Chiefs are retaining defensive coordinator Bob Sutton [old news]

[chiefzilla1501]

Anyone want to guess why we didn't blitz much this year? Oh yeah because the secondary ****ing SUCKED. They did not have the secondary to handle covering blitzes. That's a huge personnel problem.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the Chiefs need to blitz more crowd. Chiefs rush 6 guys Carr throws a fade route for 13yds for a 1st down on 3rd and 10 <a href="https://t.co/CuHYJElCB1">pic.twitter.com/CuHYJElCB1</a></p>&mdash; Joe D (@pulseofdachiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/pulseofdachiefs/status/923388261531312129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/23by5v"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/23by5v.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

One play doesn't change the narrative. There are plenty of plays as well where our corners cover for a million seconds. We don't have to blitz 40% of the time. But being dead last by a mile is not excusable. There's no imagination the rare times we blitz, no stunts, headscratching approach to third downs. I've defended Sutton plenty but this year he looked absolutely lost. Unlike others, I don't think he was a bad coach this entire time. But this year was just bad in ways you can't blame solely on talent. Talent didn't get in the way in other years when we didn't have berry, dj, Houston in large stretches.

[Fish]

I too agree that Sutton can succeed with top-tier talent. It's the utter inability to adapt to compromises in the talent pool that inevitably arise during the season that's the troubling part.

It's like those 'innovative' Formula 1 teams that come out every year with some new engine or aerodynamics package that promises to take the field by storm. Then they inevitably develop some radiator problem, or a tire issue out of nowhere, and they're back on the sidelines watching Ferrari lope along to their umpteenth victory.

I'd say it's the inability to adapt to anything. Especially in game adjustments. How many games did the defense hold their own during the first half, only to completely fall apart in the second half because of lack of adjustments?

[Iczer]

I cannot wait to see Houston drop into coverage more and not rush the passer.


How soon before we see news that the Chiefs sign Frank Zombo to an extension. He's such a gritty player and brings his lunch pail to work every day!

That would just be the icing on the shit cake

[Gravedigger]

The "give Sutton better talent to succeed" is the same boring and tired argument that we've used for Alex Smith the past three or four years. I'm done with them both, and the loser wait and see mentality of this organization.

[RunKC]

One play doesn't change the narrative. There are plenty of plays as well where our corners cover for a million seconds. We don't have to blitz 40% of the time. But being dead last by a mile is not excusable. There's no imagination the rare times we blitz, no stunts, headscratching approach to third downs. I've defended Sutton plenty but this year he looked absolutely lost. Unlike others, I don't think he was a bad coach this entire time. But this year was just bad in ways you can't blame solely on talent. Talent didn't get in the way in other years when we didn't have berry, dj, Houston in large stretches.

How can you look at this team and not see talent disparity? With Dee Ford we average 3 sacks a game. Without him we average 1.3.

Zombo, Sorenson, Murray, Tamba, DJ. These are not NFL starting players and yet we still have up only 22 points in the playoff game.
Again, what DC is making that trash look better than Sutton did? There was a serious personnel problem.

The Chiefs defense was great in NE, great vs Philly, great vs LA, and good vs Washington. Then the downfall came when EB and Ford showed us how little depth we have behind them.

[Toad]

“So (replacing Sutton) is not where I’m at or have ever been. I don’t listen to any of that. I do what I think is right for the Kansas City Chiefs.”

Terez, thanks for reporting, but it appears like Andy is dismissing you and the entire media. May I recommend that you and your media colleagues grow a pair and challenge Andy on his rationale for keeping Sutton.

[RippedmyFlesh]

How soon before we see news that the Chiefs sign Frank Zombo to an extension. He's such a gritty player and brings his lunch pail to work every day!

That would just be the icing on the shit cake

Kind of sad in a way because on a team with a good d and he doesnt see time he could be a ST beast. Good teams have players like that on ST but dont have to play them on d.

[ThaVirus]

I'd say it's the inability to adapt to anything. Especially in game adjustments. How many games did the defense hold their own during the first half, only to completely fall apart in the second half because of lack of adjustments?

Its a strange thing. Oftentimes I'd feel as though we played lights out in the first half only to come out and finish by laying an egg. Then other times I felt the defense looked a bit iffy in the first half only to pitch a shutout in the second half.

Either way it highlights a sever inability to put together a full 60 minutes.

[The Franchise]

I'd say it's the inability to adapt to anything. Especially in game adjustments. How many games did the defense hold their own during the first half, only to completely fall apart in the second half because of lack of adjustments?

That's on Andy. Neither the offense nor the defense can play a full 60 minutes of quality football.

[raybec 4]

How can you look at this team and not see talent disparity? With Dee Ford we average 3 sacks a game. Without him we average 1.3.

Zombo, Sorenson, Murray, Tamba, DJ. These are not NFL starting players and yet we still have up only 22 points in the playoff game.
Again, what DC is making that trash look better than Sutton did? There was a serious personnel problem.

The Chiefs defense was great in NE, great vs Philly, great vs LA, and good vs Washington. Then the downfall came when EB and Ford showed us how little depth we have behind them.

You can't seriously be suggesting that we don't have serious schematic problems with the defense.

[O.city]

Looking at the numbers, the defense really fell of this last year.

Looks like a big talent disparity issue.

Not a fan of this

[srvy]

:shrug: It HAS worked out well.

That's 3 more super bowl wins that we've had in that time period...

Jerry picked Jimmy. Jerry picked Barry.

And he hasnt done shit since he let them go although Barry just fed off what Jimmy left him. I will give Jerry credit for hiring Jimmy but Jerry wasnt able to handle the credit going to Jimmy.

Just to be clear I to wanted a fresh start with a new Dcoord but I think we didnt get our target so Sutton is holding off retirement. That is just a huge hunch!

[FloridaMan88]

The absolute last thing anyone should want is a hands on owner like Jerry Jones who meddles into everything.

You should go back and watch Brett Veach’s press conference. He specifically mentions his discussion with Clark of what he needs to do to win a championship in the next 3 years.

Clark isn’t going to meddle with Andy, but if this continues another year or two, I think Andy is out.

No one is suggesting that Clark go the Jerry Jones-level extreme of being too involved, but he should be holding Andy Reid and his coaching staff more accountable than he appears to be currently doing.

[The Franchise]

Well Andy has his scapegoat for next year at least.

[Chief Pote]

While I enjoy this crazy place called Chiefs Planet, after 48 years I've given up on the chefs. No hope to ever win it all.
Go Eagles.

[RunKC]

You can't seriously be suggesting that we don't have serious schematic problems with the defense.

I do but the numbers don’t lie. The Chiefs gave up 22 points in the playoff game. That’s literally the league average.

If your offense can’t win a game in which the defense gave up the league average amount of points in a game, then you won’t win shit.

The defense is always relied upon to close out games. This has been the case ever since Andy got here. Sutton runs some crazy shit out here, but it’s the offense that fails.

It’s the same shit as 2016 when people got pissed that Houston was in coverage when the Steelers closed out the game.
I don’t care about that. I care that the offense couldn’t win when the defense gave up only 18 pointa consistig of FG’s.

[Titty Meat]

Defense will be much better if Berry is healthy and the defensive line gets addressed. The defense played well down the stretch of the regular season.

[The Franchise]

Defense will be much better if Berry is healthy and the defensive line gets addressed. The defense played well down the stretch of the regular season.

I'm going to have to question Berry's health though. I know he's come back in the past but eventually these injuries start to add up and make it harder to come back at 100%.

[RunKC]

No one is suggesting that Clark go the Jerry Jones-level extreme of being too involved, but he should be holding Andy Reid and his coaching staff more accountable than he appears to be currently doing.

This is just my opinion based on what I’ve seen, but I think this has been a stemming problem for well over a year in which the Chiefs could not get better.

-Chiefs could only sign one real FA (Bennie Logan) while relying on basically what they had last year.
-Chiefs blow a 3rd rd defensive pick and don’t get much defensive help from the draft the last 2 years outside of Chris Jones.
-Dorsey gets fired.
-Upon being hired, Veach immediately trades for 2 ILB’s.

It’s pretty clear to see that this coaching staff felt hamstrung and was not happy with personnel going into the 2017 season bc of John Dorsey’s financial and draft errors.

[Titty Meat]

I'm going to have to question Berry's health though. I know he's come back in the past but eventually these injuries start to add up and make it harder to come back at 100%.

Fair point especially with how we've managed injuries in the past.

I still think with a better defensive line the defense could be decent.

[The Franchise]

This is just my opinion based on what I’ve seen, but I think this has been a stemming problem for well over a year in which the Chiefs could not get better.

-Chiefs could only sign one real FA (Bennie Logan) while relying on basically what they had last year.
-Chiefs blow a 3rd rd defensive pick and don’t get much defensive help from the draft the last 2 years outside of Chris Jones.
-Dorsey gets fired.
-Upon being hired, Veach immediately trades for 2 ILB’s.

It’s pretty clear to see that this coaching staff felt hamstrung and was not happy with personnel going into the 2017 season bc of John Dorsey’s financial and draft errors.

Veach has his work cut out for him.

[The Franchise]

Fair point especially with how we've managed injuries in the past.

I still think with a better defensive line the defense could be decent.

That and I don't think the achilles that was bothering him was the one that ruptured. I believe it was the opposite one.

[Valiant]

Its a strange thing. Oftentimes I'd feel as though we played lights out in the first half only to come out and finish by laying an egg. Then other times I felt the defense looked a bit iffy in the first half only to pitch a shutout in the second half.

Either way it highlights a sever inability to put together a full 60 minutes.

That is Andy. Our players on both sides of the ball play soft. They don't have it in them to go 60 consistently and unfortunately enough of them are not professional enough to do it on their own without a strong coach.

[Shields68]

Fair point especially with how we've managed injuries in the past.

I still think with a better defensive line the defense could be decent.

I agree on the DL. When playing Pitt or the Pats it is a must to get pressure while rushing 4. We currently can not do that. Really Jones is about the only above average pass rusher for his position. Not sure how we improve by next year.

[Randallflagg]

No one is suggesting that Clark go the Jerry Jones-level extreme of being too involved, but he should be holding Andy Reid and his coaching staff more accountable than he appears to be currently doing.


Honestly, I think that if you look at say, 25 or so of the current franchises out there in the NFL - the owners seem like they look at each season like a profit/loss spreadsheet. In other words, as long as they turn a respectable profit each year, the status quo continues.

A lot of teams that have won a SB usually begin the process of cutting the baggage after a SB win which is (basically) starting over. The teams that consistently win (The damned pats) do just the opposite. They KEEP their rosters in tact year after year.

Hunt is no different than the first category. As long as the Chiefs are making him money each year (and they are) why screw with the formula? So it's status quo each year and the rest of us bitch and moan (me, most definitely included).

Every OC in the NFL knows EXACTLY what Sutton is going to do on each down and they react accordingly. This season will be more of the same. Defense will (most likely) be ranked around 30th, 31st. It gets worse each year he stays.

[ptlyon]

The "give Sutton better talent to succeed" is the same boring and tired argument that we've used for Alex Smith the past three or four years.

No shit.

"If we only had some more talent, we would have went to the SB!"

[FloridaMan88]

Honestly, I think that if you look at say, 25 or so of the current franchises out there in the NFL - the owners seem like they look at each season like a profit/loss spreadsheet. In other words, as long as they turn a respectable profit each year, the status quo continues.

A lot of teams that have won a SB usually begin the process of cutting the baggage after a SB win which is (basically) starting over. The teams that consistently win (The damned pats) do just the opposite. They KEEP their rosters in tact year after year.

Hunt is no different than the first category. As long as the Chiefs are making him money each year (and they are) why screw with the formula? So it's status quo each year and the rest of us bitch and moan (me, most definitely included).

Every OC in the NFL knows EXACTLY what Sutton is going to do on each down and they react accordingly. This season will be more of the same. Defense will (most likely) be ranked around 30th, 31st. It gets worse each year he stays.

Two of the three non-Chiefs teams that lost on Wild Card weekend have fired assistant coaches.

Green Bay and Seattle who have made recent Super Bowl appearances have fired assistant coaches since the end of the regular season.

Where does the ownership of those respective franchises fit in with your analysis above and relative to Clark Hunt?

[chiefzilla1501]

This is just my opinion based on what I’ve seen, but I think this has been a stemming problem for well over a year in which the Chiefs could not get better.

