Chiefs Defensive Line - Page 11

chuxtrux · 04-17-2009, 12:40 PM

If they do move Hali to OLB in the 3-4, who are they going to have in the trenches. Dorsey isn't really suited to play in the middle in that kind of defense, do they move him outside and put Tyler at NT? And I guess put McBride in the other DE spot? Not that the defensive line can get much worse than last year, but it is still the one spot on the team that I have no idea what they are going to do with.

bdeg · 04-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Ok rushing from the LDE position is generally harder than rushing from the RDE spot (if you are looking at those position from the defensive side of the ball).

Look at the top 10 sackers each year and tell me how many are playing the RDE spot like Jared, and how many are playing the LDE spot like Hali. It's really an apples and orange comparison because those two positions are being asked to do different things.

It's easier to get sacks because they're rushing the blindside. But who pass blocks better LT's or RT's, this is pretty simple.

Teams put their best rusher on the weakside, of course that's where the top sackers are going to play. Just like teams generally like a run stopper with some ability to rush against RTs on the strongsidde.

I'm not equating a sack with beating an OT.

Just Passin' By · 04-17-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Well I think he said that is what the coaches just told him. Since they lined up today it would be interesting to see if that is how they lined up.

Hmmmmm.......

Yes, I'd want to see it in action leading up to the draft in order to get a feel for how it's working out. My guess is that Halioli already have their 3 choices at the ready and in order, and are also prepared for any trade scenarios, but someone stinking out the joint between now and then could potentially impact that.

TheGuardian · 04-17-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdeg

It's easier to get sacks because they're rushing the blindside. But who pass blocks better LT's or RT's, this is pretty simple.

Teams put their best rusher on the weakside, of course that's where the top sackers are going to play. Just like teams generally like a run stopper with some ability to rush against RTs on the strongsidde.

It's not about who is the better pass blocker per say, it's also about what the defensive end is being asked to do. No different than the fact that ROLB's tend to get more sacks than LOLB's in a 30 front. It's not a coincidence and it has more to do with who is the better pass blocker. If it were about lining up the best pass rusher against the worst pass blocker, then why wouldn't Jared Allen go to LDE?

TheGuardian · 04-17-2009, 07:28 PM

I haven't been able to find anything other than the fact that he stated they lined up in an under front. Which means a 1 gap system obviously, and since Pendergast runs an underfront hybrid 30 front, that's probably what they saw. Again, to those who don't understand, it really is just a 4-3 with a standup backer instead of a defensive end. Fact is, we have run some of this in the past when Jared Allen was here.

Just Passin' By · 04-17-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I haven't been able to find anything other than the fact that he stated they lined up in an under front. Which means a 1 gap system obviously, and since Pendergast runs an underfront hybrid 30 front, that's probably what they saw. Again, to those who don't understand, it really is just a 4-3 with a standup backer instead of a defensive end. Fact is, we have run some of this in the past when Jared Allen was here.

Yes, but that was really just transitory in Arizona, as they'll now likely make more of a firm commitment with Pendergast gone. The question in Kansas City is whether or not that will also be the case in K.C.

bdeg · 04-17-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

It's not about who is the better pass blocker per say, it's also about what the defensive end is being asked to do. No different than the fact that ROLB's tend to get more sacks than LOLB's in a 30 front. It's not a coincidence and it has more to do with who is the better pass blocker. If it were about lining up the best pass rusher against the worst pass blocker, then why wouldn't Jared Allen go to LDE?

What do you think I don't understand? I think you must be misunderstanding something I said.

TheGuardian · 04-17-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdeg

What do you think I don't understand? I think you must be misunderstanding something I said.

Nope. What I am saying is, the defensive alignment doesn't favor the guy playing LDE even if he is a good pass rusher for lots of reasons. There is only a couple of REALLY good guys that could tear it up rushing the passer from that side.

bdeg · 04-17-2009, 07:44 PM

I totally agree, as far as getting sacks in concerned. The point I was trying to convey was that in any given play a right tackle is easier for a player to get by than a left tackle.

Although I don't really understand your second point, are you excluding players who couldn't play the run like a LE should? I think there are quite a few RE's out there to command constant double teams during passing situations if they placed at LE. Or they'd get a ton of hurries.

Mecca · 04-17-2009, 07:46 PM

Tamba Hali doesn't exactly play the run like a LE should...

bdeg · 04-17-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tamba Hali doesn't exactly play the run like a LE should...

