KC defense ready to ice vanilla look - Page 5

Mr. Laz · 08-22-2006, 09:59 AM

KC defense ready to ice vanilla look

Chiefs don’t want to show too much but say they must improve.

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Notes: No sign of Holmes

Herm Edwards wants to see the Chiefs play defense with a lot more fire than they showed in last week’s loss to the Giants.

One way to get that fire is to turn up the heat. Edwards hinted that the Chiefs, after playing mostly plain, basic defenses in their first two preseason games, might do just that in Saturday night’s game against St. Louis at Arrowhead Stadium.

“We’ll just see,” Edwards said. “Let’s wait until Saturday and see what we do.”

Edwards is conflicted about the defense, which has been a pushover in two games. The Chiefs have yielded a ton of rushing yards and have made no momentum-generating big plays.

The Chiefs haven’t forced a turnover and have just three sacks.

Edwards wants better. He also wants to keep the defenses as plain as possible to reveal as little as possible about their regular-season plans.

Something has to give, and it might be the need to hide their plans.

“This is the third game, so you might see a little bit different,” linebacker Derrick Johnson said. “Whatever we’re going to do, this is the game to do it. We won’t be as vanilla.”

Vanilla isn’t the normal way of defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham. Blitzing and getting pressure on the quarterback are his favorite tactics, so sitting by idly while opponents take advantage of the Chiefs has to be killing him.

“A little bit,” Edwards said. “You want to work on fundamentals, but you’re right, we’re playing it real vanilla. People know what we’re doing. They can sit there and game-plan for us all they want because they know what kind of coverage we’re going to run.

“We’re trying to implement some things and see if players can play them. That’s very, very important. Believe me, Gunther has a bag of blitzes. We can blitz. We know how to do that. We can put pressure on the quarterback if we need to do that. But we want to get some basic defenses down first. We need to get some principles down. That’s important.”

The Chiefs worked in training camp on some exotic defensive tactics but used precious few in the exhibition losses to Houston and the Giants.

“I believe the coaches are doing the right thing right now in keeping it vanilla,” Johnson said. “They’re making sure we’ve got our base defense down. We can come with the blitzes. You know Gun. He can fire off some stuff. We know his mentality. Right now, he’s probably biting his tongue sometimes. But we’ve got those plays. We’re going to get to that.

“When you play like we’ve been playing and when teams know what you’re going to do, they’re going to get some stuff on you. That’s OK. The coaches know what they’re doing. We’re buying in.”

Safety Sammy Knight agreed.

“What we’re doing is fine,” Knight said. “We’ve just got to play better. It starts by playing with more emotion. If you do that, the plays will come no matter what we’re doing on defense.”

Despite some otherwise gloomy defensive statistics, Edwards sees one positive in the pass defense. The Chiefs have not yielded a throw of more than 15 yards despite defending 59 passes and allowing 38 completions.

“We’re getting them to throw the ball where they don’t want to throw it,” Edwards said.

As far as the largely punchless pass rush, the Chiefs are counting on the return from injury of first-round draft pick Tamba Hali to help. He will start against the Rams.

Edwards indicated he believes the Chiefs are talented enough to play good defense.

“We’ve got it,” Edwards said. “We just have to get on the same page. That’s all. That’s tough. We haven’t revamped everything, but we’re asking them to do some things differently. We’re playing a coverage that’s very disciplined coverage, a very physical coverage. They’re starting to understand that. There are some things we’re going to do to help them. We’re not going to just stay in this coverage.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To reach Adam Teicher, Chiefs reporter for The Star, call (816) 234-4875 or send e-mail to [email protected]

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2006, 11:40 AM

The two big plays we've allowed this preseason were a 25-yard run and a 20-yard reverse.

I guess this means our run D is going to suck!

Hog's Gone Fishin · 08-22-2006, 11:44 AM

You guys have to realize, Scanlon has only been in on a limited number of plays, he's being held back until the season starts.

Chief Henry · 08-22-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

I'm getting tired of this "vanilla scheme" excuse. The problem isn't scheme, it's personnel. Our DL is crap. Until we get a legit starting DT or two, the D will be inept.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

jspchief · 08-22-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Edwards wants better. He also wants to keep the defenses as plain as possible to reveal as little as possible about their regular-season plans.

Here's my problem with "vanilla". Teicher claims that Herm doesn't want to reveal things for the regular season. Why not? After the first game, everyone is going to have film on us anyway. How many games do we really expect to win based off of surprise rather than execution?

I don't know if what we are doing is vanilla or not. It appears to be to me, but it's hard to compare against a scheme we've yet to run in the regular season.

But if the coaches really are keeping it vanilla, I have to wonder why. I would think practicing it so that the execution is there would be more important than surprising teams with plays that we can't properly execute.

