"The way it looks now back-up Geoff Schwartz ... will likely sign elsewhere."

[Direckshun]

So says the guy who runs draftinsider.net, Tony Pauline, talking to people all week at the Combine:

Kansas City Chiefs:

I'm told Branden Albert may not be the only veteran offensive lineman out the door in Kansas City. The way it looks now back-up Geoff Schwartz, who received heavy interest at the combine, will likely sign elsewhere.

Follow Tony Pauline @TonyPauline.

He's also reporting the rumor that the Raiders want to try to re-sign McFadden, but they are unlikely to pull it off.

[The Franchise]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RDJ5ZVnXpUY/UEMx2-pM4LI/AAAAAAAACkc/4fT2K3MAk-g/s1600/jimmy-mcnulty.gif

[Direckshun]

This is bad, folks. Real bad.

We can plug the holes at nearly every position we have a departing veteran at, but it gets a lot harder at guard if we lose both Asamoah and Schwartz. We only have six draft picks, and now you have to think that the Chiefs will be considering OL with the 1st round pick.

Ugh.

I suppose this also raises the flag for Rishaw Johnson, who looked excellent against the Chargers. And for folks like BossChief, it also raises the flag for Hudson at guard with Kush taking over starting center duties.

But let's face the facts here: Schwartz is an excellent guard that we could have for relative peanuts.

[htismaqe]

Well, that pretty much blows all of the discussion here out of the water. Pretty much everybody had Schwartz pencilled in as the starter.

[TimBone]

This is super bad news.

[ThaVirus]

Well....... Fuck.

[Direckshun]

Well, that pretty much blows all of the discussion here out of the water. Pretty much everybody had Schwartz pencilled in as the starter.

Agreed.

How they go about plugging that hole is anybody's guess.

However, we are going to be destroying in compensatory picks next year if we try to find an in-house or Draft solution for Schwartz.

Albert (surefire 3rd)
Jackson (4th)
McCluster (5th-6th)
Asamoah (6th-7th)
Abdullah (6th-7th)
Schwartz?? (5th-7th)

[In58men]

OL in the first round ROFL ROFL

[Rain Man]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RDJ5ZVnXpUY/UEMx2-pM4LI/AAAAAAAACkc/4fT2K3MAk-g/s1600/jimmy-mcnulty.gif


This.

Why on earth would he leave? He has a home with the Chiefs, and it seemed like he'd pretty much beaten Asamoah out for the starting job.

[Direckshun]

This.

Why on earth would he leave? He has a home with the Chiefs, and it seemed like he'd pretty much beaten Asamoah out for the starting job.

$

[BlackHelicopters]

1.23

[loochy]

I don't quite understand why...

[MotherfuckerJones]

We should tag and trade Albert if possible

[Direckshun]

1.23

The one piece of good news on that front is that there is not a clear cut guard that would be excellent at 1.23.

Oh, shit. Except for Zack Martin.

Fuuuuuuck me.

[RealSNR]

That fucking sucks. I hope it's not true.

The Chiefs have some money to spend. If they let nearly all their free agents go to other teams except for cheap-o ones like Demps or Jordan, they've got some money they can still spend. And that's even if they try to extend Smith and Berry.

They would be wise to spend SOME of that, hopefully along the offensive line where longterm consistency is more important than it is at other position groups.

If we have to settle for Asamoah, I guess that's what we'll do. But damn, Schwartz would have been nice to keep.

[Eleazar]

We should tag and trade Albert if possible

:facepalm:

[RealSNR]

$

What are the top 10-15 contracts for guards? Numbers-wise? I'm not expecting us to give him Levitre money, but I'd be willing to shell some dough out to keep Schwartz here long-term.

Better than fucking away more draft picks in the first 3 rounds at the fucking offensive line.

[Direckshun]

Xavier Su'a-Filo is coming out this year, right?

You'd have to consider him an option for the Chiefs now at 1.23, too.

[Direckshun]

What are the top 10-15 contracts for guards? Numbers-wise? I'm not expecting us to give him Levitre money, but I'd be willing to shell some dough out to keep Schwartz here long-term.

Better than ****ing away more draft picks in the first 3 rounds at the ****ing offensive line.

Shrug.

Schwartz just says he wants a multi-year deal.

3 years, $8m would lock him up, you'd think. We'll have to see what he gets if/when he does sign elsewhere.

[Rain Man]

Maybe he was told that Branden Albert is moving to guard.

And I should admit that I'm just saying that to rile people up.

[Mr. Laz]

Disappointing ... i guess we are going to let Rinshaw Johnson and Rokevious Watkins fight it out for RG

lots of competition along the Oline next year

[Steron]

Damn.

[Direckshun]

That ****ing sucks. I hope it's not true.

The Chiefs have some money to spend. If they let nearly all their free agents go to other teams except for cheap-o ones like Demps or Jordan, they've got some money they can still spend. And that's even if they try to extend Smith and Berry.

They would be wise to spend SOME of that, hopefully along the offensive line where longterm consistency is more important than it is at other position groups.

If we have to settle for Asamoah, I guess that's what we'll do. But damn, Schwartz would have been nice to keep.

They benched Asamoah. They're almost certainly going to try to find an in house option or bring one in through the Draft.

[Rain Man]

Xavier Su'a-Filo is coming out this year, right?

You'd have to consider him an option for the Chiefs now at 1.23, too.


Are you just making up names? That can't be a real name. X's, apostrohes, dashes...come on.

[Sfeihc]

I've had a feeling it could go this way for a couple of weeks now. Just seeing how FA is shaping up some team will show him more $ than the CHIEFS can.

[Direckshun]

Disappointing ... i guess we are going to let Rinshaw Johnson and Rokevious Watkins fight it out for RG

lots of competition along the Oline next year

Wouldn't even be close. Johnson was dominant against the Chargers, and Watkins got his shit pushed in.

As BossChief would tell you, the REAL competition here is between Johnson and Kush.

[Direckshun]

Are you just making up names? That can't be a real name. X's, apostrohes, dashes...come on.

He's part Klingon.

[PhillyChiefFan]

Oh please let this be smoke and mirrors from the Schwartz camp....

[tooge]

this sucks the big schwartz

[tooge]

If he does leave, may the schwartz be with him

[Mr. Laz]

Wouldn't even be close. Johnson was dominant against the Chargers, and Watkins got his shit pushed in.

As BossChief would tell you, the REAL competition here is between Johnson and Kush.
You reference Bosschief a lot, like that's supposed to mean something.

No offense meant to BC but why the **** would his opinion decide anything?

why would Johnson and Kush be competing? I haven't heard anything about Kush moving from center. Maybe Kush winning the center job and pushing Hudson out to compete at guard.

[BlackHelicopters]

Let the hate flow through you.

[Direckshun]

You reference Bosschief a lot, like that's supposed to mean something.

No offense meant to BC but why the **** would his opinion decide anything?

why would Johnson and Kush be competing? I haven't heard anything about Kush moving from center.

Just giving credit where it's due. BossChief's been on the "move Hudson to guard and start Kush at center" train longer than seemingly everyone.

Hudson would be fine at either center or guard -- the question is, who's better at their position, Johnson at RG, or Eric Kush at C?

My hope is that they'll resolve the issue that way instead of spending a high draft pick or spending money in FA.

If we're going to let our best guard walk, then gimme that compensatory pick.

[RealSNR]

2014 base salaries for guards:

http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/guard/

I know these don't tell the whole story about the kind of contracts the players are signing, but they're an indicator of the average.

Direckshun threw out a 3 years 8 million figure. Plus the signing bonus, that'd average out to 3-3.5 million a year for Schwartz. That puts him in the range of Louis Vasquez, Dan Connolly, Todd Herremans, Chris Chester, TJ Lang, and Donald Thomas (22-17)

I don't know about everyone else, but with the market as it is and the way Schwartz played once he took over for Asamoah full-time, I'd be willing to do that and more.

In this case, I'm all in favor of throwing money at the problem instead of draft picks. Keep Rishaw Johnson and Rok Watkins hungry for Jeff Allen's job. Mix competition with chemistry. It's about time we fixed the offensive line once and for all.

[Direckshun]

2014 base salaries for guards:

http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/guard/

I know these don't tell the whole story about the kind of contracts the players are signing, but they're an indicator of the average.

Direckshun threw out a 3 years 8 million figure. Plus the signing bonus, that'd average out to 3-3.5 million a year for Schwartz. That puts him in the range of Louis Vasquez, Dan Connolly, Todd Herremans, Chris Chester, TJ Lang, and Donald Thomas (22-17)

I don't know about everyone else, but with the market as it is and the way Schwartz played once he took over for Asamoah full-time, I'd be willing to do that and more.

In this case, I'm all in favor of throwing money at the problem instead of draft picks. Keep Rishaw Johnson and Rok Watkins hungry for Jeff Allen's job. Mix competition with chemistry. It's about time we fixed the offensive line once and for all.

Losing Albert and Schwartz in the same offseason? Talk about a huge, gaping leadership void.

[RealSNR]

Fuck, I want to make a joke about Jews and money sooooooo bad right now

[Direckshun]

****, I want to make a joke about Jews and money sooooooo bad right now

LMAO

That is not funny.

LMAO

[Mr. Laz]

Just giving credit where it's due. BossChief's been on the "move Hudson to guard and start Kush at center" train longer than seemingly everyone.

Hudson would be fine at either center or guard -- the question is, who's better at their position, Johnson at RG, or Eric Kush at C?

My hope is that they'll resolve the issue that way instead of spending a high draft pick or spending money in FA.

If we're going to let our best guard walk, then gimme that compensatory pick.fair enough



I don't want to lose Schwartz but i don't think it's the end of the word. I think we have some talent to move around. If Kush wins the center job then Hudson can play guard. That backup looked really good against the Chargers and he might step up. Looked like he had decent power. If both things happen them maybe Allen gets bumped to swing tackle.

[Rain Man]

He's part Klingon.

Oh, okay. That makes a lot of sense.

[Discuss Thrower]

Yet another hole develops. Because Chiefs.

[Direckshun]

Yeah, I re-watched that Chargers game like four times.

Rishaw Johnson looked like a seasoned pro. Dominated his guy most of the game.

Chiefs were incredibly smart to take that Chargers game and try out their backups.

[Mr. Laz]

Losing Albert and Schwartz in the same offseason? Talk about a huge, gaping leadership void.

leadership is a big loss

[Direckshun]

leadership is a big loss

Yeah. :/

Honestly, this Chiefs team needs leadership as much (if not more) than they need any particular position.

Fact: great leadership makes everybody play better. A void of leadership makes everybody play worse (see: the Matt Cassel years).

Albert and Schwartz are not "great" leaders, but their absence does create a void.

[saphojunkie]

I'm sorry, but losing a guard who has been on the roster for literally less than a calendar year is not going to create a massive leadership void.

[Direckshun]

I'm sorry, but losing a guard who has been on the roster for literally less than a calendar year is not going to create a massive leadership void.

Two facts:

1. The Chiefs have zero leadership on offense outside of Alex Smith, Branden Albert and Schwartz.

2. Geoff Schwartz was incredibly popular and outspoken in the locker room.

[saphojunkie]

Two facts:

1. The Chiefs have zero leadership on offense outside of Alex Smith, Branden Albert and Schwartz.

2. Geoff Schwartz was incredibly popular and outspoken in the locker room.

I like you, dude. I really like your posts. But neither of those are facts.

They are impressions. Subjective ones.

[RealSNR]

I wish Jamaal Charles were a vocal individual. It's the only drawback against him. That his personality is the silent mercenary type.