No question. I see almost no reason to ever put him in on first down.

**Reaper16** · 04-17-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tamba Hali doesn't exactly play the run like a LE should...

I think I remember a quote from a scout a couple of years ago that said all a team has to do to move the chains against the Chiefs was to run at Hali.

Pioli Zombie · 04-17-2009, 08:21 PM

Yeah, Tamba Hali very rarely draws comparisons to Carl Eller or L.C.Greenwood. In fact, I'm thinking Drew Barrymore would be more effective at stopping the run.
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Pioli Zombie · 04-18-2009, 05:29 AM

I wake up thinking football. Chiefs trade #3 to the Patriots for #23 and #34 and a 4th or something.
Patriots can draft Curry to play next to Mayo. How sick would that be?
The Chiefs will have then traded #3 for #23, Cassel, Vrabel,and a 4th. And they'll have the #34 back. With Pioli picking that's 5 good players you'll be adding to your team

Win-win trade.

Bomb away.
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**the Talking Can** · 04-18-2009, 05:48 AM

the reality is that this year is about evaluation

Haley won't know what we have until he sees them play...

hopefully we find that some of these guys can contribute in the new schemes, even if it's only as depth....the rest will have to be replaced...

Direckshun · 04-18-2009, 05:55 AM

The depth chart as I have it for the DL, understanding that we'll be playing a hybrid.

DE: McBride, Johnston (4-3)
NT: Tyler, Edwards
Undertackle (4-3): Dorsey
DE: Boone, Hali (4-3)

We could honestly draft a NT and/or a 3-4 DE this draft.

04-17-2009, 12:40 PM
chuxtrux Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grbacs basement Casino cash: $10004990	Defensive Line If they do move Hali to OLB in the 3-4, who are they going to have in the trenches. Dorsey isn't really suited to play in the middle in that kind of defense, do they move him outside and put Tyler at NT? And I guess put McBride in the other DE spot? Not that the defensive line can get much worse than last year, but it is still the one spot on the team that I have no idea what they are going to do with.
Posts: 473

04-17-2009, 07:28 PM	#154
TheGuardian MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $6305299	I haven't been able to find anything other than the fact that he stated they lined up in an under front. Which means a 1 gap system obviously, and since Pendergast runs an underfront hybrid 30 front, that's probably what they saw. Again, to those who don't understand, it really is just a 4-3 with a standup backer instead of a defensive end. Fact is, we have run some of this in the past when Jared Allen was here.
Posts: 9,564

04-17-2009, 07:44 PM	#158
bdeg Veteran Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: iowa Casino cash: $10004900	I totally agree, as far as getting sacks in concerned. The point I was trying to convey was that in any given play a right tackle is easier for a player to get by than a left tackle. Although I don't really understand your second point, are you excluding players who couldn't play the run like a LE should? I think there are quite a few RE's out there to command constant double teams during passing situations if they placed at LE. Or they'd get a ton of hurries.
Posts: 2,987

04-17-2009, 07:46 PM	#159
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-762950	Tamba Hali doesn't exactly play the run like a LE should...
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04-17-2009, 08:21 PM	#162
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	Yeah, Tamba Hali very rarely draws comparisons to Carl Eller or L.C.Greenwood. In fact, I'm thinking Drew Barrymore would be more effective at stopping the run. Posted via Mobile Device
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04-18-2009, 05:29 AM	#163
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	I wake up thinking football. Chiefs trade #3 to the Patriots for #23 and #34 and a 4th or something. Patriots can draft Curry to play next to Mayo. How sick would that be? The Chiefs will have then traded #3 for #23, Cassel, Vrabel,and a 4th. And they'll have the #34 back. With Pioli picking that's 5 good players you'll be adding to your team Win-win trade. Bomb away. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 11,077

04-18-2009, 05:48 AM	#164
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9112208	the reality is that this year is about evaluation Haley won't know what we have until he sees them play... hopefully we find that some of these guys can contribute in the new schemes, even if it's only as depth....the rest will have to be replaced... __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

04-18-2009, 05:55 AM	#165
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	The depth chart as I have it for the DL, understanding that we'll be playing a hybrid. DE: McBride, Johnston (4-3) NT: Tyler, Edwards Undertackle (4-3): Dorsey DE: Boone, Hali (4-3) We could honestly draft a NT and/or a 3-4 DE this draft.
Posts: 59,693