John Dorsey handled the difficult 2014 offseason unbelievably well.

[Direckshun]

The Chiefs faced a difficult offseason following the 2013 playoff meltdown. After GM John Dorsey's spending spree in the 2013 offseason, the Chiefs had a half dozen premier free agents getting ready to hit the market, no cap room to sign any of them (or any incoming free agents of any renown), and no second round pick due to the Alex Smith deal. How do you make a team betterwhen you're set to lose so much talent and have so little resources to replace them?

Now, I'm not an NFL General Manager, and y'all better be glad I don't run the Chiefs, because I must have ran three dozen simulations of that offseason for the Chiefs before it arrived, and every one of them had the Chiefs doing their damnedest to stay afloat replacing our departing players with free agents from the Salvation Army and midround draft picks. The intense spending spree of 2013 now looked like it had hopelessly hamstrung the Chiefs, who at this point would just have to hope to stay afloat until cap space opened up in future years.

John Dorsey, however, is an NFL General Manager. And armed with few draft picks and a shoestring budget, he totally dismantled my expectations of what can be accomplished by a Chiefs team that knows exactly what it's doing.

Let's start with the free agent departures, because this part is astonishing. The Chiefs limited budget meant that they would ultimately have to wave bye-bye to left tackle Brandon Albert, starting guards Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz, playmaker Dexter McCluster, run stopping extraordinaire Tyson Jackson, starting linebacker Akeem Jordan, starting free safety Kendrick Lewis, dynamic kick returner and dime safety Quentin Demps, and would eventually cut Pro Bowl corner Brandon Flowers. Whatever you think of some of the players individually, that is objectively a lot of talent to replace. Once these players left Kansas City, they all went to sign contracts with new teams for a combined $100 million. ($140 million if you count Flowers' new deal this past offseason.)

That's right. John Dorsey allowed $100 million in talent to walk out the door, with roughly a tenth of that in cap space with which to replace said players. It was impossible to imagine a world where the Chiefs emerged from this offseason stronger than they were entering it, missing this much talent.

So armed virtually no money, Dorsey's free agent signings were meager, but solid, it's crazy to see how much he built the team for 2014 (and 2015!) with so little:

• Franchise QB Alex Smith was boxed in to a four year extension at a "middle class" pay rate for QBs.
• Stud safety Husain Abdullah was re-signed.
• Valuable reserve safeties Kurt Coleman and Daniel Sorensen were brought in, and Kelcie McCray was traded for by throwing impending-bust guard Rishaw Johnson at the Buccaneers.
• Underrated starting linebacker Josh Mauga was ushered in by DC Bob Sutton.
• Underrated interior passrusher Vance Walker was inked.
• Nickel corner Chris Owens was signed, which paid dividends until the last month of the year.
• Prototypical third down back Joe McKnight was given a chance.
• OL Jeff Linkenbach and ILB Joe Mays did very little in limited action, but were signed for pennies on the dollar.
• The one disastrous signing from this entire offseason of bargain bin shopping was guard Mike McGlynn, whom the Chiefs started at left guard for most of 2014, providing nightmares to any Chiefs fans who love to watch offensive line play.

Several of these players are still helping the Chiefs today in Abdullah, Sorensen, and Mauga.

Now, it is worth mentioning that the Chiefs' limited cap space arguably did cause them to lose out on free agent WRs Emmanuel Sanders and DeSean Jackson. But by otherwise refusing to make any ridiculously-structured, ultra-back-loaded contracts that would have saddled the Chiefs' cap in future years, the cap came mostly clean in 2015, allowing the Chiefs to pay studs OLB Justin Houston, WR Jeremy Maclin, and DE Allen Bailey bundles of cash in the coming year and still have close to $30 million in clean cap space in 2015.

However, it should be mentioned that John Dorsey was just getting started. Check out this draft class from 2014, even without a 2nd rounder due to Alex Smith:

• Promising pass rusher Dee Ford in the first round.
• Promising corner Phillip Gaines in the third round.
• Electric playmaker De'Anthony Thomas in the fourth.
• Starting linemen Zach Fulton and Laurent Duvarney-Tardif in the sixth round.
• WR Albert Wilson and RB Charcandrick West signed as undrafted free agents, which is a stupidly ridiculous haul.