If he got on everybody's asses to work the way he does... damn.

[ThaVirus]

I wish Jamaal Charles were a vocal individual. It's the only drawback against him. That his personality is the silent mercenary type.

If he got on everybody's asses to work the way he does... damn.

I feel you but he leads by example better than anyone on the roster.

[Discuss Thrower]

I like you, dude. I really like your posts. But neither of those are facts.

They are impressions. Subjective ones.

There's almost no leadership on the team. Guys like DJ were no where to be found for interviews after the last Denver game this year. Only Dunta Robinson displayed any sort of fire on the sideline over the course of the whole season.

[Direckshun]

I like you, dude. I really like your posts. But neither of those are facts.

They are impressions. Subjective ones.

And you disagree with them?

[Rausch]

There's almost no leadership on the team. Guys like DJ were no where to be found for interviews after the last Denver game this year.

And doing interviews is what makes a leader?...

[Discuss Thrower]

And doing interviews is what makes a leader?...

He's the most veteran member of the defense, if not the whole franchise, and he got the **** out of Dodge to avoid talking to the press about a pretty bad home loss to a division rival.

That tells me all I need to know about the leadership for the team: there isn't any.

[RealSNR]

And doing interviews is what makes a leader?...

Leader:

http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/i.jpg

[Direckshun]

There's little question Winston was the alpha male on that OL when he was here.

Just a huge vacuum of guys willing to step up and be the man.

Doesn't help that we brought in a very low key, laissez faire QB.

[saphojunkie]

And you disagree with them?

I neither agree nor disagree. I have absolutely no idea how the remaining three starting offensive linemen felt about Schwartz. Did they really perform better because they were "led" by him? Did he really inspire them to better play? Are they going to suffer because a guy who was on the bench for 9 games isn't there to lead them?

I honestly can't tell you for sure, but I doubt it.

Dude signed a one year contract, started seven games, and is a free agent. I'm not sure this is quite the devastating scenario that it's being made out to be.

Or maybe it is. We went from 2-14 to 11-5. But I'm pretty sure the biggest leadership boost on offense came from Alex Smith, not a backup guard.



Doesn't help that we brought in a very low key, laissez faire QB.

Okay, I think we just have wildly different interpretations of the leadership situation on the team.

[alpha_omega]

Well, most everyone has already said it in one fashion or another, but...i agree, i don't like this at all.

[KC native]

Fuck, I want to make a joke about Jews and money sooooooo bad right now

Do it :fire:

[kcjayhawks5]

FUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[Rausch]

He's the most veteran member of the defense, if not the whole franchise, and he got the **** out of Dodge to avoid talking to the press about a pretty bad home loss to a division rival.

That tells me all I need to know about the leadership for the team: there isn't any.

I guess he should have just whined and got butthurt before storming off like Payed-a-Ton?...

[jonzie04]

horrible news. gawd damnit. hope they can work a deal out.

[jonzie04]

also feel bad for Jamaal. sucks to spend your prime years running behind a bum o line. I couldn't imagine how well he would have done with an o line like priest had with Jamaal in his prime years.

[KINGPIN CHIEFS FAN]

There's little question Winston was the alpha male on that OL when he was here.

Just a huge vacuum of guys willing to step up and be the man.

Doesn't help that we brought in a very low key, laissez faire QB.

Yeah he's definitely no Tim Tebow! I'll take a leader like Alex Smith anytime.

[OldSchool]

Say hello to your new Kansas City Chief!
http://www.subwaydomer.com/images/zack%20martin%20notre%20dame%20captain.jpg
LMAO

[saphojunkie]

He's the most veteran member of the defense, if not the whole franchise, and he got the **** out of Dodge to avoid talking to the press about a pretty bad home loss to a division rival.

That tells me all I need to know about the leadership for the team: there isn't any.

It tells me that goosestepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them!

I kid.

Actually, it tells me the guy didn't feel like talking to a ****ing reporter. Big deal. Last I checked, he isn't supposed to be leading the reporters.

[Jimmya]

Surely the Chiefs brass can draft some good lineman!

[Discuss Thrower]

It tells me that goosestepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them!

I kid.

Actually, it tells me the guy didn't feel like talking to a ****ing reporter. Big deal. Last I checked, he isn't supposed to be leading the reporters.

:facepalm:

He's the purported leader of the defense. The defensive effort in the last Denver game and in the playoff loss was terrible. Generally, a player has to be accountable for such bad play leading to a loss. Why didn't he? Because he's not a leader.

Hell, Derrick Johnson showed more passion for the game in the freaking Pro Bowl by headshotting his own teammate in order to win that extra bonus money for getting MVP. Where the fuck was that kind of desire in the latter half of the season?

And before all of you minions point out that DJ's role in the 3-4 wipes him out of making plays, then it's probably time to question whether or not he's worth the contract he's playing on then. You can't tell me that there isn't some FA off the street who couldn't step in and immediately replace him in the lineup.

[LoneWolf]

But let's face the facts here: Schwartz is an excellent guard that we could have for relative peanuts.

$

These two posts seem in contradiction of each other. First you say we could have Schwartz for relative peanuts and then when somebody asks why Shwartz would leave you say $. Fact is that if he is as well thought of around the league as this guy is saying, somebody is going to throw a fairly substantial contract at him. With the way the Chiefs are in relation to the cap, spending heavily on a guard would not be wise. I'd rather resign Asomoah (sp) for a lower contract and let the guys we have fight it out for starting positions along the line. Let the best 5 lineman play.

Dorsey isn't drafting an offensive lineman in Rd. 1. Everybody can get that thought out of their heads now. There is enough young talent on the roster to field an effective offensive line and Dorsey isn't going to draft a guard in the first round with as much talent is available in this draft.

[CoMoChief]

This is bad, folks. Real bad.

We can plug the holes at nearly every position we have a departing veteran at, but it gets a lot harder at guard if we lose both Asamoah and Schwartz. We only have six draft picks, and now you have to think that the Chiefs will be considering OL with the 1st round pick.

Ugh.

I suppose this also raises the flag for Rishaw Johnson, who looked excellent against the Chargers. And for folks like BossChief, it also raises the flag for Hudson at guard with Kush taking over starting center duties.

But let's face the facts here: Schwartz is an excellent guard that we could have for relative peanuts.

Asamoah sucks. There are plenty of guards in this draft that can do just as good or better than him. He was horrible last season, after many believed he was an up n coming ascending player in the league.

[Urc Burry]

The sky is always falling. I'll be worried when free agency starts. Does no one remember the day before free agency opened last year?

[-King-]

:facepalm:

He's the purported leader of the defense. The defensive effort in the last Denver game and in the playoff loss was terrible. Generally, a player has to be accountable for such bad play leading to a loss. Why didn't he? Because he's not a leader.

Hell, Derrick Johnson showed more passion for the game in the freaking Pro Bowl by headshotting his own teammate in order to win that extra bonus money for getting MVP. Where the fuck was that kind of desire in the latter half of the season?

And before all of you minions point out that DJ's role in the 3-4 wipes him out of making plays, then it's probably time to question whether or not he's worth the contract he's playing on then. You can't tell me that there isn't some FA off the street who couldn't step in and immediately replace him in the lineup.

So when a team game plans to keep him in coverage, what is he supposed to do?

And give me the names of the street FAs that can come in and be all pros. I'll wait.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TEX]

Asamoah sucks. There are plenty of guards in this draft that can do just as good or better than him. He was horrible last season, after many believed he was an up n coming ascending player in the league.

This. SO does Allen.

[TEX]

horrible news. gawd damnit. hope they can work a deal out.

I bet they will. Both Dorsey and Reid KNOW first hand how important quality depth on the O-line is. IF they lose him, I'm confident the Chiefs will find a quality replacement.

[ThaVirus]

DJ wasn't completely useless in the Indy playoff game. Those guys couldn't run the ball for shit and that was due in large part to the defensive like and DJ..

It's not hard to throw the ball away from an ILB though. Once they abandoned the run, it pretty much took him out of the game.

[saphojunkie]

:facepalm:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH




This guy must be a great leader. He talked to reporters.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

[nychief]

well, we could move Hudson to guard and start Kush.

[The Bad Guy]

This is bad, folks. Real bad.

We can plug the holes at nearly every position we have a departing veteran at, but it gets a lot harder at guard if we lose both Asamoah and Schwartz. We only have six draft picks, and now you have to think that the Chiefs will be considering OL with the 1st round pick.

Ugh.

I suppose this also raises the flag for Rishaw Johnson, who looked excellent against the Chargers. And for folks like BossChief, it also raises the flag for Hudson at guard with Kush taking over starting center duties.

But let's face the facts here: Schwartz is an excellent guard that we could have for relative peanuts.

You're over-dramatic.

[Rausch]

Asamoah sucks. There are plenty of guards in this draft that can do just as good or better than him. He was horrible last season, after many believed he was an up n coming ascending player in the league.

He was horrible the 2nd half of last season.

If any of the articles online are to believed he was fighting injuries...

[kc79]

Chill out people. This is the time of year when GM's and coaches aren't very truthful. Reports like this come out every year. Everything will work itself out

[Grim]

Who the fuck is Tony Pauline?
Why should we put any stock in anything he has to say?

[mcaj22]

i called Schwartz getting overpaid on the open market and got bashed for it because people here thought we were going to keep him for cheap. It was so obvious his play at guard was being noticed by teams with even shittier olines and a lot of cap space.

[Rain Man]

How the h*** did we lose a 28 point lead? HOW? HOW?


Sorry. That just slips out sometimes when we talk about football.

[Titty Meat]

This makes no sense. Schwartz can also play right tackle and will be needed for the often injured Fisher.

[chiefzilla1501]

I really like the job Schwartz did.

But right now, we have Allen, Hudson, Rokevius Watkins... and they can all do an adequate job at a position that's not that important. Kush can start at Center, and Allen and Hudson can be plug-ins for Kush later.

Plus we have the draft and undrafted rookies.

I would like to keep Schwartz, but I don't want to overpay a guy to play Guard.

[RINGLEADER]

If we have to settle for Asamoah, I guess that's what we'll do. But damn, Schwartz would have been nice to keep.

There was a huge difference in the offense when Schwartz became the starter. Asamoah just doesn't have the skillz...

[RINGLEADER]

I really like the job Schwartz did.

But right now, we have Allen, Hudson, Rokevius Watkins... and they can all do an adequate job at a position that's not that important. Kush can start at Center, and Allen and Hudson can be plug-ins for Kush later.

Plus we have the draft and undrafted rookies.

I would like to keep Schwartz, but I don't want to overpay a guy to play Guard.

Stop being reasonable dammit...

[ThaVirus]

If we let Albert and Schwartz walk what's the average age of our offensive line going to be?

[Mr. Laz]

i called Schwartz getting overpaid on the open market and got bashed for it because people here thought we were going to keep him for cheap. It was so obvious his play at guard was being noticed by teams with even shittier olines and a lot of cap space.
you always predict something bad happening


'it sucks or will suck soon'/mcaj


big fucking deal

[Mr. Laz]

If we let Albert and Schwartz walk what's the average age of our offensive line going to be?

around 24

all of them will be 23,24 or 25 years old

[mcaj22]

you always predict something bad happening


'it sucks or will suck soon'/mcaj


big ****ing deal

It isn't a big deal, but people on here are very defensive when it comes to their delusional thinking of the Chiefs. Case and point, we can keep Geoff Schwartz cheap. Then reality hits and panic mode starts, i.e. this thread. I've accepted it long ago that our line will be fine with other/better players.