-Chiefs could only sign one real FA (Bennie Logan) while relying on basically what they had last year.
-Chiefs blow a 3rd rd defensive pick and don’t get much defensive help from the draft the last 2 years outside of Chris Jones.
-Dorsey gets fired.
-Upon being hired, Veach immediately trades for 2 ILB’s.

It’s pretty clear to see that this coaching staff felt hamstrung and was not happy with personnel going into the 2017 season bc of John Dorsey’s financial and draft errors.

We played 2016 with basically the same cast plus berry, minus Houston, Bailey, and with Logan instead of a banged up poe. I get that our personnel isn't ideal. But we fielded good defenses with bad players before. There were just as many plays with bad execution as there were plays where players were executing head scratching play calls. Something happened last year where Sutton looked flat out lost.

[FloridaMan88]

The "give Sutton better talent to succeed" is the same boring and tired argument that we've used for Alex Smith the past three or four years. I'm done with them both, and the loser wait and see mentality of this organization.

This.

How much more talent does Bob Sutton need to prevent his defense from giving up 7/7 third down conversions to a terrible offense as his defense did to Tennessee in the second half of the playoff game?

[Bewbies]

The problem with Sutton's scheme is you need multiple great CB's, multiple great pass rushers, and a defensive line that can stop the run at the line of scrimmage.

When you have that it's awesome. When you don't it's the dogs ass.

[RealSNR]

Heresy!!!

That doesn't mean Alex ever deserved to keep his job except after the 2015 season.

I think that's been your point in your assessment that Alex can't do everything himself. It's time to start demanding that a bigger piece of that pie is served from the QB position.

Thankfully, that step has been achieved. I'm willing to see it through with Reid as long as he changes his ways. Hell, Sutton can even stick around if he fulfills his end of the deal, too.

[jjchieffan]

life as a Chiefs fan.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LightFaithfulBoa-max-1mb.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuickBabyishAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-max-1mb.gif

Maybe the next DirecTV commercial should say Some people still prefer cable, just like some people prefer watching their favorite NFL team lose in the playoffs. Then show either the truefan gif from the Eric Fisher pick or a cheering Arrowhead crowd, then the scoreboard Titans 23 Chiefs 22.

[Ragged Robin]

The Sutton/Smith argument is spot on: serviceable, had some success, yet ultimately not enough to finish the job and it's now time to try something else. Keeping him is a mistake. We're going on half a decade of Bob Sutton now and his last playoff game was exactly like the first.. he owns two of four biggest defensive meltdowns in playoff history and did so within the span of four years. Think about that for a second.

The problem with Sutton's scheme is you need multiple great CB's, multiple great pass rushers, and a defensive line that can stop the run at the line of scrimmage.

When you have that it's awesome. When you don't it's the dogs ass.

and even then, having that would make ANY scheme look good regardless ROFL

[tooge]

Got the call from the Chiefs today about renewing season tix. Been a STH since 1989. Told them no thanks, and this is one of the main reasons why. I'll attend a game or two if tickets are cheap. Otherwise I'm hunting all fall. F the NFL

[ptlyon]

Got the call from the Chiefs today about renewing season tix. Been a STH since 1989. Told them no thanks, and this is one of the main reasons why. I'll attend a game or two if tickets are cheap. Otherwise I'm hunting all fall. F the NFL

I pray to God you used the term "broke dick" in there

[O.city]

The problem with Sutton's scheme is you need multiple great CB's, multiple great pass rushers, and a defensive line that can stop the run at the line of scrimmage.

When you have that it's awesome. When you don't it's the dogs ass.

True but what defenses are good without those types of players?

[Coochie liquor]

If I'm Clark and I sit there and listen to Andy tell me he wants to keep Sutton after two historic pants shittings....

I make it clear to him that if he wants to keep Sutton, then both Andy and Bob's asses are on the line now. If Andy wants to hitch his wagon to his boy, then he better prepare for major shit if this team misses, or get bounced yet again from the playoffs.

We have a new qb staring next season, one year removed from being a rookie. We may not make the playoffs next season. I think the new qb buys Andy at least 2 more seasons currently. Maybe Sutton retires after this season.

[RunKC]

We played 2016 with basically the same cast plus berry, minus Houston, Bailey, and with Logan instead of a banged up poe. I get that our personnel isn't ideal. But we fielded good defenses with bad players before. There were just as many plays with bad execution as there were plays where players were executing head scratching play calls. Something happened last year where Sutton looked flat out lost.

The difference between last year and this year is the talent fell off a cliff.

-Berry was a monumental loss.
-Dee Ford had 10 sacks last year. Missed most of this year.
-Tamba provided a decent pass rush last year. Was invisible this year.
-Allen Bailey is not what he used to be.

And we still gave up more than 22 points only once in the 2nd half of the year.

[staylor26]

The difference between last year and this year is the talent fell off a cliff.

-Berry was a monumental loss.
-Dee Ford had 10 sacks last year. Missed most of this year.
-Tamba provided a decent pass rush last year. Was invisible this year.
-Allen Bailey is not what he used to be.

And we still gave up more than 22 points only once in the 2nd half of the year.

I’d add DJ’s rapid decline to that list too.

[RunKC]

This team needs to be very active in March improving this defense. Look at what the Eagles did:

Signed Chris Long
Signed Patrick Robinson
Traded for Timmy Jernigan
Traded for Ronald Darby
Drafted Derek Barnett
Drafted Rasul Douglas
Drafted Sidney Jones

Veach needs to be active and make moves like this

[Baby Lee]

That doesn't mean Alex ever deserved to keep his job except after the 2015 season.

I think that's been your point in your assessment that Alex can't do everything himself. It's time to start demanding that a bigger piece of that pie is served from the QB position.

Thankfully, that step has been achieved. I'm willing to see it through with Reid as long as he changes his ways. Hell, Sutton can even stick around if he fulfills his end of the deal, too.

Thing is, we're well beyond 'a bigger piece of the pie.' We're putting expectations on Mahomes to grow the fruit and wheat, mix the dough, build the oven and open the restaurant. He doesn't deserve that, and Alex didn't either.

Outside the first half of the Titans game and most of the Texans game, there's been nothing impressive about the defense in the playoffs in 20 years. In the past decade, key players have gone down in droves reliably.

Everything has an excuse but QB/Alex. Mahomes will be an improvement, but he won't be a constant Lord and Savior.

I want a reliable team that I can count on to perform to their abilities. There isn't a lot of joy [even if you dream there will be] in a shitty team that has a QB who occasionally drags them to a wimpy win. Every member of the team draws a paycheck.

And don't even get me started on this hope that THE LEAGUE will fall in love with him and give him crappy undeserved calls we think are held in reserve for Brady.

[The Franchise]

Holding the Steelers to 18 wasn’t impressive? Yes, they gave up 170 rushing yards but the offense has to score points.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not at all thrilled with retaining Sutton but at this point, it's on Veach to sign the best left guard in Free Agency (Norwell), identify a few defensive players in a shallow free agent talent pool and draft defense, defense, defense.

And not "projects", guys that are ready to contribute immediately, Day One, Week One.

All of those moves might allow the Chiefs to make it back to the playoffs in 2018 but unlike previous years, they're going to need some luck to make that happen.

Losing their best and highest paid players on the defensive side of the ball can't continue to happen year in and year out if this team is to advance in the playoffs.

[Baby Lee]

Holding the Steelers to 18 wasn’t impressive? Yes, they gave up 170 rushing yards but the offense has to score points.

It's been pointed out a bajillion times, the Steelers ran at will between the 20s, and then for no reason whatsoever, they had Rapelisburger toss up a couple wounded ducks to kill the drive.

Alex actually outperformed Rapleisburger in that game [not that either of them performed well]. Fortunately for the Steelers, they had a complete team.

The defense didn't do shit, but stand there and watch the Steelers gameplan immolate over and over.

[The Franchise]

It's been pointed out a bajillion times, the Steelers ran at will between the 20s, and then for no reason whatsoever, they had Rapelisburger toss up a couple wounded ducks to kill the drive.

Alex actually outperformed Rapleisburger in that game [not that either of them performed well]. Fortunately for the Steelers, they had a complete team.

The defense didn't do shit, but stand there and watch the Steelers gameplan immolate over and over.

But nothing about the offense failing to score points right?

[ChiefsLV]

Holding the Steelers to 18 wasn’t impressive? Yes, they gave up 170 rushing yards but the offense has to score points.
The time of possession they used in running at will shouldn't be ignored either. It's similar to what happened in the Titans game in the second half, granted the offense failed each time on I think 4 second half possessions. Defense couldn't get off the field. Points given up are important but so is getting the ball back for your offense to have enough opportunities.

[Baby Lee]

But nothing about the offense failing to score points right?

I think you meant to say Alex's failure, right?

ROFL ROFL

Like I said, every single and composite thing on the franchise has an excuse, except Alex. And now we're passing that on to Patrick, with the caveat that those who have bitched about Alex most are now switching their demands from championships to 'exciting' games, and if he fails we won't complain because at least we 'tried.'

[Hammock Parties]

I think you meant to say Alex's failure, right?

ROFL ROFL

Like I said, every single and composite thing on the franchise has an excuse, except Alex. And now we're passing that on to Patrick, with the caveat that those who have bitched about Alex most are now switching their demands from championships to 'exciting' games, and if he fails we won't complain because at least we 'tried.'

Fucking bullshit.

If Mahomes doesn't win any playoff games in five years he will similarly vilified.

We're not asking for Joe Montana. Just 24 fucking points in a playoff game. Alex has only done that when his defense forces 4 goddamn turnovers.

[Randallflagg]

Two of the three non-Chiefs teams that lost on Wild Card weekend have fired assistant coaches.

Green Bay and Seattle who have made recent Super Bowl appearances have fired assistant coaches since the end of the regular season.

Where does the ownership of those respective franchises fit in with your analysis above and relative to Clark Hunt?

Nowhere. "some" of these franchises listen to their fan base and understand that sometimes it's better to let one or two go to keep the "base" happy. Schottenheimer wouldn't normally fire someone unless it was so damned ridiculously bad that he had little choice (I give you Dave Adolph).

Reid, on the other hand, knows the current climate against Sutton and doesn't care. Hunt is fine with leaving the day to day operations to Reid and Veach. Hell, who knows, he's off partying in the Caymans for all I know.

Now, if banners begin to fly and the media begins to take an interest, all bets are off. If season tickets experience and larger than expected drop off in sales, and Jerseys, hats et al begin to slip (which would mean a slump in yearly profits) THEN and ONLY then will Chunt get "personally" involved.

[Buckweath]

I'm not at all thrilled with retaining Sutton but at this point, it's on Veach to sign the best left guard in Free Agency (Norwell), identify a few defensive players in a shallow free agent talent pool and draft defense, defense, defense.

And not "projects", guys that are ready to contribute immediately, Day One, Week One.

All of those moves might allow the Chiefs to make it back to the playoffs in 2018 but unlike previous years, they're going to need some luck to make that happen.

Losing their best and highest paid players on the defensive side of the ball can't continue to happen year in and year out if this team is to advance in the playoffs.

I really don't see Veach getting a top left guard in free agency.

The Chiefs have already given big contracts to Fisher, Schwartz and LDT, with Morse likely to be handed a new contract this season.

I say you draft a guard in the 2nd to 4th round and make it a competition with Ehinger, Erving and possibly someone else in training camp.

Just make sure you have strong depth and that should be plenty good enough IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

I say you draft a guard in the 2nd to 4th round and make it a competition with Ehinger, Erving and possibly someone else in training camp.

Just make sure you have strong depth and that should be plenty good enough IMO.

No.

The Chiefs haven't had a bonafide starting Left Guard since the days of Brian Waters. They've drafted guys like Jeff Allen and Donald Stephenson and Ehinger from the 2-4th rounds and none were even close to the answer. Dorsey traded for and gave Ben Grubbs a huge contract and he was a spectacular bust.

Wiztmann was awful, Fulton doesn't have the mobility and there's no one currently on the roster that can be an even average left guard in the ground game AND pass pro.

The Chiefs are awful at 3rd and goal, 3rd and short and especially 4th and short. They need a piledriver and a pass protector, not another "Project" and with all of their defensive holes, can't afford to waste a 2nd or 3rd on a guard.

Veach needs to get someone in Free Agency.

Norwell locks down the position for the next 5 years.

[staylor26]

I really don't see Veach getting a top left guard in free agency.

The Chiefs have already given big contracts to Fisher, Schwartz and LDT, with Morse likely to be handed a new contract this season.

I say you draft a guard in the 2nd to 4th round and make it a competition with Ehinger, Erving and possibly someone else in training camp.

