Keep fucking doubting Rishaw Johnson.

[htismaqe]

Speaking of not comprehending!

What is there to comprehend? You're a fucking lemming. We all get it.

[O.city]

Akeem Jordan?

[RunKC]

And LOL at Dunta Robinson. You expect a new GM to clean up all of Pioli's failures in one offseason?

Dunta was the best possible option at the time and we desperately needed a CB at that time.

[RunKC]

So Geoff Schwartz is a good signing when it supports your homerism but when they let him go, he's a scrub not worth the money?

ROFL

I was not happy that we let this guy go.

[lcarus]

Also I don't think they're thinking Alex smith is necessarily a band aid. I legitimately think they feel he can be the late season playoff Alex smith here for 5 years.

I think Alex Smith paired with Andy Reid is a great combination. If we can somehow manage to get better at TE and WR, this offense will be fun to watch.

[RunKC]

What is there to comprehend? You're a ****ing lemming. We all get it.

Try again. You're way off.

[O.city]

And LOL at Dunta Robinson. You expect a new GM to clean up all of Pioli's failures in one offseason?

Dunta was the best possible option at the time and we desperately needed a CB at that time.

Dude come on.

Just stop.

[O.city]

I don't expect a gm to clean up all previous failures, but I'd hope he wouldn't hop right in to another one.

[RunKC]

hitsmage..hating every new GM because the old one's failed.

[RunKC]

I don't expect a gm to clean up all previous failures, but I'd hope he wouldn't hop right in to another one.

why do you think Dunta is gone? Once Marcus Cooper proved himself Dunta was expendable.

[htismaqe]

And LOL at Dunta Robinson. You expect a new GM to clean up all of Pioli's failures in one offseason?

Dunta was the best possible option at the time and we desperately needed a CB at that time.

Seriously?

[O.city]

why do you think Dunta is gone? Once Marcus Cooper proved himself Dunta was expendable.

That's great, it's nice to see them admit a mistake and move on.

I'm guessing you don't think it was a mistake?

[RunKC]

Our brass thought this team could win now last year. They even said it before the season started. Did you not expect them to try to fill all the glaring holes they could with any possible resource available?

We needed a fucking CB. Do you know what QB's are in this division?

[htismaqe]

hitsmage..hating every new GM because the old one's failed.

Wrong again, homer.

First of all, I don't hate Dorsey. I don't agree with some of his moves, mostly because he hasn't shown any consistency in his approach.

I PRAISED the Dorsey and Reid hires when they came on board. I wasn't happy with the Alex Smith trade but when he went out and proved I was wrong about him, I was back on board.

Now they're trying to shovel us the "build through the draft" shit which is code for "now that we've hooked everybody on playoff football".

[htismaqe]

Our brass thought this team could win now last year. They even said it before the season started. Did you not expect them to try to fill all the glaring holes they could with any possible resource available?

We needed a fucking CB. Do you know what QB's are in this division?

Anybody with one eye knew how bad Dunta Robinson is. It's fucking obvious.

[RunKC]

Wrong again, homer.

First of all, I don't hate Dorsey. I don't agree with some of his moves, mostly because he hasn't shown any consistency in his approach.

I PRAISED the Dorsey and Reid hires when they came on board. I wasn't happy with the Alex Smith trade but when he went out and proved I was wrong about him, I was back on board.

Now they're trying to shovel us the "build through the draft" shit which is code for "now that we've hooked everybody on playoff football".

It's funny that you are implying that building through the draft and winning now can't go together.

[htismaqe]

It's funny that you are implying that building through the draft and winning now can't go together.

Not the way they did it.

[O.city]

Our brass thought this team could win now last year. They even said it before the season started. Did you not expect them to try to fill all the glaring holes they could with any possible resource available?

We needed a ****ing CB. Do you know what QB's are in this division?

If we needed a cb and Dunta Robinson was the answer to that question mark, well, that doesn't speak very well.

If they thought it was a win now team last year, what changed? We now know we have other glaring holes which are obvious, and instead of going win now and filling them like they did last year, they're letting young guys duke it out for them.

I don't have a problem with that, but it's not a consist approach in regards to last year.

[O.city]

Unless they think they didn't need to go sign any free agents to fill said holes because they can do it in house (maybe they can, I hope), they need a home run draft

[RunKC]

If we needed a cb and Dunta Robinson was the answer to that question mark, well, that doesn't speak very well.

If they thought it was a win now team last year, what changed? We now know we have other glaring holes which are obvious, and instead of going win now and filling them like they did last year, they're letting young guys duke it out for them.

I don't have a problem with that, but it's not a consist approach in regards to last year.

Why do you believe that they think that they can't get back to the playoffs and have a chance to win next year?

[O.city]

Also don't take this as me thinking they need to sign any big free agents. They didn't.

However, there were and still are free agents out there that would really help, and I will never have a problem with them thinking they can develop an cultivate the talet on the roster to a higher level.

But that's a lot of pressure on young guys.

[htismaqe]

Why do you believe that they think that they can't get back to the playoffs and have a chance to win next year?

Oh, I know they believe they can. They have no business being in their jobs if they don't think they can win each and every year.

It's not about them believing. It's about us believing.

I don't see anything right now that suggests they'll repeat what they did last year, let alone improve on it. I could always be wrong, of course.

[BossChief]

I can't believe any human being would defend signing Dunta Robinson.

I watch a lot of Falcons football and Dunta was DONE last year.

Dorsey got extremely lucky that Marcus Cooper fell in his lap...otherwise, Dunta might have cost us the playoffs.

[O.city]

Why do you believe that they think that they can't get back to the playoffs and have a chance to win next year?

I don't think they think (what?) they can't, but they're banking on young mostly unproven guys putting them over the hump.

That's a lot to ask, but I do think we probably have the coaching staff in place to develop them.

[htismaqe]

I don't think they think (what?) they can't, but they're banking on young mostly unproven guys putting them over the hump.

That's a lot to ask, but I do think we probably have the coaching staff in place to develop them.

