Jadeveon Clowney should lawyer up, challenge nonsensical 'three-years-out' rule

[htismaqe]

Look im for drafting Geno Smith especially with the current crop of guys but if Clowney were to enter that changes. I still think Barkley, Wilson, and even Glennon in the right situation could all be good QB's.

None of those guys are available after about pick 20.

Do you think Nassib, Dysert, and Bray can be good QBs? Because you're picking over garbage at 2-2.

[htismaqe]

Barkley will prove you wrong

We're not trading up from 2-2 ALL THE WAY to the 10-14 range, which is about as far as Barkley will likely fall.

This idea that we could take someone else at #1 and then trade to #24 and get Barkley is fantasy talk.

[htismaqe]

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Oh, and the Chiefs will also lose half their fan base if they don't draft one first overall.

:facepalm:

You know, I wasn't gonna say anything but this is just bullshit.

YOU FUCKING RAN PEOPLE OFF THIS BOARD WITH YOUR BULLSHIT ABOUT MARK SANCHEZ.

And now you're gonna act all high and mighty because you just happen to not be educated on this year's QB class?

You know what? FUCK YOU

This is like the US government poisoning every body of water in the western hemisphere and then trying to make it illegal for developing countries to develop because they might repeat the same mistakes.

Get off your high horse.

[The Bad Guy]

So where we getting our QB? Second round? You comfortable with that? Based on the evaluations of this QB class we could be picking a prospect in the realm of Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round this year.

**** that shit. We have a lethal dose of outside pass rushing talent on this team. Jadaveon Clowney takes us from a good pass rush to a great pass rush...well we had that for MOST OF THE 90s and it got us a lot of season ticket renewals and **** all else. And that was with COMPETENT QB play.

I'm comfortable trusting a guy who has groomed QBs for the last 14 years to do the same here and don't carry your same "#1 QB or bust" rant. He's not from some phony tree. He's established and he knows QB play. If the Chiefs kept Romeo, I would see that point. But Reid can coach QBs and I'll trust his evaluations until he proves to me here he can't.

And I don't agree we have a "lethal" dose. We have 2 players who can rush the QB. That's it. I also don't trust that Hali will have a long shelf life.

[htismaqe]

I'm comfortable trusting a guy who has groomed QBs for the last 14 years to do the same here and don't carry your same "#1 QB or bust" rant. He's not from some phony tree. He's established and he knows QB play. If the Chiefs kept Romeo, I would see that point. But Reid can coach QBs and I'll trust his evaluations until he proves to me here he can't.

And I don't agree we have a "lethal" dose. We have 2 players who can rush the QB. That's it. I also don't trust that Hali will have a long shelf life.

What QB has he actually groomed into a real bonafide starter? Donovan McNabb was the #2 pick overall.

That's pretty much it.

[Coogs]

We're not trading up from 2-2 ALL THE WAY to the 10-14 range, which is about as far as Barkley will likely fall.

This idea that we could take someone else at #1 and then trade to #24 and get Barkley is fantasy talk.

It's mind boggling to me why some would even want to consider this.

Staying put, taking the best QB and having all of our draft picks

vs

taking some other position, spending other draft picks to move up and take a lesser QB.

[DaKCMan AP]

It's mind boggling to me why some would even want to consider this.

Staying put, taking the best QB and having all of our draft picks

vs

taking some other position, spending other draft picks to move up and take a lesser QB.

Especially in a year where there's not exactly an elite talent at some other position.

[The Bad Guy]

You know, I wasn't gonna say anything but this is just bullshit.

YOU ****ING RAN PEOPLE OFF THIS BOARD WITH YOUR BULLSHIT ABOUT MARK SANCHEZ.

And now you're gonna act all high and mighty because you just happen to not be educated on this year's QB class?

You know what? **** YOU

This is like the US government poisoning every body of water in the western hemisphere and then trying to make it illegal for developing countries to develop because they might repeat the same mistakes.

Get off your high horse.

So people who don't think Geno Smith is going to pan out aren't educated on the QB class?

[The Bad Guy]

Especially in a year where there's not exactly an elite talent at some other position.

Be careful. The Geno militia will be by shortly to scold you.

[htismaqe]

So people who don't think Geno Smith is going to pan out aren't educated on the QB class?

Was I talking to you? Was I talking to ANYONE other than Dane?

Dude, you acting like this is THE reason the Geno Smith fans are the way they are.

[htismaqe]

Be careful. The Geno militia will be by shortly to scold you.

Methinks you need to read what he said again.

[Molitoth]

The Chiefs would be a super bowl team with 11 pass rushers. Let's draft them all. We don't need a QB, especially one that has the same skin color as Vince Young and Jamarcus Russel.

[The Bad Guy]

None of those guys are available after about pick 20.

Do you think Nassib, Dysert, and Bray can be good QBs? Because you're picking over garbage at 2-2.

I think Bray would have the best shot there.

I also don't agree with this that they all will be gone by 20.

In a draft where QB's flew off quick, Kaepernick was sitting there at the top of the 2nd round. He was projected to go earlier and didn't.

[htismaqe]

Especially in a year where there's not exactly an elite talent at some other position.

Luke Joeckel is a once-in-a-decade prospect!

[Hammock Parties]

After months of shitting all over this QB draft class, now we're discussing the merits of trading back into the 1st for one of these guys.

LMAO

THE TRUE FAN SLEEPS WITHIN YOU

[Coogs]

Be careful. The Geno militia will be by shortly to scold you.



That's not exactly what I mean.

It's the "value" thing that gets thrown around here. Smith at #1 has no value...

yet trading multiple draft picks to move up and get a QB at #20, give or take a few slots, just because that is where he is slotted makes sense.

Not to me.

[htismaqe]

I think Bray would have the best shot there.

I also don't agree with this that they all will be gone by 20.

In a draft where QB's flew off quick, Kaepernick was sitting there at the top of the 2nd round. He was projected to go earlier and didn't.

Kaepernick went in the 2nd because nobody really know what he was. Nobody, not even Jim Harbaugh, knew he was this.

Guys like that aren't going to fall anymore. Teams can't afford to miss out on the Russell Wilson's of the world.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm comfortable trusting a guy who has groomed QBs for the last 14 years to do the same here

LMAO

How well did Brohm and Kolb workout for Dorsey and Reid in GB and PHI?

2nd round QBs are gutter trash.

[Hammock Parties]

You know, I wasn't gonna say anything but this is just bullshit.

YOU FUCKING RAN PEOPLE OFF THIS BOARD WITH YOUR BULLSHIT ABOUT MARK SANCHEZ.

And now you're gonna act all high and mighty because you just happen to not be educated on this year's QB class?

You know what? FUCK YOU

This is like the US government poisoning every body of water in the western hemisphere and then trying to make it illegal for developing countries to develop because they might repeat the same mistakes.

Get off your high horse.

Mark Sanchez could be Trent Green 2.0!

[htismaqe]

That's not exactly what I mean.

It's the "value" thing that gets thrown around here. Smith at #1 has no value...

yet trading multiple draft picks to move up and get a QB at #20, give or take a few slots, just because that is where he is slotted makes sense.

Not to me.

That's not even value at all.

If you fill your pockets with nickels and head out to the slot machines only to find out that their out of order and you're stuck with 50 pounds of nickels in your pocket, how is that VALUE?

[The Bad Guy]

Was I talking to you? Was I talking to ANYONE other than Dane?

Dude, you acting like this is THE reason the Geno Smith fans are the way they are.

No, you weren't talking to me. And while most of that post has some validity, I don't know that saying he's uneducated on the Qb class is accurate though.

There's some people that actually do watch games, study players that just aren't sold on Smith, Barkley and Wilson.

I'm with all of you that if we are #1 and things stay the way they are, they have to take Smith. However, Clowney changes that for me if by some miracle he's in.

[htismaqe]

LMAO

How well did Brohm and Kolb workout for Dorsey and Reid in GB and PHI?

2nd round QBs are gutter trash.

Dude, stop.

At least TRY not to jump the shark.

[Hammock Parties]

That's not exactly what I mean.

It's the "value" thing that gets thrown around here. Smith at #1 has no value...

yet trading multiple draft picks to move up and get a QB at #20, give or take a few slots, just because that is where he is slotted makes sense.

Not to me.

It's utterly hilarious.

Geno is too risky at 1! So let's trade #34 and next year's 1st rounder (in all likelihood) for Tyler Bray! LMAO

[htismaqe]

No, you weren't talking to me. And while most of that post has some validity, I don't know that saying he's uneducated on the Qb class is accurate though.

Because he said he isn't.

He's said several times he hasn't watched many of these guys play.

[Coogs]

That's not even value at all.

If you fill your pockets with nickels and head out to the slot machines only to find out that their out of order and you're stuck with 50 pounds of nickels in your pocket, how is that VALUE?

Exactly!

[The Bad Guy]

LMAO

How well did Brohm and Kolb workout for Dorsey and Reid in GB and PHI?

2nd round QBs are gutter trash.

Well being that he was able to flip Kolb for more compensation than he was ever worth, I'd say it turned out pretty well.

So now what you're saying is you don't trust their evaluations?

You're really out of your mind.

[The Bad Guy]

It's utterly hilarious.

Geno is too risky at 1! So let's trade #34 and next year's 1st rounder (in all likelihood) for Tyler Bray! LMAO

It has nothing to do with risk.

I'm not risk-adverse at all.

