Warning: Political Topic...Gore shoves foot in mouth, again.

[Mosbonian]

The hits, they just keep on coming. This time in Florida perfecting his Medi-scare campaign.

Click here for story (http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000919232831.htm)

The man is damn near a walking contradiction.

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

How can anyone believe this man?

Luz
who are these people that think he really cares about solving their problems?...

[flowergirl]

Gee, I'm SHOCKED that you 2 think he's dishonest! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

[Mosbonian]

Clint: I thought you would appreciate this. No 'think' or opinion in this entire post.

He lied, his campaign admitted it. Facts, just like you like it. Well, not exactly like you like it because it goes against your beliefs, but facts nonetheless.

[G_Man]

Luz - The same people that believe that Clinton actually wanted Welfare reform, Republicans were starving children and the elderly, and those who actually believe the tie breaking vote that raised our taxes that Gore cast turned around the economy. Heck maybe those who believe that a Marriage Penalty tax is a good thing, how Clinton veto'd that I have no clue.

[ansonsdad]

I for one will just be glad when this damn thing is over. I think if I see one more political ad on TV, I am going to yack! IMHO, the choice between Gore and Bush is about like being asked the question......

"You are going to get you're butt kicked, Do you want it slow or fast?"

You would think with all the people in this great country, they could come up with a couple of guy's other than the two in this race. errrrrrr ;(

[Mosbonian]

Morph: eliminating that 'penalty', according to guess who, the Dems, is actually a marriage bonus because it helps married people more than single people cause married people typically have two incomes instead of one. - if that makes sense to you, you're well on your way to becoming a good lib.

[ChiefsAlltheWay]

At least we can thank Gore for letting us use this board to discuss politics. After all, he invented the internet. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[G_Man]

Mizzou - Well of course he invented the Internet, I mean it was originally made out of the tobacco his family was growing on their farm. You know, the same people he now vow to wipe off that map.

[This message has been edited by morphius (edited 09-19-2000).]

[ansonsdad]

Mizzou5........now that was good! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif LOL

[ansonsdad]

Mizzou5........now that was good! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif LOL

[ansonsdad]

Mizzou5........now that was good! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif LOL

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

I would love to find just one Gore supporter that could tell me what specific policy he advocates that is important to them, and to actually show some awareness of the repercussions of said policy and give me ANY kind of coherant justification for accepting the repercussions.

In other words, something more than the Republicans are evil.

Luz
the libs on the left are attracting a lot of sheep...

[flowergirl]

We all get the point: You don't like Gore. Just wait until November, cast your vote for Bush, and PLEASE stop trying to sell him to everyone on this BB.

[G_Man]

Titus - Then they need to come up with a roomate tax, for those who live together and split the bills. Shoot, right now I'm just happy that next year I can get the child tax credit for having a kid.

[Mosbonian]

Let's not forget, Gore's railing of the greedy oil companies, except for OCC Petroleum, of course.

[ansonsdad]

Damn! Sorry about that. I hit back and it keeps reposting!! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

And he's really coming down hard on the rich and famous in Hollywood!

Luz
gore... for the common man...

[G_Man]

Clint - So far nobody has said one thing good or bad about Bush in this thread.

[ChiefsAlltheWay]

Bwana,
You must have really liked that one. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif<P>

[Mosbonian]

Uh, Clint...no one here mentioned Bush, or Nader, or Buchanan. There's more than 2 candidates.

I just find this really funny.

It's one of those things that had a Republican done, would have received front page news and about 2 weeks of play on the major TV networks.

[Mosbonian]

Did you all hear about Alec Baldwin? He vowed to leave the US if Gore didnt win the presidency.

Now THAT's a rational, thinking person, eh?

[ansonsdad]

Mizzou5: I still haven't figured out if it's my Dell from hell or the board? It may be time to do some reloading of software for the kid from Montana? LOL

[G_Man]

Titus - It would be headline news on CNN, no doubt about it. Instead we will hear how Bush attacks Gore and not Gore lies to elderly. It should be worth a chuckle if I hear them say that.

[ChiefsAlltheWay]

I have something bad to say about Bush. I never liked the Texas Rangers.

[flowergirl]

We all know you guys are voting for Bush. If you were voting for Buchanan, Harry Browne, etc. you would post negative topics about Gore AND Bush.

Gore is going to win, anyway.

[G_Man]

Titus - It is not like there are not enough Baldwin brothers to go around, we can very easily share with other countries and still not lose much in the way of our acting "talent" in the US.

[Mosbonian]

Luz: I think it goes something like this:

-save the environment from the Republicans
-save the children from being starved by the Republicans
-save the elderly from having to chose between food or drugs thanks to the Republicans
-save the whales from the Republicans
-eliminate the rich aka Republicans
-save the federally subsidized aka Democratic constituents from the Republicans
-save the spotted owl from the Republicans
-eliminate all the SUV's (Republicans transportation)

[ChiefsAlltheWay]

Gregg,

If Baldwin leaves the U.S., do you think that he would mind if somebody moved in with his wife?

[Mosbonian]

Ok, Clint. Then why do you care enough to post on this topic?

[G_Man]

Bwana - When you use the back button you have to quickly go back a couple of pages, otherwise it will repost your line again. I have had this happen once, and it was only when I paused on the your post is being made page. Hope that helps.

[Mosbonian]

Kim was the one who confirmed the story to the AP. When asked if she would go to, she said she probably would. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

When asked if Alec was serious, she said that he was a 'man of his word'.

[ansonsdad]

Morph: Thanks for the tip. I was about ready to gut this thing, or use it as target pratice.