That's definitely the good thing about Andy Reid.

I just hope it doesn't turn out like Marty. I see A LOT of similarities...

[Bewbies]

I can't believe any human being would defend signing Dunta Robinson.

I watch a lot of Falcons football and Dunta was DONE last year.

Dorsey got extremely lucky that Marcus Cooper fell in his lap...otherwise, Dunta might have cost us the playoffs.

He did cost us the playoffs.

[BossChief]

That's definitely the good thing about Andy Reid.

I just hope it doesn't turn out like Marty. I see A LOT of similarities...

Except Andy is a good playoff coach.

[O.city]

That's definitely the good thing about Andy Reid.

I just hope it doesn't turn out like Marty. I see A LOT of similarities...

Luckily, I think Reid's offensive philosophy is more conducive with the current rules etc to be successful.

However, unless our dc improves or our defense improves, we are in trouble

[lcarus]

I can't believe any human being would defend signing Dunta Robinson.

I watch a lot of Falcons football and Dunta was DONE last year.

Dorsey got extremely lucky that Marcus Cooper fell in his lap...otherwise, Dunta might have cost us the playoffs.

I didn't defend it, but I had a better expectation out of him. Probably because I didn't know how much he had regressed the past few seasons and I remember him being pretty good back in the day. Plus he wasn't starting, so I was hoping maybe he'd be a good veteran filler player to have. Boy was I wrong....

[chiefzilla1501]

Band-aid in year 1, try to make the playoffs. Fail and then start over with a build through the draft approach.

It's almost exactly the same thing.

Our cap situation and age was disastrous. What Dorsey inherited is nothing close to the shit show Kuharich inherited. In that case the best option was to hack the team apart. The chiefs right now are not nearly as old and have some very favorable cap years coming up.

[RunKC]

Oh, I know they believe they can. They have no business being in their jobs if they don't think they can win each and every year.

It's not about them believing. It's about us believing.

I don't see anything right now that suggests they'll repeat what they did last year, let alone improve on it. I could always be wrong, of course.

I think we still have a lot of talent on the team from last year. We have a QB who we can believe in, finally.
Vance Walker is a big upgrade from Tyson Jackson IMO.

Of course there are unknowns, and we do play a harder schedule, but I think we will be in the playoff race.

I'll have to see the draft that we have. I really do think we can get 2 or 3 players from this draft to come in and play immediately..and play well.

[RunKC]

I can't believe any human being would defend signing Dunta Robinson.

I watch a lot of Falcons football and Dunta was DONE last year.

Dorsey got extremely lucky that Marcus Cooper fell in his lap...otherwise, Dunta might have cost us the playoffs.

Nobody is defending Dunta Robinson dumbass.

They needed a CB and he was the best option. It turned out to be a bad move. They moved on.

And I think they will draft another CB in May.

[lcarus]

I think we still have a lot of talent on the team from last year. We have a QB who we can believe in, finally.
Vance Walker is a big upgrade from Tyson Jackson IMO.

Of course there are unknowns, and we do play a harder schedule, but I think we will be in the playoff race.

I'll have to see the draft that we have. I really do think we can get 2 or 3 players from this draft to come in and play immediately..and play well.

Agreed. Who do you want us to draft with our first and second round picks? Or at least what positions do you want them to draft? I don't know a lot of players in the draft, but I would really really love to see us nab a good TE early in this draft. Even moreso than WR I think.

[BossChief]

Nobody is defending Dunta Robinson dumbass.

They needed a CB and he was the best option. It turned out to be a bad move. They moved on.

And I think they will draft another CB in May.

Hahahahaha

[O.city]

Yeah, dunta wasn't the best option available.

He was available though

[RunKC]

Hahahahaha

Then who was the best option? Also keep in mind we just used a a lot of money on the other free agents + Alex Smith's salary so it we couldn't get a high profile player.

[O.city]

We really need some of those guys from last years draft to play well, and to hit an impact player from this draft.

[RunKC]

We really need some of those guys from last years draft to play well, and to hit an impact player from this draft.

That's the plan. Time to see if Dorsey is as good as we think he is.

[BossChief]

Then who was the best option? Also keep in mind we just used a a lot of money on the other free agents + Alex Smith's salary so it we couldn't get a high profile player.

Aquib Talib signed for a similar amount.

Want a few more examples?

[RunKC]

Aquib Talib signed for a similar amount.

Want a few more examples?

hahahaha

[BossChief]

Rodgers Cromartie
Captain munnderlyn
Drayton Florence

[BossChief]

hahahaha

You think Dunta Robinson and Talib are equals?

[mcaj22]

Brent Grimes, Cary Williams, pretty much anyone

[BossChief]

I said at the time that we should have thrown that 5 million at a good safety, but what do I know.

I should bump that thread.

[chiefzilla1501]

Oh, I know they believe they can. They have no business being in their jobs if they don't think they can win each and every year.

It's not about them believing. It's about us believing.

I don't see anything right now that suggests they'll repeat what they did last year, let alone improve on it. I could always be wrong, of course.

If Vance Walker and Joe Mays are better than Jackson and Jordan (and they probably will be), then we are 1 even below average free safety and either one playmaker or two quality starters away from being better than last year.

And the Cowboys and Redskins have the mentality every year that they can win. Great teams like the Broncos and Patriots tend to have a few quiet years before they attack. For as much talk as there is about those two teams, we don't mention that these kinds of inactive offseasons are actually fairly common.

[BossChief]

Rashad Johnson
Mike Mitchell
Glover Quinn
Louis Delmas
Kenny Phillips
Patrick Chung
Adrian Wilson

[milkman]

My scenario assumes we keep pushing for a young QB as Seattle and San Fran did. It also shows that if we play our cards right, we can improve in 2014 and significantly improve in 2015 because of our massive amount of cap space and the depth 17 picks provides to our roster.

Would you agree that if KC can find their kaepernick or Russell Wilson, then what we are doing now is a good approach? It worked nicely for the 49ers.

And......Here we are. Again.

