Albert Haynesworth had 30 tackles and 1 sack as a rookie. Now he has 14.5 sacks over the past 2 seasons and is looking like a DPOY candidate again. I wonder if Titans fans were calling him a bust (especially after the head stomping incident). Probably not quite as much as Chiefs fans are with Dorsey because I can't imagine any other fanbase having as many dumbasses like you. So before you continue to prove your ignorance how about you just shut the **** up.

Cool I just think it is way too early to know. I agree to disagree :)

Did you see Haynesworth being a good football player after he put almost the exact same stat line through 16 games as a rookie that Dorsey has put up through 11 games?

My god your a ****ing tool.

Since dorsey isn't playing well why don't we try him at a different position to get some sort of value. Maybe we can play him on special teams to block for our return game.

You call me ignorant, read your own post and tell me who is ignorant. You hypocritical bastard

Stats are not a telling story about DT play.

On a serious note, what specifically do you guys mean by he’s being played differently than college? I mean I DO NOT for a moment think he’s a bust, however I won’t pretend to know the intricacies of the D-Line as well as others. So can I get a gist of what is meant by that?

thanks

He could end up being a bust, he could end up in the Hall Of Fame.

Anyone calling him a for sure bust, doesn't know how to read stat lines.

Look at all the dominant DT's in the NFL right now, then refer back to their rookie year stat lines.

It is incredibly easy to prove that a DT's rookie season doesn't prove sh*t.

That's not an opinion, it's statistical fact.

In college he was allowed to go up the field and make plays, making penitration is the key. The way we are using him right now is to have him Stand up and pushed back 5 yards where he will either fall down or fall down while the ball carrier goes past him

Patience is a virtue. Especially as it relates to Defensive Tackles.

jokes aside, are you saying he was supposed to get upfield in college and here his job is to draw doubleteams?

Pretty much.

No, your entitlement to an opinion has been revoked.

well HTF does Herm/Gun expect to get sacks if we apparently arent going for them? if he cant get upfield then who IS supposed to?

thx btw :hail:

I love it you throw a rookie DT under the bus, when there are way more problems on this team and people to throw under the bus

You absolutely do.

I just don't like seeing the worst season I have ever seen as a Chiefs fan be blamed on one guy. Yes, he was our highest pick, yes he is making millions, but money doesn't buy experience. That is a real guy out there who is trying his best to flow the sinking ship just a little while longer.

Last year at this time, least we forget, he was probably studying for an algebra test. Now he's being judged by millions of pissed off fans looking for someone's head to roll while trying to learn an extremely tough position especially for NFL players.

I know it may be early...but honestly i really dont like what i see in him. He is not showing any signs of progress, he gets pushed back quite a bit and often. I dont see him using any moves, its just pure raw straight bull rush 90% of the time. He lacks explosion BIGTIME. that is coming off the ball.

His footwork is absolutely terrible.

Lack or explosion and bad footwork=death for any lineman

Tank and Dorsey need to switch. Tank is built to be the double team blocking machine. I have no clue why those dumb idiots are doing what they are doing.

good question. toss that one up during the next 810 call in or the next 101 the fox post game.

It's not fair to point fingers. Not saying he is the reason for the worst Chiefs season ever? but he is part of the equation? It's not all on him, its a combination of a lot of things for this absolute disaster. I believe ownership is the root of the problem.

ROFL

I will agree with your last statement, for sure. :D

Give him time. If he hasn't made strides in a year and begins to become the DT that he has the potential to become, then I'll completely agree with you.

As for now, your assessment of him is limited, as is everyone else's.

He is raw, but has talent and A LOT of upside.

Sapp had 27 Tackles 1 int in his rookie season.

Dorsey has already exceeded his tackles and matched his int stats. Plus forced a fumble in less games.

I just think everyone expected him to come in and explode off the ball, and pancake opposing guards. I knew that he would be slow in coming, DT's always are unless they have more talent on either side of them, which Dorsey most definatly does not have.

I believe he will be good and a much needed motivational leader for the Chiefs.

Dorsey is doing great for a rookie DT. I'd be interested to see the average years of playing some of these veteran O-lineman that Dorsey is positioned against. I honestly don't remember any real rookie guards or centers that he has played against, or any backups for that matter. Has he played against any?

The fact is the past five games are strictly on Herm/Gun's _efense as a unit. We can't get a pass rush, and our LB can't tackle for Shite. IMO Dorsey is the only one consistantly driving throughout the game. He is drawing the most double teams, and is the one who has IMO gotten the best penetration at the LOS, when we have gotten penetration.

So true, he draws double teams, and that SHOULD open up the opportunity for sacks or tackles for loss by other lineman/DE's. Sometimes the stats don't tell the whole truth of the player.

This will be a fun thread to bring up when dorsey gets help and coaching around him

Appreciate your encouragement of faith.

But he has a long, long way to go.

There is a lot of room for improvement thats for sure. He had great explosion and power for a DT coming out of college. I watched LSU games last year, so I don't doubt him in that regard. It just hasn't transcended well for him at the NFL level. Maybe part of the reason is his difficulty to adjust at the NFL level? The speed of the game is a heck of a lot faster.