All of these players are contributing to the Chiefs now, significantly so, though Gaines and Thomas are battling injury.

It's worth summarizing for emphasis: With little cap space, $100 million in departing free agents, and no second round pick, John Dorsey made the Chiefs a better team in 2014.

Almost every team needs those splashy free agency signings to help put it over the top. But those quiet offseasons, where teams confidently stuck to the plan and didn't make any egregious errors out of impatience or impertinence, are just as important, and Dorsey aced it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You obviously never took the time to read my assertions. I asserted that if Herm were worth half a **** at personnel he'd have found some depth for not a lot of money like Dorsey had. You turned that into high priced free agents for "meaningless wins." And you touted how Pioli was given the third overall pick as if it was something other than the team being a goddamned hot garbage ****ing cluster**** disaster.

Dorsey had a team to build around. Despite your sob story about the roster he inherited, he had a decent amount of talent and most were young. He built the team through what he inherited (15 decent enough starters / 8 pro bowlers), several pricey free agents, a bold trade for a QB, lots of small but cap significant FA moves (e.g. Fasano, Mauga/Abdullah second contracts, etc...), and yes the draft/scrap haul. Herm/Kuharich could barely keep their own let alone sign FAs, so they had to rely only on draft/scrap pile. Dorsey/Reid is obviously better than Herm/Kuharich. That doesn't make Herm bad at personnel.

I never supported tanking. I support playing hard with the roster you have. But yeah, Getting 2-3 extra wins because of middling fixes that hurt your long-term cap, hurt your ability to see what you have in young players, and hurt your draft haul... those are meaningless wins. Band-aiding a roster that isn't competitive when you don't have a clean cap is your typical Carl Peterson "I'm going to put butts in seats move." I hated the idea in 2007. I hated it in 2014.

It's apples and oranges. Dorsey inherited a roster that could have been rebuilt while retooling. Herm inherited a roster that had to be sledgehammered. Period. He could have squeezed more out of the lemon in 2006. I don't agree. The Chiefs should have blown the team up sooner (in 2006).

This whole thread is about there was no cap space. The guys on the defense were old, save Poe Houston and Berry, who was not nearly as effective at the time as he is this season. The defense had just collapsed the whole season - capped off with the incredible playoff loss.

The offense was extremely limited. Smith was ineffective against better defenses and was over 30 (IIRC). And about 80% of the production came from 1 RB that was almost 30. The WR corps had ****all besides and old slow Bowe.

On the whole, most of the playmakers were old save a few young guys along with using a good chunk of the cap to get back to competitive. To top it all off we had just floundered on yet another playoff run.

The situation is not all that different from what Vermiel left. The cap in terms of being ****ed for the next year wasn't as bad, but Dorsey sold out to get the team not a total shit****, much like Vermiel sold out to win in the playoffs. And the offense wasn't as good as Vermeils and the defense wasn't as bad, but the defense couldn't hold a 28 point lead against a crap team. And all the offensive production came from a RB that is over the hill in RB standards.

Why no sledgehammer? Why is it perfectly acceptable for Herm to butt**** the franchise? Yet you aren't screaming for Dorsey to dump everybody worth a **** so we can "get young (shitty) guys snaps?

Why?

Pioli didn't hand Dorsey a mess roster wise. Vermeil handed Herm an utter Titanic shipwreck disaster. There is no comparison. Not even close.
-2006 Chiefs team was $20M over the cap. 2013 Chiefs were $20M under the cap
-2006 Chiefs had less than 5 positional players under 30 good enough to make an NFL roster. Literally. 2013 Chiefs had about 15 solid enough starters already and 8 who made the 2014 pro bowl
-2006 Chiefs were the oldest roster in football by a mile. 2013 Chiefs were about average
-2006 Chiefs had a ton of money in terrible dead money contracts. Dorsey had little trouble purging most of the roster
-Dorsey was on the same page as Reid. Herm had to fight to take control out of Peterson, who was mucking everything up
And yes, the QB makes a huge difference regardless of your opinion on Alex Smith. Herm could have done the same thing and brought in Chad Pennington. He didn't. And I'm glad he didn't.