Your scenario, for building SB team through the draft, starts out by trading 2 2nd round picks for a QB that you don't reasonably believe can lead you to a SB in the time your plan requires to achieve that goal.

You seriously can't see the sheer stupidity in that?

[Pitt Gorilla]

This is what good teams do: Build inexpensively from within. If he's good, great. If not, try again.

[beach tribe]

Why would I explain something that you can't possibly comprehend? You love the Fisher pick. You love the Alex Smith trade.

You've bought into their plan hook, line, and sinker. Enjoy it.

Just curious, You thing the Smith trade was a bad move?

[beach tribe]

And......Here we are. Again.

Your scenario, for building SB team through the draft, starts out by trading 2 2nd round picks for a QB that you don't reasonably believe can lead you to a SB in the time your plan requires to achieve that goal.

You seriously can't see the sheer stupidity in that?

How much time do think it should reasonably take to compete?

I've been saying 2015. That leaves a 4 year window for smith at least.
Which is 4 years to find his replacement.
It is completely fine to have traded those picks for the QB you want when there wasn't one on the roster.

[milkman]

How much time do think it should reasonably take to compete?

I've been saying 2015. That leaves a 4 year window for smith at least.
Which is 4 years to find his replacement.
It is completely fine to have traded those picks for the QB you want when there wasn't one on the roster.

So you're good with trading 2 high picks for a caretaker?

[BossChief]

Just curious, You thing the Smith trade was a bad move?

I know that wasnt directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway.

I think we got fleeced in the initial trade, but that if Alex Smith can maintain the level of play he performed at over the course of the last 7-8 games (including the playoff game) AND signs a REASONABLE contract, we got a bargain.

If he signs for something like 17-20 million per year and that causes us to lose guys like Justin Houston...then yeah, the trade was a bad move.

Alex Smith is a guy tat needs a really good team around him to have a chance at a title...giving him 15-20% of the overall cap means that severely limits the teams ability to maintain a high level team around him.

My hope is that he signs for something between 12-15 million per year...then were in business...and if he falls flat on his face, we will be in position to see what we have with Bray and/or draft another quarterback that can give us a cheap window of opportunity similar to what Andy did in Philly with Nick Foles.

[J Diddy]

So you're good with trading 2 high picks for a caretaker?

Alex Smith is 29. We could legitimately have him for another 6 years. 2 seconds for that yes.

[chiefzilla1501]

And......Here we are. Again.

Your scenario, for building SB team through the draft, starts out by trading 2 2nd round picks for a QB that you don't reasonably believe can lead you to a SB in the time your plan requires to achieve that goal.

You seriously can't see the sheer stupidity in that?

No, I don't. I don't see stupidity in believing that rebuilding was not an option last year given fan morale and hiring Reid, a coach who badly needed to win again. I also don't believe that that approach obligates you to all of a sudden panic and stack the team for a short run. And no, I don't get the people in a panic that our window is only 3 more years and then the bubble bursts.

I don't think it's stupid to believe that getting 3 or 4 extra picks, freeing up money in 2015 for a legit free agency run (without mortgaging our future), and locking up guys like Berry and Houston to flexible contracts is a lot better than panicking and overpaying marginal free agents, losing free picks in 2015, and leaving ourselves with a very average to below average cap situation in 2015.

[chiefzilla1501]

So you're good with trading 2 high picks for a caretaker?

I don't see why we can't be very competitive next year. If Dorsey does his job. I think our 2015 season if we wait is a hell of a lot better than 2015 if we panicked and spent money this year. I also don't see why we can't be just as good if not better this year than 2013.

[milkman]

Alex Smith is 29. We could legitimately have him for another 6 years. 2 seconds for that yes.

And once again, only 4 SBs have been won by QBs over the age of 34, so the reasonable expectation is a 4 year window.

[chiefzilla1501]

And once again, only 4 SBs have been won by QBs over the age of 34, so the reasonable expectation is a 4 year window.

The Chiefs can easily milk a few years out of him, groom a guy like Murray or even Bray to replace him, and that is more than enough time to start drafting the guys who will ultimately replace our veterans. And in year 4, the veterans you lose open up the cap space for you to buy their replacement.

If Dorsey does his job, we can compete for a Super Bowl now, and the window stays open a lot longer. IF he does his job.

[MotherfuckerJones]

And once again, only 4 SBs have been won by QBs over the age of 34, so the reasonable expectation is a 4 year window.

Ya. Unless we fall into a franchise QB, which we've yet to do in our history.

[milkman]

I don't see why we can't be very competitive next year. If Dorsey does his job. I think our 2015 season if we wait is a hell of a lot better than 2015 if we panicked and spent money this year. I also don't see why we can't be just as good if not better this year than 2013.

So, you think a couple of extra 5th and 6th round picks in 2015 are going to raise this team to new heights in 2015.

Yeah, sure.

[beach tribe]

I know that wasnt directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway.

I think we got fleeced in the initial trade, but that if Alex Smith can maintain the level of play he performed at over the course of the last 7-8 games (including the playoff game) AND signs a REASONABLE contract, we got a bargain.

If he signs for something like 17-20 million per year and that causes us to lose guys like Justin Houston...then yeah, the trade was a bad move.

Alex Smith is a guy tat needs a really good team around him to have a chance at a title...giving him 15-20% of the overall cap means that severely limits the teams ability to maintain a high level team around him.

My hope is that he signs for something between 12-15 million per year...then were in business...and if he falls flat on his face, we will be in position to see what we have with Bray and/or draft another quarterback that can give us a cheap window of opportunity similar to what Andy did in Philly with Nick Foles.

I also think that how great the trade is, will come down to whether we are able to sign him, for <15 mil per.
I think we will. I think he's good enough to win with, and I think he proved in the PO game, that he doesn't need the greatest team in the world around him to be effective, although it will help to have much more weapons.

[RunKC]

I know that wasnt directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway.

I think we got fleeced in the initial trade, but that if Alex Smith can maintain the level of play he performed at over the course of the last 7-8 games (including the playoff game) AND signs a REASONABLE contract, we got a bargain.

