 4 or more years ago under a different GM/HC and reaping the wisdom of a legit DC (for a change.)

Team chemistry. A team that overachieves.

I'll stop you there.

This team has not "overachieved." Perhaps due to the lowest of expectations is one (barely) winning season achievement.

Think about it, save the year we had nearly the entire Pats SB coaching staff this team has been a big loser. The one constant over the last 3 years is that there isn't any consistency in how we play.

Phobia

12-08-2011, 10:11 AM

I think you're missing my point.

Going after either a head coach OR a QB that won a SB elsewhere, doesn't seem to have any carryover to a new team. The odds are very much against it.

Bill Parcells does not agree.

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 10:11 AM

Bill Parcells does not agree.

You're using the exception to create the rule?

HemiEd

12-08-2011, 10:12 AM

Yeah, lets start over every three years, that sounds like a road to success. Herm had three, Haley will have had three. Three years or bust dammit!

htismaqe

12-08-2011, 10:17 AM

FringeNC

12-08-2011, 10:20 AM

I like the IDEA of hiring Haley.

I'm definitely NOT a fan of the idea that we need Cowher, Fisher, or any other retread in here.

I want Sean Peyton or Jon Harbaugh. I want a young up and coming coach.

I just don't want one that thinks he needs to undertake a personal mission to prove to the world that Tyler Palko can actually play.

Given that Palko didn't throw at all in the 4th quarter suggests Haley knows Palko's limitations. I do think there is something there though -- Haley wanted to prove Cassel was the problem. Problem for Haley is that while Cassel didn't have the brains to run his offense, Palko appears not to have the arm to run any NFL offense.

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 10:21 AM

I can't imagine this team moving the ball against a Rex Ryan coached D. Revis on Bowe, Cromartie on the #2 receiver and stuff the box.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:21 AM

I think you're missing my point.

Going after either a head coach OR a QB that won a SB elsewhere, doesn't seem to have any carryover to a new team. The odds are very much against it.

The odds of any QB or HC winning more than one are slim. Same team or not.

We've had multiple HC's, as have the Lions, Browns, Oilers/Texans, and other teams unable to get over the hump.

Yet people, like your dumbass, wants a "proven coach". My guess is this means a guy that has been to a SB or won one. The odds of us winning a SB with a Gruden or Cowher or someone like that are jack and shit. And jack left town.

So you'd argue that hiring/signing someone who's never won a super bowl gives us a better chance at winning one than someone (QB or HC) than someone who has?

That's your argument?...

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 10:22 AM

Haley wanted to prove Cassel was the problem.

Where is there any proof of this? If that was the case, why wouldn't Haley have tried to get Stanzi ready to play? No coach in his right mind is going to look at Palko and say, this guy is going to prove my point.

ModSocks

12-08-2011, 10:23 AM

I'm a bit torn with Haley right now. I've been a Haley supporter since he was hired and have stuck with him for the most part until as of late. Yes, a good QB makes a big difference, but it's his fault that Palko is even in Chiefs red.

He and Pioli have seemed to hit it off as far as a talent evaluation goes for the majority of the team, but they've both failed miserably at the most crucial position.

Haley needs to make something happen with this offense in these last few weeks. Otherwise, he may be kissing his job goodbye.

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 10:24 AM

The odds of any QB or HC winning more than one are slim. Same team or not.

We've had multiple HC's, as have the Lions, Browns, Oilers/Texans, and other teams unable to get over the hump.

So you'd argue that hiring/signing someone who's never won a super bowl gives us a better chance at winning one than someone (QB or HC) than someone who has?

That's your argument?...

Well of all the SB winning head coaches in the NFL right now, how many are with their initial team?

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:28 AM

I like the IDEA of hiring Haley.

I'm definitely NOT a fan of the idea that we need Cowher, Fisher, or any other retread in here.

I'm not a big fan of Fisher but I'd go with a HC wearing a ring for the same money over a Coordinator/College coach/Prospect HC.

