[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Lewis was a CB, so you're incorrect in that comparison.

Let's imagine 2016, without $12 million or whatever it was going to Berry, or his huge contract extension last year, which averages $13 million, in which the Chiefs essentially won 10 games without him.

Do you really believe that the Chiefs wouldn't have won 12 in 2016 and 10 in 2017 had they put that $25 million (or whatever the number) into the D line, WR corp or secondary?

If so, how can you say that with a straight face?

I just had some fun with the search function. Youre right: you didnt compare Berry to Lewis that I could find, though you have mentioned Lewis a few times.

Anyway, you were definitely on the "Berry is way overrated" train. Sorry for the mishmash quotes. They were just all pretty good discussions. It's funny to re-read them.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He did not play at an All Pro level.

3.5 tackles a game and 2 Int's in 16 games aren't stellar numbers.

It was an honorary nod due to the cancer.

Originally Posted by BossChief

3 forced fumbles and 8 picks for a 5 year vet.

Let's be objective here.

The guy hasn't lived up to expectations.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

We've been over this too many times.

I've compared him to Earl Thomas, which is pretty dumb considering the stark contrast in the way the two are used. ET averaged something like 1.2 INT more PER SEASON than EB. Meanwhile, Berry is far more productive making plays behind the LOS in sacks and TFLs, plus he has 3 TDs in his career. That's making a hell of an impact.

I remember comparing stats for Kam Chancellor and TJ Ward as well, which makes way more sense given position and scheme and Berry has a better stat sheet than either.

Your argument of him not impacting W/L record is so paper thin it's incredible. You could literally make the same argument for DJ or Flowers. This is a team sport and each guy contributes.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

He has been a top tier safety as well.

He's been voted as such by fans (who are idiots, I know), his peers, and coaches in the league.

He's been awarded All-Pro status.

Any "top safety" rankings prior to this season would have included EB in the top 5 at the very least.

That's elite, brother.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Five sacks in five years is hardly game changing. As I pointed out earlier, he has 11 less INT's than Deron Cherry's first five years in the league.

The mere fact that the pass defense was rated #1 in the league without him means that his $8.3 million dollar salary can be better utilized on a different position.

He's not irreplaceable.

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Going into this year his overall numbers in the secondary were comparable to Barry Church..

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

That's cool. Except Barry Church blows cocks and Berry doesn't..

A defender can make a hell of an impact without filling up the stat sheet. It's pretty simple for a QB to simply throw the ball away from a guy if he's doing his job.

Comparing Berry to Romey Woods. This one hurt!

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Eric Berry is more Jerome Woods than Deron Cherry.

I'll never understand the fascination with the guy.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He's overrated, period, especially by ChiefsPlanet.

Take a look at Deron Cherry's numbers. He destroys Berry and it isn't even close.

Again, he's more Jerome Woods, who was also a first rounder and Pro Bowler, than Cherry.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Earl Thomas is a better safety than Woods and if the Chiefs could re-draft, I'd bet they'd take Thomas over Berry.



Pro Bowls are popularity contests. Deron Cherry was a complete player and a game changer. How many games have you watched in which Berry changed the outcome of the game?

Furthermore, the Chiefs just had their best season against the pass in two decades, yet Berry was mostly invisible and outplayed by Ron Parker.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Berry was complete as well. He was one of the best run stopping and pass rushing safeties in the league while also being, as I've highlighted earlier in this thread, very good in coverage. People just remember when he got abused by Gates and some others in his rookie season and latch onto those memories.

For God's sake, we had the guy playing CB in 2013. Dude played LB, FS, SS, and CB. He was a stud.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Alright, I found some stats on the 2013 season. Anyone that remembers that year, we damn near had Berry cover the other team's TE exclusively. Here are some of the big names and numbers they put up with Berry blanketing them:

Jason Witten: 8 targets 3 catches 12 yards 0 TDs

Brent Celek/Zach Ertz: 5 targets 2 catches 18 yards 0 TDs/1 target 1 catch 5 yards 0 TDs

Delanie Walker: 6 targets 4 catches 43 yards 0 TDs

Jordan Cameron: 4 targets 4 catches 81 yards

Scott Chandler: 9 targets 3 catches 26 yards 0 TDs

Julius Thomas: 5 targets 3 catches 43 yards 1 TD

Antonio Gates: 8 targets 3 catches 21 yards 0 TDs

Coby Fleener: 3 targets 2 catches 8 yards 0 TDs

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Bro, check those stats I just posted.

He basically took every TE we faced off the field. He changed the complexion of those games without it showing up on his stat sheet. Not to mention the fact that he did that while adding 2 INT return TDs and 3.5 sacks. He changed a hell of a lot in games.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You've got to stop looking at the box scores for player contributions.

Harrison Smith, Kam Chancellor and Devin McCourty are three of the best safeties in the league. They combined for 4 INTs all of last season.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's about impact, not "box scores".

As I mentioned earlier, Deron Cherry had 40 INT's his first six seasons.

Berry has 10.

Who made a bigger impact on the field?

Furthermore, if I have to choose between a stout, man-to-man CB, an above average (hovering near elite) DT or a Safety, Safety is third on the list.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm with you. $11 million dollars for a safety that rarely intercepts the ball or makes game changing plays is a waste of cap space.

I know it would be extremely unpopular with the fans but I'd let him play out the Franchise Tag and draft his replacement in 2017.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

We've lined this guy up at SS, FS, CB, and LB- he's played well at each and every position- and somehow he just isn't good enough. Receives first-team All-Pro honors at SS and FS- he's no Ed Reed! For God's sake, one poster was talking about lining him up at LOLB to replace Houston down the stretch!

The concerns about a lack of INTs are overblown. Taking a look at the careers of each of the top safeties in the league today, none of them fare particularly well against Berry in that regard. Throwing out any season in which the player didn't play at least 10 games in a season, Earl Thomas averages 3.5 INTs a season. Kam Chancellor averages 1.7 INTs per season. Harrison Smith averages 3.3 INTs per season. Reshad Jones averages 2.5 INTs per season. Tyrann Mathieu and Devin Mccourty (who both play a shit ton of CB and are really not a good comparison) average 2.7 and 3 INTs per season respectively.

Eric Berry averages 2.5 INTs per season. What's the difference?

Just say putting $10+m into a safety position isn't the best use of resources, because trying to argue against the guy's ability is just asinine.