If he signs for something like 17-20 million per year and that causes us to lose guys like Justin Houston...then yeah, the trade was a bad move.

Alex Smith is a guy tat needs a really good team around him to have a chance at a title...giving him 15-20% of the overall cap means that severely limits the teams ability to maintain a high level team around him.

My hope is that he signs for something between 12-15 million per year...then were in business...and if he falls flat on his face, we will be in position to see what we have with Bray and/or draft another quarterback that can give us a cheap window of opportunity similar to what Andy did in Philly with Nick Foles.

If John Dorsey is as good as we hope he'll be, then the bold won't happen.

The draft is so great because not only do you get the chance to get so many young players. You get the chance to get them all cheap.

That's why I've always admired Pittsburgh and Green Bay's front office. They can pay their QB and draft well enough year in and year out to get talented young players to replace the older vets who think they deserve a ton of cash.

[O.city]

How many Super Bowls have been won by teams who "pay" their qb big money?

[J Diddy]

And once again, only 4 SBs have been won by QBs over the age of 34, so the reasonable expectation is a 4 year window.

That's a ridiculous comparison. Are you telling me that Payton wasn't capable of winning a superbowl last year?

It's not like at the age of 34 their arm stops working.

[chiefzilla1501]

So, you think a couple of extra 5th and 6th round picks in 2015 are going to raise this team to new heights in 2015.

Yeah, sure.

Adding 3 to 4 picks so we have 16 to 17 picks in 2 years... if Dorsey does his job right, it adds a few starters, hopefully some playmakers, and big time quality depth. It might allow you to draft depth guys who can allow you to cut guys like Fasano, DeVito, Sean Smith, and Daniel who are eating up way too much cap.

Locking up Smith, Berry and Houston now helps us avoid the massive cap inflation next year not to mention giving other teams a chance to let them test the market and drive up the price. We can also make their contracts 2015 cap friendly. If you do that, cut some of those guys above, and restructure Hali/Flowers next year, we will have a shitload of cash for free agents and we won't have to mortgage our future to use it.

So yes, I think 16 to 17 picks and a shitload of free agent cash in 2015 could make us very good in 2015.

[beach tribe]

So you're good with trading 2 high picks for a caretaker?

I don't view him as a caretaker. Like you said, He's got a 4-5 year window.
That's not the biggest window in the world, but yes, I think it's worth 2 2nds.

4 SBs out of 40 is roughly 10%.

I wonder what the percentage is for all other age groups. How about from 30-34 which is what we will have for Smith, and what age group I would imagine the highest percentage of SBs won would fall under.
How about 22-26 which is what the next four years would be if we had a rookie, and what I would imagine is probably the lowest outside of 34+
Not to mention that 34+ is probably the lowest average age of NFL starters.

Also I think those 4 years gives a huge window to find his successor without having to acquire one out of desperation.

[RunKC]

If Alex Smith plays like last season, then the compensation is well worth it, especially if he does what he did in Indy.

The goal should be to get a balanced team emphasizing a quality QB and quality pass rushers that can get you to the playoffs every year and give you a chance to win.

[beach tribe]

Adding 3 to 4 picks so we have 16 to 17 picks in 2 years... if Dorsey does his job right, it adds a few starters, hopefully some playmakers, and big time quality depth. It might allow you to draft depth guys who can allow you to cut guys like Fasano, DeVito, Sean Smith, and Daniel who are eating up way too much cap.

Locking up Smith, Berry and Houston now helps us avoid the massive cap inflation next year not to mention giving other teams a chance to let them test the market and drive up the price. We can also make their contracts 2015 cap friendly. If you do that, cut some of those guys above, and restructure Hali/Flowers next year, we will have a shitload of cash for free agents and we won't have to mortgage our future to use it.

So yes, I think 16 to 17 picks and a shitload of free agent cash in 2015 could make us very good in 2015.

This whole plan depends on how they draft.
We need all the picks we can get and our entire chance for success depends on how they draft.

If we draft well, we can constantly have a loaded roster, and compete year in and year out.

[chiefzilla1501]

This whole plan depends on how they draft.
We need all the picks we can get and our entire chance for success depends on how they draft.

If we draft well, we can constantly have a loaded roster, and compete year in and year out.

Whether we spend or don't spend, it depends on us drafting well. Worst case scenario, we don't draft well and our expensive veterans are replaced by expensive veterans. People forget that when good players leave, they take their expensive contracts with them.

[O.city]

It's also not as easy as just bringing in another high prices free agent. Continuity, consistency are pretty hue in these cases.

The best teams sign their own, then let them go when they're too old.

[beach tribe]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Are you telling me that Payton wasn't capable of winning a superbowl last year?

It's not like at the age of 34 their arm stops working.

Yeop. Like I said, roughly 10% of SBs have been won by QBs over 34, and 34+ is proabably the lowest % of starters in the league.
Which is probably pretty favorable compared to all other age groups outside of 26-30&30-34 groups which Smith will fall under for the next four seasons.
I know, I said all of this already.

[beach tribe]

Whether we spend or don't spend, it depends on us drafting well. Worst case scenario, we don't draft well and our expensive veterans are replaced by expensive veterans. People forget that when good players leave, they take their expensive contracts with them.

Spending is worthless if we don't draft well.
Nothing else really matters.

[chiefzilla1501]

It's also not as easy as just bringing in another high prices free agent. Continuity, consistency are pretty hue in these cases.

The best teams sign their own, then let them go when they're too old.

The first step is not freaking out if we think a guy like Rishaw Johnson might be worth a look at starter just because he was cut or hasn't started a single game. Especially for positions that aren't that important. If we keep buying replacements, we'll never have the kind of trust to let cheap young talent prove their worth.

[RunKC]

The first step is not freaking out if we think a guy like Rishaw Johnson might be worth a look at starter just because he was cut or hasn't started a single game. Especially for positions that aren't that important. If we keep buying replacements, we'll never have the kind of trust to let cheap young talent prove their worth.

This is such a great post.