[Brock]

Who the fuck is Tony Pauline?
Why should we put any stock in anything he has to say?

He writes for SI covering the senior bowl and combine.

[ThaVirus]

you always predict something bad happening


'it sucks or will suck soon'/mcaj


big ****ing deal

Heh. Mcaj really is one of the most depressing reads on the site..

We had to have guessed that Schwartz would draw some interest, though. He supplanted a starter on the line of one of the better offenses in the league last season. When he officially took the RG spot our pass blocking and run blocking efficiency went through the roof.

Then you have to take a look at the offensive line situation of a lot of teams around the league. The Dolphins, Cardinals and Steelers are a few that are even just decent line play away from being playoff teams and possibly powerhouses.

[mcaj22]

stay depressed then when the team does something good it feels a lot better.

just wait until that first playoff win comes, going to be a good day.

[MotherfuckerJones]

We're losing Schwartz...big fucking deal. We can upgrade that.

[ThaVirus]

I'm not hating, man. At least you're not a troll like Clay.

Also, we have to have had one of the worst records in the league since 2000 so I guess there really hasn't been much positive to talk about lately.

One thing I will say about you is that you seem to have a lot of knowledge of other teams and their players. It seems a lot of people here just watch the Chiefs games and then turn the TV off. I can't talk football with those guys.

[Mr. Laz]

Heh. Mcaj really is one of the most depressing reads on the site..

We had to have guessed that Schwartz would draw some interest, though. He supplanted a starter on the line of one of the better offenses in the league last season. When he officially took the RG spot our pass blocking and run blocking efficiency went through the roof.

Then you have to take a look at the offensive line situation of a lot of teams around the league. The Dolphins, Cardinals and Steelers are a few that are even just decent line play away from being playoff teams and possibly powerhouses.schwartz isn't gone yet and even if he is we already have possible replacements

people always bitch that good teams just patch together their Olines ..... well?

[Simply Red]

I'm not being a dick - but I swear to God I have no clue who Geoff Schwartz is.

[Titty Meat]

stay depressed then when the team does something good it feels a lot better.

just wait until that first playoff win comes, going to be a good day.

Maybe in 20 fucking years

[jspchief]

I'm not being a dick - but I swear to God I have no clue who Geoff Schwartz is.This surprises no one.

[Simply Red]

This surprises no one.

Yeah I know. I'm googling this up immediately - I'll offer my football perspective here shortly, once I find out who he is.

[Sfeihc]

Hey Red, I don't know if you're on twitter or not but @goeffschwartz is a great follow among CHIEFS players.

[T-post Tom]

Don't believe this. He'll be back.

[Eleazar]

I really hope he stays. Good guy, good player. No good reason to let him walk.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

My elbow itches.

[Direckshun]

How the h*** did we lose a 28 point lead? HOW? HOW?

Sorry. That just slips out sometimes when we talk about football.

I'm not being a dick - but I swear to God I have no clue who Geoff Schwartz is.

LMAO

I swear to god you guys are the MVPs of this forum.

[Cannibal]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RDJ5ZVnXpUY/UEMx2-pM4LI/AAAAAAAACkc/4fT2K3MAk-g/s1600/jimmy-mcnulty.gif

Ha. Very appropriate gif.

[OldSchool]

It could be an effort from his camp to raise the Chiefs' current offer to him. Flip side to that is, if we don't make that offer, he could very well just go to a team who will pay him what he thinks he's worth.

[Mav]

This.

Why on earth would he leave? He has a home with the Chiefs, and it seemed like he'd pretty much beaten Asamoah out for the starting job.

He has a brother in Cleveland. They are going to play side by side.

[BossChief]

Just trying to play the voice of reason here. Even though it would piss me off if we lose GS to a reasonable FA deal, John Dorsey DOES NOT SLEEP.

He is a mutant. A half machine half created human with no need for food or sleep.

He is constantly watching tape and interviewing players.

I bet he is doing one of the 2 right now.

Last offseason, he went out and found a bunch of talented players at the vet min or bargain basement prices that played big roles for us.

Schwartz
Abdullah
Jordan
Demps (great signing as just a returner, not so much as a safety)
Avery

Just to name a few.

He also got other players like Marcus Cooper and Tyler Bray with no investment.

He found a "Geoff Scwartz" before and he will find one again...but I also doubt the validity of this report because I highly doubt that any decision to let him go has been made at this point.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I would like to know why one game is enough of a sample size to make an evaluation on a professional football player.

This, "X played awesome against SD, therefore X is awesome," is just flat out idiotic.

[tk13]

I would like to know why one game is enough of a sample size to make an evaluation on a professional football player.

This, "X played awesome against SD, therefore X is awesome," is just flat out idiotic.

Somewhere Matt Flynn is giving you the middle finger.

[Jiu Jitsu Jon]

He's also reporting the rumor that the Raiders want to try to re-sign McFadden, but they are unlikely to pull it off.

No.

[chiefzilla1501]

I would like to know why one game is enough of a sample size to make an evaluation on a professional football player.

This, "X played awesome against SD, therefore X is awesome," is just flat out idiotic.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Between Allen, Hudson, and Watkins, we have options at a position that isn't really that important. I'd like to sign Schwartz, but not for too much and life will go on without him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't think anyone is saying that. Between Allen, Hudson, and Watkins, we have options at a position that isn't really that important. I'd like to sign Schwartz, but not for too much and life will go on without him.

It has been said literally thousands of times in the last two months, and several times in this thread.

[BossChief]

I would like to know why one game is enough of a sample size to make an evaluation on a professional football player.

This, "X played awesome against SD, therefore X is awesome," is just flat out idiotic.

Not sure who is saying any of these guys are awesome, but there were a handful of players that went out there and showed they belonged on the field that day against a team that was already in playoff mode.

Kush
Watkins
Powe
Catapano
Bailey

I'm excited to see the future of those guys because of that.

If two or three of them become average starting quality players, that's a fairly big deal. It's a good sign when younger guys play well at the end of the year.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's an incredibly limited sample size. It just doesn't mean that much.

[ThaVirus]

It has been said like a motherfucker about Watkins and Kush.

People have been drinking the shit out of the Kool-Aid thinking we'll somehow get better by dropping a premier LT and a RG that proved to be our second best lineman by season's end- at the same time expecting a 5th and 6th round center and guard to somehow stabilize the positions..

[BossChief]

It's an incredibly limited sample size. It just doesn't mean that much.

And at the same time shouldn't be easily discarded.

All some of us are saying about that group is that they showed the ability to play and warrants consideration for increased playing time in the future to see if they can continue to develop while playing a larger role.

I'm of the opinion that Bailey, Powe and Catapano could have helped our starting line stay fresh all year and tat Bob Sutton needs to rotate some of these guys so we get don't burn everyone out next year.

All three showed the ability to disrupt plays.

[Easy 6]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RDJ5ZVnXpUY/UEMx2-pM4LI/AAAAAAAACkc/4fT2K3MAk-g/s1600/jimmy-mcnulty.gif

Yeah, pretty much sums it up... another brick in the wall, gone.

[-King-]

You're over-dramatic.

This. It seems like every direckshuns post lately is him overreacting to something.

[Titty Meat]

Direck isn't overreacting.

Lets breakdown the stupidity of letting Schwartz go.

First of all the offense made drastic improvements once Schwartz was inserted at guard. Its no coincidence that the teams highest scoring outputs were the games Fisher didnt play.

So now they are going to let their 2 best linemen go with a qb who's had injuries in the past and will presumably draft their replacements. Lets keep in mind this is the same failed strategy that got Andy fired and its not like Green Bay picked any o-linemen worth a shit in the first round either.

Schwartz has always been a productive player everywhere he's been. Not resigning him with 12 mil in capspace is fucking stupid.

[Titty Meat]

Andy Reid was the guy who drafted a 28 year old guard in the first round and a backup right tackle first overall so he has no problem wasting first round picks.

[htismaqe]

Direck isn't overreacting.

Lets breakdown the stupidity of letting Schwartz go.

First of all the offense made drastic improvements once Schwartz was inserted at guard. Its no coincidence that the teams highest scoring outputs were the games Fisher didnt play.

So now they are going to let their 2 best linemen go with a qb who's had injuries in the past and will presumably draft their replacements. Lets keep in mind this is the same failed strategy that got Andy fired and its not like Green Bay picked any o-linemen worth a shit in the first round either.

Schwartz has always been a productive player everywhere he's been. Not resigning him with 12 mil in capspace is fucking stupid.

EXCELLENT post.

[Urc Burry]

Direck isn't overreacting.

Lets breakdown the stupidity of letting Schwartz go.

First of all the offense made drastic improvements once Schwartz was inserted at guard. Its no coincidence that the teams highest scoring outputs were the games Fisher didnt play.

So now they are going to let their 2 best linemen go with a qb who's had injuries in the past and will presumably draft their replacements. Lets keep in mind this is the same failed strategy that got Andy fired and its not like Green Bay picked any o-linemen worth a shit in the first round either.

Schwartz has always been a productive player everywhere he's been. Not resigning him with 12 mil in capspace is ****ing stupid.
He's over dramatic because we haven't even begun to resign our players yet. Look at last year.. We signed two key players and franchised Albert at the deadline. Between this and the constant worrying about cap space, it's a little ridiculous. Just let it all play out

[htismaqe]

He's over dramatic because we haven't even begun to resign our players yet. Look at last year.. We signed two key players and franchised Albert at the deadline. Between this and the constant worrying about cap space, it's a little ridiculous. Just let it all play out

Yeah, Heaven forbid we have some football discussion on a football message board...

EVERYBODY SHUT UP.

Just let things play out. We're gonna shut down Chiefsplanet until after the draft.

[Three7s]

Yeah, Heaven forbid we have some football discussion on a football message board...

EVERYBODY SHUT UP.

Just let things play out. We're gonna shut down Chiefsplanet until after the draft.
After the draft? That's not good enough for some people. LMAO

[Titty Meat]

He's over dramatic because we haven't even begun to resign our players yet. Look at last year.. We signed two key players and franchised Albert at the deadline. Between this and the constant worrying about cap space, it's a little ridiculous. Just let it all play out

They were able to sign Bowe at the deadline which allowed them to tag Albert but hindsight that Bowe contract was awful and they would have gotten a much needed comp pick in this draft.

Its a different situation this year. People have the right to be upset until a deal gets worked out and if it doesn't we all should be pissed and question what the regime is doing.

[hometeam]

They were able to sign Bowe at the deadline which allowed them to tag Albert but hindsight that Bowe contract was awful and they would have gotten a much needed comp pick in this draft.

Its a different situation this year. People have the right to be upset until a deal gets worked out and if it doesn't we all should be pissed and question what the regime is doing.

comp picks are more often than not worthless.

I don't understand why people always go OMG COMP PICK when a team wants to let a productive player walk.

[Jimmya]

It's football..... We are fans.... Let the discussions fire up!

[OldSchool]

comp picks are more often than not worthless.

I don't understand why people always go OMG COMP PICK when a team wants to let a productive player walk.

Especially when next year's draft is going to be absolute dog**** compared to what can be had this year.

[Rausch]

comp picks are more often than not worthless.

I don't understand why people always go OMG COMP PICK when a team wants to let a productive player walk.

Well, they're always at the ass-end of a round so if you get a 4 its really like getting a 5.

Honestly I doubt we could get even a 3rd for Albert. There's no point tagging him and he'll walk.

And people need to quit acting like each player lost = draft picks.

That's not how it works. There's some unknown formula that uses starters lost + players signed + value of players lost/signed to = a high pick (I think topping out at a 4th) or more than one lower round pick.

