Philip Gaines Review

[RunKC]

On my phone so somebody else can post the story.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/9/16/12938338/the-ceiling-for-chiefs-cb-phillip-gaines-is-sky-high-let-s-hope-we-get-to-see-it?utm_campaign=arrowheadpride&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

This guy looked really good last weekend. It really shows just how big of a loss he was last year and how much faith Dorsey had in this guy to replace Sean Smith.

Hope he keeps it up.

[Buckweath]

I think fans know he will be good. They are just concerned he might be injury-prone.

I thought before last year he could have a better 2015 season than Marcus Peters...well that was before Peters had a great season.

[Red Dawg]

Maybe the man. Time will tell.

[Simply Red]

he'll get plenty of tests - next one will be about 50 hrs from now

[The Franchise]

He's going to have his hands full with Fuller.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

He's going to have his hands full with Fuller.

He'll face him and Hopkins both since our CBs don't travel. His length and quickness make for a good counter to those two, but it won't be easy.

The front 7 has to show up in the run game and create long yardage situations.

[beach tribe]

I really, really wanted to keep Sean Smith, but after seeing what Cooks in the Saints did to him last week after he got his big payday, I think Dorsey he made the right move, even considering the fact that it was retarded to put him on an island out there with Cooks.

Benched. First game after getting paid.

Gaines just HAS to stay healthy. That's what it all hinges on....

Oh, and there ain't no way Gaines is getting torched for 98 yards.

[DJ's left nut]

I actually like Gaines on Fuller. Both guys are athletes with some rough edges to their games. Fuller's not going to go out there and kill Gaines with technique nor is he going to be able to just out-athlete him. Gaines vs. Fuller should be a draw.

[ModSocks]

I just wish Gaines would tackle. Yes, i read the article and i disagree with him regarding his physicality. Peters is a poor tackler as well.

I like our corners, don't get me wrong. But this might be the worst pair of tackling corners i've seen on the Chiefs in the last 10 years.

Peters doesn't look like a particularly willing tackler. Especially compared to Brandon Flowers, who was tremendous in run support. Gaines DOES, but he seems to just bounce off ball carriers every time he attempts to tackle. Hell, even in the article the final Gif shows him bouncing off (Travis Benjamin?) on that WR screen even though he had a clear crack at him.

[ModSocks]

I actually like Gaines on Fuller. Both guys are athletes with some rough edges to their games. Fuller's not going to go out there and kill Gaines with technique nor is he going to be able to just out-athlete him. Gaines vs. Fuller should be a draw.

I agree. That's going to be a fun matchup to watch.

[O.city]

The good news is, tackling for a corner is pretty far down the list of things he needs to do.

[ModSocks]

The good news is, tackling for a corner is pretty far down the list of things he needs to do.

Not on Sunday it wasn't. For the first 3 quarters the Chiefs couldn't tackle. The corners included.

They were getting to the ball carriers just fine. They just couldn't wrap up. One of Melvin Gordon's big runs came off a missed tackle by Gains.

[O.city]

Not on Sunday it wasn't. For the first 3 quarters the Chiefs couldn't tackle. The corners included.

They were getting to the ball carriers just fine. They just couldn't wrap up. One of Melvin Gordon's big runs came off a missed tackle by Gains.

If your corners are missing tackles on running backs, you've got bigger issues than that.

You want your corners to be willing tacklers obviously, but that's not a death blow if they cant.

[DJ's left nut]

Not on Sunday it wasn't. For the first 3 quarters the Chiefs couldn't tackle. The corners included.

They were getting to the ball carriers just fine. They just couldn't wrap up. One of Melvin Gordon's big runs came off a missed tackle by Gains.

It's like an outfielders arm.

Sure, an outfielder having a cannon is a good thing. And it could well be the difference between a good OFer and an elite one.

But you can be a good OFer without a good throwing arm. If you can chase it down in the gaps and provide some good offense, your arm is secondary.

Corners are the same way. Sure, you'd like your CBs to be excellent tacklers but Revis never has been. Deion was shit. Apart from Sherman, how many of the elite CBs in the game are also plus tacklers?

It matters but O.City is right, there are a slew of things that matter more for cornerbacks. Hell, just being where you're supposed to be is as important. Brandon Browner is a great tackler; when he's lucky enough to be near the football. Meanwhile Gaines couldn't finish the tackle on that screen but simply being there blew the play apart. Tackling is a secondary concern for cornerbacks.

[raybec 4]

If your corners are missing tackles on running backs, you've got bigger issues than that.

You want your corners to be willing tacklers obviously, but that's not a death blow if they cant.

I agree for the most part. The issue there is why was Gordon that far down the field for Gaines to be put in a 1 on 1 situation. That's on the front 7

[O.city]

I think in the end, Gaines ends up being the better pure cover corner when compared to peters.

I don't think peters is ever a true shutdown half the field guy, but he's a playmaker. Paired with a shutdown guy accross from him, it's perfect. That's why it's big for gaines to stay healthy and progress.

[Hammock Parties]

This guy is a borderline Pro Bowler because I've been talking shit about him for months.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I like our corners, don't get me wrong. But this might be the worst pair of tackling corners i've seen on the Chiefs in the last 10 years.