So many people here seem to point the finger at these young guys from the 2013 class without letting them have the chance to play things out in their due time.
Some of these guys haven't even had the chance to play yet.

[O.city]

This is such a great post.

So many people here seem to point the finger at these young guys from the 2013 class without letting them have the chance to play things out in their due time.
Some of these guys haven't even had the chance to play yet.

Maybe because up to this point, those same guys, against nfl competition, have shown to be either mediocre, or injury prone, or both.

They may end up being great, or they may keep sucking. For the chiefs sake, I hope it's the former.

[O.city]

Like it or not, the NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Guys don't always get their due time.

[beach tribe]

The first step is not freaking out if we think a guy like Rishaw Johnson might be worth a look at starter just because he was cut or hasn't started a single game. Especially for positions that aren't that important. If we keep buying replacements, we'll never have the kind of trust to let cheap young talent prove their worth.

And Johnson has started a game and looked damn good doing it.
Also got a ringing endorsement from the guy he's going to be replacing, who said, he improved tremendously throughout the season.
Dorsey hit on some young castoffs like Cooper. He very may well have done it again.
G is probably the position of lowest positional value, and they seem to think this guy can do. I'm very interested in seeing if they are right.
G isn't like T. Sometimes all you need is JAG at those positions.

[J Diddy]

Hilarity concerning A. Smith

Check out NFL.com 05 draft do over

Notice who the chiefs pick

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000337191/article/2005-nfl-draft-doover-san-francisco-49ers-get-aaron-rodgers?campaign=Facebook_writers_brooks

[beach tribe]

There was seemingly no drop off in production in the SD game when Johnson filled in for Geoff S.

[O.city]

If they were doing this with just Johnson, that's one thing.

But they're banking on a lot of young unproven guys.

[O.city]

The whole "looked good in the SD game" stuff is great and all, but that's a pretty damn small sample size

[chiefzilla1501]

And Johnson has started a game and looked damn good doing it.
Also got a ringing endorsement from the guy he's going to be replacing, who said, he improved tremendously throughout the season.
Dorsey hit on some young castoffs like Cooper. He very may well have done it again.
G is probably the position of lowest positional value, and they seem to think this guy can do. I'm very interested in seeing if they are right.
G isn't like T. Sometimes all you need is JAG at those positions.

Between Kush, Rokevius Watkins, and Rishaw Johnson, we need for one of those guys to hit to neutralize losing Schwartz. I'm fine with those chances and it's even possible that one of those guys also unseats Allen or Hudson. And agree... worst case scenario, you have a bad Guard. Least of my worries.

[RunKC]

If they were doing this with just Johnson, that's one thing.

But they're banking on a lot of young unproven guys.

This is literally what the Steelers and Packers have done for so long.

Dorsey has a ton of confidence. He's got balls. I'll give him that.

[chiefzilla1501]

If they were doing this with just Johnson, that's one thing.

But they're banking on a lot of young unproven guys.

I don't see a problem with that. And one of those guys, like Commings, has to be a shade above terrible to be an upgrade over Kendrick Lewis. The only guy we should worry about is Eric Fisher, and there's lots of reasons to believe he won't be as bad as people think he'll be.

[O.city]

With his ability to play center and the fact that he's bulked up this offseason, Kush will end up being the swing guy inside

[O.city]

This is literally what the Steelers and Packers have done for so long.

Dorsey has a ton of confidence. He's got balls. I'll give him that.

No, not quite.

They had guys with a little more experience to step in.

[O.city]

I don't see a problem with that. And one of those guys, like Commings, has to be a shade above terrible to be an upgrade over Kendrick Lewis. The only guy we should worry about is Eric Fisher, and there's lots of reasons to believe he won't be as bad as people think he'll be.

Just as there are as many reasons to think he will be just as bad as some think.

They're banking on getting solid production from at least 4 guys right now, at pretty important spots none the less, who haven't really ever produced anything.

Pretty risky

[beach tribe]

The whole "looked good in the SD game" stuff is great and all, but that's a pretty damn small sample size

Agreed.
I'm willing to give the guy a chance before shitting on him though, being the only sample we have is a positive one.

[O.city]

Agreed.
I'm willing to give the guy a chance before shitting on him though, being the only sample we have is a positive one.

So what do we do with Eric fisher?

[beach tribe]

I see no reason, considering they do draft well, which is what our success hinges on that we can't pick up some viable competition at G in round 5 on.

[beach tribe]

So what do we do with Eric fisher?

Pray lol

(unless you are Dave Lane)

[J Diddy]

If they were doing this with just Johnson, that's one thing.

But they're banking on a lot of young unproven guys.

Let them play. If they can't play get rid of them. Stockpiling backups that everyone's high on as long as they're not guaranteed to play is stupid.

[O.city]

I see no reason, considering they do draft well, which is what our success hinges on that we can't pick up some viable competition at G in round 5 on.

Actually, from all I've read, this years class gets pretty thin at guard after about the 3/4 round

[O.city]

Pray lol

(unless you are Dave Lane)

Ha.

[New World Order]

I don't see why we can't be very competitive next year. If Dorsey does his job. I think our 2015 season if we wait is a hell of a lot better than 2015 if we panicked and spent money this year. I also don't see why we can't be just as good if not better this year than 2013.



2014 will be disastrous. We actually have to play a legit schedule this year

[Floridafan]

Some great observations on this post, but I think we should all keep one thing in mind. Dorsey has a very smart football mind. He gets up everyday and thinks, "how can I make the Chiefs a better football team". We all get up and go do our job and get home and crap ourselves about what hasn't been done. As I said before we really only lost one guy I would have kept, Schwartz. Other than that, with the depth of talent in this years draft, we are going to get some good players out of it. Talented veterans are going to be cut due to money issues and we'll have an opportunity to go after them.