[Rausch]

Especially when next year's draft is going to be absolute dog**** compared to what can be had this year.

That's why I wish we would have ignored the value chart and pushed for a trade down.

Lets say we let ourselves get low balled. For the sake of argument let's say we swapped the no 1 for the no 24 and all we got in return was a no 2 last year and no 2 this year.

I would have taken that in a heartbeat. That would offset the Smith trade and give us a no 2 this year in a deep draft...

[OldSchool]

That's why I wish we would have ignored the value chart and pushed for a trade down.

Lets say we let ourselves get low balled. For the sake of argument let's say we swapped the no 1 for the no 24 and all we got in return was a no 2 last year and no 2 this year.

I would have taken that in a heartbeat. That would offset the Smith trade and give us a no 2 this year in a deep draft...

To be honest, I would be completely fine with giving up our 1st pick next year for a low 2nd this year. I fully expect us to make the play-offs again.

A 2nd this year will be better than having a late 1st next year, that's how deep this draft is.

[Rausch]

To be honest, I would be completely fine with giving up our 1st pick next year for a low 2nd this year. I fully expect us to make the play-offs again.

I don't see how we finish better than 9-7 after playing 8 playoff teams...

A 2nd this year will be better than having a late 1st next year, that's how deep this draft is.

I don't think we'll pick after 16 next year...

[OldSchool]

I don't see how we finish better than 9-7 after playing 8 playoff teams...



I don't think we'll pick after 16 next year...

I forgot who said it, may have been Mayock, but they said that there were at least 45 players in this year's draft who he would give a 1st round grade to. Think about that and also consider the fact that there was a record number of underclassmen who came out this year, meaning that the senior class next year has been sapped of a lot of talent.

[Rausch]

I forgot who said it, may have been Mayock, but they said that there were at least 45 players in this year's draft who he would give a 1st round grade to. Think about that and also consider the fact that there was a record number of underclassmen who came out this year, meaning that the senior class next year has been sapped of a lot of talent.

Doesn't have to but I'm sure this year will be much better than next year.

I still wouldn't trade the future for this draft. If anything we needed to trade down last year to build for the future...

[OldSchool]

Doesn't have to but I'm sure this year will be much better than next year.

I still wouldn't trade the future for this draft. If anything we needed to trade down last year to build for the future...

The thing is, this draft is the future and looks better than next year. You're going to be able to find players in this year's draft class from rounds 1 to 2 who will be better than those available next year in round 1 alone.

Players in round 3-4 of this draft class could possibly be better than those in round 2 of next years.

Essentially, the top 100 of this current draft class could be valued as highly as the top 50 next year. They weren't joking when they said this is the best draft class in over a decade.

[WhiteWhale]

If he's not here next year, i'ts because KC didn't want to keep him. I don't really know why that would be the case.

He's our best interior linemen. Our interior line really needs work, so I'd much rather he not be let go. Allen, Hudson, and Asomoah have all been pretty big disappointments.

[chiefzilla1501]

It has been said literally thousands of times in the last two months, and several times in this thread.

I think people are saying it's not even close to a doomsday scenario. Kash gets brought up because Hudson isn't good. It's not like the bar is that high. Same with Watkins. And these two play positions that we've said over and over and over again carry extremely low positional value.

If you truly believe in the draft, nobody should be freaking out about giving two low draft picks a shot or continuing to try to plug away with lower round draft picks or scrap heap guys. These are interior linemen, folks. Not elite pass rushers or quarterbacks.

[FringeNC]

For anyone current on the rules, will we get a compensatory draft pick if Schwartz signs elsewhere?

[The Franchise]

For anyone current on the rules, will we get a compensatory draft pick if Schwartz signs elsewhere?

It all depends on the contract he gets, his playing time and the FAs that we sign.

[-King-]

Direck isn't overreacting.

Lets breakdown the stupidity of letting Schwartz go.

First of all the offense made drastic improvements once Schwartz was inserted at guard. Its no coincidence that the teams highest scoring outputs were the games Fisher didnt play.

So now they are going to let their 2 best linemen go with a qb who's had injuries in the past and will presumably draft their replacements. Lets keep in mind this is the same failed strategy that got Andy fired and its not like Green Bay picked any o-linemen worth a shit in the first round either.

Schwartz has always been a productive player everywhere he's been. Not resigning him with 12 mil in capspace is fucking stupid.
:spock: Last year was the 2nd year in his career that he started more than 3 games.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him back, but let's not make him out to be something he's not.

[-King-]

The guy has started 26 games in the 6 years he's been in the league. In the one year he did start all 16 games, he gave up 6 sacks (http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/geoff-schwartz-267010/). Why are we acting like if we lose him he's irreplaceable?

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Suck for Luck

[Mr. Laz]

Direck isn't overreacting.

Lets breakdown the stupidity of letting Schwartz go.

First of all the offense made drastic improvements once Schwartz was inserted at guard. Its no coincidence that the teams highest scoring outputs were the games Fisher didnt play.

So now they are going to let their 2 best linemen go with a qb who's had injuries in the past and will presumably draft their replacements. Lets keep in mind this is the same failed strategy that got Andy fired and its not like Green Bay picked any o-linemen worth a shit in the first round either.

Schwartz has always been a productive player everywhere he's been. Not resigning him with 12 mil in capspace is ****ing stupid.
we also changed back to ZBS

Fisher also came back in to play and the offense kept playing well

we also continued to play well without Albert at all

everyone here wants to keep Schwartz but it doesn't mean that we should overpay to get him to stay.

[FringeNC]

we also changed back to ZBS

Fisher also came back in to play and the offense kept playing well

we also continued to play well without Albert at all

everyone here wants to keep Schwartz but it doesn't mean that we should overpay to get him to stay.

Yeah, I thought re-signing Schwartz would be a priority for the new regime, but hell, he didn't even play until there were injuries. I'm not going to panic if Reid and Dorsey don't think he's a key guy.

[RealSNR]

The guy has started 26 games in the 6 years he's been in the league. In the one year he did start all 16 games, he gave up 6 sacks (http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/geoff-schwartz-267010/). Why are we acting like if we lose him he's irreplaceable?

My thing about keeping him is so we stop this rotating door of offensive line bodies. For once I'd like to see us keep the same starting offensive line from one year to the next. I'd also like to see all the guys not be rookies or broke dick veterans.

I'm also sick and fucking tired of pissing away draft picks on the offensive line.

The offensive line is one area where I hope we spend money to keep guys together and build it up to be a strong unit. If Schwartz goes and Asamoah goes (who wasn't all that valuable anyway) we've got Rishaw fucking Johnson on the roster who would take the starting spot.

We could go out and get a free agent guy, but why spend money on him but not Schwartz, who has already played for us and is familiar with the team?

People always bitch about the lack of chemistry on the offensive line, and they seem to be shocked every year that they don't play well. Yet in the offseason there's all this championing for replacing dudes as much as possible and not spending money on (what they claim to be important) positions like LT.

[saphojunkie]

The guy has started 26 games in the 6 years he's been in the league. In the one year he did start all 16 games, he gave up 6 sacks (http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/geoff-schwartz-267010/). Why are we acting like if we lose him he's irreplaceable?

He does post game interviews!

[planetdoc]

everyone here wants to keep Schwartz but it doesn't mean that we should overpay to get him to stay.

completely agree. Overpaying is what got the chiefs saddled with contracts like Bowe and Flowers, and to a lesser extent Hali (whose contract was backloaded).

Teams that are consistently successful are those that develop talent and not overpay in free agency.

[RealSNR]

completely agree. Overpaying is what got the chiefs saddled with contracts like Bowe and Flowers, and to a lesser extent Hali (whose contract was backloaded).

Teams that are consistently successful are those that develop talent and not overpay in free agency.

Kind of hard to do that when just beginning Year 2 of that plan.

And I'm not even defending Scott Pioli, but what in the blue fuck was HE supposed to do when Charles, Flowers, DJ, and Hali had their contracts up? Those guys WERE the team at the time, and the Chiefs were still young and relatively talent-depleted from the franchise-reset back in 2007. 2008 was a great draft, 2009 sucked, and he had ONE rookie class coming in. Pioli basically had the option of re-signing everybody or starting over again with more 2-14 shit. As it turns out that's what he did anyway, but that's beside the point.

It's cool and awesome to say, "Draft and develop your own guys and don't overpay in free agency" but it's a lot more complicated than that. What you see good teams do IN ADDITION to seemingly constantly having a supply of backups that come in at a moment's notice and play like the starters never left is the guys they keep are "glue" guys. They make smart free agent decisions, yes, but when they get a player who is a fulcrum to the balance of a particular position, they keep him on board longterm.

Maybe Schwartz is that guy. Maybe he isn't. This team has had guard problems ever since Will Shields retired, and the really sucky part is we had a solution on our roster at the time in Wade Smith. His contract was up, and we let him walk with no questions asked. Maybe he wanted more money than was offered. Wouldn't you rather have thrown a few extra million at him to keep him here longterm instead of suffering this turnstile bullshit of Adrian Jones, Jon Asamoah, Ryan Lilja, and Jeff Allen? If you could invest simple free agent dollars into a longterm solution and not had to worry about burning all those draft picks, wouldn't that be so much better?

Again, I'm not saying Geoff Schwartz is Wade Smith. But the circumstances are the same, and he definitely showed great chemistry towards the end of the season as a starter. Personally, I think free agent $$$ are way cheaper than the possible alternative solution.

[Direckshun]

You're forgetting Nduku Ikewugu or whatever it was. LMAO

[-King-]

My thing about keeping him is so we stop this rotating door of offensive line bodies. For once I'd like to see us keep the same starting offensive line from one year to the next. I'd also like to see all the guys not be rookies or broke dick veterans.

I'm also sick and fucking tired of pissing away draft picks on the offensive line.

The offensive line is one area where I hope we spend money to keep guys together and build it up to be a strong unit. If Schwartz goes and Asamoah goes (who wasn't all that valuable anyway) we've got Rishaw fucking Johnson on the roster who would take the starting spot.

We could go out and get a free agent guy, but why spend money on him but not Schwartz, who has already played for us and is familiar with the team?

People always bitch about the lack of chemistry on the offensive line, and they seem to be shocked every year that they don't play well. Yet in the offseason there's all this championing for replacing dudes as much as possible and not spending money on (what they claim to be important) positions like LT.

I agree. But I recognize that for the most part, Schwartz is JAG in the NFL. We forget that Asamoah played really well in 2012 when we played ZBS. He only allowed 2 sacks that whole season. If we started the season with the same line scheme we ended with, most likely he would have remained the starter and we would have never heard of Schwartz.
Posted via Mobile Device

[booger]

won't happen but either Roger Saffold or Michael Oher would make a kick ass Guard

[Iowanian]

My initial reaction is born from the scars on my soul from the previous administrations.


Dorsey earned enough respect last year in his signings that I'm going to trust their judgement. If he goes, there is a reason. FA hasn't even really gotten a good start to rumors let alone signings.

Let this man work his mojo. I'll give them until about September to start questioning player signing judgement.

[htismaqe]

We forget that Asamoah played really well in 2012 when we played ZBS. He only allowed 2 sacks that whole season.

Not a popular opinion around here but I absolutely agree.

[booger]

I'd say Asamoah is on the first plane to Atlanta as soon as possible with Pioli there and their obvious OL needs

[BossChief]

For anyone current on the rules, will we get a compensatory draft pick if Schwartz signs elsewhere?

Comp picks are awarded to teams that lost more "qualifying free agents" than they signed over the course of each offseason.