However, you can continue to spin anyone who thinks Geno Smith just won't pan out the way you think he will.

[htismaqe]

Well being that he was able to flip Kolb for more compensation than he was ever worth, I'd say it turned out pretty well.

So now what you're saying is you don't trust their evaluations?

You're really out of your mind.

I WANT to trust their evaluations but why should I?

I trusted Scott Pioli's evaluations and what did that get me?

I trusted Dick Vermeil's evaluations and what did that get me?

I'm done with that man.

I want to see RESULTS.

[The Bad Guy]

Because he said he isn't.

He's said several times he hasn't watched many of these guys play.

Didn't see that.

I've known in prior years Dane was very knowledgable about players. Didn't know that changed this year.

[Molitoth]

Well being that he was able to flip Kolb for more compensation than he was ever worth, I'd say it turned out pretty well.

So now what you're saying is you don't trust their evaluations?

You're really out of your mind.

***** ruined the trust factor with a lot of us.
Just like players, staffs need to earn respect before it's freely given.

Just because someone is good on one team, doesn't mean he is going to be good on another. It's a fresh start.

[The Bad Guy]

I WANT to trust their evaluations but why should I?

I trusted Scott *****'s evaluations and what did that get me?

I trusted Dick Vermeil's evaluations and what did that get me?

I'm done with that man.

I want to see RESULTS.

I see your point. I'm jaded too.

[htismaqe]

Didn't see that.

I've known in prior years Dane was very knowledgable about players. Didn't know that changed this year.

Yeah, he's said he's deliberately trying to be more mellow and stuff - a kinder, gentler Dane. Hasn't scouted a lot of these guys the way he has in the past, ready to wait and see what Dorsey and Reid come up with, etc.

In the end, it's starting to sound like he's "new and improved" and he expects everybody else to fall in line. Which is just so much sanctimonious bullshit.

[The Bad Guy]

***** ruined the trust factor with a lot of us.
Just like players, staffs need to earn respect before it's freely given.

Just because someone is good on one team, doesn't mean he is going to be good on another. It's a fresh start.

Fair point.

[TheGuardian]

I'm so tired of all of the boo hooing over guys not being able to "cash in" on college potential or "cash in" because of the new contract agreement with the NFLPA.

God damn, greedy pieces of shit.

[Molitoth]

I'm so tired of all of the boo hooing over guys not being able to "cash in" on college potential or "cash in" because of the new contract agreement with the NFLPA.

God damn, greedy pieces of shit.

Which raises the question.

Is playing in the NFL a privilege, or a right?

[DaKCMan AP]

Which raises the question.

Is playing in the NFL a privilege, or a right?

Is being employed by any company or organization a right?

[Molitoth]

Is being employed by any company or organization a right?

Exactly.

[DaKCMan AP]

Exactly.

And as far as the 3yr thing goes - how is that any different from other jobs that have qualification (education, years of experience, etc.) requirements?

[TheGuardian]

And as far as the 3yr thing goes - how is that any different from other jobs that have qualification (education, years of experience, etc.) requirements?

It's really not.

"we have a requirement for you to work here"

"but I can't cash in!"

"too f'n bad."

[Hammock Parties]

Well being that he was able to flip Kolb for more compensation than he was ever worth, I'd say it turned out pretty well.

So now what you're saying is you don't trust their evaluations?

You're really out of your mind.

I'm saying picking Kevin Kolb in the 2nd round probably isn't gonna result in a Super Bowl.

He was probably worth the 2nd round pick.

You want to roll with a pass rusher at 1.1 and Kevin Kordell Brohm Stewart Quincy Jake Carter Plummer at 2.2, go ahead.

I bet I'll win a Super Bowl rolling the dice on 1st round QBs in the 10 years your pass rusher hopes his crappy QB can win a playoff game for him.

Because that's literally what happened to DT.

[Molitoth]

And as far as the 3yr thing goes - how is that any different from other jobs that have qualification (education, years of experience, etc.) requirements?

It's not. :thumb:

I have no problem with players having to start at the bottom and work their way to the top like everyone else.

If the NFL is that important to Clowney, he will not hesitate to kick ass for another year in college.

[Hammock Parties]

If the NFL is that important to Clowney, he will not hesitate to kick ass for another year in college.

http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.5873.1308255465!/remoteImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_500/100502-mvp-02.jpg

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Yeah, moot point. But I'll tell you what, I'm one of the biggest advocates for drafting a QB with the first pick. However if Jadeveon Clowney were somehow in this draft I don't know how you don't have a long conversation with yourself about snatching him right the fuck up. He is an INCREDIBLE prospect that the draft hasn't seen in years. Regardless of his position. He genuinely is the Andrew Luck of next year's draft on the defensive side of the ball.

[Molitoth]

I knew someone was going to bring NBA to this. Nice job Clay.







asshole.

[DaKCMan AP]

I'm saying picking Kevin Kolb in the 2nd round probably isn't gonna result in a Super Bowl.

He was probably worth the 2nd round pick.

You want to roll with a pass rusher at 1.1 and Kevin Kordell Brohm Stewart Quincy Jake Carter Plummer at 2.2, go ahead.

I bet I'll win a Super Bowl rolling the dice on 1st round QBs in the 10 years your pass rusher hopes his crappy QB can win a playoff game for him.

Because that's literally what happened to DT.


You're a fraud.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5539425&postcount=45
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5789979&postcount=30
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954291&postcount=336
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954264&postcount=321

[Molitoth]

You're a fraud.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5539425&postcount=45
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5789979&postcount=30
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954291&postcount=336
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954264&postcount=321

LMAO

[Mr. Flopnuts]

You're a fraud.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5539425&postcount=45
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5789979&postcount=30
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954291&postcount=336
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954264&postcount=321

OUCH!

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, moot point. But I'll tell you what, I'm one of the biggest advocates for drafting a QB with the first pick. However if Jadeveon Clowney were somehow in this draft I don't know how you don't have a long conversation with yourself about snatching him right the fuck up. He is an INCREDIBLE prospect that the draft hasn't seen in years. Regardless of his position. He genuinely is the Andrew Luck of next year's draft on the defensive side of the ball.

Just like Ndamukong Suh was Jabba the Hutt's Rancor in football pads, eh?

He helping the Lions win a lot of games?

Dear Diary,

Today I realized despite all my talents, my world-class speed, quickness and strength, and my ability to change a game on one play, I am completely beholden to the will of Steve Bono. I know not when this will change. All I can do is wish upon a falling star that someday my prince will come.

The night is long and the dawn is far off. I can't recall the taste of food, nor the touch of grass. I am alone in the dark, with only Marty's gleam to light my way. These are dark times.

Time to go and bang some more sluts.

Yours, Derrick Thomas

[Hammock Parties]

You're a fraud.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5539425&postcount=45
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5789979&postcount=30
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954291&postcount=336
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5954264&postcount=321

Dude, I've admitted MANY TIMES I was wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG about Matt Cassel. That's why I'm so vehemently opposed to the course of action that's being recommended in this very thread.

[htismaqe]

I'm saying picking Kevin Kolb in the 2nd round probably isn't gonna result in a Super Bowl.

He was probably worth the 2nd round pick.

You want to roll with a pass rusher at 1.1 and Kevin Kordell Brohm Stewart Quincy Jake Carter Plummer at 2.2, go ahead.

I bet I'll win a Super Bowl rolling the dice on 1st round QBs in the 10 years your pass rusher hopes his crappy QB can win a playoff game for him.

Because that's literally what happened to DT.

This is what it boils down to for me.

I've seen the same pattern every year for the last 30. It's time for something new and different. If it fails, try again.

Literally EVERY OTHER team in the NFL is doing it this way.

[DaKCMan AP]

Just like Ndamukong Suh was Jabba the Hutt's Rancor in football pads, eh?

He helping the Lions win a lot of games?



Terrible analogy, considering the Lions drafted Stafford at #1 overall the year prior to drafting Suh at #2 overall.

[RealSNR]

The Donks really like Von Miller. He'll be a cornerstone of that defense for years to come.

Good thing Manning is in town. Otherwise he'd be a franchise cornerstone for a perennial 8-8 team AT BEST.

Get your QB first. There will be more "can't miss" players at a variety of positions in drafts to come.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Just like Ndamukong Suh was Jabba the Hutt's Rancor in football pads, eh?

He helping the Lions win a lot of games?

Dear Diary,

Today I realized despite all my talents, my world-class speed, quickness and strength, and my ability to change a game on one play, I am completely beholden to the will of Steve Bono. I know not when this will change. All I can do is wish upon a falling star that someday my prince will come.

The night is long and the dawn is far off. I can't recall the taste of food, nor the touch of grass. I am alone in the dark, with only Marty's gleam to light my way. These are dark times.

Time to go and bang some more sluts.

Yours, Derrick Thomas

1 interesting fact about your Derrick Thomas analogy. The year the Chiefs took that young, stud in the first they actually drafted a QB in the 2nd round. A guy out of Wake Forest named Mike Elkins.

That year was another year that had a shitty QB class. Troy Aikman was drafted first. And he was the ONLY QB taken in the first round that year as the other 2 guys were from the supplemental draft. Other QB's of note in that class were Billy Joe Tolliver, Anthony Dilwig, and Erik Wilhelm.

Okay, you win. Geno or bust. ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

Terrible analogy, considering the Lions drafted Stafford at #1 overall the year prior to drafting Suh at #2 overall.

