Chiefs JoPo gives Herm one final blow - Page 7

Hammock Parties · 01-24-2009, 02:13 AM

Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. Who cares if he had to wait a week. He gets $3 million and a vacation. Big ****ing deal. I'm disgusted. The shot at Pioli was unnecessary.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/998818.html
Herm had to go, but the delay was cruel

Scott Pioli really had no choice, and everyone knew it. He had to fire Herm Edwards. He had to give himself a fresh start. He had to start over with his own coach. He had to do it for a hundred different reasons, and Edwards’ 6-26 record the last couple of seasons was only one of them.

So, I’m not sure why it took 10 days for Pioli to pull the trigger. I’m not sure why he left Herm dangling out there for those 10 days while his assistant coaches fled like high school kids on graduation day. I’m not sure why the Chiefs would throw Herm overboard late on a Friday afternoon with a news release and a couple of pointless statements. I’m not sure what it says about an organization that it would treat a loyal man like that. Actually, I’m precisely sure what it says about the Chiefs.

Put it this way: Scott Pioli better win fast. He isn’t winning anyone over with his class.

In the end, I suspect, most people in town won’t care how Scott Pioli fired Herm Edwards, because most people just wanted Herm Edwards fired. Sports is a hard business and a cold game. People forget fast. Just one day earlier, Gunther Cunningham bolted for Detroit, where he gets to coach the one team that had a defense worse than his own. And he did not feel like he could leave without first shifting blame for his defense to Herm.

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defenses because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”

Key phrase in that statement: “was loyal.”

And how true was the statement anyway? In 2006, when Herm Edwards became head coach, he kept Gunther Cunningham on as his defensive coordinator.

This was despite the fact that the two years before Herm arrived, Cunningham’s defenses finished 31st and 25th in total defense. They weren’t playing zone then — the head coach was Dick Vermeil. and he would let his defensive coordinators do whatever the heck they wanted. Half the time, Vermeil didn’t even know the Chiefs had a defense (and half the time, he was right).

But that’s how it goes in sports: When a man gets down, people will kick. Nobody really wants to rehash this, but Herm Edwards walked into a raging hailstorm when he took over as Chiefs coach in 2006. The Chiefs were the worst kind of football team: They were old and refused to admit it. The Chiefs also had a uniquely inflated view of themselves, considering they had been to the playoffs exactly one time in eight years. Before Edwards coached his first game, his star left tackle, Willie Roaf, retired (even as the Chiefs begged him to come back). In Edwards’ first game, his quarterback, Trent Green, got knocked unconscious and he was never again an effective NFL quarterback. And, as already noted, the defense was awful.

Somehow, Edwards coaxed that team to a 9-7 record — that “zone” defense actually improved the Chiefs to 16th in defense — and they won an improbable playoff spot. True, the Chiefs promptly were humiliated by Indianapolis; but I’ve always thought that only made Edwards’ coaching job more impressive. As the old Groucho Marx line goes: How that team got into the playoffs, I’ll never know.

It was then that Edwards pleaded with people behind the scenes to let him blow things up. He knew the Chiefs were about to collapse. The secondary was ancient, and the offensive line was old enough to be the secondary’s father, and Larry Johnson was going to be tough to deal with, and Will Shields retired and the quarterback situation was a mess — and yes, Edwards could see it coming. But Chiefs president Carl Peterson was not ready to blow up anything. He did not even want to use the word rebuilding.

So, Edwards played the good soldier. He put his team in position to win games. The Chiefs were actually 4-3 at one point. And then, Larry Johnson got hurt, and reality set in and the Chiefs lost their last nine games.

Then Edwards was asked, finally, to blow things up. And the Chiefs did. They spent hardly any money in 2008 — they were $30 million under the salary cap. Edwards went to camp with rookies and free agents and guys who happened to be driving by River Falls and a couple of people who were in town for a wedding. Then a bunch of those guys got hurt, and the Chiefs added people named Wallace Gilberry and Rocky Boiman and Curtis Gatewood. The season went badly.

