Is it time for Mike Tomlin to step aside?

[scho63]

No doubt Mike Tomlin has been a great coach and got a lot from his teams over the years.

Now with Big Ben gone, a major rebuilding needed should he ride off into the sunset or look to go to a team that may be missing just a piece or two?

I think he could be a better fit now on other teams.

The Cowboys, Broncos and Raiders come to mind.

Am I being foolish?

Pittsburgh has so many holes it could be 3-4 years of subpar football.

What do you say?

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Tomlin made the playoffs last year with the corpse of Big Ben at QB. He's dealt with some of the most toxic personalities in sports in that locker room with Antonio Brown and LeVeon Bell and kept them somewhat under control.

You get him a good OC and a decent QB and he'll win you 10 games every single year. With the way some of these recent coaching hires are looking, the Steelers would be fools to let him go. If he's the one who wants a break and a change of scenery, I would definitely understand that from him end.

He'll have his choice of openings if they do decide to split up.

[FloridaMan88]

Tomlin has built up his “never had a losing season” so called achievement with a bunch of 8-8/9-7 seasons.

[Megatron96]

Not a Tomlin fan, but probably he's got a lot more leash than several other HCs around the league, like Hackett, Eberflus, Klifbar, and Reich.

My guess is that Tomlin could have a losing season and he'd still be safe. In 2023 anyway.

[scho63]

I don't think it will be the Steelers cutting ties, it would be a worn out Tomlin.

[RealSNR]

The organization refuses to make big moves, and Tomlin has been there long enough that he's not going to take risks to put the team over the top.

Maybe they'll continue their never had a losing season streak. Maybe they won't. But I don't see Pickett being the prime Big Rapistberger they'll need to even get back to just being a legit threat to win a playoff game or two each year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

Tomlin made the playoffs last year with the corpse of Big Ben at QB. He's dealt with some of the most toxic personalities in sports in that locker room with Antonio Brown and LeVeon Bell and kept them somewhat under control.

You get him a good OC and a decent QB and he'll win you 10 games every single year. With the way some of these recent coaching hires are looking, the Steelers would be fools to let him go. If he's the one who wants a break and a change of scenery, I would definitely understand that from him end.

He'll have his choice of openings if they do decide to split up.

I'm not too much of a fan of Tomlin. But I generally agree with you except the part about toxic personalities. Why do people think he does a good job? Antonio Brown & Leveon Bell became toxic under his watch. I would assume he was instrumental in bringing guys like George Pickens in. And he did nothing while Juju and Claypool created unnecessary distraction. Meanwhile, there are plenty of rumors that he fed into Ben's stubbornness which led to his refusal to adjust to his game. Either he can't control these toxic personalities or he has terrible judgment.

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'm not too much of a fan of Tomlin. But I generally agree with you except the part about toxic personalities. Why do people think he does a good job? Antonio Brown & Leveon Bell became toxic under his watch. I would assume he was instrumental in bringing guys like George Pickens in. And he did nothing while Juju and Claypool created unnecessary distraction. Meanwhile, there are plenty of rumors that he fed into Ben's stubbornness which led to his refusal to adjust to his game. Either he can't control these toxic personalities or he has terrible judgment.

I suppose that’s all true as well. Much like you I’m not actually a huge fan either, but sustained success like he’s had is hard to ignore in a league like this. Especially when so many teams are floundering in absolute mediocrity. You know Carolina or Detroit would probably pounce on a guy like him if he became available. He at the very least gives your culture some legitimacy.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

I suppose that’s all true as well. Much like you I’m not actually a huge fan either, but sustained success like he’s had is hard to ignore in a league like this. Especially when so many teams are floundering in absolute mediocrity. You know Carolina or Detroit would probably pounce on a guy like him if he became available. He at the very least gives your culture some legitimacy.

I don't think Detroit is going to move on from Campbell, IMHO.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Not a Tomlin fan, but probably he's got a lot more leash than several other HCs around the league, like Hackett, Eberflus, Klifbar, and Reich.

My guess is that Tomlin could have a losing season and he'd still be safe. In 2023 anyway.

While true, Tomlin isn’t drafting either.

[displacedinMN]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Two Super Bowl appearances*

I will never admit the pitt receiver scored a TD vs the cards

[kcclone]

Tomlin is a good coach, but just as Belichick is proving, a good coach can look really bad with a terrible QB situation.

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by Coach

I don't think Detroit is going to move on from Campbell, IMHO.

Well, as of right now he’s 4-17-1 since taking over. I’m not seeing too many more wins on the schedule this year either although they’ve played tough in most of their games. Let’s say they go 3-14 or something, I don’t see how you keep a coach who wins 6 games in 2 years. Although, they are the Lions I suppose.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by scho63

If the Cowboys were smart, they would fire McCarthy and put Tomlin there.

They would be scary with his defensive intensity and I think he would get much more from Dak.

McCarthy is underrated. People act like Payton is a guru and McCarthy is a dolt but the truth is different.

I*used scoring offense as the metric.

(#1 finishes in bold)

Payton:

Top 5: (2006,*2008, 2009,*2011, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020)
Top 10: (2013, 2014, 2015)
Top 15: (2007, 2010)
Top 20: (2021)

Fun fact: Saints finished 3rd in offense in 2012: the year Payton was suspended for BountyGate

2019: Brees missed 5 games with injury
2020: Brees missed 4 games with injury
2021: Only year without Brees. (Winston 5-2, Hill 4-1, Book 0-1, Siemian 0-4). Defense was #4 in points by the way. Allen!