I don't expect them to display the entire playbook. But it's not like teams haven't seen the Cover 2 before. Run the dman scheme liek you're going to run it in the regular season. Let these guys get the experience and confidence to play this game right when it counts.

CoMoChief · 08-22-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

The two big plays we've allowed this preseason were a 25-yard run and a 20-yard reverse.

I guess this means our run D is going to suck!

I will still continue to think our defense sucks until I am shown otherwise. We may not give up big plays, but we constantly get punched with 8 yards here and 9 yards there. Theres no reason for huge plays when the opposing offense is facing 2nd and short all game long. We'll never win a game if thats the case. Why do you think the defense is out on the field for too long???

htismaqe · 08-22-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Here's my problem with "vanilla". Teicher claims that Herm doesn't want to reveal things for the regular season. Why not? After the first game, everyone is going to have film on us anyway. How many games do we really expect to win based off of surprise rather than execution?

I don't know if what we are doing is vanilla or not. It appears to be to me, but it's hard to compare against a scheme we've yet to run in the regular season.

But if the coaches really are keeping it vanilla, I have to wonder why. I would think practicing it so that the execution is there would be more important than surprising teams with plays that we can't properly execute.

I don't expect them to display the entire playbook. But it's not like teams haven't seen the Cover 2 before. Run the dman scheme liek you're going to run it in the regular season. Let these guys get the experience and confidence to play this game right when it counts.

Great post.

Chiefnj · 08-22-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

I don't expect them to display the entire playbook. But it's not like teams haven't seen the Cover 2 before. Run the dman scheme liek you're going to run it in the regular season. Let these guys get the experience and confidence to play this game right when it counts.

Even the commentators noted how far Law was playing off the ball in a short yardage situation that led to an easy conversion. Even if they wanted to play basic vanilla D, why not bump the guy at the line? What's the point putting the corner 7 yards off the ball on 3rd and 3 and giving the Giants an easy first down? Who on the defense benefits from that?

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2006, 04:34 PM

That's a very good point, nj. Is it possible Law screwed up his assignment?

Rukdafaidas · 08-22-2006, 05:34 PM

I know one thing, Law isn't going to consistantly play 10 yards off the line in the regular season.
Law is the most physical CB in football. Hell, they even changed the CB contact rules (started enforcing) because of him.

**the Talking Can** · 08-22-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rukdafaidas

I know one thing, Law isn't going to consistantly play 10 yards off the line in the regular season.
Law is the most physical CB in football. Hell, they even changed the CB contact rules (started enforcing) because of him.

you underestimate Gun's stupidity at your peril, young one....let me tell you the story of Kendrell Bell In Coverage...

**Reaper16** · 08-22-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

Here's my problem with "vanilla". Teicher claims that Herm doesn't want to reveal things for the regular season. Why not? After the first game, everyone is going to have film on us anyway. How many games do we really expect to win based off of surprise rather than execution?

I don't know if what we are doing is vanilla or not. It appears to be to me, but it's hard to compare against a scheme we've yet to run in the regular season.

But if the coaches really are keeping it vanilla, I have to wonder why. I would think practicing it so that the execution is there would be more important than surprising teams with plays that we can't properly execute.

I don't expect them to display the entire playbook. But it's not like teams haven't seen the Cover 2 before. Run the dman scheme liek you're going to run it in the regular season. Let these guys get the experience and confidence to play this game right when it counts.

I was thinking the same thing reading this thread. What's the use of keeping elements of the Cover 2 secret? It's not like everyone in the NFL doesn't know about that scheme. If clowns like us on message boards can ascertain that we'll be jamming recievers at the line, then NFL coaching staffs certainly can.

eChief · 08-22-2006, 07:06 PM

If they pull the covers off of just 10% of the regular season defense and offense and we see something I'll be somewhat appeased. If they pull off the covers and still suck we will be suffering through a long year.

As it looks now the playbook as well as the players are using the old fashioned iron lung to survive.

Chiefnj · 08-22-2006, 10:04 PM

What exactly does "vanilla" mean when it is being used this week by Chiefs reporters? In the 3rd quarter of the Giants game the Chiefs D did a lot of blitzing and used different blitz packages. Sapp was sent, Pollard was sent, the linebackers sent, etc. They did not line up and sit back in thier respective positions, they blitzed on just about every obvious passing down and also utilzed some run blitzes (which was successful on a 3rd and short). Vanilla defense my ass, unless it is coachspeak for "our first string defense sucks moose balls."

