How many acres would a person need to go feral?

[Rain Man]

I was thinking the other day about cattle, and what a pasture must look like to them. When you're a rancher and you open the gate for your cattle, they're essentially walking into a field of pizza, right? Their food is just lying there on the ground for them to take, and it's food that they really like. I guess more accurately, they're walking into a field that's mixed with pizza and broccoli and the occasional cookie, but that's fine.

So that got me thinking about how cool it would be as a human to experience this, and I suddenly realized - wow! That's how it was for humans for 99 percent of our history. We got our food by walking around and finding it. Sometimes it was on a bush or in a root and sometimes we had to kill it, but the truth is that for most of our history, the world was a big buffet and we wandered through it with a fork, a spear, and an atlatl.

So that got me thinking again. Could a person do that now? We talk about living "off the grid", but that's kind of a fiction. People living off the grid are still importing goods from civilization. They're buying canned goods and shotgun shells and Netflix videos. They're using agricultural techniques that were developed in Mesopotamia and optimized in Kansas.

So instead of that corrupt modern version of "living off the grid", let's go with a purist approach. You've got XX acres of land, and after a polite ramp up period to get it ready, you're going to be a hunter/gatherer. No growing crops allowed. You're going to wander the woods and valleys and plains, and you're going to hunt creatures and pick berries from wild bushes, and drink from streams. You'll only make clothing and tools and cups and netflix videos using local sources and materials. Nothing enters or leaves your property, ever.

How many acres of land would a person need to do this? I'm considering it as my next career.

[displacedinMN]

Many families used to live and survive off 40 acres.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by excessive

Suppose you were to find a crop worthy plant or meat suitable critter already growing or living on said acreage. Would you be able to propagate native flora and raise native fauna?

I'm thinking a Robinson Crusoe scenario. Say you want to cage a few squirrels or bunnies, or plant a few apple trees? What if you came across, let's say, a medicinal plant (wink, wink, nod, nod), would it be okay to start a pharmacological grow? Asking for a friend.

Per my self-imposed rule, you couldn't domesticate anything, plant or animal. So the best you could do is throw seeds on the ground near the plant that you just ate. I'm talking true hunter-gatherer.

[prhom]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Per my self-imposed rule, you couldn't domesticate anything, plant or animal. So the best you could do is throw seeds on the ground near the plant that you just ate. I'm talking true hunter-gatherer.

The closest example I could think of that is actually documented is Alexander Selkirk who was the inspiration for Robinson Crusoe. He actually lived on an island in the pacific for over 4 years. Pretty impressive and a great story if your into that sort of thing. However, previous ships had left goats behind so he captured and eventually tamed a few.

Interestingly, I think it would be far easier and you’d be more successful in a place where fish were plentiful. Probably one of many reaasons people have always lived near water. It’s really hard catching animals on land but you spend far fewer calories harvesting sea life.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by prhom

The closest example I could think of that is actually documented is Alexander Selkirk who was the inspiration for Robinson Crusoe. He actually lived on an island in the pacific for over 4 years. Pretty impressive and a great story if your into that sort of thing. However, previous ships had left goats behind so he captured and eventually tamed a few.

Interestingly, I think it would be far easier and you’d be more successful in a place where fish were plentiful. Probably one of many reaasons people have always lived near water. It’s really hard catching animals on land but you spend far fewer calories harvesting sea life.

I read an article a while back that postulated that large coastal clams fueled much of the early expansion of hominids north along the African coast. Apparently they were calorie-rich and plentiful, and it's easy to hunt clams.

[tooge]

Do we get to drag bitches to our parcel of land to breed with? You know, like the cavemen did?
I'd want no less than 80 acres if I was living here in the midwest. That would do it from a lumber standpoint, food standpoint, etc.

[tooge]

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Interesting fact: the term "caveman" is actually a misnomer. They didn't live in caves. Well, not for extended periods of time. They were actually migrant and followed the seasons and the food. So, you may need quite a long stretch from North to South. The no planting/farming is quite a restriction. So you'd have to leave to go follow herd of buffalo/cattle etc. I imagine.

40,000 acres? I'm an "ask for your desired outcome" type person.

This is actually not a fact. Plenty of clans of early hominids lived in and around caves. They may have migrated from cave to cave, but they clearly lived in them long term, painted pictures, and lived and ate there. Some caves have fire pit layers indicating that people lived there for hundreds of years.

[CrazyPhuD]

Is it more or less than the number of acres it takes to make someone go furry?

[Baby Lee]

I guess I define feral in a manner incompatible with restrictions on conduct.
If I'm going to go out and fend for myself, I'm going to make the optimum use of everything in my domain.
Who's gonna stop me from farming?
Who's gonna stop me from domesticating wildlife? There certainly isn't anyone there to save my ass if I try to domesticate something that doesn't have my interests at heart.

Rules connote a connection to some civilization out there monitoring and enforcing them.
That's not feral.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by displacedinMN

Many families used to live and survive off 40 acres.

Wimps.

The Irish used to feed a family on less than 5 acres.

Set aside enough for one dairy cow and grow potatoes on the rest.

[tmax63]

Most of this doesn't fit Rainman's rules. If you was strictly hunting/gathering then you would need a long migration route to move with the seasons. Realistically speaking you would either be walking north or south depending in the season. Moving 10-15 miles a day with the stop and eat until bust when you stumble onto a good food source succh as a ripe berry patch or fresh killed meat. You would have to be almost always on the move.

[stumppy]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I read an article a while back that postulated that large coastal clams fueled much of the early expansion of hominids north along the African coast. Apparently they were calorie-rich and plentiful, and it's easy to hunt clams.

That's right. Their little clam legs can only run so fast.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by tmax63

Most of this doesn't fit Rainman's rules. If you was strictly hunting/gathering then you would need a long migration route to move with the seasons. Realistically speaking you would either be walking north or south depending in the season. Moving 10-15 miles a day with the stop and eat until bust when you stumble onto a good food source succh as a ripe berry patch or fresh killed meat. You would have to be almost always on the move.

Dependent upon where you are maybe. Here in Michigan, you could sustain year-around off of what you find in the wild and really no migration is required. Plenty of wild plants, berries, roots, and fungi in addition to the wildlife. So much of it people don't see as edible either. Cattail, burdock, chicken of the woods fungus, chaga, etc. Tons of plants in the summer... ramps, garlic, asparagus, fire weed, milk weed, fiddlehead ferns, quarters, dandelion, chickory, etc. You have a plethora of nuts to store... Beach nuts, black walnuts, butternuts, acorns, etc... You can eat the inner bark of birch trees, poplars, willows, cedars and all conifers (except yew). Tap maples and sycamore for sap to make syrup. Sure, winter is a bitch, but alot of the roots, tree fungi, lichens, and so forth are still available to you plus you hopefully would make a nut store. Obviously you have plenty of sources of meat to try to for. The Natives didn't travel thousands of miles chasing herds so you wouldn't have to either.

[prhom]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I read an article a while back that postulated that large coastal clams fueled much of the early expansion of hominids north along the African coast. Apparently they were calorie-rich and plentiful, and it's easy to hunt clams.

It makes sense, really. You would be most successful if you had a reliable, stationary, nutritious food source. Those clams are going to be there for you almost anytime you need them. If you are spending all of your time running around hunting big, fast, potentially dangerous animals your chance for injury and failure rate is going to be higher. You would have a shorter life expectancy and probably less time available for finding females (clam hunting of a different sort!) and supporting offspring.

[Hydrae]

Originally Posted by stumppy

[/B]That's right. Their little clam legs can only run so fast.

How ironic for this to be posted by "stumppy"!