Red Zone Problems

[tmax63]

The announcers were talking about it last night how they hadn't scored a TD in the last 7 drives or however many it is now. I realize short yardage has always been a problem this year but it seems like Andy has been trying to get too cute. I Know they have taken out the QB sneak out of the playbook but that doesn't excuse reverse pitch jet sweeps and TE option passes being the go-to plays on 3rd and goal at the 1. Whatever happened to heavy formations with a couple extra OL as tight ends and the Sherminator in at fullback? I don't believe that the talent is so back on the OL that they can't devise a blocking scheme to get 1 yard. I hope this is Andy just fucking around putting things on tape against a lesser opponent for others to think about but I wonder.

[ThaVirus]

Reid gets cute because he knows our limitations. This OL is not great at run blocking in short yardage/goal-to-go situations.

[O.city]

The interior ol sucks

We’re playing with 4 backup level OL right now. It is what it is

[Deberg_1990]

Reid gets cute because he knows our limitations. This OL is not great at run blocking in short yardage/goal-to-go situations.

I got the feeling last night he was ‘experimenting’ for the future.

He knew he could get away with it , because Denver.....

[ChiefBlueCFC]

Interior OLine is an issue, as it was throughout the season last year. Time to get Wylie out of there and get Wiz back in

[FAX]

Very concerning.

We have an o-line and running backs who cannot get 3 yards against a stacked box.

Ergo, Wally has to try and attack the edges.

The question at hand is this: Can Mahomes throw a short fade to the corner? Or not?

FAX

[O.city]

Let Darrel Williams run those short yardage plays

[htismaqe]

Denver was the 5th-ranked defense overall and the 3rd-ranked red zone defense in the NFL going into last night.

After last night, I'm guessing they'll be the #1 red zone defense in the league now.

So they're REALLY good.

Combine that with our IOL problems and it's pretty easy to see what happened last night.

[htismaqe]

Very concerning.

We have an o-line and running backs who cannot get 3 yards against a stacked box.

Ergo, Wally has to try and attack the edges.

The question at hand is this: Can Mahomes throw a short fade to the corner? Or not?

FAX

Fades are not great plays. NFL teams run fades way more than they should, which is probably not at all.

[penguinz]

Denver was the 5th-ranked defense overall and the 3rd-ranked red zone defense in the NFL going into last night.

After last night, I'm guessing they'll be the #1 red zone defense in the league now.

So they're REALLY good.

Combine that with our IOL problems and it's pretty easy to see what happened last night.
Stop using stats and logic on these forums. :)

[FAX]

Fades are not great plays. NFL teams run fades way more than they should, which is probably not at all.

Allow me to do you the honor of disagreeing with your opinion, Mr. htismaqe.

We are trying every play in the book to avoid running between the tackles in the redzone.

We are even trying plays that aren't in any book ... All in an effort to compensate for our inability to run against a goal-line defense.

Short fades can draw DPI penalties. It's a proven fact. (See; Faiders.)

I, for one, would be willing to consider a short fade against a rookie corner than the QB-in-motion-double-reverse-underhand-pass-to-the-Z-receiver which had never scored a touchdown in the history of the world.

FAX THE EVALUATOR

[lcarus]

Fades are not great plays. NFL teams run fades way more than they should, which is probably not at all.

I totally agree. If you're half a yard from scoring, throwing a moonball up to a covered receiver just seems like the 40th best idea. On our drive, once Bell got a foot from scoring on 1st down, we should have either pounded it again or faked the run and passed it. We got too cute.

[Bearcat]

Denver was the 5th-ranked defense overall and the 3rd-ranked red zone defense in the NFL going into last night.

After last night, I'm guessing they'll be the #1 red zone defense in the league now.

So they're REALLY good.

Combine that with our IOL problems and it's pretty easy to see what happened last night.

Yeah, and the fact is that shit happens... sometimes the offense looks magically automatic from anywhere on the field and sometimes it's going to sputter for a game or two.

And that's not to dismiss the issue.... they're obviously trying new things and trying to figure it out, even if they did get too fancy for my taste a time or two.

It's currently a little before 8am MST on December 7th, 2020, and Patrick Fucking Mahomes is still the quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs.

I'm not worried.

[Simply Red]

Let Darrel Williams run those short yardage plays

O.city is right here.

[displacedinMN]

just score from the 40

[BigRedChief]

Let Darrel Williams run those short yardage playsWhat happened to the sausage getting those need 1 yard plays? He seemed to get the job done.