[Prison Bitch]

Direckshun is an idiot who shouldn't be allowed to start threads. Last year he wanted Dorsey fired:



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=286391

[go bo]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

DireckshunPutin's Pussy is an idiot who shouldn't be allowed to start threads. Last year he wanted Putin to take ukraine, georgia, latvia, romania and north caroliner~

you're welcome...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Direckshun is an idiot who shouldn't be allowed to start threads. Last year he wanted Dorsey fired:



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=286391

He starts the same threads on all the Chief boards it seems. Voyager 2.0

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

He starts the same threads on all the Chief boards it seems. Voyager 2.0

I'm good if he wants Dorsey fired or if he wants to praise him. But the dude does both. Too schizo

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by go bowe

you're welcome...

Keep that shit in DC, slut.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Jaye Howard made me forget about Tyson Jackson rather quickly.

You got that right !! Jaye Howard will be our NT of the near future when DP chooses to leave because Dorsey refuses to give him the farm.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

At this point?

Only the stupid ones.

What has he won, and can he carry the team on his back like Roethisberger/Rodgers during a barn burner?

[Squalor2]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

The Chiefs faced a difficult offseason following the 2013 playoff meltdown. After GM John Dorsey's spending spree in the 2013 offseason, the Chiefs had a half dozen premier free agents getting ready to hit the market, no cap room to sign any of them (or any incoming free agents of any renown), and no second round pick due to the Alex Smith deal. How do you make a team betterwhen you're set to lose so much talent and have so little resources to replace them?

Now, I'm not an NFL General Manager, and y'all better be glad I don't run the Chiefs, because I must have ran three dozen simulations of that offseason for the Chiefs before it arrived, and every one of them had the Chiefs doing their damnedest to stay afloat replacing our departing players with free agents from the Salvation Army and midround draft picks. The intense spending spree of 2013 now looked like it had hopelessly hamstrung the Chiefs, who at this point would just have to hope to stay afloat until cap space opened up in future years.

John Dorsey, however, is an NFL General Manager. And armed with few draft picks and a shoestring budget, he totally dismantled my expectations of what can be accomplished by a Chiefs team that knows exactly what it's doing.

Let's start with the free agent departures, because this part is astonishing. The Chiefs limited budget meant that they would ultimately have to wave bye-bye to left tackle Brandon Albert, starting guards Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz, playmaker Dexter McCluster, run stopping extraordinaire Tyson Jackson, starting linebacker Akeem Jordan, starting free safety Kendrick Lewis, dynamic kick returner and dime safety Quentin Demps, and would eventually cut Pro Bowl corner Brandon Flowers. Whatever you think of some of the players individually, that is objectively a lot of talent to replace. Once these players left Kansas City, they all went to sign contracts with new teams for a combined $100 million. ($140 million if you count Flowers' new deal this past offseason.)

That's right. John Dorsey allowed $100 million in talent to walk out the door, with roughly a tenth of that in cap space with which to replace said players. It was impossible to imagine a world where the Chiefs emerged from this offseason stronger than they were entering it, missing this much talent.

So armed virtually no money, Dorsey's free agent signings were meager, but solid, it's crazy to see how much he built the team for 2014 (and 2015!) with so little:

• Franchise QB Alex Smith was boxed in to a four year extension at a "middle class" pay rate for QBs.
• Stud safety Husain Abdullah was re-signed.
• Valuable reserve safeties Kurt Coleman and Daniel Sorensen were brought in, and Kelcie McCray was traded for by throwing impending-bust guard Rishaw Johnson at the Buccaneers.
• Underrated starting linebacker Josh Mauga was ushered in by DC Bob Sutton.
• Underrated interior passrusher Vance Walker was inked.
• Nickel corner Chris Owens was signed, which paid dividends until the last month of the year.
• Prototypical third down back Joe McKnight was given a chance.
• OL Jeff Linkenbach and ILB Joe Mays did very little in limited action, but were signed for pennies on the dollar.
• The one disastrous signing from this entire offseason of bargain bin shopping was guard Mike McGlynn, whom the Chiefs started at left guard for most of 2014, providing nightmares to any Chiefs fans who love to watch offensive line play.

Several of these players are still helping the Chiefs today in Abdullah, Sorensen, and Mauga.

Now, it is worth mentioning that the Chiefs' limited cap space arguably did cause them to lose out on free agent WRs Emmanuel Sanders and DeSean Jackson. But by otherwise refusing to make any ridiculously-structured, ultra-back-loaded contracts that would have saddled the Chiefs' cap in future years, the cap came mostly clean in 2015, allowing the Chiefs to pay studs OLB Justin Houston, WR Jeremy Maclin, and DE Allen Bailey bundles of cash in the coming year and still have close to $30 million in clean cap space in 2015.