A "qualifying free agent" is a player that was on your roster the entire year and entered free agency due to his contract expiring.

So if we lose

Albert
Jackson
Abdullah
Schwartz
Asamoah
McCluster
Demps
Lewis

To free agency and sign no "qualifying free agents" to replace them with, we would get a comp pick for each of them.

The comp picks range from rounds 3-7 and the things that impact the quality of the comp pick awarded the most are playing time and contract amount.

[Titty Meat]

The Chiefs aren't going to go into the season with Rashaw Johnson and the often injured Eric Fisher as the starters. Dorsey better sign or draft a right guard who can also play tackle.

The nice thing about Schwartz is he's a guy who takes up 1 roster spot but can play 2 positions.

[007]

There's little question Winston was the alpha male on that OL when he was here.

Just a huge vacuum of guys willing to step up and be the man.

Doesn't help that we brought in a very low key, laissez faire QB.

thickening

[chiefzilla1501]

The Chiefs aren't going to go into the season with Rashaw Johnson and the often injured Eric Fisher as the starters. Dorsey better sign or draft a right guard who can also play tackle.

The nice thing about Schwartz is he's a guy who takes up 1 roster spot but can play 2 positions.

We have plenty of options. You can easily bump Hudson, Allen, Rokevius Watkins, Rishaw Johnson. Hudson and Kush compete for Center. Now we just need depth at Tackle.

We can get both Guard and Tackle depth through the draft, the scrap pile, and cheap free agent pickups. To SNR's point... you don't have to use your first two rounds to get that either.

[J Diddy]

Comp picks are awarded to teams that lost more "qualifying free agents" than they signed over the course of each offseason.

A "qualifying free agent" is a player that was on your roster the entire year and entered free agency due to his contract expiring.

So if we lose

Albert
Jackson
Abdullah
Schwartz
Asamoah
McCluster
Demps
Lewis

To free agency and sign no "qualifying free agents" to replace them with, we would get a comp pick for each of them.

The comp picks range from rounds 3-7 and the things that impact the quality of the comp pick awarded the most are playing time and contract amount.

Isn't there a maximum of four awarded?

[htismaqe]

We have plenty of options. You can easily bump Hudson, Allen, Rokevius Watkins, Rishaw Johnson. Hudson and Kush compete for Center. Now we just need depth at Tackle.

We can get both Guard and Tackle depth through the draft, the scrap pile, and cheap free agent pickups. To SNR's point... you don't have to use your first two rounds to get that either.

You don't have to.

But they probably will.

[chiefzilla1501]

You don't have to.

But they probably will.

If we truly believe what we've been saying for years that the team needs to build through the draft, then we shouldn't be panicking about a Guard leaving the team. I would rather put our money on playmakers.

[htismaqe]

If we truly believe what we've been saying for years that the team needs to build through the draft, then we shouldn't be panicking about a Guard leaving the team. I would rather put our money on playmakers.

I'd rather put everything on playmakers.

I'm sick and fucking tired of drafting linemen in the 1st round.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'd rather put everything on playmakers.

I'm sick and ****ing tired of drafting linemen in the 1st round.

I would like to see us use a lot of late round picks and undrafted picks on positions like linemen. We should hopefully get to the point where every year, we have a young option to replace an expensive one. And you don't need big dollars or high draft picks to find good linemen.

I'm surprised at how many people on this thread are panicking about losing Schwartz. If people are so gung ho about not drafting a Guard in the first round, then they shouldn't hold the position in such high regard that we'd panic over losing one.

[Jimmya]

I'm at that point too. Last year's pick really bothered me.

[htismaqe]

I would like to see us use a lot of late round picks and undrafted picks on positions like linemen. We should hopefully get to the point where every year, we have a young option to replace an expensive one. And you don't need big dollars or high draft picks to find good linemen.

I agree.

I'm surprised at how many people on this thread are panicking about losing Schwartz. If people are so gung ho about not drafting a Guard in the first round, then they shouldn't hold the position in such high regard that we'd panic over losing one.

It's a numbers game. With both Schwartz and Asamoah as free agents, they're going to have to pick some players up somewhere. It opens up the very real possibility that they'll draft one early. After last year, that's just very hard for some of us to stomach.

[chiefzilla1501]

I agree.



It's a numbers game. With both Schwartz and Asamoah as free agents, they're going to have to pick some players up somewhere. It opens up the very real possibility that they'll draft one early. After last year, that's just very hard for some of us to stomach.

Yeah, that concerns me too, given Reid's history. But I feel pretty good that for interior linemen, this won't be too big a concern. I feel like with Stephenson and Fisher at Tackle, we probably wouldn't have to worry about a first round lineman pick. Unless we're talking about a pro bowl level interior lineman which I wouldn't be crazy about, but it at least means you upgrade the position for a lot cheaper.

[booger]

'Youngest Oline in the NFL'. How many times did Reid use that when the offense struggled. When Asomah and Schwartz started to rotate before GS took over full time when Asomoah was injured. Dorsey used the "youngest OLine in the NFL" line in his presser at the combine too. That line gets younger with Albert out the door. I expect them to draft for depth on the OL but I just don't see an early pic on OL.

It's the same reason why when the offseason started and I assumed they would get Schwartz re-signed I wanted to see an upgrade for Allen at LG because I also assumed Fisher would slide to LT sooner rather than later and I would like to see a vet Guard next to him. To balance things out.

And remember a big reason why they like Schwartz is he is a big G that can play T. Reid has a history of plugging in those types especially his earlier years in Philly. It helps greatly on the game day roster with only 7 active. There's what, one source out there saying Schwartz may not resign? It's pretty early to think that's a done deal compared to Albert leaving which looks much more like a far gone conclusion.

I hope they target guys like Ebon Britton G/T (played for Heck in J'ville)
Jason Spitz C/G who has GB Sea and J'ville connections in KC. Jon Gruden favorite Jeremy Trueblood G/RT. Guys like that for bargain signings. Competition to where if the Roc Watkins and Rishaw Johnsons beat them out they will be better because of the competition anyway.

Austin Howard, Michael Oher, and Roger Saffold all have a good market to get starting OT jobs with loads of cash but I would love to see KC throw some cash at one of them to come in and play G if they are willing which the only advantage edge there in recruiting them is to play for an up and coming team in KC and Reid. Money talks there. I just think Reid would like his own Mike Iupati type of G. Schwartz is still probably the cheapest option in that regard.

[Bowser]

I'd rather put everything on playmakers.

I'm sick and fucking tired of drafting linemen in the 1st round.

This just can't be quoted enough.

[RealSNR]

If we truly believe what we've been saying for years that the team needs to build through the draft, then we shouldn't be panicking about a Guard leaving the team. I would rather put our money on playmakers.

We will. Giving Schwartz what he wants for a contract isn't going to break the bank or prevent us from re-signing Berry, Houston, or Smith.

We can have a rotation of brilliant playmakers that we've always wanted if we keep drafting them. But we can't keep drafting them if we're wasting picks on the fucking offensive line.

The offensive line is THE position to throw money at. The players are cheaper, and success is often based on chemistry and scheme. Once you find the right combination, it's not a good idea to be switching pieces in and out. It's about time that we had a starting offensive line that didn't have one or more first-year starters or rookies on it. It's also about time that we didn't have a starting offensive line with brokedick veterans on it like Lilja and Weigmann.

That's why we should re-sign Schwartz. And STOP FUCKING DRAFTING OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

[The Franchise]

We will. Giving Schwartz what he wants for a contract isn't going to break the bank or prevent us from re-signing Berry, Houston, or Smith.

We can have a rotation of brilliant playmakers that we've always wanted if we keep drafting them. But we can't keep drafting them if we're wasting picks on the fucking offensive line.

The offensive line is THE position to throw money at. The players are cheaper, and success is often based on chemistry and scheme. Once you find the right combination, it's not a good idea to be switching pieces in and out. It's about time that we had a starting offensive line that didn't have one or more first-year starters or rookies on it. It's also about time that we didn't have a starting offensive line with brokedick veterans on it like Lilja and Weigmann.

That's why we should re-sign Schwartz. And STOP FUCKING DRAFTING OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

That and offensive linemen tend to play for a lot longer than skill positions. A 30 year old OG is going to be just fine....where as a 30 year old WR/TE/RB is going to start declining.

[Dave Lane]

What are the top 10-15 contracts for guards? Numbers-wise? I'm not expecting us to give him Levitre money, but I'd be willing to shell some dough out to keep Schwartz here long-term.

Better than fucking away more draft picks in the first 3 rounds at the fucking offensive line.

Moar OL

http://cdn2.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/CHIEFS-FANS.gif

[The Franchise]

Top 10 OG Cap Hits.

Mankins - $10m
Snee - $8.5m
Blalock - $7.6m
Yanda - $7.45m
Colledge - $7.25m
Evans - $6.74m
Joseph - $6m
Nwaneri - $5.8m
Sitton - $5.5m
Incognito - $4.97m

[BossChief]

I bet Incognito could be had for a bargain.

[RealSNR]

There you fucking have it.

The Patriots (the kings of Jewing their own players) are paying out the ass for a guard who's been on the team for years.

Acquire your offensive line. Pay them. Quit wasting draft stock on the position. That's how you do it, folks.

[-King-]

What are the top 10-15 contracts for guards? Numbers-wise? I'm not expecting us to give him Levitre money, but I'd be willing to shell some dough out to keep Schwartz here long-term.

Better than fucking away more draft picks in the first 3 rounds at the fucking offensive line.


You want to sign a guy to a long term deal after he only started 7 games here and 26 in 6 years?

I understand not wanting to draft one in the first 3 rounds, but there are plenty of Geoff Schwartz's in the last 4 rounds. Some even better. And they'll be even cheaper than Schwartz.

[RealSNR]

You want to sign a guy to a long term deal after he only started 7 games here and 26 in 6 years?

I understand not wanting to draft one in the first 3 rounds, but there are plenty of Geoff Schwartz's in the last 4 rounds. Some even better.

Then are we letting Asamoah walk?

If both of those guys leave, are we starting a rookie? Or are we bringing in a free agent?

The free agent will be just as pricey.

[-King-]

Then are we letting Asamoah walk?

If both of those guys leave, are we starting a rookie? Or are we bringing in a free agent?

The free agent will be just as pricey.

I wouldn't mind any of the above honestly. That's why I'm not bent out of shape about it. There's little if any difference in Asomoah, Schwartz, or a rookie except that Schwartz has pretty much maxed out his ceiling.

[RealSNR]

I do not want to start a rookie. Jeff Allen still plays like one. We don't need another.

Yeah, it's great if you find a Larry Warford staring at you in the 5th round. Good luck finding one, though. Otherwise there we are pissing away our 1st or 3rd on another guard.

[OldSchool]

There you ****ing have it.

The Patriots (the kings of Jewing their own players) are paying out the ass for a guard who's been on the team for years.

Acquire your offensive line. Pay them. Quit wasting draft stock on the position. That's how you do it, folks.

Parriots drafted Logan Makins in the 1st round.:thumb: They also almost never spend a 1st on a WR.

[mcaj22]

I bet Incognito could be had for a bargain.

Seriously. I'd take this over drafting a lineman in the first round. Hell what's Andy Reid's old ass Danny Watkins up to, can he be had cheap? Any cheap bargains would be worth it at this point just to have competition.

[Rausch]

Seriously. I'd take this over drafting a lineman in the first round. Hell what's Andy Reid's old ass Danny Watkins up to, can he be had cheap? Any cheap bargains would be worth it at this point just to have competition.