*I don't consider Dorsey raw. He needs to do something that can improve on his technique, but I really think he is gonna need a great off-season workout going for him or something in order for himself to make strides.

I think he will be fine. The only concern is that he hasn't shown any Flashes this year. Every good young player shows Flashes of things to come every once in a while. A great play here or a great play there. He just hasn't had those yet. I'm not worried though. I think he will be a good player when he learns his technique.

Are you really dumb enough to compare a DE to a DT? I think there is a reason their positions have different names.

If you go back to the year 2000 and look at the draft classes of DT's picked in the top 10 then Dorsey is underperforming. I'll leave Okoye out since everyone is saying you need 3 years. The guys that come in strong appear to have the ability to keep it up with the exception of Warren who is merely average. The guys who started off slow pretty much busted.

Robertson (Jets 4th) - 34 tackles and 1.5 sacks. Current status - slumming with Denver.

Sullivan (Saints 6th) - 26 tackles and 1 sack. Current Status - out of football.

K. Williams (Vikings 9th) - * 18 tackles, 5 sacks, 1ff, 1 INT. - Status - Pro Bowl player**

R. Sims (KC) - only started 2 games rookie year. First full year 35 tackles and 3 sacks. Status - rotational DT with the Bucs.

J. Henderson (Jax 9th) - 46 tackles and 6.5 sacks. Status - High quality player.

G. Warren (Browns 3rd) - 48 tackles and 5.0 sacks. Status - starter Raiders.

Corey Simon (Eagles 6th) 38 tackles and 9.5 sacks. Status - After a strong 4 years he ballooned in weight and started holding out. He got fatter, got hurt and is retired (I believe).

* Kevin Williams played 4 games at the end of the year at DT. He started at LDE. The stats posted were his DT stats only (month of December).

Im just trying to prove a point that sometimes its not always about coaching.

Like some here make it seem.

Can't you give him more than 11 games? really

Some players can jump right in, most players take time. He was compared to Warren Sapp coming out, hes already done better than Sapp did and he still has 5 games left.

You're not really making any point at all.

Fine.

Then I would like to see from him:

-More power, and explosion coming off the ball

-Better footwork

-His ability to be in position to close gaps, fill in on angles to the ball carrier

-better hand eye coordination, and timing

If he is the exact same player by the end of next year then we may need to worry

Really? wow..i dont see any sapp in him

You don't see any Pro Bowler Sapp, or you don't see any rookie year Sapp? If you didn't know, which you likely don't, there is a difference.

Keep in mind his knees aren't 100% right now either.

And youre just being stupid

I'm sure the majority of CP thinks the same about you right now.

No.. just the typical Monday morning head up their ass stupidity. :spock:

I may be stupid. But I'm nowhere near as dumb as you appear right now. Sorry.

Since when has it been limited to Monday mornings?

And these, shall be my minions.

I a saying I came up with to keep me going in the mornings

"yesterdays tomorrows wednesday"

no I dont see any probowler or rookie sapp in him at this point. i really don't. and if thats what people are expecting, then just know he has a REALLY long way to go to get there.

Im convinced that people compare him to sapp from what they saw from coming out of college. but he hasnt shown that in the nfl. And of course there is the stats, sapp had 27 tackles his rookie year, and 3 sacks....but but dorsey has 30 tackles and 1 sack. Therefore, he is already ahead of what sapp did and will be a good player? which imo is totally stupid

*the bottomline is, ive watched him these past 11 games, and have kept my eye on him, he doesnt possess the skills or qualities sapp had playing the DT position. He is far far from it.

Whatever dude youre a waste of breath

Okay, stupid. Keep posting your stupid opinions, and I'll stop trying to straighten out your stupid thinking. OMGZ ROOKIE BUST :rolleyes:

He can be taught to long snap and take a pay cut next year. :thumb:

Williams is a freak of nature. He's clearly the exception and not the rule.

He played in 6 games his rookie season.
So it's not exactly like he posted those numbers straight out of college.

In fairness to Dorsey, Henderson played next to a very good Marcus Stroud.

Warren played well in his rookie campaign, but he also played next to Tyrone Rogers who was their best Defensive Lineman that year. A pretty good Defensive Line truth be told. He had a hell of a lot more around him.

Simon played with a very good Defensive Line.
Douglas had, what, 15 sacks that year? Hollis Thomas was there then...
Whiting, Mamula...

I'm not worried about Dorsey just yet.
He has virtually nothing around him and he's done okay.

True. It's now Monday afternoon. :D

Don't bring up Haynesworth...Dorsey and Haynesworth are nothing alike Haynesworth makes him look small he is several inches taller and 50lbs heavier.

I don't think Dorsey is a bad player, DTs do take time, but I do see a problem where he isn't big enough or strong enough so he needs to spend alot of time in the weight room in the offseason.

The league is going to the bigger 340lb DT now, those are the sought after guys...by having 2 undesized DT's like the Chiefs do it's almost like you're playing behind the curve the undersized fast DT was in 5 years ago but not now.