Reid is a good football coach and knows what he needs to build a winning football team. We got a QB that showed us all he has brass balls and is willing to do what he has to to win. The playoff loss was not on Alex. With a good QB and Jammal Charles, adding a couple of decent receivers and a CB and safety we should be in decent shape. No we didn't go after the BIG names like Dungver but I didn't want to. You don't spend the future of your team for short term victory, we were not that close anyway. Dorsey and Reid are doing it the right way, through the draft and waiting for the right veterans to be cut and they will make their move. Guys have a little faith. We finally have a good front office that has knowledge of what we need. Chill and enjoy the off season We just might be really good next year, maybe not win as many games based on the tough schedule, but we will be a better team. Just my 2 cents.

[RunKC]

No, not quite.

They had guys with a little more experience to step in.

Most of their stars are players they drafted.

[milkman]

That's a ridiculous comparison. Are you telling me that Payton wasn't capable of winning a superbowl last year?

It's not like at the age of 34 their arm stops working.

Did you not see the difference in Manning's arm from game 1 to game 19?

[beach tribe]

Actually, from all I've read, this years class gets pretty thin at guard after about the 3/4 round

Thin just means that there won't be many available. Doesn't mean there aren't any available. Again, it just depends on how well you draft, and how well your scouting department has done their job.
It's also impossible to tell how deep a class was until those players have gotten some play in actual games.
Sometimes it's obvious, like it is with WRs, other times you just don't know from draft evaluations from media outlets.

[Titty Meat]

The backups plate great for 1 fucking half they scored 3 points in the second half and blew a double digit lead way to go backups!

[O.city]

Most of their stars are players they drafted.

Ok

So do most teams, but they don't gift positions to players who have a small limited number of snaps in game play starting spots very often.

[beach tribe]

2014 will be disastrous. We actually have to play a legit schedule this year

We have no idea how the season will play out.

[beach tribe]

Ok

So do most teams, but they don't gift positions to players who have a small limited number of snaps in game play starting spots very often.

Teams that draft well do it all the time.

And there is no indication that this guy will not have to earn his job in camp, so nothing has been gifted as of yet.

[O.city]

We have no idea how the season will play out.

So we can't discuss how we think it will play out? That's what we are all doing here right?

[RunKC]

I understand that the draft is great, but if you can get young players like Rashaw Johnson, Sean McGrath and Marcus Cooper off the scrap heap and build them up to be quality starters, that speaks very well to your football IQ and player evaluation.

[RunKC]

So we can't discuss how we think it will play out? That's what we are all doing here right?

A little early to get final decisions since the draft hasn't happened yet.

[O.city]

Teams that draft well do it all the time.

And there is no indication that this guy will not have to earn his job in camp, so nothing has been gifted as of yet.

As of right now, he's the starter, along with comings at FS, fisher at LT and likely Kelce at Te.

Obviously this is pre draft and there's more free agency al things can change, but again, what else should we discuss?

And other teams that draft well don't do it that way very often. They start new youn players, but they usually have more experience than the ones we are looking to start.

[O.city]

I understand that the draft is great, but if you can get young players like Rashaw Johnson, Sean McGrath and Marcus Cooper off the scrap heap and build them up to be quality starters, that speaks very well to your football IQ and player evaluation.

So far, 1 of the above is a quality starter, so let's not get too ahead of ourselves

[beach tribe]

So we can't discuss how we think it will play out? That's what we are all doing here right?

Of, course.

But his statement reads as if is a foregone conclusion, which it is not.

[beach tribe]

So far, 1 of the above is a quality starter, so let's not get too ahead of ourselves

1 quality starter off of the scrap heap is great.
1 every off-season would be awesome.
I would not count on that though, but just finding 1 in 1 off-season, with a cpl more who contribute is very promising results thus far.

[mcaj22]

I understand that the draft is great, but if you can get young players like Rashaw Johnson, Sean McGrath and Marcus Cooper off the scrap heap and build them up to be quality starters, that speaks very well to your football IQ and player evaluation.

also speaks very well in being able to put in a waiver claim before a good team does.

we will see if they have that same waiver magic this year at 23, which I highly doubt.

[beach tribe]

also speaks very well in being able to put in a waiver claim before a good team does.

we will see if they have that same waiver magic this year at 23, which I highly doubt.

Very solid point.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Did someone say Rickshaw...Potato Salad! !

[htismaqe]

This is literally what the Steelers and Packers have done for so long.

Dorsey has a ton of confidence. He's got balls. I'll give him that.

The Packers without Aaron Rodgers, aren't even a playoff team...

[htismaqe]

Adding 3 to 4 picks so we have 16 to 17 picks in 2 years... if Dorsey does his job right, it adds a few starters, hopefully some playmakers, and big time quality depth. It might allow you to draft depth guys who can allow you to cut guys like Fasano, DeVito, Sean Smith, and Daniel who are eating up way too much cap.

Locking up Smith, Berry and Houston now helps us avoid the massive cap inflation next year not to mention giving other teams a chance to let them test the market and drive up the price. We can also make their contracts 2015 cap friendly. If you do that, cut some of those guys above, and restructure Hali/Flowers next year, we will have a shitload of cash for free agents and we won't have to mortgage our future to use it.

So yes, I think 16 to 17 picks and a shitload of free agent cash in 2015 could make us very good in 2015.

IF Dorsey does his job right...you'll have to forgive some us if we just don't believe that's possible until we see some actual proof.

[htismaqe]

There was seemingly no drop off in production in the SD game when Johnson filled in for Geoff S.

The whole team was backups. It's called SURPRISE.

[htismaqe]

I understand that the draft is great, but if you can get young players like Rashaw Johnson, Sean McGrath and Marcus Cooper off the scrap heap and build them up to be quality starters, that speaks very well to your football IQ and player evaluation.

They did better with UDFAs than they did in the actual draft.

If you think that's gonna work long-term, I got news for ya.

[RunKC]

The Packers without Aaron Rodgers, aren't even a playoff team...

Didn't they draft that guy? Hmmm

[RunKC]

They did better with UDFAs than they did in the actual draft.

If you think that's gonna work long-term, I got news for ya.