That's exactly my point.

The Lions' fate is tied so much more to what Stafford does than anything Suh does.

Suh can only complement Stafford, not overcome him. Or Gunther Cunningham for that matter.

[htismaqe]

The Donks really like Von Miller. He'll be a cornerstone of that defense for years to come.

Good thing Manning is in town. Otherwise he'd be a franchise cornerstone for a perennial 8-8 team AT BEST.

Get your QB first. There will be more "can't miss" players at a variety of positions in drafts to come.

That's the best part of this whole discussion.

We can take Geno, let him cut his teeth and work things out this season, and chances are, Clowney will be available in NEXT YEAR'S DRAFT.

[Molitoth]

Like someone mentioned earlier...

There is a "can't miss" defensive prospect almost every year.
and when you look at where "can't miss" player gets drafted... that team hasn't won jack shit.

When you look at the teams that DO WIN, they typically have a fantastic QB.

[RealSNR]

That's the best part of this whole discussion.

We can take Geno, let him cut his teeth and work things out this season, and chances are, Clowney will be available in NEXT YEAR'S DRAFT.

It's about fucking time I heard somebody say, "Don't worry, (insert name of stud non-QB) will be available in next year's class." Usually it's the other way around, where people say "Don't draft a QB this year, (insert name of stud QB) will be available in next year's class."

The hilarious part is in the past whenever they've said that, that QB has turned out to be a giant lemon. Brohm, Quinn, Bradford, Tebow, McCoy, Locker, Gabbert... the list goes on and on. Andrew Luck is the only QB in recent memory we were told to "wait" for who turned out to be any good.

Finally the true fans afraid of drafting a QB are the ones who will have to be told to wait, only to find that the Chiefs won't be picking high enough to get their guy :thumb:

[DaKCMan AP]

That's exactly my point.

The Lions' fate is tied so much more to what Stafford does than anything Suh does.

Suh can only complement Stafford, not overcome him. Or Gunther Cunningham for that matter.

Agree. I'm not opposed to much of what you're saying. The issue I have is you knocking the QB evaluation credentials of Reid/Dorsey when your own are complete, utter trash.

[DaKCMan AP]

It's about fucking time I heard somebody say, "Don't worry, (insert name of stud non-QB) will be available in next year's class." Usually it's the other way around, where people say "Don't draft a QB this year, (insert name of stud QB) will be available in next year's class."

The hilarious part is in the past whenever they've said that, that QB has turned out to be a giant lemon. Brohm, Quinn, Bradford, Tebow, McCoy, Locker, Gabbert... the list goes on and on. Andrew Luck is the only QB in recent memory we were told to "wait" for who turned out to be any good.

Finally the true fans afraid of drafting a QB are the ones who will have to be told to wait, only to find that the Chiefs won't be picking high enough to get their guy :thumb:

Step 1: Draft Geno in 2013

Step 2: Suck in 2013

Step 3: Draft Clowney in 2014

Profit.

[Hammock Parties]

Agree. I'm not opposed to much of what you're saying. The issue I have is you knocking the QB evaluation credentials of Reid/Dorsey when your own are complete, utter trash.

I'm not knocking them. Brian Brohm was probably worth a 2nd round pick.

Trouble is, regardless of who's picking them, 2nd round QBs are a largely fruitless endeavor.

[DaKCMan AP]

I'm not knocking them. Brian Brohm was probably worth a 2nd round pick.

Trouble is, regardless of who's picking them, 2nd round QBs are a largely fruitless endeavor.

Fair enough.

[htismaqe]

Step 1: Draft Geno in 2013

Step 2: Suck in 2013

Step 3: Draft Clowney in 2014

Profit.

Of course, the alternative is:

Step 1: Draft Geno in 2013

Profit.

I think we just found ourselves a WIN-WIN proposition!

[Hammock Parties]

When Geno throws the game winning TD pass in SB XLIX and Hali and Houston rape the opposing QB on his desperation drive, I'm going to put a bag of flaming poop on Jadaveon Clowney's doorstep.

[Sorter]

When Geno throws the game winning TD pass in SB XLIX and Hali and Houston rape the opposing QB on his desperation drive, I'm going to put a bag of flaming poop on Jadaveon Clowney, Star Lotulelei, Alex Smith, Matt Flynn, Mike Glennon and Luke Joeckel's doorsteps.

FYP

[htismaqe]

When Geno throws the game winning TD pass in SB XLIX and Hali and Houston rape the opposing QB on his desperation drive, I'm going to put a bag of flaming poop on Jadaveon Clowney's doorstep.

ROFL

http://vivalavidro.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/6fabcbd4e236968b0704509acefb6d56.gif

[Titty Meat]

None of those guys are available after about pick 20.

Do you think Nassib, Dysert, and Bray can be good QBs? Because you're picking over garbage at 2-2.

Dysert and Bray could be but neither will start this year. I also think Glennon could be there at 15-18.

[DaKCMan AP]

Dysert and Bray could be but neither will start this year. I also think Glennon could be there at 15-18.

Nassib/Dysert/Glennon = :Lin:

Bray = boom/bust

[DJ's left nut]

If he's in the draft, would that change anyone's opinion it's Geno or bust?

Clowney.

Sorry, I know this will draw some fire.

But Jesus tits, Jadeveon Clowney is a goddamn monster.

[MagicHef]

Of the 50 top 5 picks in the last decade, 15 (30%) have had winning records over their tenure with the team that drafted them.

7 QBs out of 13 drafted (54%)
2 LBs out of 3 drafted (67%)
2 RBs out of 6 drafted (33%)
2 OTs out of 8 drafted (25%)
1 CB out of 2 drafted (50%)
1 WR out of 7 drafted (14%)
0 DTs out of 6 drafted
0 DEs out of 3 drafted
0 Ss out of 2 drafted

[htismaqe]

Dysert and Bray could be but neither will start this year.

Those two guys might be lucky to start NEXT year.

I also think Glennon could be there at 15-18.

That's a shit load of picks to give up for a load of shit. I wouldn't trade anything for Glennon.

[Titty Meat]

Clowney.

Sorry, I know this will draw some fire.

But Jesus tits, Jadeveon Clowney is a goddamn monster.

My man! This is the guy who drove the Geno bus too.

[htismaqe]

Of the 50 top 5 picks in the last decade, 15 (30%) have had winning records over their tenure with the team that drafted them.

7 QBs out of 13 drafted (54%)
2 LBs out of 3 drafted (67%)
2 RBs out of 6 drafted (33%)
2 OTs out of 8 drafted (25%)
1 CB out of 2 drafted (50%)
1 WR out of 7 drafted (14%)
0 DTs out of 6 drafted
0 DEs out of 3 drafted
0 Ss out of 2 drafted

If you want to look at the ones that don't have ridiculously small sample sizes, that's pretty damning for RBs, tackles, and WRs.

EDIT: VERY damning for defensive tackles.

[htismaqe]

My man! This is the guy who drove the Geno bus too.

He still is.

The idea that Geno supporters are some kind of fanatical, inflexible cadre of lemmings is a myth...

[MagicHef]

If you want to look at the ones that don't have ridiculously small sample sizes, that's pretty damning for RBs, tackles, and WRs.

What's funny is looking at the positions the Chiefs have drafted in the top 5.

[Molitoth]

I also think Glennon could be there at 15-18.

facepalm

[Molitoth]

My man! This is the guy who drove the Geno bus too.

Yup, it's pretty sad when DJ's Left Nut would revert back to this way of thinking. =(

[Titty Meat]

He still is.

The idea that Geno supporters are some kind of fanatical, inflexible cadre of lemmings is a myth...

Most of them are just read some posts dude. I remember one thread DJ himself pointed out something about Smith and was getting attacked droner style by some fanatic.

[Molitoth]

He still is.

The idea that Geno supporters are some kind of fanatical, inflexible cadre of lemmings is a myth...

I think most Geno supporters just know the importance of the QB position.
But giving up on the QB position to draft yet another Dlineman for THIS CHIEFS TEAM is just ****ing silly.

If a team has a great QB, or even an above average QB.. then by all means skip drafting a QB in the first and go get Clowney.
But when a team hasn't had a good QB in forever, and has 2 skilled defensive pass rushers already???? Go for the ****ing QB. Sheesh.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Clowney.

Sorry, I know this will draw some fire.

But Jesus tits, Jadeveon Clowney is a goddamn monster.

See, I like Geno as much as you do. But Clowney is not just some Suh prospect. The proof is in the pudding. Dude plays in the fucking SEC, and OWNS it. As an underclassman. He is incredible, and a freak of nature.

[Reerun_KC]

Can he lead a game winning drive when you need it the most?

That is the question I have, if so then yes draft him, if not, then we have to address the most important position in the field first.

[RealSNR]

That's it. I hope Clowney Tony Mandariches himself.

I'm getting really fucking tired of Deberg_1990 starting a thread every couple of years titled "Should the Chiefs have drafted (Super Bowl QB)?"

After we get Geno, the Flacco one will be the last such thing I see, and people will stop wanting to draft "monsters" so goddamn badly instead of drafting players that can actually win you a Super Bowl.

[htismaqe]

Most of them are just read some posts dude. I remember one thread DJ himself pointed out something about Smith and was getting attacked droner style by some fanatic.

MOST of them aren't.

This whole mindset has been created by 1 or 2 people that are very vocal.

