Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17291629)

It was not unfair, it was true.

This dude had some powerhouse Eagles teams and just couldnt get over the hump to the Superbowl. An alleged offensive guru accompanied by not only one of the greatest defensive minds in football in Jim Johnson, but a ferocious defensive squad at his disposal on the field. Just couldn't get it done.


Let's be real, The Patriots cheated for that Eagles Superbowl, but the way the final 5 minutes of the game was coached by Reid was abysmal and it cost them the football game.


Then the best quarterback to have ever lived dropped into his lap, and what do you know? Heroics by said best qb who ever lived brought home a Lombardi, and after a couple bumps in the road, more heroics by said best qb who ever lived ON ONE LEG, delivered another Lombardi.

Legendary players mask warts and overcome shortcomings on the sideline.

If George Karl had Michael Jordan, he wouldn't be one of only 9 coaches to win 1,000 games but no championship despite 22 postseason appearances. Poor George was another great coach that just never got that legendary player to put his squad over the top.

If Andy Reid had not gotten Mahomes, he'd still be a great coach that won a lot of games, but he wouldn't be a Superbowl winning coach. Look at the playoff performances pre Mahomes.

He presided over two of the worst playoff collapses in NFL history of 28 points to Indy, and 18 points to Tennessee, with a completely impotent offensive display against the Steelers in which we lost the game despite the defense never giving up a td and holding them to 6 field goals.

No Mahomes, no titles for Andy.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17292015)

How many HCs in the past 25 years won a Super Bowl without a HOF qb? There’s a lot of luck that goes into being just bad enough to pick up a great qb at the right time. If Reid flipped his career and won a Super Bowl early with mahomes, then was successful with Alex smith followed by an annual nfc conference championship team in Philly for decades (including a Super Bowl appearance) he’d be a consensus GOAT. Because very very few have had that level of success with more than 1 franchise. Why is later success treated more harshly than early success?

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17291935)

Unbiased looks at Andy Reid aren't really your strong suit. Youre free to attempt to refute what ive posted here, but its hard to refute facts.

People like to pretend that Andy was this genius in Philly that made chicken salad from chicken shit and that he never had anyone that was any good. Those Philly teams he squandered were more than talented enough to be a dynasty. Just didn't happen.

As for your question, asked and answered, in this thread as well as others. Do try to keep up.

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...&postcount=109

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 17291975)

Let's look at this another way. Do you think if you dug up 1980s Bill Walsh and put him as head coach of this years New England team they have more than 3 wins right now? What about Andy Reid? Joe Gibbs?

I think all 3 of those guys would have more than 3 wins with the current NE roster in today's NFL. You also cannot discount the fact that Belichick's teams have been through 2 cheating scandals.

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17292057)

Almost a third of them? 8 of the last 25 Superbowl winners don't have hall of fame qbs.

1. Sean McVey with Matt Stafford.
2. Doug Pedersen with Nick Foles
3. Pete Carrol with Russell Wilson
4. John Harbaugh with Joe Flacco
5/6. Tom Coughlin did it twice with Eli Manning
7. John Gruden with Brad Johnson
8. Brian Billick with Trent Dilfer.

Now before all the cromagnons start screeching and pointing at defenses, do try to keep in mind that during Andy's Philly run, he had a ferocious defensive unit, led by Jim Johnson, one of the best to ever do it.

Andy had as much to work with, if not arguably more than these coaches did. During this run, McNabb was like 3rd in passing yards and 4th in td passes. He just didn't get it done.

He earned every bit of the "can't win the big one" criticism. Those were absolutely championship caliber football teams that took the field for him during that run.

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper (Post 17292237)

I would be surprised if Wilson, Manning, and Stafford don't ALL end up in the HOF.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17292243)

Manning certainly.

Wilson I kind of doubt.

Stafford at this point in time I doubt.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17292243)

Manning certainly.

Wilson I kind of doubt.

Stafford at this point in time I doubt.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17292294)

Stafford's interesting.

He's likely going to end up as a top 10 all-time passer in terms of yards. And he's won a SB. But he's never won, or even been seriously considered, any major award. I guess comeback player of the year counts, but he's never so much as rec'd a single MVP vote that I can see.

Wilson has the same issue (no MVP votes; no real awards to speak of) but unlike Stafford he's been to 9 Pro Bowls. Staffords only ever been named to one. That's a tough hill to climb when it comes to HoF voters, IMO.

I think Stafford could have been, perhaps SHOULD have been, a HoF quarterback. But those years he spent being beaten to death and ultimately wasted in Detroit will probably be the reason he doesn't get there.

I'd have loved to have seen what Stafford's career could've been in a better organization. The raw talent is off the charts. He's hard as a coffin nail and smarter than anyone realized he'd be. He could've been an all time great, IMO.

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar (Post 17292307)

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17292294)

Stafford's interesting.

He's likely going to end up as a top 10 all-time passer in terms of yards. And he's won a SB. But he's never won, or even been seriously considered, any major award. I guess comeback player of the year counts, but he's never so much as rec'd a single MVP vote that I can see.

Wilson has the same issue (no MVP votes; no real awards to speak of) but unlike Stafford he's been to 9 Pro Bowls. Staffords only ever been named to one. That's a tough hill to climb when it comes to HoF voters, IMO.

I think Stafford could have been, perhaps SHOULD have been, a HoF quarterback. But those years he spent being beaten to death and ultimately wasted in Detroit will probably be the reason he doesn't get there.

I'd have loved to have seen what Stafford's career could've been in a better organization. The raw talent is off the charts. He's hard as a coffin nail and smarter than anyone realized he'd be. He could've been an all time great, IMO.

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17292057)

Almost a third of them? 8 of the last 25 Superbowl winners don't have hall of fame qbs.

1. Sean McVey with Matt Stafford.
2. Doug Pedersen with Nick Foles
3. Pete Carrol with Russell Wilson
4. John Harbaugh with Joe Flacco
5/6. Tom Coughlin did it twice with Eli Manning
7. John Gruden with Brad Johnson
8. Brian Billick with Trent Dilfer.

Now before all the cromagnons start screeching and pointing at defenses, do try to keep in mind that during Andy's Philly run, he had a ferocious defensive unit, led by Jim Johnson, one of the best to ever do it.

Andy had as much to work with, if not arguably more than these coaches did. During this run, McNabb was like 3rd in passing yards and 4th in td passes. He just didn't get it done.

He earned every bit of the "can't win the big one" criticism. Those were absolutely championship caliber football teams that took the field for him during that run.