2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[bdj23]

Sit down bitch

[BigRedChief]

Just a catastrophically managed inning by Schildt. God, I hate managers' obsession with getting a SP a win.just let them score more runs just to get your pitcher a win. WTF? They already hit two homers this inning and hit the ball hard several times.

We had a 7 run lead on a team that wants our playoff spot. Just give that away for an individual record? A worthless stat.

It’s not a Shildt thing. It’s a baseball manager thing. Supporting your pitcher doesn’t mean fucking over the other 23 players.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I feel like Hicks is a keg of dynamite, just waiting to blow.

[BigRedChief]

I feel like Hicks is a keg of dynamite, just waiting to blow.we had this game won. It shouldn’t even be close. Schildt has pulled guys early before. I’d like to know why he stayed with Mikolas tonight instead of pulling his pitcher when he looked lost, just like the other times he pulled his pitcher.

[Jewish Rabbi]

we had this game won. It shouldn’t even be close. Schildt has pulled guys early before. I’d like to know why he stayed with Mikolas tonight instead of pulling his pitcher when he looked lost, just like the other times he pulled his pitcher.

I know we had the off day yesterday, but he’s gotta get innings somewhere. I’m still not convinced the kids don’t run out of gas before it’s over with.

[BigRedChief]

I know we had the off day yesterday, but he’s gotta get innings somewhere. I’m still not convinced the kids don’t run out of gas before it’s over with.I get that. No way this team or the young pitching can keep this up. They will get burned. Hit a wall. But, it was obvious to anyone watching that Milo had hit the wall right now. He couldn’t make a pitch to get out of the inning.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why in the God Fuck would you go to second there? Stupid as fuck, Gyorko. Got lucky.

[Marcellus]

Pulled it off.

[BigRedChief]

Pulled it off.4-0 road trip so far that most fans were hoping for a 3-3 road trip. :clap:

[Marcellus]

4-0 road trip so far that most fans were hoping for a 3-3 road trip. :clap:

9-0 on their last 9 games on the road.

Like I said baseball is fun again.

[BigRedChief]

9-0 on their last 9 games on the road.

Like I said baseball is fun again.making Matheny look like a fool.

Don’t feel sorry in the slightest. He earned the scorn.

[Frazod]

9-0 on their last 9 games on the road.

Like I said baseball is fun again.

With the Cubs and the Brewers playing the Reds and Pirates, they need to keep it up.

[Frazod]

And after going ahead by two in the top of the 15th, the Buttpirates lose to Milwaukee, who plated three in the bottom of the 15th.

I don't really know much about Clay Holmes, but if tonight's outing was typical of his pitching prowess, he should be selling women's shoes. 4321

[BigRedChief]

With the Cubs and the Brewers playing the Reds and Pirates, they need to keep it up.They play like this, doesn't matter who we play, we will win. And in the current state of play, its a fun brand of baseball.

We have those last 3 games against the Cubs in our pocket. We get in front of Milwaukee. Win that first game and............the pressure is on them. Ya never know.


But, I'm also happy to be looking at the scores too. We are relevant again.PBJ

[Frazod]

The end of that Brewers game last night was just awful. Milwaukee's bench was so depleted at that point that they had to have a relief pitcher bat with two outs. All Holmes had to do was strike out a guy who never bats. And he walked him. :shake:

[bdj23]

Lets do this!

[bdj23]

God damn it.

[Jewish Rabbi]

God damn I love Bader.

[bdj23]

You gilded mf'ers.

[kcpasco]

God damn I love Bader.

Yep, that run was all him.

[kcpasco]

Whelp, Hudson was due for a bad outing I guess.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Whelp, Hudson was due for a bad outing I guess.

I figured we would lose when we didn’t get another run across.

[bdj23]

I still hate Cecil

[kcpasco]

Yep Cecil still sucks.

[Jewish Rabbi]

At least Cecil reaffirmed he sucks in a game we had already lost.

[kcpasco]

Cecil faced 3 lefties so far. 2 hits and a double.

[kcpasco]

At least Cecil reaffirmed he sucks in a game we had already lost.

Off lefties. If he can’t get a lefty out why the hell is he on this team.

[bdj23]

Muh lefty specialist

-0.4 war

7.625 mil a year

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Schildt has made some really bad moves the last few days. Using Cecil in a place where his curve is going to be diminished will result in him getting hit harder than Bryce Harper's dad.

Still, the bullpen was due this kind of outing, because of the most part, they still fucking suck. Hicks is constantly toying with disaster, Norris is a JAG masquerading as a closer, and guys like Mayers, Hudson don't have out pitches at this level.

[kcpasco]

And fuck whoever approved baseball in Colorado.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Using Weaver in this situation makes absolutely no sense. You're down by 8 runs with an iffy pitcher going tomorrow and your pen has been used heavily the last two days. Just keep Garcia in until his arm falls off.

[Marco Polo]

We were due a let down. Let’s come back tomorrow.

p.s. F Cecil


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kcpasco]

Using Weaver in this situation makes absolutely no sense. You're down by 8 runs with an iffy pitcher going tomorrow and your pen has been used heavily the last two days. Just keep Garcia in until his arm falls off.

Should have just kept Cecil in until his arm fell off or he died from embarrassment. Either would have been fine with me.

[BigRedChief]

WTF? I take a night off in this thread and you guys let the team go to shit. Who had the bad mojo?

[jd1020]

WTF? I take a night off in this thread and you guys let the team go to shit. Who had the bad mojo?

https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/160572067683e562faff2fbedb33413b.gif

[bdj23]

I like Bader

[Jewish Rabbi]

God fucking damn I love Bader!

[VAChief]

God ****ing damn I love Bader!

Somewhere Whitey just got a chubby!

[BigRedChief]

I like Baderscoring from 2nd base on an infield single. No throw to 1B. Infielder got the baseball in the base path. Didn’t even field the ball deep.

Has that ever been done?

[BigRedChief]

And fuck whoever approved baseball in Colorado.
Yeah fuck this slow pitch softball offense. Down by 8 runs? You’re in Colorado, no problem. Just get the ball in the air and let the ball travel through the thin air. Or just hit into that football field size outfield. :shake:

[Jewish Rabbi]

Yeah fuck this slow pitch softball offense. Down by 8 runs? You’re in Colorado, no problem. Just get the ball in the air and let the ball travel through the thin air. Or just hit into that football field size outfield. :shake:

Well, we’re on pace for 30 runs today so...

[Frazod]

Jesus. Apparently they resented getting their asses kicked last night.

[BigRedChief]

Jesus. Apparently they resented getting their asses kicked last night. We had one bad inning. Swept the Dodgers. Took 2/3 from the Rockies. I can’t remember a West Coast trip where we played as well as this one.

[Frazod]

We had one bad inning. Swept the Dodgers. Took 2/3 from the Rockies. I can’t remember a West Coast trip where we played as well as this one.

Agreed. Sucks that we played that well and still dropped another game back. Goddamn Reds didn't even put up a fight against the Cubs this weekend.

Luckily their schedule gets much harder over the next couple of weeks.

[KChiefs1]

We had one bad inning. Swept the Dodgers. Took 2/3 from the Rockies. I can’t remember a West Coast trip where we played as well as this one.


Your new manager has done a great job.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Agreed. Sucks that we played that well and still dropped another game back. Goddamn Reds didn't even put up a fight against the Cubs this weekend.

Luckily their schedule gets much harder over the next couple of weeks.

While playing in the WC game sucks, at least they are now 1.5 up on Colorado, 2.5 on the Phillies, and 3 on the Dodgers.

[Frazod]

While playing in the WC game sucks, at least they are now 1.5 up on Colorado, 2.5 on the Phillies, and 3 on the Dodgers.

I want the division. I want to be surrounded by legions of miserable Cub fans again. I really miss that. :grr:

[Chief Roundup]

Against the Nationals and Brewers? WOW!

The Nationals make up ways to lose games on a nightly basis and the Brewers have been falling a part for a while now. Carry your winning streak beyond LA and Colorado and then maybe I'll be impressed about a week split.

I think that winning streak is still in tact.

[Marco Polo]

Leone three up and three down. He was the main return for Grichuk. Had a ~2.50 ERA last year- could be a big producer for us down the stretch.

[BigRedChief]

While playing in the WC game sucks, at least they are now 1.5 up on Colorado, 2.5 on the Phillies, and 3 on the Dodgers.they keep playing like this, they will at least put a scare into the Cubs that the Division isn’t secure, not quite yet anyway.

[VAChief]

I want the division. I want to be surrounded by legions of miserable Cub fans again. I really miss that. :grr:

Yes, always prefer the division, but can you imagine the joy of dealing them a 2011ish type dismissal in the NLDS? What a pleasure destroying that roided up frog eyed Braun’s championship dreams.

[BigRedChief]

Yes, always prefer the division, but can you imagine the joy of dealing them a 2011ish type dismissal in the NLDS? What a pleasure destroying that roided up frog eyed Braun’s championship dreams.Frazod, was talking about the Cubs. But, knocking the Brewers out when they thought that for sure, no doubt, this is the year that they get to the World Series. That was brutal.
I think that winning streak is still in tact.
Originally Posted by jd1020
Against the Nationals and Brewers? WOW!

The Nationals make up ways to lose games on a nightly basis and the Brewers have been falling a part for a while now. Carry your winning streak beyond LA and Colorado and then maybe I'll be impressed about a week split.https://i.imgur.com/LlbpGHq.jpg

[BigRedChief]

Your new manager has done a great job.Thanks man. You saw this team first hand during our first Series. We looked bad, right? We knew we'd be better with a fence post managing the team but this much improvement? :eek: I'm sure we will hit a wall at some point but right now its a fun team. Scoring from 2B on an infield hit? :D

[VAChief]

Frazod, was talking about the Cubs. But, knocking the Brewers out when they thought that for sure, no doubt, this is the year that they get to the World Series. That was brutal.

https://i.imgur.com/LlbpGHq.jpg

Yes, I know he was referencing the baby bears, I was just saying even if we don't win the division, it would be sweet to give them the same treatment we gave the Brewers in 2011. I still can't believe we beat Halladay, Lee and Oswalt in that first series to even get to the NLCS.

[Frazod]

You should hear the local announcers up here today. Apparently sweeping the Reds at home makes the Cubs the ‘27 Yankees. :rolleyes:

[BigRedChief]

Yes, I know he was referencing the baby bears, I was just saying even if we don't win the division, it would be sweet to give them the same treatment we gave the Brewers in 2011. I still can't believe we beat Halladay, Lee and Oswalt in that first series to even get to the NLCS.Beat supposedly, according to every article and broadcaster at the time, Philly's 3 pitchers that were the best ever thrown against a team in a series.

The Cubs did nothing wrong, but I'd like to return the insult and celebrate in Wrigley. Take our own winning picture on the Cubs mound.

[BigRedChief]

God fucking damn I love Bader!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Harrison Bader just scored from 2nd on a ball in the infield! 😱 <a href="https://t.co/dSVF2WMmtj">pic.twitter.com/dSVF2WMmtj</a></p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1033802968200556544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[VAChief]

I think that winning streak is still in tact.

19-5 in the month of August, 23-7 and nine consecutive series wins in the past 30 days. Anyway you slice it, it has been an impressive turnaround.

[jd1020]

https://i.imgur.com/LlbpGHq.jpg[/I]

Waiting for what?

I didn't expect the Dodgers to just lay over.

I'm waiting for the offseason when Mo decides to build the future of the Cardinals around guys like Tyler O'neill.

[bdj23]

Waiting for what?