I just don't want one that thinks he needs to undertake a personal mission to prove to the world that Tyler Palko can actually play.

That's your your "up and coming HC."

Haley's dumb azz is just the brilliant young mind you're throwing the dice on...

RealSNR

12-08-2011, 10:28 AM

Well of all the SB winning head coaches in the NFL right now, how many are with their initial team?McCarthy, Payton, Tomlin.

That's it.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:34 AM

Well of all the SB winning head coaches in the NFL right now, how many are with their initial team?

Most of them.

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 10:35 AM

McCarthy, Payton, Tomlin.

That's it.

Ok let's do this....over the last 20 years.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:38 AM

Ok let's do this....over the last 20 years.

And you would pick whom for the next HC?

Ok, let's do this...(edit: pick 4)

TheGuardian

12-08-2011, 10:41 AM

And you would pick whom for the next HC?

Ok, let's do this...(edit: pick 4)

I guess what I am getting at is, we are almost ASSURED that we won't get to a SB with a retread. Same thing with a QB. It just doesn't happen much.

I'll take my chances with Haley and drafting him a guy that looks like a potential franchise QB.

to me this sounds like a good plan.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 10:42 AM

Dont worry haley not getting fired.

Phobia

12-08-2011, 10:43 AM

You're using the exception to create the rule?

No. I'm just throwing out a name. Dick Vermeil is another exception. It happens. But SuperBowl QB's tend to stay with their original teams and coaches bouncing all over the place every 2-3 years is still a relatively new thing. I just don't think there's enough data to accurately determine whether a QB in his prime can go to a SB with multiple teams.

Brock

12-08-2011, 10:43 AM

Dont worry haley not getting fired.

You keep saying that, but you don't really have anything to back it up with.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 10:52 AM

I guess what I am getting at is, we are almost ASSURED that we won't get to a SB with a retread. Same thing with a QB. It just doesn't happen much.

I'll take my chances with Haley and drafting him a guy that looks like a potential franchise QB.

to me this sounds like a good plan.

No, you feel I'm wrong and you're right.

That's fine.

The answer is not in a HC/QB that's won a SB.

So pick the next one more likely that will...

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 10:53 AM

You keep saying that, but you don't really have anything to back it up with.

and people keep saying he is getting fired with nothing to so whats your point?

Brock

12-08-2011, 10:56 AM

and people keep saying he is getting fired with nothing to so whats your point?

"With nothing"? This season is not "nothing". Past behavior of NFL teams is not "nothing".

Like I've said before, the only reason he wouldn't be fired is because Clark doesn't want to pay him for a year to do nothing.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 11:00 AM

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 11:03 AM

"With nothing"? This season is not "nothing". Past behavior of NFL teams is not "nothing".

Like I've said before, the only reason he wouldn't be fired is because Clark doesn't want to pay him for a year to do nothing.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1151629270001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAA_ArtWrE~,jkJKBg4uoIQAm319dkOjczPmjxVbdqsd&bclid=1083293977001&bctid=1314867809001

If Haley is fired he will be a HOT COMMODITY

Rausch

12-08-2011, 11:07 AM

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1151629270001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAA_ArtWrE~,jkJKBg4uoIQAm319dkOjczPmjxVbdqsd&bclid=1083293977001&bctid=1314867809001

If Haley is fired he will be a HOT COMMODITY

...

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad158/FrankRob/WellBye.jpg

Okie_Apparition

12-08-2011, 11:38 AM

The last time the Chiefs' GM & his head coach were at odds, according to the media. Both ended up getting fired.
That's not happening again, so soon

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 12:10 PM

How many QB's have won SB's with more than one team?

Yeah, stupid fucking argument.

No, you give them time.

Not a decade.

I think a HC deserves 3 years and I'd say the same for a top 15 pick (unless they're a total flame-out-douche like Russel or Leaf.)

It doesn't take half a fucking decade to know what you're looking at...It took Cowher 15 yrs to win the SB. (Win=Officials gift)

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 12:17 PM

No, no, no, hell no...it would not be a mistake. I think Cassel and Co. deserve a shot with a REAL coach.