Just make sure you have strong depth and that should be plenty good enough IMO.

We can afford it because we don’t have much money invested elsewhere on offense once Alex is gone.

We might as well invest in the OL while we have Mahomes, Tyreek, Hunt, and Conley on rookie deals.

[DaneMcCloud]

We can afford it because we don’t have much money invested elsewhere on offense once Alex is gone.

We might as well invest in the OL while we have Mahomes, Tyreek, Hill, Conley etc. on rookie deals.

Exactly.

Kelce, Fisher, Schwartz and LDT are locked up for the next several years. I'd expect them to sign Fulton but not extend Morse at this time.

Considering that there's not much of a talent pool on the defensive side of the ball in Free Agency, Veach would be smart to lock down a guard for the next 5 years.

That way, he can focus on the defensive side of the ball for at least the next couple of drafts, then get back to the offensive line and wide receivers in 2020.

[RunKC]

I think Veach can sign a handful of mid market players on defense to help fill the gaps and make the depth/talent overall better. There are some good players out there:

Connor Barwin-5 sacks last year. 17 in last 3 years. $3.5 million 2017 cap hit.
Erik Walden-4 sacks last year. 18 in last 3 years. $3.25 million 2017 cap hit.
Mike Pennel-very good NT prospect. Projected as $5 million player.
Justin Ellis-only good Oakland DL. Most likely will cost $5 million.
Eric Reid-very good box safety. Could probably get for $8 million.
DaQuan Jones-very good DL. Probably a $5 million player.

We have a lot of options.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think Veach can sign a handful of mid market players on defense to help fill the gaps and make the depth/talent overall better. There are some good players out there:

Connor Barwin-5 sacks last year. 17 in last 3 years. $3.5 million 2017 cap hit.
Erik Walden-4 sacks last year. 18 in last 3 years. $3.25 million 2017 cap hit.
Mike Pennel-very good NT prospect. Projected as $5 million player.
Justin Ellis-only good Oakland DL. Most likely will cost $5 million.
Eric Reid-very good box safety. Could probably get for $8 million.
DaQuan Jones-very good DL. Probably a $5 million player.

We have a lot of options.

Barwin is 31 years old and the Chiefs can't get into a bidding war with the Rams.

Erik Walden was a Chief at one point (played for Manny at Middle Tennessee State). He's been out there several times and they always passed. He'll be 33 years old to start the season.

Convincing Jones to leave the Titans might be a tough call. They've got $50 million in cap space and aren't likely to allow him to leave for $5 million per.

The Jets have $72 million in cap space so I doubt they allow Pennel to exit.

Eric Reid comes with the type of baggage that Clark Hunt is trying to avoid.

[Easy 6]

Yeah Danes right, it seems pretty clear that going FA at the LG spot is the way to go

Any cant miss badass like Quenton Nelson will likely be gone by the time we get to pick, whereas a FA gives you a guy with little guesswork involved... you'd know to a near certainty that he can step right in and perform at a high level

And while I'd love to see a #2 TE and a bigger receiver brought in, I'd be perfectly fine doing nothing there so long as LG is locked down with a do it all brute

Mahomes can make hay with the skill guys already in place, but he cant block for himself or Hunt

[The Franchise]

I think you meant to say Alex's failure, right?

ROFL ROFL

Like I said, every single and composite thing on the franchise has an excuse, except Alex. And now we're passing that on to Patrick, with the caveat that those who have bitched about Alex most are now switching their demands from championships to 'exciting' games, and if he fails we won't complain because at least we 'tried.'

Don’t put words in my mouth. I said the fucking OFFENSE.

[Bwana]

Par

[Chiefnj2]

The Chiefs are awful at 3rd and goal, 3rd and short and especially 4th and short. They need a piledriver and a pass protector, not another "Project" and with all of their defensive holes, can't afford to waste a 2nd or 3rd on a guard.

.

According to football outsiders KC was the #1 power success ranked team.

Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

[Iowanian]

The Chiefs are tone deaf Morons.


I'm just going to be happy to save the money on Sunday ticket and have my sundays for other things. I'm inclined to just watch on DVR if they're on regional tv.

[Easy 6]

According to football outsiders KC was the #1 power success ranked team.

Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

I posted that thread from PFF and Outsiders, and their conclusion on that simply doesnt make any sense

It exposed the limits of their knowledge IMO... because our short yardage run games sucks. ass.

[Iowanian]

Andy.....If "it worked out" with Alex....He'd have made a drive at end of the game and the Chiefs would have had more than another 1 and done...and might have a game left.

Andy....You're a shithole playcaller.

[ping2000]

Boo. Fuck the Chiefs. Someone push Bob into traffic.

[rtmike]

Remember when Andy made his longtime offensive co. friend the D co. with Eggles?

After a handful of games is surprised it’s not working and keeps him on. This is the Andy I hate.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

It would be just like the Chiefs to draft a rookie QB for the first time in over 30 years and then completely waste the first two years of his rookie deal.

This post makes me want to stab my own eyes out because of how true it is.

[Easy 6]

Remember when Andy made his longtime offensive co. friend the D co. with Eggles?

After a handful of games is surprised it’s not working and keeps him on. This is the Andy I hate.

The worst part is that Juan Castillo only lasted a year, Suttons reign has lasted much longer

A lot of these guys make very compelling cases for Bad Bob, and the injuries he has had to work through the last few years... yet guys like Hali and Houston were the terror of the NFL back when Indy came back from 28 down

Fact is, Bobs scheme is constantly picked apart in the second halves of games... if his original plan wont work for 60 minutes, it often ends in horrific fashion

He cant adjust on the fly for SHIT

[Chiefnj2]

I posted that thread from PFF and Outsiders, and their conclusion on that simply doesnt make any sense

It exposed the limits of their knowledge IMO... because our short yardage run games sucks. ass.

The Outsider numbers are stats, I don't think it is really open to debate like a grade is. They just plug in numbers.

[gblowfish]

Boy, so far this off season has been just chock full of good news!

[Chief Roundup]

Boy, so far this off season has been just chock full of good news!

I am waiting to hear the next bit of bad news. It probably won't happen until around the draft. Of course that is that Smith was always going to be a part of the 2018 Chiefs.

[DaneMcCloud]

I am waiting to hear the next bit of bad news. It probably won't happen until around the draft. Of course that is that Smith was always going to be a part of the 2018 Chiefs.

Wrong

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/25/cl...ior-bowl-notes

• 2018 League Year opens, March 14. At 4 p.m., teams can deal for Alex Smith.

Obviously, the pieces of a trade can be put in place beforehand—the Chiefs have already started to discuss it—but this is when the trigger can be pulled.

[Easy 6]

The Outsider numbers are stats, I don't think it is really open to debate like a grade is. They just plug in numbers.

There must be something wrong with how they add/formulate the numbers then... because or power game sucks

Seriously, what do your eyes tell you time and again?

[Iowanian]

This puts Andy Reid on a very short string before losing this entire fanbase(except the homers who still think Cassel was good)

[Bewbies]

This puts Andy Reid on a very short string before losing this entire fanbase(except the homers who still think Cassel was good)

Smith fans on here say hi. (From under their desks)

[NJChiefsFan]

I think you meant to say Alex's failure, right?

ROFL ROFL

Like I said, every single and composite thing on the franchise has an excuse, except Alex. And now we're passing that on to Patrick, with the caveat that those who have bitched about Alex most are now switching their demands from championships to 'exciting' games, and if he fails we won't complain because at least we 'tried.'

But aren't you avoiding laying a fair amount of blame on Alex as much as others are avoiding to give him the same excuses they give other facets of the team? That's how it comes off anyway.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Jimmys and Joes make X's and O's much easier.

We were hurting in the Jimmys and Joe category a ton this year. You could have Buddy Ryan or Dick Labeau calling the D this year and they would have struggled with no Eric Berry, Frank Zombo playing outside backer and god love him, a too old DJ playing inside backer and Houston being 75% of his formal self.

[Chief Roundup]

Wrong

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/25/cl...ior-bowl-notes

• 2018 League Year opens, March 14. At 4 p.m., teams can deal for Alex Smith.

Obviously, the pieces of a trade can be put in place beforehand—the Chiefs have already started to discuss it—but this is when the trigger can be pulled.

I seen that you had that posted before I posted the statement that I made that you qouted.
I was getting at that I won't be surprised if we don't get offered "enough" for Reid/Veach to trade Smith on the first day that we can trade him. I also wouldn't be surprised if it is a draft day trade or after the draft for next year draft picks.

[Baby Lee]

But aren't you avoiding laying a fair amount of blame on Alex as much as others are avoiding to give him the same excuses they give other facets of the team? That's how it comes off anyway.

Maybe if you haven't paid enough attention.

I've given detailed opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of many aspects of the team. But because I'm not completely derisive of Alex and focus on the team as a whole, people try to paint me as an apologist rather than discuss my positions.

For a while I went into further detail and laid out all sorts of shortcomings and superlatives and laid out my expectations of the team and the position. And the same 'trolls' try to misrepresent my stance.

So I stopped putting the work to explain myself fully with every post.

Then I get guff for not giving proper respect to the thousands who largely agreed with me, but never said anything. I'm accused of unfairly imputing the views of those who actually post their [largely hate filled] opinions to the silent majority.

I've never, not from the first day, held up Alex as a savior or elite. I've always positioned him as someone who can win with a quality team.

[DaneMcCloud]

I seen that you had that posted before I posted the statement that I made that you qouted.
I was getting at that I won't be surprised if we don't get offered "enough" for Reid/Veach to trade Smith on the first day that we can trade him. I also wouldn't be surprised if it is a draft day trade or after the draft for next year draft picks.

Reid traded AJ Feeley for a 2nd round pick
Reid traded Kevin Kolb for a 2nd round pick
Reid traded Donovan McNabb for a 2nd round pick

See a pattern?

[Chief Roundup]

Reid traded AJ Feeley for a 2nd round pick
Reid traded Kevin Kolb for a 2nd round pick
Reid traded Donovan McNabb for a 2nd round pick

See a pattern?

Where did I say it would not happen?
I stated that I won't be surprised if it did not.
Reid stated that getting rid of Sutton was never even a though even though fans and analysts thought he should.
He mentioned that he didn't bench Alex with fans and analysts thought he should with a comment of "Look how that turned out" like a one and done in the playoffs is good enough.
See a pattern there too?

[petegz28]

The only thing dumber than having the DC who blew 2-18+ point leads in playoff games, is keeping him around to do it a 3rd time....

[Jimmya]

Sirius sports had a great 5 minute talk on KC. Reporter #1 "is it not totally AMAZING how Andy Reid is doing EXACTLY what he did in Philadelphia, to the mirror with defending the defensive coordinator." Reporter #2 "sadly it will end the same way as it did in Philadelphia. May be all the rumors of how stubborn Andy Reid is are true... I wouldn't be surprised if he still has Alex Smith starting for KC next year."

[ping2000]

Let's give the old crusty fart a break. If he gets 10-11 first round draft picks he can take this defense from 32nd to 29th easy.

[Easy 6]

Jimmys and Joes make X's and O's much easier.

We were hurting in the Jimmys and Joe category a ton this year. You could have Buddy Ryan or Dick Labeau calling the D this year and they would have struggled with no Eric Berry, Frank Zombo playing outside backer and god love him, a too old DJ playing inside backer and Houston being 75% of his formal self.

Looks like 50% legit argument, and 50% cheap excuses to me

Why couldnt he sub in Kpass for Zombo on passing downs, and roll the dice on legit athletic ability being able to pressure?

What makes you think Houston was only 75%? He was more than capable at the end of the year, Sutton was simply too scared to take a risk and too often dropped him into coverages he isnt suited for anyway

Sutton is the Alex Smith of defensive coordinators... he likes to race out to hot starts, then gets too cozy and tries to safely coast through the rest of the game

He freaking sucks, our only hope is to add just talent this year to mask his lack of aggression

[BossChief]

We should start to hear some rumors about Alex at the scouting combine.

[NJChiefsFan]

Maybe if you haven't paid enough attention.

I've given detailed opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of many aspects of the team. But because I'm not completely derisive of Alex and focus on the team as a whole, people try to paint me as an apologist rather than discuss my positions.

For a while I went into further detail and laid out all sorts of shortcomings and superlatives and laid out my expectations of the team and the position. And the same 'trolls' try to misrepresent my stance.

So I stopped putting the work to explain myself fully with every post.

Then I get guff for not giving proper respect to the thousands who largely agreed with me, but never said anything. I'm accused of unfairly imputing the views of those who actually post their [largely hate filled] opinions to the silent majority.