I didn't expect the Dodgers to just lay over.

I'm waiting for the offseason when Mo decides to build the future of the Cardinals around guys like Tyler O'neill.

Nice deflection

[jd1020]

Nice deflection

I mean you guy are like .5 games up in the WC on 3 or 4 teams and you are talking about shit like knocking the Cubs out of the playoffs.

I would be a little bit worried about a GM who is afraid to make drastic changes looking at this month of baseball where guys like Kolten Wong are having his annual month of offense that make him look like he's turning the corner and Tyler O'neill still striking out 40% of the time but carrying a .450 BABIP.

[VAChief]

Waiting for what?

I didn't expect the Dodgers to just lay over.

I'm waiting for the offseason when Mo decides to build the future of the Cardinals around guys like Tyler O'neill.

ROFL Of course it was the Dodgers laying over that determined that series win. Did the Rockies tank too? How about your Cubbies, did they just "lay over" when the Cards started this streak by taking 2 of 3 from them?

Geez your a total tool.

Oh and I look forward to Theo signing Lance Lynn or Matt Harvey to a multiyear deal after Yu Debacle's shoulder turns out really is hamburger.

[VAChief]

I mean you guy are like .5 games up in the WC on 3 or 4 teams and you are talking about shit like knocking the Cubs out of the playoffs.

I would be a little bit worried about a GM who is afraid to make drastic changes looking at this month of baseball where guys like Kolten Wong are having his annual month of offense that make him look like he's turning the corner and Tyler O'neill still striking out 40% of the time but carrying a .450 BABIP.

First it is 1.5 game lead in the WC dumb ass, learn to read a simple expanded standings. It is a .5 game between them and the second wild card. No one here is claiming anything about your little underachievers this year.

You go on a run like this at this time of year and yeah, you start thinking about the possibilities. The Cubs have flaws that if they don't take care of business (as they should) that final series could be relevant.

I hate to break your bubble, but you guys are far from the dynasty you thought you would have, and if you are honest, that is probably what is chaffing your ass right now.

[O.city]

No rest for the weary. A day off but gotta keep winning.

Another 6 or 7 game win streak would be awesome.

[jd1020]

I hate to break your bubble, but you guys are far from the dynasty you thought you would have, and if you are honest, that is probably what is chaffing your ass right now.

If I'm honest?

The Cubs have been to 3 straight NLCS' and are the best team in the NL right now while missing a key part of their rotation, their MVP, and their closer for significant chunks of the season.

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

[BigRedChief]

Nice deflectionAnd moving the goal posts.

[BigRedChief]

No one here is claiming anything about your little underachievers this year.

You go on a run like this at this time of year and yeah, you start thinking about the possibilities. The Cubs have flaws that if they don't take care of business (as they should) that final series could be relevant.


If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.THIS! JD, show me the posts in here where someone says we are a legitimate threat to your division title. All I see is "hope" posts.

I hate to break your bubble, but you guys are far from the dynasty you thought you would have, and if you are honest, that is probably what is chaffing your ass right now.If I had been him in 2015, I'd been thinking 5 years of owning and threat to go to the WS and win every year. That team was hot and with young talent thanks to tanking and losing 100 games for a few years.
If I'm honest?
Why start now? :rolleyes:

[Frazod]

If I'm honest?

The Cubs have been to 3 straight NLCS' and are the best team in the NL right now while missing a key part of their rotation, their MVP, and their closer for significant chunks of the season.

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

So why do you keep leaking estrogen all over this thread?

[jd1020]

So why do you keep leaking estrogen all over this thread?

I'm not leaking anything.

People quoted me and I responded.

[jd1020]

THIS! JD, show me the posts in here where someone says we are a legitimate threat to your division title. All I see is "hope" posts.

I posted hope too.

I sincerely hope that the Cardinals FO sees all the excitement over a team full of 1-2 WAR players having unsustainable success and chooses to make them the future while guys like Carpenter say their goodbyes.

[jd1020]

If anything has changed with the season for the Cubs this year in regards to their future is that they should be fully committed to moving on from Russell because of the emergence of David Bote over the last couple years in the minors and continued success in MLB so far.

Ian Happ could (should) probably be traded too, but with Maddon's love for players who can be versatile defensively he'll likely play the Zobrist role after his contract expires at the end of next season.

And if the Cubs really wanted to go all in they could look to move Schwarber and blow past the luxury tax and go after Machado or Harper. Signing Machado would likely mean Bryant goes to the OF so I doubt that happens. And I'm not convinced Theo is ready to trade Schwarber so I doubt either one of those happen.

But a package of Russell + Caratini + ?? should return a decent pitching option.

[BigRedChief]

If anything has changed with the season for the Cubs this year in regards to their future is that they should be fully committed to moving on from Russell because of the emergence of David Bote over the last couple years in the minors and continued success in MLB so far.

Ian Happ could (should) probably be traded too, but with Maddon's love for players who can be versatile defensively he'll likely play the Zobrist role after his contract expires at the end of next season.

And if the Cubs really wanted to go all in they could look to move Schwarber and blow past the luxury tax and go after Machado or Harper. Signing Machado would likely mean Bryant goes to the OF so I doubt that happens. And I'm not convinced Theo is ready to trade Schwarber so I doubt either one of those happen.

But a package of Russell + Caratini + ?? should return a decent pitching option.You are focused on this year for the Cardinals, Understandably so. We are not a real threat to your division dominance this year. Next year, that story isn't set yet.

One thing you have ignored with your posts is the value of our young players has jumped up significantly.
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Bader
O'Neill
Flaherty


Mikolas this off season will have trade value too

Have all increased their trade value, agree? Expendable trade value put together with our surplus OF and Kelly = A potential great player in 2018.

[jd1020]

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

[VAChief]

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

You never know for sure on prospects until you get a significant look. It's not like ONeill was some C prospect who hit a few lucky dongs when called up. He has been a top 100 prospect for the last couple of years. Yes, he has a high strikeout percentage, although his plate discipline show signs of adjustment. Hitting a home run every 14 at bats and slugging well over .500 is encouraging. He needs to continue to improve with plate discipline, but his power potential is not a fluke.

What was Baez strikeout percentage in his first partial year when they brought him up. Bueller, Bueller, anyone? 40% and his OPS was around .550 not .850. Totally different players, but Baez made the adjustment to more tolerable levels. We won't know about ONeill until we see more.

Time will tell. One thing is for sure, your setting yourself up for a shit ton of crow if you are wrong.

[VAChief]

I'm not leaking anything.

People quoted me and I responded.

People quoted you and you acted like it was no big deal you were wrong in your assessment. It wasn't just attributable to losing teams. You seem threatened by simple facts.

[VAChief]

If I'm honest?

The Cubs have been to 3 straight NLCS' and are the best team in the NL right now while missing a key part of their rotation, their MVP, and their closer for significant chunks of the season.

If you were honest you would realize how stupid you sound thinking the Cubs are in any way shape or form not the premier team of the NL for the forseeable future.

No one here is suggesting the cubs aren't still the team to beat. The Dodgers were the heavy favorites coming in this year and it looks like they will come up short, so that leaves the baby bears.

The Cards are having fun. Who knows if the wave will last long enough this season, but you are short selling their near term potential. You want to believe that ONeill will be the new Grichuk etc. However we don't know enough to say for sure now what is there.

All we do know is that they are winning at an astonishing clip for over a month now.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

When you say O'Neill is fool's gold, do you mean Yu Darvish fools gold or Addison Russell fool's gold?

[jd1020]

When you say O'Neill is fool's gold, do you mean Yu Darvish fools gold or Addison Russell fool's gold?

You mean Addison Russell the elite defender who's been dealing with a shoulder and finger this year? You know the same thing you want to excuse Paul DeJong for minus the shoulder.

How much has Paul DeJong's OPS dropped for the month since we last talked? 70 points?

[VAChief]

How much has Paul DeJong's OPS dropped for the month since we last talked? 70 points?

.738 is DeJong's current OPS or the same as Russell's best year. DeJong had a broken hand hardly the same as a finger. I don't think he will be the .857 OPS guy he was last year, but I think he can be an adequate defender, 20 homer, 80 rbi guy, hitting 6th or 7th, probably in that above average .780 to .800 range once he completely gets healthy. We have 4 years of sub .700 and just above OPS history to view Russell offensively. He is a fine defender, and there is nothing wrong with going with a defensive glove at short, but let's not be silly and think that was how he was hyped.

[jd1020]

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

[VAChief]

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

Really? Ever?

http://mlbtopprospects.com/2014/12/addison-russell-bio/

https://www.mlb.com/news/bernie-pleskoff-as-prospect-addison-russell-has-tools-to-be-shortstop/c-58486746

https://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2014/10/baseball-america-grades-addison-russell-ranks-kyle-schwarber-news-cubs-farm.php

[DJ's left nut]

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

You're going to claim that Addison Russell was the #3(ish) prospect in baseball on the strength of his defensive prowess?

FFS - you can't even concede that any part of your precious 'young core' has been a disappointment. Russell's had one of the worst 'performance vs.pedigree' ratios in the game over the last 3 years.

People absolutely believed Russell would be a premier hitter - he just hasn't been since he got into your system.

[jd1020]

A "gap power" hitter that was traded because the A's didn't believe it would translate and so far they were right.

He's still only 24 but I dont think you'll ever hope for more than average from Russell.

[jd1020]

You're going to claim that Addison Russell was the #3(ish) prospect in baseball on the strength of his defensive prowess?

FFS - you can't even concede that any part of your precious 'young core' has been a disappointment. Russell's had one of the worst 'performance vs.pedigree' ratios on the game over the last 3 years.

People absolutely believed Russell would be a premier hitter - he just hasn't been since he got into your system.

Are you obtuse?

Why would I be all about trading Russell if I didn't believe he's been a "disappointment"?

Russell and Ian Happ are the only 2 disappointments. I don't really blame Ian Happ, though. He had no business even making it to the majors in the Cubs organization. Everyone else has met or exceeded expectations.

[DJ's left nut]

Are you obtuse?

Why would I be all about trading Russell if I didn't believe he's been a "disappointment"?

Says the guy who couldn't remain logically consistent for a 2 post span...

How can you say he's been a disappointment if his glove is so sterling and he " was never hyped as a hitter. Ever."?

If all he was supposed to be was Jose Iglesias, then he's right on track, right?

I'm not the one that overplayed my hand here...

[jd1020]

ROFL

Russell was a guy that was suppose to get you stellar defense and hit for average with maybe 10-15 HR's a year. That was his expectations. He's given you the defense with a bit of an issue when it comes to throwing errors but he's never reached that average hitter status.

So you are asking why he's been a disappointment? Because he's never reached being an average hitter. It's been 4 years now with no signs of improvement.

Does that work for you, sunshine?

On the vast majority of teams you could live with what Russell gives you. But the Cubs can just as easily move Baez to SS and put Ben Zobrist/Ian Happ/David Bote/Tommy La Stella at 2nd.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ROFL

Russell was a guy that was suppose to get you stellar defense and hit for average with maybe 10-15 HR's a year. That was his expectations. He's given you the defense with a bit of an issue when it comes to throwing errors but he's never reached that average hitter status.

So you are asking why he's been a disappointment? Because he's never reached being an average hitter. It's been 4 years now with no signs of improvement.

Does that work for you, sunshine?

On the vast majority of teams you could live with what Russell gives you. But the Cubs can just as easily move Baez to SS and put Ben Zobrist/Ian Happ/David Bote/Tommy La Stella at 2nd.

Must be why those scouting reports you're ignoring keep referencing his power and hit tool as his calling cards....

