The slot is not nearly as difficult as playing an x or a y.

Nickel backs typically play a little bit off, so there isn't nearly the importance of getting off bumps. That's why slot receivers tend to be smaller. And a lot of them will line up based on mismatches. There's something to be said for a guy in your backfield who can motion to a slot, based on the matchup.

The Chiefs say he'll be a receiver, but I'd be shocked if that was the case. It's hard to put a label on it. He's going to be on the field quite a bit and he's going to play whatever position on the field Weis thinks is appropriate for a given situation.

We should just back down, praise every move Pioli makes, no matter how foolish, and just accept the fact that we are going to draft a nickle CB, a KR and a TE every year.

I'm dumbfounded as to how people can defend using high picks on positions we used draft picks on just last year.

Welp, if I've learned anything from day 2 its that a 2nd round pick doesn't have the same expectations associated with it that it used to.

because people want Cassel to have to throw the ball 50 yards so we can laugh at him

thats what i heard also

He would have been a sweet fit with Philly. I'm glad we got him instead.

lol

I take it you guys aren't too pleased with your "franchise" quarterback.

I think people are overreacting because they hear he's going to be moved to receiver.

I'm sure with Thomas Jones, he's "moving to receiver" in the short-term while Jones/Charles split carries. I'm sure in the long-term, the vision is an LT/Sproles tandem, which I'm fine with.

I imagine he'll play a lot more slot this season than he's used to. But in the end, guarantee that in 2-3 years especially after they bulk him up a bit, he's basically a second back for Charles.

The draft doesn't matter...how well the team plays doesn't matter.

It is just information for people to adjust too. People are locked in, and that is ok.

All we heard was how Pioli would be to ****ing stupid...didn't know about value...and would go with the safe pick and not big a real game changer like Claus or Berry.

Meanwhile the ND pick just tumbles. Tumbles into ****ing oblivion. 32 teams pass him AT LEAST once. At least 8 with pressing QB needs passed him at least once. His own coach passed him twice.

Then...Pioli drafts Berry.

We got one of the guys you wanted and the whole NFL made your need to get him at 6 look clownish.

You guys would have picked him at 6.

Yet everyone else is always reeruned...I think this is all hilarious. I have enjoyed this process today.

Meanwhile it is obvious it doesn't actually matter what happens, it is just information to adjust too...we get one of the guys you folks wanted and this is the thread that gets made.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227147

He was too stupid to pick Berry and now the FG posts move.

Just a small example. Maybe...just maybe things are not as good as you think they are or as bad as you think they are.

I know how dare we expect more than 1 good pick.

Your quotation marks are the key to that post. That's one of the reasons a lot of people were pissed about the McCluster pick. They felt a franchise qb was ripe for the picking with a very good risk vs. reward factor.

Most chiefs fans can't fathom getting the first downs required to show that many formations on the field....
He'll be lined up all over the field this season.

Hi, I'm Brad.

I've never agreed with you on...well....anything...but it looks like we'll be in the same corner for a while so...

I like mostly green in my landscape with some purple and dark reds mixed in. I'm a huge believer in neutral colors and earth tones in most of the common rooms in a house. I'm also not big on sour cream. Hate it. Makes my stomach icky after a case of beer...

Flowers is 5'9

Brandon Flowers | #24 | CB
Kansas City Chiefs | Official Team Site

Height: 5-9 Weight: 187 Age: 24
Born: 2/18/1986 Delray Beach , FL
College: Virginia Tech
Experience: 3rd season
High School: Atlantic HS [Delray Beach, FL]; Hargrave Mil. Acad. [Chatham, VA]


Flowers may have been rated higher but he wasn't a returner.


All I'm saying is that it's difficult for me to find fault in Pioli choosing playmakers this year.

Are you really overvaluing him because he's a returner?

Uh......

Clausen was sitting right there, no doubt.

I know that if the Saints spent the kind of money y'all did on a guy who had ONE good year, I'd be in charge of the lynch mob headed toward to the dome.

Berry is 1 pick.


Can we not expect more? The point of this isn't to suck off pioli, it's to build a winning football team. You seem to only care about the former.


And why do you care what we think?

I've never seen you actually express an opinion on anything other than how awesome you think you are.

When? In 2010? Big ****ing deal.

If this team had taken your Pioli projection of McClain, they'd be ****ed at safety.

If they took Berry but not an OLB, they'd be ****ed.

Face it: This team is a LONG way from filling all its holes and no matter who they chose, there are still going to be problems elsewhere.

That's how he always posts, he's above it, he is awesome and we suck.

I'll give you that the draft wasn't nearly as bad as last year. I just think we dropped the ball on some guys that are going to be good, and would've immediately started for us in more than just nickel situations.