I've never, not from the first day, held up Alex as a savior or elite. I've always positioned him as someone who can win with a quality team.

I guess I didn't. Fair enough. It's become hard to keep track and with the extreme spectrum that now exist it's difficult to see through the fog sometimes.

[All In]

When we have had a pass rush we played the CB's 15 yards off..

When we weren't great at the pass rush we dropped our best pass rusher into coverage and played the CB's 15 yards off...

When it's 3rd and long we rush 3 and play the CB's 15 yards off....

Then we wonder why the team that started inside their 20 is suddenly inside our 20?

Bingo

[Easy 6]

Bingo

:hmmm:

[SuperBowl4]

Why hasn't another team tried to lure Sutton away from Kansas City?

[mschiefs1984]

Why hasn't another team tried to lure Sutton away from Kansas City?

Because they are smarter then Andy Reid

[Easy 6]

Why hasn't another team tried to lure Sutton away from Kansas City?

Uhhh yeah, wow... when you put it that way

Is anyone blowing up the phones trying to steal Bad Bob?

No?

Nah I didnt think so

[SuperBowl4]

Because they are smarter then Andy ReidExactly

[Dave Lane]

If Alex is back.....I'm done for that season. Someone let me know when Mahomes is the starter because I won't be watching until he is.

I might be done for good. They start Smiff and the Chiefs are dead to me.

[MVChiefFan]

It should be telling, that when you see Sutton on the sidelines, he has the same look on his face as my dementia stricken grandfather.

[ping2000]

It should be telling, that when you see Sutton on the sidelines, he has the same look on his face as my dementia stricken grandfather.Prayers for your grandfather. I'm sure he is a nice man. Please don't compare him to Sutton. Sutton is a fucking leach, stuck to Andy's small fat man cock.

[gblowfish]

Well, Sutton's mom is probably long gone. So, what if his daughter got a CP account and started posting stuff like this:

How much "Daddy" loves his job working for Coach Reid, and he shows up on time every day whether he feels good or not, and he's tried very very hard every single day that he's been here, and he can't help it if some of his best players got hurt, and guys like (oh say) Terrence Mitchell are learning and trying and just doing the very best they can.... and how mean it is for you "so called" Chiefs fans to criticize him when he just loves working for the Chiefs? He's such a good person and a good dad....?

You know, if something like that were to happen???

[Red Beans]

Well, Sutton's mom is probably long gone. So, what if his daughter got a CP account and started posting stuff like this:

How much "Daddy" loves his job working for Coach Reid, and he shows up on time every day whether he feels good or not, and he's tried very very hard every single day that he's been here, and he can't help it if some of his best players got hurt, and guys like (oh say) Terrence Mitchell are learning and trying and just doing the very best they can.... and how mean it is for you "so called" Chiefs fans to criticize him when he just loves working for the Chiefs? He's such a good person and a good dad....?

You know, if something like that were to happen???

I feel like this HAS happened...but not in exactly the same way. I just cannot put my finger on it.

[Easy 6]

Mr Blowfish, you should really just let this weird grudge die

[gblowfish]

Mr Blowfish, you should really just let this weird grudge die
I'm just sayin Bob Sutton has loved ones too!

[Easy 6]

I'm just sayin Bob Sutton has loved ones too!

If your son were playing pro ball, wouldnt you be out there defending him?

You're welcome to your opinion, I'm done here

[ILChief]

Maybe an XFL team will hire him as a head coach

[raybec 4]

Are we witnessing a secret cat fight?

[Easy 6]

Are we witnessing a secret cat fight?

Not with me lol, Mr Blowfish and I are good e-pals... not even politics can change that

We just differ a bit on this issue

[ping2000]

Well, Sutton's mom is probably long gone. So, what if his daughter got a CP account and started posting stuff like this:

How much "Daddy" loves his job working for Coach Reid, and he shows up on time every day whether he feels good or not, and he's tried very very hard every single day that he's been here, and he can't help it if some of his best players got hurt, and guys like (oh say) Terrence Mitchell are learning and trying and just doing the very best they can.... and how mean it is for you "so called" Chiefs fans to criticize him when he just loves working for the Chiefs? He's such a good person and a good dad....?

You know, if something like that were to happen???I would tell her the world needs ditch diggers too. Or greeters at Walmart.

[gblowfish]

Easy 6 and I are all good. I thought somebody was being a mult pretending to be Gaines' mom and I lit into her because IMHO Gaines sucks and should be cut. I apologized for saying some pretty unvarnished things. And I'm all good with her too now.

So its all good...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

At least he can whip up a plan to still beat Denver with his 3rd stringers...

[ILChief]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/iSxPmDWr97248/giphy.gif

[ILChief]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3D5NoWFC2TFHa/giphy.gif

[Kman34]

At least he can whip up a plan to still beat Denver with his 3rd stringers...

Mahomes 2018

[old_geezer]

Late to the party but I'll put my two cents worth in also. With the news that Sutton is staying my hopes for next year were completely crushed. With Sutton running the defense and Fat Andy calling the offensive plays I have no reason to hope for anything different than what has happened over and over before. It doesn't matter if we start out 6-0 or even 9-0, we will blow it. We will crawl into a shell and let the other team have their way with us. Add to that my growing belief that Smith will be back also and I have no expectations, no hope.

[jspchief]

Wait... Gaines' mom posts here? I need to neg rep her for not dropping a plan B on that stain.

[displacedinMN]

Late to the party but I'll put my two cents worth in also. With the news that Sutton is staying my hopes for next year were completely crushed. With Sutton running the defense and Fat Andy calling the offensive plays I have no reason to hope for anything different than what has happened over and over before. It doesn't matter if we start out 6-0 or even 9-0, we will blow it. We will crawl into a shell and let the other team have their way with us. Add to that my growing belief that Smith will be back also and I have no expectations, no hope.

+1. Just got less excited for next year.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Gaines came out of college with a lot of potential but the injuries got to him and maybe the scheme just didn't work out for him.

We gave up on Marcus Cooper and he had a nice season with the Cardinals.

Really needs to find a situation that clicks for him.

[mlyonsd]

Late to the party but I'll put my two cents worth in also. With the news that Sutton is staying my hopes for next year were completely crushed. With Sutton running the defense and Fat Andy calling the offensive plays I have no reason to hope for anything different than what has happened over and over before. It doesn't matter if we start out 6-0 or even 9-0, we will blow it. We will crawl into a shell and let the other team have their way with us. Add to that my growing belief that Smith will be back also and I have no expectations, no hope.

+2.

[stumppy]

Late to the party but I'll put my two cents worth in also. With the news that Sutton is staying my hopes for next year were completely crushed. With Sutton running the defense and Fat Andy calling the offensive plays I have no reason to hope for anything different than what has happened over and over before. It doesn't matter if we start out 6-0 or even 9-0, we will blow it. We will crawl into a shell and let the other team have their way with us. Add to that my growing belief that Smith will be back also and I have no expectations, no hope.

+3

Fuck Andy Reid

[staylor26]

I’m not exactly thrilled to bring Sutton back, but everybody that is giving up after we finally drafted a 1st round QB (and aggressively traded up to get him) is a fucking pussy.

It’s like some of you forgot why that was the biggest issue with this franchise.

[RunKC]

Every PFF grade for the entire defense

https://mobile.twitter.com/Super_G_Chiefs/status/957019988493291526

How Sutton had these scrubs give up as few of points as they did is a mystery.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Keeping Sutton is probably a mistake, but with the QB on a rookie contract for the next 3 seasons, they have a chance to get max value out of their cap dollars and really load up the defense with talent, something Sutton could badly use.

And it doesn't all need to spent this year either. I don't want Veach throwing all of the money away in 2018 by overspending on guys who won't make a huge difference. Good chance the 2019 FA class is much better in certain positions. It's absolutely critical that we hit on some picks these next couple of years as well, so that the FA signings are made to plug just a few holes here or there.

Again, I think Sutton should have been canned. But, if Veach does a good job, we will wind up with a ton of overall talent given that the QB is worth $4M per year on the cap until 2020. As maddening as his schemes have been, the talent on our defense was pretty putrid by January.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Every PFF grade for the entire defense

https://mobile.twitter.com/Super_G_Chiefs/status/957019988493291526

How Sutton had these scrubs give up as few of points as they did is a mystery.

****ing sickening amount of 'poor' grades. Every OLB not named Houston was 'poor'. Every corner not named Peters or Nelson. Sorensen and Parker graded terribly.

Many of us, myself included, were fooled by Dorsey. I thought he did a much better job than this.

[bigjosh]

Every PFF grade for the entire defense

https://mobile.twitter.com/Super_G_Chiefs/status/957019988493291526

How Sutton had these scrubs give up as few of points as they did is a mystery.

"Fire Sutton, its not a personnel problem!1!!1!" -Everyone on arrowheadpride

[RunKC]

****ing sickening amount of 'poor' grades. Every OLB not named Houston was 'poor'. Every corner not named Peters or Nelson. Sorensen and Parker graded terribly.

Many of us, myself included, were fooled by Dorsey. I thought he did a much better job than this.

Sutton deserves at least 1 more year. It’s clear as day that Dorsey screwed us. While he did a fantastic job in his first year with 1st dibs on the waiver wire, he monumentally fucked up on many pieces.

Ford and Gaines were flashes in the pan, KeiVarae Russell was a disaster and he couldn’t fill holes on this roster.

Nico Johnson, Ramik Wilson, Josh Mauga, Justin March-Lillard at ILB. KeiVarae Russell, DJ White, Phillip Gaines, Kenneth Acker, Terrance Mitchell at CB.

Veach needs to hit FA hard and get a handful of proven mid market FA’s to fill these holes.

[Coogs]

Sutton's Rushing Defense:

2017 - 25th
2016 - 26th
2015 - 8th
2014 - 28th
2013 - 22nd

One of these is not like the others. There was a time I was in favor of the 3-4. I thought we would run it like the Steelers, but we don't. We have failed at rushing defense in 4 of the 5 seasons. Failure at the rush defense means you have to commit more defensive backs to the run to help out. That leaves the pass defense vulnerable.

Since we are not going to switch the scheme, IMO, a huge commitment to the front 7 needs to be made. We have a few keepers in the front 7, but a lot of cap casualties need to come from the front 7 and it needs to be re-tooled.

[Easy 6]

I've been fairly defensive of the guy in the past, but yeah its pretty clear that Dorsey got too much credit

Between the horrible contracts, and long list of washouts... it was time to move on

[JakeF]

I've been fairly defensive of the guy in the past, but yeah its pretty clear that Dorsey got too much credit

Between the horrible contracts, and long list of washouts... it was time to move onI don't really believe that. We've had rumored interest in Manziel and Lynch in prior drafts. Reid has final say on this team, and I fully believe Mahomes was at least partly drafted due to Reid.
I'm trying to figure this out. So anytime something bad happens its because of Dorsey and/or Alex Smith. When anything good happens it's because of Veach and/or Reid? Guys leaving are bad, guys staying are good?

[Coogs]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.

[JakeF]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.I think that if we were going to gut the defense we would have also changed some coaches.

[Sandy Vagina]

I'm trying to figure this out. So anytime something bad happens its because of Dorsey and/or Alex Smith. When anything good happens it's because of Veach and/or Reid? Guys leaving are bad, guys staying are good?

You know what... I was JUST thinking this over before reading your post.

Not saying who is to blame with certainty on this... just that forum fans do have an inclination for self preservation, when it comes to keeping their fandom going strong.

It's at the very least, a fascinating theory.. :hmmm:

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I'm trying to figure this out. So anytime something bad happens its because of Dorsey and/or Alex Smith. When anything good happens it's because of Veach and/or Reid? Guys leaving are bad, guys staying are good?

Well, he was probably fired for a reason, right? Mahomes was probably drafted for a reason, right?

Fucking idiot.

[RunKC]

I'm trying to figure this out. So anytime something bad happens its because of Dorsey and/or Alex Smith. When anything good happens it's because of Veach and/or Reid? Guys leaving are bad, guys staying are good?

You must be new to the board. Andy has been criticized as much as anyone.

[bigjosh]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.

Houston would cost 12.7M in dead money to cut. Fuck that.

Everyone else on the list can eat a dick though.

[Coogs]

I think that if we were going to gut the defense we would have also changed some coaches.

I get what you are saying. Like I said, this is JMO. Get rid of the overpriced under performing players. Every spot does not have to be filled this season with HOF'ers. Even if it takes 2 years to rebuild this thing, get started on it now. Because realistically, we are not heading to the Super Bowl next season in Mahomes's first season behind center. Have the Super Bowl caliber defense in place by year 2 (or 3) of the Mahomes era... and let's roll!