[flowergirl]

All that proves is that Baldwin & Co. are idiots. It doesn't reflect the opinion of ANY OTHER liberals. He's an embarrassment to this country...and NONE of the Baldwins are worth the film their images are recorded onto!

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

I can assure you that neither one of them have any intention of leaving the USA.

Luz
this is more of the liberal 'facts and honesty aren't as important as people feel about me' bunk...

[G_Man]

Bwana - No problem, I hate having to do that. I already have one machine I get to fight every step of the way.

Titus - Yeah, he will probably make that tough move to the english speaking part of Canada.

[Mosbonian]

No, he's not. But he's learning that words mean things.

Alec is blaming Drudge for it when it was the AP that reported the story along with Wash Times and LA Times.

Another Hollywood leftist talking out of his arse--not an endangered species.

[flowergirl]

It's just one dumb actor with an enormous ego shooting off his mouth. It's not even a political issue.

[Mosbonian]

It's not? 'I am going to renounce my US citizenship' if the guy that I want to win the presidency doesnt?

Sounds political to me...also sounds like my 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, but hey I guess you can have the maturity level of a 5 yr old and be a good lib.

[flowergirl]

Bush sounded very mature when he called someone an a__hole while the mic was still on.

Sorry, if you're trying to use this as ammo against liberals in general, you're reaching.

Bush is still going to lose. Prepare yourselves.

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

Clint,

I've seen you call people names like that all the time.

What gives?

Luz
are we talking double standards?...

[G_Man]

Luz - It is obvious that Clint believes it is OK for your politician to lie to you, just as long as they don't cuss about you. (grin).

[Mosbonian]

Clint: I wouldnt be suprised if Gore wins, I mean Dems should steamroll every year with their allies in the media. It's amazing that the Republicans even put up such a good fight considering the lopsided reporting and spin that goes on, but I digress. People, in general, are spoonfed and will believe what they hear from the media. Gore good, Bush bad...is the common refrain.

As far as Bush calling Klayman an ******* , well, the guy is. Another media elite who believes that the rules dont apply to him, very similiar to Mr. Baldwin--hmm, same attitude, same political persuasion. Coincidence? I think not.

[kcmax]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Did you all hear about Alec Baldwin? He vowed to leave the US if Gore didnt win the presidency. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume that is a plug for us to vote FOR BUSH?

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

morphius,

Have you ever read the book, "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars"?

IMO, it clearly explains the gender gap in the polls. Women are more comfortable discussing problems; Men prefer to be problem solvers.

Combine that with the Class Envy that the Libs have been successfully nurturing in this country (right Clint?), and you have an explanation for mindless election results for six of the last seven National Elections.

Luz
still waiting for anyone to give me a rational defense of gore...<BR>

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

JC,

I'm trying to figure out if we can somehow contractually hold him to it?

Luz
his wife can stay...

[Mosbonian]

LOL @ JC-Johnny. Hadnt really considered it that way. I was marvelling at the stupidity of the comment.

I was hoping that he would have said where in the world he planned on going? I figure based up on his politics, France-pure socialist, Italy-socialist/marxist, or China-communist would fit his political style.

[Mosbonian]

Luz: you mean my defense of Gore didnt convince you of the necessity that Gore win?

[flowergirl]

Let me get this straight: If Bush wins. it's because the people of this country were able to look past the evil media and make an intelligent decision.

If Gore wins, it's because females don't know how to/won't solve problems, and the rest of America is either ignorant or brainwashed by the media?


How insulting & egotistical can you get? has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are simply WRONG when the majority of the country disagrees with you over and over again?

BTW, assuming the media is biased towards the Democratic party, why blame the Dems for being smart enough to make the right allies? Republicans picked oil companies, Democrats picked the media. Once again, the Conservatives were outsmarted.

[b-squared]

What makes me laugh is that Gore has spent the past couple of days talking trash in Hollywood about TV/Movie violence. And then all the movie stars turn around and support him. Interesting!!

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TWB
He cannot ravish, he can only woo

[Mosbonian]

Clint: Well almost. If Bush wins it will be despite the media, most certainly.

If Gore wins, it will be with the aid of the media and the economy. Most people vote their wallets rather than philosphy.

As far as the 'majority' of the country disagreeing with the my philosophy, that's where become mistaken. On most issues, the majority is with the more conservative platform.

40% of the country will vote democrat even if the democrat were dead in a two man race.

40% of the country will vote republican for the same reason.

The battle is for the 'middle' 20%.

correct me if Im wrong, but did Clinton ever get 51% of the popular vote in this country? I dont believe so--that would constitute a majority.

[b-squared]

It amazes me how Gore has all these great ideas and plans, but couldn't get any of them accomplished in the last eight years. He already had his chance......next in line please

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TWB
He cannot ravish, he can only woo

[flowergirl]

This is just like the Grbac debates on the old BB. We all have one goal & different ideas on how to get there.

The funny thing is, the goal will not be achieved no matter which route we take because of the idiocy of people other than the QB!

All I want out of my govt. is:

Cut my income taxes in half - I don't mean "give out tax credits"...I mean when I get my paycheck & look at the stub, the amount of federal AND state income tax deducted from my check is reduced by half.

Revamp public education - New, modern schools, increased pay AND increased qualifications for teachers. Eliminate the need for private schools by making public schools competitive, for much less tuition.