['Hamas' Jenkins]

"I project hitting for average to be Russell's second most dominant tool, behind only his raw power."

"Hitting: Russell has a quiet setup and advanced approach with a good idea of the strike zone. Russell has the ability to hit to all fields with power. Tremendous bat speed, great hands with a short, compact swing. Russell will chase, especially breaking balls out of the zone. The potential is there for Russell to hit .300 in the majors.

Power: Shows raw power in batting practice. Russell has the speed and gap power to produce doubles and triples. Has the potential to hit 20-30 home runs in a 600-at bat season. Projects to be a run producer in the majors."

[jd1020]

Must be why those scouting reports you're ignoring keep referencing his power and hit tool as his calling cards....

Not ignoring anything.

You can pull up all the scouting reports you want. Most all of them will limit him to gap power while suggesting he's going to hit 25 HRs a year (Ok?). Then if you keep looking you start reading about questions he had at the plate with discipline and struggling to hit offspeed pitches against superior competition which led to questions of whether or not he had sufficient pure hitting ability to translate at the MLB level.

Which is why the A's made the trade and "would do it again."

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Not ignoring anything.

You can pull up all the scouting reports you want. Most all of them will limit him to gap power while suggesting he's going to hit 25 HRs a year (Ok?). Then if you keep looking you start reading about questions he had at the plate with discipline and struggling to hit offspeed pitches against superior competition which led to questions of whether or not he had sufficient pure hitting ability to translate at the MLB level.

Which is why the A's made the trade and "would do it again."

"Never hyped as a hitter."

Reports list his hit took and power as calling cards.

No bullshit here....

[jd1020]

"Never hyped as a hitter."

Reports list his hit took and power as calling cards.

No bullshit here....

Keep holding on to batting practice scouting reports.

[BigRedChief]

Really? Ever?

http://mlbtopprospects.com/2014/12/addison-russell-bio/

https://www.mlb.com/news/bernie-pleskoff-as-prospect-addison-russell-has-tools-to-be-shortstop/c-58486746

https://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2014/10/baseball-america-grades-addison-russell-ranks-kyle-schwarber-news-cubs-farm.phpyeah JD, WTF? Russell was supposed to be Trout level, top 5 prospects in baseball. And now he’s a defensive only SS?

Man you move the goal posts more than any fan I can remember.:facepalm:

[jd1020]

When the hell was Russell suppose to be Mike Trout?

[BigRedChief]

You are focused on this year for the Cardinals, Understandably so. We are not a real threat to your division dominance this year. Next year, that story isn't set yet.

One thing you have ignored with your posts is the value of our young players has jumped up significantly.
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Bader
O'Neill
Flaherty


Mikolas this off season will have trade value too

Have all increased their trade value, agree? Expendable trade value put together with our surplus OF and Kelly = A potential great player in 2018.

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.I have said before his call up to the majors that Flaherty can win a CY Young someday. You don’t trade that upside.

None of those others are top shelf players. As was discussed earlier, we need to be looking for $’s and trading our quarters. In this case above, most were dimes and now are quarters, maybe. That was my point. We get a club that has one great piece but need help in a lot of areas, that’s who would be interested in our quarters for their $.

[BigRedChief]

When the hell was Russell suppose to be Mike Trout?Trout level, a top 5 player and prospect. No one thought Trout would be Trout or they wouldn’t have picked him at 23.

Quit trying to move the goalposts. Russell has underperformed what “most” knowledgeable and just casual fans thought he would be.

[jd1020]

Trout level, a top 5 player and prospect.

Quit trying to move the goalposts. Russell has underperformed what “most” knowledgeable and just casual fans thought he would be.

There is a big difference between Trout level and top 5 prospect. You realize Trout was drafted when he was 17 years old, right?

Trout entered MLB at age 19. You know who else entered the league at 19? Manny Machado, Bryce Harper, Alex Rodriguez... generational talent level players.

Russell had all of like 70 something games of at least AA ball experience and there were some worrying signs to his game at that level before being called up to the majors. Every one was surprised when he was called up because no one thought he was ready. Most people didn't think he would be in the majors until maybe roster expansion time or the following year. Ever since he was called up its been trying to get his bat up to speed for MLB pitching. It hasn't caught up yet. He's been defense first from day 1.

[VAChief]

Are you obtuse?

.

Oh the irony.:rolleyes:

[BigRedChief]

Viva le Birdos article on Matheny failure:
The answer to failure, in Matheny’s worldview, was always to just believe harder. Matt Adams can’t hit left-handed pitching, you say? Well first off, that’s profoundly insulting to my guy, and yes he can. What evidence do I have? I don’t need evidence, you nerd/reporter/satanist/whatever; I have belief! I believe Matt Adams is good, and should play every day, and so it will be.

Baseball is a game of failure, as they say. Managing that failure is perhaps the most important aspect of the game, of the job. Players have to fail, and fail, and fail again, 60% of the time or more, and still go right back up to the plate with confidence they can get the job done, even when we have an overwhelming body of evidence telling us that no, in all likelihood, you won’t. You’re probably going to fail. Because you usually do.

Managers have to understand that failure, and figure out how to get around it, how to counsel their charges through it, and how to minimise the likelihood it happens again. Managers have to understand that failure is not the same as being a failure, and that understanding how often players fail is not the same as condemning them. Front office people, general managers and the like, have to understand failure is the null state of the game, and look past that, past the limitations, and ask that all-important question of how can this player help us. Limitations are not the same as failure, but rather opportunities to fit the puzzle together in ever-tighter, more productive ways.

When you view the world the way Mike Matheny seemed to, I’m not sure you can succeed in a game like baseball. When you write a manifesto telling parents essentially to shut up, never question your authority or your knowledge, and just trust that you know what’s best at all times, I don’t think you’re cut out for a job like this. A worldview based on blind faith, and just believing harder every time someone questions your beliefs, is going to lead to Matt Adams hitting against lefties over and over again, when that’s not what he’s good at, and Kolten Wong sitting on the bench, marinating in his own frustrations, for reasons no one is ever quite sure of.

All of this is really just a very long-winded way of saying that I’ve been thinking a lot about the state of the Cardinals, and where they are, and where they’re going. And more than anything, trying to figure out whether the future really is so much brighter now than it was just a couple months ago.

I think it is. I really do. And that leads me to another question, one which I have not yet been able to answer for myself in any sort of satisfactory way: why did it take so long for the Cardinals to see what we all saw?

I wish I could answer that. I’ve heard things, things about how much certain people in the organisation liked Matheny, largely for reasons that had nothing to do with baseball, and how he was very much a blind spot for some of those people. But I’m not sure that really satisfies me. An organisation that did so much to make the game smarter over the past fifteen years being so blind, so stubborn, so...dumb about their choice of manager feels almost inconceivable to me. I really don’t know how it happened. Why it continued to happen for so long.

Then again, maybe just believing harder in something, thinking that if you close your eyes hard enough and believe things will get better then they certainly will, wasn’t a problem confined to the dugout.

Things seem better now. We should focus on that.

[Prison Bitch]

Whatever happened to that crazed Cubbie on here who bragged that they got a steal on Yu Darvish? Bwahahahha

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Whatever happened to that crazed Cubbie on here who bragged that they got a steal on Yu Darvish? Bwahahahha

It went the way of Es co bar cheesy fan made highlight reels lulz

[BigRedChief]

I thought the Cubs had an easy schedule the rest of the way. Maybe they should be concerned........just a little :hmmm:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From STLToday


The Cardinals and Cubs each play nine more series before the Cubs host the Cardinals for the regular-season finale at Wrigley Field.

For the Cardinals, seven of those nine series come against teams that have more second-half series losses than wins. And five of those seven series will be played at Busch Stadium, where the Cardinals own the NL’s best home winning percentage (.714) since the break.

For the Cubs, only four of their nine series will be played against teams that, as of Monday, had more second-half series losses than wins. And just two of those four series will be played at Wrigley Field, where the Cubs were 42-23 entering Monday night’s game against the Mets.

The Cubs have a cushion, and they are hot once again. The Cardinals can’t afford to let their focus stray up north just yet. They must continue their trajectory to make the finale a compelling one.

[Swanman]

I thought the Cubs had an easy schedule the rest of the way. Maybe they should be concerned........just a little :hmmm:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From STLToday


The Cardinals and Cubs each play nine more series before the Cubs host the Cardinals for the regular-season finale at Wrigley Field.

For the Cardinals, seven of those nine series come against teams that have more second-half series losses than wins. And five of those seven series will be played at Busch Stadium, where the Cardinals own the NL’s best home winning percentage (.714) since the break.

For the Cubs, only four of their nine series will be played against teams that, as of Monday, had more second-half series losses than wins. And just two of those four series will be played at Wrigley Field, where the Cubs were 42-23 entering Monday night’s game against the Mets.

The Cubs have a cushion, and they are hot once again. The Cardinals can’t afford to let their focus stray up north just yet. They must continue their trajectory to make the finale a compelling one.

The Cardinals got through a pretty rough stretch of games with an amazing record and won every series in that span. There is a legit fear that they will let down once they start playing losing teams but 1) the team has an actual manager now and 2) the players seem to be having a blast and both of those things help guard against a letdown.

The Cubs now enter a tougher stretch of games after their recent stretch of cupcakes. They also have to play something like 23 days in a row, which is a big deal at this point in the season. It's crazy to think, but we will see where the Cards stand in the race after this coming week. With the last 3 games against the Cubs to end the season, anything can happen if the Cards keep playing well.

[DJ's left nut]

The Cardinals got through a pretty rough stretch of games with an amazing record and won every series in that span. There is a legit fear that they will let down once they start playing losing teams but 1) the team has an actual manager now and 2) the players seem to be having a blast and both of those things help guard against a letdown.

The Cubs now enter a tougher stretch of games after their recent stretch of cupcakes. They also have to play something like 23 days in a row, which is a big deal at this point in the season. It's crazy to think, but we will see where the Cards stand in the race after this coming week. With the last 3 games against the Cubs to end the season, anything can happen if the Cards keep playing well.

Yeah, the Cards took just a little starch out of their tough schedule by cranking through a long series of tough opponents.

Now they need to keep the pedal down and not let up. A little regression is coming either way, but win 4 of 6 against the Pirates and Reds and you are holding serve nicely. Even 3-3 wouldn't be disastrous if it teaches them a bit of a lesson about coming up for air.

I hope they realize that they left themselves with no net by playing like balls through the first 95 games or so of the season. I think they probably do.

[O.city]

Yeah, the Cards took just a little starch out of their tough schedule by cranking through a long series of tough opponents.

Now they need to keep the pedal down and not let up. A little regression is coming either way, but win 4 of 6 against the Pirates and Reds and you are holding serve nicely. Even 3-3 wouldn't be disastrous if it teaches them a bit of a lesson about coming up for air.

I hope they realize that they left themselves with no net by playing like balls through the first 95 games or so of the season. I think they probably do.

They need a 6 game sweep here. Keep the hammer down.

"Mitch HOlthus".

[Pasta Little Brioni]

JD is scurred as all hell ROFL pissing pants level

[jd1020]

JD is scurred as all hell ROFL pissing pants level

Seriously scurred.

The Cubs are 6-0 since the entire NL decided to pass on Daniel Murphy and Kris Bryant just started his rehab assignment in Iowa.

I'm really not sure what will calm my nerves during this trying time. I guess I'll just have to live with knowing Mo will use this run of overachieving to stay the course.

[Frazod]

Seriously scurred.