I got this impression too, but it might just be because EVERYBODY was tackling like shit in that game. Hope they all pull their heads out of their asses this week...

[Chief Pagan]

This guy is a borderline Pro Bowler because I've been talking shit about him for months.

So that means Alex Smith is a FHOF?

Sweet.

[Hammock Parties]

So that means Alex Smith is a FHOF?

Sweet.

no

guys who i've already been proven to be right about don't count

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I just wish Gaines would tackle. Yes, i read the article and i disagree with him regarding his physicality. Peters is a poor tackler as well.

I like our corners, don't get me wrong. But this might be the worst pair of tackling corners i've seen on the Chiefs in the last 10 years.

Peters doesn't look like a particularly willing tackler. Especially compared to Brandon Flowers, who was tremendous in run support. Gaines DOES, but he seems to just bounce off ball carriers every time he attempts to tackle. Hell, even in the article the final Gif shows him bouncing off (Travis Benjamin?) on that WR screen even though he had a clear crack at him.


Those guys have Berry, Parker and Sorenson backing them up. Those three are NAILS when it comes to thumping and tackling. The CBs main focus is to prevent completions.

[ThaVirus]

Sorenson sucks

[Easy 6]

I think in the end, Gaines ends up being the better pure cover corner when compared to peters.

I don't think peters is ever a true shutdown half the field guy, but he's a playmaker. Paired with a shutdown guy accross from him, it's perfect. That's why it's big for gaines to stay healthy and progress.

Agreed on all of this... Gaines is the more fluid, faster, quick twitch-type player

What he lacks is Peters instincts, but they definitely make for an interesting combination of skills for teams to deal with

[OldSchool]

I'm a big fan of Gaines. I just wish he would stay healthy. That's my only concern with him.

[New World Order]

This guy is a borderline Pro Bowler because I've been talking shit about him for months.


Haha

[jjchieffan]

no

guys who i've already been proven to be right about don't count

You may have been proven right in your own mind. But not in reality. You have been as wrong about Alex Smith as you were about Geno Smith.

[SAUTO]

You may have been proven right in your own mind. But not in reality. You have been as wrong about Alex Smith as you were about Geno Smith.

No, more wrong

[O.city]

Sauto, you ever make it down to springfield?

[BossChief]

Agreed on all of this... Gaines is the more fluid, faster, quick twitch-type player

What he lacks is Peters instincts, but they definitely make for an interesting combination of skills for teams to deal with
Actually, his instincts and ability to find the ball are very impressive. He just knocks down a lot of passes that I'd like to see him create a turnover from...maybe Peters can teach him a few tricks and we will have a young and highly impressive set of corners for the foreseeable future.

[MMXcalibur]

Impressive, but I need to see more of this type of play....and that of course means that he needs to stay on the field.

Still, an impressive start.

[Coochie liquor]

I just wish Gaines would tackle. Yes, i read the article and i disagree with him regarding his physicality. Peters is a poor tackler as well.

I like our corners, don't get me wrong. But this might be the worst pair of tackling corners i've seen on the Chiefs in the last 10 years.

Peters doesn't look like a particularly willing tackler. Especially compared to Brandon Flowers, who was tremendous in run support. Gaines DOES, but he seems to just bounce off ball carriers every time he attempts to tackle. Hell, even in the article the final Gif shows him bouncing off (Travis Benjamin?) on that WR screen even though he had a clear crack at him.

Dion Sanders was a bad tackler too. Gotta take the good with the bad.

[Easy 6]

Actually, his instincts and ability to find the ball are very impressive. He just knocks down a lot of passes that I'd like to see him create a turnover from...maybe Peters can teach him a few tricks and we will have a young and highly impressive set of corners for the foreseeable future.

He just isnt the natural playmaker Peters is, and never will be IMO

Peters isnt particularly big or fast, but he combines solid amounts of all those with an emphasis on quickness, and innate, uncanny football ability... he is a 95 in Madden awareness, quickness and stamina

Peters is a talented hustler full of heart

If Gaines was Peters, he would catch those knockdowns... but where Gaines excels is that greasy fast change of direction game, if he just stays healthy very few players are going to outright clown him out of their breaks or with straight line speed

Gaines is the natural athlete without the nature boy instincts

Whatever the case may be, you're right... if Gaines stays healthy our outside coverage is in rock solid hands

[OldSchool]

He just isnt the natural playmaker Peters is, and never will be IMO

Peters isnt particularly big or fast, but he combines solid amounts of all those with an emphasis on quickness, and innate, uncanny football ability... he is a 95 in Madden awareness, quickness and stamina

Peters is a talented hustler full of heart

If Gaines was Peters, he would catch those knockdowns... but where Gaines excels is that greasy fast change of direction game, if he just stays healthy very few players are going to outright clown him out of their breaks or with straight line speed

Gaines is the natural athlete without the nature boy instincts

Whatever the case may be, you're right... if Gaines stays healthy our outside coverage is in rock solid hands
Peters is a master baiter.

Gaines is less likely to take chances and bait QBs into throws but he will probably prevent more throws going his way due to his ability to run step for step with any WR.