08-22-2006, 09:59 AM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	KC defense ready to ice vanilla look KC defense ready to ice vanilla look Chiefs don’t want to show too much but say they must improve. By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star Notes: No sign of Holmes Herm Edwards wants to see the Chiefs play defense with a lot more fire than they showed in last week’s loss to the Giants. One way to get that fire is to turn up the heat. Edwards hinted that the Chiefs, after playing mostly plain, basic defenses in their first two preseason games, might do just that in Saturday night’s game against St. Louis at Arrowhead Stadium. “We’ll just see,” Edwards said. “Let’s wait until Saturday and see what we do.” Edwards is conflicted about the defense, which has been a pushover in two games. The Chiefs have yielded a ton of rushing yards and have made no momentum-generating big plays. The Chiefs haven’t forced a turnover and have just three sacks. Edwards wants better. He also wants to keep the defenses as plain as possible to reveal as little as possible about their regular-season plans. Something has to give, and it might be the need to hide their plans. “This is the third game, so you might see a little bit different,” linebacker Derrick Johnson said. “Whatever we’re going to do, this is the game to do it. We won’t be as vanilla.” Vanilla isn’t the normal way of defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham. Blitzing and getting pressure on the quarterback are his favorite tactics, so sitting by idly while opponents take advantage of the Chiefs has to be killing him. “A little bit,” Edwards said. “You want to work on fundamentals, but you’re right, we’re playing it real vanilla. People know what we’re doing. They can sit there and game-plan for us all they want because they know what kind of coverage we’re going to run. “We’re trying to implement some things and see if players can play them. That’s very, very important. Believe me, Gunther has a bag of blitzes. We can blitz. We know how to do that. We can put pressure on the quarterback if we need to do that. But we want to get some basic defenses down first. We need to get some principles down. That’s important.” The Chiefs worked in training camp on some exotic defensive tactics but used precious few in the exhibition losses to Houston and the Giants. “I believe the coaches are doing the right thing right now in keeping it vanilla,” Johnson said. “They’re making sure we’ve got our base defense down. We can come with the blitzes. You know Gun. He can fire off some stuff. We know his mentality. Right now, he’s probably biting his tongue sometimes. But we’ve got those plays. We’re going to get to that. “When you play like we’ve been playing and when teams know what you’re going to do, they’re going to get some stuff on you. That’s OK. The coaches know what they’re doing. We’re buying in.” Safety Sammy Knight agreed. “What we’re doing is fine,” Knight said. “We’ve just got to play better. It starts by playing with more emotion. If you do that, the plays will come no matter what we’re doing on defense.” Despite some otherwise gloomy defensive statistics, Edwards sees one positive in the pass defense. The Chiefs have not yielded a throw of more than 15 yards despite defending 59 passes and allowing 38 completions. “We’re getting them to throw the ball where they don’t want to throw it,” Edwards said. As far as the largely punchless pass rush, the Chiefs are counting on the return from injury of first-round draft pick Tamba Hali to help. He will start against the Rams. Edwards indicated he believes the Chiefs are talented enough to play good defense. “We’ve got it,” Edwards said. “We just have to get on the same page. That’s all. That’s tough. We haven’t revamped everything, but we’re asking them to do some things differently. We’re playing a coverage that’s very disciplined coverage, a very physical coverage. They’re starting to understand that. There are some things we’re going to do to help them. We’re not going to just stay in this coverage.” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reach Adam Teicher, Chiefs reporter for The Star, call (816) 234-4875 or send e-mail to [email protected]
Posts: 95,626

08-22-2006, 11:40 AM	#61
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $800478	The two big plays we've allowed this preseason were a 25-yard run and a 20-yard reverse. I guess this means our run D is going to suck! __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,443

08-22-2006, 11:44 AM	#62
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1539523	You guys have to realize, Scanlon has only been in on a limited number of plays, he's being held back until the season starts.
Posts: 40,649

08-22-2006, 04:34 PM	#68
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $800478	That's a very good point, nj. Is it possible Law screwed up his assignment? __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,443

08-22-2006, 05:34 PM	#69
Rukdafaidas lifelong Chiefs survivor Join Date: Mar 2003 Casino cash: $3849900	I know one thing, Law isn't going to consistantly play 10 yards off the line in the regular season. Law is the most physical CB in football. Hell, they even changed the CB contact rules (started enforcing) because of him.
Posts: 2,673

08-22-2006, 07:06 PM	#72
eChief Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	If they pull the covers off of just 10% of the regular season defense and offense and we see something I'll be somewhat appeased. If they pull off the covers and still suck we will be suffering through a long year. As it looks now the playbook as well as the players are using the old fashioned iron lung to survive.
Posts: 221

08-22-2006, 10:04 PM	#73
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	What exactly does "vanilla" mean when it is being used this week by Chiefs reporters? In the 3rd quarter of the Giants game the Chiefs D did a lot of blitzing and used different blitz packages. Sapp was sent, Pollard was sent, the linebackers sent, etc. They did not line up and sit back in thier respective positions, they blitzed on just about every obvious passing down and also utilzed some run blitzes (which was successful on a 3rd and short). Vanilla defense my ass, unless it is coachspeak for "our first string defense sucks moose balls." __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811