[RealSNR]

Most of them are just read some posts dude. I remember one thread DJ himself pointed out something about Smith and was getting attacked droner style by some fanatic.
You sound really convincing right now.

Maybe it's a good thing the debate between you and Direckshun was called off.

[Titty Meat]

facepalm

I dont get all the Glennon hate here hes inconsistent but also had shitty coaching. Sounds familiar.

Also are we now pretending like Suh is some sort of bust? Ive read a few post in here that would indicate so. Were the lions suppose to trade for Bradford?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

That's it. I hope Clowney Tony Mandariches himself.

I'm getting really fucking tired of Deberg_1990 starting a thread every couple of years titled "Should the Chiefs have drafted (Super Bowl QB)?"

After we get Geno, the Flacco one will be the last such thing I see, and people will stop wanting to draft "monsters" so goddamn badly instead of drafting players that can actually win you a Super Bowl.

Surprised he hasn't douched up a Russ Wilson one yet.

[MagicHef]

If you want to look at the ones that don't have ridiculously small sample sizes, that's pretty damning for RBs, tackles, and WRs.

EDIT: VERY damning for defensive tackles.

The 7 QBs: Eli, Rivers, VY, Ryan, Sanchez (lol), Luck and RGIII. Only one had little to do with their team winning.

The 2 LBs: A.J. Hawk and Von. When I think of the Packer's success, Hawk isn't the name that comes to mind.

The 2 RBs: Benson and Bush. Both underwhelming.

The 2 OTs: D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Matt Kalil. I don't think either team is winning because of these guys.

[DaKCMan AP]

I dont get all the Glennon hate here hes inconsistent but also had shitty coaching. Sounds familiar.

Also are we now pretending like Suh is some sort of bust? Ive read a few post in here that would indicate so. Were the lions suppose to trade for Bradford?

He also played in a garbage conference against weak defenses - and wasn't impressive.

[RealSNR]

I dont get all the Glennon hate here hes inconsistent but also had shitty coaching. Sounds familiar.

Also are we now pretending like Suh is some sort of bust? Ive read a few post in here that would indicate so. Were the lions suppose to trade for Bradford?

No. Suh is a bad example whoever used it. If Kansas City had drafted the franchise QB LAST year and Clowney were in the draft this year, then yes, this pick would be a no-brainer.

Suh is also not done learning how to channel his incredible ability. He's still a good player. Angry, but good.

[Hammock Parties]

Also are we now pretending like Suh is some sort of bust?

Suh is a very good player.

And he hasn't, and won't, win shit, until Stafford unfucks himself and Gunther is fired.

[Molitoth]

I dont get all the Glennon hate here hes inconsistent but also had shitty coaching. Sounds familiar.


I'm not bagging on you for liking him, (that's just your opinion).
I've watched everything he has on youtube and comparable to Geno/Wilson/Barkley, he's just not even in the same conversation to me.

He's got the ideal physical measurables and can throw the occasional good pass.

I like to look for great consistency and great pocket awareness. Something that really sells me on Geno.

[Reerun_KC]

Suh is a very good player.

And he hasn't, and won't, win shit, until Stafford un****s himself and Gunther is fired.

and he never will until they get a QB...

[Molitoth]

and he never will until they get a QB...

I don't think the Lions should give up on Stafford yet... but you are right, he's currently shown nothing to say that the Lions are going to be competing for even an NFC championship anytime soon.

The Lions need help in the Secondary badly... and when they get it, Stafford should have no excuse to not take them far in the playoffs.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

How the fuck is Gun still employed?

[Reerun_KC]

I don't think the Lions should give up on Stafford yet... but you are right, he's currently shown nothing to say that the Lions are going to be competing for even an NFC championship anytime soon.

The Lions need help in the Secondary badly... and when they get it, Stafford should have no excuse to not take them far in the playoffs.

Clownfish will never see a superbowl either if his team doesnt have a QB...

Strange how that works in the modern day NFL...

Without a QB you are a washed out franchise like the Chiefs...

[Sorter]

I don't think the Lions should give up on Stafford yet... but you are right, he's currently shown nothing to say that the Lions are going to be competing for even an NFC championship anytime soon.

The Lions need help in the Secondary badly... and when they get it, Stafford should have no excuse to not take them far in the playoffs.

People don't realize this was his 2nd full year starting.

I expect Stafford to bounce back this year, provided Detroit re vamps their pass rush, secondary, and upgrades at WR, RB.

[DaKCMan AP]

Clownfish will never see a superbowl either if his team doesnt have a QB...

Strange how that works in the modern day NFL...

Without a QB you are a washed out franchise like the Chiefs...

Much less likely, not never. It's rare, yes (1999 Ravens, 2002 Bucs - and I realize the NFL has changed since then). However, lets also not forget that QB gods like Manning/Brees have only 1 SB win and Marino/Kelly/Moon/Fouts/Tarkenton combined have 0.

[Molitoth]

People don't realize this was his 2nd full year starting.

I expect Stafford to bounce back this year, provided Detroit re vamps their pass rush, secondary, and upgrades at WR, RB.

Right, Stafford has had some trouble staying healthy. Something Elite QB's tend to find a way to do.

Detroit has the personnel for a pass rush, maybe Goonther is to blame.
Secondary is terribad.
RB is a problem now that Best could never return to football.
WR is fine, they just need a better running game to open up play action. Pettigrew needs to quit dropping balls.

[Reerun_KC]

Much less likely, not never. It's rare, yes (1999 Ravens, 2002 Bucs - and I realize the NFL has changed since then). However, lets also not forget that QB gods like Manning/Brees have only 1 SB win and Marino/Kelly/Moon/Fouts/Tarkenton combined have 0.


Well if the NFL regresses and starts going backwards taking the forward pass out of the game then its most likely...

Unfortantly for us its a QB driven league. Its not even debatable.

Besides you are using references that are 13 years old.. Its not even the same NFL is was 13 years ago let alone with Mario played or Tarkenton...

[DaKCMan AP]

Right, Stafford has had some trouble staying healthy. Something Elite QB's tend to find a way to do.

Detroit has the personnel for a pass rush, maybe Goonther is to blame.
Secondary is terribad.
RB is a problem now that Best could never return to football.
WR is fine, they just need a better running game to open up play action. Pettigrew needs to quit dropping balls.

They need help a lot of places. Outside of Megatron they have absolute garbage at WR (mostly because Titus Young went full retard & they lost Burleson for the year). Their LBs and secondary are blah. They need to resign Cliff Avril on the DL.

[DJ's left nut]

Most of them are just read some posts dude. I remember one thread DJ himself pointed out something about Smith and was getting attacked droner style by some fanatic.

Right - I spoke to this exact scenario in the Alex Smith thread (I think) when I dropped a hypothetical about Clowney being available this season.

I said I was damn happy we didn't have to make that choice.

I still like Geno a lot and I'd still give him the combine, workouts and pro days to prove that his work with Weinke has given him the ability to drive the football without sacrificing his accuracy. Geno could still take the 1.1.

But I'd have to see him do that first. If Geno can't get his footwork thing fixed, his ceiling is Phillip Rivers. And since the argument right now seems to be "well Mario Williams never won shit!" well neither has Rivers.

And one of the interesting things about this QB class is that I really do think it's as deep a class as we've seen in a very very long time. With the rules making it easier to get credible QB play from guys that are merely good QBs, it may be time to take some chances and get one that falls.

I've been pretty open-minded throughout this process. I think I've shown some strong arguments in favor of Alex Smith, though he's not the guy I'd prefer. I've been open about Geno's flaws. Being open-minded about this stuff should make one's opinions count for more, at least it does in my eyes.

And here I have to concede that if the draft were held tomorrow and Clowney were in it, I'd have to go with Clowney.

[DaKCMan AP]

Well if the NFL regresses and starts going backwards taking the forward pass out of the game then its most likely...

Unfortantly for us its a QB driven league. Its not even debatable.

Besides you are using references that are 13 years old.. Its not even the same NFL is was 13 years ago let alone with Mario played or Tarkenton...

How about this reference: if Kyle Williams doesn't have an unbelievable choke-job game the 49ers go to the Super Bowl in 2011 with Alex Smith as their starting QB.

It's rare. Very rare. But not impossible.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I've been pretty open-minded throughout this process. I think I've shown some strong arguments in favor of Alex Smith, though he's not the guy I'd prefer. I've been open about Geno's flaws. Being open-minded about this stuff should make one's opinions count for more, at least it does in my eyes.


It does to me.

[DaKCMan AP]

FTR, a nice consolation prize to Clowney next year if (a BIG if) he explodes is Ronald Powell. He was the #1 overall recruit the year before Clowney. All indications were that he finally committed to the game and was clicking during spring practices last year and then he tore his ACL and missed all of last season. Florida just stole away Clowney's DL coach so we'll see if it pays dividends for Powell, another athletic freak who (thusfar) hasn't had the on-field production.

[htismaqe]

He also played in a garbage conference against weak defenses - and wasn't impressive.

Exactly.

There's A LOT to not like about Glennon.

In fact, the only things TO like about Glennon are his height and his arm strength, EVERYTHING ELSE about him ranges from "meh" to :Lin:

[Pasta Little Brioni]

He's got a nice neck/Lestat

[Hammock Parties]

Exactly.

There's A LOT to not like about Glennon.