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Sutton's Rushing Defense:

2017 - 25th
2016 - 26th
2015 - 8th
2014 - 28th
2013 - 22nd

One of these is not like the others. There was a time I was in favor of the 3-4. I thought we would run it like the Steelers, but we don't. We have failed at rushing defense in 4 of the 5 seasons. Failure at the rush defense means you have to commit more defensive backs to the run to help out. That leaves the pass defense vulnerable.

Since we are not going to switch the scheme, IMO, a huge commitment to the front 7 needs to be made. We have a few keepers in the front 7, but a lot of cap casualties need to come from the front 7 and it needs to be re-tooled.

"Our defense has been top 10 for 5 years" - Clay

[TRR]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.

I’ll give you Smith, Tamba, and Revis. A maybe on Bailey (played hurt nearly all season), and DJ if he won’t take a cap friendly deal. And lastly, a hard no on Houston and Parker. Houston was one year removed from his injury, and Parker was forced to play every snap on defense due to the injuries at the safety position.

[Sandy Vagina]

"Our defense has been top 10 for 5 years" - Clay

ROFL ... :clap:

[Coogs]

Houston would cost 12.7M in dead money to cut. **** that.

Everyone else on the list can eat a dick though.

:shrug: It's not my money. We are not getting nearly $21,000,000 of production out of Houston, so I let him walk and re-build the front 7. Again, JMO.

[Sandy Vagina]

bigjosh is a schmuck, but he's right on JH.

Have to wait till after 2018, and then it becomes a real consideration for JH50.

[RunKC]

Top 10 in points allowed every year but 2017. Gave up only 18 points in the playoff game and 22 (league average) in the 2017 playoff game.

You aren’t winning when your offense can’t score more. Bortles and Keenum scored when their defense gave up more points than the Chiefs defense did.

Funny how that works.

[DaneMcCloud]

:shrug: It's not my money. We are not getting nearly $21,000,000 of production out of Houston, so I let him walk and re-build the front 7. Again, JMO.

:facepalm:

[pugsnotdrugs19]

"Our defense has been top 10 for 5 years" - Clay

I missed the memo when run defense meant overall defense...

Scoring defense and turnovers are the two most important stats.

[Coogs]

I’ll give you Smith, Tamba, and Revis. A maybe on Bailey (played hurt nearly all season), and DJ if he won’t take a cap friendly deal. And lastly, a hard no on Houston and Parker. Houston was one year removed from his injury, and Parker was forced to play every snap on defense due to the injuries at the safety position.

Ehh! Parker is 30 and Houston 29. I'm building this thing for a couple 3 years down the road, not 2018.

[Coogs]

:facepalm:

I knew you wouldn't agree! :D

[Chris Meck]

I don't think the hit is all that bad to keep Revis. Draft a young CB early, but keep him. He could also transition inside to Safety ala Woodson; paired with a healthy Berry that'd be a pretty great safety tandem if your young draftee corner is ready to go. Plus, you spend so much time in nickel and dime defenses these days, why not?

[bigjosh]

I missed the memo when run defense meant overall defense...

Scoring defense and turnovers are the two most important stats.

Top 10 in points allowed every year but 2017. Gave up only 18 points in the playoff game and 22 (league average) in the 2017 playoff game.

You aren’t winning when your offense can’t score more. Bortles and Keenum scored when their defense gave up more points than the Chiefs defense did.

Funny how that works.

Do you think if everyone stopped talking to that cunt, he would eventually just go away?

[JakeF]

Well, he was probably fired for a reason, right? Mahomes was probably drafted for a reason, right?

Fucking idiot.
Mahomes was drafted by Dorsey before he left, wasn't he? Nobody but Clark Hunt knew that Dorsey was going to be fired until the day that Reid signed his contract.

[Coogs]

I missed the memo when run defense meant overall defense...

Scoring defense and turnovers are the two most important stats.

Last 5 Super Bowl winners rushing defense rank.


Last year : Patriots 3rd
Two years ago: Bronco's 3rd
Three years ago: Pats 9th (Seahawks were 1st)
Four years ago: Seahawks 7th

This year the Eagles are 1st


It's a pretty important stat.

[Chief Roundup]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.

Cutting Houston is beyond dumb. We are not going to replace every OLB in one off season.
We have a long list of FA that need to be resigned/replaced. We will be lucky to find starters with our 2cd, 3rd round picks. The others will be depth at best.

[Hammock Parties]

Last 5 Super Bowl winners rushing defense rank.


Last year : Patriots 3rd
Two years ago: Bronco's 3rd
Three years ago: Pats 9th (Seahawks were 1st)
Four years ago: Seahawks 7th

This year the Eagles are 1st


It's a pretty important stat.

2015 Chiefs had their chance.

[O.city]

Why cut Houston now? The time to cut him is next year if you want.

He’s a solution not a problem

[gblowfish]

Mellinger weighs in:
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article197016339.html

[DaneMcCloud]

I knew you wouldn't agree! :D

Yeah, because it's fucking stupid beyond belief. I can't believe that someone would actually advocate cutting the Chiefs best defensive player and in addition to that, take a $12 million dollar Dead Cap hit.

This might be the single dumbest idea in this entire thread.

[DaneMcCloud]

Why cut Houston now? The time to cut him is next year if you want.

He’s a solution not a problem

The Chiefs aren't cutting Houston.

He's their best outside linebacker and their best defensive player on the roster.

He's a 9.5 sack guy when there's no pressure from the defensive line, when the opposite OLBer is a verifiable tackling dummy, with two starting safeties that couldn't even tackle their own mothers.

It's a fucking stupid idea put forth by a guy that continually puts forth stupid ideas.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Mahomes was drafted by Dorsey before he left, wasn't he? Nobody but Clark Hunt knew that Dorsey was going to be fired until the day that Reid signed his contract.

You're fooling yourself if you think Andy Reid wasn't the man behind the wheel when it comes to Mahomes and QB evaluation. First we had Kingsbury say that he 'never spoke to Dorsey throughout the whole process, just Andy' and then an article comes out a couple of days ago suggesting that it was Reid, Nagy, and the QB assistant who met with Mahomes before the draft to grill him for 6 hours.

Andy Reid runs this offense and he's going to decide who his QB is, especially the guy that they traded up 17 spots for to pick 10.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

The Chiefs aren't cutting Houston.

He's their best outside linebacker and their best defensive player on the roster.

He's a 9.5 sack guy when there's no pressure from the defensive line, when the opposite OLBer is a verifiable tackling dummy, with two starting safeties that couldn't even tackle their own mothers.

And when he's dropping into coverage 1/3 of the time...

I expect him to put up much prettier numbers next year after another offseason removed from surgery. The personnel will improve, as it can't get worse than Zombo.

People need to chill on the cut Houston takes.

[Easy 6]

I don't think the hit is all that bad to keep Revis. Draft a young CB early, but keep him. He could also transition inside to Safety ala Woodson; paired with a healthy Berry that'd be a pretty great safety tandem if your young draftee corner is ready to go. Plus, you spend so much time in nickel and dime defenses these days, why not?

If we could grab Rashaan Melvin in free agency, I'd be cool with ditching Revis

But yeah, other than that I wouldnt wanna bet everything on the 2nd round rookie we hopefully take.. we need a reliable veteran across from Peters, be it Melvin, Revis, or someone else

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think the hit is all that bad to keep Revis. Draft a young CB early, but keep him. He could also transition inside to Safety ala Woodson; paired with a healthy Berry that'd be a pretty great safety tandem if your young draftee corner is ready to go. Plus, you spend so much time in nickel and dime defenses these days, why not?

If we could grab Rashaan Melvin in free agency, I'd be cool with ditching Revis

But yeah, other than that I wouldnt wanna bet everything on the 2nd round rookie we hopefully take.. we need a reliable veteran across from Peters, be it Melvin, Revis, or someone else

There's no way the Chiefs keep Revis under his current contract because he's due a $550,000 Roster Bonus for each game he's on the 53, which would make the total value of his contract more than $13 million dollars.

They'll cut him for sure.

Whether they re-sign him to a more Cap Friendly deal remains to be seen.

[Easy 6]

There's no way the Chiefs keep Revis under his current contract because he's due a $550,000 Roster Bonus for each game he's on the 53, which would make the total value of his contract more than $13 million dollars.

They'll cut him for sure.

Whether they re-sign him to a more Cap Friendly deal remains to be seen.

Yeah, that contract would definitely need to be reworked

But honestly, pretty sure I'd rather just get a younger guy (28) like Melvin and tell grandpa to hit the skids

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, that contract would definitely need to be reworked

But honestly, pretty sure I'd rather just get a younger guy (28) like Melvin and tell grandpa to hit the skids

I wouldn't mind keeping Revis on the roster for $3-4 million per, as he's certainly better than Acker, Mitchell, Gaines and Reaser.

He and Peter's tackling issues won't be as exposed once Berry returns and especially if they draft another safety in the second round.

That said, I'm good with it either way but cornerback depth is difficult to find, or at least it has been for the Chiefs under Reid & Dorsey.

[Easy 6]

I wouldn't mind keeping Revis on the roster for $3-4 million per, as he's certainly better than Acker, Mitchell, Gaines and Reaser.

He and Peter's tackling issues won't be as exposed once Berry returns and especially if they draft another safety in the second round.

That said, I'm good with it either way but cornerback depth is difficult to find, or at least it has been for the Chiefs under Reid & Dorsey.

Right, we could definitely do worse than Revis... a full offseason with us would ensure he is in shape, in sync with his teammates, and ready to roll week 1

As long as they keep a reliable vet in that spot, it doesnt really matter to me who it is

[pugsnotdrugs19]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pro Football Focus categorizes players into six groups: Poor, Below Average, Average, Above Average, High Quality, and Elite.<br><br>In 2017, the Chiefs defense had 6,028 snaps from &quot;poor&quot; players, and 6,081 from all other groups. Somehow the Chiefs D finished 15th in points per game.</p>&mdash; Gary McKenzie (@Super_G_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/Super_G_Chiefs/status/956990015183220736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Hammock Parties]

Yep. I'll say it again.

Sutton performed miracles with a lacking talent group.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Yep. I'll say it again.

Sutton performed miracles with a lacking talent group.

I still don't like the usage of Peters and Houston, but I'll admit. I've probably been too hard on him as it pertains to 2017.

[DaneMcCloud]

I still don't like the usage of Peters and Houston, but I'll admit. I've probably been too hard on him as it pertains to 2017.

This issue squarely lands in the hands of John Dorsey.

In 5 full years, he failed to draft adequate cornerbacks, inside and outside linebackers and safeties

While he hit on Chris Jones, RNR, a 6th rounder, has been more of a surprise rather than a hit.

Veach has his work cut out for him.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

This issue squarely lands in the hands of John Dorsey.

In 5 full years, he failed to draft adequate cornerbacks, inside and outside linebackers and safeties

While he hit on Chris Jones, RNR, a 6th rounder, has been more of a surprise rather than a hit.

Veach has his work cut out for him.

I think he's gonna need to make good use of our cap dollars on that side of the ball this year, much like we did in 2013. Veach has to fill some holes right now while he tries to draft better players over the next few years to build a more solid foundation.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think he's gonna need to make good use of our cap dollars on that side of the ball this year, much like we did in 2013.

2013 was a mirage for Dorsey's personnel additions. The Chiefs had the #1 Waiver Priority for the initial 3 weeks of the season and were able to add Sean McGrath, Jay Howard, Marcus Cooper and Ron Parker for free.

Dorsey fucked up with Dunta Robinson and Anthony Fasano but did hit on Sean Smith.

As I've said for weeks, Veach should target Norwell and spend most, if not all, of his draft capital on defense.

Veach has to fill some holes right now while he tries to draft better players over the next few years to build a more solid foundation.

He can do it quickly IF he drafts players that are ready Week One and not guys that aren't ready until 2020, along with another trade or two.

Trades for Ragland and KPL indicate that he's looking for immediate impact players, which is what the Chiefs desperately need from this draft.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I wish we could find another Mike Devito type of end to play in the base package. He was one of the better additions Dorsey made, along with Abdullah.

I'm all in for Norwell as long as it doesn't cost us some insane amount. The highest paid guard right now is $12M per year, so I wouldn't do much more than that, if at all. I think for Mahomes' game, he's going to make hay with the weapons we've got. Give him a great line and the offense will be deadly.