However, it should be mentioned that John Dorsey was just getting started. Check out this draft class from 2014, even without a 2nd rounder due to Alex Smith:

• Promising pass rusher Dee Ford in the first round.
• Promising corner Phillip Gaines in the third round.
• Electric playmaker De'Anthony Thomas in the fourth.
• Starting linemen Zach Fulton and Laurent Duvarney-Tardif in the sixth round.
• WR Albert Wilson and RB Charcandrick West signed as undrafted free agents, which is a stupidly ridiculous haul.

All of these players are contributing to the Chiefs now, significantly so, though Gaines and Thomas are battling injury.

It's worth summarizing for emphasis: With little cap space, $100 million in departing free agents, and no second round pick, John Dorsey made the Chiefs a better team in 2014.

Almost every team needs those splashy free agency signings to help put it over the top. But those quiet offseasons, where teams confidently stuck to the plan and didn't make any egregious errors out of impatience or impertinence, are just as important, and Dorsey aced it.

wtf?

[TEX]

Yes, great job by Dorsey.
Everything sounds familiar, but who is this electric play maker, DeAnthony Thomas, of which you speak?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

He starts the same threads on all the Chief boards it seems. Voyager 2.0

From time to time, I will post something I've posted here on AP.

I don't think that's much of anything.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Dorsey had a team to build around. Despite your sob story about the roster he inherited, he had a decent amount of talent and most were young. He built the team through what he inherited (15 decent enough starters / 8 pro bowlers), several pricey free agents, a bold trade for a QB, lots of small but cap significant FA moves (e.g. Fasano, Mauga/Abdullah second contracts, etc...), and yes the draft/scrap haul. Herm/Kuharich could barely keep their own let alone sign FAs, so they had to rely only on draft/scrap pile. Dorsey/Reid is obviously better than Herm/Kuharich. That doesn't make Herm bad at personnel.

I never supported tanking. I support playing hard with the roster you have. But yeah, Getting 2-3 extra wins because of middling fixes that hurt your long-term cap, hurt your ability to see what you have in young players, and hurt your draft haul... those are meaningless wins. Band-aiding a roster that isn't competitive when you don't have a clean cap is your typical Carl Peterson "I'm going to put butts in seats move." I hated the idea in 2007. I hated it in 2014.

It's apples and oranges. Dorsey inherited a roster that could have been rebuilt while retooling. Herm inherited a roster that had to be sledgehammered. Period. He could have squeezed more out of the lemon in 2006. I don't agree. The Chiefs should have blown the team up sooner (in 2006).




Pioli didn't hand Dorsey a mess roster wise. Vermeil handed Herm an utter Titanic shipwreck disaster. There is no comparison. Not even close.
-2006 Chiefs team was $20M over the cap. 2013 Chiefs were $20M under the cap
-2006 Chiefs had less than 5 positional players under 30 good enough to make an NFL roster. Literally. 2013 Chiefs had about 15 solid enough starters already and 8 who made the 2014 pro bowl
-2006 Chiefs were the oldest roster in football by a mile. 2013 Chiefs were about average
-2006 Chiefs had a ton of money in terrible dead money contracts. Dorsey had little trouble purging most of the roster
-Dorsey was on the same page as Reid. Herm had to fight to take control out of Peterson, who was mucking everything up
And yes, the QB makes a huge difference regardless of your opinion on Alex Smith. Herm could have done the same thing and brought in Chad Pennington. He didn't. And I'm glad he didn't.

You continually understate how good the 2006 team was and overstate how good the 08 team was, hence you saying dumbass shit like this

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The other thing you fail to mention is... how many of Vermeil's guys were still legit NFL players in 2008? DJ, Waters, Gonzalez, Tony Richardson, Surtain. FIVE. DJ was the only guy in that entire group who was under 30. So yeah, when you have to build a 53 man roster and you literally have 1 young guy and 4 old farts to work with and $0 to spend, how reasonable is it for any coach to turn that roster over in 3 years?