Cassel LMAO

Mr. Laz

12-08-2011, 12:18 PM

Rausch

12-08-2011, 12:29 PM

It took Cowher 15 yrs to win the SB. (Win=Officials gift)

Let's take that away.

Let's say the Seahawks won.

His coordinators (his coaching tree) still went on to be HC's.

They flamed out. Agreed.

Dom Capers held on too long to Kerry Collins. Dick Lebeau went tits-up with the Bengals. Chan Gailey couldn't get the Cowboys on track.

A decade later they're all looking a helluva' lot better in retrospect.

Gailey is the only one not to win a SB and Dick is in the HOF AS AN ACTIVE COACH.

THAT IS COACHING.

We might have that in our DC. He's the only one I truly believe hasn't pushed his chips in...

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:42 PM

Retread coaches who won Super Bowls:

Weeb Ewbank
Don Shula
Mike Shanahan
Dick Vermeil
Jon Gruden
Bill Belichick
Tony Dungy
Tom Coughlin

Eight retread coaches out of 30 Super Bowl winners accounted for 12 Super Bowl wins. Those odds aren't horrible.

I kinda want to add Marv Levy to that list, too, because they only lost 4 Super Bowls because of extremely long odds.

bricks

12-08-2011, 12:43 PM

lose/lose situation

If we keep him and he won't allow a real OC to come on board then it's no telling how long it will be before he grows up and figures out how to run things. If ever.

If we fire him then it's another transitional period and another couple of steps backward.

it's a messed up situation

It's a real messed up situation. I agree w/ you Laz. I wouldn't really want to see another transitional period going on if the Chiefs ever decided to fire him. Bring a new coach in, and pretty much this whole entire staff is gone. There are some coaches on this staff that are worthy of keeping.

My point is, new coach=new coaching staff=installment of a new system=new players.

Chiefs already have a core. Especially on defense. I wouldn't want to see that core disrupted. Id like to see them hire within. I think Romeo would be ideal. I know a lot of people would oppose this, but, at least he could keep his defensive system here and maintain the same players. And at least those players wouldn't have to learn a new scheme. Bring in a well established QB like Peyton(if available/healthy) and let him bring his own offensive system in here. The defensive guy can do his own thing and the offensive guy can also do his own thing.

This is a perfect idea. No conflicts. Its a perfect situation for the Chiefs! They get that QB to get them over that hump and help them compete. And at the same time, they have an offensive mastermind at the helm. No big heads clashing at each other. One guy specializes in one area, the other guy specializes in another area. And both Manning & Romeo are excellent tactitions.

DeezNutz

12-08-2011, 12:44 PM

Of course. We need the third clown to form the triumvirate.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:47 PM

Chiefs already have a core. Especially on defense. I wouldn't want to see that core disrupted.

The new coach is not going to be dumb enough to dump talented players.

Okie_Apparition

12-08-2011, 12:55 PM

Herm might actually get to a super bowl as HC of the Steelers
It's the organization & of course they would know better than to try

Rausch

12-08-2011, 12:56 PM

Herm might actually get to a super bowl as HC of the Steelers

Herm wouldn't be promoted above scout for the Steelers...

Rausch

12-08-2011, 12:57 PM

The new coach is not going to be dumb enough to dump talented players.

LMAO

bricks

12-08-2011, 12:57 PM

The new coach is not going to be dumb enough to dump talented players.

Even if he doesn't, the players will probably have to learn a different scheme. I'm content with this current defense and the scheme they have in place. Imo, you get a new coaching staff, transition is most likely to happen one way or another. The only thing I'm wondering is, are the players on defense versatile when it comes to playing in different schemes.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 12:59 PM

Even if he doesn't, the players will probably have to learn a different scheme. I'm content with this current defense and the scheme they have in place. Imo, you get a new coaching staff, transition is most likely to happen one way or another. The only thing I'm wondering is, are the players on defense versatile when it comes to schemes.