Become a little more isolationist - I'm sick and tired of the U.S. military being used as a police force & acting as the "moral enforcers" of the planet. I'm not just talking recently, I'm talking about every useless battle/war from Korea to Bosnia. I certainly don't want to help pay for it. The military should only be used to physically protect the United States and it's citizens...not to fight Communism on the other side of the world or protect someone else's oil. Maybe the military can start charging for their services...$50 million per hour sounds like a good starting point.

That's all I want personally...I know there are many other people with unique needs/wants of their own.

Anyone in agreement with me here?

[b-squared]

Clint

Great ideas. I think a lot of us agree with those points. However, I am unsure how you think the Dems are going to do this. They are the ones who keep dipping into your paycheck.

MORE TAX CUTS
LESS GOVERNMENT
MORE TAX CUTS
LESS PROGRAMS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE TAX PAYERS


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TWB
He cannot ravish, he can only woo

[Mosbonian]

Clint: I can agree with a lot of that which is why it suprises me that you think Gore and the boyz would actually do anything of the sort.

If they cut YOUR taxes in half, they would also have to cut everyone elses, that would mean a tax cut for the rich--to use a good ol' dem mantra.

How do you make schools competitive? You create competition. The NEA is against that-they also happen to be the largest single contributor/lobby to the DNC.

Last as far as world's policemen is concern, we should only involve ourselves when a compelling national interest is concerned. I would think the proliferation of nuclear arms in the mideast would be one area of concern the other would be allowing Chinese nationals access into our goverment.<BR>

[flowergirl]

My 3 desires will NEVER happen, regardless of which party is in control.

Income taxes will never go down for the average American...they will always continue to climb.

There is no short-term payoff in improving public schools...that will never happen.

The military-industrial complex, with legions of politicians on every level in its hip pocket, will never allow too much time to pass between VERY expensive conflicts. "Hot spots" will be fabricated, if necessary.

See why I'm apathetic towards Presidential elections? I already know that the 3 things I want to occur never will, regardless of who wins this year.

The best I can hope for is that the next President doesn't get us into World War 3, which is why I tend to lean towards Gore in this election. If we got into a full-scale global thermonuclear war, imagine all the trees that would die!

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

[b-squared]

You know, almost 50% of our income goes to taxes. Maybe we should all just work 6 monthes out of the year and just live off of the government for the other 6. After all, it is our money that will be paying us.

Then again, it will be hard for me to qualify for government funding since I am a U.S. citizen.

Looks like a no win situation.

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TWB
He cannot ravish, he can only woo

[This message has been edited by 47mack (edited 09-19-2000).]

[Mosbonian]

Clint: what a wonderful view of life, but I understand. Your bias prevents you from being objective. That's ok.<P>

[Dog Day]

I was pretty much with Clint on the Presidential election, but then I realized that George W. can't take a breath without his staff letting him know its okay. If he's this big of idiot, do we really want the guy as Commander and Chief? He makes Reagan look like a Mensa candidate.

[flowergirl]

I don't think I'm asking too much, but greed will prevent any of my 3 desires from ever ocurring.

[Mosbonian]

Im hard pressed to argue such an inane opinion, Drew. It is so void of any rational issue, that I really dont know if it's a joke or just for lack of not being able to cite any better policy for the Dems than: 'Oh, yeah, well you're a dummy'.

[flowergirl]

There's no way that either candidate is unintelligent.

[Mosbonian]

The republicans try to repeal the death/estate tax, democrats (Clinton) stops it.

The republicans try to eliminate the marriage penalty, Clinton stops it.

Correct me if Im wrong, but who is being greedy here?

As far as greed vs. public schools, is it greed to want to elimnate the barriers to competition that would ultimately improve schools. Who is trying to make changes? Who is beholden to the NEA and therefore the status quo?

[kcmax]

Donkey Drew - that is EXACTLY the kind of impression that the media bias engenders. If you are in fact a member of Mr. Bush's staff and have observed firsthand him being spoonfed, etc., I apologize. My guess however, is that a year of Dave, Jay and Conan telling you "Dubya's dumb, tee hee" and those doyen of the donneybrook every Sunday morning and everyday on CNN spinning every tongue tie and spoonerism into defining attributes has slowly seeped in and made the inevitable media transformation from opinion to "truth."

[G_Man]

Clint - One of the two parties is at least for some sort of tax relief to someone other then the very poor and the very old. I feel that the democrats in charge feel that those makeing under 30,000 are middle class and everyone else is just plain too rich. Of course if you want to vote our taxes higher then that is your choice, remember that is the tax plan that Gore keeps bragging about, the one that is labeled as the highest tax rise in history.

[Dog Day]

Titus:

I'm dead serious. The guy has the spark in his eye of a road killed skunk. I saw it at the GOP convention when he couldn't even say he loved his mother with conviction and I've noticed it since. He's about as spontaneous as old faithful, which tells me his staff has the clamps down tight because they're terrified he'll show his idiocy to the world. I don't want a dullard in charge of our Armed Forces. I don't want a guy who needs to be told what he's about making split second decisions on behalf of me. If base intelligence isn't a criteria for the Presidency, I don't know what is.

[G_Man]

Drew - You make me sad.

[flowergirl]

Morphius,

There is no way such a tax increase would ever make it through a Republican-controlled Congress, so that doesn't really concern me.

[Mosbonian]

Drew: I want to thank you for proving my point in post #42. Your assertion is patently ridiculous and devoid of any reality.

If you wish to discuss policy seriously, I will respond.

[G_Man]

Clint - Control of congress is pretty weak right now, so we could end up with another couple years of democrats and democrats, which means even higher taxes for us "upper class".

[Dog Day]

Why is that, Morphious? Is that some of that conservative arrogance/frustration boiling over? I don't see it your way so I'm both an idiot and un-American.