Some idiot team will do this and regret it...

[RealSNR]

Seriously. I'd take this over drafting a lineman in the first round. Hell what's Andy Reid's old ass Danny Watkins up to, can he be had cheap? Any cheap bargains would be worth it at this point just to have competition.

Danny Watkins got washed out last offseason. Because he sucks. Nobody wanted him.

[mcaj22]

Danny Watkins got washed out last offseason. Because he sucks. Nobody wanted him.

i'd rather kick the tires on some sucky players cheap then watch our 23 overall pick go to some guard/tackle out of West Tennessee Eastern Bermuda Triangle University.

[Rausch]

i'd rather kick the tires on some sucky players cheap then watch our 23 overall pick go to some guard/tackle out of West Tennessee Eastern Bermuda Triangle University.

They're both stupid options.

I'd prefer to sign as many good players as we can...

[OldSchool]

Zack Martin will be, at worst, a solid OT and has the physical skillset and potential to be an All-Pro OG in this league. The hit rate on 1st round offensive linemen is better than the hit rate on 1st round WRs.

Reid's offense doesn't need top flight WRs, it just needs solid players who are quick, fast, intelligent, sure handed, and most importantly guys who will run good routes. This draft is loaded with players like that in the 2nd-4th rounds.

[-King-]

I do not want to start a rookie. Jeff Allen still plays like one. We don't need another. And what makes you think that Schwartz won't revert back playing like the backup that he's been his whole career? He's honestly not much better than a rookie. Otherwise, he wouldn't have only 2 seasons with more than 3 games started in his career.

Yeah, it's great if you find a Larry Warford staring at you in the 5th round. Good luck finding one, though. Otherwise there we are pissing away our 1st or 3rd on another guard.

Why is that? Since when are guards a hard position to find late in the draft?

[mcaj22]

They're both stupid options.

I'd prefer to sign as many good players as we can...

well yeah but what's your interpretation of "good player" then? I mean you could argue that Ritchie Icognito the player is no worse than the Fasanos, Schwartz, Avery types we signed last year.

Geoff Schwartz was a cheap low cost journeyman last year who played his way into a nice contract. He wasn't necessarily "good" in the FA market last year. We need to find those guys again, guys who have been bouncing around the league kind of whatever that can help the team and dont affect the cap much. The players that need a second chance in the league to prove themselves.

[OldSchool]

And what makes you think that Schwartz won't revert back playing like the backup that he's been his whole career? He's honestly not much better than a rookie. Otherwise, he wouldn't have only 2 seasons with more than 3 games started in his career.



Why is that? Since when are guards a hard position to find late in the draft?

They only used to be "not hard to find" in the later rounds when they weren't valued as highly as they are now. Teams are finally getting smart and building through the trenches so OL players are getting drafted higher than in the past. It's just like how the value of TEs has become inflated in more recent history.

[OldSchool]

well yeah but what's your interpretation of "good player" then? I mean you could argue that Ritchie Icognito the player is no worse than the Fasanos, Schwartz, Avery types we signed last year.

Geoff Schwartz was a cheap low cost journeyman last year who played his way into a nice contract. He wasn't necessarily "good" in the FA market last year. We need to find those guys again, guys who have been bouncing around the league kind of whatever that can help the team and dont affect the cap much. The players that need a second chance in the league to prove themselves.

And how easy do you think that is? Every year there is a crapton of OL men who get drafted late and maybe 1 out of every 15-20 of them turns out to be good enough to start. It's never easy to find good players, otherwise every team would have an All-Pro level player at every position. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of the best players in the league are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

[mcaj22]

And how easy do you think that is? Every year there is a crapton of OL men who get drafted late and maybe 1 out of every 15-20 of them turns out to be good enough to start. It's never easy to find good players, otherwise every team would have an All-Pro level player at every position. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of the best players in the league are former 1st or 2nd round picks.

if my options are

1)
Olineman first round pick
Scrap heap FA skill players to round out the roster

or

2)
skill player first round pick
Scrap heap FA olineman journeyman to round the roster

For this current team's make up, I'd go with option 2. Obviously the dream scenario is Draft BPA and Sign a Good FA but I am not sure the cap will give us that option.

[Chief Roundup]

You want to sign a guy to a long term deal after he only started 7 games here and 26 in 6 years?

I understand not wanting to draft one in the first 3 rounds, but there are plenty of Geoff Schwartz's in the last 4 rounds. Some even better. And they'll be even cheaper than Schwartz.

I am not sure of the quality of these guards you are talking about. Asamoah and Allen have not turned out to be so great.
But lets look at the draft last year with keeping in mind that it was not considered a great or deep year.
There was 3 OG taken in the first round: 7th, 10th, and 20th pick overall. There were 4 other OGs taken in the 3rd round.

[RealSNR]

And what makes you think that Schwartz won't revert back playing like the backup that he's been his whole career? He's honestly not much better than a rookie. Otherwise, he wouldn't have only 2 seasons with more than 3 games started in his career.



Why is that? Since when are guards a hard position to find late in the draft?

Guards aren't difficult to find late in the draft, but that doesn't mean every guard you draft is gold.

Hell, just look at the ones the Chiefs have taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Even if there's great potential in them, none of them have ever been ready to start Week 1.

It's far more likely that our late round guard or Rishaw Johnson isn't ready and sucks. Far more than it is that Geoff Schwartz, a multi-year veteran who has played well for two different teams, can't handle a starting spot that he already took over last year adequately.

Schwartz isn't ideal. I agree. He's also not Will Shields. I know that, too. But all he costs is money. And not that much. We're not giving him Andy Levitre or Carl Nicks money.

In my opinion, that's the option that provides the most security and the best player for the cheapest price.

[RealSNR]

Who's the last guard the Chiefs drafted who turned out to be not a turd?

Will Shields.

Guards are easier to find than other positions in the late rounds, but that doesn't mean you should get rid of both RGs and replace them with unproven UDFAs from last year or a late round pick. That's not a smart decision.

[OldSchool]

if my options are

1)
Olineman first round pick
Scrap heap FA skill players to round out the roster

or

2)
skill player first round pick
Scrap heap FA olineman journeyman to round the roster

For this current team's make up, I'd go with option 2. Obviously the dream scenario is Draft BPA and Sign a Good FA but I am not sure the cap will give us that option. You do realize that we didn't have a good offense until our OL picked up their play right? If a 1st round OL player this year could improve our OL play over last year from day 1, it stands to reason that our offense, even if we just stay status quo at WR and TE, will continue to perform at a high rate on a more consistent basis.

Plus, I don't know how many times we have to say it, but there are a bunch of WRs who can be productive in this offense that will be available in the 2nd-4th rounds and maybe even later.

[RealSNR]

You do realize that we didn't have a good offense until our OL picked up their play right? If a 1st round OL player this year could improve our OL play over last year from day 1, it stands to reason that our offense, even if we just stay status quo at WR and TE, will continue to perform at a high rate on a more consistent basis.

Plus, I don't know how many times we have to say it, but there are a bunch of WRs who can be productive in this offense that will be available in the 2nd-4th rounds and maybe even later.

We saw that improved play with the guys who played like shit earlier in the year. Doesn't it stand to reason that we can get that quality play by keeping those players on the team or going after cheap veteran options?

[mcaj22]

You do realize that we didn't have a good offense until our OL picked up their play right? If a 1st round OL player this year could improve our OL play over last year from day 1, it stands to reason that our offense, even if we just stay status quo at WR and TE, will continue to perform at a high rate on a more consistent basis.

Plus, I don't know how many times we have to say it, but there are a bunch of WRs who can be productive in this offense that will be available in the 2nd-4th rounds and maybe even later.

the oline picked up their play because we swapped a 3rd round Guard for a 7th round FA scrap heap journeyman and a 1st overall RT for a 3rd round swing tackle.

So the argument actually goes AGAINST you.

then the last game of the season the undrafted and late round picks in Kush and the gang didn't really look any different, against the Chargers starters.

[-King-]

I am not sure of the quality of these guards you are talking about. Asamoah and Allen have not turned out to be so great.
But lets look at the draft last year with keeping in mind that it was not considered a great or deep year.
There was 3 OG taken in the first round: 7th, 10th, and 20th pick overall. There were 4 other OGs taken in the 3rd round.

Asamoah as of right now has had a better career than Schwartz, benching and all. In 2012 he allowed 2 sacks. In Schwartz's only year where he started all 16 games, he allowed 6.

I believe Asamoah was more a victim of the scheme we were trying to run early on in the season than him being bad. He was good in zone blocking which we ran more of at the end of the year. He likely would have been just as good if not better had we switched earlier.

[-King-]

Guards aren't difficult to find late in the draft, but that doesn't mean every guard you draft is gold.

Hell, just look at the ones the Chiefs have taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Even if there's great potential in them, none of them have ever been ready to start Week 1.

It's far more likely that our late round guard or Rishaw Johnson isn't ready and sucks. Far more than it is that Geoff Schwartz, a multi-year veteran who has played well for two different teams, can't handle a starting spot that he already took over last year adequately.

Not really.

He allowed 6 sacks in 2010 when he was a starter http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/geoff-schwartz-267010/

Other than that he's been a career backup. You think that's a coincidence?

[BigMeatballDave]

Who's the last guard the Chiefs drafted who turned out to be not a turd?

Will Shields.
.Brandon Albert :D

[ct]

Not really.

He allowed 6 sacks in 2010 when he was a starter http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/geoff-schwartz-267010/

Other than that he's been a career backup. You think that's a coincidence?

Seriously dude, don't link a site that literally has an out of business sign posted on the front page from 9 freakin months ago...

fail, seriously fail

:shake:

[-King-]

Seriously dude, don't link a site that literally has an out of business sign posted on the front page from 9 freakin months ago...

fail, seriously fail

:shake:

All their stats are provided by Stats.inc.

[The Franchise]

He allowed 6 sacks....when Jimmy Clausen was their starting QB.....as a rookie. JFC....burn him at the stake.

[OldSchool]

the oline picked up their play because we swapped a 3rd round Guard for a 7th round FA scrap heap journeyman and a 1st overall RT for a 3rd round swing tackle.

So the argument actually goes AGAINST you.

then the last game of the season the undrafted and late round picks in Kush and the gang didn't really look any different, against the Chargers starters.

Let me use another team as an example, Alex Smith's former team, the 49ers.

They are regarded as having one of the best OLs and best front 7s in the NFL. Let's look at where their players were drafted:

LT- Joe Staley- 1st round
LG- Mike Iupati- 1st round
RT- Anthony Davis- 1st round
C- Jonathan Goodwin- 5th round (FA already established as a good starter in the league)
RG- Alex Boone- UDFA (he was a 2nd round talent who fell out of the draft due to a well documented drinking problem so it's not like the 49ers magically discovered him)

3 1st round picks, an already established starting caliber Center, and a 2nd round talent who fell out of the draft due to off the field issues. Niners weren't taking a shot in the dark, they went and got their guys to solidify their OL. Only one you could make an argument for is Boone but he's hardly a surprising find talent-wise; he just couldn't care about his draft status enough to stop binge drinking in college.

Now lets look at their front 7.

RDE- Justin Smith-1st round well established League vet.
NT- Glenn Dorsey- 1st round established League Vet.
LDE- Ray McDonald- 3rd pick (another guy who fell in the draft due to injuries in college)
ROLB- Aldon Smith- 1st round
MLB- Patrick Willis- 1st round
MLB- Navorro Bowman- 3rd round
LOLB- Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round in a supplemental draft, signed as FA

So one of the most dominant offensive lines in the league and most dominant DLs in the league is filled with 1st-3rd round talents and established league vets? Who would have guessed?