It's not like we're going to be switching to the 4-3.

We have enough talent on D that we're going to be fine. It's not like this is the #1 or even a top 10 D at the moment.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 01:00 PM

Even if he doesn't, the players will probably have to learn a different scheme. I'm content...

:eek:

http://captionsearch.com/pix/thumb/be0ua5ovm8-t.jpg

SenselessChiefsFan

12-08-2011, 01:00 PM

It will not be a mistake when Pioli fires Haley. Not because he isn't a good coach. Because he is a petulant child who is a control freak.

saphojunkie

12-08-2011, 01:01 PM

You're using the exception to create the rule?

The rule is that no coach in NFL history has WON a superbowl with two different teams.

No one.

They have gone and lost, then won with another team.

They have won, and then gone and lost.

No one has won, gone, and won again.

Cowher=historically bad decision for a team that wants a title.

Okie_Apparition

12-08-2011, 01:03 PM

Who's to say Pioli isn't the control freak & goes out & hires a Norv jr

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:03 PM

The rule is that no coach in NFL history has WON a superbowl with two different teams.

No one.

They have gone and lost, then won with another team.

They have won, and then gone and lost.

No one has won, gone, and won again.

Cowher=historically bad decision for a team that wants a title.

I agree with this.

I'm fine with hiring a head coach who has been fired by, or retired from, another team, though.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 01:04 PM

I agree with this.

I'm fine with hiring a head coach who has been fired by, or retired from, another team, though.

Gonna be pissed when haley is here next year.

whoman69

12-08-2011, 01:12 PM

Rausch

12-08-2011, 01:12 PM

The rule is that no coach in NFL history has WON a superbowl with two different teams.

No one.

No, they haven't.

But they've been to 2 more than we have in the last 35 years.

Cowher=historically bad decision for a team that wants a title.

Unless you happen to be the team he did win a title for.

Then it's pretty cool.

I hear.

I wouldn't know.

My team hasn't won one since my dad hit puberty...

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:13 PM

None of these retreads had a Super Bowl win with their previous team. Many had a Super Bowl Loss and were still hungry.

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/jeff-fisher.jpg

Rausch

12-08-2011, 01:14 PM

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/jeff-fisher.jpg

Do not want but still > Haley...

jd1020

12-08-2011, 01:16 PM

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/jeff-fisher.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KnzUR5qdzMY/Tcs8Vu-xotI/AAAAAAAAFdg/QTZuJIibxuU/s400/andy-reid.jpg

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:16 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KnzUR5qdzMY/Tcs8Vu-xotI/AAAAAAAAFdg/QTZuJIibxuU/s400/andy-reid.jpg

Would be ecstatic but I think he's staying in PHI.

jd1020

12-08-2011, 01:18 PM

Would be ecstatic but I think he's staying in PHI.

I was just pointing out his qualifications for the "SB loss and still hungry."

I don't expect him to be the next Chiefs HC.

Mr. Laz

12-08-2011, 01:29 PM

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/jeff-fisher.jpg
except for he is a defensive coach and likes a 4-3 so if he were to come to the Chiefs then Crennel would be gone and we would switch back to a 4-3 defense that i don't think Pioli prefers.

it would be a total gutting

Imo we need a offensive minded HC that wouldn't mind Crennel staying with the defense or promoting Crennel and hiring the best OC we can find.

ugh ... it's a train wreck.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 01:46 PM

It will not be a mistake when Pioli fires Haley. Not because he isn't a good coach. Because he is a petulant child who is a control freak.

LMAO You just described every HC in the NFL.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 01:52 PM

LMAO You just described every HC in the NFL.

and Pioli.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 01:52 PM

Every head coach is not a petulant child and nor is Pioli.

Haley definitely is. He borders on insanity.

Rausch

12-08-2011, 01:56 PM

Would be ecstatic but I think he's staying in PHI.

BECAUSE MOST OF HIS KIDS ARE ON ANKLETS THERE!

Rausch

12-08-2011, 01:57 PM

Every head coach is not a petulant child and nor is Pioli.