[Hammock Parties]

The Chiefs had two more TDs (besides the deep ones) missed because throws to wide open receivers got batted down at the line of scrimmage. Watkins and Reek were both open and Patrick loaded up two missiles.

I maintain that there are very few problems with the offense, and there certainly isn't a chronic one.

[F150]

I got the feeling last night he was ‘experimenting’ for the future.

He knew he could get away with it , because Denver.....

And damn near didnt

[Chris Meck]

Schematically, we're unlikely to ever be a team that can just power up in short yardage. The rest of the scheme demands mobile linemen and lots of movement in space. Those skills don't usually come along with road grader size and strength.

That being said, C and RG are particularly problematic.

Reiter actually had some nice blocks yesterday in non-short yardage situations, but in general, he almost never gets any actual push whatsoever. Wylie is bad. You ever notice how we can never run inside the T on the right side? Like ever?

Remmers is...fair. He's been better than I thought he'd be if we had to rely on him for a long stretch, but he's still pretty mediocre.

Fisher and Alegretti are the only ones on that line that win more snaps than they lose.

I had concerns about Bell's running style behind this line. He's still Bell, but this isn't a good enough line to open holes for that wait-and-pick thing he does.

It's time for Wizniewski if he's ready.

And I would argue that Kilgore allows your offense more versatility as you can actually get some push up front when you want to run the ball.

[DJJasonp]

we have relatively short receivers - so the fade isnt a great option for us.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

We don’t have the space to operate within the red zone the way we do the rest of the field, so that limits some of our spacing and things Andy likes to do.

That being said, I believe we were top 5 in red zone scoring opportunities the past 2 seasons (or maybe it was 2017 & 2018), so it’s not like this offense hasn’t had sustained success in those situations before. Andy needs to quit being cute and let Mahomes make plays and/or get the ball in the hands of his playmakers.

ALWAYS Trust in Mahomes.

He may make a mistake once in a while, but 9 out of 10 times he’s gonna make the right decision. I trust him, Andy should too.

[tmax63]

I don't think it's that hard. Maybe they can't get 1 yard straight ahead on a lot of teams but scheming to get blocking angles for the OL isn't that hard and getting the ball to the edge can be done without running a reverse option or a tight end "wildcat" or some of the crap they've tried the last couple of weeks.

[Dunerdr]

We arent built to be a north and south short yardage team, Andy calls plays for what we do well. But as mentioned id be surprised if part of it wasnt tipping his hat for future calls and set ups a little bit.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Very concerning.

We have an o-line and running backs who cannot get 3 yards against a stacked box.

Ergo, Wally has to try and attack the edges.

The question at hand is this: Can Mahomes throw a short fade to the corner? Or not?

FAXI hate running any play to the short side at the goal line, especially trick plays, because it gives a player like Tyreek less space to make moves, plus because it's the short side of the field, it gets crowded quickly.

If Reid doesn't have confidence in just running the ball for a single yard, why not spread the defense out with 5 wide? Even with very little space in the end zone for 5 routes, the defense still has to take players away from the middle to guard the wide outs, which could make it easier for the RB to score, or it puts the ball in the hands of the best player in football.

Field goals won't cut it against any playoff team in the AFC.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[RealSNR]

Reid gets cute because he knows our limitations. This OL is not great at run blocking in short yardage/goal-to-go situations.


Do we actually know they suck, though?

It’s been several weeks since we actually asked them to line up and plow forward in short yardage running situations

[Deberg_1990]

And damn near didnt

Eh. Never did I feel like we wouldn’t win that game last night.

[RealSNR]

Eh. Never did I feel like we wouldn’t win that game last night.


Agreed.

A close game doesn’t always mean the other team “damn near” beat us.

Like, even when they were ahead, was Denver ever above a 50% chance to win at any point during the game?

[emaw1979]

The Chiefs had two more TDs (besides the deep ones) missed because throws to wide open receivers got batted down at the line of scrimmage. Watkins and Reek were both open and Patrick loaded up two missiles.

I maintain that there are very few problems with the offense, and there certainly isn't a chronic one.

This was my thought to. I know Hill had his man beat by 2-3 steps for an easy TD on one of those batted passes. I didn't see a clear view of Watkins but I assume he was open. Just a fluky game. KC left so many uncharacteristic points on the field.

2 batted balls that should have been TDs in the redzone. I don't recall the last pass Mahomes has thrown that was batted at the line until last night. Harris had a great game in that regard.
1 unbelievable throw and catch that should have been reviewed on a deep pass.

[KChiefs1]

I never had a doubt the Chiefs would win last night but this is a problem that needs to be worked on.

I expect Andy will be working OT on this problem & it will get fixed before the playoffs.