And McCluster could easily return the ball. Same with Charles. Sean Lee would've been a GREAT choice at 50 IMO.

I am glad he's going after playmakers. Genuinely. I just really wish he would've gotten one guy, just one guy at one of the core positions that desperately need help. I'll never forget what Jerome Harrison did to us.

Its not even about good players, because I think Weiss is smart enough to get production out of McCluster. Its about the [former, apparently] expectations that a 2nd round pick be a front-line starting caliber player at a position of importance.

With this draft it has become permissible for 2nd rounders to be WR3s and nickle CBs, eschewing those expectations of front-line starting material.

They'd be a bit closer if they knew the difference in core player and complimentary player.

How awesome I think I am?

For you to actually take that from my posts says a lot more about you than me.

I don't think I am awesome I just don't see the world in black and white. Nothing is in black and white. To throw all these absolutes into something that has so many variables...many of which we don't know about makes smart people say the wackiest stuff.

There is no problem then expecting more than 1 pick. My point is that to think at this point that is all you have just seems foolish.

I painted a picture of the mob mentality all believing something that turned out to be a sham. Why should we continue to be berated for not believing the house is on fire?

When in the history of the Chiefs has anyone had any expectations?

Round Two has historically been their Achille's Heel.

I was told that insults only hurt if there's some truth to them...

not all problems are the same

a problem at nickel corner is not near as important as a problem at NT

and nickle cbs are easier to find than NTs

when you have 2 nts sitting in your lap in the 2nd round of a strong draft you don't draft a nickle cb (who was a reach anyways)

these decisions haunt us....

this thread is picking up.

Imagine how better received this day 2 would be if Arenas were replaced with a guy like [insert list of like 15 better picks here], a better pick from both BPA and need standpoints and if the trade up for a TE never happened, leaving tomorrow with an opportunity to nab a TE still (from a deeeep TE class) and address LB.

93.

The one and only year Carl delivered and gave us a SB competitive team.

And that is sad.

It is sad both in how long it's been and sad in the fact that we've been unable to replicate it...

Sean Lee would have been a great "choice" IMO, as well.

But with all honesty, I don't know if he'll impact a game like Arenas.

And I say that in total honesty. I just don't know.

But what I DO know is that the Chiefs need instinctive defensive backs and guys that can return the football.

Time will tell which was the "right" choice but I can't complain today.

That's not an argument, Dane. Its a non-sequitor. Besides, the Chiefs sucked at round 2 under Carl because of his propensity to reach during it.

Dane thinks Arenas is going to run back 20 kicks for TD's, either that or you mean impact the game by getting beat seeing as he was prominently featured in the other players highlight packages.

Lol bastard

I am inspired by your positive attitude. I didn't expect it. Time will tell is the best way to put it.

I've been more concerned with the offense all along.

Defensively, there's a lot of talent on the line, although they're young and were, I believe, poorly coached. I think the makings are there for a tremendous secondary. What I have the most question about right now is linebacker. I'm curious to see how that plays out. But that's never, to me, been a position that absolutely, positively has to be filled out in the draft, much less the first three rounds of the draft. But I really don't think the defense is more than a piece or two away.

On offense - and I've said this a few times in the last 4 months - I thought the unit last year was the worst offense I've seen, personnel-wise. Branden Albert was, at the time, the only talent on the line. Our starters at WR and TE for much of last year were players we picked off of waivers during the season. I'm actually embarrassed by that, to a degree - that's a bag over my head kind of thing. Charles was great at RB for half a season, basically the only sign of hope that I saw, but there are I think valid concerns about his health and ability to shoulder the load.

They've basically rebuilt the interior line now, with vets and last evening's pick and I think there may be real competition for the starting guard and center positions now. I still wonder about RT... I believe Jones was a wise acquisition at RB. If McCluster is, in fact, able to successfully execute a Welker-esque role in Weis' offense, he'll be a huge part of the offense going forward. I think Chambers is a quality number 2, the question now is whether Dwayne Bowe is ready and able to take a step forward and become a real, consistent threat. This is a huge season for him. TEs? **** if I know. I think that position's going to be a work in progress, although the general (national) consensus on Moeaki is that he could be a stud if he can find a way to stay on the field.

The real problem I see now is Cassel. I didn't want them to trade for him last year, and I don't see much reason to hope he'll suddenly turn into an all-pro, even after what I see as a very real influx in talent. But, at the same time, I'm not sure that our failure to draft Clausen (or McCoy) really was a statement about Cassel. It may well have been a statement about them, and the kind of future and potential the front office foresaw.