In fact, the only things TO like about Glennon are his height and his arm strength, EVERYTHING ELSE about him ranges from "meh" to :Lin:

http://i.imgur.com/auJWPju.gif

[htismaqe]

Right - I spoke to this exact scenario in the Alex Smith thread (I think) when I dropped a hypothetical about Clowney being available this season.

I said I was damn happy we didn't have to make that choice.

I still like Geno a lot and I'd still give him the combine, workouts and pro days to prove that his work with Weinke has given him the ability to drive the football without sacrificing his accuracy. Geno could still take the 1.1.

But I'd have to see him do that first. If Geno can't get his footwork thing fixed, his ceiling is Phillip Rivers. And since the argument right now seems to be "well Mario Williams never won shit!" well neither has Rivers.

And one of the interesting things about this QB class is that I really do think it's as deep a class as we've seen in a very very long time. With the rules making it easier to get credible QB play from guys that are merely good QBs, it may be time to take some chances and get one that falls.

I've been pretty open-minded throughout this process. I think I've shown some strong arguments in favor of Alex Smith, though he's not the guy I'd prefer. I've been open about Geno's flaws. Being open-minded about this stuff should make one's opinions count for more, at least it does in my eyes.

And here I have to concede that if the draft were held tomorrow and Clowney were in it, I'd have to go with Clowney.

The problem is that Billay said that MOST of the Geno crowd is like the ONE GUY that attacked you.

You and I both know that's not true. The "average" Geno fan around here is much more like you, which tends to get drowned out in the constant conversation about cocoa and cocks.

[Sorter]

Right, Stafford has had some trouble staying healthy. Something Elite QB's tend to find a way to do.

Detroit has the personnel for a pass rush, maybe Goonther is to blame.
Secondary is terribad.
RB is a problem now that Best could never return to football.
WR is fine, they just need a better running game to open up play action. Pettigrew needs to quit dropping balls.

Detroit had nobody coming off the edge other than Avril. I expect them to take Moore or Werner and clear that up.

Secondary is god awful and IIRC, Chris Houston is a URFA.
Burleson is old and they just got rid of Titus Young. Broyles is awesome if he can get knees that don't tear like paper. They'll need to draft 1 and probably get 1 in FA.
They should just throw to Scheffler until Pettigrew decides to hang onto the football.

[DJ's left nut]

The problem is that Billay said that MOST of the Geno crowd is like the ONE GUY that attacked you.

You and I both know that's not true. The "average" Geno fan around here is much more like you, which tends to get drowned out in the constant conversation about cocoa and cocks.

Well duh. Chocolate penii win virtually any argument.

[htismaqe]

Well duh. Chocolate penii win virtually any argument.

Cuckoo for cocoa cocks!

[Hammock Parties]

Cuckoo for cocoa cocks!

Snap Count Chocula!

[MagicHef]

Okay, I expanded to the last 20 years of top 5 picks. So, out of those 100 players, here is the percentage by position that had a winning record during their tenure with the team that drafted them. This is not the result I was expecting:

LB 67% (sample size 9)
CB 50% (sample size 6)
QB 42% (sample size 26)
RB 36% (sample size 14)
OT 29% (sample size 14)
DE 20% (sample size 10)
DT 11% (sample size 9)
WR 10% (sample size 10)
S 0% (sample size 2)

[htismaqe]

Okay, I expanded to the last 20 years of top 5 picks. So, out of those 100 players, here is the percentage by position that had a winning record during their tenure with the team that drafted them. This is not the result I was expecting:

LB 67% (sample size 9)
CB 50% (sample size 6)
QB 42% (sample size 26)
RB 36% (sample size 14)
OT 29% (sample size 14)
DE 20% (sample size 10)
DT 11% (sample size 9)
WR 10% (sample size 10)
S 0% (sample size 2)

Once again, the numbers solidly suggest the Chiefs should take a QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Take out the teams that had good/franchise QBs and were picking in the top 5 for some reason.

[htismaqe]

Take out the teams that had good/franchise QBs and were picking in the top 5 for some reason.

No need.

The number clearly show that teams picking in the top 5 (aka bad teams) don't improve when they draft tackles.

[MagicHef]

Take out the teams that had good/franchise QBs and were picking in the top 5 for some reason.

Tell me which teams those are and I'll take them out.

[MagicHef]

The most intriguing to me is CB. Mainly because the 3 guys that did NOT have a winning record with their original teams are Patrick Peterson, Charles Woodson, and Bryant Westbrook.

[htismaqe]

The most intriguing to me is CB. Mainly because the 3 guys that did NOT have a winning record with their original teams are Patrick Peterson, Charles Woodson, and Bryant Westbrook.

Peterson is still young and Woodson's original team was the Raiders, so there's that.

[MagicHef]

Peterson is still young and Woodson's original team was the Raiders, so there's that.

Also, Westbrook was off to a promising start, but had his career cut short by an exploding achilles.

[Setsuna]

If he was coming out, yall would make the Rams trade with Redskins look like a simple event akin to children swapping food at lunch. Yall would literally clean up in every sense of the word.

[RealSNR]

If he was coming out, yall would make the Rams trade with Redskins look like a simple event akin to children swapping food at lunch. Yall would literally clean up in every sense of the word.

Next year, when we have Geno, that trade might make sense.

[Setsuna]

Next year, when we have Geno, that trade might make sense.

ROFL I get you. I'd trade down too. Not gonna lie.

[lcarus]

Clownfish will never see a superbowl either if his team doesnt have a QB...

Strange how that works in the modern day NFL...

Without a QB you are a washed out franchise like the Chiefs...

That's true, but it isn't like if we don't draft Geno Smith with our #1 pick that we can't get a good QB. If it was RG3 or Luck, then yeah, screw Clowney and take the QB. And this is from someone who hopes we draft Geno. I would just change my mind if Clowney were available.

[DJ's left nut]

Next year, when we have Geno, that trade might make sense.

This year, making the trade with the Jags AND having Geno makes a shitload of sense.

That is the ideal scenario, IMO. Get the Jags on the horn, trade them 1.1 for 1.2, 3.2 and next year's 1st (and probably 2nd). They'll go with Clowney, we go with Smith and we freakin' clean up.

And if they throw us a curve and take Geno, well hell, guess we'll have to live with Clowney. You can take Bray as a high-risk/high-reward guy, sign A. Smith and with 2 picks next season (one or both of which are likely to be top 10/15 picks), you can move up if you have to.

I've said it before when arguing in favor of taking the risk on Geno and I'll say it now when arguing in favor of taking the risk of both guys - this team needs to take some HR swings. ***** boned us, plain and simple. We're well behind the league and we're wasting the primes of some elite players. It's time for bold, aggressive action and if Clowney comes out, the decision has to be to trade w/ the Jags.

[htismaqe]

This year, making the trade with the Jags AND having Geno makes a shitload of sense.

That is the ideal scenario, IMO. Get the Jags on the horn, trade them 1.1 for 1.2, 3.2 and next year's 1st (and probably 2nd). They'll go with Clowney, we go with Smith and we freakin' clean up.

And if they throw us a curve and take Geno, well hell, guess we'll have to live with Clowney. You can take Bray as a high-risk/high-reward guy, sign A. Smith and with 2 picks next season (one or both of which are likely to be top 10/15 picks), you can move up if you have to.

I've said it before when arguing in favor of taking the risk on Geno and I'll say it not when arguing in favor of taking the risk of both guys - this team needs to take some HR swings. ***** boned us, plain and simple. We're well behind the league and we're wasting the primes of some elite players. It's time for bold, aggressive action and if Clowney comes out, the decision has to be to trade w/ the Jags.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Setsuna]

This year, making the trade with the Jags AND having Geno makes a shitload of sense.

That is the ideal scenario, IMO. Get the Jags on the horn, trade them 1.1 for 1.2, 3.2 and next year's 1st (and probably 2nd). They'll go with Clowney, we go with Smith and we freakin' clean up.

And if they throw us a curve and take Geno, well hell, guess we'll have to live with Clowney. You can take Bray as a high-risk/high-reward guy, sign A. Smith and with 2 picks next season (one or both of which are likely to be top 10/15 picks), you can move up if you have to.

I've said it before when arguing in favor of taking the risk on Geno and I'll say it not when arguing in favor of taking the risk of both guys - this team needs to take some HR swings. ***** boned us, plain and simple. We're well behind the league and we're wasting the primes of some elite players. It's time for bold, aggressive action and if Clowney comes out, the decision has to be to trade w/ the Jags.
Never going to freaking happen.

[Titty Meat]

Right - I spoke to this exact scenario in the Alex Smith thread (I think) when I dropped a hypothetical about Clowney being available this season.

I said I was damn happy we didn't have to make that choice.

I still like Geno a lot and I'd still give him the combine, workouts and pro days to prove that his work with Weinke has given him the ability to drive the football without sacrificing his accuracy. Geno could still take the 1.1.

But I'd have to see him do that first. If Geno can't get his footwork thing fixed, his ceiling is Phillip Rivers. And since the argument right now seems to be "well Mario Williams never won shit!" well neither has Rivers.

And one of the interesting things about this QB class is that I really do think it's as deep a class as we've seen in a very very long time. With the rules making it easier to get credible QB play from guys that are merely good QBs, it may be time to take some chances and get one that falls.

I've been pretty open-minded throughout this process. I think I've shown some strong arguments in favor of Alex Smith, though he's not the guy I'd prefer. I've been open about Geno's flaws. Being open-minded about this stuff should make one's opinions count for more, at least it does in my eyes.