Hint: That's why these GOP candidates keep getting their heads handed to them? Y'all have an almost comical superiority complex and your candidates take the people for granted. W. figured he could win it just smirking and looking like daddy and hoping the Rush Limbaughs could discredit the evil liberals. It backfired, and W. doesn't know what the hell to do. He underestimated the American people, and they now realize he's a package, not a man.

[kcmax]

As the talk has switched somewhat to taxes, let me have a moment to get on my soap box about what should by all rights be Gore's policy Achilles Heel - targeted tax cuts. This phrase gets mashed in with "for the working class" and half the voting public says "hey, that's me."

But what is a targeted tax cut? From what I've seen of the proposal, it is incentivizing the entire tax structure. What this means is, if targeted tax cuts become reality, millions of arousal gappers will wake up one April, begin their taxes and come to the sobering realization that THEY DID NOT LIVE THEIR LIVES ACCORDING TO IRS GUIDELINES. That working class tax cut they were looking forward to, the one promised by Gore, well its coming but not to them. If only they'd had another kid, or not. If only they'd bought this or that "green" item instead of the economical brand. If only they'd invested here, instead of there. They too would meet the muster and get to reach out for those carrots the gov't is dangling.
What's sad is these gappers, once they get over their disappointment, will blame themselves. Not the tax system that picks winners and losers.
I for one do not want to live my life to satisfy a government form, in the hopes of getting back the money I made with my effort. I realize that, to an extent, this happens now. But what Gore proposes takes it to another level.

[G_Man]

Drew - That is funny! You make me sad because you percieve your views on the way a guy looks to you, pretty impressive way to make a pick. I guess Stephen Hawkins would have been condemened as useless by you as well.

I have watched some interviews with Bush and he answered all the questions in a good manner, and a lot of them were of perceived ideas about him. I watch the media and their big story is of a Rats line in an add and other such things that don't have anything to do with what he is saying.

BTW, how many times is Gore going to have to reinvent himself before he figures out who he really is?

[Cormac]

To think Gore more intelligent then Dubya is purely cock-ka. Gore is the twin of that stupid mayor on Spin City. He'll do anything or say anything just to get elected.

Facts:

Gore's plans that are being touted in the campaign would cause the biggest growth of the US federal government since the Roosevelt administration. I don't know about you, but I think the government is big enough now. Voting for Gore is a mandate for more taxes.

I for one like the proprosal being passed in Congress. It calls for 90% of the budget surplus to go directly to paying down the national debt. It isn't a tax cut but the next best thing.



[This message has been edited by mlyonsd (edited 09-19-2000).]

[flowergirl]

Morphius,

I get what you're saying, but I can't help it:

"I watch the media and their big story is of a Rats line in an add and other such things that don't have anything to do with what he is saying."

The add was unethical mudslinging to say the least. It says something about Bush's character. However, I personally don't think it's a big deal.

I felt the same way about the whole Lewinsky mess. Sure, it said something about Clinton's character, but it had nothing to do with his performance as President. It is also the best evidence of the liberal "control" of the media being exaggerated by those with an interest in making the Dems look bad.

What comes around goes around.

[Mosbonian]

Mark: I too like that proposal because it keeps more capital (money) available for private consumption. This means the 'price' of money, aka Interest goes down so the cost of things, like Cars, homes, and on credit cards.

It has been noticeable that as the surpluses continue, the economy buzzes along quite nicely.

Now, if only they could cut Cap Gains taxes or at least index them for inflation we might actually see economic growth higher than 2-3%

[flowergirl]

I am curious about one thing regarding Bush: How is he going to "cut taxes" and "rebuild the military" (a multi-trillion dollar task) within 4 or 8 years, without ending every social program in this country or causing the national debt to balloon completely out of control?

[scott in spfd]

I found it curious that of the L.A. Times, and New York Times only the Washington Times found this story to be worthy of front page top. But upon reading in the editorial section the word 'Stench" assigned to the Gore/Leiberman campaign, the picture became much clearer. From now on, let's post articles from a more balanced circular - like MAD.

[Dog Day]

Morphius:

You just assume that I make these comments based on what I'm told to believe. This is not the case. I watched Bush at the GOP convention with a 100% open mind and was severly dissappointed in what I saw. Since then, he has done nothing to change my opinion that he either lacks the experience or the intelligence to be trusted with the toughest job on the planet.

I'm not real wild about Gore, either. Thus, my opinion has nothing to do with the advocacy of Gore.<P>

[Mosbonian]

Clint: I have to agree with you on the Lewinsky thing. It did prove convincingly that the press is 'sympathetic' to a fault towards Clinton.

There's no way a Republican survives the scandal. First, the congress wouldnt have stood for it. Second, the media would have stirred up the public into a lynch mob.

How else can one explain the increase in popularity of a person who just lied to the American people as well as committed perjury.

[kcmax]

Media Spin

Dubya - even though he made it through Yale, he must be stupid. Someone said he made a C+ in a math class in high school, mention that. Otherwise, just keep insinuating 'til we can find a fact.

Gore - Even though he flunked out of seminary school with 5 F's in 8 classes during his brief tenure there and later quit law school, characterize those as times as "eras of great personal growth" AND MOVE ON [OK, if you can kind a flattering photo from the time, preferably where he looks studious not stone, flash that up there too]. Quick, flash forward to the publication of "Earth in the Balance." Surely a book written by one of the true sage's of our time.

[G_Man]

Drew - I was going by what you said earlier about the way he looks like a deer staring into head lights, of course how you make this assumption on a speech and the clips of bush answering the one last blurted out question as he is walking away is beyond me.