Anyway, this post has turned into something I didn't expect, sort of a laundry list of the moves they've made. I think maybe, now that I look at everything together, they've done more to transition from 2009 to 2010 than I'd realized. I think maybe I tend to forget about just how many young, key players there really are, and not just on the defensive line. There may even be some candidates already on the roster for the OLB position opposite Hali.

I said earlier (was that in this thread or another) that maybe it's hard for us to look at all this objectively, because we're so close to it....

You can't say that with absolute certainty.

At least this year, they took playmakers.

We'll see how it pays off in 2010 and beyond.

Speak for yourself. Franchise QB my ass. It was simply an unnecessary pick, especially when one looks at the roster and the needs the team had with the players available in the draft.

Quarterback was the least of the worries at that point. So was slot receiver, especially after signing Urban.

I understand that the kid is dynamic, presents an "uncatchable" force on the outside in a multi-receiver/back set, but for Christ's sake, how about getting a situation established where the core of the team, offense or defense is established before we start picking toys that we play with 15% of the time at max in a game. ****!

If we want to take a ****ing receiver at that point, how about Damian Williams, who is also a solid return guy, and at 6'1", 200 lbs., he's also a sure handed, legit #2 receiver. ****!

Just for the sake of your case, can you post the highlight videos that you're referring too so we can all see what the fuss is about?

I like how two years in a row they have totally went against the draft board. Not to mention the franchise crippling trade last year for that worthless dog shit Cassel.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.

For someone who repeatedly states that they don't drink or do drugs, you often post like someone who's jacked out of their mind.

Considering how often Defenses are having to play in the nickel package now a days, I'd say a problem at nickel corner is a big deal. I guess some of you must of forgot of a certain nickel that gave Smiles Austin a career game.

41 times a day.

Jesus ****ing christ.

If you watched ESPN's draft coverage Arenas was prominently featured in both McCluster and Shipley's highlight vids getting his ass beat.

Quality post. Agree on most all parts

edit: keg

Just my luck that I wasn't in town yet, to see a hall-of-fame quarterback overcome the shortcomings of a conservative coach. I've had a wonderful decade of Gunther and Grbac, Vermeil and Robinson, Vermeil and Gunther, Herm and Gunther. Carl finally leaves and I get Haley (who I like) and Cassel (who I don't).

I don't have a Montana to look back upon.

i absolutely can, we've been making them for years....no clue about value and which positions matter and which don't

LMAO You weren't included in my "people."

So how exactly does a 3rd CB have a huge impact on a game then?

They don't go against their own draft board, though. Its just that Pioli's draft board doesn't seem to take into account value of any kind. Pioli identifies players that he likes and he gets those players. If it means taking a nickle/dime CB/return man in the second round then so be it. Its a strategy that is abhorrent to me but that's his thing.

95 and 97 teams were way more talented than the 93 team but Montana was the reason for the success. It was a fun ride that year.

McCluster Pwned a lot of guys including our own Eric Berry. But I didn't see a couple of highlight reels on ESPN.

Ask this question to Miles Austin and Maurice Leggett.

Thats why I would rather had somebody from the Ravens organization.

Jake Locker will be better then any qb in this years draft

To bad the Chiefs won't even look his way :((((((((

You mean Mike Brown on that case. Leggett went for a pick, Brown missed the tackle.

Uh that's Mike Brown, I like how the wrong guy constantly gets blamed around here.

He's not just a 3rd CB, he's the nation's best return man. That actually has value.

And you are going to tell us that having a very good 3rd QB wouldn't have made a difference against Dallas or Denver? Or hell, any other team?

Ask Rex Ryan about having three quality CB's and get back to us.

Yeah and he ****ing missed. Mike Brown held a gun to his head and said, "whiff on the INT or I will blow your brains out."

I'm sure a 4.5+ guy at 5'8" will solve all that...

Arenas was a pick that confused me, but the Chiefs do need a Nickel Back. And if he plays well in that role, it's important enough to justify the pick. This is definitely a "we'll see" pick.

I don't really understand the disgust over the McCluster or Moeaki picks. Anyone who's disgusted about these picks needs to read up on Weis' offense. Weis doesn't give a shit about stud receivers or running backs. His entire offense revolves around versatility and deception. I'm not saying McCluster is any kind of a given, but I'm more than a little curious to see what kinds of wrinkles Weis uses him in. He could potentially be an absolute matchup nightmare for teams.

No one is going to say that we shouldn't look to improve at nickleback. If you really wanted to improve there then why not take one of the #2 CB prospects available at the time? You can have decent CBs playing nickle in their rookie year; Hell, the Jets drafted Kyle Wilson in the 1st and he'll be playing nickle this year. The problem is that Arenas' ceiling (IMO) is a nickleback.