The Cubs are 6-0 since the entire NL decided to pass on Daniel Murphy and Kris Bryant just started his rehab assignment in Iowa.

I'm really not sure what will calm my nerves during this trying time. I guess I'll just have to live with knowing Mo will use this run of overachieving to stay the course.

Yes, tough competition - the Reds and the Mets at home. We should just award you ladies the WS trophy now! :whackit:

[jd1020]

Yes, tough competition - the Reds and the Mets at home. We should just award you ladies the WS trophy now! :whackit:

On the surface its not tough competition but the Reds still have the 3rd best offense in the NL and the Cubs starters gave up only 4 runs in a 4 game series against them and the offense is still scoring against guys like Syndergaard.

We'll see what they do against deGrom tonight.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

On the surface its not tough competition but the Reds still have the 3rd best offense in the NL and the Cubs starters gave up only 4 runs in a 4 game series against them and the offense is still scoring against guys like Syndergaard.

We'll see what they do against deGrom tonight.

Park adjustment actually shows that the Reds have the 6th best offense in the NL, behind the Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, Cardinals, and Nationals.

[jd1020]

Park adjustment actually shows that the Reds have the 6th best offense in the NL, behind the Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, Cardinals, and Nationals.

Wherever they stand they still field a good offense and its nice to see the Cubs pitchers producing what they looked like on paper to start the season. They still have the 3rd highest avg and 2nd OBP in the NL with like 5 guys in their lineup with a .800+ OPS.

I still worry about Lester and Quintana, though. They both still have that one inning that just ruins everything.

[DJ's left nut]

Cardinals beat the Nationals and Dodgers: "Big deal, it's just the Nationals and Dodgers"
Cubs beat the Reds and Mets: "Hey, the Reds are actually pretty good!"

He's not scared - he's just a homer.

[jd1020]

It was Nationals and Brewers.

I said if the Cardinals kept winning against the Dodgers and Rockies I would be impressed.

They are still overachieving, though. Unless you really want to believe Wong is a .900 OPS hitter and Tyler O'Neill is going to carry a 800+ OPS while striking out 40% of the time with what was a .450 BABIP.

About the only Cardinal I expect to continue hitting near where they have been on this streak is maybe Harrison Bader with a slight dip in his BABIP.

And I never said the Reds were good. I said they have a good offense, which they do, and the Cubs have been under performing all year with their starting pitchers and they shut down their offense for the entire series. Reading comprehension.

[BigRedChief]

I understand not picking up Murphy. I wasn't for it because of the possibility of messing up the mojo by adding an unfamiliar person into the locker room.

Its my understanding of the rules that we could have placed a claim on Murphy and blocked the Cubs from getting him but not be obligated to put him on your team, correct?


So....... has anyone heard from Mo on why he let Murphy go to the Cubs?

[DJ's left nut]

I understand not picking up Murphy. I wasn't for it because of getting our mojo messed up by adding an unfamiliar person into the locker room. Its my understanding of the rules that we could have placed a claim on Murphy and blocked the Cubs from getting him but not be obligated to put him on your team, correct?


So....... has anyone heard from Mo on why he let Murphy go to the Cubs?

He was on revocable trade waivers. The Nats theoretically could have just said 'okay, take him' and he'd have been a Cardinal had they put a claim in.

It happened to the Padres years ago with, I believe, Randy Jones. They were simply trying to put a block on, the team that had him said 'Okay, he's all yours' and the Padres got stuck with a guy they really didn't want at all.

But the idea that he'd have hurt the lockerroom is just stupid. The first time he went up there and worked a 9 pitch AB before doubling a run in, whatever 'unfamiliarity' they felt with a hard-working, long-time veteran and professional would have ceased.

It was laziness from Moe. And if it WAS concern over the lockerroom, that's just chickenshit and is somehow even worse.

[Mecca]

That waiver thing happened with Alex Rios too, the Blue Jays put him on waivers and the White Sox claimed him and the Jays reaction was "awesome take his 50 million dollar contract".

[BigRedChief]

He was on revocable trade waivers. The Nats theoretically could have just said 'okay, take him' and he'd have been a Cardinal had they put a claim in.

It happened to the Padres years ago with, I believe, Randy Jones. They were simply trying to put a block on, the team that had him said 'Okay, he's all yours' and the Padres got stuck with a guy they really didn't want at all.

But the idea that he'd have hurt the lockerroom is just stupid. The first time he went up there and worked a 9 pitch AB before doubling a run in, whatever 'unfamiliarity' they felt with a hard-working, long-time veteran and professional would have ceased.

It was laziness from Moe. And if it WAS concern over the lockerroom, that's just chickenshit and is somehow even worse.okay, so I could see Mo being scared of getting stuck with Murphy. He is a risk adverse GM as I can remember. To the detriment of the team.


You dont know how the chemistry would have been affected. You "think" it would be "this" based on the evidence of past performance and personality. And I'd agree, seemed like a low % guy that would cause an issue in the locker room. However.............. ya never know.


We are winning not because of adding top shelf talent but team chemistry. Teams, especially baseball teams get on winning runs so many times because of team chemistry. 2011 we were flailing around and we got this infusion of bullpen guys that meshed with the current players and went on a run. Boston in 2004 etc. etc.

[DJ's left nut]

It was Nationals and Brewers.

I said if the Cardinals kept winning against the Dodgers and Rockies I would be impressed.

They are still overachieving, though. Unless you really want to believe Wong is a .900 OPS hitter and Tyler O'Neill is going to carry a 800+ OPS while striking out 40% of the time with what was a .450 BABIP.

About the only Cardinal I expect to continue hitting near where they have been on this streak is maybe Harrison Bader with a slight dip in his BABIP.

And I never said the Reds were good. I said they have a good offense, which they do, and the Cubs have been under performing all year with their starting pitchers and they shut down their offense for the entire series. Reading comprehension.

If you look at their underlying numbers, their record over the course of the season is almost exactly what it's supposed to be. It's not just Pythagorean, but weighted runs against, etc...

Pretty much every model that looks at how they've performed statistically over the course of the season says that the Cardinals should be roughly 14-16 games over .500 right now. And yes, that includes recent hot stretches from guys like Wong, but it also includes his cold streaks.

It includes an .800 OPS from O'Neill, but it also includes 4 months of complete ass from Fowler. And while O'Neill may not be this good going forward (assuming that a 23 yr old kid with serious prospect pedigree has no room for growth is a fools errand, but I digress), he doesn't have to be. He simply has to be as good as the combination of what we've gotten from him and Fowler over the first 130 games or so.

Matt Carpenter will not stay that hot, but of late Gyorko has found his groove after a cold first 3 months to supplement him. Jose Martinez has found OF more to his liking defensively so we can keep his bat in there now as well.

You're putting forth a series of stipulations that would make the Cardinals a 105 win team. That's how they've played for the month in question but that's not the mark they need now; they've done that to get themselves back to level ground. Now they can simply play to their regular talent level which the whole season, inclusive of fits and starts, says is roughly a 90 win team.

That'll play. And if you get to October with that and a hot rotation, things can get interesting in a hurry.

[DJ's left nut]

Bob Nightengale is a stupid asshole who never gets a thing right but just makes shit up as he goes.

However, the Cardinals announced a 4p presser and Nightengale 'confirms' its to remove Shildt's interim tag and announce an extension.

He's probably right by default because that's the only sensible reason to announce a presser on August 28 and what the hell else could Shildt do to get the tag removed? But I refuse to give him any credit for it.

Because Nightengale can blow me.

[DJ's left nut]

okay, so I could see Mo being scared of getting stuck with Murphy. He is a risk adverse GM as I can remember. To the detriment of the team.


You dont know how the chemistry would have been affected. You "think" it would be "this" based on the evidence of past performance and personality. And I'd agree, seemed like a low % guy that would cause an issue in the locker room. However.............. ya never know.


We are winning not because of adding top shelf talent but team chemistry. Teams, especially baseball teams get on winning runs so many times because of team chemistry. 2011 we were flailing around and we got this infusion of bullpen guys that meshed with the current players and went on a run. Boston in 2004 etc. etc.

Boston in 2004 had Manny, Ortiz, Schilling and Pedro. Varitek put up an .870 OPS and Damon had arguably the best year of a near HoF career.

Let's pump the brakes on the "Boston was a plucky underdog that won with chemistry' conversation. Boston was incredibly talented and won because Julian Taverez piped a cockshot to Mark Bellhorn.

The 2011 squad had Pujols, Berkman, Holliday and Molina along with Chris Carpenter knowing it was his last ride and laying it all on the line. There was a ton of talent on that squad as well.

Adding more talent is only a mistake if the talent in question is Jonathan Papelbon or some other miscreant with a history of being a shitheel. Daniel Murphy is not that shitheel. He's a hardnosed ballplayer who's won in October and who's demonstrated a wealth of skills offensively that would've helped this team.

If Mozeliak didn't put a claim in due to concern over the clubhouse, then he'd better by God be right. Because if the extent of his backbone was firing a clearly inept field manager, then JD will be right and the Cardinals are poised to be an pretty decent also-ran for the next 1/2 decade or more.

[BigRedChief]

Bob Nightengale is a stupid asshole who never gets a thing right but just makes shit up as he goes.

However, the Cardinals announced a 4p presser and Nightengale 'confirms' its to remove Shildt's interim tag and announce an extension.

He's probably right by default because that's the only sensible reason to announce a presser on August 28 and what the hell else could Shildt do to get the tag removed? But I refuse to give him any credit for it.

Because Nightengale can blow me.<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> set to announce a three-year deal with Mike Shildt as manager, per multiples sources. Gone goes the interim tag. News posted here, shortly: <a href="https://t.co/TmstuRRBVT">https://t.co/TmstuRRBVT</a> <a href="https://t.co/TmstuRRBVT">https://t.co/TmstuRRBVT</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLB?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLB</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1034521965959278593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DJ's left nut]

Congrats to Bob for finally guessing right.

The presser was announced about a half hour before his tweet. He just shotgunned more shit at the wall via basic deduction.

[bdj23]

Bob Nightengale is a stupid asshole who never gets a thing right but just makes shit up as he goes.

However, the Cardinals announced a 4p presser and Nightengale 'confirms' its to remove Shildt's interim tag and announce an extension.

He's probably right by default because that's the only sensible reason to announce a presser on August 28 and what the hell else could Shildt do to get the tag removed? But I refuse to give him any credit for it.

Because Nightengale can blow me.

ROFL

Congrats to Shildt though.

[BigRedChief]

Congrats to Bob for finally guessing right.

The presser was announced about a half hour before his tweet. He just shotgunned more shit at the wall via basic deduction.

ROFL

Congrats to Shildt though.Yeah putting aside the trashing of Nightengale(which is fully approved by me), I like and expected this move. It's Mo who found the guy, gave him a shot, promoted and groomed Schildt. With this start and the players going to him and Dewitt telling them to remove the intermin tag made this inevitable.

Manager money ain't shit anymore. His daily meetings and schtick gets old, they can move on without now paying two managers to not manage while paying a 3rd manager.

I've heard no reason to not give him the job.


Dewitt on whats right with the Cardinals. Bernie on the Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/492813/2018/08/28/redbird-reset-owner-bill-dewitt-jr-speaks-up-about-what-has-gone-right-for-cardinals/

[BigRedChief]

2 year deal, not three.

[Jewish Rabbi]

It was Nationals and Brewers.

I said if the Cardinals kept winning against the Dodgers and Rockies I would be impressed.

They are still overachieving, though.