[flowergirl]

Do you want to know why, IMO, the media is biased?

Look at many of the people that write the articles. Think about the kids that wrote for your high school and/or college newspapers. Coffee drinking, poetry reading tree huggers. Arteests. Peace symbols in the rear window of their cars, and crystals dangling from their rear-view mirrors. Granted, these are generalizations, but I have personally seen enough of them to know that much of what I just typed is true.

Are you REALLY surprised that the media leans to the left in general?

[flowergirl]

IMO, the reason Clinton's popularity went up is because people were more offended by the Republican witchhunt than by Clinton lying about a B.J.

Once more, assuming the average American blindly follows whatever the media feeds them...unless they're conservative, of course.

[G_Man]

Clint #74 - I well tell you the diff between the media press. For one full year we heard crap about the OJ trial every single day, even though most people porbably could care less. Yet it is what the media kept saying everyone is talking about. Now when the Clinton scandle breaks, within a week they are already talking about how everyone is bored of it and how everyone thinks we should just move on.

I also feel that Clinton gets everything he deserves because he has been quoted twice as saying that people should be kicked out of the office or voted out of the office for lying to the American People, and then to turn around and do the exact same thing is completely hypocritical. One of those, if you talk the talk, then walk the walk kind of things.

[G_Man]

Clint - #83 is right on the money, and is exactly how I see it.

[Mosbonian]

Clint: perfect case in point. Your portrayal of the issue in #83 proves my point yet again.

Im not suprised that the media is 'left' leaning. What suprises me is the the fact that apparently people still believe them enough to take their 'word' for things as evidenced by your statement in #83.

[Dog Day]

Actually, I said he had the spark in his eye of a road killed skunk. Made no mention of deer at all.

You go ahead and assume my involvement and attention as much as you like. Its typical GOP behavior: you apparently know more about me than I do. If that makes you feel better, more power to you.

The guy is a living lie. He's a silver spooned, blue blood who's main campaign piece portrays him as a Texas rancher. I'd bet he hasn't so much had a speck of cow snot get on his pants in his life, much less run a ranch. Yet there he is, playing on his big ranch bought with old money, trying to dupe me into believing he is what he isn't. That offends me right off-- gets the hackles up, so to speak. Then, I see he can't answer basic questions, and I begin to formulate an opinion. After all, he's asking to be the most powerful man in the world. In my opinion, before you even get to talking about ideology, the man doesn't measure up. He has no business, no qualification, no noticable attribute that makes him worthy of the job.

[Raiderhater]

Drew:

Can you actually say you watched the Democratic Convention with any less disdain?
That was one of the best, Hollywood-orchestrated, pimping and pandering sessions I have ever seen.

First, having to watch Clinton was bad enough as he tried not to steal the limelight, but still managed to pat himself on the back and not break his arm doing it.

Then to have to watch Hillary use the time allotted to her as nothing more than a televised commercial for her Senate race in New York(her opponent should have asked for equal time on the network), and pretending that she even cared about Gore much less liked the guy.

Third, to see the contrived entrance for Gore that was something out of a Wrestlemania Event from the WWF(remember they were there at the convention as they were at the Republican convention also), and to have to witness that "thing" they called "The Kiss" on nationwide TV.

Now we have to watch while Lieberman backpeddles on everything that he railed about during Cliinton's debacle.

Talk about reasons not to trust anyone by looking into their eyes.

mmaddog
*****************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

[G_Man]

Drew - Just making assumptions off of what you say, which is all we can do. Of course instead of refuting the comments you just argue that I'm mean spirited, hmmm how original and so Donky like.

In this election both guys are old money and Gore is trying to pass himself of a working man, so then both should disguest you to a point of vomit. How odd that only Bush doing it seems to bother you.

[Mosbonian]

The guy is a living lie. He's a silver spooned, blue blood...

Yep, that's Algore for you.<P>

[scott in spfd]

Taxes, did someone say taxes?
The U.S. tax structure has always been about incentives - and penalties, Gore, unlike the internet, is not inventing that. He's proposing a system that allows more people, from every income level to participate in tax relief, spread out over a realistic period of time that won't stick us in yet another trillion dollar rathole that we've all spent eight years trying to crawl out of. If bankrupting the surplus to give everyone enough pocket change for a couple of car payments makes sense, I'm sure Dubya's handlers will welcome your support.

[Dog Day]

Actually, Gore bothers me too. I'll probably obstain from voting on the Presidential election. I think these guys are a reflection of how the GOP witchhunt, combined with Clinton's shenanigans of the last eight years, destroyed the sanctity of the Office. The people that are really qualified are too smart to run.

If you look at it honestly, Clinton was just just a big fat old target before he was a culprit. They dug in and started throwing and then justified it all when something eventually stuck. That'll happen to the next President, and the next, and so on. The smart one's are hiding out of the public eye.

[This message has been edited by Donkey Drew (edited 09-19-2000).]

[Raiderhater]

Anyone wanna bet that we will all be subjected to at least 20 showings of the movie "The American President" the end of October and the beginning of November to remind us "Liberals good, Conservatives bad".

What a pathetically Liberal leaning movie(although it is entertaining...)

mmaddog
*************

------------------
"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

[wutamess]

Durtman-

There is no “surplus.” There would only be a surplus if the money belonged to the government. The “surplus” is a result of overtaxation. That is MY money and I want it back.

xoxo~
gaz
greedy S.O.B.<BR>

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Aides concede Gore made up story
(about drug medicine costs)
http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000919232831.htm

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Oops, wrong link...
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000919/pl/campaign_dog_dc_1.html

[scott in spfd]

Gaz-

The "Deficit" is yours as well. Want that back too?