For 14 years, it's worked for Ronde Barber

So basically a returner is worth a 2 to a team that needs a bunch of starters.

Dane, an honest question:

Who makes more plays, a #2 WR or a slot WR?

A pass rushing OLB, or a nickel corner?

A nose tackle, or a tight end?

wow just cause its not a known name guy for some of you flip if you follow college football you would know who he is,hes a reggie bush type player,and whoever said hes derrick blaylock part 2,lol complete bs he was picked for a slot guy but mostly a returner and pioli and haley are not stupid,maybe you want herm and carl back huh,just cause a guy, some of you want dose not get picked the cry babies come out.be a true fan or stfu,every pick that has been made except for the ol is a playmaker.our team speed is improved,we have more options now.ok u haters crack on me i don`t care/its a fact the team is more improved with these picks,one more thing pioli and haley have done more positive for this team than carl ever did and the idiot who said we can pick better players than pioli or some shit like that dude you have no clue.

Tell me more Miss Cleo. I'm amazed you're already able to come to a conclusion before a player ever takes the field.

From what I've been told, Wilson will most likely start and Cro will be the nickel

Are we back to playing cover 2?

Miles Austin was on BOTH Brown and Leggett. You can't sit back and just say "well since Leggett went for the INT it's Brown's job to clean up if he misses." No. Bullshit. Leggett ****ed up. Brown ****ed up. They both ****ing suck ass! What do we do? We draft Eric Berry and Javier Arenas. So **** that shit.

I doubt they'll be in a position to look his way, although with enough quality quarterbacks, there's a chance they'll be able to get one in what will likely be the middle of the round.

Cassel is completely expendable after 2010, as far as his contract goes. And maybe I'm alone in this, but I don't think they'll have any problem cutting ties if 2010 looks like 2009. I think Pioli's desire to win is greater than whatever supposed ego-driven desire he may have to prove to the world that Cassel was the right guy. I just don't think he's going to go down with that particular ship. If it doesn't work, I think we'll see a new "the guy" in 2011.

^^^^^

They're still get get passed on, having no pass rush does that.

so the problems, in order of priority go like this?

1. midget nickel corner (a 4th in 09, a 2nd in '10)
2. injury prone TE (a 3rd in 08, a 7th 09, a 4th and 5th in '10)
3. HB slot reciever (#36 in '10)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
45. NT (no picks)
46. OLB (no picks)
47. ILB (no picks)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
134. Franchise QB (nothing)

and we're to pretend there are no long term consequences for this?

If Arenas can effectively take care of our problems in the nickel, which were huge, and give us a solid return guy as well, then fine. I don't mind that pick. I think he would have been there in the fourth, but whatever.

And I understand that McCluster was a second/third round pick by everyone's estimation. The guy is dynamic, tore up the Senior Bowl and by playing in the SEC, showed that he can play with the big boys at his size.

However, both picks are luxuries that I don't think the Chiefs could have afforded at that point. If they were the Vikings (which ****ing killed it by picking Gerhart) or the Saints or Colts or the like, where you don't have many holes and can pick those luxury players at luxury positions (slot, nickel, returner), then that's fine. However, the Chiefs have a lot of problems in terms of core positions that needed to be addressed, such as RT, NT, C, LB, WR.

And to trade up for Moeaki when Pitta and Hernandez and McCoy (and Moeaki himself) were likely to be there in the fourth round (along with several legit nose tackles), is completely asinine.

If Denver ends up with Cam Thomas or Torrell Troup or Dennis Pitta or Aaron Hernandez in the fourth, which they most likely will, it's going to suck balls.

Here's the thing:

If you want to take someone to be a nightmare in the slot, why not take Golden Tate, who is not only bigger, but faster, with good hands, who is intimately familiar with the offense?

If you want to take a nickelback, why not take Brandon Ghee, who has the tools to eventually be a #2 or even #1 CB?

If you want a tight end, why not take Jimmy Graham, who has the tools to be one of the best players in the game?

Not only did they take players at relatively unimportant positions (relative to both the value on the board and team impact), they universally took the inferior prospects.

I'm not sure "slot WR" is the right way to term it, if they're really looking to make him the Chiefs version of Wesley Welker (Chris Mortensen's words, not mine...). The guy has 346 catches the last 3 years.

If that's what they're shooting for, I'd call it pretty valuable.

Dude, there is no way you can watch the guy play and actually believe he runs at that speed. He was outrunning secondaries.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...-40-times.html
Even if for some weird reason, you actually believe he's that slow, he did dominate the short shuttle run. Was the best in the RB class.

If he turns out to be Darren Sproles, I'm okay with that.

Interesting. Thanks.
I think my point still stand without the Jets example.