This has yet to be seen

[htismaqe]

Didn't they draft that guy? Hmmm

They sure as hell didn't trade multiple 2nd round picks for him. :hmmm:

[htismaqe]

This has yet to be seen

The same could be said about the UDFAs. They could all fail miserably this year, leaving the team with nothing. The "remains to be seen" argument is only convenient for you when it supports your opinion.

[chiefzilla1501]

IF Dorsey does his job right...you'll have to forgive some us if we just don't believe that's possible until we see some actual proof.

I don't blame the skepticism. I'm skeptical too. But skepticism shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing. Loading up on free agents today because you don't trust the guy to draft (despite us really not knowing yet if he is or is not good at it) is playing it extremely safe with a much lower reward than we pretend it to be.

[RunKC]

The same could be said about the UDFAs. They could all fail miserably this year, leaving the team with nothing. The "remains to be seen" argument is only convenient for you when it supports your opinion.

I agree but right now guys like Marcus Cooper look promising.

I'm referring to the now, not the future.

[htismaqe]

I don't blame the skepticism. I'm skeptical too. But skepticism shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing. Loading up on free agents today because you don't trust the guy to draft (despite us really not knowing yet if he is or is not good at it) is playing it extremely safe with a much lower reward than we pretend it to be.

Loading up on free agents today, when we came closer to winning a playoff game than anytime in the last TWO DECADES, is going for it, not playing it safe.

I don't care about longer rewards. This is the Chiefs, there are no longer rewards.

[htismaqe]

I agree but right now guys like Marcus Cooper look promising.

He absolutely does.

I'm referring to the now, not the future.

So was I. As of RIGHT NOW, Dorsey did better in UDFA than he did in the draft.

[O.city]

This has yet to be seen

As of right now, it's not even close

[Rain Man]

I'd have to double-check to confirm, but this might be the largest Rishaw Johnson thread we've ever had on chiefsplanet.

[chiefzilla1501]

Loading up on free agents today, when we came closer to winning a playoff game than anytime in the last TWO DECADES, is going for it, not playing it safe.

I don't care about longer rewards. This is the Chiefs, there are no longer rewards.

No, the best thing we did in two decades was the massive rebuild through Herm and Kuharich. If they changed coaches, more effectively used that 2009 draft, and stuck with the 4-3, and got a good QB (this was actually a regime that took the position seriously, even if they whiffed a few times). Vermeils teams were overrated. For as much as he damaged this team by loading in the window, you'd expect a much better result than one playoff loss in four years.

[htismaqe]

No, the best thing we did in two decades was the massive rebuild through Herm and Kuharich. If they changed coaches, more effectively used that 2009 draft, and stuck with the 4-3, and got a good QB (this was actually a regime that took the position seriously, even if they whiffed a few times). Vermeils teams were overrated. For as much as he damaged this team by loading in the window, you'd expect a much better result than one playoff loss in four years.

The first thing Herm and Kuharich did was try to patch together the remnants of Vermeil's team and make a run at the playoffs.

They lost in the 1st round and delayed the rebuild by a year.

By the time the actual rebuild was in full-swing, Herm had run out of political capital and found himself out of a job.

Dorsey and Reid came in here and so far, they're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

[chiefzilla1501]

The firhing Herm and Kuharich did was try to patch together the remnants of Vermeil's team and make a run at the playoffs.

They lost in the 1st round and delayed the rebuild by a year.

By the time the actual rebuild was in full-swing, Herm had run out of political capital and found himself out of a job.

Dorsey and Reid came in here and so far, they're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

I think you're reinventing history. The repatch was all Peterson. There w as talk that Herm and Peterson didn't get along. Best proof, Herm wanted to start croyle and Peterson decided to sign Huard to a big deal.

Herm went over Petersons head. I think it's pretty much implied that he asked to tear the team apart even if it meant a few painful seasons and that hunt was completely on the same page. You could tell hunt felt really guilty about firing Herm. Herm was fired because of pioli. In the same way pioli douched his way into bad mouthing Kuharich for years.

And Herm ended up being right. The only reason we have the core today is because Kuharich and Herm made a bold decision to fight back against Peterson and put their jobs on the line to set up a youth movement. They handed up a tremendous foundation for pioli and pioli whiffed.

[chiefzilla1501]

The first thing Herm and Kuharich did was try to patch together the remnants of Vermeil's team and make a run at the playoffs.

They lost in the 1st round and delayed the rebuild by a year.

By the time the actual rebuild was in full-swing, Herm had run out of political capital and found himself out of a job.

Dorsey and Reid came in here and so far, they're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

Dorsey and Reid may be doing the same thing. Again, if pioli was not in charge, this team could have been a playoff team by 2009 (at least, playoff talent, coached by a terrible game day coach)

[htismaqe]

I think you're reinventing history. The repatch was all Peterson. There w as talk that Herm and Peterson didn't get along. Best proof, Herm wanted to start croyle and Peterson decided to sign Huard to a big deal.

Herm went over Petersons head. I think it's pretty much implied that he asked to tear the team apart even if it meant a few painful seasons and that hunt was completely on the same page. You could tell hunt felt really guilty about firing Herm. Herm was fired because of pioli. In the same way pioli douched his way into bad mouthing Kuharich for years.

And Herm ended up being right. The only reason we have the core today is because Kuharich and Herm made a bold decision to fight back against Peterson and put their jobs on the line to set up a youth movement. They handed up a tremendous foundation for pioli and pioli whiffed.

Herm himself said the biggest mistake HE made was delaying the rebuild for a year.

[htismaqe]

Dorsey and Reid may be doing the same thing. Again, if pioli was not in charge, this team could have been a playoff team by 2009 (at least, playoff talent, coached by a terrible game day coach)

Pioli didn't sign Bowe. Pioli didn't trade picks for Alex Smith. Pioli didn't sign Schwartz and then let him walk. Pioli didn't sign Dunta Robinson.

He's a great scapegoat but some of this started after he was gone.

[Dunerdr]

I'd have to double-check to confirm, but this might be the largest Rishaw Johnson thread we've ever had on chiefsplanet.