Your humble Durtyboy

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Of course, if you want to see what Oprah thinks, you can go here...
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20000919/el/bush_145.html

[wutamess]

Durtman-

I’ve been paying on the deficit for years now, thank you…

It steams my clams to hear someone pontificating about how we must spend the surplus.

THERE IS NO SURPLUS!

It’s my **** money and I want it back.

xoxo~
gaz
overtaxed, underweight and not at all happy about it.<BR>

[flowergirl]

Gaz,

I agree. Take the surplus, divide it by the number of working citizens in this country, and start mailing out the checks. It wouldn't be much, but I'd rather blow a few hundred dollars foolishly than let some politician apply it to some "program".

I think I'm starting to become a friggin' anarchist!

[King_Chief_Fan]

It seems Algore learned more than a few tricks from his boss.

Remember Slick Willy waxing emotional about his 'vivid recolections of black church burnings during his boyhood in Ark'.

Fact:

There's no record of black church burnings during Willy's childhood in Ark. Several blacks who have lived in that area their whole lives have no clue what the 1st liar is talking about.

Gore like Slick Willy will say or do anything to get elected. Including bald faced lies.

[Mosbonian]

Deficit is the opposite of surplus. You cannot have both at the same time.

If you were referring to the debt, well, that's another story. We can pay the debt off if Congress doesnt go looney with spending again.

Easiest way to accomplish these tasks are to create a Balanced Budget ammendment eliminating deficits and a line item veto to eliminate pork barrel spending.

Funny thing, though, democrats killed both measures.

[flowergirl]

Probably because of other pork in those bills.

[Mosbonian]

Clint: that, of course, assumes that everyone paid the same amount of $$ into the treasury which is false.

[scott in spfd]

Gaz -
I just love it when you use "Pontiff" in describing my posts, it makes me feel so...holy (by the way, it's a bad month for clams..) If there is no surplus, then what are Beany and Cecil proposing to give back to us? Booty? That stuff over there?
Caught in semantic hell-
Durt

[Cormac]

OK, lets call it a tax surplus.

Is anyone for paying down the debt with it? I like the Repub's proprosal for taking 90% and putting it towards the deficit.

It isn't a tax break but still a good use of the money.

[This message has been edited by mlyonsd (edited 09-19-2000).]

[Mosbonian]

Clint: amazing.

The Balanced Budget ammendment cannot contain anything other than the ammendment because unlike a law/bill would then be sent to the states for ratification.

In order to get it to the states, the ammendment must receive 2/3 majority--it required democrats to vote for it as well as republicans. It fell 1 vote short in the Senate although I do believe it passed the house.

pork cannot be attached.

The Line Item veto was actually signed into law and used for about a year. the pork barrell king, Robert Byrd of WV, contested the constitutionality of the line item veto which is used by many states and it was struck down.

That's what happened, you can thank the Dems for resisting changes that could improve our current situation and retaining the status quo. How proud they must be.<P>

[flowergirl]

KCTitus,

I know it wouldn't be fair, but the govt. deciding on how to spend the money they squeezed from us is even more unfair.

I know it's idealistic, but it's a nice fantasy!

[Cormac]

Speaking of trolls, Byrd is the perfect example of why we should have term limits.

[Mosbonian]

Mark, et al. Deficit and Debt are two different things.

Deficit occurs when you spend more than you receive during a single fiscal period.

The Debt is the total amount of all of the deficits.

I would like to see us pay down the debt first as well as privatize social security and slash medicare.

[flowergirl]

Assuming you're right about the line-item veto, what would be the reasoning behind voting it down?

[Cormac]

gregg, you are right, I stand corrected.

[Dog Day]

"Funny thing, though, democrats killed both measures."

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the GOP get its shot at the Presidency while holding Congress. Only then can we free ourselves of their ridiculous, pie-in-the-sky rhetoric about how its all the Democrats fault, and about all the galant efforts they've made only to be shot down by the evil liberals. Call me crazy, but I think even pious GOPers read polls now and then. Lets see how they react swimming against those polls. Says here it'll be about the same.

[wutamess]

Durtman-

Yes, “that stuff over there” that they took from me under threat of force. The tiny bit left that they somehow failed to misuse.

They take 40% of my income, waste 30% of it, and then have the gall to tell me they won’t give back the .05% they failed to squander. They have to “protect it” because I am too stupid to spend it wisely.

No wonder I am a Libertarian.

Any time there is a “surplus,” my taxes should automatically drop.

Any time there is a deficit, one random congressperson should be executed per week until speding decreases.

xoxo~
gaz
filing “surplus” away with “campaign reform” and “responsible government.”<BR>

[Mosbonian]

Drew: It would be interesting, but one still has to be aware that 'just having' the presidency does not inhibit the Dems from retaining the status quo.

As mentioned in both measures, it was contested not by a majority but the minority and won. Line Item veto was brought to court by ONE man--the ONE man, that enjoyed the ability to spend 85% of the federal highway funds in the early 90's on his home state alone.

In the second measure, it required bipartisanship to be sent to the states. It again failed by 1 vote. The reps were acting on promises, the dems protecting the status quo. You cannont deny those facts.

[b-squared]

[I am curious about one thing regarding Bush: How is he going to "cut taxes" and "rebuild the military" (a multi-trillion dollar task) within 4 or 8 years, without ending every social program in this country or causing the national debt to balloon completely out of control?]