:hmmm:

[Marco Polo]

I’m fine with this move. Sounds like he has been groomed. Hope he can embrace this long term and stay away from Matheny’s style.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigRedChief]

DJ, Hamas and the other baseball nerds, is this possible?

Listened to two Cardinal podcasts this afternoon. Basic premise is that Ozuna still has value. You trade him with your surplus position players and pitching to get a top offensive prospect. Possible?

Offer Harper $300-$350 million in day one of FA. Any chance of that happening than a couple of months ago?

Or are these podcasters talking out their ass?

[VAChief]

DJ, Hamas and the other baseball nerds, is this possible?

Listened to two Cardinal podcasts this afternoon. Basic premise is that Ozuna still has value. You trade him with your surplus position players and pitching to get a top offensive prospect. Possible?

Offer Harper $300-$350 million in day one of FA. Any chance of that happening than a couple of months ago?

Or are these podcasters talking out their ass?

Who are these surplus position players? What pitchers? I don’t see great value in Ozuna unless he comes back and finishes strong with more consistent power, then yes I think some American League teams may have some interest where if his arm starts to fall off again at least he could DH.

They can certainly put an attractive package together with the pitching they have. I’m not sure we will ever be able to pull off a Kent Bottenfield for Edmonds type trade again with all the analytics available, but there are still some stupid front office guys out there.

[VAChief]

Ray Ray looks like he could still play. Talented, hard nosed player on some pretty shitty teams.

[BigRedChief]

Who are these surplus position players? What pitchers? I don’t see great value in Ozuna unless he comes back and finishes strong with more consistent power, then yes I think some American League teams may have some interest where if his arm starts to fall off again at least he could DH.

They can certainly put an attractive package together with the pitching they have. I’m not sure we will ever be able to pull off a Kent Bottenfield for Edmonds type trade again with all the analytics available, but there are still some stupid front office guys out there.they didn’t say which pitcher. Just listed off our young pitchers.

Thought it was weird that two podcasts were promoting the same thing.

Every one of these podcasts also assume that Fowler is gone. If so, glad to see Dewitt write off $50 million. But, wtf is he supposed to do? He plays Fowler next year it’s only about the money and not winning.

[Marcellus]

Cards rolling damn well again tonight.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'll say it again: Hicks is terrifying.

[BigRedChief]

I'll say it again: Hicks is terrifying.he needs to be throwing more off speed stuff. Hitters can time 100 mph fastballs these days.

[DJ's left nut]

he needs to be throwing more off speed stuff. Hitters can time 100 mph fastballs these days.

Can't throw offspeed when you're always behind 2-0.

That's why it's so critical for him to throw first pitch strikes - it allows him to get to breaking ball counts. If he can't get ahead, he has to just hump heaters up there and they just look to serve them up the middle and oppo.

[bdj23]

I'll take an 18 inning 2-1 Cubs loss please.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Is Flaherty August pitcher of the month? He has to be in consideration. 4-0 with a 1.08 ERA and 33 strikeouts.

[jd1020]

Is Flaherty August pitcher of the month? He has to be in consideration. 4-0 with a 1.08 ERA and 33 strikeouts.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/ap/2018/08/01/f02e058df6924b12ab64b5c27f65772d.jpg?itok=Zp1Eqt6N

[bdj23]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/ap/2018/08/01/f02e058df6924b12ab64b5c27f65772d.jpg?itok=Zp1Eqt6N

Fuck off

[BigRedChief]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/ap/2018/08/01/f02e058df6924b12ab64b5c27f65772d.jpg?itok=Zp1Eqt6NScab :harumph:

[jd1020]

**** off

Only twice have pitchers had a month better than Cole Hamels had since Arrieta was a god in 2015, Chris Sale last month and Jordan Zimmerman in 2016.

[DJ's left nut]

Only twice have pitchers had a month better than Cole Hamels had since Arrieta was a god in 2015, Chris Sale last month and Jordan Zimmerman in 2016.

So as it turns out, Hamels was just jaking it for $23 million/season the last 2 years.

Gotta imagine the Rangers are pretty excited to see how few fucks he gave while he was cashing their checks...

[jd1020]

He might get to cash one more if the Cubs choose not to pick up his $20M option. Rangers are on the hook for his buyout of $6M.

I dont suspect the Cubs will pick up the option. They would probably pull some John Lackey shit and sign him to a 2 year deal for less AAV.

[DJ's left nut]

He might get to cash one more if the Cubs choose not to pick up his $20M option. Rangers are on the hook for his buyout of $6M.

I dont suspect the Cubs will pick up the option. They would probably pull some John Lackey shit and sign him to a 2 year deal for less AAV.

I'm sure they will.

Give him a little wink/nod, decline the option only so they can get that $6 million check from the Rangers and then extend him for 2/$30. It's effectively a 1/$13 million extension for him after factoring in the $6 million buyout and for the Cubs they'd end up getting him for less than they'd otherwise have to pay.

You'd better hope he decides not to go full Ranger for you guys, in that case. As we've seen a few times over his career, when Cole just doesn't feel like pitching...he won't.

[jd1020]

I'll take no fucks given Cole Hamels over 8 walks per 9 Tyler Chatwood any day.

[O.city]

So anyway the Cards can end up with Donaldson?

[bdj23]

So anyway the Cards can end up with Donaldson?

That's a lot of teams to get through to make it to STL.

[DJ's left nut]

That's a lot of teams to get through to make it to STL.

Yeah but most of them have no use for a 3b. And if Donaldson has a no-trade, he can kill a waiver claim for a team that he doesn't think will give him playing time.

If the Yankees don't trust Andujar or the Red Sox worry about Devers injury, I could see them putting a claim in. I don't see anyone else as a likely fit though.

Maybe we should've claimed that Daniel Murphy fella.

Jesus that was stupid.

[Marco Polo]

If they didn't want Murphy because of potential clubhouse issues (he was outspoken against LGBT), they won't want Donaldson- especially at the risk he isn't healed.

[bdj23]

Yeah but most of them have no use for a 3b. And if Donaldson has a no-trade, he can kill a waiver claim for a team that he doesn't think will give him playing time.

If the Yankees don't trust Andujar or the Red Sox worry about Devers injury, I could see them putting a claim in. I don't see anyone else as a likely fit though.

Maybe we should've claimed that Daniel Murphy fella.

Jesus that was stupid.

I dont think he gets thru Boston.

[bdj23]

If they didn't want Murphy because of potential clubhouse issues (he was outspoken against LGBT), they won't want Donaldson- especially at the risk he isn't healed.

I just googled "Daniel Murphy" and got an article with a bunch of blue checkmark twitter cucks bitching about him not bowing at the lgbt altar. :rolleyes:

I had no idea he even said anything about gay people

Twitter was a mistake

[BigRedChief]

If they didn't want Murphy because of potential clubhouse issues (he was outspoken against LGBT), they won't want Donaldson- especially at the risk he isn't healed.I didn't know about his LGBT views.

4.5% of adults in the USA are gay. That average = one player in each dugout is gay. Obviously they are not "out" but could possibly make up a public grudge to express their displeasure if a realistic one not tied to his hidden but very personal LGBT views presents itself. Or some straight players sister, aunt, nephew etc. are gay and they are cool with it and they hear stories of them being treated differently?

Politics and religion are landmines on a team full of alpha males. They have a right to their opinion and express it. The problem is others on the team and fans can also express their opinion on the opposing side. And team chemistry is all fucked up.

[DJ's left nut]

Read his quotes, not just some SJW bitching about them. They're incredibly benign and nothing more than a person expressing his opinion while refusing to outwardly castigate someone for having their own. The hand-wringing over them is insane - take a single sentence out and they don't look great but read the entire interview and he's just a person of faith, little more.

As for Donaldson - McCutchen cleared waivers w/ $3 million owed and the Yankees playing Shane Robinson in RF right now. Cutch has been healthy and relatively productive this year. Donaldson is owed $4.5 million and has been neither of those things.

I'd be surprised if he's claimed.

[VAChief]

Bought a couple of box seats behind the Cards dugout for the Labor Day game in DC. Scherzer vs. Mikolas. Looking forward to getting my first look at them in person this year.

[Hoover]

I didn't know about his LGBT views.

4.5% of adults in the USA are gay. That average = one player in each dugout is gay. Obviously they are not "out" but could possibly make up a public grudge to express their displeasure if a realistic one not tied to his hidden but very personal LGBT views presents itself. Or some straight players sister, aunt, nephew etc. are gay and they are cool with it and they hear stories of them being treated differently?

Politics and religion are landmines on a team full of alpha males. They have a right to their opinion and express it. The problem is others on the team and fans can also express their opinion on the opposing side. And team chemistry is all fucked up.
Everything I've read about the deal with Murphy is that while he stated his personal views, he has also been very tolerant. This notion that we all have to agree on the practice of homosexuality has gotten out of hand. I mean my gosh, is the local blood bank anti-gay because they ask men if they have ever had gay sex in their lifetimes.

Frankly, I wish more people were like Murphy - free to voice their on beliefs, but tolerant of those who do otherwise.

[Marco Polo]

Let's not turn this into political- just sharing what I read.

[scho63]

Once again my Pirates have no depth, no real superstars as of today and have run out of gas at the 3/4 pole of the race.

While I'm no Cards fan, it looks like you guys will be in the playoffs again and hope you get to the World Series as fellow CP members.

Red Sox and Cards would be pretty cool.

[Hoover]

Once again my Pirates have no depth, no real superstars as of today and have run out of gas at the 3/4 pole of the race.

While I'm no Cards fan, it looks like you guys will be in the playoffs again and hope you get to the World Series as fellow CP members.

Red Sox and Cards would be pretty cool.
No it wouldn't, it would be awful.

Those Red Sox bats would feast off of the crap SP's and bullpen of the Cards.

[BigRedChief]

Let's not turn this into political- just sharing what I read.yeah this is a baseball thread. Let's keep it that way, including me.

[BigRedChief]

No it wouldn't, it would be awful.

Those Red Sox bats would feast off of the crap SP's and bullpen of the Cards.To be honest, whoever comes out of the AL is probably going to smoke whoever comes out of the NL.

[bdj23]

Once again my Pirates have no depth, no real superstars as of today and have run out of gas at the 3/4 pole of the race.

While I'm no Cards fan, it looks like you guys will be in the playoffs again and hope you get to the World Series as fellow CP members.

Red Sox and Cards would be pretty cool.

I couldn't take losing another World Series to those insufferable d-bags.

[Marcellus]

Just heard a national radio show talking about Shildt and Matheny basically saying Matheny was a good manager and they don't know what happened with him and the team and that the Cards should have waited to extend Shildt because he isn't the main reason for the turn around, the roster turnover and the firing of Mabry is .

:facepalm:

[Frazod]

Cubs just surrendered a grand slam to the Mets in the first inning. Got to watch that in a lunchroom full of Cub fans. LMAO

[Marco Polo]

Bought a couple of box seats behind the Cards dugout for the Labor Day game in DC. Scherzer vs. Mikolas. Looking forward to getting my first look at them in person this year.

How much did you pay? I'll be there too. Looking at tickets on StubHub. Saw it might rain though.

[DJ's left nut]

Just heard a national radio show talking about Shildt and Matheny basically saying Matheny was a good manager and they don't know what happened with him and the team and that the Cards should have waited to extend Shildt because he isn't the main reason for the turn around, the roster turnover and the firing of Mabry is .

:facepalm:

I have been floored by how lost in the woods the national media has been w/r/t to Matheny and the Cardinals.

They truly had/have no idea the impact he had on the franchise. They genuinely believe he's a good manager and that he got a bum deal.

Blows my mind.