[Coogs]

The Chiefs aren't cutting Houston.

He's their best outside linebacker and their best defensive player on the roster.

He's a 9.5 sack guy when there's no pressure from the defensive line, when the opposite OLBer is a verifiable tackling dummy, with two starting safeties that couldn't even tackle their own mothers.

It's a ****ing stupid idea put forth by a guy that continually puts forth stupid ideas.

Tim Grunhard doesn't agree with you. I will side with him.

http://www.810whb.com/border-patrol-podcast/

Go to the 43 minute mark.

Actually the whole podcast is decent.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I would add that while most people might not like the idea of paying up for Norwell, one has to remember that we are currently getting Schwartz for cheaper than he's worth, and LDT will be consider cheap very soon if not already. Fisher is a little overpriced but that's the LT dilemma.

We can afford that extra guard contract if need be imo.

[bigjosh]

bigjosh is a schmuck, but he's right on JH.

Have to wait till after 2018, and then it becomes a real consideration for JH50.

If you call me a schmuck, I must be doing something right!:thumb:

[DaneMcCloud]

Tim Grunhard doesn't agree with you. I will side with him.

I couldn't give a fucking rat's ass what you or Tim fucking Grunhard think

[ping2000]

Why can't he stay lost? I thought I drove him out where they couldn't find him.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180127/03b5e5f4437230eefe0ea9524e9ae755.jpg

[Coogs]

I couldn't give a ****ing rat's ass what you or Tim ****ing Grunhard think

I know. You face palmed me all of July and August too. And it turned out I wasn't so far off then either. Hell you were even yell for the same things at the end of the season that I was advocating for in July and August.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

I missed the memo when run defense meant overall defense...

Scoring defense and turnovers are the two most important stats.

Less turnovers by your offense -> worse starting field position for the opponent thus less points.

We have never had a decent run defense and that has killed us in the last 2 playoff games. Period.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Did some dipshit just say to cut Houston? JFC

[RealSNR]

Less turnovers by your offense -> worse starting field position for the opponent thus less points.



We have never had a decent run defense and that has killed us in the last 2 playoff games. Period.


As soon as not turning the ball over becomes the #1 priority instead of making plays and scoring points, you're putting pressure on your own defense.

[Coogs]

Did some dipshit just say to cut Houston? JFC

So you think he is worth $20,600,000 this season? Listen to Grunhard's take on him. Hell, he doesn't even have him in the top 4 players on our defense. And I don''t even know you, so no need for name calling.

[bigjosh]

So you think he is worth $20,600,000 this season? Listen to Grunhard's take on him. Hell, he doesn't even have him in the top 4 players on our defense. And I don''t even know you, so no need for name calling.

The chiefs would be paying him 12.7M to play elsewhere this season. Only 7.9M cap savings.

The real question you should ask is he worth 7.9M this year, because they can only recoup that amount.

Next year he would still cost over 7M in dead cap money. He is here until at least 2020, like it or not.

Maybe with some semblance of pass rush on the other side, or decent coverage he could start to look like the JH of a few years ago.

[Coogs]

The chiefs would be paying him 12.7M to play elsewhere this season. Only 7.9M cap savings.

The real question you should ask is he worth 7.9M this year, because they can only recoup that amount.

Next year he would still cost over 7M in dead cap money. He is here until at least 2020, like it or not.

Maybe with some semblance of pass rush on the other side, or decent coverage he could start to look like the JH of a few years ago.

We could designate him a post June 1 cut and save $15,000,000 this season. :shrug:

$15,000,000 could bring in 3, maybe 4 players who could do a whole lot more to fixing things on the defense than one player can offer. Again, this is JMO. I don't think we get to the Super Bowl next season with Mahomes. History is not on the side of 1st year starters. Fix the defense this year and next year, and let's roll.

[bigjosh]

We could designate him a post June 1 cut and save $15,000,000 this season. :shrug:

$15,000,000 could bring in 3, maybe 4 players who could do a whole lot more to fixing things on the defense than one player can offer. Again, this is JMO. I don't think we get to the Super Bowl next season with Mahomes. History is not on the side of 1st year starters. Fix the defense this year and next year, and let's roll.

I know Houston hasnt lived up to the contract, but he is a great player. I dont think getting rid of one of the most productive players(albeit less than a few years ago) would be a good look for the defense. Maybe Im wrong, but I think with Berry back, Ragland improving, a decent second corner, a decent OLB on the other side, a second ILB and some safety depth this defense will be much better. Those positions could be improved by the 50M cap space generated by getting rid of Smith, Hali, DJ, Parker, Bailey etc.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

The Houston hate will be far more quiet next year, IMO. He'll have someone not named Frank Zombo on the other side of the line, and a much more talented secondary to cover on the back end.

Many great pass rushers have had some of their best seasons at older ages. Houston is just 29, no need to give up on him right now.

[bigjosh]

The Houston hate will be far more quiet next year, IMO. He'll have someone not named Frank Zombo on the other side of the line, and a much more talented secondary to cover on the back end.

Many great pass rushers have had some of their best seasons at older ages. Houston is just 29, no need to give up on him right now.

Thats where I am at. Give him some support so he isnt the only guy in the front 7 worth a shit and watch him rape faces.

[Coogs]

The Houston hate will be far more quiet next year, IMO. He'll have someone not named Frank Zombo on the other side of the line, and a much more talented secondary to cover on the back end.

Many great pass rushers have had some of their best seasons at older ages. Houston is just 29, no need to give up on him right now.

I'm not a Houston hater pugs. Listen to Grunhard, It is an hour pod, but it is very good.

[RunKC]

Don’t care what Grunhard says. The Chiefs have zero edge rushers without him and this FA class is not strong by any means.

[RealSNR]

So you think he is worth $20,600,000 this season? Listen to Grunhard's take on him. Hell, he doesn't even have him in the top 4 players on our defense. And I don''t even know you, so no need for name calling.

He's not in the top 4 players on our own defense?!

Jesus, fuck Tim Grunhard. What an absolutely idiotic opinion.

[New World Order]

For God's sake let Houston actually rush the passer this season, Bob.

[Chief Roundup]

He's not in the top 4 players on our own defense?!

Jesus, fuck Tim Grunhard. What an absolutely idiotic opinion.

Peters, Berry, Jones and Ragland were mentioned as having a better year. Grunhard was asked the question and he danced around it a bit but mentioned those as players that might be better or play more important positions. He never said exactly that Houston was bad, he just didn't come out against the way the questions were being asked. If you listen to the podcast it starts just after the 43:00 minute mark.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not a Houston hater pugs. Listen to Grunhard, It is an hour pod, but it is very good.

Fuck Grunhard and fuck you.

Your “takes” have sucked for a decade.

Butt. Fucking. Moron.

[TRR]

Ehh! Parker is 30 and Houston 29. I'm building this thing for a couple 3 years down the road, not 2018.

With that logic you might as well cut Eric Berry.

[Coogs]

**** Grunhard and **** you.

Your “takes” have sucked for a decade.

Butt. ****ing. Moron.

Since you were spouting all of November and December exactly what I was suggesting in July and August... :hmmm:

[Warrior5]

For God's sake let Houston actually rush the passer this season, Bob.

Ditto X eleventy gazillion.

[ThaVirus]

Cutting Houston would be just about the dumbest fucking thing this franchise could do next to benching Mahomes for another year or trading Peters.

People really think we could replace seven or eight defensive positions in one offseason. Good Lord, some of you shouldn't be allowed an account to spread your fucking dumbassery.

[DaneMcCloud]

Since you were spouting all of November and December exactly what I was suggesting in July and August... :hmmm:

Wha...?

[DaneMcCloud]

Cutting Houston would be just about the dumbest fucking thing this franchise could do next to benching Mahomes for another year or trading Peters.

People really think we could replace seven or eight defensive positions in one offseason. Good Lord, some of you shouldn't be allowed an account to spread your fucking dumbassery.

THIS

[Reerun_KC]

With that logic you might as well cut Eric Berry.



If he can stay on the field I wouldn’t just yet.

[Coogs]

Cutting Houston would be just about the dumbest ****ing thing this franchise could do next to benching Mahomes for another year or trading Peters.

People really think we could replace seven or eight defensive positions in one offseason. Good Lord, some of you shouldn't be allowed an account to spread your ****ing dumbassery.

It's been done before. Even this season.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/nfl/saints/2017/09/14/new-orleans-saints-defense-looks-redemption-after-week-1-flop/667470001/

Saints safety Kenny Vaccaro appreciates why an outside observer might view the latest flop by New Orleans' defense as an extension of a three-year trend — even if he doesn't quite see it that way.

"Every year, it seems like this happens, so what are they supposed to say?" Vaccaro said before practice Wednesday. "The only way we can change that is if we put different results on the field. And I believe we'll do it. It was just Week 1. I'm not down. There are a lot of good teams that are 0-1 right now across the league."

Whatever the case, there's a lot to fix before facing Tom Brady and the Patriots this Sunday in the Superdome.

New Orleans' defensive ranking has been no better than 27th — and as low as 31st — during the past three seasons. The Saints also ranked last in the NFL in pass defense in 2016.


So there was a lot about Minnesota's 29-19 victory over New Orleans Monday night that looked familiar. New Orleans gave up 470 yards, including a slew of big plays. Vikings quarterback Sam Bradford completed all but five of his 32 passes for 346 yards and three touchdowns without a turnover in one of the best performances of his career.

Yet this season's Saints defense has seven new starters, including three rookies, and a defensive coordinator in Dennis Allen who is in only his second full season on the job. Furthermore, New Orleans' current defense allowed only five touchdowns during four preseason games — and only two through the air. During one stretch in the preseason, the Saints' defense held opponents without a touchdown for eight straight quarters.

"We've gotten better as a defense. We showed that in the preseason. I don't know what happened" in Minnesota, Vaccaro said. "It was kind of a thing where we were wrong on all levels of the defense. The secondary was missing plays, linebacker, (defensive) line. So it's kind of a thing where, was it a fluke, or are we delusional?

"All the guys are confident. We've shown that through camp. I haven't been this optimistic about a defense in a long time," Vaccaro continued. "I think we'll bounce back."

Certainly, Saints defenders could improve morale by viewing their latest performance as one bad game in a season largely unrelated to those that came before, considering the new faces in the lineup. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady sounded inclined to agree.

"I know they didn't get off to the start they wanted to in Minnesota, which means they're going to be really ready to go against us," Brady said. "They've got a lot of different looks. They've got some really talented players — some young, up-and-coming players."

Brady said he sees the Saints defense as "a whole new group of guys who are playing together for the first time, and I'm sure they'll get a lot better over the course of the season."

One of New Orleans' more prominent new defensive players is linebacker A.J. Klein, signed away from Carolina in free agency. He receives the defensive calls from Allen and relays them to teammates.

"We have a long season ahead of us and I think there are a little bit of growing pains that go along with Week 1," Klein said. "We have to be better in communicating in our third-down situations. We had some completions for first downs that were just communication errors — things that can be fixed between us and the rest of the back seven. But it was obviously a lackluster performance and I think a lot of it was self-inflicted."

The rookies in the starting lineup were cornerback Marshon Lattimore, safety Marcus Williams and linebacker Alex Anzelone, who were all drafted in the first three rounds last spring. Another starter, cornerback P.J. Williams, was a 2015 third-rounder who, because of injuries the past two years, was playing in only his third NFL game.

He mostly witnessed from the sideline problems New Orleans had defensively the previous two seasons, and asserts that the unit is much different now.

"This is definitely not going to be a last two-, three-years type of defense," P.J. Williams said. "We're going to be a good defense and I definitely think you're all going to see it within these next few weeks."

[Coogs]

Wha...?

Look it up. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

Your kind of like the Kevin Keitzman of the Chiefsplanet. If someone has a different opinion than you, you just raise your voice level as if somehow talking in a louder voice makes you smarter.

[RealSNR]

Peters, Berry, Jones and Ragland were mentioned as having a better year. Grunhard was asked the question and he danced around it a bit but mentioned those as players that might be better or play more important positions. He never said exactly that Houston was bad, he just didn't come out against the way the questions were being asked. If you listen to the podcast it starts just after the 43:00 minute mark.

No. Fuck no on Jones. He's not consistent enough.

And can we pump the brakes on Ragland? He's a nice player, but he plays ILB. Grunhard actually said he plays a more important position? Christ, you might have a case if he played as well as DJ in his prime, but he's not even close to being that good yet, and I don't think he has the speed to cover ground fast enough like DJ did. Again, he's a solid starter. He's doing his job. That's not being a top player on this defense or being asked to do the 1000 fucking things that Justin Houston is being asked to do by Sutton.