Clint
what would be so bad about cutting social programs?<BR>

[scott in spfd]

Gaz-
...Filing "Campaign Reform" and "Responsible Government" under "Oxymoron". Gotta go- the folder's burning. See you in the bleachers.
yer pal,
Durt (failed to heed warning of political topic) man<BR>

[Dog Day]

I know this: there's a hell of a big difference between having power and philosophizing about it. It's like the campaign reform b.s. these Congressional candidates bring up every two years. It sounds great on the stump, but then gets 'hung up in committee' or 'killed by them <fill in the blank>' once that guy gets to Congress.

It's one thing to talk about surpluses and S.S. and so forth when you know your talk is harmless rhetoric. It's entirely different when you can actually do something about it. The powers that be in the GOP are everybit as political as those Democrats, and they read polls. I guaruntee you, some of these promises they make will get 'hung up in committee' or 'killed by them' as soon as it is no longer politically expiedient talk about them.

[Cormac]

I agree Drew, that's what happened to term limits.

[Dog Day]

The U.S. Congress is a freakin' joke and a disgrace to this Country. Every single one of them hits the District and sells out immediately.

[Mosbonian]

That is true, Drew. However, in those two cases, the Republicans did ACT as they said they would. Both items were wildly popular and failed thanks to the Democrats.

Mark is right about term limits and is a good case in point. Ask yourself this, would term limits even be discussed had the Dems retained congress? Dont make me laugh.

[Dog Day]

KC:

Perhaps I'm cynical, but my feeling is that they support such things for the martyrdom more than the principal. They probably wouldn't dare try it if they new they could actually pass it. That'd piss off too many big dollar donors and too many constituents. Being a martyr, though, can be spun and made impressive, no matter what the cause. And don't get me wrong-- this isn't just a GOP trait. This is across the board. Everything that happens in Congress now is for the visual or 30 second sound bite effect, nothing else. Make it real, and they'd bail in a heartbeat.

[Mosbonian]

There's a real easy solution to campaign finance problem.

Eliminate soft money, hard donations only with FULL disclosure.

McCain/Feingold would have required a change in the first ammendment to the constitution. Talk about your slippery slopes.

[b-squared]

Drew

It is not just the congress that is a joke. Our whole gov't system is leaning that way.

The problem is that neither party likes to agree with the other. Therefore nothing gets done to benefit us, the citizens that put up with the crap.

TWB
LESS GOVERNMENT IN 2000

[Mosbonian]

Cynical, maybe. You'll meet no one more cynical than myself. It would have been a whole 'nother story had they campaigned on it and then not even brought it up for a vote. They almost passed it. That says a lot to me anyway.

You cant blame the reps for not trying in those cases. Do they fold to political pressure, sure. They are politicians for goodness sake.

Bottom line is of the two parties, I see one that is trying to change things, I see the other fighting to maintain the same old failed systems that we have dropped over 6 Trillion dollars into only to make things worse. To me the choice is quite obvious.

[flowergirl]

Titus,

How do feel about the Libertarian Party? I know that a vote is wasted on them right now, and Congress would stifle any dramatic new policies a Libertarian President would introduce, but what about their ideals? I for one like what I've heard so far.

[kcmax]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Assuming you're right about the line-item veto, what would be the reasoning behind voting it down? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no provision in the Constitution that authorizes the President to enact, to AMEND, or to repeal statutes. Moreover, after a bill has passed both Houses of Congress, but "before it become[s] a Law," it must be presented to the President [the Presentment Clause]. If he approves it, "he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it." His "return" of a bill, which is usually described as a "veto," is subject to being overridden by a two-thirds vote in each House. There are important differences between the President's "return" of a bill pursuant to Article I, § 7, and the exercise of the President's cancellation authority pursuant to the Line Item Veto Act. The constitutional return takes place before the bill becomes law; the statutory cancellation occurs after the bill becomes law. The constitutional return is of the entire bill; the statutory cancellation is of only a part.

[cont'd]

[kcmax]

Short and sweet, the legislature is empowered to craft legislation through aliiance and compromise. The president is NOT empowered to take that crafted legislation and pick and choose what parts of [s]he wants. What would result is NOT what the legislature authorized him to sign into law.

Picture if a car dealership manager had the line item veto. You dicker with the salesman until you have an agrement on the options and the price. You pay your money. Then the manager says, we'll keep your money, but I'm vetoing the alloy wheels and airocnidtioning. You didn't make a deal for a car without air conditioning or alloy wheels, but they have your money and your signature. Welcome to your new car.<BR>

[Mosbonian]

Clint: as I grow older, I become more and more Libertarian.

You are right that a vote libertarian is pretty much a 'wasted' vote, but a vote nonetheless.<P>

[Mosbonian]

Johnny: That is true, but the Veto was limited to spending items only. I would have to go back and find the bill text.

[flowergirl]

I can certainly see how that could be a problem.

Maybe the line-item veto wouldn't be necessary if any one bill could only contain ONE subject.

[wutamess]

Clint-

That’s the ticket. No more omnibus bills.

xoxo~
gaz
actually likes his “execution” plan better, but is willing to compromise.<BR>

[Mosbonian]

Ok...here's the original bill text. The Line Item Veto act of 1995:

(a) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding the provisions of part B of title X of The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, and subject to the provisions of this section, the President may rescind all or part of any discretionary budget authority for fiscal years 1996 or 1997 which is subject to the terms of this Act if the President--

(1) determines that--

(A) such rescission would help balance the Federal budget, reduce the Federal budget deficit, or reduce the public debt;

(B) such rescission will not impair any essential Government functions;

(C) such rescission will not harm the national interest; and

(D) such rescission will directly contribute to the purpose of this Act of limiting discretionary spending in fiscal years 1996 or 1997, as the case may be; and

(2) notifies the Congress of such rescission by a special message not later than twenty calendar days (not including Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays) after the date of enactment of a regular or supplemental appropriations act for fiscal year 1996 or 1997 or a joint resolution making continuing appropriations providing such budget authority for fiscal year 1996 or 1997, as the case may be.