[New World Order]

He just isnt the natural playmaker Peters is, and never will be IMO

Peters isnt particularly big or fast, but he combines solid amounts of all those with an emphasis on quickness, and innate, uncanny football ability... he is a 95 in Madden awareness, quickness and stamina

Peters is a talented hustler full of heart

If Gaines was Peters, he would catch those knockdowns... but where Gaines excels is that greasy fast change of direction game, if he just stays healthy very few players are going to outright clown him out of their breaks or with straight line speed

Gaines is the natural athlete without the nature boy instincts

Whatever the case may be, you're right... if Gaines stays healthy our outside coverage is in rock solid hands


Peters reminds me of Asante Samuel

[mdchiefsfan]

Not on Sunday it wasn't. For the first 3 quarters the Chiefs couldn't tackle. The corners included.

They were getting to the ball carriers just fine. They just couldn't wrap up. One of Melvin Gordon's big runs came off a missed tackle by Gains.

Defend/pick the pass to your obligation and there is never a single need to tackle for a corner.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Sauto, you ever make it down to springfield?

You asked if I lived in Springfield, do you live in Springfield?

[O.city]

You asked if I lived in Springfield, do you live in Springfield?

I do.

I was asking in the food thread, was gonna recommend you try out hoorman meats. New butcher shop on east battlefield, they have the original store, a small one in west battlefield.

Unbelievable selection. Highly recommend. I wanted a little thicker cut ribeye than they had out so he went back and cut it, let me go back and check out the stuff.

Check it out

[beach tribe]

15 hrs this post hasbeen here and not a peep.This place is slippin.

[Quesadilla Joe]

The good news is, tackling for a corner is pretty far down the list of things he needs to do.

One of the big reasons why Denver's defense is so good is because of how well our corners (and safeties) tackle.

I think Eric Berry is the only person in your secondary who is a reliable tackler, and Ron Parker might be one of the worst tackling safeties in the league.

[staylor26]

One of the big reasons why Denver's defense is so good is because of how well our corners (and safeties) tackle.

I think Eric Berry is the only person in your secondary who is a reliable tackler. Ron Parker might one of the worst tackling safeties in the league.

Steven Nelson is a really good tackler. Gaines and Peters are pretty average.

Ron Parker definitely has his struggles when it comes to tackling, but he's not as bad as you're making it sound, and he's better in coverage than both of your starting safeties.

[RunKC]

Steven Nelson is a really good tackler. Gaines and Peters are pretty average.

Ron Parker definitely has his struggles when it comes to tackling, but he's not as bad as you're making it sound, and he's better in coverage than both of your starting safeties.

Bradley Roby had a badly missed tackle last Thursday and TJ Ward is one of the worst safeties in the league at moving laterally.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

We need a solid game from him against fuller. If he can limit him to 50% receptions and <70 yards I'll count that as a win. Osweiler is gonna be chucking prayers to him and Hopkins all day. Safeties will have a valuable opportunity to snag picks

[Quesadilla Joe]

Bradley Roby had a badly missed tackle last Thursday and TJ Ward is one of the worst safeties in the league at moving laterally.

The Kelvin Benjamin play? I'll give him a pass on that one because of how big Benjamin is, but he's usually a pretty dependable tackler.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

One of the big reasons why Denver's defense is so good is because of how well our corners (and safeties) tackle.

I think Eric Berry is the only person in your secondary who is a reliable tackler, and Ron Parker might be one of the worst tackling safeties in the league.

That's a stupid remark. Parker , Berry and Sorenson are all solid tacklers. Berry and Sorenson are thumpers too. And Parker has corner capabilities.

[Anyong Bluth]

Dion Sanders was a bad tackler too. Gotta take the good with the bad.
No, he was atrocious. Tackler is not the right word for whatever he was attempting.

[MMXcalibur]

That's a stupid remark. Parker , Berry and Sorenson are all solid tacklers. Berry and Sorenson are thumpers too. And Parker has corner capabilities.

Consider the source.
According to that dipstick, he thinks Trevor Siemian could lead tackling drills at practice.

[ModSocks]

Another shitty performance by Philip Gaines in terms of tackling.

He can't tackle at an NFL level.

On a key third down (3rd & 7?) he had the ball carrier one on one behind the LOS and completely whiffed, allowing the ball carrier to pick up a first down and extend a drive that resulted in the FG that put the game out of reach. He makes that tackle and it's a different game. Instead he completely whiffed. He couldn't even grab a leg and hang on for dear life like a normal CB. Instead he tries to arm tackle around his thighs and just bounces right off.

And then he gives up the big play on a 3rd and 17.....

People say that tackling isn't that a big a deal for a corner....i call bullshit.

Denver's corners tackle. Houston's corners tackle. Phillip Gaines can't tackle anyone.

[jjchieffan]

Another shitty performance by Philip Gaines in terms of tackling.

He can't tackle at an NFL level.

On a key third down (3rd & 7?) he had the ball carrier one on one behind the LOS and completely whiffed, allowing the ball carrier to pick up a first down and extend a drive that resulted in the FG that put the game out of reach. He makes that tackle and it's a different game. Instead he completely whiffed. He couldn't even grab a leg and hang on for dear life like a normal CB. Instead he tries to arm tackle around his thighs and just bounces right off.

And then he gives up the big play on a 3rd and 17.....

People say that tackling isn't that a big a deal for a corner....i call bullshit.

Denver's corners tackle. Houston's corners tackle. Phillip Gaines can't tackle anyone.