And this is not to say that Edwards did a great coaching job — he patently did not. There are no arguments after a 2-14 season. Many of the complaints people have about his game management are perfectly valid. But he did do what the Chiefs asked. He did fight through a season with an understaffed team. He did have his team competitive in numerous games. He did play the rookies and the kids, giving them experience. If Edwards was right about some of these players — if he was right about Branden Albert and Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr and some of the other recent picks — then the Chiefs might improve quickly. If he was wrong, well, we’ll find that out quickly, too.

But the point is that he did give his life to the Chiefs the last three years. He did a lot of difficult and unpleasant things to make the Chiefs better. He did not deserve to twist in the wind. Sure, Pioli had to fire him, everyone could see that coming a week and a half ago. That’s why it should have happened a week and a half ago.

Edwards deserved that, at least.

**the Talking Can** · 01-24-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

Herm was given a 4 million $ parachute. If his ability to pack that chute is equal to his ability as a head football coach, let's hope he has somebody else pack the chute for him.

And while I'm at, back in 1990, Albert Lewis held out and his reason was: I don't like the east coast attitude" coming from the front office. I wish I had access to the Star archives or I'd get the exact quote. This was all I could find:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A966958260

It's funny that this has come full circle. Carl was once the hopeful, hard ass GM, replacing the Schaaf/Steadman. In 20 years he turned into the guy he replaced. That's why I don't like Clark saying he'd like to find another guy to run the franchise for 20 years. Hopefully, Pioli's reign won't end like Carl's.

So get ready Tony, Tamba, DJ, and the rest. If winning isn't your one and only goal, get the f out. Today.

it is rare for a coach or a GM now to be successful beyond a decade...too much can happen, shit gets stale...hopefully we'll cut bait a lot sooner next time..

as for the players, totally agree....i hope we get a "parcells"-like coach who calls them out...players can suck for ever in KC without repercussion, from Bartee to McIntosh...if you aren't committed to getting better than beat it, and i don't care who it is...

whoman69 · 01-24-2009, 07:06 PM

Its pretty clear after having a coach who didn't get the most out of his players being proceeded by one who could not trust younger players to be on the field, that we need someone who will hold the players responsible for their play, not just toss them under the bus. We need someone who can develop young talent. We need to have someone who will know that when the team loses its because he just didn't do enough that week to prepare.

theorangelion · 01-24-2009, 07:11 PM

I actually though JOE POSNANSKI wrote a decent article. What was the name of that ex o-line coach that became oc? Use to run on 3rd and 15

**Bowser** · 01-24-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theorangelion

I actually though JOE POSNANSKI wrote a decent article. What was the name of that ex o-line coach that became oc? Use to run on 3rd and 15

Please don't speak of Mike Solari again, thanks.

theorangelion · 01-24-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

Please don't speak of Mike Solari again, thanks.

Yeah that was the dirt bag thanks

Coach · 01-24-2009, 07:20 PM

Since we're bringing up Mike Solari, the question now is, was he "Hermcuffed" when he was here?

There was strong evidence with Gailey early on during the season, before the Thigpen experiment. Further evidence was Gunther's testimony, that he was allegedly forced to run the Cover 2.

theorangelion · 01-24-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Since we're bringing up Mike Solari, the question now is, was he "Hermcuffed" when he was here?

There was strong evidence with Gailey early on during the season, before the Thigpen experiment. Further evidence was Gunther's testimony, that he was allegedly forced to run the Cover 2.

Solari did not have the horsepower to be Hermcuffed. Hermcuckolded yes.

Now Gun definitely Hermcuffed. That article lowered my view of Herm to Whale Caca

Love ya Gun Sorry you couldn't have stayed to be here with Shanny

whoman69 · 01-25-2009, 09:14 AM

Story was that Solari was read the riot act early on by Herm. Totally believable as the conservative play calling on third down continued with Gailey. The story goes that in a pre-season game the Chiefs were just outside the red zone with very little time time left in the half. Solari took a shot at the end zone but the end zone but was called for a penalty which took them out of FG range. Herm wanted the team to settle for FGs. Herm wanted the team to run a draw or screen on third and long until the game was out of reach.
I'm not saying that Solari was ready to be OC. He probably wasn't ready for the job, but he was the best offensive coach we had when Saunders left. I think its a little much to go from Oline coach to OC. I think that's pretty rare without some experience at another position.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-25-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theorangelion

Solari did not have the horsepower to be Hermcuffed. Hermcuckolded yes.