The President shall submit a separate rescission message for each appropriations bill under this paragraph.

The congress could override each veto like a general veto.

This is the link to the bill (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c104:7:./temp/~c10492cQ09::)

[G_Man]

Clint that is what I was thinking, now addons. I'm tired of my money going to things that we are only paying for because someone in Congress was owed a favor. I'm sure the military is tired of having their budget used to buy things they say they don't want or need, but it gets built because the factory is in someone's area.

[flowergirl]

Gaz,

I like the execution plan myself...but who's gonna vote in favor of it?

[G_Man]

JC - The thing is that if the president crosses out a piece of a spending bill it does not mean that they Congress can't resubmit it on its own. If something can't stand on its own should it really be passed?

[Iowanian]

I am curious about one thing regarding Bush: How is he going to "cut taxes" and "rebuild the military" (a multi-trillion dollar task) within 4 or 8 years, without ending every social program in this country or causing the national debt to balloon completely out of control?]

Very simple, quit using the military as a diversion to your own bad conduct (bombing aspirin factories... etc.) and require that any military expeditions are paid for out of special appropriations for that operation not the current year budget.

[kcmax]

po-tae-to, po-tah-to.

If a piece of legislation [formulated by 535 persons, elected to promulgate legislation] cannot stand on its own without the Chief Executive playing editor, should IT stand at all?

BTW, although none spring immediately to mind [darn brain, filled with thought of work], a number of significant measures widely accepted and hailed today have made it into law, not because they had wide support at the time, but because a representative, or small contingent of representatives, felt strongly enough to make their pledge of support on the issues of the day contingent on inclusion of their language. Its not ALL about pork.

[AustinChief]

Oxford - A great many of those social programs you are complaining about are already drastically reduced. No longer can welfare moms live generation to generation and collect indeterminate amounts of money for great amounts of time.

Others will become more self sufficient. Soc Sec needs severe overhauling and privatization or required 401k's are an excellent beginning.

"Poor planning on your behalf does not constitute an emergency on mine"

[Idaho Chief]

I dont like either one of these guys.

We need reform and overhaul in almost every aspect of government, healthcare, education, etc.

Neither seems to offer much change in the existing system(s) to suite my preference.

<BR>

[JOhn]

Not reading all the responses, I would like to share my opinion on the election.

Gore is my choice because I am an educator and it is important to keep in office those that consider education in the forfront.

Bush and his cut taxes just don't mix with better salaries and more money for education.

[G_Man]

Pam - Tax cuts help us all, not just a select few. Something to think about.

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

dawsonpa,

Uh, how does a federal tax cut effect State paid teacher's salaries?

Federal unfunded mandates for Special Ed, however, eat up a tremendous portion of the State's educational budgets ~ Bush would like to reduce these unfunded mandates.

Bush would also like to give poor children the opportunity to attend better schools, and thereby improve their chances of breaking the poverty cycle (to 'not be left behind').

Bush's #1 priority is education.

How then, do you justify voting for Gore?

Luz
would really like to know... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif

[This message has been edited by Luzap (edited 09-19-2000).]

[sd4chiefs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Gore is my choice because I am an educator and it is important to keep in office those that consider education in the forfront.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Education is important, but I'm not sure Gore is the answer to keeping it in the forefront.

[This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 09-19-2000).]

[ck_IN]

If education was important to the democrats, teachers would be making a lot more money than they are...

[b-squared]

I don't see Gore making education his top priority. What has he done for it in the past 8 years? The answer is....very little. Both are on their campaign trail making their promises. Who is going actually come through?

I am against Gore because of his past records. What has the Dem. administration done? They have a surplus, which is our money from over taxing us. Any party can accomplish that, but only the Dems. choose to do it.

TWB
LESS GOVERNMENT IN 2000

[b-squared]

I don't see Gore making education his top priority. What has he done for it in the past 8 years? The answer is....very little. Both are on their campaign trail making their promises. Who is going actually come through?

I am against Gore because of his past records. What has the Dem. administration done? They have a surplus, which is our money from over taxing us. Any party can accomplish that, but only the Dems. choose to do it.

TWB
LESS GOVERNMENT IN 2000

[Mosbonian]

47mack: in order to achieve a surplus, the Congress, which spends the money, must maintain some discipline not to spend more than they receive.

During the 1980's the tax revenues doubled, but the democrates outpaced increasing revenues with their exponential spending increases.

[AustinChief]

More crap from Gore and his illusionary life:

First he "creates" the internet...

Next he "embellishes" the facts on his mother-in-laws medications vs. his dogs.

Now he tells the Teamsters a touching story how his mother would sing lullabies to him in his cradle. One of his favorites was the ageless classic "look for the union label". Endearing isn't it? Too bad the tune was constructed in 1975 and not mass produced until 1977. So unless Al had his mother singing to him at the ripe age of TWENTY-SEVEN I guess we can assume this is yet another falsehood.

After listening to his unmitigated CRAP for the last 2 months, I have noted that he has learned one good thing in the last 8 months - How to lie as well as his boss.