I saw that play and was pissed as well. But in his defense, the Chiefs D wasn't set. Asswiper saw that and quick snapped to exploit that play. Gaines had 2 guys to cover. DJ was trying to get there, but was too late. I would have liked to have seen Gaines make the plat, but, truth be told, he doomed from the start.

[ModSocks]

I saw that play and was pissed as well. But in his defense, the Chiefs D wasn't set. Asswiper saw that and quick snapped to exploit that play. Gaines had 2 guys to cover. DJ was trying to get there, but was too late. I would have liked to have seen Gaines make the plat, but, truth be told, he doomed from the start.

Idc if DJ was in position or not. Gaines was. And it's not like Gaines was blocked.

He HAS to make that play. Two weeks in a row now where his inability to tackle has been on full display.

I want to be a Gaines fan. I really do. Secondary players are my favorite position group.

But thus far the only thing i've seen Gaines do well is run with receivers.

He can run with receivers. That's about it. He hasn't show an ability to play the ball or an ability to tackle in the open field.

[DJ's left nut]

Another shitty performance by Philip Gaines in terms of tackling.

He can't tackle at an NFL level.

On a key third down (3rd & 7?) he had the ball carrier one on one behind the LOS and completely whiffed, allowing the ball carrier to pick up a first down and extend a drive that resulted in the FG that put the game out of reach. He makes that tackle and it's a different game. Instead he completely whiffed. He couldn't even grab a leg and hang on for dear life like a normal CB. Instead he tries to arm tackle around his thighs and just bounces right off.

And then he gives up the big play on a 3rd and 17.....

People say that tackling isn't that a big a deal for a corner....i call bullshit.

Denver's corners tackle. Houston's corners tackle. Phillip Gaines can't tackle anyone.

You're pissed at Gaines because he couldn't fight through a block and clean up the mess left by our 34 year old veteran MLB who didn't realize where he was suppose to !@#$ing line up?

Gaines had a very good day. And yes, he could've made that tackle if he were one of the best tackling CBs in football. He ain't - no shit.

But he spent a lot of time matched up against on of the best WRs in football and did the job well.

Gaines is about 15th on the list of things to bitch about yesterday.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I do.

I was asking in the food thread, was gonna recommend you try out hoorman meats. New butcher shop on east battlefield, they have the original store, a small one in west battlefield.

Unbelievable selection. Highly recommend. I wanted a little thicker cut ribeye than they had out so he went back and cut it, let me go back and check out the stuff.

Check it out

Just saw this! Thanks for the tip! One of the things I bitch about living here is I can't find an honest to God butcher. This is YUGE!!! Thanks a ton bud.

[ModSocks]

You're pissed at Gaines because he couldn't fight through a block and clean up the mess left by our 34 year old veteran MLB who didn't realize where he was suppose to !@#$ing line up?

Gaines had a very good day. And yes, he could've made that tackle if he were one of the best tackling CBs in football. He ain't - no shit.

But he spent a lot of time matched up against on of the best WRs in football and did the job well.

Gaines is about 15th on the list of things to bitch about yesterday.

You can keep making excuses and week after week he'll keep missing tackles. He did NOT have a great day. I don't know what game you were watching. He had several missed tackles and was beaten often.

I'm not asking him to be the best tackling corner in football. Im asking him to be a competent tackler.

[ModSocks]

Two weeks in a row now where's had a receiver behind the LOS and whiffed, resulting in 1st downs.

But nah, his inability to tackle isn't an issue. Im sure it'll never cost us any games.....

:rolleyes:

[DaneMcCloud]

Two weeks in a row now where's had a receiver behind the LOS and whiffed, resulting in 1st downs.

But nah, his inability to tackle isn't an issue. Im sure it'll never cost us any games.....

:rolleyes:

I thought he had a very good day, too.

So did Mellinger, FWIW:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article102705627.html

Phil Gaines looks good. Very good. His coverage is consistently good, and occasionally excellent. The Texans tried Fuller on a go route against Gaines, and the corner stuck him like velcro. If Gaines turned around, he probably had an interception, but even so, he’s had a strong first two games this year.

He did miss a few tackles, including one on DeAndre Hopkins that cost the Chiefs about 15 yards, but still.

Cornerbacks are going to give it up.

[DJ's left nut]

You can keep making excuses and week after week he'll keep missing tackles. He did NOT have a great day. I don't know what game you were watching. He had several missed tackles and was beaten often.

I'm not asking him to be the best tackling corner in football. Im asking him to be a competent tackler.

If you're asking him to make that play then yes, that's exactly what you're asking him to be. Derrick Johnson - the brains of the defense and the guy that's supposed to be the surest tackler on the squad - he's the guy that fucked that play up and fucked it up badly.

Gaines was just the poor bastard left on an island asked to do a job that no corner in football manages with regularity. Even the best aren't going to blow that play up more than half the time.

That would've been an AMAZING play by Gaines and you're using the fact that he didn't make it as a rallying cry. That's ridiculous. And no, he didn't get beat often. The defense gave up a single TD yesterday (over Peters no less) despite being on the field all damn day because the offense couldn't do its job. You want beat often? Look at the other half of the field and even Peters held his own more than he didn't.