Two months ago I thought everybody fucking hated Peters' guts, including the KC media? What happened, now he's back to being important when we realize what AIDS we have at the CB position besides him? People are starting to realize that a CB who doesn't consistently tackle or put up the effort to tackle isn't that big of a fucking deal if you can cover like he can?

Grunhard's a moron to even suggest it. I don't even fucking care about context or how he was trying to massage the statement or suggest it. He's a buttfucking moron.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Ragland looks like a really good option at MIKE LB that we've been looking to find for so long now, but kinda like SNR alluded to, he's not going to be prime DJ. Probably ever. They didn't use him as a three down ILB last year, and I don't expect them to this year.

Maybe Eligwe becomes that guy, I don't know what they think of him there. KPL is a FA and obviously has an issue to deal with.

WILB looks like a need.

[DaneMcCloud]

Look it up. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

Your kind of like the Kevin Keitzman of the Chiefsplanet. If someone has a different opinion than you, you just raise your voice level as if somehow talking in a louder voice makes you smarter.

And you're like the RoyIII of Chiefsplanet.

You're a fucking dumbass that continually spews dumbassery.

And you're going to call ME out motherfucker, you'd better back that shit up.

[KCUnited]

WILB fine

[DaneMcCloud]

Grunhard's a moron to even suggest it. I don't even fucking care about context or how he was trying to massage the statement or suggest it. He's a buttfucking moron.

Which also makes "Coogs" a buttfucking moron, which we already knew

[Chiefshrink]

It's been done before. Even this season.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/nfl/saints/2017/09/14/new-orleans-saints-defense-looks-redemption-after-week-1-flop/667470001/

Saints safety Kenny Vaccaro appreciates why an outside observer might view the latest flop by New Orleans' defense as an extension of a three-year trend — even if he doesn't quite see it that way.

"Every year, it seems like this happens, so what are they supposed to say?" Vaccaro said before practice Wednesday. "The only way we can change that is if we put different results on the field. And I believe we'll do it. It was just Week 1. I'm not down. There are a lot of good teams that are 0-1 right now across the league."

Whatever the case, there's a lot to fix before facing Tom Brady and the Patriots this Sunday in the Superdome.

New Orleans' defensive ranking has been no better than 27th — and as low as 31st — during the past three seasons. The Saints also ranked last in the NFL in pass defense in 2016.


So there was a lot about Minnesota's 29-19 victory over New Orleans Monday night that looked familiar. New Orleans gave up 470 yards, including a slew of big plays. Vikings quarterback Sam Bradford completed all but five of his 32 passes for 346 yards and three touchdowns without a turnover in one of the best performances of his career.

Yet this season's Saints defense has seven new starters, including three rookies, and a defensive coordinator in Dennis Allen who is in only his second full season on the job. Furthermore, New Orleans' current defense allowed only five touchdowns during four preseason games — and only two through the air. During one stretch in the preseason, the Saints' defense held opponents without a touchdown for eight straight quarters.

"We've gotten better as a defense. We showed that in the preseason. I don't know what happened" in Minnesota, Vaccaro said. "It was kind of a thing where we were wrong on all levels of the defense. The secondary was missing plays, linebacker, (defensive) line. So it's kind of a thing where, was it a fluke, or are we delusional?

"All the guys are confident. We've shown that through camp. I haven't been this optimistic about a defense in a long time," Vaccaro continued. "I think we'll bounce back."

Certainly, Saints defenders could improve morale by viewing their latest performance as one bad game in a season largely unrelated to those that came before, considering the new faces in the lineup. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady sounded inclined to agree.

"I know they didn't get off to the start they wanted to in Minnesota, which means they're going to be really ready to go against us," Brady said. "They've got a lot of different looks. They've got some really talented players — some young, up-and-coming players."

Brady said he sees the Saints defense as "a whole new group of guys who are playing together for the first time, and I'm sure they'll get a lot better over the course of the season."

One of New Orleans' more prominent new defensive players is linebacker A.J. Klein, signed away from Carolina in free agency. He receives the defensive calls from Allen and relays them to teammates.

"We have a long season ahead of us and I think there are a little bit of growing pains that go along with Week 1," Klein said. "We have to be better in communicating in our third-down situations. We had some completions for first downs that were just communication errors — things that can be fixed between us and the rest of the back seven. But it was obviously a lackluster performance and I think a lot of it was self-inflicted."

The rookies in the starting lineup were cornerback Marshon Lattimore, safety Marcus Williams and linebacker Alex Anzelone, who were all drafted in the first three rounds last spring. Another starter, cornerback P.J. Williams, was a 2015 third-rounder who, because of injuries the past two years, was playing in only his third NFL game.

He mostly witnessed from the sideline problems New Orleans had defensively the previous two seasons, and asserts that the unit is much different now.

"This is definitely not going to be a last two-, three-years type of defense," P.J. Williams said. "We're going to be a good defense and I definitely think you're all going to see it within these next few weeks."

Great article find Coogs !! I don't know specifically how we gut and overhaul our defense per se but you are correct that we need some type of at least a semi-gutting/overhaul for sure and the Saints did a pretty quick thorough job in just 2 years if not lesser time frame for sure. Because it sure seemed just like yesterday that if I had any fantasy players going against the Saints defense it was an automatic start for sure.:thumb:

[DaneMcCloud]

Great article find Coogs !! I don't know specifically how we gut and overhaul our defense per se but you are correct that we need some type of at least a semi-gutting/overhaul for sure and the Saints did a pretty quick thorough job in just 2 years if not lesser time frame for sure. Because it sure seemed just like yesterday that if I had any fantasy players going against the Saints defense it was an automatic start for sure.:thumb:

http://tsoilcity.blob.core.windows.net/county10/2014/11/shutterstock_1392549681.jpg

[Chiefshrink]

Which also makes "Coogs" a butt****ing moron, which we already knew

Put a sock in it George Keitzman !!!!ROFLROFL :rolleyes:

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Coogs defended his position very substantively and again as always when you got NO substantive reply you name call.:rolleyes: Just admit he has a very good point and solid case to build on for sure. Humility is the cornerstone of real peace and happiness in life, but I guess since you are Barney Fife, Ted Baxter, George Constanza and locally Kevin Keitzman all rolled into one :shrug:, it makes it very difficult for you to be humble for sure :hmmm:;).

[pugsnotdrugs19]

WILB fine

Who is it then?

[DaneMcCloud]

Put a sock in it George Keitzman !!!!ROFLROFL :rolleyes:

Fuck off, you phony



Coogs defended his position very substantively and again as always when you got NO substantive reply you name call.:rolleyes: Just admit he has a very good point and solid case to build on for sure. Humility is the cornerstone of real peace and happiness in life, but I guess since you are Barney Fife, Ted Baxter, George Constanza and locally Kevin Keitzman all rolled into one :shrug:, it makes it very difficult for you to be humble for sure :hmmm:;).

You're so fucking stupid.

He "defended" his stance with an article written by someone else and Tim Grunhard's opinion?

Do you have fucking clue about how fucking stupid that sounds?

http://rptimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Quack-Ups.jpg

[DaneMcCloud]

Put a sock in it George Keitzman

Why don't you cry about negative rep some more, you fucking little twat?

https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/60988/screenshots/558921/quack.png

[O.city]

When you look at what the saints did on d, mostly it was built on rookies. The Vikings have been building for a while.

The problem with the chiefs d is the good players got old and they didn’t draft well enough to replace.

They can hit on some picks this year and add a few low key good free agent guys and be back to not being awful.

But it’s all about the draft

[O.city]

Also looking at the saints, while the d did improve, they also had an unbelievably good running game. That helped hide the defense a lot.

[DaneMcCloud]

Also looking at the saints, while the d did improve, they also had an unbelievably good running game. That helped hide the defense a lot.

The Saints defense has taken years to rebuild after the Bounty Gate debacle of 2010.

They’ve gone through multiple Defensive Coordinators and spent tons of draft capital but when it was all said and done, they didn’t make it out of the Divisonal Round.

I don’t understand why anyone with a fucking brain would use them to highlight an argument.

Oh, wait...

[O.city]

The Saints defense has taken years to rebuild after the Bounty Gate debacle of 2010.

They’ve gone through multiple Defensive Coordinators and draft picks but when it was all said and done, they didn’t make it out of the Divisonal Round.

I don’t understand why anyone with a ****ing brain would use them to highlight an argument.

Oh, wait...

Yeah the bounty gate thing hurt them quite a bit.

Just stating that the whole doom and gloom and 3 years to rebuild is pretty crazy. A good solid draft would go a long way.

[Chiefshrink]

He "defended" his stance with an article written by someone else and Tim Grunhard's opinion?

Exactly !! And why I complimented him on finding the article written and case in point to defend his point unlike you. :shrug::spock: Again you need a refresher course in reading comprehension.

Do you have ****ing clue about how ****ing stupid that sounds?

No, it seems you need to get a clue and take a page out of Coogs's book and find articles written to at least defend your point and why Coog's said do your own homework. Do you know how foolish and stupid you sound when you "name call" with no substantive reply ?:shrug:

Come on Ted quit posing and being an attention whore for once, huh?

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[TambaBerry]

Can we ban these idiots for derailing this thread?

[Chiefshrink]

Why don't you cry about negative rep some more, you ****ing little twat?


ROFLROFL Dude, did I ever tell you to stop ? Nope. I was just attempting to point out how extremely immature and extremely insecure you were being and definitely still are for sure when someone challenges your points of view !!!:thumb::rolleyes:

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[jspchief]

The two biggest additions to the Saints D came earlier in the draft than the Chiefs will pick in 2018, including the best CB in the draft miraculously dropping to #11.

The Vikings have thrown a truckload of picks at their defense in the last 6 years including 5 first round picks. They also didn't waste picks on projects like Kpass.

The Chiefs aren't likely to fix the D in this year's draft. There isn't even any real reason to believe the current FO is capable of identifying defensive talent outside of the 1st round.

The only issue with Houston is how he's being used. It doesn't make sense to ship him out simply because the regime refused to fire the DC that can't get the most out of him.

[Chiefshrink]

The two biggest additions to the Saints D came earlier in the draft than the Chiefs will pick in 2018, including the best CB in the draft miraculously dropping to #11.

The Vikings have thrown a truckload of picks at their defense in the last 6 years including 5 first round picks. They also didn't waste picks on projects like Kpass.

The Chiefs aren't likely to fix the D in this year's draft. There isn't even any real reason to believe the current FO is capable of identifying defensive talent outside of the 1st round.

The only issue with Houston is how he's being used. It doesn't make sense to ship him out simply because the regime refused to fire the DC that can't get the most out of him.

Like I said, I don't know how we go about it but we do need to gut our defense for sure. Downside and to your point we don't have a plethora of picks in this draft to do so even IF we get a couple for Alex.:shrug:

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFLROFL Dude, did I ever tell you to stop ? Nope. I was just attempting to point out how extremely immature and extremely insecure you were being and definitely still are for sure when someone challenges your points of view

Shut the fuck up. You bitched and whined until one of the Mod's chimed in, Buttfuck

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[Chiefshrink]

Shut the **** up. You bitched and whined until one of the Mod's chimed in, Butt****



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Sure thing Barney.;)

[Chief Roundup]

No. Fuck no on Jones. He's not consistent enough.

And can we pump the brakes on Ragland? He's a nice player, but he plays ILB. Grunhard actually said he plays a more important position? Christ, you might have a case if he played as well as DJ in his prime, but he's not even close to being that good yet, and I don't think he has the speed to cover ground fast enough like DJ did. Again, he's a solid starter. He's doing his job. That's not being a top player on this defense or being asked to do the 1000 fucking things that Justin Houston is being asked to do by Sutton.

Two months ago I thought everybody fucking hated Peters' guts, including the KC media? What happened, now he's back to being important when we realize what AIDS we have at the CB position besides him? People are starting to realize that a CB who doesn't consistently tackle or put up the effort to tackle isn't that big of a fucking deal if you can cover like he can?

Grunhard's a moron to even suggest it. I don't even fucking care about context or how he was trying to massage the statement or suggest it. He's a buttfucking moron.

Yeah he said stopping up the middle was very important like it is in other sports.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sure thing Barney.;)

So, the only way you can respond is with a fucking Gif?

You're a bigger phony than I imagined.

http://diysolarpanelsv.com/images/clipart-quack-35.jpg

[Easy 6]

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Sure thing Barney.;)

So, the only way you can respond is with a ****ing Gif?