[BigRedChief]

Just heard a national radio show talking about Shildt and Matheny basically saying Matheny was a good manager and they don't know what happened with him and the team and that the Cards should have waited to extend Shildt because he isn't the main reason for the turn around, the roster turnover and the firing of Mabry is .

:facepalm:

I have been floored by how lost in the woods the national media has been w/r/t to Matheny and the Cardinals.

They truly had/have no idea the impact he had on the franchise. They genuinely believe he's a good manager and that he got a bum deal.

Blows my mind.yeah I've heard some comments like these from national TV guys. WTF? Clueless indeed.

[O.city]

Gyorko to DL.

Come on down Josh.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I have been floored by how lost in the woods the national media has been w/r/t to Matheny and the Cardinals.

They truly had/have no idea the impact he had on the franchise. They genuinely believe he's a good manager and that he got a bum deal.

Blows my mind.

Decent looking guy who didn't say anything inflammatory to the national media and was in the dugout when some good teams were winning despite him.

Hell, Joe Torre got in the HOF on the strength of Stick Mitchell's farm system and Don Zimmer telling him when to pull his head from his ass, and I saw him do the single most braindead thing I've ever seen from a manager as late as 2008.

[BigRedChief]

Gyorko to DL.

Come on down Josh.
Ozuna
Wong
Gyrko

Thats a serious hit.

[DJ's left nut]

Ozuna
Wong
Gyrko

Thats a serious hit.

And we're finally getting a little threadbare to boot.

Garcia played a sound defensive ballgame yesterday but nothing exceptional. Munoz is a much better hitter but can't play D over at 2b worth a damn.

I actually like Wisdom but during this run its important not to overlook just how how Jedd has been. He's been a damn good hitter, even against righties, over the last 30 days or so.

Losing Ozuna is frustrating but probably doesn't hurt while TON is hitting. It'll hurt more when O'Neill hits a long cold-spell (his approach says he will) but for right now we can shrug that off.

But both Wong and Gyorko are gonna start hitting us in the standings soon enough. Those are tough losses and even more worrisome is that neither of those guys are natural hitters. They take time to find their form and 10 days off may take another 10 days to get them swinging well again (and Jedd simply may not get hot again; he's notoriously streaky).

It's that time of year - lots of teams get these nagging injuries at this point in the season and the Cardinals depth makes them better situated than most to deal with them. Hell, even if Wisdom isn't the answer, you can put Marp back over at 3b and get Adams some of the reps he could probably use to get his timing back.

But you can only take so many body blows before the combined effect start to sting and we may finally be reaching that tipping point.

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals playoff odds up to 72%. Per Fangraphs.

I’d pitch Flaherty in the WC game, not Mikolas.

[O.city]

And we're finally getting a little threadbare to boot.

Garcia played a sound defensive ballgame yesterday but nothing exceptional. Munoz is a much better hitter but can't play D over at 2b worth a damn.

I actually like Wisdom but during this run its important not to overlook just how how Jedd has been. He's been a damn good hitter, even against righties, over the last 30 days or so.

Losing Ozuna is frustrating but probably doesn't hurt while TON is hitting. It'll hurt more when O'Neill hits a long cold-spell (his approach says he will) but for right now we can shrug that off.

But both Wong and Gyorko are gonna start hitting us in the standings soon enough. Those are tough losses and even more worrisome is that neither of those guys are natural hitters. They take time to find their form and 10 days off may take another 10 days to get them swinging well again (and Jedd simply may not get hot again; he's notoriously streaky).

It's that time of year - lots of teams get these nagging injuries at this point in the season and the Cardinals depth makes them better situated than most to deal with them. Hell, even if Wisdom isn't the answer, you can put Marp back over at 3b and get Adams some of the reps he could probably use to get his timing back.

But you can only take so many body blows before the combined effect start to sting and we may finally be reaching that tipping point.

That's why I think Donaldson would make sense if they can make it work and if he would actually be healthy.

I don't know that they can afford or would want to. But if you could add him, and have everyone come back healthy, that's having Gyorko and Adams on the bench if/when the playoffs come.

[BigRedChief]

And we're finally getting a little threadbare to boot.

Garcia played a sound defensive ballgame yesterday but nothing exceptional. Munoz is a much better hitter but can't play D over at 2b worth a damn.

I actually like Wisdom but during this run its important not to overlook just how how Jedd has been. He's been a damn good hitter, even against righties, over the last 30 days or so.

Losing Ozuna is frustrating but probably doesn't hurt while TON is hitting. It'll hurt more when O'Neill hits a long cold-spell (his approach says he will) but for right now we can shrug that off.

But both Wong and Gyorko are gonna start hitting us in the standings soon enough. Those are tough losses and even more worrisome is that neither of those guys are natural hitters. They take time to find their form and 10 days off may take another 10 days to get them swinging well again (and Jedd simply may not get hot again; he's notoriously streaky).

It's that time of year - lots of teams get these nagging injuries at this point in the season and the Cardinals depth makes them better situated than most to deal with them. Hell, even if Wisdom isn't the answer, you can put Marp back over at 3b and get Adams some of the reps he could probably use to get his timing back.

But you can only take so many body blows before the combined effect start to sting and we may finally be reaching that tipping point.good thing is that the schedule isn’t as difficult as we just went through. Pirates, Reds, nationals, tigers and Pirates.

[DJ's left nut]

That's why I think Donaldson would make sense if they can make it work and if he would actually be healthy.

I don't know that they can afford or would want to. But if you could add him, and have everyone come back healthy, that's having Gyorko and Adams on the bench if/when the playoffs come.

He's being held out today with calf/leg soreness.

Donaldson being healthy is about as likely as Jose Fernandez taking the bump.

Folks - 'healthy Donaldson' doesn't exist anymore. It damn sure isn't going to exist again this season and it's more likely than not that it never exists again. His game is too violent and it won't hold up to basic aging.

[BigRedChief]

He's being held out today with calf/leg soreness.

Donaldson being healthy is about as likely as Jose Fernandez taking the bump.

Folks - 'healthy Donaldson' doesn't exist anymore. It damn sure isn't going to exist again this season and it's more likely than not that it never exists again. His game is too violent and it won't hold up to basic aging.thats what is impressive about what Molina is doing. He was a defensive catcher who hit .220 and people were happy with that. He has turned himself into a .280 hitter. He has 11K+ MLB innings caught on those knees and he has improved his hitting this year. He’s never going back to 2010 Molina defensively but he’s still bringing it every day.

[Frazod]

I have been floored by how lost in the woods the national media has been w/r/t to Matheny and the Cardinals.

They truly had/have no idea the impact he had on the franchise. They genuinely believe he's a good manager and that he got a bum deal.

Blows my mind.

Probably the same idiots who think the Chiefs won't score any points without Alice.

[BigRedChief]

Evaluating pitchers by their W/L records is the most worthless stat I know. Mikolas has an average of 6.1 runs scored with every start. I think your average if not most MLB pitchers will “win” with a 6 run lead.

Just saying

[bdj23]

Whats wrong with Carp?!?!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Whats wrong with Carp?!?!

Stomach bug.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Pirates BABIPing like it's 2013.

[BigRedChief]

It’s a known fact..... you can’t win if you don’t score a run.

[Marcellus]

Looking a little flat tonight. Its going to happen.

[VAChief]

How much did you pay? I'll be there too. Looking at tickets on StubHub. Saw it might rain though.

49 each plus the service fees.

[Marco Polo]

These nights are going to happen- especially with the injuries we have.

[BigRedChief]

These nights are going to happen- especially with the injuries we have.Been the last two nights. O'Neill and Martinez ran into ones but the other bats didn't do much. They have looked kind of flat the last two nights. It's to be expected. You can't play the remaining 30+ games like each night is a WC game. You'll burn out.

I think Munoz has been average over at 3B, not so much at 2B. He hits .280, that plays right now in our offense. I dont like Garcia as our utility bench guy anymore. We can get a better player for that role.

Do we have any young talent coming up on Sept.1st that can play 2B or 3B?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Been the last two nights. O'Neill and Martinez ran into ones but the other bats didn't do much. They have looked kind of flat the last two nights. It's to be expected. You can't play the remaining 30+ games like each night is a WC game. You'll burn out.

I think Munoz has been average over at 3B, not so much at 2B. He hits .280, that plays right now in our offense. I dont like Garcia as our utility bench guy anymore. We can get a better player for that role.

Do we have any young talent coming up on Sept.1st that can play 2B or 3B?

Every infielder on the 40-man is already up in St. Louis. They are in deep shit. They only have three true OF on the roster: Bader, O'Neill, and Adolis Garcia.

[O.city]

Can they pick up an INF on waivers? Or an OF?

Got a feeling this streak is about to hit the skids pretty hard.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Can they pick up an INF on waivers? Or an OF?

Got a feeling this streak is about to hit the skids pretty hard.

Well, of course they *can*. The question is will they, and who will they have to release to do so.

It turns out that ESPN's 40-man is totally fucked, so don't look at that. Still, the 40-man is jam-packed, and will only get more onerous to navigate if they activate Wainwright. Releasing Bowman would help with that, but to add another bat would require that they release someone else. I'd have no issues if they got rid of Greg Garcia, though.

The biggest issue will come during the offseason. That roster is going to get mighty tight.

[BigRedChief]

The biggest issue will come during the offseason. That roster is going to get mighty tight.Which are more reasons that we need to put together some quarters to get a $ player.
I'd have no issues if they got rid of Greg Garcia, though.Yep, he needs to be the first to go. What he does can be done by others with more talent or upside.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, I put my probable 'Rule 5' 40 man list together earlier this month after the trade deadline:

There are 31 guys that I'm pretty sure are locks:
Flaherty, Martinez, Mikolas, Reyes, Wacha, Hudson, Gant, Gomber, Hicks, Poncedeleon, Weaver, Leone, Mayers, Shreve, Cecil, Gallegos, Molina, Backup C, Carpenter, DeJong, Jedd, Martinez, Munoz, Bader, O'Neill, Ozuna, JAG, Wong, Kelly, Justin Williams, Edmundo Sosa

Guys that are presently on there who may not stay -- Brebbia, Garcia, Darien Gonzalez, Connor Greene

Guys who are presently on there who almost certainly won't stay -- Webb, Fowler, Gregerson, Bowman

Notable guys who need to be added to keep out of the rule 5 -- Helsley, Schrock, Junior Fernandez, Lane Thomas, Genesis Cabrera, Wadye Infante

And then Elehuris Montero and Ramon Urias might be. I really can't tell. Montero is super young to need to be on the 40 but he's been in this system since 2014. If we trust his birthday, we signed this kid 3 weeks after he turned 16. So technically speaking, he's been in the organization for 5 rule 5 drafts, which by my reading means he needs to be protected this year.

So lets say you outright Gonzalez, Brebbia, Garcia, Webb, Gregerson, Bowman and Webb. You cut Fowler. You have to add Helsley and Schrock - they'll get snapped up. Cabrera as well; I wouldn't risk losing Thomas either. You probably go ahead and expose Wadye Infante and Junior Fernandez.

So your 31 locks plus Greene, Helsley, Schrock, Thomas and Cabrera gets you to 36. If Montero needs to be added you're at 37. You need to add another veteran arm to the bullpen to absorb some innings and a lefthanded bat on the bench to get you to 39. And if you figure I just missed someone else that needs to be added (it's not that easy to figure out), you're at 40.

I still wish they'd have just called up Justin Williams. His option year was already used with TB this season so there are no option worries. He's already on the 40 man so that spot is still free. Adding JAG to the 40 man when they didn't even need to do so t his offseason was just a mistake. Especially just to get a few largely unproductive at-bats out of a kid that's probably not going to make a meaningful contribution this season either way.