Now Gun definitely Hermcuffed. That article lowered my view of Herm to Whale Caca

Love ya Gun Sorry you couldn't have stayed to be here with Shanny

Please don't excuse Gun for this mess. He ran his brand of defense under Vermeil and it failed. And the Chiefs didn't run a pure Cover 2 under Gun--they threw in a lot of blitzes, and they always failed too.

Don't believe for a second that GUn wasn't a part of the problem.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-25-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Story was that Solari was read the riot act early on by Herm. Totally believable as the conservative play calling on third down continued with Gailey. The story goes that in a pre-season game the Chiefs were just outside the red zone with very little time time left in the half. Solari took a shot at the end zone but the end zone but was called for a penalty which took them out of FG range. Herm wanted the team to settle for FGs. Herm wanted the team to run a draw or screen on third and long until the game was out of reach.
I'm not saying that Solari was ready to be OC. He probably wasn't ready for the job, but he was the best offensive coach we had when Saunders left. I think its a little much to go from Oline coach to OC. I think that's pretty rare without some experience at another position.

I still stand behind the thought that Herm didn't have full authority to decide who his coordinators were. Sure, he was interested in Solari and Gun in New York, but does anybody think that during an open interview process, he would have wanted to hire either of them? It's pretty clear that both those guys had a completely different philosophy. Solari was a Coryell scheme, Herm is more West Coast. Gun is a blitzer, and Herm apparently really wanted to run cover 2.

I find it very, very hard to believe that Herm wouldn't have hired a pure West Coast coach or a Gailey type coach who loves smashmouth football over Solari, or that Herm wouldn't have hired a coach who has experience with the cover 2 over one who didn't run it much. Yet another example of Peterson over-loyalty.

whoman69 · 01-25-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I still stand behind the thought that Herm didn't have full authority to decide who his coordinators were. Sure, he was interested in Solari and Gun in New York, but does anybody think that during an open interview process, he would have wanted to hire either of them? It's pretty clear that both those guys had a completely different philosophy. Solari was a Coryell scheme, Herm is more West Coast. Gun is a blitzer, and Herm apparently really wanted to run cover 2.

I find it very, very hard to believe that Herm wouldn't have hired a pure West Coast coach or a Gailey type coach who loves smashmouth football over Solari, or that Herm wouldn't have hired a coach who has experience with the cover 2 over one who didn't run it much. Yet another example of Peterson over-loyalty.

I think Herm went along with the notion that Solari was ready. Whether he had a choice in them or not, the fact remains that he picked their poison. He chose the means by which they failed.