I just have to comment once in the largest rush as Johnson thread in the WORLD!

[chiefzilla1501]

Pioli didn't sign Bowe. Pioli didn't trade picks for Alex Smith. Pioli didn't sign Schwartz and then let him walk. Pioli didn't sign Dunta Robinson.

He's a great scapegoat but some of this started after he was gone.

I'm not blaming pioli for Dorsey being less than effective last year. I am saying that Herm and Kuharich handed him a team with a terrific young core and a buttload of cap space and pioli whiffed by forcing a 3-4 we weren't built to run. The one thing Reid did get right was at least he hired coaches who could mostly fit the personnel.

[chiefzilla1501]

Herm himself said the biggest mistake HE made was delaying the rebuild for a year.

At least he had the guts to do it. Many would not. And he had to fight Peterson tooth and nail to get it. And it ended being the right approach. Our core today has a shit load more to do with Herm and Kuharich than Peterson and pioli. And that includes losing guys like Brandon Carr and Bernard pollard.

[htismaqe]

I'm not blaming pioli for Dorsey being less than effective last year. I am saying that Herm and Kuharich handed him a team with a terrific young core and a buttload of cap space and pioli whiffed by forcing a 3-4 we weren't built to run. The one thing Reid did get right was at least he hired coaches who could mostly fit the personnel.

I agree with that. But then again, you're talking about what a good job Reid has done, not Dorsey.

[htismaqe]

At least he had the guts to do it. Many would not. And he hated to fight Peterson tooth and nail to get it. And it ended being the right approach. Our core today has a shit load more to do with Herm and Kuharich than Peterson. And that includes losing guys like Brandon Carr and Bernard pollard.

We're talking past each other.

Herm said his biggest mistake was what he did the FIRST YEAR. He wanted to start the rebuild right away but didn't press the issue.

Ultimately if the approach with Dorsey and Reid fails, it's all going to come back to this first year. The entirety of their stay here hinges on Alex Smith and Eric Fisher.

[RunKC]

Dorsey is doing the same thing, but he's not in the terrible position Herm was in. He's still got good players that aren't old as hell. He also got fortunate to get Poe, Houston, Berry and Stephenson, who are cornerstones (or solid players in Stephenson's case).

No matter who the GM is, they would have no choice with Tamba and Flowers. Both those guys are gone next year IMO. Their cap is way too high.

We need more drafts like 2008. That one draft alone has made our team worth watching during Herm and pioli's time

[htismaqe]

Dorsey is doing the same thing, but he's not in the terrible position Herm was in. He's still got good players that aren't old as hell. He also got fortunate to get Poe, Houston, Berry and Stephenson, who are cornerstones (or solid players in Stephenson's case).

No matter who the GM is, they would have no choice with Tamba and Flowers. Both those guys are gone next year IMO. Their cap is way too high.

We need more drafts like 2008. That one draft alone has made our team worth watching during Herm and pioli's time

As a Chiefs fan, those kinds of draft come around about once every 10 years.

[RunKC]

As a Chiefs fan, those kinds of draft come around about once every 10 years.

I hope that changes with Dorsey

[htismaqe]

I hope that changes with Dorsey

We all do.

[milkman]

I don't blame the skepticism. I'm skeptical too. But skepticism shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing. Loading up on free agents today because you don't trust the guy to draft (despite us really not knowing yet if he is or is not good at it) is playing it extremely safe with a much lower reward than we pretend it to be.

I highly doubt you'll find one person arguing with you that is talking about "loading up" on free agents.

Most are talking no more than 3.

Speaking for myself only, I'm talking 2 mid tier free agents who won't eat up a ton of capspace.

You're overstating my side to make your rationalizations seem rational.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

So we can't discuss how we think it will play out? That's what we are all doing here right?

You guys cried last year about a tough schedule ROFL NFC EAST OMG 0 AND 4

[htismaqe]

I highly doubt you'll find one person arguing with you that is talking about "loading up" on free agents.

Most are talking no more than 3.

Speaking for myself only, I'm talking 2 mid tier free agents who won't eat up a ton of capspace.

You're overstating my side to make your rationalizations seem rational.

They loaded up on free agents LAST YEAR. That's the fucking problem that Zilla doesn't seem to want to acknowledge...

[chiefzilla1501]

I highly doubt you'll find one person arguing with you that is talking about "loading up" on free agents.

Most are talking no more than 3.

Speaking for myself only, I'm talking 2 mid tier free agents who won't eat up a ton of capspace.

You're overstating my side to make your rationalizations seem rational.

You don't represent everyone. Lots of people are talking about re-signing Schwartz, re-signing Albert, also adding Bird and a receiver like Sanders.

[chiefzilla1501]

They loaded up on free agents LAST YEAR. That's the ****ing problem that Zilla doesn't seem to want to acknowledge...

I've acknowledged it plenty of times. I don't care as much about loading up on free agents in ways that don't destroy your long-term cap. I don't see the issue in loading up one year to get the team back on track so this team can be competitive as they rebuild.

My approach depends on Dorsey being very good in the draft. I get that you would be skeptical on that. I am too. But I don't see why the approach I favor is so out of left field. This year, in order to do the things we want to do to sign our guys, we have to tinker around with restructuring existing contracts and we give up opportunities for free picks. Both things I don't want to do. Last year, we didn't have that issue.

[Dave Lane]

Interesting analysis...

[Discuss Thrower]

Gotta say Rishaw's flame out puts a lot of stock in the theory San Diego did more to lose that game by not taking the backups seriously more than the backups played well enough to beat San Diego.

[Dave Lane]

Gotta say Rishaw's flame out puts a lot of stock in the theory San Diego did more to lose that game by not taking the backups seriously more than the backups played well enough to beat San Diego.

Exactly.

[ILChief]

I'd rather have rishaw Johnson than mcglynn or whatever his name is

[aturnis]

It's Grimace...

[Easy 6]

I'd rather have rishaw Johnson than mcglynn or whatever his name is

McGroin

[BigCatDaddy]

McGroin

McLovin.