Haley definitely is. He borders on insanity.

So, now?

Really?...

suds79

12-08-2011, 02:00 PM

Imo we need a offensive minded HC that wouldn't mind Crennel staying with the defense or promoting Crennel and hiring the best OC we can find.

Does not the simplest solution not seem to be just letting Todd Haley be the HC & OC? Or at least the HC & playcaller for Sundays.

memyselfI

12-08-2011, 02:02 PM

Does not the simplest solution not seem to be just letting Todd Haley be the HC & OC? Or at least the HC & playcaller for Sundays.

Because he's such a brilliant successful offensive mind?

memyselfI

12-08-2011, 02:03 PM

It will not be a mistake when Pioli fires Haley. Not because he isn't a good coach. Because he is a petulant child who is a control freak.

This. Which will ultimately prevent him from ever becoming a successful good coach.

suds79

12-08-2011, 02:20 PM

Because he's such a brilliant successful offensive mind?

Because yes he is a good coach. Offense is is specialty.

He seemingly can't get along with other OCs probably because he wants to call plays and mettle. So let him take full responsibility. If he fails, he's got no one else to blame.

Unless you voted fire him, I don't see any other way about it.

Brock

12-08-2011, 02:24 PM

Because yes he is a good coach. Offense is is specialty.

Sounds like a big time fail, then.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 02:25 PM

Let's say you were Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli, and you're ready to move on from Matt Cassel.

Would you really trust a guy like Todd Haley with a rookie quarterback's development?

No fucking way.

ChiefsCountry

12-08-2011, 02:28 PM

After seeing who voted in the poll to fire Haley, its pretty clear he should stay.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 02:28 PM

After seeing who voted in the poll to fire Haley, its pretty clear he should stay.

Amen

suds79

12-08-2011, 02:32 PM

Sounds like a big time fail, then.

Really? What coach could scheme around the talent that is left on O with all the injuries they've had?

Possibly the best RB in football and the guy the offense is centered around? Gone.

Good, young TE who makes for nice short throws over the middle for our noodle armed, inaccurate QB? Gone.

That same noodle armed, inaccurate QB gets injured leading to an even worse QB up next.

What were you expecting?

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 02:35 PM

I ask all the people that want haley gone.DO you all think Raheem Morris should be fired? cause haley is out coaching him this year.

suds79

12-08-2011, 02:37 PM

I ask all the people that want haley gone.DO you all think Raheem Morris should be fired? cause haley is out coaching him this year.

I think it's also fair to ask...

Do you prefer Josh McDaniels or Romeo Crennel as the HC?

Because that's what we'd get. To even mention a Jeff Fisher or (insert any big name) is laughable. Scott would never do it.

If that leads someone to say "Well then Scott is the problem."... Exactly.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 02:39 PM

I ask all the people that want haley gone.DO you all think Raheem Morris should be fired? cause haley is out coaching him this year.

Raheem Morris isn't a fucking nutcase.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 02:39 PM

Do you prefer Josh McDaniels or Romeo Crennel as the HC?

Those guys are not going to be coaching the Chiefs next year.

Brock

12-08-2011, 02:40 PM

Really? What coach could scheme around the talent that is left on O with all the injuries they've had?

Possibly the best RB in football and the guy the offense is centered around? Gone.

Good, young TE who makes for nice short throws over the middle for our noodle armed, inaccurate QB? Gone.

That same noodle armed, inaccurate QB gets injured leading to an even worse QB up next.

What were you expecting?

Not the worst offense in franchise history. Chan Gailey did more with the same or less.

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 02:40 PM

Raheem Morris isn't a ****ing nutcase.

He has done everything haley has.Haley has fed up the OC and morris has fired the same amount of DC.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 02:42 PM

After seeing who voted in the poll to fire Haley, its pretty clear he should stay.

LOL ouch

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 02:42 PM

He seemingly can't get along with other OCs probably because he wants to call plays and mettle. So let him take full responsibility. If he fails, he's got no one else to blame.

