Quote:
Originally Posted by scho63
If the Cowboys were smart, they would fire McCarthy and put Tomlin there.
They would be scary with his defensive intensity and I think he would get much more from Dak.
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McCarthy is underrated. People act like Payton is a guru and McCarthy is a dolt but the truth is different.
I*used scoring offense as the metric.
(#1 finishes in bold)
Payton:
Top 5: (2006,*2008, 2009,*2011, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020)
Top 10: (2013, 2014, 2015)
Top 15: (2007, 2010)
Top 20: (2021)
Fun fact: Saints finished 3rd in offense in 2012: the year Payton was suspended for BountyGate
2019: Brees missed 5 games with injury
2020: Brees missed 4 games with injury
2021: Only year without Brees. (Winston 5-2, Hill 4-1, Book 0-1, Siemian 0-4). Defense was #4 in points by the way. Allen!
McCarthy
Top 5: (2007, 2008,*2009,*2011,*2012,*2014,*2016, 2021)
Top 10: (2010, 2013)
Top 15: (2015, 2018)
Top 20: (2020)
Top 25: (2006, 2017)
2006: First year with Favre. The duo famously dueled. Much improved as the season continued.
2013: Rodgers missed 7 starts. (Flynn 2-2, Tolzien 0-1-1, Wallace 0-1). Offense still finished top 10.
2017: Rodgers missed 9 starts. (Hundley 3-6). He was bad. Posting a 9-12 TD-INT ratio.
2018: McCarthy was fired at 4-7-1. Team averaged 23.4 PPG with him. Without him: 23.75 PPG.
2020: Dak missed 11 starts. (Dalton: 4-5, DiNucci 0-1, Raiders Offseason Legend Garrett Gilbert 0-1). Scored 30+ points four times with Dak before the injury. Did it four times afterwards. But had games of 10, 3, and 9 that killed it.
Looks like both coaches*generally induced good results from their talent. McCarthy had the edge in #1 offenses. But Payton has less dud years. Of course, how many offensive gurus are blitzing the league with Tolzien, Flynn, DiNucci, and Hundley? McCarthy has some rough*stretches without Rodgers but Payton plummeted to #19 without Brees.
consider*this:
Winning percentage (regular season)
Payton is at 63% (152-89)
McCarthy is 60.9% (143-89-2)
Playoffs
Payton: 52.9% (9-8)
McCarthy: 52.6 (10-9)
Both have one Super Bowl as head coach
Playoff rate
Payton: 9/15 years
McCarthy: 10/15 years (And McCarthy only missed the playoffs twice with a full year of*Rodgers: 2008 (Rodgers' first year as starter) and 2018.)
Payton missed the playoffs with a full year of Brees a whopping 5 times!
Payton is widely hailed and respected. McCarthy is reviled and mocked. Both had HOF QBs. Both HOF QBs weren't at their peak before both coaches arrived. Rodgers was a second year player on the bench and with McCarthy's help completely reworked his mechanics. Brees was coming off a shoulder injury that scared off most teams. Payton isn't criticized for only winning one SB with Brees. Even though, for a decent chunk of time, Brees had marvelous years wasted by 31st and 32nd ranked defenses. That falls under the head coach.
McCarthy is lambasted for only winning one SB with Rodgers. Yes, he made an error or two in the postseason but so has the golden boy Rodgers. But only McCarthy received blame for those postseason failures.
Payton is considered a sure fire HOF coach. Say the same thing about McCarthy and people laugh. But their resumes are similar. And McCarthy despite the playoff losses, at least, made it more often with a HOF QB than Payton did. Payton missed 4 out of 5 years at one point because he couldn't fix a 32nd ranked defense. That is horrible coaching not to find a solution.
At the end of the day, I see two offensive gurus (Dallas' offense has been pretty good. People here are always talking about Dak's stats) who won a Super Bowl, helped with the construction/resurrection of a HOF QB, that ultimately won just one title with said QBs. They should be viewed as similar.
It is the Seifert/Flores argument. Either both go in or neither.
When you miss the playoffs during four prime years of Brees, you deserve some censure. And Payton has largely escaped that censure.