01-24-2009, 02:13 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $700478	JoPo gives Herm one final blow Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. Who cares if he had to wait a week. He gets $3 million and a vacation. Big **ing deal. I'm disgusted. The shot at Pioli was unnecessary. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/998818.html Herm had to go, but the delay was cruel** Scott Pioli really had no choice, and everyone knew it. He had to fire Herm Edwards. He had to give himself a fresh start. He had to start over with his own coach. He had to do it for a hundred different reasons, and Edwards’ 6-26 record the last couple of seasons was only one of them. So, I’m not sure why it took 10 days for Pioli to pull the trigger. I’m not sure why he left Herm dangling out there for those 10 days while his assistant coaches fled like high school kids on graduation day. I’m not sure why the Chiefs would throw Herm overboard late on a Friday afternoon with a news release and a couple of pointless statements. I’m not sure what it says about an organization that it would treat a loyal man like that. Actually, I’m precisely sure what it says about the Chiefs. Put it this way: Scott Pioli better win fast. He isn’t winning anyone over with his class. In the end, I suspect, most people in town won’t care how Scott Pioli fired Herm Edwards, because most people just wanted Herm Edwards fired. Sports is a hard business and a cold game. People forget fast. Just one day earlier, Gunther Cunningham bolted for Detroit, where he gets to coach the one team that had a defense worse than his own. And he did not feel like he could leave without first shifting blame for his defense to Herm. “I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defenses because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.” Key phrase in that statement: “was loyal.” And how true was the statement anyway? In 2006, when Herm Edwards became head coach, he kept Gunther Cunningham on as his defensive coordinator. This was despite the fact that the two years before Herm arrived, Cunningham’s defenses finished 31st and 25th in total defense. They weren’t playing zone then — the head coach was Dick Vermeil. and he would let his defensive coordinators do whatever the heck they wanted. Half the time, Vermeil didn’t even know the Chiefs had a defense (and half the time, he was right). But that’s how it goes in sports: When a man gets down, people will kick. Nobody really wants to rehash this, but Herm Edwards walked into a raging hailstorm when he took over as Chiefs coach in 2006. The Chiefs were the worst kind of football team: They were old and refused to admit it. The Chiefs also had a uniquely inflated view of themselves, considering they had been to the playoffs exactly one time in eight years. Before Edwards coached his first game, his star left tackle, Willie Roaf, retired (even as the Chiefs begged him to come back). In Edwards’ first game, his quarterback, Trent Green, got knocked unconscious and he was never again an effective NFL quarterback. And, as already noted, the defense was awful. Somehow, Edwards coaxed that team to a 9-7 record — that “zone” defense actually improved the Chiefs to 16th in defense — and they won an improbable playoff spot. True, the Chiefs promptly were humiliated by Indianapolis; but I’ve always thought that only made Edwards’ coaching job more impressive. As the old Groucho Marx line goes: How that team got into the playoffs, I’ll never know. It was then that Edwards pleaded with people behind the scenes to let him blow things up. He knew the Chiefs were about to collapse. The secondary was ancient, and the offensive line was old enough to be the secondary’s father, and Larry Johnson was going to be tough to deal with, and Will Shields retired and the quarterback situation was a mess — and yes, Edwards could see it coming. But Chiefs president Carl Peterson was not ready to blow up anything. He did not even want to use the word rebuilding. So, Edwards played the good soldier. He put his team in position to win games. The Chiefs were actually 4-3 at one point. And then, Larry Johnson got hurt, and reality set in and the Chiefs lost their last nine games. Then Edwards was asked, finally, to blow things up. And the Chiefs did. They spent hardly any money in 2008 — they were $30 million under the salary cap. Edwards went to camp with rookies and free agents and guys who happened to be driving by River Falls and a couple of people who were in town for a wedding. Then a bunch of those guys got hurt, and the Chiefs added people named Wallace Gilberry and Rocky Boiman and Curtis Gatewood. The season went badly. And this is not to say that Edwards did a great coaching job — he patently did not. There are no arguments after a 2-14 season. Many of the complaints people have about his game management are perfectly valid. But he did do what the Chiefs asked. He did fight through a season with an understaffed team. He did have his team competitive in numerous games. He did play the rookies and the kids, giving them experience. If Edwards was right about some of these players — if he was right about Branden Albert and Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr and some of the other recent picks — then the Chiefs might improve quickly. If he was wrong, well, we’ll find that out quickly, too. But the point is that he did give his life to the Chiefs the last three years. He did a lot of difficult and unpleasant things to make the Chiefs better. He did not deserve to twist in the wind. Sure, Pioli had to fire him, everyone could see that coming a week and a half ago. That’s why it should have happened a week and a half ago. Edwards deserved that, at least.
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01-24-2009, 07:11 PM	#93
theorangelion Starter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: n00b, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	I actually though JOE POSNANSKI wrote a decent article. What was the name of that ex o-line coach that became oc? Use to run on 3rd and 15
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01-24-2009, 07:20 PM	#96
Coach Champs! Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $3668476	Since we're bringing up Mike Solari, the question now is, was he "Hermcuffed" when he was here? There was strong evidence with Gailey early on during the season, before the Thigpen experiment. Further evidence was Gunther's testimony, that he was allegedly forced to run the Cover 2. __________________ Super Bowl IV, LIV, LVII & LVIII Champions 2020, 2021, 2023, 2024, & 2025 AFC Champions 1985 & 2015 Major League Baseball World Series Champions 1980, 1985, 2014, & 2015 Major League Baseball American League Champions 2015 American League Central Division Champs
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