.

Isn't that happening now??

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 02:42 PM

Raheem Morris isn't a ****ing nutcase.

Yes cause haley is clearly a nutcase.What a joke you are.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 02:43 PM

Those guys are not going to be coaching the Chiefs next year.

That's correct, Haley will still be here.

Tribal Warfare

12-08-2011, 02:49 PM

It's simple as this Haley "outsmarted" himself with the short TC practice field preseason game strategy, hence in the beginning of the year we were out of shape and got killed by injuries, the Gaither thing pisses me off to no end considering how well he performed for SD while only being on the team for only week after being cut by the Chiefs. I can understand why Haley started Palko in the beginning and why they got Orton but after seeing Palko totally stink it up Haley should've allowed Stanzi to get his shot. ( fuck at least have all three QB's active during games) The way he's handling the QB situation is what really gets me.

suds79

12-08-2011, 02:49 PM

Isn't that happening now??

Probably, but somehow Bill Muir has a role in what's already a mess within the play calling system.

Todd really dropped the ball the way I see it when he named Bill Muir as the playcaller at the beginning of the season. That was a bad move.

Just get that old guy out of the way and run the show instead of barging in an taking it over mid season.

-King-

12-08-2011, 02:56 PM

Would be ecstatic but I think he's staying in PHI.

He's lost like 20 games more than he has won against playoff opponents. He can die in a fire. His record is like 22-44 the past 10 years against teams that made the playoffs.
Posted via Mobile Device

ShowtimeSBMVP

12-08-2011, 02:57 PM

http://www.bbs.tbaybucs.com/index.php?/topic/12081-fire-raheem/

Buc fans think the the team has quit on morris can you say that about haley?

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:06 PM

Let's say you were Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli, and you're ready to move on from Matt Cassel.

Would you really trust a guy like Todd Haley with a rookie quarterback's development?

No ****ing way.

Yes, I would. Because I am a rational human being, I have formed an objective and educated opinion on the subject.

You, on the other hand, are a wishy-washy and impulsive parasite who allows his emotions to complete skew which facts you will acknowledge and which you will ignore.

durtyrute

12-08-2011, 03:09 PM

We don't need a new HC, we need a new OC and a QB, ASAP, FTW!

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 03:10 PM

Yes, I would. Because I am a rational human being, I have formed an objective and educated opinion on the subject.

I have seen nothing in three years that indicates Haley would be a good coach for a rookie QB. I have seen a lot that indicates he would be freaking terrible in such a situation.

There's no emotion here.

Tell me why he would be a good guy to develop a rookie. And don't bring up Derrick Johnson or Dwayne Bowe, because that's bullshit.

Chiefnj2

12-08-2011, 03:11 PM

Clark loves this fan base. Happy with crap because "it could be worse ... McDaniels."

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:17 PM

I have seen nothing in three years that indicates Haley would be a good coach for a rookie QB. I have seen a lot that indicates he would be freaking terrible in such a situation.

There's no emotion here.

Tell me why he would be a good guy to develop a rookie. And don't bring up Derrick Johnson or Dwayne Bowe, because that's bullshit.

Players perform for Todd Haley. His entire career has been about developing guys into the best players they can be. I can skip over the Chiefs he has already done this for and go straight to Fitz, Boldin, Breaston, Warner, Keyshawn, etc.

Who would be better for a rookie QB than someone who is going to teach him to be disciplined and well-studied? Further, if he gets a guy with an accurate deep ball, Haley will be able to integrate the deep pass into his offense. Given the number of weapons which will be at his disposal, our offense will be difficult to stop and impossible to bullseye.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 03:19 PM

Players perform for Todd Haley.

Just not Chiefs QBs, huh?

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:21 PM

Just not Chiefs QBs, huh?

Please. Nobody could get the current Chiefs QBs to perform. Retarded arguments like this are exactly what I was referring to earlier, btw.

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 03:21 PM

Just not Chiefs QBs, huh?

LOL WUT

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:21 PM

LOL WUT

INORITE?

