Another thing to consider is who has done more with greater restrictions. Almost all of the greats accomplished what they did with no salary cap or free agency to hinder team growth/development.

We talk about keeping Sneed/Jones etc while having a QB on a top of the market contract for a reason. We talk about Cincinnati being able to field a solid roster as there is not enough money to pay all their stars. Or how Buffalo is going to be in a cap nightmare next year. These are restrictions all the old coaches that were viewed as the greatest never had to deal with.

Were those coaches innovative? Yes? Were they influential? Yes. Do some of them have impressive coaching trees? Yes. But would we still think the same of Walsh if he had to win while trying to juggle a roster where Montana, Rice, Lott etc were commanding top of the league salaries while staying under the cap? Had Free Agency been a thing would he even been able to keep all of that talent? What about Noll and the Steelers?

I know I mentioned it before, but FA and the salary cap have done more to change the dynamic of the NFL more than pretty much anything over the last 50+ years. That has to be taken into account when judging who is the best regardless of era. Those are definitive limitations on building and sustaining a dynasty which is necessary when determining the best HC of all time.

and furthermore-

IT'S HIS BAG.

It's not like Chuck Noll and his guys all got old and too beat up to go anymore.

Belichick's ego is his downfall.

Compare if you will, and JUST want to talk about coaching-

Joe Gibbs (who was a Don Coryell protege, so an OFFENSIVE COACH) won 3 Super Bowls in 9 years with 3 different QB's, none of which qualify as elite, and two were actually bums before and after. Theismann is just remembered for that totally gross broken leg. Which was basically the harbinger of the rise of Parcells.

Now THAT is coaching.

Meanwhile, without the GOAT, Belichick is below .500 over TEN SEASONS.

there's just no getting around that.

Well, this is all opinion so I understand your argument.

I just think once you win 6 SB's the fact BB ended up getting overwhelmed as the GM without Brady doesn't do that much damage for me.

What it says is BB might not be the greatest builder or QB coach.

Here is another thought exercise. What if Brady AND Belichick both got to be Free Agents a few years ago and flee the crumbled NE dynasty ruins?

If BB just picked a team loaded with good talent and a top young QB do you honestly think he would have a losing record?

Well, we might find out.

But if he's as smart as he's supposed to be, he'll hire a Brett Veach type to run his drafts.

Tom Landry

Ed O'Neill

Curious why you think it would take 2 more rings for you? We've already established his impact on the modern game, his coaching tree, his coaching wins leader for two separate NFL teams, and a 3rd ring ties him with Walsh.

What gives?

I remember having some talks with Patriots fans about football when I first moved here. I was saying something like "well that's the first thing you need, a franchise QB like Tom Brady" and they responded with "Tom Brady is a product of the genius that is Bill Belichick, we literally won 11 games with Matt Cassel and that's proof"

Well, the team Walsh basically built won two after he burned out and left. So his team, with his offense, won 5.

Noll won 4 in 6 years and while nobody wants to call him the greatest, it's the greatest 6 year run in NFL history.

I count Andy as one of the greatest ever, and the greatest currently coaching, but I figure 4 rings secures him, in my mind.

well, that argument aged well.

Bill won 11 games with Cassel and the same guys that went 18-1 the year before.

And Haley won 10 games with Cassel, and we know how Haley turned out.

So nah, that doesn't wash for me.

somehow Cassel was a competent QB for 2 seasons I guess

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, prime Dwayne Bowe, and Tony Gonzales.

with enough talent around him he appeared competent for 2 seasons

Most people don’t even know that Lombardi coached the Washington Redskins for one year only, the 1969 season (Lombardi passed away in 1970), and led the Redskins to their 1st winning season in 14 years. He definitely deserves to be on your list.

I had forgotten that! I seem to vaguely remember reading that somewhere.

I guess technically the league hadn't merged yet, but his Packers (and they were getting long in the tooth) still won two SB's.

I just figure the SB era is the best cut-off point.