[staylor26]

:facepalm:

[DJ's left nut]

Two weeks in a row now where's had a receiver behind the LOS and whiffed, resulting in 1st downs.

But nah, his inability to tackle isn't an issue. Im sure it'll never cost us any games.....

:rolleyes:

Yeah, you're not asking him to be an elite tackler, you're just asking him to fight through blockers to start nailing WRs behind the line of scrimmage after his linebacker fucking spaces out.

Oh wait, he DID blow up the play you're bitching about last week. I'm sure you're going to give credit to Zombo who pretty much fell on top of the WR after Gaines read and wrecked that screen.

[staylor26]

Yeah, you're not asking him to be an elite tackler, you're just asking him to fight through blockers to start nailing WRs behind the line of scrimmage after his linebacker ****ing spaces out.

Oh wait, he DID blow up the play you're bitching about last week. I'm sure you're going to give credit to Zombo who pretty much fell on top of the WR after Gaines read and wrecked that screen.

Gaines made two plays like that last week that he's choosing to ignore. One was phenomenal.

[ModSocks]

I thought he had a very good day, too.

So did Mellinger, FWIW:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article102705627.html

Phil Gaines looks good. Very good. His coverage is consistently good, and occasionally excellent. The Texans tried Fuller on a go route against Gaines, and the corner stuck him like velcro. If Gaines turned around, he probably had an interception, but even so, he’s had a strong first two games this year.

He did miss a few tackles, including one on DeAndre Hopkins that cost the Chiefs about 15 yards, but still.

Cornerbacks are going to give it up.

It's the same excuse "It's ok he missed tackles because he's a corner".

Bullshit.

Like i said, he can run with receivers. That's great. But he's not a complete corner. He doesn't make plays on the ball and he doesn't tackle.

Im down on Gaines, but he needs to fix that shit, and "he's a corner so he doesn't need to tackle" isn't a valid excuse. Especially when his inability to tackle has resulted in the D's inability to get off the field.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought he had a very good day, too.

So did Mellinger, FWIW:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article102705627.html

Phil Gaines looks good. Very good. His coverage is consistently good, and occasionally excellent. The Texans tried Fuller on a go route against Gaines, and the corner stuck him like velcro. If Gaines turned around, he probably had an interception, but even so, he’s had a strong first two games this year.

He did miss a few tackles, including one on DeAndre Hopkins that cost the Chiefs about 15 yards, but still.

Cornerbacks are going to give it up.

You don't fucking say?

I was under the impression that they're all Ray Nitschke out there. Detox says that they should be throwing guys out of the way and blowing shit up in the backfield to merely get to competent.

[ModSocks]

Yeah, you're not asking him to be an elite tackler, you're just asking him to fight through blockers to start nailing WRs behind the line of scrimmage after his linebacker ****ing spaces out.

Oh wait, he DID blow up the play you're bitching about last week. I'm sure you're going to give credit to Zombo who pretty much fell on top of the WR after Gaines read and wrecked that screen.

Read? He was in man coverage ffs.

[Rain Man]

Right now Gaines is the best cornerback on the team.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Yeah, you're not asking him to be an elite tackler, you're just asking him to fight through blockers to start nailing WRs behind the line of scrimmage after his linebacker ****ing spaces out.

Oh wait, he DID blow up the play you're bitching about last week. I'm sure you're going to give credit to Zombo who pretty much fell on top of the WR after Gaines read and wrecked that screen.
I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but it sounds like DJ had a rough game again. Was he at least better than last week?

[ModSocks]

You don't ****ing say?

I was under the impression that they're all Ray Nitschke out there. Detox says that they should be throwing guys out of the way and blowing shit up in the backfield to merely get to competent.

Hyperbole.

I guess asking defenders to actually tackle is too much these days.

[ModSocks]

I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but it sounds like DJ had a rough game again. Was he at least better than last week?

No, DJ had a good game. It was one play in which DJ didn't recognize the back was lined up outside and was late getting over.

Gaines was NOT blocked, iirc, as the receiver blocked down on DJ, Gaines whiffed and the receiver flew by for the 1st down. They're just trying to blame DJ because they can't bare to concede that Gaines' inability to tackle is costing our defense. Doesn't matter though because this will keep happening.

CP told me i was dead wrong about Cooper too. We'll see.

[O.city]

I don't think anyone is saying it's not important.

It's just not letter A in the bullet points of what a CB needs to excel at.

[DaneMcCloud]

Right now Gaines is the best cornerback on the team.

He's definitely the best cover corner on the team and has stepped into the Sean Smith role very nicely.

Smith wasn't exactly a phenomenal tackler, either.

Nelson made strides yesterday, too, and he's a hitter.

[Rain Man]

I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but it sounds like DJ had a rough game again. Was he at least better than last week?

I thought he had a good game. There was one weird play where something went wrong and Gaines was lined up wide against two receivers, and DJ went sprinting outside a bit too late. I don't know whose fault it was, DJ's or someone else's. But overall DJ played well.

[DJ's left nut]

It's the same excuse "It's ok he missed tackles because he's a corner".

Bullshit.

Like i said, he can run with receivers. That's great. But he's not a complete corner. He doesn't make plays on the ball and he doesn't tackle.