[RealSNR]

For the record, I'm not against re-signing Asamoah if we're really going to stick with ZBS.

We have little information about Dorsey's intentions as far as any of our potential free agents are concerned. Only thing we've heard thus far from his mouth is that he's in talks with Albert's people (like that will ever happen) and now this rumor about Schwartz.

In the meantime, though, let's not rely on a rookie.

[booger]

For the record, I'm not against re-signing Asamoah if we're really going to stick with ZBS.

We have little information about Dorsey's intentions as far as any of our potential free agents are concerned. Only thing we've heard thus far from his mouth is that he's in talks with Albert's people (like that will ever happen) and now this rumor about Schwartz.

In the meantime, though, let's not rely on a rookie.

agree completely with all but especially bolded. Another 22-23 yr old is gonna make mistakes now matter how talented. This line doesn't need to get any younger

[Mr. Laz]

We have plenty of options. You can easily bump Hudson, Allen, Rokevius Watkins, Rishaw Johnson. Hudson and Kush compete for Center. Now we just need depth at Tackle.

We can get both Guard and Tackle depth through the draft, the scrap pile, and cheap free agent pickups. To SNR's point... you don't have to use your first two rounds to get that either.
We do have options.


If Kush wins the center job that would allow Hudson to compete for guard as well.

Some people believe that Allen should be a swing tackle.

[Mr. Laz]

agree completely with all but especially bolded. Another 22-23 yr old is gonna make mistakes now matter how talented. This line doesn't need to get any younger
Eric Fisher sucks

[chiefzilla1501]

We do have options.


If Kush wins the center job that would allow Hudson to compete for guard as well.

Some people believe that Allen should be a swing tackle.

That's the way I see it too. Allen, Rokevius Watkins, Hudson. I wouldn't be in a panic if they competed for 2 spots. All the while, groom some young guys to step in. But agree with SNR... no high picks.

If Schwartz is reasonably priced, great. I have a feeling some team will overpay him.

[htismaqe]

Some people believe that Allen should be a swing tackle.

He was in college. A pretty good one actually.

[booger]

Eric Fisher sucks

I wasn't talking about Fisher. I was talking about the few arguing that adding another High pic to an already really young OL is somehow a good idea

[booger]

If Kush were to win the C job, assuming he's ready which is a big assumption based on only the SD game, shift Hudson to LG where he thrived at FSU. Allen played both T spots as they where a strong/weak team who flipped their OL instead of a Right and left. Plus he's got enough arm length to play OT. I also wouldn't mind them dangling him for a pic but I doubt they could get one high enough to justify trading him.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Parriots drafted Logan Makins in the 1st round.:thumb: They also almost never spend a 1st on a WR.

Having Brady at qb it's more important to protect him than draft playmakers high. He can turn an average guy into a playmaker and he isn't mobile so you have to protect him. Different circumstances here. Almost completely the opposite.

[OldSchool]

Having Brady at qb it's more important to protect him than draft playmakers high. He can turn an average guy into a playmaker and he isn't mobile so you have to protect him. Different circumstances here. Almost completely the opposite.


Flip side, look at the Lions as an example of always drafting skills players high for years. Sure, they eventually got Megatron, but they still suck.

Look at the Falcons who completely ignore their OL last off-season, tell me what their record in 2013 was again? How did the Dolphins do without a good OL but good weapons on the outside? And the Giants?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Flip side, look at the Lions as an example of always drafting skills players high for years. Sure, they eventually got Megatron, but they still suck.

Look at the Falcons who completely ignore their OL last off-season, tell me what their record in 2013 was again? How did the Dolphins do without a good OL but good weapons on the outside?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I don't care about other teams I care what is best for the chiefs. Alex is much more mobile than Brady so he can get away with an average line. But Alex needs quality playmakers more than Brady does. And that is not a knock on Alex Brady is one of the best.

[J Diddy]

Eric Fisher sucks

Delusional sucks.

[Mr. Laz]

I wasn't talking about Fisher. I was talking about the few arguing that adding another High pic to an already really young OL is somehow a good idea
My point was that many people didn't give Fisher the benefit of 'young players are going to make mistakes regardless of talent'

It fit their agenda to declare that Fisher sucks ... many continue to do so tbh.

it was just funny hearing somebody talk about young guys and mistakes is all.

[booger]

My point was that many people didn't give Fisher the benefit of 'young players are going to make mistakes regardless of talent'

It fit their agenda to declare that Fisher sucks ... many continue to do so tbh.

it was just funny hearing somebody talk about young guys and mistakes is all.

ok got ya :thumb:

[Sorter]

For the record, I'm not against re-signing Asamoah if we're really going to stick with ZBS.

We have little information about Dorsey's intentions as far as any of our potential free agents are concerned. Only thing we've heard thus far from his mouth is that he's in talks with Albert's people (like that will ever happen) and now this rumor about Schwartz.

In the meantime, though, let's not rely on a rookie.

I would try to resign Jon.

[LoneWolf]

Flip side, look at the Lions as an example of always drafting skills players high for years. Sure, they eventually got Megatron, but they still suck.

Look at the Falcons who completely ignore their OL last off-season, tell me what their record in 2013 was again? How did the Dolphins do without a good OL but good weapons on the outside? And the Giants?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

The Lions suck because their QB is a turnover machine and their pass defense blows. The Falcons lost Julio Jones early in the season and Roddy White played injured for much of the season. Tannehill has yet to prove he is any good. Eli is immobile and has to have a stellar line to succeed.

KC's line is going to be fine. Fisher and Stephenson at tackle is above average and I'm confident Dorsey will find enough players to adequately fill the interior of the line.

[J Diddy]

I would try to resign Jon.

Jon was either here or there but never consistent. Frustrating at times.

[RealSNR]

We've got options, sure, but none of them are very secure, nor can you know the results until preseason play, when the draft and most of the quality veterans have been signed by other teams.

It would really be lovely if Rishaw Johnson and Eric Kush were legitimately the same players we saw against San Diego. There's just no way to tell, however, and if I'm banking on those guys in a year where the team is making a serious push for the division title and some noise in the playoffs, that's a bad bet.

Teams usually unearth special talent when it shows up because of injury or when they drastically outperform the starters in training camp. You don't often see legitimate playoff teams take 6th round centers and undrafted rookie guards from the previous season and just hand them a job because they showed a lot of promise on the scout team and in one game.

[OldSchool]

I don't care about other teams I care what is best for the chiefs. Alex is much more mobile than Brady so he can get away with an average line. But Alex needs quality playmakers more than Brady does. And that is not a knock on Alex Brady is one of the best.

So what if he's more mobile? You're saying it's ok to have poor OL play because Alex can escape the pressure a lot of he times. Sure, how did that work out for our offense early in the year? I recall a lot of bitching and moaning about Alex always dumping the ball off to his hot-read. Well yeah no shit, who could wait for a deep route or intermediate route to develop when you already have pressure in your face in less than 2 seconds on numberous occassions? It was also a new group of WRs for him and a new offense for all of them so he can't exactly chuck it up and trust the WR to be where he is supposed to be.

Alex is better at escaping pressure than most QBs but that doesn't mean that you just leave it up to him to always avoid the inevitable pressure that will come from having a bad OL. I thought you guys would have at least seen by now that, like every QB to have ever played the game of football, Alex Smith is at his best when he actually has time to work with.

He also doesn't need game breakers at WR, he just needs guys who can run consistent routes, get some separation, and not drop the damn ball when it hits them in the freaken hands. He doesn't need a Calvin Johnson/AJ Green/Josh Gordon/Julio Jones/Larry Fitzgerald that'll go up in tripple coverage and come down with the ball like Stafford does. Could he benefit from that type of WR? Sure, all QBs could use one.

But Alex Smith would be fine with a bunch of Doug Baldwins if you did one thing for him, give him time in the pocket.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Chiefs&amp;src=hash">#Chiefs</a> meet with guard <a href="https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz">@geoffschwartz</a>’s agent during combine, but the two sides may not agree on money: <a href="http://t.co/iqA8SBbumq">http://t.co/iqA8SBbumq</a></p>&mdash; Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/TerezPaylor/statuses/439575090011725824">March 1, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Chiefs meet with guard Geoff Schwartz’s agent during combine
February 28
BY TEREZ A. PAYLOR
The Kansas City Star

“Geoff Schwartz loved it in Kansas City and would love to come back in Kansas City,” Deryk Gilmore said. “It’s just that he wants to be wanted, and hopefully Kansas City wants him. He’s a starter and he wants to be paid like a starter.”

Despite starting only eight games last season, the 6-foot-6, 340-pound Schwartz posted a plus-18.6 Pro Football Focus grade, the highest any Chiefs offensive lineman, and was rated as the site’s top free-agent guard. He was playing on a one-year, $700,000 contract.

Gilmore refused to specify the terms he’s seeking, but similar players who hit the market at Schwartz’s position last offseason signed multi-year deals.

Andy Levitre, Pro Football Focus’ No. 2 free-agent guard in 2012 with a grade of plus-17.3, signed a multi-year deal with Tennessee that paid him a base salary of $2.5 million last season and $6.5 million this year.

The No. 4 guard, Louis Vasquez of Denver (plus-12.7), signed for base salaries of $2 million in 2013 and $3 million in 2014. The No. 5 guard, Donald Thomas (plus-11.2), signed with Indianapolis for base salaries of $2.5 million in 2013 and $3.5 million in 2014.

Those are hardly prohibitive salaries in today’s NFL, but as it stands, the Chiefs will need to free up cap room to be a player in free agency. The league has set the 2014 salary cap at $133 million, which should give the Chiefs roughly $9.62 million in cap space, according to salary cap expert Joel Corry.

However, the Chiefs must also fit upcoming draft picks under the cap — which will take roughly $5.5 million, according to Corry — and it remains to be seen if they’re willing to pay what it might take to retain Schwartz.

Schwartz, 28, just completed his sixth year. He took over as the Chiefs’ right guard in Week 12 because of an injury to Jon Asamoah, starting five of the next six games, only resting for the Week 17 game against San Diego. Schwartz showed his versatility in that game, however, as he played right tackle.

He played in 14 games total last season, including three at left guard, where he also made one start.

Free agency begins league-wide on March 11, but teams can negotiate with their own free agents until then.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/28/4856386/chiefs-show-interest-in-bringing.html#storylink=cpy

[O.city]

Can't keep everyone I guess.

But damn, some of these high contract guys we have better start playing a shit ton better.

[OldSchool]

Can't keep everyone I guess.

But damn, some of these high contract guys we have better start playing a shit ton better.

Definitely in the defense.

[beach tribe]

And how easy do you think that is? Every year there is a crapton of OL men who get drafted late and maybe 1 out of every 15-20 of them turns out to be good enough to start. It's never easy to find good players, otherwise every team would have an All-Pro level player at every position. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of the best players in the league are former 1st or 2nd round picks.
Gs are taken high in the draft less than any other position, and there is a reason for that.
Positional value is real, and only what teams consider to be elite talents at C and G are taken in the first round, and usually late in the first round.
You were way off when you said that G is a position that has risen in value as it has actually declined with the increase in demand for players such as TE, and safety in a league that is increasingly geared toward the passing game.
G may have lowest positional valuein the league above only FB and maybe 2 down (thumper) ILB

[Easy 6]

I don't care about other teams I care what is best for the chiefs. Alex is much more mobile than Brady so he can get away with an average line. But Alex needs quality playmakers more than Brady does. And that is not a knock on Alex Brady is one of the best.