And here I have to concede that if the draft were held tomorrow and Clowney were in it, I'd have to go with Clowney.

Boom!

[MagicHef]

In the past 20 years, 11 Super Bowls were won by guys that were top 5 picks and still on their original teams.

5 LBs
3 QBs
2 RBs
1 OT

[DJ's left nut]

Never going to freaking happen.

Alright, what might?

I think they'd give up next year's first for him, especially since they seem to think they can get a nice QB prospect in round 2 this year.

Speaking as a Jags fan, what would you give up, if anything, to move up and take Clowney? He sure seems like an ideal fit for your squad. Would you rather call KC's bluff and hope they don't take him or give up something to ensure that you'll get him?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This entire thread seems like an extended rationalization to avoid taking a QB.

[DJ's left nut]

This entire thread seems like an extended rationalization to avoid taking a QB.

This entire post seems like an extended attempt to avoid substantive discussion in favor of a predetermined course.

I don't see how you can see Clowney on the board and just say "fuck it, I'm still taking Geno". At that point that is being an ideologue and little more.

And even if your position is "fuck it, I'm taking Geno", you'd be irresponsible not to call Jacksonville and discuss trade-down scenarios, so why not kick that idea around as well?

[htismaqe]

Boom!

Ahem.

Posted yesterday at 8:15pm.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=9401162&postcount=24

Jacksonville would obviously want him badly.

I'd be tempted to see what I could get for trading down to #2 and taking Geno there.

:clap:

[Setsuna]

Alright, what might?

I think they'd give up next year's first for him, especially since they seem to think they can get a nice QB prospect in round 2 this year.

Speaking as a Jags fan, what would you give up, if anything, to move up and take Clowney? He sure seems like an ideal fit for your squad. Would you rather call KC's bluff and hope they don't take him or give up something to ensure that you'll get him?

Nothing. If we don't have the first pick then he's not worth getting in contrast to having a QB that isn't in the bottom 7 of QBs in the league for 2 years straight. I want my QB first.

Here is my reasoning. When the Broncos hoisted up the Superbowl trophy in 2013....oh wait they didn't. Von Miller was almost non existent in postseason play. When the 49ers hoisted up the Superbowl trophy...oh wait they didn't. Aldon Smith and Justin Smith were non existent in the postseason. When the Texans hoisted...oh wait they didn't. JJ Watt was non existent in the postseason. My point is, having a dominant pass rusher will win you regular season games to an extent but a QB wins you the postseason and the Superbowl. No thank you to Clowney if we aren't picking #1 overall. Not moving up for a player other than a QB.

[RealSNR]

This year, making the trade with the Jags AND having Geno makes a shitload of sense.

That is the ideal scenario, IMO. Get the Jags on the horn, trade them 1.1 for 1.2, 3.2 and next year's 1st (and probably 2nd). They'll go with Clowney, we go with Smith and we freakin' clean up.

And if they throw us a curve and take Geno, well hell, guess we'll have to live with Clowney. You can take Bray as a high-risk/high-reward guy, sign A. Smith and with 2 picks next season (one or both of which are likely to be top 10/15 picks), you can move up if you have to.

I've said it before when arguing in favor of taking the risk on Geno and I'll say it now when arguing in favor of taking the risk of both guys - this team needs to take some HR swings. ***** boned us, plain and simple. We're well behind the league and we're wasting the primes of some elite players. It's time for bold, aggressive action and if Clowney comes out, the decision has to be to trade w/ the Jags.
The point I was making is that Clowney won't be in this draft. Even if he does get a lawyer to fight this (which he won't)

[Titty Meat]

Ahem.

Posted yesterday at 8:15pm.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=9401162&postcount=24



:clap:

Going Bosschief on us :)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This entire post seems like an extended attempt to avoid substantive discussion in favor of a predetermined course.

I don't see how you can see Clowney on the board and just say "fuck it, I'm still taking Geno". At that point that is being an ideologue and little more.

And even if your position is "fuck it, I'm taking Geno", you'd be irresponsible not to call Jacksonville and discuss trade-down scenarios, so why not kick that idea around as well?

Once you trade down you lose control of your own destiny. The entire reason why the #1 overall pick is so desirable is precisely because you control the narrative of the entire draft. You don't have to consider contingencies, reaches, or runs on players, you spot your guy and you take it.

Furthermore, while Jadeveon Clowney is a great prospect, he can't add more value to a team than a quarterback can.

I realize that the situation discussed is working a trade with Jacksonville, but unless they are run by the fools who got fired from Cleveland, why would they possibly bite on that trade offer? It's Maddenesque bullshit.

I also realize that the equation in question is Clowney+ second round QB or journeyman, or potential 2014 QB vs. Geno Smith+2014 pick, but people are seriously ignoring the importance of draft experts creating narratives to ensure and garner interest.

Griffin went from a top 5 pick but decided #2 overall to QB to "Hey, maybe he's better than Luck" last year precisely for this reason.

Cam Newton was eviscerated as a prospect in 2011 to ensure the lack of available consensus. The same thing happened when Detroit was supposedly negotiating with Curry over Stafford.

Realize where you exist in space. Every #1 overall's stock is never lower than it is in this period, because if it wasn't, there'd be nothing to talk about.

All of that also ignores the fact that this has the same possibility of happening as someone injecting stem cells into Lawrence Taylor to reverse the aging process, thus making him eligible for this draft. Clowney is not going to declare for the draft. It's a pointless argument.

At the end, the equation is this simple: Even a great pass rusher is, at best, a closer. a quarterback is a starting pitcher. He makes a greater material impact on the game, and a 5% difference in QB is far more important than a 25% difference in DE.

[O.city]

Dude on pti made a good point. Said it wouldn't matter if he tried, high courts wouldn't get involved in something that's been collectively bargained so would fail

[SAUTO]

If you want to look at the ones that don't have ridiculously small sample sizes, that's pretty damning for RBs, tackles, and WRs.

EDIT: VERY damning for defensive tackles.
Funny we have drafted a DT, de, AND safety on that list
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

Once you trade down you lose control of your own destiny. The entire reason why the #1 overall pick is so desirable is precisely because you control the narrative of the entire draft. You don't have to consider contingencies, reaches, or runs on players, you spot your guy and you take it.

Furthermore, while Jadeveon Clowney is a great prospect, he can't add more value to a team than a quarterback can.

I realize that the situation discussed is working a trade with Jacksonville, but unless they are run by the fools who got fired from Cleveland, why would they possibly bite on that trade offer? It's Maddenesque bullshit.

I also realize that the equation in question is Clowney+ second round QB or journeyman, or potential 2014 QB vs. Geno Smith+2014 pick, but people are seriously ignoring the importance of draft experts creating narratives to ensure and garner interest.

Griffin went from a top 5 pick but decided #2 overall to QB to "Hey, maybe he's better than Luck" last year precisely for this reason.

Cam Newton was eviscerated as a prospect in 2011 to ensure the lack of available consensus. The same thing happened when Detroit was supposedly negotiating with Curry over Stafford.

Realize where you exist in space. Every #1 overall's stock is never lower than it is in this period, because if it wasn't, there'd be nothing to talk about.

All of that also ignores the fact that this has the same possibility of happening as someone injecting stem cells into Lawrence Taylor to reverse the aging process, thus making him eligible for this draft. Clowney is not going to declare for the draft. It's a pointless argument.

At the end, the equation is this simple: Even a great pass rusher is, at best, a closer. a quarterback is a starting pitcher. He makes a greater material impact on the game, and a 5% difference in QB is far more important than a 25% difference in DE.

Thank you sir may i have another

[Setsuna]

The point I was making is that Clowney won't be in this draft. Even if he does get a lawyer to fight this (which he won't)

I know. I was answering DJ's post though. Even if we picked 2nd again next year I wouldn't want to trade up for him for those same reasons. Not worth it.

[DaKCMan AP]

I know. I was answering DJ's post though. Even if we picked 2nd again next year I wouldn't want to trade up for him for those same reasons. Not worth it.

Yeah - definitely not worth it to trade some picks for an absolute monster like Clowney when your 1st round pick resume (5 of them top-10 selections) is Blaine Gabbert, Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Derrick Harvey, Reggie Nelson, Mercedes Lewis, Matt Jones, and Reggie Williams.

:spock:

[ForeverChiefs58]

The guy wears #7, but is not a QB, so put me on the no list.

He is a monster, but the Chiefs need to find a monster at QB. This year that monster wears #12, not #7.

Clowney is very impressive though
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[Chief Roundup]

Yawn. It didn't work for any of the others that have challenged the rule. Just stay in school.

[Dave Lane]

Would you trade 1.1 with the Raiders IF they offered 3 1sts and 2 conditional 2nds?

[Molitoth]

Would you trade 1.1 with the Raiders IF they offered 3 1sts and 2 conditional 2nds?

to move from 1.1 to 1.3 AND get 2more Raider firsts (which means they should be high picks) and a possible 2 more #2's?

Actually, I would do that. If the Raiders take Geno, I don't think the Jags would give up on Gabbert yet, so Wilson should be available. If the Jags took Wilson then I would still be willing to give Barkley a shot at #3.

Yeah, I would do that.

I don't think the Raiders are that stupid though. Keep in mind Al Davis is dead and they have a new FO. They already have multiple draft picks in Palmer as well, so I can see them riding him for at least 1 more year if not 2.