Im down on Gaines, but he needs to fix that shit, and "he's a corner so he doesn't need to tackle" isn't a valid excuse. Especially when his inability to tackle has resulted in the D's inability to get off the field.

It is a valid excuse.

It's like bitching that a WR can't run block as well as a FB. Of course not - it's a perk, not a feature. Dwayne Bowe was a great run blocker and a shit WR; Maclin's a great WR and a meh run blocker. Who would you rather have?

Nobody said he was a great tackler. It's the weak part of his game, but he's a fucking 3rd round pick making $500K/season. Expecting him to be Richard Sherman is fair now?

And again, DJ's inability to line up is why the defense didn't get off the field. You just acting like that was an easy play is absurd. He had to sluff off a blocker and bring down a guy that had already found space. Yeah, it's totally reasonable to expect a DB to just fight off blockers to make open field tackles. Eric Berry does that once every game or so and it's seen as cause for giving him $12 million/season. Gaines can't do it and suddenly he's the guy you're bitching about in a game where at least a dozen guys played worse than he did.

[O.city]

The defense played pretty damn good yesterday. They still need to pressure the QB more without having to blitz to do it, but overall, it was a pretty good performance.

March was much better, the DL was better against the run, the corners held their own against some really good WR's.

If we get that defensive effort every week, we're golden.

[DJ's left nut]

No, DJ had a good game. It was one play in which DJ didn't recognize the back was lined up outside and was late getting over.

Gaines was NOT blocked, iirc, as the receiver blocked down on DJ, Gaines whiffed and the receiver flew by for the 1st down. They're just trying to blame DJ because they can't bare to concede that Gaines' inability to tackle is costing our defense. Doesn't matter though because this will keep happening.

CP told me i was dead wrong about Cooper too. We'll see.

2 on 1 because DJ is in the wrong spot and "they're just trying to blame DJ"....

Sure thing, champ.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought he had a good game. There was one weird play where something went wrong and Gaines was lined up wide against two receivers, and DJ went sprinting outside a bit too late. I don't know whose fault it was, DJ's or someone else's. But overall DJ played well.

Yeah, DJ played well. Most of the defense played fairly well to be honest.

But he sure fucked that play right up.

[O.city]

Wasn't that the play the Texans quick snapped us on?

[staylor26]

Wasn't that the play the Texans quick snapped us on?

Yup.

Gaines fault also.

[O.city]

What the hell is this chat stuff ont he bottom of my screen? Does it work?

[O.city]

Yup.

Gaines fault also.

I do agree with Detox though, at that point in time, he's gotta make that play. It's a tough play, but just get the guy on the ground.

[ModSocks]

It is a valid excuse.

It's like bitching that a WR can't run block as well as a FB. Of course not - it's a perk, not a feature. Dwayne Bowe was a great run blocker and a shit WR; Maclin's a great WR and a meh run blocker. Who would you rather have?

Nobody said he was a great tackler. It's the weak part of his game, but he's a ****ing 3rd round pick making $500K/season. Expecting him to be Richard Sherman is fair now?

And again, DJ's inability to line up is why the defense didn't get off the field. You just acting like that was an easy play is absurd. He had to sluff off a blocker and bring down a guy that had already found space. Yeah, it's totally reasonable to expect a DB to just fight off blockers to make open field tackles. Eric Berry does that once every game or so and it's seen as cause for giving him $12 million/season. Gaines can't do it and suddenly he's the guy you're bitching about in a game where at least a dozen guys played worse than he did.

You keep saying "fight off a blocker". No he didn't. The blocker took on DJ. Gaines had an un-hindered shot at the receiver and failed.

I understand that corners aren't the best tacklers. Im asking him to be average, not shit. His tackling is SHIT. Not NFL competent. He has no technique and he just bounces off of ball carriers. At least grab and hold onto his leg so someone can come and clean it up....

As far as "15 other worse players", yeah well we can talk about THEM in their thread. This thread is about Gaines. We are talking about Gaines. I don't care about the other 15 shitters, we're talking about GAINES' issues.

[ModSocks]

And i agree, overall the defense has a solid performance yesterday. But if they're going to elevate to Texans and Broncos status....these "things that don't matter" need to be cleaned up.

[O.city]

And i agree, overall the defense has a solid performance yesterday. But if they're going to elevate to Texans and Broncos status....these "things that don't matter" need to be cleaned up.

True, but we're also talking about the Texans without Watt or the Broncos without Miller.

Until Houston gets back, or Dee really starts rushing the passer more, I think yesterdays performance was pretty damn good.

[DJ's left nut]

You keep saying "fight off a blocker". No he didn't. The blocker took on DJ. Gaines had an un-hindered shot at the receiver and failed.

I understand that corners aren't the best tacklers. Im asking him to be average, not shit. His tackling is SHIT. Not NFL competent. He has no technique and he just bounces off of ball carriers. At least grab and hold onto his leg so someone can come and clean it up....

As far as "15 other worse players", yeah well we can talk about THEM in their thread. This thread is about Gaines. We are talking about Gaines. I don't care about the other 15 shitters, we're talking about GAINES' issues.

A problem without a solution is just bitching.

What's your solution? "Well just get better, Gaines!" Well shit, I guess he hadn't thought about that. Good call - he'll just get better.