Mozeliak is notorious for shortsighted 40 man moves and that was one of them. I don't know that it will actually bite us that badly next season because Fernandez's injury and Infante's regression probably means you can expose them pretty easily. I'd kinda like to keep Webb if possible; he has a nice LOOGY arsenal. And Brebbia's a useful enough mop-up guy.

There's not a ton of free space to work with here but really, do any of us expect Mozeliak to make a roster splash anyway?

[DJ's left nut]

Cardinals AFL players announced:

Pitchers:
Conner Greene
Evan Kruczynski
Andrew Morales
Connor Jones

Hitters:
Jeremy Martinez
Tommy Edman
Andy Young
Lane Thomas

I've have replaced Morales and Jones with Woodford and Gonzalez from the pitchers and I'd have replaced Edman and Young with Sosa and Urias from the hitters.

I want Woodford to get more cracks against advanced hitters and I think we need to give Gonzalez one more crack to stay on the 40 man. I think Edman and Young profile as utility players. Sosa and Urias probably do as well but I think they both profile as similar offensive players to Edman and Young with better defensive tools. Both Edman and Young are stretched defensively up the middle whereas Sosa and Urias are pretty gifted there with room to be plus defenders who can give you more than Greg Garcia on offense.

Though Young's recent tear probably gives him a good case to have earned that opportunity so I understand why they'd send him.

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals AFL players announced:

Pitchers:
Conner Greene
Evan Kruczynski
Andrew Morales
Connor Jones

Hitters:
Jeremy Martinez
Tommy Edman
Andy Young
Lane Thomas

I've have replaced Morales and Jones with Woodford and Gonzalez from the pitchers and I'd have replaced Edman and Young with Sosa and Urias from the hitters.

I want Woodford to get more cracks against advanced hitters and I think we need to give Gonzalez one more crack to stay on the 40 man. I think Edman and Young profile as utility players. Sosa and Urias probably do as well but I think they both profile as similar offensive players to Edman and Young with better defensive tools. Both Edman and Young are stretched defensively up the middle whereas Sosa and Urias are pretty gifted there with room to be plus defenders who can give you more than Greg Garcia on offense.

Though Young's recent tear probably gives him a good case to have earned that opportunity so I understand why they'd send him.Should I expect any of these to be All-Stars someday in their career? Anyone with that kind of upside? Or lowering the bar, replace anyone on this current team based on performance next year or the next?

[DJ's left nut]

Should I expect any of these to be All-Stars someday in their career? Anyone with that kind of upside? Or lowering the bar, replace anyone on this current team based on performance next year or the next?

No.

Morales and Jones probably don't ever get more than a cup of coffee in the majors and if everything goes well they become John Brebbia someday. Greene will probably never figure out his command enough to become anything more than a taller, whiter Esteban Yan; dude's stuff is outstanding but he simply has no idea where it's going.

Kruczynski...sneaky Gomber potential there. Polished lefty that's moved fast through the system. He doesn't have that big ol' wipeout curve that Gomber has and frankly I still have no idea how Gomber can pitch as well up in the zone as he does; I don't expect Kruz to do that because I'm pretty sure it's witchcraft. But I think you have a solid lefty reliever in the Lyons mold at worst with some sort of Jarrod Washburny sort of back of the rotation lefty who's name it takes you a solid 10 minutes to come up with after dismissing Ross Detweiler, Aaron Sele, Jon Garland and for some reason, Aaron Laffey.

So maybe he's Lyons, maybe he's Washburn...maybe he's just another pitcher that flames out. Which is to say I have nothing.

Martinez is a likely backup catcher for a few years. Nice enough hitter in college and a nice enough catch and throw guy. Doesn't seem to do anything well or poorly. Could really see him being an Ed Easley type who plays a lot of catcher in the minors well and just never breaks through. I like Lane Thomas more than I probably should but he's extremely boom or bust. Either he becomes more consistent and ends up a 2-3 WAR player who's an asset in the corner oF and can play CF in a pinch or he just fades away because he can't sustain success for long enough. He's just so up and down.

Young and Edman are MI guys who, like a dozen other guys in the system, will almost certainly play in the majors someday but are unlikely to ever be spectacular in any way. Edman's handy because he can play a decent SS and is a switch hitter. Young is showing a fair amount of power but he's out of runway. Either he hits the ground scorching next year and proves that he's a genuine 15-20 HR threat who can play solid defense at 2b or he scuffles through AAA at 25 years old and we forget about him shortly thereafter. He's a half season further behind in his development than he should be, to be honest. He should be getting some licks in at AAA right now. That's the downside to having as much depth as the Cards do in their system with no clear standouts - Young was caught in a numbers game and now he's racing the clock to maintain prospect status.

If he torches the AFL, he can start next season in AAA and suddenly we're cooking with gas there.

[BigRedChief]

No.

Morales and Jones probably don't ever get more than a cup of coffee in the majors and if everything goes well they become John Brebbia someday. Greene will probably never figure out his command enough to become anything more than a taller, whiter Esteban Yan; dude's stuff is outstanding but he simply has no idea where it's going.

Kruczynski...sneaky Gomber potential there. Polished lefty that's moved fast through the system. He doesn't have that big ol' wipeout curve that Gomber has and frankly I still have no idea how Gomber can pitch as well up in the zone as he does; I don't expect Kruz to do that because I'm pretty sure it's witchcraft. But I think you have a solid lefty reliever in the Lyons mold at worst with some sort of Jarrod Washburny sort of back of the rotation lefty who's name it takes you a solid 10 minutes to come up with after dismissing Ross Detweiler, Aaron Sele, Jon Garland and for some reason, Aaron Laffey.

So maybe he's Lyons, maybe he's Washburn...maybe he's just another pitcher that flames out. Which is to say I have nothing.

Martinez is a likely backup catcher for a few years. Nice enough hitter in college and a nice enough catch and throw guy. Doesn't seem to do anything well or poorly. Could really see him being an Ed Easley type who plays a lot of catcher in the minors well and just never breaks through. I like Lane Thomas more than I probably should but he's extremely boom or bust. Either he becomes more consistent and ends up a 2-3 WAR player who's an asset in the corner oF and can play CF in a pinch or he just fades away because he can't sustain success for long enough. He's just so up and down.

Young and Edman are MI guys who, like a dozen other guys in the system, will almost certainly play in the majors someday but are unlikely to ever be spectacular in any way. Edman's handy because he can play a decent SS and is a switch hitter. Young is showing a fair amount of power but he's out of runway. Either he hits the ground scorching next year and proves that he's a genuine 15-20 HR threat who can play solid defense at 2b or he scuffles through AAA at 25 years old and we forget about him shortly thereafter. He's a half season further behind in his development than he should be, to be honest. He should be getting some licks in at AAA right now. That's the downside to having as much depth as the Cards do in their system with no clear standouts - Young was caught in a numbers game and now he's racing the clock to maintain prospect status.

If he torches the AFL, he can start next season in AAA and suddenly we're cooking with gas there.Thanks for the great info.

[BigRedChief]

2nd best record in the NL. Geezzz this is the best turnaround for a Cardinals team I can remember.

[Marco Polo]

Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!

[Jewish Rabbi]

Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!

Man, even if the Cards end up getting shut out, you get to see a generational talent in person. That’s pretty cool if you ask me.

[BigRedChief]

Man, even if the Cards end up getting shut out, you get to see a generational talent in person. That’s pretty cool if you ask me.That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

[bdj23]

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

Too risky

[DJ's left nut]

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

Wasted?

We used that dry powder to acquire Mike Leake and Dexter Fowler. How can that be a waste? Mike Leake was a credible #3 starter for about 6 weeks and Fowler actually hit a few baseballs for a 10 week span in a lost season last year.

Surely that's a worthwhile consolation for not pursuing Scherzer with any vigor...

[Marco Polo]

MLB.com's Jon Morosi reports that the Cardinals "have emerged as a suitor" for Josh Donaldson.

Morosi adds that Cardinals officials "intensified their efforts to add a position player" when Kolten Wong (hamstring) and Jedd Gyorko (groin) were placed on the disabled list. The fit makes sense, especially since the Cards have been connected to Donaldson often in the past. Of course, St. Louis is way down on the waiver priority for Donaldson, so they might not even get a shot at him. The Indians have previously been listed as a possible landing spot for Donaldson, but Morosi hears that the chances of him being dealt to Cleveland are "slim" because they want to keep Jose Ramirez at third base.

[Marco Polo]

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

I will be thinking about that for three hours straight on Monday, even if we somehow beat him.

[Marco Polo]

Forgot to note from my prior post- no way the Cards get Donaldson even if we want him. Someone below the waiver wire will surely put in a claim to block at this late stage in the game.

[DJ's left nut]

Forgot to note from my prior post- no way the Cards get Donaldson even if we want him. Someone below the waiver wire will surely put in a claim to block at this late stage in the game.

Again - McCutchen went unclaimed while healthy, more productive and cheaper this season.

I'd be surprised if anyone puts a claim in on Donaldson. I'm not even 100% sure the Cardinals will; I think they may see if he clears and try to engineer a trade.

$4.5 million for Josh Donaldson and his limp for 5 weeks isn't exactly a bargain.

[DJ's left nut]

Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!

Additionally, rumors now are that Scherzer is pitching Sunday against the Brewers afterall.

So that's nice.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Again - McCutchen went unclaimed while healthy, more productive and cheaper this season.

I'd be surprised if anyone puts a claim in on Donaldson. I'm not even 100% sure the Cardinals will; I think they may see if he clears and try to engineer a trade.

$4.5 million for Josh Donaldson and his limp for 5 weeks isn't exactly a bargain.

I was about to say that McCutchen passed through, and with Ozuna's shoulder, he would have been a good target.

[DJ's left nut]

I was about to say that McCutchen passed through, and with Ozuna's shoulder, he would have been a good target.

Eh - I'm fine with an OF of O'Neill, Bader and Martinez.

[VAChief]

Again - McCutchen went unclaimed while healthy, more productive and cheaper this season.

I'd be surprised if anyone puts a claim in on Donaldson. I'm not even 100% sure the Cardinals will; I think they may see if he clears and try to engineer a trade.

$4.5 million for Josh Donaldson and his limp for 5 weeks isn't exactly a bargain.

If they will take some of roster glut we will likely release anyway, I don't have a problem with it, but it can't be anything significant at this point of the year and considering he could be a Greg Holland equivalent position player.

[BigRedChief]

Eh - I'm fine with an OF of O'Neill, Bader and Martinez.Yeah, Martinez hasn't screwed up too much out there. Maybe he just looks good in comparison to being the worst defensive 1B of all time.

One time, he did have his glove halfway on his hand and couldn't catch the ball, but at least he got to the ball.:D

[DJ's left nut]

If they will take some of roster glut we will likely release anyway, I don't have a problem with it, but it can't be anything significant at this point of the year and considering he could be a Greg Holland equivalent position player.

I'm not wholly convinced that Donaldson with bad legs will give us anything more than Patrick Wisdom would, but that's easily the most I'd give up for him and if I did, the Jays would be taking salary back.

Wisdom's gone this off-season one way or the other. We either lose him as a minor league FA or in a trade for marginal organizational depth piece. If we could send him back to Toronto to get a million bucks back, that's probably as good a use for him as we'll find.