You're a bigger phony than I imagined.

http://diysolarpanelsv.com/images/clipart-quack-35.jpg

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[Chiefshrink]

So, the only way you can respond is with a ****ing Gif?


Oh my ! You are kidding me right?:eek: You are the classic textbook definition of Freud's defense mechanism called "Projection". How many "duck gifs" have you thrown at me in the last few months ??:rolleyes:

Hey George if you can't handle the heat then.......:D

[Chiefshrink]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WpYeekQkAdc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ROFL:clap:ROFL

[Easy 6]

ROFL:clap:ROFL

THAT GOES FOR BOTH OF YOU RASCALS :)

[Chiefshrink]

THAT GOES FOR BOTH OF YOU RASCALS :)

Hey now, I will own my part for partially derailing this thread but never will I use vulgar curse words to demean someone's opinion whether their position is an educated or uneducated take.:thumb:

If yanking someone's chain in good clean fun is "sin" then I confess my sin.;)

[Baby Lee]

What I hear in my head when my eyes glaze over seeing Dane's posts lately. Replace 'black' with 'fuck'

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[ThaVirus]

It's been done before. Even this season.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/nfl/saints/2017/09/14/new-orleans-saints-defense-looks-redemption-after-week-1-flop/667470001/

Saints safety Kenny Vaccaro appreciates why an outside observer might view the latest flop by New Orleans' defense as an extension of a three-year trend — even if he doesn't quite see it that way.

"Every year, it seems like this happens, so what are they supposed to say?" Vaccaro said before practice Wednesday. "The only way we can change that is if we put different results on the field. And I believe we'll do it. It was just Week 1. I'm not down. There are a lot of good teams that are 0-1 right now across the league."

Whatever the case, there's a lot to fix before facing Tom Brady and the Patriots this Sunday in the Superdome.

New Orleans' defensive ranking has been no better than 27th — and as low as 31st — during the past three seasons. The Saints also ranked last in the NFL in pass defense in 2016.


So there was a lot about Minnesota's 29-19 victory over New Orleans Monday night that looked familiar. New Orleans gave up 470 yards, including a slew of big plays. Vikings quarterback Sam Bradford completed all but five of his 32 passes for 346 yards and three touchdowns without a turnover in one of the best performances of his career.

Yet this season's Saints defense has seven new starters, including three rookies, and a defensive coordinator in Dennis Allen who is in only his second full season on the job. Furthermore, New Orleans' current defense allowed only five touchdowns during four preseason games — and only two through the air. During one stretch in the preseason, the Saints' defense held opponents without a touchdown for eight straight quarters.

"We've gotten better as a defense. We showed that in the preseason. I don't know what happened" in Minnesota, Vaccaro said. "It was kind of a thing where we were wrong on all levels of the defense. The secondary was missing plays, linebacker, (defensive) line. So it's kind of a thing where, was it a fluke, or are we delusional?

"All the guys are confident. We've shown that through camp. I haven't been this optimistic about a defense in a long time," Vaccaro continued. "I think we'll bounce back."

Certainly, Saints defenders could improve morale by viewing their latest performance as one bad game in a season largely unrelated to those that came before, considering the new faces in the lineup. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady sounded inclined to agree.

"I know they didn't get off to the start they wanted to in Minnesota, which means they're going to be really ready to go against us," Brady said. "They've got a lot of different looks. They've got some really talented players — some young, up-and-coming players."

Brady said he sees the Saints defense as "a whole new group of guys who are playing together for the first time, and I'm sure they'll get a lot better over the course of the season."

One of New Orleans' more prominent new defensive players is linebacker A.J. Klein, signed away from Carolina in free agency. He receives the defensive calls from Allen and relays them to teammates.

"We have a long season ahead of us and I think there are a little bit of growing pains that go along with Week 1," Klein said. "We have to be better in communicating in our third-down situations. We had some completions for first downs that were just communication errors — things that can be fixed between us and the rest of the back seven. But it was obviously a lackluster performance and I think a lot of it was self-inflicted."

The rookies in the starting lineup were cornerback Marshon Lattimore, safety Marcus Williams and linebacker Alex Anzelone, who were all drafted in the first three rounds last spring. Another starter, cornerback P.J. Williams, was a 2015 third-rounder who, because of injuries the past two years, was playing in only his third NFL game.

He mostly witnessed from the sideline problems New Orleans had defensively the previous two seasons, and asserts that the unit is much different now.

"This is definitely not going to be a last two-, three-years type of defense," P.J. Williams said. "We're going to be a good defense and I definitely think you're all going to see it within these next few weeks."

Right, except 1) it's an exceedingly rare situation to be able to field 7 new starters on either side of the ball and see marked improvement the year after and 2) the situations would be absolutely nothing alike. Suggesting we cut Houston, who is no worse than our third best defender, would be akin to the Saints cutting Cam Jordan and still seeing improvement. Do you think they could have cut Cam Jordan last offseason and gotten better on defense?

[JakeF]

Sutton will never have enough talent.

[Ming the Merciless]

Sutton will never have enough talent.

i disagree

I think people are too quick to view the offense and the defense as being completely separate...when in reality they both rely on one another during the game.

When the offense literally doesnt get any first downs in 30 minutes...that can affect the D

I for one, am willing to say that i am looking forward to seeing what happens when we have an offense that takes risks amd throws past the sticks on 3rd down , even when ahead etc

[ping2000]

i disagree

I think people are too quick to view the offense and the defense as being completely separate...when in reality they both rely on one another during the game.

When the offense literally doesnt get any first downs in 30 minutes...that can affect the D

I for one, am willing to say that i am looking forward to seeing what happens when we have an offense that takes risks amd throws past the sticks on 3rd down , even when ahead etcWe will lose 49-48. Sutton's lobotomized body needs to be forcibly removed from Arrowhead.

[Chiefshrink]

Right, except 1) it's an exceedingly rare situation to be able to field 7 new starters on either side of the ball and see marked improvement the year after and 2) the situations would be absolutely nothing alike. Suggesting we cut Houston, who is no worse than our third best defender, would be akin to the Saints cutting Cam Jordan and still seeing improvement. Do you think they could have cut Cam Jordan last offseason and gotten better on defense?

I don’t know that it’s so much of a rare situation as it is us not having enough draft picks that is more the rare situation so that we could gut the defense to some degree. I can’t speak for Coogs but my thinking and feeling might be in alignment with him that Houston will never be the same again. That Denver game last year was an anomaly and we haven’t seen that Houston since. Now in all fairness to the others who state well Houston is easy to neutralize somewhat when there is no other defensive talent on the line on the opposite side is a very fair point. I’m not for or against cutting Houston at this point like I said I don’t know how we gut this defense. But Coogs provided a substantive example of how it can be done.

[ThaVirus]

I don’t know that it’s so much of a rare situation as it is us not having enough draft picks that is more the rare situation so that we could gut the defense to some degree. I can’t speak for Coogs but my thinking and feeling might be in alignment with him that Houston will never be the same again. That Denver game last year was an anomaly and we haven’t seen that Houston since. Now in all fairness to the others who state well Houston is easy to neutralize somewhat when there is no other defensive talent on the line on the opposite side is a very fair point. I’m not for or against cutting Houston at this point like I said I don’t know how we gut this defense. But Coogs provided a substantive example of how it can be done.

It really wasn't a good example, though. He's proposing we cut our one legitimate pass rusher who also happens to be the only consistent stalwart against the run in our entire front 7. The Saints didn't replace Cam Jordan in their defensive shake-up. They kept him because they knew he was a part of the solution, not the problem. Had the Saints cut Jordan then Coogs might have a point..

Houston will never be what he was in 2014, but he's only 29 and his game will age well. He's never been about speed or explosion- he's more about power than anything. He reminds me of James Harrison. He can be productive into his mid-30s if his body holds up. Even at present, he's still a 15 sack per season guy with a couple other pass rushing threats on the team. It's no coincidence that he was uber disruptive when we had Ford and in every game Chris Jones put in work.

[KChiefs1]

https://youtu.be/7sAzaD7tJRg

[Hammock Parties]

Jesus. A bunch of paid homers sitting around wanking about defensive highlights during a 9-7 season in which the defense was near the bottom of the league.

That video is what is wrong with the Chiefs culture.

Keep feeding the fans that bullshit, One Arrowhead.

[AssEaterChief]

Keep feeding the fans that bullshit, One Arrowhead.

But but but Chris Jones had that 3 sack game with an INT and the secondary showed up against the Chargers and picked off 3 Rivers passes….

LOL

[TambaBerry]

the play where chris jones got that interception is perfect reason as to why not bring back dee ford at 8.5 million dollars this season. The guy is just clueless

[RunKC]

Jesus. A bunch of paid homers sitting around wanking about defensive highlights during a 9-7 season in which the defense was near the bottom of the league.

That video is what is wrong with the Chiefs culture.

Keep feeding the fans that bullshit, One Arrowhead.

Every team does this dude. It’s their job

[ThaVirus]

https://youtu.be/7sAzaD7tJRg

We all remember Berry shutting Gronk down but I totally forgot he was in on one of those 4th down stops @ NE as well. He just had a monster fucking game.

Such a shame. He could have gone on to have another legendary season..

[Baby Lee]

Every team does this dude. It’s their job

The Welcher is so fixated on dissing our former starting QB by taking away our win where the coach gave him a rest and tacking on the loss in the playoffs, that he forgot the Chiefs went 10-6.

I have no enthusiasm for the Chiefs D last year, but I remember the W-L record.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Chiefs win 12 games and probably a Superbowl with a healthy Berry and Ford

[Hammock Parties]

The Welcher is so fixated on dissing our former starting QB by taking away our win where the coach gave him a rest and tacking on the loss in the playoffs, that he forgot the Chiefs went 10-6.

I have no enthusiasm for the Chiefs D last year, but I remember the W-L record.

You are such a cunt.

[SuperBowl4]

Frank Reich needs to take Bob Sutton.

[Coogs]

Me, I am trading Smith and letting the all of these guys go (with cap savings)

Smith - 17,000,000
Houston - 7,900,000
DJ - 8,000,000
Tamba - 7,700,000
Ford - 8,700,000
Bailey - 6,000,000
Parker - 5,000,000
Revis - 4,500,000

That's right at 65 million. Minus the 8.5 million we are over the cap, that leaves roughly 56 million to work with.

That's 5 defenders in the front 7 that need replaced, but now is the time. Re-tool this thing with young hungry players that will grow with the team over the next year or two while the offense is growing with Mahomes.

This is coming closer all the time. Down to Bailey, Ford, Tamba, and Houston. I hear more all the time that Houston may be next to go. Tamba is likely gone soon.

Been quite an off-season. Don't think we are finished yet.

If Houston is a post June 1 cut, he saves $15,000,000 this season and costs 5.6 in dead money this year and next year. If we wait until next season, he still cost 7.2 next year.

[MahiMike]

How is Hali not the 1st to go?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Ohh, I just have to bump this!


ROFL

[bobhill]

I read the thread title and started to cringe and get very angry. Let's just hope for a 2019 free the Bob Sutton year.

[TwistedChief]

Ohh, I just have to bump this!


ROFL

Die.

[Gravedigger]

If the problem is talent, then you’ve had six years to correct that problem and the last three have been worse and worse, so I don’t buy the talent portion or else it’s on Andy Reid and our draft team for not knowing defensive talent if it hit them in the ass. Also we’ll see if this claim is true if the Chiefs go out in their first game again with the #1 seed and HFA. I’m fine with kicking Sutton and Reid out of town if he’s too stupid and loyal to know what’s best for this team.

[CoMoChief]

Problem is talent in secondary, Veach not making any serious efforts to replace Peters (see Amerson and Scandrick signings), drafting slow fat fucks like Breeland Speaks instead of a CB, banking on natural slot corners to perform well covering 1's on the outside, poor game planning from Grandpa Bob, injuries to the safety position and having to rely on Murray and Parker and Sorensen. Not having a healthy Eric Berry is a giant kick in the dick.

And the Chiefs middle LB's suck...my god Ragland is slow. No way DJ is slower than that.

[scho63]

I saw this thread on the home page near the top and got pissed thinking it was a NEW THREAD and not bumped. Damn that gave me the chills and nightmares.

He's gotta be gone after this year.

[007]

He will retire at the end of this year.

[Red Dawg]

Win the SB and they can do whatever they want for 3 years and I won't say anything. Lose at home in the first game and Sutton an his whole staf should be fired. Pretty clear it will be a defensive failure if it happens.