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 03:22 PM

Please. Nobody could get the current Chiefs QBs to perform.

http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/joshmcdaniels4.jpg

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:25 PM

http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/joshmcdaniels4.jpg

Again with retarded arguments. Cassel performed just as well under McDaniels in 2008 as he did under Haley in 2010. (You remember, back when you were a Cassel nutlicker?) You know what those teams had in common? Weak schedules. Cassel can only beat shitty teams. It's a well-established fact.

Brock

12-08-2011, 03:25 PM

Clark loves this fan base. Happy with crap because "it could be worse ... McDaniels."

What's the problem? They were doing great before the injuries!

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 03:27 PM

Explain how completing 63 percent of your passes equates with completing 58 percent of your passes.

Besides, we both know Weis gets all the credit for making Cassel "less than shitty."

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 03:29 PM

Explain how completing 63 percent of your passes equates with completing 58 percent of your passes.

Besides, we both know Weis gets all the credit for making Cassel "less than shitty."

ROFL I like how you are defining Cassel's success in terms of completion percentage. Cassel had far more touchdowns and fewer turnovers with the Chiefs in 2010 than with the Patriots in 2008.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 03:30 PM

ROFL I like how you are defining Cassel's success in terms of completion percentage. Cassel had far more touchdowns and fewer turnovers with the Chiefs in 2010 than with the Patriots in 2008.

Again, Weis.

Funny how when you remove Weis or McDaniels from the equation, Cassel has been just about the worst QB in the NFL. 26 TD and 30 INT in those two seasons with Haley screaming profanities in his ear constantly. Good god.

ChiefsCountry

12-08-2011, 03:48 PM

LOL ouch

Seriousally look at the list who voted for to be fired. I count maybe 4 to 5 that I would listen to their football takes/respect their knowledge.

whoman69

12-08-2011, 04:02 PM

http://helmet2helmet.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/jeff-fisher.jpg

Do you think Jeff Fisher is still hungry? All of those coaches had another thing in common, they were still fairly young except Vermeil who took more than 15 years off. Fisher was the longest tenured coach in the league when he was fired.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 04:03 PM

His stubborn attachment to Tyler Palko is reason enough to fire him today.I know I have a certain level of bias on this subject, so I have chosen to leave that aspect out of the equation.

Let's say you were Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli, and you're ready to move on from Matt Cassel.

Would you really trust a guy like Todd Haley with a rookie quarterback's development?

No fucking way.

Why not?

Shit, even Kurt Warner publicly praised Haleys ability to get his game to the next level. I think the level of patience he showed through his time with Cassel shows he would do the same for a young signal caller.

There is nothing I see from Haley that would indicate he would ruin a rookie quarterback.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 04:06 PM

There is nothing I see from Haley that would indicate he would ruin a rookie quarterback.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/170477/2dalnac_medium.gif

Brock

12-08-2011, 04:07 PM

Shit, even Kurt Warner publicly praised Haleys ability to get his game to the next level.

Kurt Warner thinks Matt Cassel is a good QB.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 04:10 PM

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/170477/2dalnac_medium.gif

After you are done posting stuff that works in my arguments favor, you can start defending yourself.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 04:14 PM

After you are done posting stuff that works in my arguments favor, you can start defending yourself.

How does that work in your favor?

Haley would rather spit vitriol than actually coach quarterbacks.

This is not up for debate. There is a mountain of evidence.

Mr. Laz

12-08-2011, 04:15 PM

I know I have a certain level of bias on this subject, so I have chosen to leave that aspect out of the equation.

Why not?

Shit, even Kurt Warner publicly praised Haleys ability to get his game to the next level. I think the level of patience he showed through his time with Cassel shows he would do the same for a young signal caller.

There is nothing I see from Haley that would indicate he would ruin a rookie quarterback.
there is NOTHING to indicate that Haley can develop a QB either.

Before Kansas City:
Haley had never developed a QB
Haley had never installed an offense at ANY level of football
Haley had never even put together the personnel of an offense.