McCarthy

Top 5: (2007, 2008,*2009,*2011,*2012,*2014,*2016, 2021)
Top 10: (2010, 2013)
Top 15: (2015, 2018)
Top 20: (2020)
Top 25: (2006, 2017)

2006: First year with Favre. The duo famously dueled. Much improved as the season continued.

2013: Rodgers missed 7 starts. (Flynn 2-2, Tolzien 0-1-1, Wallace 0-1). Offense still finished top 10.

2017: Rodgers missed 9 starts. (Hundley 3-6). He was bad. Posting a 9-12 TD-INT ratio.

2018: McCarthy was fired at 4-7-1. Team averaged 23.4 PPG with him. Without him: 23.75 PPG.

2020: Dak missed 11 starts. (Dalton: 4-5, DiNucci 0-1, Raiders Offseason Legend Garrett Gilbert 0-1). Scored 30+ points four times with Dak before the injury. Did it four times afterwards. But had games of 10, 3, and 9 that killed it.

Looks like both coaches*generally induced good results from their talent. McCarthy had the edge in #1 offenses. But Payton has less dud years. Of course, how many offensive gurus are blitzing the league with Tolzien, Flynn, DiNucci, and Hundley? McCarthy has some rough*stretches without Rodgers but Payton plummeted to #19 without Brees.

consider*this:

Winning percentage (regular season)

Payton is at 63% (152-89)
McCarthy is 60.9% (143-89-2)

Playoffs

Payton: 52.9% (9-8)
McCarthy: 52.6 (10-9)

Both have one Super Bowl as head coach

Playoff rate

Payton: 9/15 years
McCarthy: 10/15 years (And McCarthy only missed the playoffs twice with a full year of*Rodgers: 2008 (Rodgers' first year as starter) and 2018.)

Payton missed the playoffs with a full year of Brees a whopping 5 times!

Payton is widely hailed and respected. McCarthy is reviled and mocked. Both had HOF QBs. Both HOF QBs weren't at their peak before both coaches arrived. Rodgers was a second year player on the bench and with McCarthy's help completely reworked his mechanics. Brees was coming off a shoulder injury that scared off most teams. Payton isn't criticized for only winning one SB with Brees. Even though, for a decent chunk of time, Brees had marvelous years wasted by 31st and 32nd ranked defenses. That falls under the head coach.

McCarthy is lambasted for only winning one SB with Rodgers. Yes, he made an error or two in the postseason but so has the golden boy Rodgers. But only McCarthy received blame for those postseason failures.

Payton is considered a sure fire HOF coach. Say the same thing about McCarthy and people laugh. But their resumes are similar. And McCarthy despite the playoff losses, at least, made it more often with a HOF QB than Payton did. Payton missed 4 out of 5 years at one point because he couldn't fix a 32nd ranked defense. That is horrible coaching not to find a solution.

At the end of the day, I see two offensive gurus (Dallas' offense has been pretty good. People here are always talking about Dak's stats) who won a Super Bowl, helped with the construction/resurrection of a HOF QB, that ultimately won just one title with said QBs. They should be viewed as similar.

It is the Seifert/Flores argument. Either both go in or neither.

When you miss the playoffs during four prime years of Brees, you deserve some censure. And Payton has largely escaped that censure.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

Well, as of right now he’s 4-17-1 since taking over. I’m not seeing too many more wins on the schedule this year either although they’ve played tough in most of their games. Let’s say they go 3-14 or something, I don’t see how you keep a coach who wins 6 games in 2 years. Although, they are the Lions I suppose.

It's more so of repairing the culture which was badly needed in Detroit when Campbell arrived. Their roster was completely gutted a year ago, and Detroit has made a very clear effort to fill those spots with young, developmental pieces who are still learning through mistakes.

I should note that their offense is pretty good. They are 8th in the NFL on Rushing Yards per game, 7th in the NFL on Passing Yards per game, and 3rd in the NFL at Points per game. At this stage, they are still investing in developing their youth and they're trying to weather the injury storms.

Their biggest issue is their defense as they're giving up 34 points per game. That is last in the NFL. If they have a middle of the pack scoring defense, their record would have been better than 1-4.

I think Detroit will finish with 6 wins.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

Well, as of right now he’s 4-17-1 since taking over. I’m not seeing too many more wins on the schedule this year either although they’ve played tough in most of their games. Let’s say they go 3-14 or something, I don’t see how you keep a coach who wins 6 games in 2 years. Although, they are the Lions I suppose.

Originally Posted by Coach

It's more so of repairing the culture which was badly needed in Detroit when Campbell arrived. Their roster was completely gutted a year ago, and Detroit has made a very clear effort to fill those spots with young, developmental pieces who are still learning through mistakes.

I should note that their offense is pretty good. They are 8th in the NFL on Rushing Yards per game, 7th in the NFL on Passing Yards per game, and 3rd in the NFL at Points per game. At this stage, they are still investing in developing their youth and they're trying to weather the injury storms.

Their biggest issue is their defense as they're giving up 34 points per game. That is last in the NFL. If they have a middle of the pack scoring defense, their record would have been better than 1-4.

I think Detroit will finish with 6 wins.

And just like that @Wisconsin_Chief, Lions has hit the 6-win barrier. I had them going 6, so at least I got that nailed, with 4 games left to play.