[KChiefer]

Would you trade 1.1 with the Raiders IF they offered 3 1sts and 2 conditional 2nds?

Do they even have any picks left from the Palmer trade? I see your point though, they've proven dumb enough to sell their future for 1 guy.

[the Talking Can]

Once you trade down you lose control of your own destiny. The entire reason why the #1 overall pick is so desirable is precisely because you control the narrative of the entire draft. You don't have to consider contingencies, reaches, or runs on players, you spot your guy and you take it.

Furthermore, while Jadeveon Clowney is a great prospect, he can't add more value to a team than a quarterback can.

I realize that the situation discussed is working a trade with Jacksonville, but unless they are run by the fools who got fired from Cleveland, why would they possibly bite on that trade offer? It's Maddenesque bullshit.

I also realize that the equation in question is Clowney+ second round QB or journeyman, or potential 2014 QB vs. Geno Smith+2014 pick, but people are seriously ignoring the importance of draft experts creating narratives to ensure and garner interest.

Griffin went from a top 5 pick but decided #2 overall to QB to "Hey, maybe he's better than Luck" last year precisely for this reason.

Cam Newton was eviscerated as a prospect in 2011 to ensure the lack of available consensus. The same thing happened when Detroit was supposedly negotiating with Curry over Stafford.

Realize where you exist in space. Every #1 overall's stock is never lower than it is in this period, because if it wasn't, there'd be nothing to talk about.

All of that also ignores the fact that this has the same possibility of happening as someone injecting stem cells into Lawrence Taylor to reverse the aging process, thus making him eligible for this draft. Clowney is not going to declare for the draft. It's a pointless argument.

At the end, the equation is this simple: Even a great pass rusher is, at best, a closer. a quarterback is a starting pitcher. He makes a greater material impact on the game, and a 5% difference in QB is far more important than a 25% difference in DE.

i want you to have sex with me

[Setsuna]

Yeah - definitely not worth it to trade some picks for an absolute monster like Clowney when your 1st round pick resume (5 of them top-10 selections) is Blaine Gabbert, Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Derrick Harvey, Reggie Nelson, Mercedes Lewis, Matt Jones, and Reggie Williams.

:spock:

I don't care. And Reggie Nelson is better than what we have right now anyway. His first year he was a beast but after we changed DC's he sucked. He was in the wrong scheme doing the wrong things and nullified what he was great at. So no you're wrong there buddy. BTW Gator fan =! Jags fan. So you actually don't know shit on this subject matter despite you thinking you know EVERYTHING on the face of the planet.

[DaKCMan AP]

I don't care. And Reggie Nelson is better than what we have right now anyway. His first year he was a beast but after we changed DC's he sucked. He was in the wrong scheme doing the wrong things and nullified what he was great at. So no you're wrong there buddy. BTW Gator fan =! Jags fan. So you actually don't know shit on this subject matter despite you thinking you know EVERYTHING on the face of the planet.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2D90XDwlTD0/TPotbcG9nMI/AAAAAAAAAJY/unjEQYvZ_cU/s1600/Big+Silly+Goose.jpg

[htismaqe]

Going Bosschief on us :)

I don't get very many chances, I'm hardly ever right! :D

[gochiefss]

clowney, poe, dorsey, hali

houston, dj, barnett

flowers, berry, matt elam, drc

[Hammock Parties]

clowney, poe, dorsey, hali

houston, dj, barnett

flowers, berry, matt elam, drc

And no Super Bowls for any of them.

Yay!

[DJ's left nut]

And no Super Bowls for any of them.

Yay!

You really are awful at trying to project trends of any sort, for whatever that's worth.

In 3 years when the rules have made even mediocre QBs capable of throwing for 3,800 yds and everyone's chasing pass rushers, you're going to be on the other side of this argument.

You're a weather-vane that doesn't generally have a salient thought at all until someone feeds it to you. The extent of your 'insight' is to parrot PFF and even that is just more of you peddling someone else's work. You simply jump from bandwagon to bandwagon. The next time you're ahead of the curve will be the first.

I'm not sure why anyone bothers to take you seriously. Ever.

The reality is this: The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Geno Smith never winning a SB either. Try to bring something more to the table than mindlessly pounding a table.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm not sure WTF you're talking about. I was WAY out in front of ***** and Cassel crashing and burning. I got shit from homers for over a YEAR.

Mediocre QBs aren't about to start winning SBs, let's be real.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not sure WTF you're talking about. I was WAY out in front of ***** and Cassel crashing and burning.

No, you were not. You were sucking both of their dicks until 2011, at which point it was obvious to anyone paying attention that these guys sucked bawls.

Hamas was out in front, Dane was out in front. Hell, I was out in front.

You were, at best, in the latter 1/3 of converts. Just as you were with Larry Johnson and Herm Edwards and every other piece of shit that has been lousy from day one, only to see you wait until year 2 to see the light.

[Hammock Parties]

No, you were not. You were sucking both of their dicks until 2011

Absolutely not true.

I was telling everyone the 2010 Chiefs were frauds, remember?

And I swore up and fucking down that we were a mediocre team (7-9 or 8-8) at best in 2011 and 2012, when everyone was jerking off to thoughts of the playoffs.

Meanwhile Dane was all up in this bitch with Trent Green 2.0 and Playoff Win Orgasmo!!!

So I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

[Titty Meat]

Absolutely not true.

I was telling everyone the 2010 Chiefs were frauds, remember?

And I swore up and fucking down that we were a mediocre team (7-9 or 8-8) at best in 2011 and 2012, when everyone was jerking off to thoughts of the playoffs.

Meanwhile Dane was all up in this bitch with Trent Green 2.0 and Playoff Win Orgasmo!!!

So I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

Balla ass gm?

[DJ's left nut]

Absolutely not true.

I was telling everyone the 2010 Chiefs were frauds, remember?

And I swore up and fucking down that we were a mediocre team (7-9 or 8-8) at best in 2011 and 2012, when everyone was jerking off to thoughts of the playoffs.

Meanwhile Dane was all up in this bitch with Trent Green 2.0 and Playoff Win Orgasmo!!!

So I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

I wouldn't want my past pointed out to me either if it was as checkered as yours has been. Your 'pro-cassel' posts have already been fed to you in this thread and there are ample others to draw from. You may not have been the last horse to enter the stable, but you damn sure were not the first or anywhere close to it.

And you'll certainly jump to the next bandwagon that starts picking up steam.

[Hammock Parties]

I wouldn't want my past pointed out to me either if it was as checkered as yours has been. Your 'pro-cassel' posts have already been fed to you in this thread

And they're all from 2009.

I was off this turd's bandwagon after that Bills game in 2010.

Your post was bullshit.

[gochiefss]

Clowney isn't just a pass rusher. He'll be a top 10 player in the NFL in his rookie year, he's that elite.

[OmahaChief]

Clowney isn't just a pass rusher. He'll be a top 10 player in the NFL in his rookie year, he's that elite.

Not a chance he will a top 10 player.

[The Bad Guy]

I'd honestly be shocked if Claynus watched one minute of college football. He doesn't have an original thought of his own, he jumps bandwagons constantly and then comes up with completely ridiculous bullshit posts like:

Kevin Greene never won a SB and has (X) number of sacks, like that means fucking anything.

It doesn't. It's a circular argument that anyone who likes Clowney more than Geno Smith can counter with just as many examples of really good QBs not winning them either.

If this board's talent evaluation was a gym kickball game, I'd be picking GoChiefs around the same spot I pick Chiefzilla and Blackbob.

[Hammock Parties]

I don't have an original thought of my own?

LMAO

I was basically accused of being the BlackBob of the 2012 offseason and being a "troll" I railed so hard against the previous regime.

Gimme a fucking break.

[Hammock Parties]

I love that I'm suddenly being attacked now because you guys are so in love with Clowney.

Fucking assholes.

Go fuck your thread, I'm out.

[O.city]

Clowney has LT type upside. After thinking about it more, yeah, I'd take him. Seems they are thinking Wilson will fall, so I'd take my chances of getting Clowney + Wilson.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Clowney is obviously the best defensive prospect in several years, but is it really fair to expect him to be a better player than JJ Watt?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Woody Paige said that the Chiefs should trade the #1 overall for Foles. Holy FUCK

[htismaqe]

Woody Paige said that the Chiefs should trade the #1 overall for Foles. Holy FUCK

I saw that.

The other 4 guys proceeded to laugh at him like they do most of the time.

He's the "Around the Horn" village idiot.

[DaKCMan AP]

You really are awful at trying to project trends of any sort, for whatever that's worth.

In 3 years when the rules have made even mediocre QBs capable of throwing for 3,800 yds and everyone's chasing pass rushers, you're going to be on the other side of this argument.

You're a weather-vane that doesn't generally have a salient thought at all until someone feeds it to you. The extent of your 'insight' is to parrot PFF and even that is just more of you peddling someone else's work. You simply jump from bandwagon to bandwagon. The next time you're ahead of the curve will be the first.

I'm not sure why anyone bothers to take you seriously. Ever.

The reality is this: The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of Geno Smith never winning a SB either. Try to bring something more to the table than mindlessly pounding a table.

I'd honestly be shocked if Claynus watched one minute of college football. He doesn't have an original thought of his own, he jumps bandwagons constantly and then comes up with completely ridiculous bullshit posts like:

Kevin Greene never won a SB and has (X) number of sacks, like that means fucking anything.