Gaines isn't a good tackler. He's never going to be a good tackler. But he's a damn good cover guy and adds a lot of value to this team. You want him benched for Nelson? Because Nelson might be a little better tackler than Gaines.

Again, he's a 3rd rounder doing the hardest job a CB has extremely well and extremely cheap. THAT'S the most critical job. You can complain all you want or knock down straw men (nobody ever said tackling doesn't matter for a DB, only that it matters less and that the standards are lower), but I fail to see the point.

[O.city]

From my fucked up PoV, corners always try to be hit tacklers. Just wrap him up, hold on and wait for the Calvary.

[DaneMcCloud]

To my eyes, the defensive line, Justin March, Steve Nelson, Ron Parker, Dee Ford and Philip Gaines all elevated their level of play yesterday. Sorenson had a couple nice tackles on TE's for no YAC.

I think that most people felt that the defense would be a Work In Progress but if yesterday is any indication, they're progressing nicely.

Now, that offense...

[ModSocks]

A problem without a solution is just bitching.

What's your solution? "Well just get better, Gaines!" Well shit, I guess he hadn't thought about that. Good call - he'll just get better.

Gaines isn't a good tackler. He's never going to be a good tackler. But he's a damn good cover guy and adds a lot of value to this team. You want him benched for Nelson? Because Nelson might be a little better tackler than Gaines.

Again, he's a 3rd rounder doing the hardest job a CB has extremely well and extremely cheap. THAT'S the most critical job. You can complain all you want or knock down straw men (nobody ever said tackling doesn't matter for a DB, only that it matters less and that the standards are lower), but I fail to see the point.

Oh Jesus. Apparently we can't discuss issues with players on a Chiefs forum now? That's the shit card you wanna play?

What am I, a fan, going to do about it? Really DJ? Don't stoop that low.

Did i say i wanted him benched or cut? I said i wanted him to fix his fuck ups, because right now the weak link in his game has hurt this defense and will hurt it again in the future.

Much like Peters' emotional and inconsistent play, Gaines needs to fix his shit or we're gonna lose games because of it.

[staylor26]

I do agree with Detox though, at that point in time, he's gotta make that play. It's a tough play, but just get the guy on the ground.

I don't disagree with that. It was also just his second game back from the injury, and he's still developing (I don't even think he's played RCB until this year). I don't think anybody disagrees with Detoxing that he needs to make that play, but he's overreacting big time.

[ModSocks]

To my eyes, the defensive line, Justin March, Steve Nelson, Ron Parker, Dee Ford and Philip Gaines all elevated their level of play yesterday. Sorenson had a couple nice tackles on TE's for no YAC.

I think that most people felt that the defense would be a Work In Progress but if yesterday is any indication, they're progressing nicely.

Now, that offense...

Our offense was off. Smith was off. Maclin was off....missing two guards didn't help the run game any.

But mostly...it was the Texans defense. Those boys looked impressive. When the receivers caught the ball, their corners tackled. When we ran, they swarmed. There were no leaks in that Texans D. They were playing championship caliber defense.

We looked like a 10-15 ranked defense.

[ModSocks]

I don't disagree with that. It was also just his second game back from the injury, and he's still developing (I don't even think he's played RCB until this year). I don't think anybody disagrees with Detoxing that he needs to make that play, but he's overreacting big time.

Stating that he's a shit tackler isn't over reacting. It's stating the obvious.

He needs to fix it. It's cost this team opportunities to get off the field through two weeks now.

[O.city]

Texans are a top 5 d. All the way around, really solid.

[RunKC]

That missed tackle by Gaines to end the game was a total fuckup on all levels. I don't believe DJ was suppose do be out there and just ran like hell to try to save the play.

Gaines is a meh tackler, but his coverage has really helped us out.

[DaneMcCloud]

Our offense was off. Smith was off. Maclin was off....missing two guards didn't help the run game any.

But mostly...it was the Texans defense.

Eh, agree to disagree. Bad snap that led to a score, Harris not protecting the ball, fumble fingers by everyone essentially other than Kelce, poor right tackle and guard play, consecutive false starts on the final drive and so on.

The Texans didn't cause any of those. And while the two false start penalties on the final drive sucked, I think it was a mistake not to go for the TD because Onside Kicks recovered is less than 15%.

Score a TD and put pressure on the Texans offense into a mistake. Don't score a TD and the game's over, anyway.

[O.city]

We were out of timeouts and under the 2 minute warning. They had to play for an onside kick.

[DaneMcCloud]

Also, the offensive game plan was pure dogshit.

Last year, the Chiefs had success scheming away from Watt. Clowney's definitely improved but IMO, they just allowed Watt to disrupt them way too often.

Why in the fucking world are the Chiefs carrying 4 TE's if they're not going to use a 3 TE formation? Harris next to Schwartz would have helped considerably.

[DaneMcCloud]

We were out of timeouts and under the 2 minute warning. They had to play for an onside kick.

That's what the "book" says but I don't agree in that situation.

Santos had a bad day. It wasn't the time to put the game in his hands with an onside kick.

[The Franchise]

That's what the "book" says but I don't agree in that situation.

Santos had a bad day. It wasn't the time to put the game in his hands with an onside kick.

Had a bad day because of the kick out of bounds? Had to have been because dude was money with his FGs.