When in fact there were 20 dudes that played 3 years on the 06 roster and mother****ing 17 after Herm left. Link and Link

Like I said in that thread, teams can be rebuilt and turned over without becoming a joke of a ****ing franchise. So you're going to point to a $40M cap difference and say that Herm still ROOLZ. Dorsey is not perfect but he has done a pretty nice job here. Especially in the context of Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards and Scott Franchise Killer Pioli.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You continually understate how good the 2006 team was and overstate how good the 08 team was, hence you saying dumbass shit like this

I know how good the Vermeil team was. You seem to support squeezing more out of the lemon vs. realizing the team needed to be blown up. Many of even the biggest Herm haters back me on this. If anything, I think the team should have been blown up in 2006 instead of 2007.

And I'm not overstating how good the 2008 team was. Replace Thigpen with Sanchez (even if mediocre, it's a huge upgrade). Get Charles in the starting mix. Use $57M to add 3 or 4 not just good, but elite players. Bring in 1 or 2 more contributors through the draft. Hire a good coach to coach that team that's not Herm. That is an ascending team, which is what you want coming out of a rebuild.

When in fact there were 20 dudes that played 3 years on the 06 roster and mother****ing 17 after Herm left. Link and Link

While barely spending any money. I have no interest in keeping a bunch of overpriced 35 year olds around during a rebuild. We're not talking second contract players. We're talking 3rd or 4th contract guys.

Like I said in that thread, teams can be rebuilt and turned over without becoming a joke of a ****ing franchise. So you're going to point to a $40M cap difference and say that Herm still ROOLZ. Dorsey is not perfect but he has done a pretty nice job here. Especially in the context of Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards and Scott Franchise Killer Pioli.

If you honestly want to compare what Dorsey inherited to what Herm inherited with a straight face, I don't know what more I can tell you. Herm inherited a team that could have limped to short-term success, but was an utter long-term disaster. Period. Dorsey did not walk into a bad situation. The best option for Dorsey was to retool or very light rebuild. The best option for Herm was blow that roster up. I don't know how this could even be up for debate.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know how good the Vermeil team was. You seem to support squeezing more out of the lemon vs. realizing the team needed to be blown up. Many of even the biggest Herm haters back me on this. If anything, I think the team should have been blown up in 2006 instead of 2007.

And I'm not overstating how good the 2008 team was. Replace Thigpen with Sanchez (even if mediocre, it's a huge upgrade). Get Charles in the starting mix. Use $57M to add 3 or 4 not just good, but elite players. Bring in 1 or 2 more contributors through the draft. Hire a good coach to coach that team that's not Herm. That is an ascending team, which is what you want coming out of a rebuild.



While barely spending any money. I have no interest in keeping a bunch of overpriced 35 year olds around during a rebuild. We're not talking second contract players. We're talking 3rd or 4th contract guys.



If you honestly want to compare what Dorsey inherited to what Herm inherited with a straight face, I don't know what more I can tell you. Herm inherited a team that could have limped to short-term success, but was an utter long-term disaster. Period. Dorsey did not walk into a bad situation. The best option for Dorsey was to retool or very light rebuild. The best option for Herm was blow that roster up. I don't know how this could even be up for debate.

You refuse to see the holes in your argument and believe that there is no other way to build a team than blow it up. By all means, praise Herm. Thank God we were so blessed to have such a pile of shit coach that has failed at everything he has ever done ever, except for cap space. Thank God we went from a perennially competitive team to a ****ing joke that was not competitive against anyone but the Faid. Thank God we set records for losses. Thank God for blackouts. Thank God for Herm.

You can think what you want, but Dorsey took a ****ing tire fire that Pioli left him, dumped most of the dead weight and made the team competitive. In one offseason. And when the cap got hairy, he didn't blow shit up, set franchise loss records and get the vaunted high draft picks (that good teams never have) that you crave so much, and embarrass the hell out of the entire city. No, he did what good personnel men do and fielded a team. He found depth. For cheap. No, he hasn't found the next Jamaal Charles (unless West really steps up), but he also didn't field a team with 40 guys that don't belong on a roster.

Dorsey is what King Carl, Squirmin Herman, Pioli, and even Reid in Philly could never be. A decent personnel man. I don't even think he's that good, but he's competent. That is a welcome sign in my books.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

From time to time, I will post something I've posted here on AP.

I don't think that's much of anything.

You are such a whore.