But even that could backfire as again - I wouldn't be surprised to see Wisdom actually outplay Donaldson going forward. Folks are really underestimating how screwed up Donaldson's lower half is and how badly that will impact his swing. I doubt he'll be able to play more than 2 of every 3 games and there's a decent chance he just breaks down outright.

His swing is just too violent. Without his legs under him, it's just not gonna work.

[Marco Polo]

Again - McCutchen went unclaimed while healthy, more productive and cheaper this season.



I'd be surprised if anyone puts a claim in on Donaldson. I'm not even 100% sure the Cardinals will; I think they may see if he clears and try to engineer a trade.



$4.5 million for Josh Donaldson and his limp for 5 weeks isn't exactly a bargain.



Have to give credit where it’s due- you were right. He’s cleared waivers.

Now the infamous Bob Nightengale thinks we are the favorites to land him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[duncan_idaho]

Donaldson is going to be a really interesting FA case. Before the year, I would have predicted something like 3/55 for him. Now?

Who knows, but I can’t see anything committing multiple years at this point.

[BigRedChief]

Donaldson is going to be a really interesting FA case. Before the year, I would have predicted something like 3/55 for him. Now?

Who knows, but I can’t see anything committing multiple years at this point.Unless its heavily weighted to performance, how could any team give him multiple years with the AAV he wants? Especially us with the Fowler situation/contract that's still hasnt been dealt with yet and that's a bomb waiting to detonate in the off season. No way you don't have to pay $50 million for that problem to go away.

[DJ's left nut]

Donaldson is going to be a really interesting FA case. Before the year, I would have predicted something like 3/55 for him. Now?

Who knows, but I can’t see anything committing multiple years at this point.

He cleared.

The Jays will trade him for something for that very reason. They can't offer him a QO - he'll absolutely take it. Nobody's gonna give him a LTC and he'll end up stuck in Moustakas purgatory if he turned down the QO and went to market with draft pick compensation attached.

No, if the Jays offer him the QO, they're paying him $19 million next season. So they won't.

I just don't think there's much of a market for him. Wisdom for Donaldson and at least $1 million seems like too much to give for a broken down 3b but I'd probably go ahead and do it.

[DJ's left nut]

Oh, and for the record, the guy to get isn't even Donaldson - it's Logan Forsythe.

He's a 2b with enough defensive versatility to slide over to 3b if/when Wong gets back healthy. He's a solid veteran stick who we know can help us right now.

Gimme Forsythe so we don't risk rushing Wong back too early. Play Munoz at 3b where he's actually been pretty decent defensively this year. Forsythe can take Garcia's utility IFer role (with Munoz weirdly becoming an OF/IF hybrid) if/when Gyorko returns.

[BigRedChief]

I just don't think there's much of a market for him. Wisdom for Donaldson and at least $1 million seems like too much to give for a broken down 3b but I'd probably go ahead and do it.I thought you and Hamas were big Gyrko fans?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think that the Cardinals need to take a risk and the 10-20% chance that Donaldson can hold it together through September and then for a few weeks in October is worth it, because if he can, pitchers can't really navigate the Cardinals offense safely.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I thought you and Hamas were big Gyrko fans?

I like Gyorko and think he's underpaid, but if he's hurt he can't help a team on a playoff push. He's also the kind of guy that will win or lose a playoff series for you depending on how his bat is going.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought you and Hamas were big Gyrko fans?

I am. He's hurt.

And groin injuries don't fuck around. Who's to say when he'll come back or what kind of timing he'll be able to find before we really need him.

But that's why I'm more interested in Forsythe than Donaldson. Gimme a guy that can play multiple defensive positions and is healthy enough to contribute now while we need to get through this patch of injuries. I'd rather have that than a 3b only player who's simply not sound at the moment and is a real risk to break down within a few days of us acquiring him.

[DJ's left nut]

I like Gyorko and think he's underpaid, but if he's hurt he can't help a team on a playoff push. He's also the kind of guy that will win or lose a playoff series for you depending on how his bat is going.

Jedd could easily have had the kind of post-season that Freese had. He's no less talented than Freese was.

David just got hot at the right time. Jedd's has stretches just like that in his own right. He was a guy I had on a shortlist of potential post-season heroes that make people bitch about 'Cardinal Devil Magic' for another half decade.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Jedd could easily have had the kind of post-season that Freese had. He's no less talented than Freese was.

David just got hot at the right time. Jedd's has stretches just like that in his own right. He was a guy I had on a shortlist of potential post-season heroes that make people bitch about 'Cardinal Devil Magic' for another half decade.

We're not in disagreement over that. He can also have the kind of postseason that makes you end up motherfucking him for the next two years, like Jhonny Peralta.

[DJ's left nut]

We're not in disagreement over that. He can also have the kind of postseason that makes you end up motherfucking him for the next two years, like Jhonny Peralta.

Do you remember the shattered husk of Chase Utley standing there flat-footed and swinging feebly at anything that vaguely resembled a slider that might get near the plate because he knew full well that any fastball you threw him would actually knock him to the ground if it managed to hit his bat?

I mean, Donaldson may not be quite that pathetic, but he'll be close. Ask Allen Craig how easy it is to drive a ball if your legs don't work. Now take that lunatic 'hip load' thing that Donaldson does and realize that his lower half is even more critical.

What the hell's he gonna do with no base and an armbar? I just can't see how Donaldson can do anything other than try to Kirk Gibson his way through it. Just an assload of pain management in the hopes he can give you 2 or 3 good swings every few days before resting again.

[VAChief]

We're not in disagreement over that. He can also have the kind of postseason that makes you end up mother****ing him for the next two years, like Jhonny Peralta.

Wong and Gyroko both were starting to fit in where we needed them from the start. It sucks bad losing them right now.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you remember the shattered husk of Chase Utley standing there flat-footed and swinging feebly at anything that vaguely resembled a slider that might get near the plate because he knew full well that any fastball you threw him would actually knock him to the ground if it managed to hit his bat?

I mean, Donaldson may not be quite that pathetic, but he'll be close. Ask Allen Craig how easy it is to drive a ball if your legs don't work. Now take that lunatic 'hip load' thing that Donaldson does and realize that his lower half is even more critical.

What the hell's he gonna do with no base and an armbar? I just can't see how Donaldson can do anything other than try to Kirk Gibson his way through it. Just an assload of pain management in the hopes he can give you 2 or 3 good swings every few days before resting again.

Yeah, but we're also not dealing with an arthritic hip or a Lis Franc injury. He took a day off in between going 2-4 and hitting one out last night. It's certainly high risk, but a calf isn't a foot or hip.

[BigRedChief]

He is going to blow out his arm with this motion? Anything we can do about it? He's still way more valuable to us than anything we could get in a trade before the blow out, right?


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jordan Hicks, Arm Action/Intent (front view/101mph FB). <a href="https://t.co/zYdGlUrJG4">pic.twitter.com/zYdGlUrJG4</a></p>&mdash; Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) <a href="https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status/1035545098627559431?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[BigRedChief]

This is a very unique talent

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hicks did him <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/dirty?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#dirty</a> <br>101 MPH Sinker to get the K <a href="https://t.co/23ant1goET">pic.twitter.com/23ant1goET</a></p>&mdash; cardinalsgifs (@cardinalsgifs) <a href="https://twitter.com/cardinalsgifs/status/1035346783243649024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[BigRedChief]

Per MLB network: Cardinals have offered a trade for Donaldson. It’s considered a “low ball” offer and the Cardinals are not interested in coming up on the compensation.

Sounds like you guys said, if you can get him cheap, then take the gamble.

[bdj23]

Dry powder or something

[BigRedChief]

Dry powder or something



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mozeliak said he doesn&#39;t anticipate the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> making an acquisition before the end of the day.</p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/1035639270017519616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[bdj23]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mozeliak said he doesn&#39;t anticipate the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> making an acquisition before the end of the day.</p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/1035639270017519616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 31, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is my shocked face

[BigRedChief]

This is my shocked facewellll if they are wanting a “real” prospect for a month rental, fuck that.

They take Wisdom as DJ said, sure why not take the gamble on him. They want starting pitching, fuck them.

[Jewish Rabbi]

wellll if they are wanting a “real” prospect for a month rental, fuck that.

They take Wisdom as DJ said, sure why not take the gamble on him. They want starting pitching, fuck them.

We could give them Fowler!

[bdj23]

Im not mad about it, im just not suprised by it. Like i said, Mo has thru the off season with me to improve the talent on this team.

[DJ's left nut]

wellll if they are wanting a “real” prospect for a month rental, fuck that.

They take Wisdom as DJ said, sure why not take the gamble on him. They want starting pitching, fuck them.

They aren't.

This is all about money. They're not trying to get dick for him - they're just trying to get as much salary relief as possible, IMO.

They'd have let him go for cash considerations if the Cards put a claim in on him, I think that much is now clear.

[BigRedChief]

They aren't.

This is all about money. They're not trying to get dick for him - they're just trying to get as much salary relief as possible, IMO.

They'd have let him go for cash considerations if the Cards put a claim in on him, I think that much is now clear.A gamble of $4 million for a month? Is that what it boils down to make the deal? No “real” players in a trade?

[bdj23]

A gamble of $4 million for a month? Is that what it boils down to make the deal? No “real” players in a trade?

Thats about what we spent on broke dick holland.

[BigRedChief]

Im not mad about it, im just not suprised by it. Like i said, Mo has thru the off season with me to improve the talent on this team.
Same here.

I’m still concerned about team chemistry. With Gyrko out, I don’t think there is an issue with Donaldson playing. What if he is “meh” and Gyrko is healthy? You split time or keep him on the bench, who knows what happens in that locker room. Like DJ said about Murphy, he has a reputation for playing hard. Does Donaldson have that reputation? Would he be happy with a part time role if he’s healthy?

This month watching Cardinals baseball has been fun. I’d hate to have that torpedoed.

[bdj23]

Good thing we are facing Homer Bailey, cus this is off to a rocky start

[bdj23]

Donaldson traded.

NYY?

[BigRedChief]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources confirm the Yankees have traded Justus Sheffield and cash considerations to the Blue Jays for Josh Donaldson</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@OGOdubel) <a href="https://twitter.com/OGOdubel/status/1035695659255558147?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 1, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Baseball players do the dumbest shit sometimes. Just slide to the bag, Adams.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources confirm the Yankees have traded Justus Sheffield and cash considerations to the Blue Jays for Josh Donaldson</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@OGOdubel) <a href="https://twitter.com/OGOdubel/status/1035695659255558147?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 1, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's not Ken Rosenthal.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

He's going to the Indians. No one comes in second like Mo.

[Jewish Rabbi]

He's going to the Indians. No one comes in second like Mo.

Meh. Not upset he came in second this time.

[Marcellus]

How the fuck has Homer Bailey pitched 2 no hitters? Dude is straight trash.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Meh. Not upset he came in second this time.

This is about implied odds. Yeah, the remainder of his salary is high, but he's not going to cost prospects, and if he rounds to form, the potential payoff is enormous.

Thinks of it this way:

There is a raise and a few calls in front of you at a poker table. You're holding suited connectors. You're almost certainly behind when you call, but suited connectors are the kinds of hands that, if the flop hits, can crush big hands preflop because players don't see them coming as there are so many ways for them to hit. The odds of hitting are low, but so is the risk, and the potential payoff is huge.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Homer Bailey ROFL

[Jewish Rabbi]

Cecil sure got his edge back!

[Jewish Rabbi]

God dammit DFA this piece of shit last year

[Jewish Rabbi]

Fucking 5 run lead and we have to burn half our fucking bullpen

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That needs to be the last pitch Cecil ever throws in a Cardinals uniform.