Tis a bounty to peruse. ROFL

everyone is entitled to an opinion asshole...there is a difference between accepting an opinion or just being an ignorant prick. Obviously you have a hard time accepting ones opinion

You didn't seem to be thinking this when you were saying the Chiefs should draft Sedrick Ellis.....

I could be wrong, but I really doubt you watched and payed attention to every snap Sapp took as a rookie, or even remember it without getting mixed up with how he played later.

When the opinion is unforgiveably stupid, I don't accept it. It appears I'm not alone in thinking your opinion is beyond dumb. So I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

I didn't say I had a problem with the pick....all rookie DT's will need to get bigger and stronger, even the really big guys.

I think Dorsey will be a fine player but I don't think they should be lining him up with another 300lb DT.

I said last night in another thread, I think we need to find a 330+ NT to line up next to Dorsey. For now I think we should have Tank and Dorsey switch places.

He is 2 of the following:

not strong enough, nor quick enough. He had both coming out of college, but the NFL is a different game. He has to improve his strength and quickness to the NFL level.

'Tis the curse of the Tampa 2, the in vogue defense from the days when Corduroy jeans were all the rage among high school kids.

I agree with that.....

Of course I don't think we'll see that because the Chiefs are still trying to run this Tampa 2 dinosaur that even Tampa Bay doesn't play anymore.

I think if he hits the weight room in the offseason, and gets both his knees back up to health in the offseason he will be fine.

We can only hope Herm takes the same approach with defense next year that he took with the offense this year. Hire a DC and let him do his thing!

He also needs to use some more rips and swims. Too many times he is focused on bullrushing.

He needs a Dline coach to help teach him that too.

No way Herm plays a different defense, he tried to play it with the Jets when they had 3-4 players.

Well I don't agree that the Jets had 3-4 players while Herm was there, but yeah I knew Herm wont leave the Tampa two. I just hope he at least bring in a staff that can run it. Drafting a huge DT in the later rounds would be nice though, since we don't run the T2 every down.

I never knew you were reeruned enough to proclaim a player a bust 11 games into his professional career. I'd say congratulations, but it just seems inappropriate.

He came in after Parcells....John Abraham was an OLB the year before Herm got there.

yeah, coaching makes NO difference (oh, sorry. I now see how you said it's a 'part')

coaching is the difference between a team that 'somehow' drafts only defensive line 'gems' in the first few rounds (patriots) and a team that apparently can't draft defensive linemen for SHIT in the first few rounds (chiefs)

coaching is the difference between a young, hyped OLB developing and a young hyped OLB regressing (derrick johnson)

coaching is why siavii, freeman, sims, and maybe (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey) are looked at as busts (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey, admittadely, are only really called busts by idjits)

coaching is the difference between a guy who dominates in college (dorsey) and a struggling rookie who apparently only has ONE passrushing move.

coaching is playing guys out of position (tyler and dorsey)

coaching is playing a piece of shit (mcintosh) and maybe letting a young/talented guy get a shot

yeah. coaching makes NO difference. I mean, yeah, I guess there's no reason that the good coaches get paid better than the bad coaches. if coaching made no difference, they'd all get paid the same.

dude, seriously. stop digging the hole.

wait--FOOTWORK. a position coach has NO reason to help a guy out with his footwork, correct? ****. coaching means NOTHING

Guinta couldn't do anything with KCs secondary, with the Giants he looks great.

The same guy who developed Eli and Romo also "developed" Carr and Couch.

coaching won't help this. guys miraculously get better, they shouldn't even ****ing pay the coaches. right? right?

Sapp's Stats

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="8%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>SOLO</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>PD</TD><TD>SACK</TD><TD>FF</TD><TD>REC</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>TD</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>1995</TD><TD align=left>TAM</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>26</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>3.0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Glenn Dorsey Stats

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="8%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>SOLO</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>PD</TD><TD>SACK</TD><TD>FF</TD><TD>REC</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>TD</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2008</TD><TD align=left>KAN</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>25</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So he has more tackles, a few less sacks, needs an int.... Ummm
These are actually pretty solid stats for a rookie D-Tackle, and Dorsey has 5 more games left. I agree that he isn't as influential as Sapp was his rookie season, but I also thought that Matt Ryan would be terrible, so what do I know.

but coaching isn't everything. coaching won't help dorsey. FLAIL FLAIL, OMG, TEH FIRST ROUND BUST! ROOKIE BUST! OMGZ

Who did Sapp have around him his rookie year?

depends on how you define 'great'

in 2007, they were 11th against the pass (giants). his secondaries ALSO benefit(ted) by having a tremendous pass rush ahead of them. you give some of those chiefs teams strahan, tuck and umenyiora, and I guarantee they're ranked higher than they ended up being ranked.

oh, and he had robinson to contend with in KC and an atmosphere of '**** defense.' he has one of, if not THE, best defensive coordinators in football in new york. you may have heard of him? steve spagnuola.

LMAO Your football knowledge knows no bounds...

:)