[mililo4cpa]

While it's not great to have 7 consecutive red zone trips without a TD, scoring has not been this team's problem. I think that, when time comes (not a regular season game against the Broncos), our Red Zone Issues will be resolved....

I don't think they are holding back per se, because they are certainly trying to punch it in. But I do think they have certain plays set aside for the "absolutely need it" situation, like a 2 point conversion to tie the game late, or other plays that just historically have gotten in the end zone (such as running backs crossing in the backfield and opening up the flats, which seems to be a preferred play in a tight situations).....

I guess technically that is "holding back" to a degree, but I think it's more about not showing certain things for more important times than playing a regular season home game against a shitty opponent, because the likelihood that you're going to beat that team without pulling out all the stops is probably pretty great. My guess is, had the game came down to the wire and the Chiefs needed to punch it in late to win, then they would have....but they really didn't need it last night given the timing of the situations, although it did make us pucker up a little bit at the end....

When they absolutely need to get it in the end zone, they will....

[carcosa]

We'll be fine

[O.city]

Do we actually know they suck, though?

It’s been several weeks since we actually asked them to line up and plow forward in short yardage running situations

That in itself kinda tells me all I need to know

[jerryaldini]

Pound it up there twice and if don't make it make them go 99. Offenses get conservative from their own goal so good odds of regaining field position. Agree Williams our best option, miss DWill there.

[493rd]

Denver was the 5th-ranked defense overall and the 3rd-ranked red zone defense in the NFL going into last night.

After last night, I'm guessing they'll be the #1 red zone defense in the league now.

So they're REALLY good.

Combine that with our IOL problems and it's pretty easy to see what happened last night.

Sounds right.

[007]

Denver was the 5th-ranked defense overall and the 3rd-ranked red zone defense in the NFL going into last night.

After last night, I'm guessing they'll be the #1 red zone defense in the league now.

So they're REALLY good.

Combine that with our IOL problems and it's pretty easy to see what happened last night.


I kept telling my friend that last night. Denver has their problems. Defense is not one of them.

[Gravedigger]

He gets too cute, that is likely due to Mahomes pushing for that play we gave a cool name to and practiced that will surely work better than the Kelce run pass option of last week. Just stop with the cutesy plays, some of them are shift the rose bowl right parade, most of the them are shitty gimmicks. I know your offensive line is built for finesse and not power, but if you can't shove the DLine back three yards into the end zone, then you need to draft OL in bunches this coming offseason. Plus you intentionally sat Clyde last night even though he was active so use him instead of just forcing him to suit up and look pretty the whole night. Either way, you need to draft 2 OL this upcoming draft to replace Fisher and Schwartz.

[petegz28]

1st and goal from the 4 and your MVP QB never gets a chance to throw it on 3 downs....

You can say whatever you want about the OL but that is just fucking inexcusable.

[scho63]

Bring back the Poe!

[ThaVirus]

Do we actually know they suck, though?

It’s been several weeks since we actually asked them to line up and plow forward in short yardage running situations


Well they didn’t look very good last night, that’s for sure. I’ll trust that Reid has a good idea of their capabilities and calls his plays accordingly.

There have been tons of sweeps/misdirection plays we’ve scored on by going sideways in the red zone this season. When it works, Reid’s a genius. When it doesn’t, he’s getting too cute. Shit never fails.

[Gary Cooper]

If you can't run the ball, you're going to struggle in the red zone. Teams can be more physical with Kelce and double him. Tyreek's speed loses importance with less space behind the defense. We don't have a tall receiver we use for lob passes. The only time we score in the red zone is when Mahomes scrambles or rolls out of the pocket and makes plays happen.

It may sound boring and traditional, but just run behind the fullback and win the one-on-one battles. X's and O's aren't everything. If you can't do that, then you're stuck with these triple reverses from the 1 yard line that occasionally result in a big loss.

[chiefzilla1501]

He gets too cute, that is likely due to Mahomes pushing for that play we gave a cool name to and practiced that will surely work better than the Kelce run pass option of last week. Just stop with the cutesy plays, some of them are shift the rose bowl right parade, most of the them are shitty gimmicks. I know your offensive line is built for finesse and not power, but if you can't shove the DLine back three yards into the end zone, then you need to draft OL in bunches this coming offseason. Plus you intentionally sat Clyde last night even though he was active so use him instead of just forcing him to suit up and look pretty the whole night. Either way, you need to draft 2 OL this upcoming draft to replace Fisher and Schwartz.