[O.city]

That's what the "book" says but I don't agree in that situation.

Santos had a bad day. It wasn't the time to put the game in his hands with an onside kick.

If you don't recover the onside kick, the games over whether you scored a td or a fg.

There's no other option

[ModSocks]

Eh, agree to disagree. Bad snap that led to a score, Harris not protecting the ball, fumble fingers by everyone essentially other than Kelce, poor right tackle and guard play, consecutive false starts on the final drive and so on.



That's what i meant by our offense being "off". That's why im not really concerned about yesterday's loss. The offense put together an abnormally shit performance.

I haven't seen Alex that off since the Titans game several years ago....and Maclin didn't look like he had his head in the game at all. Where was his normal, chirpy, shit talking self?

Overall we had too many mental mistakes.

Combine that with the Texans playing sound defense and the result is what we saw yesterday.

[DaneMcCloud]

Had a bad day because of the kick out of bounds? Had to have been because dude was money with his FGs.

I think the kick out of bounds had an effect but who knows?

That onside kick was teh suck

[DaneMcCloud]

That's what i meant by our offense being "off". That's why im not really concerned about yesterday's loss. The offense put together an abnormally shit performance.

I haven't seen Alex that off since the Titans game several years ago....and Maclin didn't look like he had his head in the game at all. Where was his normal, chirpy, shit talking self?

Overall we had too many mental mistakes.

Combine that with the Texans playing sound defense and the result is what we saw yesterday.

I'm not concerned with yesterday's loss, either. If they had played their "A" game and lost, I'd be concerned. But the offense sucked ass for 4 quarters and still had a chance to win it with 2 minutes left.

Although I have to admit, if they play well at Arrowhead but stumble in Pittsburgh and Oakland, there will be legitimate questions about their road preparedness.

[Dark Horse]

A couple of quick observations. 1. It doesn't look like Gaines trusts that knee completely yet, he didn't make the quick cuts that we saw him make before the injury. 2. Maclin missed practice on thursday for personal reasons and goes out sunday and has his worst game as a Chief. Was his head somwhere else?

[NJChiefsFan]

I think the kick out of bounds had an effect but who knows?

That onside kick was teh suck

It for sure had an effect on the game. Taub was about to kill somebody. He also was freaking money on his FGs. That long one was as straight as any field goal is going to get. The technique on those type of onside kicks leads to either a perfect bounce or a terrible one.

As for Gaines, he looked pretty good in coverage. As stated, the play shouldn't have ended up in just his hands. It did however, and as also already stated, he has to make that play. A great defense makes that play, not matter who really should have been there. The game was on the offense, but a great defense gives the offense another mulligan by making that play. Gaines does need to improve his tackling, and I don't see why he can't or won't get a little better. Guy is still growing as a player.

[DJ's left nut]

Oh Jesus. Apparently we can't discuss issues with players on a Chiefs forum now? That's the shit card you wanna play?

What am I, a fan, going to do about it? Really DJ? Don't stoop that low.

Did i say i wanted him benched or cut? I said i wanted him to fix his fuck ups, because right now the weak link in his game has hurt this defense and will hurt it again in the future.

Much like Peters' emotional and inconsistent play, Gaines needs to fix his shit or we're gonna lose games because of it.

You're the one that took to abusing straw men, here.

Nobody said his tackling doesn't matter. Nobody said he's elite at it.

But if that's what you're going to hang up on, you're going to run out of time to get pissed at everything on this team. Because again, a CB's tackling is on par with a WRs blocking.

What if Gaines doesn't fix his shit? What if the best he ever becomes is a good cover man and a willing, if poor, tackler? Because do you get the impression that he's shying away from contact? I've never seen that. Mostly he's just a slight guy who's going to be giving up size to just about anyone he's facing.

[Anyong Bluth]

Really?

Gaines is now to blame for other people out of position.


Derp

[Anyong Bluth]

Hyperbole.

I guess asking defenders to actually tackle is too much these days.
Under that assumption we only need 1 guy on D. If he can't tackle whoever has the ball he sucks. Nevermind the blocker. Which means all D lineman suck because they're not sacking the QB every down and those pesky OL have nothing to do with them failing to achieve their goal. The inverse of tackling is blocking sweetheart, and when your team mate has a brainfart and leaves you on an island with 2 guys, 9 / 10 the offense wins that battle.

Coming out of a timeout, your signalcaller, heart of the D, Mr. Tackle, is asleep at the wheel, fails to mark his man, and not even aware Houston's about to quick snap and hit the hot read on the crucial 3rd down of the game that was hanging in the balance of them potentially mounting a comeback in a game they had no business even being within 1 score to knot it up all even, and if so would have robbed all the momentum.



Simple.
fucking.
numbers.

[Kiimo]

Be it known that I did not watch the Houston game. I was up in the wilderness camping.

That said I DID watch the Raiders / Saints game.

Kevin Kietzman and Soren Petro both went off on the Chiefs letting Sean Smith go and keeping Berry.

Welp.

The Chiefs were right. Again.

[CapsLockKey]

Gaines only has a handful of starts under his belt. He's shown a lot more positive than negative and will hopefully continue to get even better. Overall the corners looking very promising. Just need to remember they are very young and inexperienced at this point. Having very little pass rush right now is putting a lot on their shoulders.