It doesn't. It's a circular argument that anyone who likes Clowney more than Geno Smith can counter with just as many examples of really good QBs not winning them either.

If this board's talent evaluation was a gym kickball game, I'd be picking GoChiefs around the same spot I pick Chiefzilla and Blackbob.


:clap:

[Nightfyre]

I love what Clowney has to offer and if he were magically available I would probably be torn between him and Geno.

What if we just went to the podium this april and submitted a draft card that named Clowney? What would Goodell do with that shit?

[DJ's left nut]

And they're all from 2009.

I was off this turd's bandwagon after that Bills game in 2010.

Your post was bullshit.

No, it really wasn't.

Like I said, not being the last idiot on the bandwagon doesn't mean you weren't just another shill that had to be force-fed reality.

Again, your track record speaks for itself. LJ, Herm, Cassel, Balla-ass GM, on and on it goes.

There are people on this board who, when they speak ahead of time ought be listened to because they generally have a pulse for these things before they're fairly obvious to all but the recently deceased. You are not one of those people. You're just the loudest of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon jumpers and one of the only ones that is so completely lacking in self-awareness that you'll claim credit for the prescience of those that came before you (many of whom you mocked before your 'change of heart').

You're a pawn, really. A footsoldier. You're a useful ally in that, when you finally have reality shoved down your throat, you can make some slick little .gifs and videos to help buttress an argument.

But as far as trying to actually stake a high-ground and then somehow condescend towards people that disagree with you? Sorry sport, you have nowhere near the bona fides to pull that one off.

But hey, if we need someone to use their premium account to rattle off the PFF ratings complied by actual creative minds that came up with an idea of their own, we'll be sure to let you know.

[DaneMcCloud]

No, it really wasn't.

Like I said, not being the last idiot on the bandwagon doesn't mean you weren't just another shill that had to be force-fed reality.

Again, your track record speaks for itself. LJ, Herm, Cassel, Balla-ass GM, on and on it goes.

There are people on this board who, when they speak ahead of time ought be listened to because they generally have a pulse for these things before they're fairly obvious to all but the recently deceased. You are not one of those people. You're just the loudest of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon jumpers and one of the only ones that is so completely lacking in self-awareness that you'll claim credit for the prescience of those that came before you (many of whom you mocked before your 'change of heart').

You're a pawn, really. A footsoldier. You're a useful ally in that, when you finally have reality shoved down your throat, you can make some slick little .gifs and videos to help buttress an argument.

But as far as trying to actually stake a high-ground and then somehow condescend towards people that disagree with you? Sorry sport, you have nowhere near the bona fides to pull that one off.

But hey, if we need someone to use their premium account to rattle off the PFF ratings complied by actual creative minds that came up with an idea of their own, we'll be sure to let you know.

boom

[B14ckmon]

I love what Clowney has to offer and if he were magically available I would probably be torn between him and Geno.

What if we just went to the podium this april and submitted a draft card that named Clowney? What would Goodell do with that shit?

Skip the Chiefs draft pick entirely. You have to declare for the draft to be drafted.

[milkman]

He threw up a duck while in the grasp and the guy caught it with his helmet. In any other play, that's called in the grasp and the play is over.

I love your takes on here, but this isn't one of them. Calling that a well placed throw is just wow.

The Giants defense held the best offense of all time to 14 points.

Eli didn't make that throw while in the grasp.

The refs should have ruled in the grasp, but they didn't, so that's irrelevant.

He broke out of that tackle, broke out of containment to his right, set his feet and dropped a perfect floater over the head of the corner in front of Tyree and the safety breaking to the ball behind Tyree.

That was the perfect pass.

[ChiefRocka]

boom

LMAO

[Fat Elvis]

What would be sweet is if Clowney challenged the three year rule, the ruling goes in his favor--but after the draft-- and he enters the supplemental draft. Weeeee!

With the first pick of the draft, the Chiefs select Geno Smith--and with the first pick of the supplemental draft, the Chiefs select Jadeveon Clowney.

[Fat Elvis]

What would be sweet is if Clowney challenged the three year rule, the ruling goes in his favor--but after the draft-- and he enters the supplemental draft. Weeeee!

With the first pick of the draft, the Chiefs select Geno Smith--and with the first pick of the supplemental draft, the Chiefs select Jadeveon Clowney.

Or would the Jags get the #1 pick in the supplemental draft?

Edit: It is a strange lottery system...that sucks

[Brock]

No, it really wasn't.

Like I said, not being the last idiot on the bandwagon doesn't mean you weren't just another shill that had to be force-fed reality.

Again, your track record speaks for itself. LJ, Herm, Cassel, Balla-ass GM, on and on it goes.

There are people on this board who, when they speak ahead of time ought be listened to because they generally have a pulse for these things before they're fairly obvious to all but the recently deceased. You are not one of those people. You're just the loudest of the Johnny-come-lately bandwagon jumpers and one of the only ones that is so completely lacking in self-awareness that you'll claim credit for the prescience of those that came before you (many of whom you mocked before your 'change of heart').

You're a pawn, really. A footsoldier. You're a useful ally in that, when you finally have reality shoved down your throat, you can make some slick little .gifs and videos to help buttress an argument.

But as far as trying to actually stake a high-ground and then somehow condescend towards people that disagree with you? Sorry sport, you have nowhere near the bona fides to pull that one off.

But hey, if we need someone to use their premium account to rattle off the PFF ratings complied by actual creative minds that came up with an idea of their own, we'll be sure to let you know.

+

[Bewbies]

LMAO

Claythan is Blackbob. That's perfect!

[Coogs]

A few question here with regards to Clowney.

How does he fit in our 3-4 defense?

I have not seen him play much. From the clips a few posts back, he looks to be lining up as a 4-3 defensive end.

JJ Watt was 6-5, 290 comming out of Wisconsin. He is now listed as weighing 295.

Clowney is listed as 6-6, 256 in the OP.

At 256, as a DE in a 3-4, wouldn't that be asking a little much for Clowney to be making plays like Watt does in Houston's 3-4? Can Clowney be effective if he is asked to add 40 pounds?

Or, do we switch to the 4-3 defense if he were to be the pick?

And yes, I do understand it is not likely he will even be in the draft this April. But just in case he is, how does his talent translate into what we now run?

[B14ckmon]

It does not matter how Clowney fits your defense. You make your defense fit Clowney.

[Coogs]

It does not matter how Clowney fits your defense. You make your defense fit Clowney.

So we would switch to the 4-3?

[chiefscafan]

I agree but how does the supplemental draft work. Since we have the worst record do we get first dibs on him?

[B14ckmon]

So we would switch to the 4-3?

For arguably one of the best defensive prospect in nfl history? Yes.

I understand that the more casual CFB fans may have just found out about Clowney this year, but the kid has been a big deal since his senior year in HS.

[Coogs]

For arguably one of the best defensive prospect in nfl history? Yes.

I understand that the more casual CFB fans may have just found out about Clowney this year, but the kid has been a big deal since his senior year in HS.

Ok, thanks!

[chiefscafan]

Yep being the Bama fan I am we recruited him heavy it came down to us and south Carolina he wanted to stay home. The kid is a stud and yes you change your defense to match him. Hell you bring back the falcon and let him be DT. He has potential to be that dominating. Which is a huge compliment from me being the reason im a chief fan is because of DT.

[milkman]

I don't think you worry much about his weight.

He's 20 years old and and will naturally add weight.

[Coogs]

Yep being the Bama fan I am we recruited him heavy it came down to us and south Carolina he wanted to stay home. The kid is a stud and yes you change your defense to match him. Hell you bring back the falcon and let him be DT. He has potential to be that dominating. Which is a huge compliment from me being the reason im a chief fan is because of DT.

Interesting.

I guess from reading this thread, JJ Watt was the mental picture I was getting... which is a 3-4 DE. And while Watt is dominating, he is much bigger weight wise.

Personally I don't think it would be that difficult for us to switch back to the 4-3 look.

And for the record, I am still on the Geno Smith bandwagon. But if we are not going with Smith, I would prefer this guy over any other option that is out there.

Too bad he is not an option at this point.

[Coogs]

I don't think you worry much about his weight.

He's 20 years old and and will naturally add weight.

Understand. But starting from the mid 250's... that's pretty light for a 3-4 DE, no? And I was assuming that is where most of our posters were penciling him in... to be JJ Watt in our 3-4.

[DJ's left nut]

Understand. But starting from the mid 250's... that's pretty light for a 3-4 DE, no? And I was assuming that is where most of our posters were penciling him in... to be JJ Watt in our 3-4.

Look at how big he is, though. His frame could take on another 20 lbs pretty easily just through maturity. Through an NFL strength and conditioning program, I think he could add another 10 without batting an eye. Justin Smith plays at 285 and he's plenty strong.

I also think that Watt is on some serious horse steroids. He's a huge guy, for sure, but look at the bloated, bubbly, 'water-balloon' shape he has. He looks juiced to the gills to me.

And Clowney's going to be more explosive than Watt, even if he doesn't end up as heavy.

I think assuming he'll get to 290-300 is a reach, but I don't think he'd have to in order to be the best DE in the league within 2 seasons.

[tooge]

I'm late to the party here, but my $.02 is that the rule is the rule. If they change it, then it'll be changed for everyone. Play the year or sit out a year, but either way, the NFL has a rule in place for a reason.

[Tribal Warfare]

So we would switch to the 4-3?

if he's like Kearse/LT, he can play Rushbacker too