Reid looked downright afraid to run on short yardage last week against tampa. They have one hell of a DL. But still. This looks like Reid not having confidence at all in our OL and he's probably not wrong on that.

[chiefzilla1501]

I hate when people say we're saving things for the playoffs. But I actually think it may be true here. Reid knows we need some gadgetry to overcome some of our red zone personnel limitations. We've been doing that mostly by running different looks of Ferrari and stampede packages. I bet we see a lot of crazy shit in the playoffs and I'm here for it.

Also, we're going to really miss Damien williams. Love our RBs but Williams absolutely slayed on short yardage in a lot of big moments.

[Tribal Warfare]

The OL is shitting there pants in the run game thus it's stalling the offense in the redzone

[Red Dawg]

Go Wash.

[Priest31kc]

Yeah we're struggling this year. 24th in TD%. Only 8 awful teams are worse.

We were amazing in 2018 (2nd) & above average in 2019 (11th).

But I remember struggling some last year and then turning it on in the RZ late in the season and then especially in the playoffs.

So let's hope the same thing happens this year.

[Simply Red]

The Chiefs had two more TDs (besides the deep ones) missed because throws to wide open receivers got batted down at the line of scrimmage. Watkins and Reek were both open and Patrick loaded up two missiles.

I maintain that there are very few problems with the offense, and there certainly isn't a chronic one.

okay Judge Judy

[ljmhawk]

the problem is when we run a short yardage play it’s always from the shotgun so the first move the RB makes is east/west instead of north/south. also out of shotgun allows the edge rushers to just crash

[Jewish Rabbi]

We'll be fine

Yip

[Bearcat]

Yeah we're struggling this year. 24th in TD%. Only 8 awful teams are worse.

We were amazing in 2018 (2nd) & above average in 2019 (11th).

But I remember struggling some last year and then turning it on in the RZ late in the season and then especially in the playoffs.

So let's hope the same thing happens this year.

The difference between this year and last year is 2.5%.

Currently 27/47 - 57.4%

One more red zone TD this season and they'd be at 59.5% and they were 60% last season.

The 0 for 7 hurt by ~8% alone... score 3/7 of those and they're 12th in the league at 63.8% and no one is talking about it.

[Hammock Parties]

As always, Chiefs fans have recency bias.

This is probably the best year for Andy in KC in short yardage and goal line situations.

Because the cute stuff is working more often than not.

[Red Dawg]

I just don't understand why we don't use Sherman to block and slam the ball in for a yard or roll Mahomes out and have him find a receiver. Nobody better at that than he is. We don't need tripple reverse or Kelce throwing it to get two yards.

[WhiteWhale]

Fades are not great plays. NFL teams run fades way more than they should, which is probably not at all.

It's not possible for me to agree more with a statement.

MAYBE if you have a jump ball ninja like hopkins or megatron, but I hate goal line fades.

I'll tell you this... I never want another goal line 3 and a FG in which we dont give mahomes at least 1 chance.

[htismaqe]

The difference between this year and last year is 2.5%.

Currently 27/47 - 57.4%

One more red zone TD this season and they'd be at 59.5% and they were 60% last season.

The 0 for 7 hurt by ~8% alone... score 3/7 of those and they're 12th in the league at 63.8% and no one is talking about it.

Excellent analysis.

[eDave]

As always, Chiefs fans have recency bias.

This is probably the best year for Andy in KC in short yardage and goal line situations.

Because the cute stuff is working more often than not.

That's just how great we are. Gotta find SOMETHING to improve.

[Hammock Parties]

I just don't understand why we don't use Sherman to block and slam the ball in for a yard or roll Mahomes out and have him find a receiver. Nobody better at that than he is. We don't need tripple reverse or Kelce throwing it to get two yards.

I don't understand why you aren't OC for the Chiefs.

[Simply Red]

Excellent analysis.

Thx!

[Simply Red]

I don't understand why you aren't OC for the Chiefs.

Because he's Tuck Daddy and only .05% above the Jake's and UChiefybugger's.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Because he's Tuck Daddy and only .05% above the Jake's and UChiefybugger's.

Yip

[Priest31kc]

The difference between this year and last year is 2.5%.

Currently 27/47 - 57.4%

One more red zone TD this season and they'd be at 59.5% and they were 60% last season.

The 0 for 7 hurt by ~8% alone... score 3/7 of those and they're 12th in the league at 63.8% and no one is talking about it.

Very true. And like I said I think we were struggling last year and then improved our percentage towards the end of the year. Bet we do that again and end up near the top 10 again.

However I'd love to be at the 73% we were at in 2018. And with Mahomes I feel like we should always be at the top in damn near everything every year.