Quite true, there sure as hell isn't some one size fits all best philosophy... what works best for Brady sure isn't the best thing for Smith.

[The Bad Guy]

If Schwartz wants more than 3 million a season, move on.

[ThaVirus]

The Lions suck because their QB is a turnover machine and their pass defense blows. The Falcons lost Julio Jones early in the season and Roddy White played injured for much of the season.Tannehill has yet to prove he is any good. Eli is immobile and has to have a stellar line to succeed.

KC's line is going to be fine. Fisher and Stephenson at tackle is above average and I'm confident Dorsey will find enough players to adequately fill the interior of the line.

He was the most sacked QB in the league last season, had a non existent run game, and hardly any weapons outside of Mike Wallace and Charles Clay. Can you name their second WR?

He carried that offense.

[mcaj22]

Can't keep everyone I guess.

But damn, some of these high contract guys we have better start playing a shit ton better.

well thats not gonna happen. most of them are about to hit 30 and the cliff is coming sooner than later.

[mcaj22]

He was the most sacked QB in the league last season, had a non existent run game, and hardly any weapons outside of Mike Wallace and Charles Clay. Can you name their second WR?

He carried that offense.

their 2nd WR had 1000 yards

hes not some noticeable drop off

[OldSchool]

He was the most sacked QB in the league last season, had a non existent run game, and hardly any weapons outside of Mike Wallace and Charles Clay. Can you name their second WR?

He carried that offense.

Brian Hartline> Donnie Avery

[ThaVirus]

their 2nd WR had 1000 yards

hes not some noticeable drop off

Damn, he did crack 1,000 yards (more than Wallace, FTR). Hartline is good but nothing special; I suspect if we had him we'd be looking to upgrade just like we are now.

The point is, Tannehill didn't have much to work with. Wallace and Hartline are serviceable to "pretty good" on certain days, but are either of them top 15? Top 20? Top 30?

People bitch about Alex Smith not having enough weapons but he had a decent offensive line and the most productive running back in the league helping him. Tannehill didn't have much and the fact that Hartline broke 1,000 yards is actually more of a testament to Ryan than it is himself, I think.

The kid did a pretty good job with what he was given.

[ThaVirus]

I should point out that I really, really don't like Mike Wallace.

[OldSchool]

As for all of those people advocating going with journeymen OL players and low round picks. You really trust this line:

Stephenson/Fisher - Allen - Hudson - (journeyman/Watkins/Johnson/etc) - Fisher/Stephenson

To hold up against:

SF:

A. Smith - J. Smith - McDonald - Brooks

Seattle:

Irvin/Clemons/Avril - Mebane - McDaniels - Bennett

Arizona: (With Washington blitzing in the middle)

Acho - Campbell - Williams - Docket - Okafor

St. Louis:

Quinn - Brockers - Langford - Long


And I haven't even mentioned the Jets and their tremendous front 7 yet. You've gotta be kidding me if you think that we'll be ok with what's currently on the roster or with just getting a late round player to start or even any of our depth guys. If we don't have good players in place on the OL, don't expect us to get out of their with Alex Smith's health intact.

[Discuss Thrower]

As for all of those people advocating going with journeymen OL players and low round picks. You really trust this line:

Stephenson/Fisher - Allen - Hudson - (journeyman/Watkins/Johnson/etc) - Fisher/Stephenson

To hold up against:

SF:

A. Smith - J. Smith - McDonald - Brooks

Seattle:

Irvin/Clemons/Avril - Mebane - McDaniels - Bennett

Arizona: (With Washington blitzing in the middle)

Acho - Campbell - Williams - Docket - Okafor

St. Louis:

Quinn - Brockers - Langford - Long


And I haven't even mentioned the Jets and their tremendous front 7 yet. You've gotta be kidding me if you think that we'll be ok with what's currently on the roster or with just getting a late round player to start or even any of our depth guys. If we don't have good players in place on the OL, don't expect us to get out of their with Alex Smith's health intact.

Ssssh! Realism isn't welcomed on this board. The Chiefs will be just fine with a bench warmer that looked "just fine" against an unprepared San Diego team last December.

[Easy 6]

He was the most sacked QB in the league last season, had a non existent run game, and hardly any weapons outside of Mike Wallace and Charles Clay. Can you name their second WR?

He carried that offense.

Tannehill is a definite sleeper, considering the internal tumult of last year I'd say he did a very admirable job of keeping things together... just because he wasnt an INSTANT superstar doesn't mean he wont be great.

In many ways, he's a lot like Alex Smith IMO... very efficient with whats given to him talentwise and able to keep the wolves at bay in the lockerroom through steady leadership.

Not an instant eye catcher, but one of those guys who can really grow on you.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Ssssh! Realism isn't welcomed on this board. The Chiefs will be just fine with a bench warmer that looked "just fine" against an unprepared San Diego team last December.

Or you could do the same thing with our WR's and the secondaries they will be facing.

[OldSchool]

Or you could do the same thing with our WR's and the secondaries they will be facing.

You can scheme to beat coverage, but all of that won't mean a damn thing if your QB is running for his life in less than 2 seconds. The most important thing has always been time in the pocket and having a clean pocket to work with.

Manning had all of the receiving talent he could ask for against the Seahawks, but that didn't matter because the Seahawks destroyed his pocket and took him out of his comfort zone.

[ThaVirus]

Tannehill is a definite sleeper, considering the internal tumult of last year I'd say he did a very admirable job of keeping things together... just because he wasnt an INSTANT superstar doesn't mean he wont be great.

In many ways, he's a lot like Alex Smith IMO... very efficient with whats given to him talentwise and able to keep the wolves at bay in the lockerroom through steady leadership.

Not an instant eye catcher, but one of those guys who can really grow on you.

I agree.

[beach tribe]

I agree.

The guy had horrible, Horrible o line play to boot.

I think he will be fine.

[chiefzilla1501]

As for all of those people advocating going with journeymen OL players and low round picks. You really trust this line:

Stephenson/Fisher - Allen - Hudson - (journeyman/Watkins/Johnson/etc) - Fisher/Stephenson

To hold up against:

SF:

A. Smith - J. Smith - McDonald - Brooks

Seattle:

Irvin/Clemons/Avril - Mebane - McDaniels - Bennett

Arizona: (With Washington blitzing in the middle)

Acho - Campbell - Williams - Docket - Okafor

St. Louis:

Quinn - Brockers - Langford - Long


And I haven't even mentioned the Jets and their tremendous front 7 yet. You've gotta be kidding me if you think that we'll be ok with what's currently on the roster or with just getting a late round player to start or even any of our depth guys. If we don't have good players in place on the OL, don't expect us to get out of their with Alex Smith's health intact.

How many Guards do you see go as top 20 picks?

Kush and Hudson compete for Center. Hudson, Allen, Watkins compete for Guard. And plenty of opportunities in the draft, free agency, and scrap cuts to find more competition.

No, I'm not worried. I worry more about finding playmakers than I am a fucking Guard.

[OldSchool]

How many Guards do you see go as top 20 picks?

Kush and Hudson compete for Center. Hudson, Allen, Watkins compete for Guard. And plenty of opportunities in the draft, free agency, and scrap cuts to find more competition.

No, I'm not worried. I worry more about finding playmakers than I am a ****ing Guard.

Yeah, and how did those "playmakers" work out for Manning in the Superbowl?

How did Randy Moss work out for Tom Brady against the Giants?

How did that work out for Drew Brees and the High Flying Saints against the dominant front 7s that they faced?

How has that worked out for Stafford with Calvin Johnson?

Aaron Rodgers and his dynamic Packers?

Yeah, you don't need a dominant OL to succeed at all in this league. Just playmakers.

If you understood football, you would know that the game is won and lost in the trenches.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

We need some stability on our o-line. A leader we can count on to keep an even keel under pressure. A quiet leader who lets his play do the talking. Somebody like this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW9C4qi5Y80

[RippedmyFlesh]

Yeah, you don't need a dominant OL to succeed at all in this league. Just playmakers.

If you understood football, you would know that the game is won and lost in the trenches.

If you don't think a great qb doesn't make his line better I just don't know what to say. You keep saying more time. I say separation so you don't need as much time because we know Alex can be conservative. Seattle has the best secondary in football so that is why they could stop them. The pocket broke down because guys weren't open in 2 seconds like they had been all year for them.

[OldSchool]

If you don't think a great qb doesn't make his line better I just don't know what to say. You keep saying more time. I say separation so you don't need as much time because we know Alex can be conservative. Seattle has the best secondary in football so that is why they could stop them. The pocket broke down because guys weren't open in 2 seconds like they had been all year for them.

Again, Tom Brady vs the Giants. Everyone agrees that he is an Elite QB, correct?

Giants secondary was nowhere near dominant in those Superbowl games. Brady had elite talents to work with on the perimeter. Yet the Patriots still couldn't win because they got dominated in the trenches.

There is a limit to how much better a QB can make his OL look. There are only so many times that Smith can escape from a defender in the backfield and make plays with his legs or buy time by moving the pocket. There are ways to scheme players open, but the only way to help against a pass rush is to keep extra guys in, which means less targets and weapons for Smith to work with.

A dominant OL makes everything better because it helps in both the run and pass game. If you don't have a good OL, Charles becomes less of a threat. If Charles is less of a threat, teams can drop more guys into coverage and shut our offense down. A dominant OL gives our WRs time to get open no matter how average they may be and it keeps our QB healthy.

The only time that you should draft a WR in the first is if:

A) You are set at OL with at least solid starters across the board.

B) You are set in your front 7 defensively.

C) a true potential #1 WR falls to you that you just can't pass on.

It's like you guys are all Matt Millens in here, lol.

[RippedmyFlesh]

C) a true potential #1 WR falls to you that you just can't pass on.

It's like you guys are all Matt Millens in here, lol.

With this draft at wr and safe to say prob 3 qb's picked in the 1st round this year that could very well happen. And he would be cheap for a bit while Bowe is expensive. If you add a wr of Bowe quality or better that will help Alex more than a fricking guard.

[RealSNR]

Yeah, and how did those "playmakers" work out for Manning in the Superbowl?

How did Randy Moss work out for Tom Brady against the Giants?

How did that work out for Drew Brees and the High Flying Saints against the dominant front 7s that they faced?

How has that worked out for Stafford with Calvin Johnson?

Aaron Rodgers and his dynamic Packers?

Yeah, you don't need a dominant OL to succeed at all in this league. Just playmakers.

If you understood football, you would know that the game is won and lost in the trenches.
You're conflating high picks with success. More lower round picks become excellent starters on the offensive line than at any other position. Let's not forget that there's still a bust rate to consider when it comes to offensive line, and Andy Reid has taken his team there on more than one occasion. Or have you already forgotten the moldy diarrhea-crusted abortion that was Eric Fisher's rookie season? You know, the 1.1 offensive line pick that nearly ended Alex Smith's career?

An offensive line is partly finding good players. That's an element, yes. But there's an additional element, and that's chemistry. It's crucial for the line to play as a unit more than any other position group.

And constantly fucking around, drafting offensive line high to replace previous high pick offensive linemen out on their 2nd contracts is stupid. In other words, once you have a guy who plays well, keep him.

This offensive line played well enough at the end of last season to be great. Albert can't be helped, but by keeping Stephenson and at least Asamoah or Schwartz, we'd be going a long way to keeping the chemistry together.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I just don't understand not keeping Schwartz.The line as a whole played better with him on the field. A rookie isn't going to be better next year but there are WR's out there easily better than anyone not named Bowe.