Haley inherited a ready-made offense with a superbowl winning QB,2 probowl receivers ... all under an offensive minded head coach. He did this for all of 18 months in his only experience at the coordinator level in the NFL or at any level for that matter.

All that and it didn't even touch upon the question whether he has the social skills or maturity to get the job done or not.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 04:16 PM

BigMeatballDave

12-08-2011, 04:33 PM

How does that work in your favor?

Haley would rather spit vitriol than actually coach quarterbacks.

This is not up for debate. There is a mountain of evidence.

OMGWTFBBQ

No HC in the history of the NFL has ever done this.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 04:33 PM

How does that work in your favor?

Haley would rather spit vitriol than actually coach quarterbacks.

This is not up for debate. There is a mountain of evidence.

He strongly emphasized what Brodie needed to do in that situation if he ever wants to have a chance.

FFS iirc Croyle let the play clock run out on a crucial down.

Are you saying he should have done the opposite of what Jimmy Johnson says in your quote of him?

BossChief

12-08-2011, 04:37 PM

there is NOTHING to indicate that Haley can develop a QB either.

Before Kansas City:
Haley had never developed a QB
Haley had never installed an offense at ANY level of football
Haley had never even put together the personnel of an offense.

Haley inherited a ready-made offense with a superbowl winning QB,2 probowl receivers ... all under an offensive minded head coach. He did this for all of 18 months in his only experience at the coordinator level in the NFL or at any level for that matter.

All that and it didn't even touch upon the question whether he has the social skills or maturity to get the job done or not.

Yeah, Fitz and Warner obviously thought he had nothing to do with any of that superbowl run.

BOTH praised Haley endlessly in the public for his coaching and motivational abilities.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 04:38 PM

He strongly emphasized what Brodie needed to do in that situation if he ever wants to have a chance.

FFS iirc Croyle let the play clock run out on a crucial down.

Are you saying he should have done the opposite of what Jimmy Johnson says in your quote of him?

I'm suggesting Haley has a long and stupid history of being an idiot instead of actually coaching.

He belittles and insults players when they fuck up.

I have to believe he'd do permanent damage to a young quarterback's mental makeup.

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 04:40 PM

"Treat a player as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a player as if he were what he
could be and should be and he will become what he could be and should be."

- Jimmy Johnson

Todd Haley would rather just call the QB a ****ing pussy.

You don't have any clue what goes on during practice or in the lockerroom or really outside of a few .gif lip readings. Key point bolded for emphasis. Clearly this is YET ANOTHER example of you allowing your emotions to cloud whatever logical capability you have.

Hammock Parties

12-08-2011, 04:42 PM

You don't have any clue what goes on during practice or in the lockerroom or really outside of a few .gif lip readings. Key point bolded for emphasis. Clearly this is YET ANOTHER example of you allowing your emotions to cloud whatever logical capability you have.

Do you have evidence from the last three seasons that suggests Haley could be a good coach for a young QB?

All I see is an asshole who can't control his rage, and shitty quarterbacks.

BossChief

12-08-2011, 04:42 PM

I'm suggesting Haley has a long and stupid history of being an idiot instead of actually coaching.

He belittles and insults players when they fuck up.

I have to believe he'd do permanent damage to a young quarterback's mental makeup.

"Don't let ME break you"

If his style would "ruin" a young quarterback, he was never the young quarterback that could lead us to a superbowl win.

"oh noes, Todd Haley is yelling at a player for totally fucking up a game situation"

Gimme a break.

Nightfyre

12-08-2011, 04:43 PM

I'm suggesting Haley has a long and stupid history of being an idiot instead of actually coaching.

He belittles and insults players when they **** up.

I have to believe he'd do permanent damage to a young quarterback's mental makeup.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Young QBs can't face a little adversity from their superiors? Their poor wittle egos would just cwack under the pwessure! This is exactly how the military trains its leaders you dumbfuck. Leaders are born in the fires of high-stress, high-pressure environments, not in fucking candyland after riding a unicorn.